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They've Found the Missing Fukushima Nuclear Cores ... Scattered All Over Japan
We reported in May 2011 that authorities knew – within days or weeks – that all 3 active Fukushima nuclear reactors had melted down, but covered up that fact for months.
The next month, we reported that Fukushima’s reactors had actually suffered something much worse: nuclear melt-throughs, where the nuclear fuel melted through the containment vessels and into the ground. At the time, this was described as:
The worst possibility in a nuclear accident.
But now, it turns out that some of the Fukushima reactors have suffered even a more extreme type of damage: melt-OUTS.
By way of background, we’ve noted periodically that scientists have no idea where the cores of the nuclear reactors are.
And that highly radioactive black “dirt” has been found all over Japan.
It turns out that the highly radioactive black substances are likely remnants of the core.
The Journals Environmental Science & Technology and Journal of Environmental Radioactivity both found (hat tip EneNews) that the highly radioactive black substances match fuel from the core of the Fukushima reactors.
The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission agrees.
Indeed, “hot particles” with extremely high levels of radiation – 7 billion, 40 billion , and even 40 billion billion Bq/kg – have been found all over the Fukushima region, and hundreds of miles away … in Tokyo.
Let’s put this in perspective. The Atlantic notes:
Japanese regulations required nuclear waste with 100 or more bq/kg of Cesium to be monitored and disposed of in specialized containers.
***
The new government limit for material headed for landfills is 8000 bq/kg, 80 times the pre-Fukushima limit.
So the hottest hot particle found so far is 5 million billion times greater than the current government limits of what can be put in a landfill.
In other words, the core of at least one of the Fukushima reactors has finally been found … scattered all over Japan.
How did material from the cores get dispersed so far? Remember, there was a huge explosion at reactor number 1 , and an even bigger explosion at reactor number 3.
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You are so stuck in your over the top optimism that debate becomes pointless.
until the cores are torn down in ten or so years
And that's the cherry on top.
I have news for you: the cores will never be "torn down" - just like Chernobyl they will likely end up pouring concrete over it, after they were able to extract the spent fuel rods.
Maybe you are better at predicting the future than I am. I don't even have a Ouija board.
I'm projecting that Japan will exist in 10 years. Despite the short term financial debacles ahead of us, it's government will survive. It may not be necessary to tear down the reactors, the site could be abandoned, much like the old steel mills in America's Rust Belt. It's in a remote location. Who knows?
There won't be a necessity to pour concrete over it; all they need do is provide water for cooling. The radioactivity is rapidly diminishing. The biggest hazard, the Cesium 137 in the basement waters, has mostly been removed. The radioactivity is declining on the surface; the time will come when the power plant no longer represents a radiation hazard. But that might take 30 to 60 years. 10 years is the earliest for it to be safe to dismantle the cores. This all depends on politics, not science.
The level of your knowledge is finite. Melted-down cores are not the end of the world.
The other Nuclear Power Plants in Japan are likely to be restarted, simply because the country can't afford the foreign exchange to pay for natural gas to provide electrical energy. Desperate times are ahead for Japan.
Only three of the six reactors are melted down. The Japanese may be forced to restart the reactors which weren't damaged. Is that risky? Sure, it is. Will it happen? I don't know. Lives are cheap in the orient.
Can you stop bringing in additional but completely irrelevant issues ("Japan will exist in 10 years"), varying the scale of view at will ("not the end of the world" - whew, I'm so relieved!),
and talking in bullshit half-statements?
the Cesium 137 in the basement waters, has mostly been removed
1. Where was it removed to, as it for sure hasn't decayed yet?
2. How did it get into the basement water, and is there more from where it originated?
3. Are there other places Cs137 might travel into (air, ground, ground water, ocean) and what is being done against that??
the time will come when the power plant no longer represents a radiation hazard
Yeah, so you would be happy to live close to Chernobyl right now, because the radiation levels there also dropped a lot?
As all more educated people know, the bigger problem is the radiation from particles ingested into your body in some way.
That could only be mediated by
- perfectly cleaning up entire areas which is not feasible
- waiting for a few half-lifes of the problematic isotopes.
if you think it's so great, why don't you move to Fukushima?
Japan has some pretty strict immigration policies. It will be going through a hyper inflation of it's currency fairly soon. That will create severe privation in its people; It pains me to be around desperate people who I can't help. I don't speak Japanese and don't know the customs. That sounds like enough reasons. None of which have to do with Fukushima.
Now that you've gotten the 4th grade bulls*t out of your system, I'd go if it was worth my while. It would get me away from ignorant bozo's like you.
