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Bankers are Behind the Wars

George Washington's picture




 
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Former managing director of Goldman Sachs – and head of the international analytics group at Bear Stearns in London (Nomi Prins) -  notes:

Throughout the century that I examined, which began with the Panic of 1907 … what I found by accessing the archives of each president is that through many events and periods, particular bankers were in constant communication [with the White House] — not just about financial and economic policy, and by extension trade policy, but also about aspects of World War I, or World War II, or the Cold War, in terms of the expansion that America was undergoing as a superpower in the world, politically, buoyed by the financial expansion of the banking community.

 

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In the beginning of World War I, Woodrow Wilson had adopted initially a policy of neutrality. But the Morgan Bank, which was the most powerful bank at the time, and which wound up funding over 75 percent of the financing for the allied forces during World War I … pushed Wilson out of neutrality sooner than he might have done, because of their desire to be involved on one side of the war.

 

Now, on the other side of that war, for example, was the National City Bank, which, though they worked with Morgan in financing the French and the British, they also didn’t have a problem working with financing some things on the German side, as did Chase

 

When Eisenhower became president … the U.S. was undergoing this expansion by providing, under his doctrine, military aid and support to countries [under] the so-called threat of being taken over by communism … What bankers did was they opened up hubs, in areas such as Cuba, in areas such as Beirut and Lebanon, where the U.S. also wanted to gain a stronghold in their Cold War fight against the Soviet Union. And so the juxtaposition of finance and foreign policy were very much aligned.

 

So in the ‘70s, it became less aligned, because though America was pursuing foreign policy initiatives in terms of expansion, the bankers found oil, and they made an extreme effort to activate relationships in the Middle East, that then the U.S. government followed. For example, in Saudi Arabia and so forth, they get access to oil money, and then recycle it into Latin American debt and other forms of lending throughout the globe. So that situation led the U.S. government.

Indeed, JP Morgan also purchased control over America’s leading 25 newspapers in order to propagandize US public opinion in favor of US entry into World War 1.

And many big banks did, in fact, fund the Nazis.

The BBC reported in 1998:

Barclays Bank has agreed to pay $3.6m to Jews whose assets were seized from French branches of the British-based bank during World War II.

 

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Chase Manhattan Bank, which has acknowledged seizing about 100 accounts held by Jews in its Paris branch during World War II ….”Recently unclassified reports from the US Treasury about the activities of Chase in Paris in the 1940s indicate that the local branch worked “in close collaboration with the German authorities” in freezing Jewish assets.

The New York Daily News noted the same year:

The relationship between Chase and the Nazis apparently was so cozy that Carlos Niedermann, the Chase branch chief in Paris, wrote his supervisor in Manhattan that the bank enjoyed “very special esteem” with top German officials and “a rapid expansion of deposits,” according to Newsweek.

 

Niedermann’s letter was written in May 1942 five months after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and the U.S. also went to war with Germany.

The BBC reported in 1999:

A French government commission, investigating the seizure of Jewish bank accounts during the Second World War, says five American banks Chase Manhattan, J.P Morgan, Guaranty Trust Co. of New York, Bank of the City of New York and American Express had taken part.

 

It says their Paris branches handed over to the Nazi occupiers about one-hundred such accounts.

One of Britain’s main newspapers – the Guardian – reported in 2004:

George Bush’s grandfather [and George H.W. Bush's father], the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

 

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

 

His business dealings … continued until his company’s assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act

 

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The documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade. The Guardian has seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen’s US interests and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war.

 

***

 

Bush was a founding member of the bank [UBC] … The bank was set up by Harriman and Bush’s father-in-law to provide a US bank for the Thyssens, Germany’s most powerful industrial family.

 

***

 

By the late 1930s, Brown Brothers Harriman, which claimed to be the world’s largest private investment bank, and UBC had bought and shipped millions of dollars of gold, fuel, steel, coal and US treasury bonds to Germany, both feeding and financing Hitler’s build-up to war.

 

Between 1931 and 1933 UBC bought more than $8m worth of gold, of which $3m was shipped abroad. According to documents seen by the Guardian, after UBC was set up it transferred $2m to BBH accounts and between 1924 and 1940 the assets of UBC hovered around $3m, dropping to $1m only on a few occasions.

 

***

 

UBC was caught red-handed operating a American shell company for the Thyssen family eight months after America had entered the war and that this was the bank that had partly financed Hitler’s rise to power.

Indeed, banks often finance both sides of wars:

 

(The San Francisco Chronicle also documents that leading financiers Rockefeller, Carnegie and Harriman also funded Nazi eugenics programs … but that’s a story for another day.)

After all, wars are the fastest way for banks to create more debt ... and therefore to make more profit.  No wonder they love war.

The Federal Reserve and other central banks also help to start wars by financing them.  Thomas Jefferson and the father of free market capitalism, Adam Smith, both noted that the financing wars by banks led to more – and longer – wars.

And America apparently considers economic rivalry to be a basis for war, and is using the military to contain China’s growing economic influence.

Multi-billionaire investor Hugo Salinas Price says:

What happened to [Libya's] Mr. Gaddafi, many speculate the real reason he was ousted was that he was planning an all-African currency for conducting trade. The same thing happened to him that happened to Saddam because the US doesn’t want any solid competing currency out there vs the dollar. You know Gaddafi was talking about a gold dinar.

Senior CNBC editor John Carney noted:

Is this the first time a revolutionary group has created a central bank while it is still in the midst of fighting the entrenched political power? It certainly seems to indicate how extraordinarily powerful central bankers have become in our era.

 

Robert Wenzel of Economic Policy Journal thinks the central banking initiative reveals that foreign powers may have a strong influence over the rebels.

 

This suggests we have a bit more than a ragtag bunch of rebels running around and that there are some pretty sophisticated influences. “I have never before heard of a central bank being created in just a matter of weeks out of a popular uprising,” Wenzel writes.

Indeed, many claim that recent wars have really been about bringing all countries into the fold of Western central banking, and that the wars against Middle Eastern countries are really about forcing them into the dollar and private central banking.

The most decorated American military man in history said that war is a racket, and noted:

Let us not forget the bankers who financed the great war. If anyone had the cream of the profits it was the bankers.

The big banks have also been laundering money for terrorists. The big bank employee who blew the whistle on the banks’ money laundering for terrorists and drug cartels says that the giant bank is still aiding terrorists, saying:

The public needs to know that money is still being funneled through HSBC to directly buy guns and bullets to kill our soldiers …. Banks financing … terrorists affects every single American.

He also said:

It is disgusting that our banks are STILL financing terror on 9/11 2013.

And see this.

According to the BBC and other sources, Prescott Bush, JP Morgan and other leading financiers also funded a coup against President Franklin Roosevelt in an attempt – basically – to implement fascism in the U.S. See this, this, this and this.

Kevin Zeese writes:

Americans are recognizing the link between the military-industrial complex and the Wall Street oligarchs—a connection that goes back to the beginning of the modern U.S. empire. Banks have always profited from war because the debt created by banks results in ongoing war profit for big finance; and because wars have been used to open countries to U.S. corporate and banking interests. Secretary of State, William Jennings Bryan wrote: “the large banking interests were deeply interested in the world war because of the wide opportunities for large profits.”

