Spying Is Meant to Crush Citizens’ Dissent, Not Catch Terrorists

George Washington's picture

Preface: NSA Lied When It Said It Doesn’t Record Content

Last week, Washington Post reporter Barton Gellman -  who has reviewed many of the documents leaked by Ed Snowden – told PBS’ Frontline:

Who’s e-mailing whom? Who’s texting whom? Who’s doing Skype calls with whom? They’re collecting a lot of information, a lot of content of phone calls. They’re actually recording the voices— not for all of our calls, but for a lot of U.S. telephone calls.


Okay, now you're ready for the main story ...

Spying Is Meant to Crush Citizens’ Dissent, Not Catch Terrorists

While many Americans understand why the NSA is conducting mass surveillance of U.S. citizens, some are still confused about what’s really going on.

In his new book, No Place to Hide, Glenn Greenwald writes:

The perception that invasive surveillance is confined only to a marginalised and deserving group of those “doing wrong” – the bad people – ensures that the majority acquiesces to the abuse of power or even cheers it on. But that view radically misunderstands what goals drive all institutions of authority. “Doing something wrong” in the eyes of such institutions encompasses far more than illegal acts, violent behaviour and terrorist plots. It typically extends to meaningful dissent and any genuine challenge. It is the nature of authority to equate dissent with wrongdoing, or at least with a threat.


The record is suffused with examples of groups and individuals being placed under government surveillance by virtue of their dissenting views and activism – Martin Luther King, the civil rights movement, anti-war activists, environmentalists. In the eyes of the government and J Edgar Hoover’s FBI, they were all “doing something wrong”: political activity that threatened the prevailing order.


The FBI’s domestic counterintelligence programme, Cointelpro, was first exposed by a group of anti-war activists who had become convinced that the anti-war movement had been infiltrated, placed under surveillance and targeted with all sorts of dirty tricks. Lacking documentary evidence to prove it and unsuccessful in convincing journalists to write about their suspicions, they broke into an FBI branch office in Pennsylvania in 1971 and carted off thousands of documents.


Files related to Cointelpro showed how the FBI had targeted political groups and individuals it deemed subversive and dangerous, including the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, black nationalist movements, socialist and communist organizations, anti-war protesters and various rightwing groups. The bureau had infiltrated them with agents who, among other things, attempted to manipulate members into agreeing to commit criminal acts so that the FBI could arrest and prosecute them.


Those revelations led to the creation of the Senate Church Committee, which concluded: “[Over the course of 15 years] the bureau conducted a sophisticated vigilate operation aimed squarely at preventing the exercise of first amendment rights of speech and association, on the theory that preventing the growth of dangerous groups and the propagation of dangerous ideas would protect the national security and deter violence.”


These incidents were not aberrations of the era. During the Bush years, for example, documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) revealed, as the group put it in 2006, “new details of Pentagon surveillance of Americans opposed to the Iraq war, including Quakers and student groups“. The Pentagon was “keeping tabs on non-violent protesters by collecting information and storing it in a military anti-terrorism database”. The evidence shows that assurances that surveillance is only targeted at those who “have done something wrong” should provide little comfort, since a state will reflexively view any challenge to its power as wrongdoing.


The opportunity those in power have to characterise political opponents as “national security threats” or even “terrorists” has repeatedly proven irresistible. In the past decade, the government, in an echo of Hoover’s FBI, has formally so designated environmental activists, broad swaths of anti-government rightwing groups, anti-war activists, and associations organised around Palestinian rights. Some individuals within those broad categories may deserve the designation, but undoubtedly most do not, guilty only of holding opposing political views. Yet such groups are routinely targeted for surveillance by the NSA and its partners.


One document from the Snowden files, dated 3 October 2012, chillingly underscores the point. It revealed that the agency has been monitoring the online activities of individuals it believes express “radical” ideas and who have a “radicalising” influence on others.




The NSA explicitly states that none of the targeted individuals is a member of a terrorist organisation or involved in any terror plots. Instead, their crime is the views they express, which are deemed “radical“, a term that warrants pervasive surveillance and destructive campaigns to “exploit vulnerabilities”.