I wouldn't be in any danger. I wouldn't live within five miles of the nuclear plant; that is the exclusion zone. I'd take reasonable precautions. No big deal.
Fukushima is a local disaster which is slowly being corrected. It's still dangerous within a mile of the plant, but five miles away is rather safe.
I ain't got much time, but let me at least tell you, that this is not just theory. It's all in the book. I gave you the link several times before and will do so again, if necessary:
http://www.osti.gov/scitech/biblio/5070180
"Identification and assessment of containment and release management strategies for a BWR Mark I containment"
Look under 4.2.1.2.2 "After Vessel Breach", 4-14 "Drywell Shell meltthrough"
4-15 "Core-concrete interaction" (also 4-24 "FP Release from CCI")
4-16 "Figure 4.7 shows an example of concrete attack by CCI, typical for cases predicted by the CORCON model of the STCP."
Note that "Basemat Meltthrough or RPV-Pedestal Erosion" are at the very end of the "Late CRET".
what i do know is the blue glow on the youtube videos was not the blue plate special at the local diner. and we have been in denial ever since. nothing to see here keep moving keep reporting to work keep eating the irradiated food keep being a slave and dont worry when u start to glow its a natural thing. and thats how the world will end with people buying the dips and nuclear bombs are bursting in air. ha ha what a planet beam me up scotty there is no intelligent life in control here ha ha
Wait a second George W. I dont think theres a geiger counter in existence that can read 40 billion billion bequerels of activity. are we extrapolating here?
Strictly speaking one can measure at distance (from multiple locale to focus source and reduce non-source i.e. noise), and use well-established distance dissipation rate to remotely estimate radiation level at source.
"Extrapolation" is debatable. It also gets a bad rap. We hear less about the evils of 'interpolation', but both require knowing the equation of the data inside and outside the known set. A Geiger counter also extrapolates btw.
If your question implies a belief that you can't use your ruler to measure anything longer than 12 inches, then I hope that you do not measure things for a living.
The China Syndrome Morphs into “The Japan Syndrome”
Hysteria. There was no NUCLEAR explosion at Fukushima.
There were two hydrogen explosions due to gas from inside the containment building being vented to the sheet metal structure outside. Inside the vented gas was hydrogen and oxygen which had been disassociated from water by the high temperatures from the meltdown.
These were two interesting explosions but how powerful were they? How far could they throw material? Was material available to be thrown? The Cesium was released as a gas and rain has been concentrating it. It could be tiny amounts which are very radioactive. The author doesn't tell us how many Kg was discovered. It needs to be scooped up and buried.
Also, the melted down cores were in a big steel reactor vessel which was inside a huge concrete containment building. A single explosion couldn't have broken through both. Especially, since the containment building was designed to withstand a 707 flying into it at top speed. I seriously doubt that any core material was distributed by the explosions.
Now, let's consider the meltdowns. There were moments when the cores were not covered with water so high temperatures were possible. Some volatile radioactive materials could have been released. We have no idea how much of the cores were melted.
We won't know for another five to seven years, because we need to wait for residual radioactivity to decrease enough so TEPco can tear apart the cores. There will more scare mongering when that happens. The spent rods in the pool on top of Building #4 have probably been relocated to ground level. I heard no reports of a catastrophe.
Let's consider a worse case. Let's say the reactor rods completely melted and burned through the steel vessel and a dozen feet of concrete into the bedrock. In the process of melting, the mass of molten material would be diluted. As the mass got larger, for the same amount of heat being generated, the temperature would necessarily decrease. Eventually, the mass would stabilize where it could not dig any further. So, the idea that it could spread sideways is questionable. At least, very far.
It seems likely that the problem is local. Even a mile distant would stretch credulity.
Fukushima is a mess, but a local mess. The residual radioactivity is dropping. These facts disturb the Anti-Nuke activists, because they want to keep the story going. So, they invent scare mongering stories to plague us.
Hydrogen explosions can be extremely forceful! Why do you think Hydrogen is the first choice combustable to be used in rocket engines?!
As for your statement that a Mark I containment was constructed to withstand the impact of a 707 - that's a plain lie! NO containment in the whole world has been designed to endure such forces. Even the most advanced containments have a maximum design pressure that just roughly equals the pressure that would build up if all the coolant would evaporate completely. That's called a "full-pressure containment", and it means exactly that. Those are the sturdiest containments of all, and in no way would they endure the impact of a 727 (there are no 707's used in flight anymore).