 

Many historians now recognize that a hidden history for U.S. entry into World War I was to protect U.S. investors. U.S. commercial interests had invested heavily in European allies before the war: “By 1915, American neutrality was being criticized as bankers and merchants began to loan money and offer credits to the warring parties, although the Central Powers received far less. Between 1915 and April 1917, the Allies received 85 times the amount loaned to Germany.” The total dollars loaned to all Allied borrowers during this period was $2,581,300,000. The bankers saw that if Germany won, their loans to European allies would not be repaid. The leading U.S. banker of the era, J.P. Morgan and his associates did everything they could to push the United States into the war on the side of England and France. Morgan said: “We agreed that we should do all that was lawfully in our power to help the Allies win the war as soon as possible.” President Woodrow Wilson, who campaigned saying he would keep the United States out of war, seems to have entered the war to protect U.S. banks’ investments in Europe.

 

The most decorated Marine in history, Smedley Butler, described fighting for U.S. banks in many of the wars he fought in. He said: “I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

 

In Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, John Perkins describes how World Bank and IMF loans are used to generate profits for U.S. business and saddle countries with huge debts that allow the United States to control them. It is not surprising that former civilian military leaders like Robert McNamara and Paul Wolfowitz went on to head the World Bank. These nations’ debt to international banks ensures they are controlled by the United States, which pressures them into joining the “coalition of the willing” that helped invade Iraq or allowing U.S. military bases on their land. If countries refuse to “honor” their debts, the CIA or Department of Defense enforces U.S. political will through coups or military action.

 

***

 

More and more people are indeed seeing the connection between corporate banksterism and militarism ….

Indeed, all wars are bankers’ wars.

 

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Sat, 04/19/2014 - 19:55 | 4676329 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Bush Crime Family. In the movies "awol" would have been taken out on to the lake in a canoe.

I am mailing out nailguns as fast as I can.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 19:30 | 4676280 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

Kevin Zeese isn't aware that JP Moragan died in 1913.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 18:14 | 4676146 no more banksters
no more banksters's picture

December 23, 2013: banksters celebrate 100 years of absolute sovereignty!

http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2013/12/december-23-2013-banksters-ce...

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 18:33 | 4676176 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

Their early 20th century sovereignty became our bondage and the growth of unmitigated worldwide destruction.

http://www.greatwar.nl/frames/default-merchants.html

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 18:01 | 4676121 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

Sure can't disagree that all wars are bankers = economic wars in one form or another.

 

Cheapshot  though because no country in the whole world can support itself under the current economic mechanism without manipulation of figures to pretend it all adds up ... it don't!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 00:49 | 4676672 litemine
litemine's picture

Great Uncle.....................

It's just the cream off the top goes to the Non Productive Bankers.................

When or why was it proper to have the person counting the money's cut to be greater that the workers?

If the Bankers were taken out of the Equation the numbers would balance. Now the speed at which the Financial system will fail is faster due to the Bogus injection of debt in the System.

 

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 17:40 | 4676025 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I have not read Nomi Prins' book, but I have read a lot of articles and seen interviews with her about it. It is an excellent source to add to the picture. However, apart from a few details, I had already assimilated that overview. I was also familiar with all the poignant quotes that were repeated in some comments above.

The deeper problems go far beyond merely this quote, that blindman cited:

“The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.” The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.

Generally speaking, the few people who understand that the public "money" supply is being made out of nothing as debts are those who are benefiting from that system, while "the great body of people," ARE "mentally incapable of comprehending" because they have been conditioned to not want to comprehend. In my view, in order to better understand this foundation of enforced frauds, one has to go BEYOND FALSE FUNDAMENTAL DICHOTOMIES, which also means that one should STOP PROPOSING "SOLUTIONS" BASED ON IMPOSSIBLE IDEALS, which depend upon still believing in those false fundamental dichotomies.

From a practical political point of view, there probably are NO good solutions. The established systems will continue to be based on lies, backed by violence, which automatically become more insane, until their madness destroys them, and takes almost everybody else down with them. However, theoretically, we should be attempting to use UNITARY MECHANISMS, rather than still using false fundamental dichotomies, to understand these problems, and moreover, to follow those same UNITARY MECHANISMS when proposing realistic solutions to those real problems.

Beyond the problem that those who benefit from these kinds of legalized frauds are in positive feedback loops of becoming more wealthy, and so, more powerful, and thus, more able to continue to dominate the political processes, there is the outstanding difficulty that almost everyone who does understand the problems of private banks making the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts continue to oppose that by being reactionary revolutionaries, who propose "solutions" based on impossible ideals, which always backfire in the real world.

Our REAL problems are already trillions of times worse, and headed towards becoming quadrillions of times worse, because of the growing Grand Canyon Paradoxes between progress in various sciences, enabling better technologies, while almost none of that kind of thinking has any way to manifest within the social and political worlds, which are still almost totally dominated by old-fashioned religions and ideologies. Therefore, the real world is now globalized electronic frauds, backed by the threat of the force of weapons of mass destruction, but virtually none of that kind of scientific progress, which was based upon paradigm shifts to understand the UNITARY MECHANISMS which made those kinds of technology possible, are being developed within the realms of political problems.

We should be using the concepts of general energy systems to understand human civilization. However, in order to do that, we have to recognize the degree to which the philosophy of science itself has also been a victim of profoundly fraudulent distortions and inversions of its basic world view. People who fail to do that can still provide good analysis, based upon relative dichotomies, to reveal how the banksters have operated. However, they can NOT provide better solutions, because, when they turn to proposing solutions, they fall back to using false fundamental dichotomies, and their related impossible ideals, as the basis for their proposed "solutions."

That is why, over and over and over again, one will see good analysis, followed by bullshit "solutions." In my opinion, pretty well every article and comment on Zero Hedge follows that pattern, because that is almost everywhere. While "more and more people are seeing the connection between corporate banksterism and militarism," ... and "that all wars were bankers' wars" Virtually everyone who does that still continues to be reactionary revolutionaries, who shift gears from their relatively good analysis, based on useful relative dichotomies, to then propose bullshit "solutions" based upon impossible ideals, that depend upon still believing in false fundamental dichotomies.

SINCE THE REAL WORLD IS NOW ELECTRONIC FRAUDS, BACKED BY ATOMIC BOMBS, REAL SOLUTIONS CAN NOT BE BASED ON GOING BACKWARDS TO ANY OLD-FASHIONED WAYS OF STILL PERCEIVING WHAT THE WORLD SHOULD BE. REALISTIC SOLUTIONS OUGHT TO BE BASED UPON INTELLECTUAL SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTIONS, WHICH CORRECT THE PROFOUND ERRORS IN THE CURRENTLY ESTABLISHED PHILOSOPHY OF SCIENCE, SO THAT GENERAL ENERGY SYSTEMS CONCEPTS CAN BE APPLIED TO HUMAN CIVILIZATION.

It is not good enough to understand that governments are the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gang of criminals, unless one approaches understanding that using UNITARY MECHANISMS, which continue to be used when one proposes possible solutions to those problems. So far, the majority of people continue to be conditioned to not want to understand what it means that private banks are making the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts. Hence, there is still little practical political point that follows from demonstrating that. But nevertheless, I recommend that we should move beyond the bogus "solutions" proposed by the reactionary revolutionaries, who tend to do some good historical analysis, but then collapse back to the same old impossible ideals when they turn to proposing their "solutions."

Right now, the Grand Canyon Paradoxes of advancing science and technology, employed inside of social pyramid systems based on lies, backed by violence, keeps on getting worse, faster, at an exponential rate, due to the degree of progress in science, while politics continues being almost totally buried under the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories, while their controlled opposition also continues to promote the same old bullshit when proposing their bogus, impossible "solutions."