Among the information collected about the individuals, at least one of whom is a “US person”, are details of their online sex activities and “online promiscuity” – the porn sites they visit and surreptitious sex chats with women who are not their wives. The agency discusses ways to exploit this information to destroy their reputations and credibility.


The NSA’s treatment of Anonymous, as well as the vague category of people known as “hacktivists”, is especially troubling and extreme. That’s because Anonymous is not actually a structured group but a loosely organised affiliation of people around an idea: someone becomes affiliated with Anonymous by virtue of the positions they hold. Worse still, the category “hacktivists” has no fixed meaning: it can mean the use of programming skills to undermine the security and functioning of the internetbut can also refer to anyone who uses online tools to promote political ideals. That the NSA targets such broad categories of people is tantamount to allowing it to spy on anyone anywhere, including in the US, whose ideas the government finds threatening.

Greenwald told Democracy Now yesterday:

People are aware of J. Edgar Hoover’s abuses. The nature of that series of events is that the United States government looks at people who oppose what they do as being, quote-unquote, “threats.” That’s the nature of power, is to regard anybody who’s a threat to your power as a broad national security threat.




There has already been reporting that shows that—the document, for example, in the book that shows the NSA plotting about how to use information that it collected against people it considers, quote, “radicalizers.” These are people the NSA itself says are not terrorists, do not belong to terrorist organizations, do not plan terrorist attacks. They simply express ideas the NSA considers radical. The NSA has collected their online sexual activity, chats of a sexual nature that they’ve had, pornographic websites that they visit, and plans, in the document, on how to use this information publicly to destroy the reputations or credibility of those people to render them ineffective as advocates. There are other documents showing the monitoring of who visits the WikiLeaks website and the collection of data that can identify who they are. There’s information about how to use deception to undermine people who are affiliated with the online activism group Anonymous.

Recent stories show that Greenwald is right:

And it’s not just spying …

The government may treat anyone who challenges its policies as terrorists.  For example:

The indefinite detention law may be used against American dissenters. Specifically, the trial judge in the lawsuit challenging the law had asked the government attorneys 5 times whether journalists like Pulitzer prize-winning reporter Chris Hedges could be indefinitely detained simply for interviewing and then writing about bad guys.   The government refused to promise that journalists like Hedges won’t be thrown in a dungeon for the rest of their lives without any right to talk to a judge.

Constitutional attorney John W. Whitehead writes:

No matter what the Obama administration may say to the contrary, actions speak louder than words, and history shows that the U.S. government is not averse to locking up its own citizens for its own purposes. What the NDAA does is open the door for the government to detain as a threat to national security anyone viewed as a troublemaker. According to government guidelines for identifying domestic extremists—a word used interchangeably with terrorists, that technically applies to anyone exercising their First Amendment rights in order to criticize the government.

Daniel Ellsberg notes that Obama’s claim of power to indefinitely detain people without charges or access to a lawyer or the courts is a power that even King George – the guy we fought the Revolutionary War against – didn’t claim.  (And former judge and adjunct professor of constitutional law Andrew Napolitano points out that Obama’s claim that he can indefinitely detain prisoners even after they are acquitted of their crimes is a power that even Hitler and Stalin didn’t claim.)

And the former top NSA official who created NSA’s mass surveillance system says, “We are now in a police state“.


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SameAsItEverWas's picture

Nu, so what else is new?

Go look up the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 and 1799.  During the 1800 presidential campaign that made Thomas Jefferson into our president over ten people were sent to prison for "bringing disrepute" on the federal government, its laws, or its president.  All of the imprisoned were members of the first and only time in our history that we had a true opposing political party, Thomas Jefferson's new Republican Party that opposed the Federalist ruling party which had pushed through the Constitution to protect the moneyed powers. 

It's a myth that this country was founded on a bedrock of liberty.  The lies have been repeated so many times that almost everyone thinks they're truth.

You won't go to prison for your speech of writings, but if you become too much of a pest you'll have a premature demise.

There's no reason to be upset about it, because that's the way it's always been.

Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture


The museum at Ground Zero tells the dark story of the 9/11 terror attacks with spectacular artifacts and exhibits. It pays heart-wrenching tribute to the innocents and heroes killed that day.

It also has a gift shop.


About 8,000 unidentified body parts are now stored out of sight in a “remains repository” at the museum’s underground home.

“Here is essentially our tomb of the unknown. To sell baubles I find quite shocking and repugnant,” said Horning, who also objects to the museum cafe.

“I think it’s a money-making venture to support inflated salaries, and they’re willing to do it over my son’s dead body.”


John Feal, a Ground Zero demolition supervisor who runs the FealGood Foundation for ailing 9/11 responders, said he understands the need to raise money for costs, including six-figure salaries for execs like CEO Joe Daniels, who takes in $378,000.

But Feal blasted the store’s opening Thursday, when only 9/11 relatives, rescuers and recovery workers were invited to visit. Those free visits will continue through Tuesday. The museum opens to the public Wednesday.

“These people are suffering, and they don’t need to be reaching into their pockets,” Feal said. “The museum could have gone six days without asking for money.”

The museum plans to fund its $63 million operating budget with admission fees and donations.

“All net proceeds from our sales are dedicated to developing and sustaining” the museum, reads a notice at the store and online, where items are also sold. “Thank you for helping to build a lasting place for remembrance, reflection, and learning for years to come.”

In a twist, a plaque says the store was “made possible through the generosity of Paul Napoli and Marc Bern,” partners in a law firm that reaped $200 million in taxpayer-funded fees and expenses after suing the city for nearly 10,000 Ground Zero workers.

The museum Web site lists the firm as having donated $5 million.

“They could have given that $5 million to the sick and suffering — their former clients,” Feal said.


hangemhigh77's picture

A museum to sustain the continuation of lies.  It sickens me.

caustixoid's picture

Hey, lighten up NYPost.  It's not a place for mourning, it's a place for celebration!  The WTC is the site of the greatest false flag in human history, which has allowed our great leaders to remove the few annoying rights we had left: privacy, free speech, habeus corpus...  We've been able to kill millions of innocents around the world based on events there.   WTC is the fucking Calvary of the NWO.

Of course people should certainly be allowed to buy trinkets and mementos and flags and shit.  In fact there should be a club where pols, spooks, oligarchs and generals can go snort blow off hookers asses -  "Larry's"?  Maybe they can incorporate the unknown remains into the dance floor.

They probably shouldn't be charging the public admission though.  A mere strip search would be much more fitting to the occasion.

Nehweh Gahnin's picture


You don't need to be actually suveilled for your dissent to be quashed; you just need to believe you are.

blindman's picture

and don't forget,
you also have to be concerned
about that, or not.
turn it around and make it
your opportunity to be f..g
heard. aka .. to tell the truth.
Tell the Truth - Derek and the Dominos
"tell me, who's been foolin' you ..."

ATG's picture

There's a revolution going on right under our noses.

Bets on how long MSM ignore it?


ATG's picture

Bingo GW.

Herewith 30 poignant examples:


realWhiteNight123129's picture

Want to dissent?

Wait for the TSY to go to 2.25 and start to short them again as they rally further. Get the proceeds and buyg Tobacco shares, your cost of carry is financed and you have done your duty for the cause while making money..... Wait enough and.... Kaboom!



litemine's picture

Not only should the Private Banks, (THE FED) be audited but so should the Federal Government.  They don't do what they are elected to do so lets make it transparent  who they do listen to.  It seems they are not Liable for their actions, and have placed not only the USA but the World into economical termoil and as it seems for personal profit.

When or how can the Government justify using Tax payers money to enrich the Elite? They create wars , they don't fight but send off our youth  and for what ,?  MOAR profits?  Do the Elected Officials have protection against Prosicution? The various levels of bureaucracy think they can control the masses.  When the tide turns, Heaven will not / can not help them from the LYNCH MOBS>.   They don't really see it coming, although leadership seems to be arming themselves for this eventuality. 