And you now what?! Fuckushima didn't have such a full pressure containment! They were first built in the seventies, and you know from when Fukushima is, don't you? That Mark I containment is a bad joke compared to the full-pressure containment of, say, Three Mile Island.
It would be greatly appreciated, if you would refrain from consternating those who don't know better with plain nonsense. Have a nice day.
I was speculating no less than the authors. I was discounting what seemed to be hysteria. Where is the evidence that nuclear core material was blown widely?
What are the facts?
I see evidence that the sheet metal structures on the tops of buildings are destroyed, but is there evidence that the containment building was broken open? Do you have proof? I've seen none presented. The Cesium deposits are not part of a core dispersal.
Even if I get the details wrong, this doesn't mean that my doubts are in error. The burden of proof is not on me. The article's contentions are highly questionable.
Actually there are re-engined versions are still being used as tankers. But more topically do you personally think the fact of intact SFP and service pool concrete, and intact lower walls of containment and pressure door are consistent with a genuine nuclear event in number three?
I don't. And the notion of an orange flash being "thousands of degrees C" (in GWs link) is kind of dismissible don't you think? especially considering the guy actually said this:
So he's not saying or claiming it's a nuclear explosion.
The tone of the whole thing is suspect, plus the the organization doing the interview (ABC Aust) is also dubious in my view given how the ABC is notorious for increasingly playing-up partisan jaundiced slanted reportage, something that's infuriated a larger and larger number of people in recent years and has recently lead to calls for root and branch inquiry, reform and reorganization of the ABC (and ABC Radio National is one of the worst for this, which is where that link is referencing).
So I suspect Bard is more or less correct. I have said so myself several times that I think Gundersen is flat out wrong with his nuclear 'detonation' in an SFP interpretation of events, and explained why. And I see nothing compelling in his supposition, and that's all it's ever been.
Occam's razor BW. ;-)
There also is a regular 707 still in flight, I think it belongs to John Travolta - but we both know that ain't the point, don't we? Personally, I don't think of a nuclear reaction as cause of the destruction. Thousands of degrees C by far ain't enough for that sort of energy release, an early fireball of onsetting chain reaction would be much, much hotter. Also agreed, but also not the point. What I meant to point out, was that NO containment in the world would withstand the impact of the several tons a commercial airplane weighs at normal cruising speed of a few hundred knots. Not even a real sturdy containment, which Fukushima didn't have in the first place. As for Bard ... Hanlon's Razor, Element, Hanlon's razor ... ;-)
Don't get lost in the details.
The author makes some implausible claims. How reasonable is his logic? Is the evidence conclusive enough to back up his contentions? Where is the author's proof that the containment building was breached? Nowhere.
Instead, the claims are a mass of data leading to a unreasonable conclusion. Does the author understand basic physics? I've seen no evidence of that.
Is he a political science major? His contentions seem more religious or ideological, rather than scientific.
Ah yes, he has the Qantas replica version, I forgot about that one. :)
I gathered Bard was suggesting the outer shell and frame supports would break the aircraft up quite a lot before it got to the containment wall, but coming in from the top, well, not so much.
Frankly, I consider the fuku containments were very robust in terms of their outer support structures. The concrete panels blown off exposed copious rebar which is a testament to how energetic the pressure impulse was. Pity the plumbing and extraction ducting failed so much easier, and first.
My thinking was that it would take a massive force just to spread core materials as widely as is claimed.
But, before that could happen, the steel reactor vessel would need to be breached. This could occur from heat inside the reactors, but this would tend to melt downward, not up. The design of the vessel works against that possibility.There are all kinds of control rods in the way. Of course, an explosion could break the vessel open. But how big?
But, before that could happen, the containment building would need to be broken open. How big an explosion would be needed to accomplish that?
Each barrier would require more force. So, it seems as though that the two hydrogen explosions were insufficient. Sure, light sheet metal was blown widely. But reinforced concrete many feet thick is fairly resistant to explosions, unless it is confined such as in a shape charge. I remain doubtful until there is evidence.
I have no ax to grind. but I dislike being gullible. Nor do I have a reason to spread panic. So, I remain unpersuaded.
I don't accept that you have no axe to grind, or that it's all innocent commentary, simply because I can see in comments below that, yet again, you are trying to assert/suggest that the tsunami caused the melt downs.
i.e. where you yet again say the backup power in a flooded basement was a terrible design, etc.
Implying the whole thing was caused by a tsunami, and not very dangerous reactor-core PV plumbing, that was observed and reported by multiple plant workers, to have cracked and snapped, then water profusely poured out of the pressure vessels immediately during and after the quake, and long before the tsunami arrived.