At the present time, it is not at all clear how human beings are going to survive those dilemmas of mostly still stupid monkeys with atomic bombs, running globalized electronic frauds. Theoretically, we should, and must to survive, become a more scientific society, in which the philosophy of science is the most important concern for a society based upon technology. It is estimated that human civilizations today are using tens of thousands of times more energy from inanimate energy sources, than all of the human and animal energy that was ever available before in human history, before the industrial revolution. Furthermore, there are weapons of mass destruction, and mass surveillance, which are literally trillions of times BIGGER than anything else that ever existed before in known human history. THAT is the real context in which "all wars are bankers' wars."

However, so far, I have never yet read anything anywhere by anyone that goes beyond presenting a relatively good analysis of that problem, which does not then collapse back to bullshit "solutions" based on impossible ideals, because they switch gears from relatively useful dichotomies to understand the history, to then promote false fundamental dichotomy based impossible ideals as the basis for their "solutions." While there is NO DOUBT that "Bankers are Behind Wars," so far that is not being understood well enough, and widely enough, to then use unitary mechanisms when proposing realistic solutions for the problems that has caused. As long as the controlled opposition of reactionary revolutionaries continues to promote the same old-fashioned religions and ideologies as the basis for resolving those problems, then those problems are not going to get resolved any better!

While "Bankers are Behind Wars," THEY ARE ALSO CONTROLLING THEIR OPPOSITION. The banksters, as the biggest bullies, are still dominating the bullshit ways that most of the opposition to them thinks. Metaphorically speaking, the Wolves have taught the Sheep to bleat their moralities, while the Black Sheep that say they oppose the Wolves continue to bleat the same moralities.  Co-opted religions and ideologies, that were manifestations of controlled opposition, dominate the groups that say that they are against the banksters.

As long as the people who understand, but are against how the enforced financial frauds work, still continue proposing "solutions" based on impossible ideals, that depend upon false fundamental dichotomies, then those "solutions" will continue to actually make the opposite happen in the real world. Nothing less than a profound intellectual scientific revolution is enough to sufficiently better understand how and why "Bankers are Behind Wars."

THERE ARE NO "REFORMS" WITHIN THE CURRENT SYSTEMS WHICH ARE WORKABLE. THE ONLY SUFFICIENT SOLUTIONS ARE REVOLUTIONS, HOWEVER, THOSE REVOLUTIONS SHOULD BEGIN WITH SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTIONS IN THE WAYS WE THINK!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 08:51 | 4676898 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

The solution is simply pure laissez faire capitalism coupled with gold and silver backed, and convertible, money, no protective tariffs, no central bank, private education without tax penalties, no federal "internal improvements", no presidential executive orders or capacity to initiate wars, fully informed 12 person juries, state nullification, no federal police powers and sell ALL federal land that fails to qualify as an original Constitutionally permitted type.  There may be others.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 08:46 | 4676891 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Radical - Zero Hedge is a site that tells you the solution: Hedge against robbery. What else can one do? Keep the eye simple. There are cycles that make since to invest in wealth pursuits and cycles that do not and pushing to attempt to break gravity may be like stabbing yourself over and over. Best to understand there is a season for everything under heaven.

If your middle class your the target of taxation and the forms they manifest is predation. Many people in this class are house poor. A large home is expensive. An option is to downsize. Or move to the next town over where it is cheaper.

Upper middle class families can learn some tax law in how to invest in real estate for example to avoid being in higher income tax brackets.

Individuals can buy local as much as possible. Regional retailers are now competitive on price in many good but they are better quality.

To have a scientific revolution better information sharing systems would be a first step.

Such a system would also be a news network because such a venture to succeed would need to be able to raise interest with investors and have that scientific content be cross-pollinated with thinkers that conduct thought experiments even if not scientists.

That is something I am working on and it is worth it to lay these tracks down now for later.

Looking at cycles of evolution, robbers that become big as a group attack other big groups when the low hanging fruit has been plucked and stowed away. Wealth stops growing as we see today. War is next in the cycle. After "solutions" regarding political systems can be made when the robbers power has diminished.

I intend to get out of the way, be hedged and then go out and have some fun. Living in fear all the time is not living!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 08:49 | 4676873 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

dupe

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 04:58 | 4676786 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Please have a look at this?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A
And this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk6z1vP4Eo8
Both would function in a decentralised system.

Many of the development based on scientific research is indeed against the interest of the human race. Which is logical, as it is part of a system that is moving more and more towards hostillity towards our species, and the natural biotope that supports us.
Of course a revolution is needed, if the human race is to evolve (or even survive).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 01:11 | 4676692 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

This guy just started his two hour show. If you are up now, check this out. He is funny.:

http://republicbroadcasting.org/listen-live/

 

 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 00:11 | 4676644 15horses1donkey
15horses1donkey's picture

my thought: who gives a shit about what you think. it takes too long to read. Can you condense it down to a paragraph or two? Or at least, make the first paragraph or two you claims, and the remaining 10 paragraphs your evidence?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 05:09 | 4676791 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

"who gives a shit about what you think" ... Well, 15horses1donkey, I would guess that maybe one individual in a million?

I write because it helps me think. Nobody is forced to read it, yet there is a very, very, very small group that seems to think it was worthwhile, and I sometimes get interesting feedback, which may help me think a little better than before.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 17:02 | 4677850 resurger
resurger's picture

Was a good read RM.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:04 | 4679935 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Very well stated.  And you too, Joker.  Thanks guys.  Good stuff.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 05:19 | 4676797 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

sheesh, i never knew my ex had a ZH account ; ) I always figured two or three horses and no donkey was more than enough!

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 18:48 | 4676201 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

RM,  the conundrum seems to be that we can't think because our bankster funded/driven education system for generations was designed to box our brains in. Then the mass media goes to work on us. Finally, anyone who "thinks outside the box" is channelled into a pen of one degree or another of BLACK sheep and thereafter controlled by their pen-pals.

I'm very curious about "unitary" mechanisms as , as you know, I see THE problem as one over-arching problem, where the solution to it will only be derived from combining all the sciences together to work it out. All the sciences, and all of global society needs to work together - or die together. As long as we continue to fight with each other over bullshit, the banksters win every time. It's pretty obvious though, that they have lost control now and the monster is taking us all down with them. Will the collapse of nation-states result in savage tribalism or something else?

(makes my skull sweat but exercise is good! thx RM)

 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 01:22 | 4676704 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

"As long as we continue to fight with each other over bullshit, the banksters win every time."

Say, Hegelian Dialectic, black is white, Orwell's doublespeak. Some are darn good at it spewing it out. The old cesarean divide and conquer methodology is at best, old.

Family and community.

The solution is in the problem.

Turn out the lights so there is no technology, no nothing power wise for most, and it comes to the immediate solution. God becomes the stomach. The art of survival becomes a new art form and eventually, the solution presents itself.

Merry Easter Sprint of Springs Hare Raising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZeRwuN68VQ

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 22:43 | 4676520 The Joker
The Joker's picture

Nevermind.....

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 05:13 | 4676724 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

No kidding The Joker. we all just got schooled. See? I am not afraid to question but when you're given a really fuckin good answer, you are a fool to keep asking the same question.

Are we in an extinction event? No doubt. The question now is will it be an event on par with The Great Dying (potentially), and is it preventable?