Al Huxley's picture

They listen to their owners - corporate lobby groups, banks and FIs, wealthy representatives of foreign countries.  No need for an audit to determine that, unfortunately.

the grateful unemployed's picture

they want to market you. in the old economy that meant going after your discretionary income, but in the new economy that means allocating resources. if you're sick they want to know if you're worth healing, if you're hungry they want to know if you're worth feeding, (if you're obese they might decide what you can eat and when), this is many ways the old soviet style of control they are crafting, but its 99% on the social level. if you contribute, (you're a government scientist for instance) you might get a nice house in a nice neighborhood. the question of dissent isn't one of polemics, rather its autonomy. you want to do your own research you aren't going to get a nice government grant, or house, or healthcare. they are going to reward the players, and leave the rest to hang on at the margins. all great civilizations come to an end this way, and one day the marginalized cross the rubicon.

dizzyfingers's picture

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." - Julius Caesar

cherry picker's picture

"Vote for me," he asked.  A young guy, in his late thirties.

"Why?" I queried.

"I will make a difference."

"That's what you all say," I replied, "Till you get in.  It will change you and you will be no different than the others.  I am not voting for that reason. There is no integrity left."

mumcard's picture

The consent of the governed has been withdrawn.

USA USA's picture

Does anyone know the story about Justice Roberts and his adopted children? (besides the nsa)

Psquared's picture

Our elected offices have become an attractive nuisance for narcissists and sociopaths because there is no accountability or truthfulness. It has become a job for life because it is an avenue to acquire wealth and power and social status.

d edwards's picture

The n$@ is the electronic gestapo; the IRSS is the enforcement arm (are you now or have you ever been active in the tea party? Your papers pleez.)

The Fourth Reich is here. Open your eyes!



RichardParker's picture


"Prisoners would not be able to tell when a jailor was actually watching or not. The premise ran that under the possibility of total surveillance (you could be being observed at any moment of the waking day) the prisoners would self-regulate their behavior to conform to prison norms."


q99x2's picture

You're right. The NSA works for the most dangerous terrorists that have ever existed.

They are like pedophiles. They won't stop until they are locked up.

ratpack1968's picture

Parasites must be careful not to kill the host or they too will perish.

Radical Marijuana's picture

Attempting to stop mass surveillance is as futile as attempting to stop weapons of mass destruction from existing. The science and technology genies are never going back in their bottles, unless civilization destroys itself so thoroughly that all knowledge about how to make and maintain weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance was annihilated. As long as sufficient scientific and technological civilization exists, then the knowledge base for weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance will continue to exist. In many ways, the political problems presented by weapons of mass surveillance are the SAME as the problems presented by weapons of mass destruction.

All of the arguments for the imperatives of going through paradigm shifts in the perception of politics to cope with weapons of mass destruction also apply to weapons of mass surveillance. In that context, this article by George Washington continues the theme of relative good analysis, followed by apparently collapsing back to impossible ideals, as the source for "solutions" to those problems. As long as civilization survives, we are never going back to not having weapons of mass destruction, and we are never going back to not having weapons of mass surveillance. We are going to be forced to go through adapting to technologies which have become trillions of times more powerful and capable than ever before in human history.

At this point, I would trot back out my favourite notions, such as that we need to look at the ways of thinking that enabled the paradigm shifts in sciences, which enabled the technologies such as atomic bombs and electronic computers to be built. We need an intellectual scientific revolution, to cope with the power of atomic energy and electronics, and everything else similar to those. That would take thinking in radically different ways than we think now. Therefore, I recommend perceiving our political problems in radically different ways, in order to be able to comprehend how more realistically possible solutions may be developed to cope with weapons of mass destruction, and mass surveillance, which better resolutions are not based on the impossible ideals, that we will somehow be able to go backwards, so that those weapons systems will no longer exist.

We should retool the fascist plutocracy, rather than try to stop it. We should move on past the agenda of the fascist plutocracy developing a global government, towards developing a better global government than the one they are planning. We need to integrate more creative alternatives into systems. The most crucial aspect of that must necessarily become alternative death controls and debt controls, which are what the weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance are now doing, in their old-fashioned, incompetent ways.