That has been pointed out to you, by me, many times, and I have provided you substantial evidence of this, so we know without any question that the damage to the PV cooling systems and their water-cycle integrity was caused by the violent earthquake movement destroying the critical cooling plumbing to the reactor cores, thus meltdown was assured to occur from there on, as the PVs could not be refilled again, totally irrespective of there being a tsunami thereafter or flooding of backup power systems or their position in a basement.
Backup power became entirely irrelevant, once the major pipes to the core broke, and even if they still had uninterrupted mains power supply at that point, there was still no way they could refill the PVs to cover and cool the cores as water was pouring out the plumbing near the BOTTOM of the pressure vessels just as fast as they tried to pour it in.
So you are deliberately trying to avoid that fact and pretend just the extreme Tsunami did it, and pretending the extreme earthquake was not the real cause of the meltdowns.
So I have no doubt that you Bard are committed to trying to misrepresent that, and brush it aside, so that this terrible on-going hazard, at all other exposed NPP sites, will be ignored.
You have tried this line literally dozens of times now even though you definitely know it's a massive distortion of the events and causation.
And I know you know that, because I made damned sure you were aware of it.
So its so obvious that it's undeniable that you are seeking to twist the facts of the event itself, and the real and on-going dangers in the other PV systems in other nuclear power plants, exposed to the same high seismicity potential, and are doing it in a quite perverse and highly suspicious way.
So don't get the idea that I'm on-board with your schtick, as your schtick reveals you are in fact a premeditated deceiver.
I just happen to agree that the explosions were from chemical bond oxidation/combustion reactions and not due to nuclear reactions.
Expressing doubts is not evidence of duplicity. The burden of proof is on the author, not me. He makes rather wild claims with no evidence to back it up.
You are the one who seems gullible. You are utterly ignorant of the physics, involved. You are projecting internal damage we won't know about until the reactor cores are dismantled.
After the earthquake, all reactors were safely shut down. If TEPco had not been incompetent and allowed the backup generators to be flooded, there would have been no meltdown. We would have never heard about Fukushima. It would be back on line in two weeks.
Even so, a meltdown does not destroy the Pressure Vessel. The author tries to have it both ways that the reactor material was blown out of the top and it flowed out of the bottom. Pick one, please.
Where is the evidence that reactor material was blown out of the top? Where is the photographic evidence that the containment building was breached? I keep seeing the same old pictures from a week after the accident.
I've explained the problems with the idea that reactor material flowed out of the bottom. Eventually, it would stabilize in the solid rock beneath Fukushima.
I hate to disturb your pseudo-religious pageant with some reason.
Hardly matters since the basic truths of the Fuk -event- are well buried. The big boys can get away with anything. They even lie about the sun and moon, and no one will be the wiser, and if they are, they keep their mouths shut ! amazing.
The Liars are not all confined to TEPco and Japan's Nuclear Regulatory commission. Look at how many of the Anti nuke fanatic's catastrophes turned out to be laughable.
Some radioactive elements are harmful while others are less so. The only really dangerous element around Fukushima is the Cesium which escaped in the early days. Rain is causing it to gather. This is fine, because someone can, then, go scoop it up and bury it.
The Cesium which was in the basement waters has mostly been removed. Strontium 90 is dangerous, but very little of it is evident.
The least dangerous is the Tritium. Since there is no longer a nuclear reaction going on, it is not being produced. But, it will take 30 years for it to decay. Most of the Tritium could safely be flushed into the sea. It would spread out and be no real concern. But, doing something so sensible would panic the anti-nuke fanatics.
You an industry mouthpiece?
No, I'm a thinking person rather than a ideologue. I'm a retired aircraft industry engineer. I'm mildly interested in the nuclear field, though I never worked in it.
Let's find out about you. How long have you worked for Greenpeace? Did you flunk out of physics and chemistry, so you entered Public Relations? Are you working for an NGO? What's your expertize? Shooting your mouth off? Jumping to conclusions? Replying with pseudo religious fervor? Impugn the character of anyone who disagrees with you? That makes you sound like a Lefty. Am I close?
Well everything is just fine then. Thanks for the hand waving.
Only an idiot would think everything is just fine. But, only a fool would accept every wild speculation without questions.
I'm trying to be realistic. This is hard in the midst of fanatics.
Where there is blame, let's assign it fairly. Where there is danger, let's understand it. There seems to be no point in panicking. You people are the one's doing the screaming, running away, waving your hands.
Oh ... ???
I got around to reading that article. All I can say is that it defies logic.