{edit: ok I should say virtually no doubt, but if if someone has a reasonable doubt, they bloody well have to make themselves known and hold it up to proper scrutiny, not just throw half-baked shit around the blogospere that most of us won't even understand. If you have a doubt about gravity or AGW, then you better be prepared to fight your way onto the world stage to deliver the goods}

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 13:26 | 4677326 The Joker
The Joker's picture

In science, not the sophistry that is AGW, you ask the question based on observation, develop a null hypothesis and test it.  There has been absolutely zero observations that the greenhouse effect exists, no empirical evidence in support of it.  I challenge you to find one piece of peer-reviewed literature that demonstrates empirically the GHE.  You can't do it because it doesn't exist and because it is physically and mathematically impossible.  The question has been asked and failed to live up to the tests, theoretically, empirically, and mathematically. 

If you boil a pot of water, the steam can't make the water hotter or the pot hotter or the unit hotter.  The temperature gradient goes from subsurface of the Earth (the unit or source) to atmosphere (the steam), in that order, and heat can't move downwards against the gradient, from a cooler area to a warmer area, without energy input.  It breaks the laws of thermodynamics. 

The "atmospheric GHE" is just the phrase we use to denote the difference between the effective blackbody radiation termperature and the kinetic air temperature near the surface; it does not actually denote any physical heating mechanism or temperature amplification or heat-trapping function, and it is actually and entirely benign comparison of physically distinct metrics, i.e., effective radiation temperature vs. spatially-specific kinetic temperature.  The concept has no relationship to an actual physical greenhouse, as the atmosphere does not have a glass ceiling, nor is it all that physically meaningful a priori due to the indistinct comparison between principally distinct metrics.  It is a travesty that the scientific institution would have ever accepted through review and promoted the pretense that the atmosphere provides twice as much heat as the sun, just because a bunch of idealogues agreed for it to be so.  If this brand of ideological speciousness is allowed to continue to be passed off as science, then without a doubt this has marked the end of the evolutionary development of the human mind and what lies ahead for humanity is a slow decline back into a permanent dark age of unconsciousness.  Alarmism based on the atmospheric greenhouse effect really is just that depraved, and is one the absolute worst psychological conditions that the human mind has ever developed.  The atmospheric greenhouse effect is one of the worst analogies that has ever been created, and given the degree of alarm and expenditure of monies and an entire field of specious alarmist science that has been justified on its pretext, one of the most damaging to human fecundity.

The atmosphere is not capable of backradiation or heat trapping and in fact cools by convection.  It's basic physics and chemistry.  The reason a greenhouse or a car gets hot is because it is somewhat isolated from the convection of the atmosphere.  The atmosphere in itself is not isolated from convection, and in fact provides it, and to say the opposite is just down right silly.

If you really do mean business, you can show me the formula or at the very least show me the literature with the evidence.  If not, well, it is a mean business, isn't it?

Modern physics is patently not based on the simple type of linear averaging mathematics as seen in climate science, it is based on calculus.  Calculus allows us to charactorize dynamic physical systems in detail.  This simple type of linear algebraic manipulation we see underlying models and energy budgets in climate science, of what should be real-time dynamic quantities, cannot possibly provide a valid scientific basis for insight into a dynamic non-linear system.  Such an attempt is invalid, and it should have been obvious when this scheme concluded that sunshine is freezing at -18C, and that the atmosphere provided, with no actual chemical or nuclear source of radiant energy, twice as much heating power as the sun itself.  The intrinsically defective concept of backradiation heating was thus created to cover this mathematical blunder up.  Introduction of backradiation into the equation fails to match the real world because radiation cannot actually increase its own Wien-peak frequency and its own spectral temperature signature.  Radiation cannot heat up its own source.  The Laws of Thermodynamics are real and universal.  Gravity obeys them, AGW doesn't.  That's the difference and why it is ridiculous to compare Gravity with AGW.

Backradiation is not a really good fucking answer, it's an invalid answer.  So, I'll keep asking the same question, where is the evidence for the GHE?  The AGW hypothesis is considered falsified, under physics, because it is based on faulty assumptions, uses faulty math, and has faulty conclusions that don't match the real world observations.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 14:50 | 4677623 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

The Joker (cc GW), thanks for the well written reply. As I said over there, "we're just musicians" meaning I do not claim to have the scientific training to rebut what you say. At the same time, I'm not stupid enough to not believe, as Arlo Guthrie said in 'Alice's Restaurant' "that there was a third possibility we never counted upon and we were both immediately arrested!". Is it possible you are totally correct? Maybe, but again I don't have the skills to argue this with you nor am I prepared to drop what I'm doing and invest my time and money to acquire the skills. Perhaps that offends you.

Therefore I am one of billions who depend on people with the skills to have a debate with you and I rely on the media to inform me. I've been interested in this for 25 years to varying degrees at various times, but here and now with AR5 almost complete, seeing what is going on with Arctic ice/glaciers, and when the human population has essentially doubled and keeps rising comprised of 1st world consumers, a 2nd world still relying on old leaky energy intensive junk and 3rd world asset strippers, forgive me for being very worried. Wish none of this were so and maybe you're right, it isn't.

Therefore I would ask you to please show where it is you've had this position of yours debated with the people who have the skills and the average Joe can identify. Have you written any papers, did you comment on AR5, were you at any of the press conferences? It would help immensely if you could or would do these things as it appears we could be approaching a point of no return vis-a-vis tipping points. Flinging piles of links around in the blogosphere doesn't cut it because ZH is not where billions of people turn to for information about AGW. We depend on our science academies, for better or for worse, and they are at the opposite end of the spectrum. Let me ask you, are you open to accepting that perhaps YOU are completely wrong, and that by the time you figure that out life on Earth will be very suddenly, a blink of an eye in geological time, desperately trying to adapt to a world that's locked into a hothouse Earth that will possibly result in the 6th mass extinction? I got a lot out of Peter Ward's book 'Under A Green Sky' where the generally accepted principle that all extinction events were caused by asteroids was finally disproved by him about ten years ago. You're thinking "see I told ya" and yes, BUT, the evidence pointed to a GHE that resulted in "Canfield Oceans" lasting (IIRC) millions of years (ie:not just centuries or millennia)

We are supposed to have the brains to plan ahead. We necessarily plan ahead as a means of increased survival and we use language to communicate to assist with the planning function. I gained a new understanding of free speech from someone I met at OWS.org two years ago, a greater meaning of free speech if you like so I would appreciate if you could explain how your thesis increases the survival of humankind and indeed all our fellow life forms.

 

"Officially implemented, as a federal law recognized by all states, citizens would only have to gather a group with a common understanding based in facts, of information reasonably shown as vital, also showing how the presentation/perspective of such is currently lacking from the public information with significant distribution, satisfying the requisites public must have to involve the law in the creation of an understanding of the vital information from which can come; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Citizens with issues developed in this way, and a relatively small petition qualifying, would have a right to see compulsive state and federal control over network broadcasting licensure in order to compel adequate production funding and national broadcasting during prime time television to effect the education of the public on given subjects."