The power of atomic energy and electronics, et alia, are never going to disappear, unless civilization is so totally annihilated that knowledge about those things disappears. Otherwise, we will have to learn to cope with the existence of that knowledge, and the technologies which that knowledge makes possible. Primarily, that means understanding the purposes that direct the use of those tools better. Right now, we have combined money/murder systems, which have become globalized electronic frauds, backed by the force of atomic bombs. That has become a suicidally insane, if not almost a potentially omnicidal manifestation, because we operate our death and debt controls through the maximum possible deceits and frauds. My proposals are to make a greater use of information, enabling a higher consciousness, which therefore enables those technological tools be employed to serve different purposes.

It is NOT possible for the chronic political problems inherent in the nature of life to ever disappear. They have to be perpetually resolved. At present, that is being done according to the stupidest possible social habits, through systems which rely upon the maximum deliberate ignorance in order to "work," which is why our weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance are being deployed in the most absurd and asinine ways. So far, we are collectively stuck in the rut of established systems based on entrenched forms of enforced frauds, which are resisted by controlled opposition groups, which stay within the same bullshit frame of reference, when proposing "solutions" based on impossible ideals, which actually backfire in the real world.

Indeed, because of progress, through a series of profound paradigm shifts in sciences like physics and biology, we have been able to create technologies which are trillions of times more powerful and capable. Therefore, our real problems are now trillions of times worse than ever before in known human history, and, as long as civilization survives, those problems are headed towards becoming quadrillions of times worse, because the progress in science and technology has not stopped, but already what has been proven in laboratories is enough to keep that exponential growth going ... until it hits real limits, beyond human control, which could become severe, primarily due to human civilization operating through attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance, because the established systems are based on enforced frauds, which deny the truth about themselves, while their controlled opposition reveals some of that truth, but then, collapses back to impossible ideals, and the source for "solutions" which are not realistic, but rather, actually cause the opposite to happen in the real world.

We are STUCK with the chronic political problems inherent in the nature of life having to be resolved somehow. At present, we are STUCK inside of social and political systems which were developed as an expedient set of solutions, which benefit a few in the short-term, while screwing everyone else, including even themselves, in the longer term. The ONLY theoretically better solutions require paradigm shifts in the philosophy of science, which apply to politics, so that society can become more scientific. However, that means there must be a series of profound intellectual scientific revolutions, as the source of other revolutions in the combined money/murder systems.

That should be context in which we perceive the overall problems of weapons of mass surveillance and mass destruction. Those have become monsters, that threaten to go out of control and destroy those who made and maintained those weapons, as well as everyone else. However, asking for "privacy" and "security" back, in ways that depend upon those weapons no longer existing, or utterly not being used, is more of the same old impossible bullshit "solutions" which are both theoretically and practically impossible, because there ARE CHRONIC POLITICAL PROBLEMS, and there already are sets of expedient solutions for those PROBLEMS, which were developed during the history of Neolithic Civilization, which are what exists now, and only that which actually exists can actually evolve.

As a kind of transcendental poetry, I assert that it will take a transnational scientific community, building a translithic civilization, to cope with, or even survive, the existence of weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance. There is nothing whatsoever reasonable about proposing "solutions" which depend upon going backwards, to old-fashioned religions or ideologies. The only genuine solutions must be to go forward. What created the problems were a series of profound paradigm shifts in basic sciences. The only genuine solutions are to continue to go through more profound paradigm shifts in basic sciences, especially including human sciences.

The primary focus of the current problems regarding the existence of weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance are that the oldest and best developed social science was warfare, BUT success in warfare was based on deceits, which made that social science an extremely paradoxical "science" compared to all others. Similarly, economics is a science like warfare is a science, which is why successful finance became almost totally based on enforced frauds.