Nuclear power plants can not have a nuclear explosion; the concentration of the fissile materiel is too low to sustain a runaway reaction. The cadmium rods were inserted into the core after the Earthquake, shutting down any fission.
All that has been going on has been secondary radiation from the decay of fission products. That's enough to cause a meltdown if water is not circulated. The plant ran for eight hours on batteries after the backup generators were flooded.
Even a fizzle yield A-bomb would do more damage than has been exhibited. The plant would be flattened.
Waiting for Arnie Gunderson to give his take on this.
The announcement of the hottest hot particle - 40 billion billion bq/kq - came via Arnie interviewing the scientist who found it.
How big was it? Microscopic?
Thanks will go look to see if I can find it.
There are many ways to lie about a technical topic. The best is to leave out essential information.
How big is the radioactive material? What kind of radiation is being released? How close is the material to people? Who is in danger of being harmed?
Absent this information, how can a person assess the risk which the discovery represents? A sample safely locked up in a laboratory, surrounded by competent people to handle it, is a scientific curiosity, not a hazard.
I linked to it in the post. Just click on the link here: 40 billion billion Bq/kg
There are problems with using becquerels for a measurement, rather than Sievert's or RAD's. The latter two calculate the harm to an organism.
Becquerels are a very large number, so it spooks the perennially confused. It also becomes an article of faith - a propaganda tool. Can you proceed from this number to how dangerous it is? Not without some missing information.
What kind of radiation is being emitting? If it is Alpha or Beta radiation, even huge amounts of radiation can to blocked by a piece of aluminum foil or a piece of paper.
How big the sample is matters. If it is small, it can be surrounded by inert material and placed in a cask until it decays. The more radioactive the sample is, the quicker it is gone. In the meanwhile, you must be careful about it.
My problem is with the people who would use this information to mislead us.
fukushima diary has been tracking that black goop and mutations for some time. loads of videos turning up with high counts, as far Korea even. On the ground, it's pretty hot it seems.
With a little bit of DNA luck, maybe they'll start turning out some real-life Anime chicks....green hair, big eyes and tracts of land.
Can't all be bad.
/sarc
Godzilla...
george - your reporting on this crime has been outstanding, as it has been about the macando crime and the criminal organization, bp.
the real story, however, is hawaii and the west coast, where this crime has already alighted. there will be no escaping this wicked evil. i fully expect population flight and the consequent destruction of property prices.
but the story behind the story is the how the crime was instigated. the tsunami was manmade - it was not an act of nature. either haarp or nuclear weapons were used to cause it, and it was related to the usd and sino-japanese relations which the usa sabotaged.
I've heard all this before. You may be right. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Any whistleblower with actual knolwedge would be dead well before telling their story -and of course, even if they did get their story out to our wonderful "free" mainstream media/Press - zero chance it would ever be reported or published or given any real coverage. hard to know what to believe these days. The Gov and intelligence agencies put out a lot of disinformation. 1984 has been here in the Western world for years. No doubt about that.
That's what happens when you nuke a nuclear reactor. http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/fukushima1.html
What do you mean by nuke?
What happened at Fukushima was some meltdowns. No nuclear explosion was possible.
The pictures on the advocacy website were from a hydrogen explosion. What you are seeing is damage to a sheet metal structure. There is no broken concrete from the containment building shown.
What does it mean? Not much.
So it's not safe to go back?
Now...now, George Washington you are doing it again. Every time you open your month on anything nuclear you talk absolute rubbish.
And every comment you make is rubbish.
Whose comment is more "intelligent" - yours or mine?
Insults are cheap. Takes about five seconds of typing.
Got something intelligent to say? Please enlighten us.
It is not rubbish to ask the author to prove his case. Asking reasonable questions is what an intelligent person does. The author should rush to answer those questions if he is pursuing the truth.
If he is an ideologue, then he will duck the questions or insult the people asking them.
I welcome any retort to my doubts, but all I get are side issues and character assassination. Those merely confirm my suspicions.
PT...Do I need to say anything more?
Indeed, “hot particles” with extremely high levels of radiation – 7 billion, 40 billion , and even 40 billionbillion Bq/kg – have been found all over the Fukushima region, and hundreds of miles away …
This is simply the narrative of fearmongering.
Thankyou for adding information to your argument. It succeeds where insults fail.
PT if I must protect you from George Washington's journalistic drivel - please read:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-22737548
Fearmongering is killing evacuees and this is the bigger threat to health. You and those who support George Washington are being irresponsible.
Peddle facts not fiction please.
In Rod We Trust!