 

link? (other topics there include ARTICLE V, Soldier's Inquiry, Cognitive Infiltration...)

ya as Queen said, "it's HOT. It's MEAN!" And sure, I can be an asshole too, especially when I "get about as oiled as a diesel train... cause Saturday Nights alright for fighting" ; )

thx again.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 16:03 | 4677740 The Joker
The Joker's picture

If you placed yourself out into the woods, naked and with no tools, what would you do?  What would an animal do?  An animl would just start sniffing around and eating whatever smelled eatable.  But a human wouldn't do that.  The first thing a human would do, if there was no option for escape, is start changing the local environment, by building a shelter, by fashioning bodily coverings, by using sharp rocks and learning how to create sharp rocks for cutting, by using vines to tie things together, by figuring out how to store water and food, by makinng sharply pointed sticks for hunting, by making a controlled fire for various purposes, etc.  There is virtually no overlap between the behavior of an animal and the behaviour of a human, aside from basic bodily function.  All of man's actions for fundamental survival are based on changing the environment.  If man is not supposed to change the environment, then it means that man is notsupposed to exist, because man only exists with a mind whose greatest benefit is in understanding how to change the environment in order to ensure bodily survival.  But man does exist, and so the choice is yours: Do you want to exist?  If you do, yhou have to accept that the very existence of your life, the existence of your mind, changes teh environment and in profound and universally unique ways.  What humans do on this planet, what our minds do for survival, is universally unique; these processes are not found anywhere else in the entire universe that we know for certain, and are at least extremely infrequently encountered in theory.  This is not something to feel bad about, but to feel tremendously happy and ecstatic about, because you are doing things which do not occur in the rest of the universe!  Did you not come out of the universe?  Did the universe not in some way create you?  Then you are supposed to be here and doing what we do by definition.  Now you may be an office worker and you cannot understand how it is that your life is engaged in changing the environment, but you only exist because others are changing the environment and providing you the energy and sustenance required for your survival.  You must realize you play a part in this.  If you cannot handle the idea that the environment will change due to your existence, and that it has to change due the existence of your mind, then I do not know what to tell you, but I hope you do not hurt yourself or others as you sort out your desire for non-existence. But as Sabin Colton has observed:  "I maintain that a planet that does not develop intelligent life is a waste of a planet; and intelligent life that does not reach the stars is also a failure".

If it is the negative aspects of human existence which makes hyou sick and tired of "what humans are doing to the planet", then all you have to do is stop supporting those aspects.  It is that easy.  You do not have to force anyone else to do anything they do not want to do, you simply do what you yourself can do and lead strongly by example, and defend what you know is right.  And the way to stop supporting such aspects can only be achieved by learning and informing yourself as to what exactly in the most final and complete and exhaustive analysis is the source and cause for these aspects, because it is only once you become fully informed and face the truth's which you may have been unable to perceive or accept until now, that you will have the knowledge and confidence required to make a change in yourself, and in the environment around you.  And if for you it is as simple as not wanting to pollute the planet, then just remember, that no human actually likes pollution, but plants love carbon dioxide, and they want more of it. 

The idea that the environment is static or that is should remain apparently static over some time period is entirely fraudulent.  Something like 99.9% of all species which have ever existed are extinct, and they are extinct because they did not have the capacity to adapt to natural environmental changes.  The entire fundamental chemical and climatic natures of the oceans, the land surfaces, and the atmosphere, have changed drastically in the past, and the only reason that the environment might appear static to the underdeveloped mental awareness of the sense-perceptionist is because these changes happened in the past, rather than within our own lifetimes.  Whereas even the most cursory awareness of the cycles of ice-ages over even just the last few million years is enough to inform oneself that the climatic changes in the current generation are essentially negligible, and are stochastically meaningless.  The history of the entire universe itself is a history of environmental change, and of evolutionary development of various contexts and degrees, to more highly ordered and more complex structures and forms of matter.  The human mind grasps and comprehends this natural order of things implicitly, and reflects this power and function of the universe willfully.  The point is to do it well, rather than do it poorly.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:36 | 4680861 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

you do not respond to a single thing in my post. You exercise your 'free speech' with what ... what is this called? Existential fundementalism? If you were naked in the woods blah blah blah

This, after your above wanting to argue the fundamental question of the existence of "the greenhouse effect"? all righty then...

 

Notable for it's EXTREME lack of links, when you first appeared on this thread with an EXTREME wall of links.

Scary

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 21:32 | 4681096 The Joker
The Joker's picture

MB - so I would appreciate if you could explain how your thesis increases the survival of humankind and indeed all our fellow life forms.

I believe I answered the question.  1) you're presumption that our survival is in danger from AGW is wrong in the first place, 2) Even if it were right, humans have always depended on changing the environment, which I assume for you means destroying the environment and causing global warming, for survival so there absolutely nothing you can do about it anyway, and 3) it is not up to my thesis to increase survival of humanity because a) it is not my thesis, it is a thesis found in every physics, chemisty, engineering, and evolutionary biology textbook in the last 100 years and b) by changing the environment humans have been able to last through quite a few ice ages and intergalacial periods without the help of someone's thesis.  I might add, it will greatly increase your survival if you stop letting the media scare you to death that an inert, necessary for life, gas is going to kill all of us, it's an oxymoron.  Stress is a killer dude, chill out, nothing to worry about.

MB - but again I don't have the skills to argue this with you nor am I prepared to drop what I'm doing and invest my time and money to acquire the skills.

This is why I abandoned the original argument and just answered your survival question.  I'm not going to force you into an argument.  I just think people who get their info from the MSM and go on websites and further propogate the propoganda are the biggest part of the problem, i.e. you.  Especially when you admit that you won't invest in the understanding, but you will certainly take the time to invest in insisting AGW is real, even though you don't understand it.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 02:50 | 4685655 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

I don't understand all the science the way someone like Flak does. WGII and III are my summer reading list.

If you think people i.e. me are "the biggest part of the problem" then you had better brace yourself for what is gonna go down in Paris.

Nobody there will be arguing about the existence of the greenhouse effect in 2015. Nobody.

And nobody except a few presstitutes will be paying any attention to what 'Obama' says. Maybe Liz Wahl? MWHA HA HA

 

Grab some popcorn watch the WG press releases. Much facts, Many hints

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 21:51 | 4681435 weburke
weburke's picture

There are good sites for global thermometer views. A visual long look at actual temp readings of land and sea is telling the real story.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 21:45 | 4676459 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Thanks for asking, MEAN BUSINESS.

The main thing I mean by unitary mechanisms is to approach everything as energy systems. There are NO fundamental dichotomies from the perspective of energy, because either there is some energy on both sides of a dichotomy, in which case it is NOT fundamental, or there is no energy on one side, in which case, it NOT a dichotomy. As I have written before in many places, the most important radical critique of the current understanding of general energy systems is that when the concept of entropy was developed in thermodynamics, and then extrapolated into information theory, an ABRITRARY MINUS SIGN was inserted into those entropy equations, so that the measurements of power and information would end up resulting in positive numbers, instead of negative numbers.

Of course, that makes little difference to all the rest of the engineering applications, from steam engines to electronic networks. It is like getting a chemistry textbook in which the cover of that book is on upside down and backwards. Everything inside that textbook is still the same, but the orientation of all the contents inside is upside down and backwards to everything else around it! The main thing that happens philosophically is that the concept of subtraction is NOT understood, or is understood backwards. That applies to everything else that is later named, and has properties assigned, so that those can be assembled into narratives. All things which natural languages define, and give names and assign properties to, which then feature in human stories, are initially SUBTRACTED from their Whole Environment. Therefore, everything initially has a negative value, due to it being originally subtracted, as a part of a Whole.