Therefore, at the present time, the weapons of mass surveillance and mass destruction have manifested as globalized electronic frauds, backed by the force of atomic bombs. The purposes to which those tools are being put have become psychotic, because of the degree to which they have become almost totally operated by professional liars and immaculate hypocrites, who are lying to themselves, just as much as to everyone else! The history of successful warfare based on deceits, and successful finance based on frauds, has engendered runaway social systems, whose central characteristic is evil deliberate ignorance towards themselves. Thus, more and more runaway insanities, in the form of weapons of mass destruction, and mass surveillance, which have gotten utterly lost in their own maze of almost infinite tunnels of looping deceits and frauds, creating a hyper-complex craziness.

Nothing has changed since the oldest book on The Art of War was written, starting off saying that success in war was based on deceits, and ending by saying that spies were the most important soldiers, EXCEPT that progress in science has enabled technologies available to do those things to have become orders of magnitude BIGGER, with those alive today having seen, within their lifetime, the progress in real technologies demonstrate millions, going to billions, going to trillions, and now being on the edge of quadrillions (as illustrated by the electronic "money" notational numbers, as well as the theoretical ability to mass murder many times more people than currently exist.)

While I totally agree that the primary purpose of weapons of mass surveillance is to crush citizens' dissents, I would like to suggest that we have not yet seen what may happen when the aristocracy of the workers, the transnational scientific community, is forced by their circumstances to become radicalized enough to push Neolithic Civilizations' social pyramid systems through to becoming toroidal vortices of transnational civilizations. The development of atomic energy, et alia, have nothing comparable in known human history. The only thing that compared was when life developed technologies like photosynthesis. In that context, coping with the existence of weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance must necessarily blow the lid off the top of the box of the social pyramid systems of Neolithic Civilizations, in one way or another, sooner or later, and, as time passes that is constantly become sooner, rather than later.

Psquared's picture

Reform is always possible. It doesn't matter how neolithic the structure it can be reformed if enough people agree. In it's day the Roman Empire was considered omnipotent. It was not. Neither is the American Empire. It may take shed blood, but it can happen.

Radical Marijuana's picture

My view, Psquared, is that "reforms" will not be possible until things get bad enough to force "revolutions" instead. Better reforms are theoretically possible. However, I believe that those will not be allowed to happen, and therefore, things will get worse, faster, until they get bad enough that those circumstances force more radical revolutions to happen. I do NOT like that conclusion, and I WISH that I was wrong. However, that is nevertheless what I believe at the present time.

VWAndy's picture

These tools wmd and spying can be used as non weapons. They by thier nature are niether good or evil. Its all in how they are used. They may not be recognized as a hammer is. But they are tools. You are right that the gennie cant be put back in the bottle. It might not take very long to come to grips on these issues. If we had the will to be honest about things.

 The real trick with tools is what you actually produce with the tools at your disposal. You do know that all it would take is one government employee like Snowden to let the keys out giving everyone the same view of the truth. Equal footing changes everything. The biggest pile of bullshit would get a lot smaller fast. It would kind of take that ww3 thing right off the table.

 Just sayin as contraptions go, misgiuded faith is all that keeps it rolling.

Radical Marijuana's picture

I agree, VWAndy, "misguided faith is all that keeps it rolling." In the past, lies backed up violence, now, violence backs up lies, since what mattered most was the physical power of the bullies, while their bullshit was secondary. ... Now, what matters most is their bullshit information.

IF enough people stopped believing in the bullies' bullshit, then the bullies may no longer have enough power to control other people. As the history of War Kings morphed into Fraud Kings, as physical power became less important than information, the controls were more about controlling how people think, than controlling their bodies, although, of course, controlling their bodies was always there to back up controlling their minds. However, IF enough people stopped believing in the biggest bullies' bullshit, and thereby were able to overcome their mistaken and "misguided faith," THEN the questions arise about what to have faith in instead?

Of course, I would answer that the scientific methods should be applied, regarding asking how we "know" things, and therefore, how confident we should be about the things we think we "know" ???

So far, in my opinion, the vast majority of people who are revealing reasons why we should not have faith in the bullies' bullshit are what I call reactionary revolutionaries, or Black Sheeple, whose agenda is, after showing that the bullies bullshit, try to persuade people to go backwards to believing in some other old-fashioned bullshit, in the form of some old religions or ideologies. My view is that events are more and more going to demonstrate that we should NOT have faith in the bullies' bullshit, and the fact that their faith was "misguided" will become more blatantly obvious to more people in the future ... HOWEVER, what then will they turn to ???

Of course, that is where I keep on repeating that we need a profound series of intellectual scientific revolutions in the basic ways that we think about politics, that are comparable to the ways we thought differently in areas like the special theory of relativity, and quantum mechanics, etc., which were the kinds of thinking that made weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance possible to build.

I recognize that that view is so extremely unpopular, if not almost unfathomable, by the vast majority of people at the present time, that it appears practically pointless to bother to articulate it. Currently, the way society STILL works is that it is dominated by the established bullshit of the biggest bullies, while the only significant opposition is controlled to stay within the same frame of reference of that kind of bullshit. But nevertheless, more and more people are forced by their worsening circumstances to start thinking more radically, and then they discover that they had "misguided faith."

Tragically, then the controlled opposition still mostly attempts to lead them BACKWARDS, to return to having another form of old-fashioned "misguided faith." Hence, the dynamics of the situation are the entrenched established systems, which have overwhelming advantages to keep on promoting their kinds of bullshit, while there are some fringe opposition groups, or fringe of the fringe groups, which point out that the bullies are bullshitting, but then, those controlled opposition groups recommend their preferred bogus "solutions," and finally there is the Fringe of the Fringe of the Fringe, that MIGHT be recommending changes which are not merely more old-fashioned political bullshit?

In my opinion, one of the worst and most difficult political problems is the degree to which the opposition is controlled, because that means that people who finally wake up to the fact that they had some "misguided faith" then still continue to be misguided!

It is hard to imagine enough people thinking more scientifically, in an intellectually radical way, which is consistent with the scientific methods themselves, so that they do NOT continue to have excessive "misguided faith" about the particular dominate stories that science may be currently telling, but rather, have a more open-minded attitude towards the ideal that science is an on-going process, which can enable it to overthrow it own favourite stories, and start telling different stories instead. Science, as a social enterprise, shares all the same problems that all other societies do. The history of scientific revolutions was reviewed by Thoma Kuhn, and scientific revolutions that apply to politics are going to repeat that pattern more intensely than ever before! THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FOR THE SUCCESSION GENERATIONS TO PASS, IN ORDER TO ENABLE NEW IDEAS TO EMERGE.

What I am saying is that, overall, we need a more scientific society, to cope with the technologies that science has already enabled, and which are likely to become even more astonishing in the future, IF civilization survives through that process. Therefore, the problems of overcoming the "misguided faith" in the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories then turn to overcoming a bogus return to other bullshit, or indeed a collapse to bullshit science, which is NOT itself scientific. THE PROBLEM IS THAT ALL THE PROBLEMS ARE ON EXPONENTIAL GROWTH CURVES, WHICH DO NOT APPEAR TO ALLOW ENOUGH TIME FOR PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH PARADIGM SHIFTS, WHICH USUALLY TAKE GENERATIONS TO OCCUR!

I assert that the philosophy of science is the most important thing for a technological society. However, I also assert that the advances in postmodernizing science are converging back to ancient mysticism. We need ways that revolutions in the philosophy of science can appreciate and assimilate the other old-fashioned religions and ideologies. I propose that recognizing ENERGY IS SPIRIT puts us on the path to have a better faith, which is not as misguided, because that enables us to develop a more open-minded understanding of energy, and so, spirit, which could evolve, and become more self-aware, enough to perhaps evolve better ecologies.

I tend to believe that more and more people are going to be waking up to the fact that they had "misguided faith." However, currently I do not have much reasonable hope that they will then develop a better, more scientific faith. Rather, I tend to think that I am wasting my time working on that problem, since what it looks like is going to actually happen is that times of Peak Insanities are approaching, when enough people discover that they actually had "misguided faith," by going through psychotic breakdowns of their world view, which will be associated with collapses into crazy chaos of the established systems.