The biggest bullies' bullshit language reverses that. For instance, private property does not exist outside of some system of public violence. Private property is based on staking claims, and backing those up with coercions. Money has become the most refined symbol of that, since money is measurement backed by murder. There is no such thing as "private property" other than some relatively arbitrary subtraction of some part from the Whole Environment. Private property is a fundamental legal fiction, which is integrated into all of the rest of the legal fictions, as systems of organized lies, operating robberies. Again, all forms of power and information are actually based on initial relative subtractions, which means that, according to the true mathematics itself, all power and information have a range of negative values. Of course, the biggest bullies would not like that view, but rather, want to promote their version of their Bizarro Mirror World, whereby private property is a positive thing, rather than a negative thing. However, the coercions to back up the claims actually are expressions of power and information, which are negative, not positive.

The accumulating effects of cutting the whole environment up into pieces of private property is killing the holistic life of the planet at the present time, since we tend to thereby destroy the natural ecologies, but not yet to the degree where we are forced to create new artificial ecologies to replace them. The sooner that we woke up to the radical truths about ourselves, then the sooner we would be able to start saving and integrated the human and industrial ecologies with the still surviving natural ecologies. The longer we take to do that, the worse it will become, and the harder it may be to ever recover from the consequences of all that prolonged evil deliberate ignorance, by relentlessly, recklessly and ruthlessly privatizing the profits, while socialization the losses.

During all of previous evolution, before the industrial revolution, human beings tended to not be powerful enough to destroy the natural ecologies. Those processes could happen much slower, while now everything is on runaway exponential growth curves, which look like they are going up, from the privatized profit point of view, but actually are going down, from the overall socialized losses point of view. Of course, this all goes as far back in time as the origins of human thinking, with dichotomies such as between the raw and the cooked, and so forth. There are living things, in the natural environment, which human beings kill and eat. From the point of view of the human being, it appears to be a "positive" activity when they kill, perhaps cook, and eat some other organism. However, ancient mysticism was always aware of the ways that everything we "know" is a relative illusion, while most traditional hunter/gatherers had some spiritual relationship with the animals and plants which were their food. Therefore, what I am talking about goes deep, deep into the history of human thought, which is all based on common sense dichotomies, such as the living and the dead.

However, as science advances, it is more and more seen that everything is a flow of the same energy, which transforms, but is not created out of nothing, nor sent to nothing (although there may be radically new ways which reveal how that happens.) Thus, the deeper problems with the basic complementarity of the fundamental general energy systems laws which are being used to understand everything else are understood backwards when it comes to understanding human beings, and human civilization, because things like private property and money are understood backwards, to be positive, rather than relative negatives.

What correcting the basic error in the philosophy of science with respect to the concept of entropy does is that it generally enables a creative synthesis between postmodernizing science and ancient mysticism. Energy is Spirit. Entropy is Evil. However, entropy does not actually exist, the way that energy exists. A lot of what I am suggesting comes from taking things like the special theory of relatively seriously. I.e., there is no fundamental dichotomy between the spiritual world versus the material world, because matter is an extremely concentrated form of energy. Furthermore, time and space are relative to energy, not independent absolutes, outside of the existence of energy. That view of the time-space continuum is then another expression of the ways that when energy spreads out in time and space, as entropy appears to increase, but that "entropy" has no existence in itself. Rather, time and space change so that the energy is conserved the same.

That view then relates to the notions of unitary mechanisms. Of course, this is difficult to describe in most natural human languages, which are full of philosophical presumptions, many of which are wrong. For instance, light is a form of energy. There is an infinite range of different colours. However, black does not exist. Black is the absence of light, which enables the perception of light, as colours. Similarly, cold does not exist in itself. Heat exists, with a range of temperatures, with absolute cold having no temperature. Clearly, those are well established scientific insights, which exhibit unitary mechanisms, which moslty are not consistent with human common sense. 

As we think in our physics, so should we think in our metaphysics. At the present time, most people are still using the old-fashioned metaphors, like light is good, and dark is evil. However, as just discussed. Pure white light is all colours together, which can not be seen, while pure black is no colour whatsoever, which also can not be seen. The only things which can be seen are different mixtures of colours. With lower levels of light, we see shades of grey, while with higher levels of light, we see colours. What I am suggesting is that all of the advances in physics should be applied to our metaphysics, and then to our moralities. The conservation of energy is the source of all of our concepts which we associate with God. Another way of saying that is that We Are Our Environment. Our Environment Is God. Of course, that loops around back to the view that Energy is Spirit, while Entropy is Evil.

Anyway, MEAN BUSINESS, those ideas indicate the direction in which I am pointing when I talk about unitary mechanisms. What I am describing, with my attempts to reconcile science with mysticism, has the concept of SUBTRACTION being fundamental to everything else. The way that we reversed the meaning of entropy, by inserting a minus sign, in order that the resulting measurements would give positive numbers, instead of negative numbers, developed all of the rest of the ways that we had been regarding ROBBERY as a positive thing, after that had been suitably rationalized or justified within the biggest bullies' bullshit world view.

Since the subtraction was never absolute, the robbery was never finished. The social pyramid system is really a toroidal vortex. The bottom and top are connected, and should be seen to be connected. However, at the present time, there are attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance which do not do that, and do not want to do that. Hence, we have the international banksters degenerating into parasites that are killing their host, rather acting like top carnivores which are strengthening their prey. Instead of an understood arms race between different social classes, or dynamic equilibria between the different systems of organized lies and robberies, the ruling classes became so excessively dominant that only they were engaged in the class war, while most of the lower classes were barely aware of what was happening.

Almost everything described in your reply, MEAN BUSINESS, could be seen in that context, where the vast majority of people have become so much the victims of the best brainwashing that money could buy that they have become too clueless to even be aware of how clueless they actually are. The vast majority of people are never taught about how the private banks are making "money" out of nothing as debts. It is always sublimely paradoxical to imagine how the authorities could ever teach radical truths and revolution! Obviously, it would be impossible to teach students in schools, or to present those facts through mass media news stories, unless it was put into some proper context, which would necessarily reveal that was ENFORCED FRAUD, or legalized counterfeiting.

If more people did start to become aware of that, and so, moved beyond the lying by omission, which dominated their world view before, then they would start asking critical questions about how and why private banks are making the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts. The answers would be that the international bankers were successfully able to apply the methods of organized crime, in order to dominate the political processes, so that their political puppets would legalize those private banks being able to counterfeit the public "money" supply, which is why the whole world was driven through debt slavery towards drowning in debt insanities.

HOWEVER, as I outlined in my comment above, after one understands that the real world systems have become governments as the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, due to the history where the War Kings gradually morphed to become the Fraud Kings, while the death controls were successfully operated as the maximum possible deceits, and the debt controls were successfully operated as the maximum possible frauds, the CONTROLLED OPPOSITION, REACTIONARY REVOLUTIONARIES, then propose bullshit "solutions," which require going backwards to some old-fashioned religions or ideologies.

There is NO doubt that there are combined money/murder systems, and that, Bankers are Behind the Wars. However, better understanding of that requires understanding warfare as the manifestation of general energy systems, with the radical critique of the concept of entropy, so that Unitary Mechanisms can be applied to both understand the problems, and then, continue to consistently propose solutions to those problems within that same frame of reference of those Unitary Mechanisms.

Citizens should be aware that they are members of an organized crime gang, which is their country, in order to act as more competent citizens. More competent citizens would take more responsibility for operating the death controls that back up the debt controls. However, instead, the prolonged history of the triumphant application of the methods of organized crime to make and maintain the social pyramid system civilization has resulted in society being almost totally dominated by the the best professional liars and immaculate hypocrites, i.e., by the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories.

That created the world we are living in today, a Bizarro Mirror World Fun House, where almost everything is proportionately backwards and distorted. The public "money" supply has been about 99% privatized. That means that "democracy" is already about 99% destroyed. We do NOT live in free and democratic societies. We live in runaway fascist plutocracy juggernauts, with the feedback between a corrupt monetary system constantly driving more corrupt political processes, to maintain that corrupt monetary system, and every other corrupt kind of policy, which is resulting in the manifestation of an apparently runaway fascist police state developing. However, in that context, there is nothing to be gained from promoting the same old-fashioned false fundamental dichotomies, and related impossible ideals, that were present in all of the already co-opted religions and ideologies, that were the controlled opposition, that worked through compromises with the biggest bullies, by promoting basically the same frame of reference, operating within the biggest bullies' bullshit world view.

There are chronic political problems which are inherent in the nature of life, found throughout all general energy systems, which develop evolutionary ecologies. After the developments of the industrial revolution, human ecology was able to go into an exponential growth phase, which is NOT possible to endlessly continue. By definition, what will stop that are death controls. At the present time, the banksters are preparing to cause more genocidal wars, along with democidal martial law. Those who become aware of that, and denounce it, tend to never propose any better ways to operate death controls instead. Furthermore, none of the old-fashioned religions or ideologies have anything whatsoever to provide regarding how to develop industrial ecologies, despite the need for those to emerge being now just as great as the need for different human ecologies, both within the overall, infinitely greater, natural ecology of the general environmental context of planet Earth.

Our basic problems are that our existing social systems developed to operate through the maximum possible deceits and frauds, and the controlled opposition to those established systems indulge in just as much of the same kinds of bullshit about that as the biggest bullies do. In that context, having more people partially understand how the combined money/murder systems really work, with the bankers covertly backing up their debt controls with death controls, is only the barest beginning towards better understanding those problems.

My recommendations for using unitary mechanisms are aspects of an overall synthetic mode of thought, which attempts to reconcile and creatively integrate postmodernizing sciences with ancient mysticism, so that we could have social stories which enabled scientifically improved moralities, which would be based upon better understanding human beings and human civilizations, as general energy systems within all of the other general energy systems. Through that means, using unitary mechanisms, the realities about the ideas of private property and money could be better understood, which then might enable those things to be operated through more realistic ideals, in order to be operated better.

Of course, at the present time, I recognize that we are headed on runaway trajectories towards tragedies instead, since it still is the case that the biggest bullies dominate civilization with their bullshit, since the majority of people still believe in that bullshit, as well as that including most of the controlled opposition to those bullies. Right now, the bankers are mostly still ruling over others with almost no trouble at all. HOWEVER, those bankers are having bigger and bigger problems emerging, including that "more and more people are seeing the connection between corporate banksterism and militarism," ... and "that all wars were bankers' wars."

While I do not dispute that, and I respect the work that George Washington does to increase that trend, my critical comment was about how it is not good enough to only begin to understand those social facts, but then collapse back to proposing "solutions" based on the same old ways of thinking. That is why I promote unitary mechanisms, as new ways of thinking, which are consistent with the new ways of thinking found throughout other sciences, to be applied to our political problems.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 14:01 | 4677534 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Thanks RM I did not think this was understood by anyone outside of the small group of super techs. Understnding it is hard enough but explaining it is even harder to do. Most of the folks that should know this avoid it like the plague.

 So much is possible. If we are willing. Willing to explore the true nature of all things.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:08 | 4678199 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Yeah, VWAndy, "I TOO did not think this was understood by anyone outside of the small group of super techs."

Moreover, what I talked about in my comment was the relatively simple physics. Things like quantum mechanics are even more mind-boggling. But nevertheless, they have been very well confirmed by experiments, and so, are solid science, upon which the real world's technologies are based. Therefore, we live in a world where there ARE globalized electronic frauds, backed by the threat of the force of atomic bombs, while the overwhelming vast majority of people do not have a clue how those things work, because they have been conditioned to not want to understand! Since the banksters dominate the whole society through enforced frauds, the banksters try to make sure that most people do not understand, and feel like they do not want to understand, how the world really works!

The number of people who actually want to understand appears to be a tiny percentage, of a tiny percentage, of a tiny percentage, of the population, that I call the Fringe Cubed, because only the fringe of a fringe of a fringe are interested in understanding! As I said in my previous comments, the Bankers are Behind the War ON CONSCIOUSNESS, since their success is based on FRAUDS, which requires the majority of people to believe bullshit, while not wanting to think about that.

There has been thousands of years of the ruling classes enslaving other people by keeping them ignorant and afraid, by backing up lies with violence, and that is still now the main reasons why the vast majority of people feel like they do not want to understand, without being aware of why they do not want to understand.

A LOT MORE PEOPLE COULD UNDERSTAND, IF THEY WANTED TO!

However, as you wrote, VWANDY, "most of the folks that should know this avoid it like the plague," which is an indication of how successful the ruling classes, which are now primarily the banksters, were at waging War Against Consciousness!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:19 | 4678591 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

I suspect its the ones that only get paid if they are right that get it. Lots of folks dont need to be correct to get paid. Now we are coming into a time when being right is gonna matter more than a few dollars.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 05:02 | 4676787 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

RM, thank you so much. This is going to take me a while. likely in fits and bits

I pulled a book off the shelf that I haven't read in decades, foisted upon me by the best teacher I probably ever had, in gr13: 'Divisions' by Paul Levine/ A five part series for CBC radio 1975. I've been pouring over it for three hours now! It amazed me 30 years ago that a seemingly "thin" book was so jammed! excerpt:

 

"But in remaking the world, humanity must recognize the natural limits to growth beyond which both equity and ecology are endangered. Those limits have long been passed by the culture of wealth which is fast approaching the point of no return. Says Illiach:

To formulate a theory about a future society both very modern and not dominated by industry, it will be neccessary to recognize natural scales and limits. We must come to admit that only within certain limits can machines take the place of slaves; beyond these limits they lead to a new kind of serfdom. Only within limits can education fit people into a manmade environment: beyond these limits lies the universal schoolhouse, hospital ward, or prison. Only within limits ought politics to be concerned with the distribution of maximum industrial outputs, rather than with equal inputs of either ENERGY OR INFORMATION. Once these limits are recognized, it becomes possible to articulate the triadic relationship between persons, tools, and a new collectivity. Such a society, in which modern technologies serve politically interrelated individuals rather than managers, I will call "convivial".

 Ivan Illiach's call for institutional transformation is the demand of a true cultural revolutionary. It is revolutionary because it demands nothing less than the total revision of society; it is cultural because it argues that the revolution must begin with the transformation of individual consciousness

>>>>>>>>>>

perhaps the rise of info tech has changed this but to what degree remains to be seen. Anyway, seemed in line with your post, which I'll be studying carefully this week. thx again!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 17:13 | 4677820 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Yes, MEAN BUSINESS, I vaguely remember that from when it first came out. I was quite interested in those kinds of topics from the late 1960s, onwards.

By the 1970s, it was obvious to me that exponential growth was going to run into limits hard and fast, and that it would be better to prepare to adapt to that. However, the established systems entrenched themselves! In the USA the gold standard was finally completely abandoned, while in Canada the government agreed to stop using the Bank of Canada in any way that the international bankers did not like. Therefore, North America continued runaway debt acceleration, with their debt engines becoming treadmills, that everyone was forced to run faster and faster upon, while deliberately ignoring the longer term consequences of doing that.

Of course, I regard pot politics as symbolic of the rest of North American politics. Both the government of Canada and the USA commissioned official studies of marijuana, the Le Dain and Shafer Reports, and both concluded that pot prohibition caused much more harm than the pot did. However, governments threw both of those studies in the trash, and instead decided to amplify the drug war, which was primarily the war against marijuana, for decade after decade, with an attitude of evil deliberate ignorance towards the facts about cannabis, as stated in those Reports that the governments themselves paid to be done! 

The Bankers are Behind the Wars, as their established systems maintain willful blindness towards facts and logic. Since their systems were based on legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, evidence and arguments never made much difference, because social systems based on lies back by violence deliberately ignore facts and logic. The banksters operate systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS, which therefore become the primary ways through which human civilization relates to everything else, so that runaway social polarization and destruction of the natural world continues, since the Bankers are Behind the Wars, with aspects of their WAR AGAINST CONSCIOUSNESS being practically universal everywhere one looks.

A relatively very small group of people (who are relatively frequent readers of Zero Hedge) ARE engaged in resisting the banksters' wars against them. However, overall, it appears to me that the majority of people are losing that war, because they are mostly not even aware of that, since the effects of the war against their consciousness have already become too successful, so that they mostly do not even recognize the degree to which that has happened.

After one wraps one's head around the ways that the banksters' puppet politicians were able to transform hemp from being to single best plant for people, for food, fiber, fun, and medicine, into becoming "marijuana which is almost as bad as murder," then one perceives that that symbolized all the other ways that the Bankers were Behind the Wars.

RUNAWAY DEBT SLAVERY, BACKED BY RUNAWAY WARS BASED ON DECEITS, ARE DRIVING US THROUGH TO DEBT INSANITIES, WHICH WILL PROVOKE DEATH INSANITIES, BECAUSE THE BANKERS ARE BEHIND THE WARS!

Of course, the "war on (some) drugs" also illustrated that. For those who have a sufficiently macabre sense of humour, to try to cope with comprehending how crazy civilization has become, because ENFORCED FRAUDS control almost everything, here is a collection on Deek Jackson's Web site of his FKN NEWZ discussing the drug wars:

http://main.fknnewz.com/blog/gfhfghf/
 

The only areas where I am aware of things getting even a little better are with regard to some creative alternative technologies, which appear to be making progress. However, all the the most important problems are still getting worse, faster, because the bankers mostly continue to rule with almost no trouble at all. In that context, Hemp Truth is the single simplest symbol, while 9/11 Truth is the most spectacular symbol, of the ways that civilization is actually being controlled by huge lies, backed by lots of violence, while evidence and logical arguments appear to be utterly unable to change that the Bankers are Behind the Wars.

Although the Internet is enabling way more people to wake up to those facts, so far, nothing significant has been changed by that degree of awakening. Furthermore, as I described in detail in my comments above, a perpetual problem is that most of the people who begin to wake up to the systems of debt slavery, backed by wars based on deceits, still then propose the same old-fashioned impossible ideals, as the basis of their "solutions," despite that those have never worked before, but only allowed things to still deteriorate, because those impossible ideals actually assist the professional liars and immaculate hypocrites to continue to operate.

But nevertheless, the runaway realities of debt insanities, provoking death insanities, are surely going to force more people than ever before to start thinking about things which they used to take for granted. In that context, I like to day dream that MAYBE those who have already been thinking about these issues for decades will be able to assist those who only more recently started to advance their understanding better ... Someone who had been thinking about this for 25 years MIGHT be able to help somebody else who had only been thinking about this for 2.5 years?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:15 | 4680609 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

Good rant, thanks RM.

Cannabis is not the only plant which got banned by bankers. But it's the most famous one.

People are slowly waking up due to experience of how the home made stuff from hemp can help with various health problems. Just gotta find your favourite seed bank.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 17:05 | 4676014 kurt
kurt's picture

Of all the reasons for the banker "suicides" I'd be willing to bet that they have banked on the successful manufacture of a new and continuing stream of wars: these maggots are levered up to the moon. When the truth, or financial brick walls occur, these sociopathic murderers do what they do, murder. Thanks to Putin, two of their scam-wars have been delayed.

We're going to have to pry these monsters out like termites. However, in this case they are hiding in walnut paneled offices. They are an infestation.

Why the fuck did the NSA provide direct access to their database to third parties? 

Sometimes I think only Jesus can kick out the money changers. This time I'd enjoy seeing them tossed into an eternally flaming pit.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 16:58 | 4677842 rocker
rocker's picture

Here almost everything. Believe almost nothing. Just maybe some of the "suicides" are deaths by other means. Hmmmm.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 16:48 | 4675997 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

US Spy Drone Shot Down Over Northern Fleet Base Alarms Russia

"...Northern Fleet forces first identified what they described as an American stealth unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) surveillance aircraft named the RQ-180 departing from Norway’s Stavanger International Airport, Sola (SVG) attempting to disguise its radar image with those of regular departing civilian aircraft.".....

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1763.htm

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 04:10 | 4676763 Reptil
Reptil's picture

You're quoting Sorcha Faal, really?

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 16:19 | 4675964 Joe A
Joe A's picture

And they finance these wars (and everything else) with money they create out of thin air. How about that!

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 15:58 | 4675926 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Bankers are behind all wars. Yep and they haven't figured out how to carry out a nuclear war and their financial terrorism is ineffective with Russia and China. So now bankers are the targets of wars.

YeeeeeeHaaaaaa.

Movin movin movin. Keep dem banksters squriming

Putin.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 15:25 | 4675879 Duc888
Duc888's picture

Everythin is A-OK now, Obama is on the job.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 14:48 | 4675843 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"Give the guillotine control of a nation's banksters and care will be restored to society and money."

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 14:03 | 4675778 kellycriterion
kellycriterion's picture

Andrew McKillop

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 13:27 | 4675717 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

even though this story is old hat, it deserves retelling time and time again. the great general smedley butler made this very point (the thesis of the above article) toward the end of his illustrious usmc career when the scales of jingoist, right winged, ziocon lies fell from his eyes. he stated emphatically that as a marine he had served wall street and wall street only.

the banksters start ALL wars and play both sides. in the usa, the bush-harriman-rockefeller banksters were financing hitler, while these and other rothschild bankster scum financed ziocon churchill of england and the ziocon ussr.

the same group is egging for war in ukraine today.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 13:59 | 4675771 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

There is noting like hearing someone speak the truth to power better than you can. Thank you Tony.

And big huge gratitude kudos for these good works, GW. The truth is plain as Jane. The evil banksters are the most wicked entity on the planet and must be scrubbed off soon!

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 17:08 | 4676018 kurt
kurt's picture

Terminal Jubilee

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 12:27 | 4675604 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

George Washington - Well done. Once the Internet genie got out of the bottle it was only matter of time before that mirrored exposed closely guarded trade secrets. Here is Napoleon Bonaparte had to say about this topic: When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.
Napoleon

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 15:34 | 4675890 weburke
weburke's picture

Napoleon Bonaparte may have been ticked off because of course he got direction and advice that was betrayal to those he led. Common problem, kadhaffi is all happy, gets lots of shiny medals to wear, but falls in love with his people and his masters of course planned on betraying them. He resisted, like so many, who do of course die, because you can forget about fighting to win. You can of course fight to lose/waste/annoy perhaps, but dont, the rulers are quite invisible, and so entrenched they have the next few centuries in the bag.....barring an earth polar shift, but, actually they have planned for that.....look at the denver airport roof for instance. And what is underneath. The seed banks are another long range plan. Best to align with preppers. But, I did think at one time there was a chance.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SboRijhWFDU

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