Personally, I tend to despise and dislike most of the controlled opposition just as much as I do the establishment, because I regard the controlled opposition as attempting to lead people back into "misguided faiths," after those people realize that they actually previously had "misguided faith." Merely because the controlled opposition groups are working towards waking up more people to the ways that the biggest bullies were bullshitting does NOT mean that those controlled opposition groups are not then still promoting their own preferred bullshit. Indeed, the vast majority of "alternatives" are merely alternative bullshit, and it would still be "misguided faith" to believe in that alternative bullshit, as to believe in the established bullshit social stories.

I assert that we need a more scientific society, that holds a more genuinely scientific attitude towards its own "sacred" social stories. However, as far as I can tell now, that is obviously such a Fringe Cubed position as to have no politically practical point. Instead, the main real themes are the interaction between the established bullshit, and their controlled opposition bullshit, which are not working towards any genuinely better resolutions of our problems, but rather, are combining to drive us through social storms and Peak Insanities, because people who may well lose faith in the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories are not turning to better stories, but rather then to be returning back towards other kinds of old-fashioned bullshit stories instead.

In my opinion, that pattern is typified by the response to Snowden's evidence of the operations of weapons of mass surveillance. Those who oppose those operations tend to propose impossible solutions, which are not going to happen, or would actually backfire to the degree that they did. I repeat my view that we can NOT go backwards, to a time when those technologies were not possible. We must go forwards, through the existence of those tools, which should be based on better understanding the purposes to which those are used for.

I agree with you VWAndy, that better resolutions of those problems might be possible, "If we had the will to be honest about things." However, in my opinion, our society is almost totally dominated by deep dishonesties, not only through the establishment, but also through and through the controlled opposition groups too. Therefore, having the political will to "be honest about things" might as well be on the Dark Side of the Moon.

Right now, the path we ARE on is for weapons of mass destruction and mass surveillance to be directed to be used in ways which continue to approach Peak Insanities, while stopping that appears impossible ... to the degree that I certainly feel that my bothering to try to point that out seems quite practically useless, although still theoretically valid.

VWAndy's picture

I think a change in tactics on our part is called for. Only the truely productive are worthy of spending time on. They are the only ones capable of comprehending this in the first place. Secondly they are the real leaders of thought. Propaganda is just broadcast at much higher volumes. The golden pinis crowd of clowns still trying to find out whos dick is longest are also a waste of time.

 The people that base beliefs that fit completly within the boundries of truths. Them be the ones.

 The modest. They are easy to work with too.

semperfi's picture

but there are always always always counter-measures, counter-counter-measures, ad-infinitum

mumcard's picture

The trace buster buster.

novictim's picture
Spying Is Meant to Crush Citizens’ Dissent, Not Catch Terrorists


Drifter's picture

Citizens ARE terrorists in their view.


bunnyswanson's picture

And if the citizens are placid, they have a plan.  So disappointed in this childish display of "leadership."  Those who are at the head of this ship are taking us over the edge, with them in it! and are making certain nothing goes wrong, pushing it forward with false-flag staged events that hundreds of people are aware of and yet, stand by as their country and her people are dismantled and rendered impotent.  FUCKING NUTS



Under this plan for the deployment of Operation Garden Plot, the use of CIDCON-1 will be mandatory. This direct support of civil disturbance control operations is to be used by the Army, USAF, Navy, and Marine Corp. with an airlift force to be comprised of MAC Organic Airlift Resources, airlift capable aircraft of all other USAF major commands, and all other aerial reconnaissance and Airborne Psychological Operations. This is to include control communications systems, aeromedical evacuation, helicopter and Weather Support Systems.
If any civil disturbance by a resistance group, religious organization, or other persons considered to be non-conformist takes place, under Appendix 3 to Annex B of Plan 55-2 hereby gives all Federal forces total power over the situation if local and state authorities cannot put down said dissenters.
Annex A, section B of Operation Garden Plot defines tax protesters, militia groups, religious cults, and general anti-government dissenters as Disruptive Elements. This calls for the deadly force to be used against any extremist or dissident perpetrating any and all forms of civil disorder.
kedi's picture

The power of blackmail can be eroded by people being less hypocritical, holier than thou. Realising that people can have interesting hobbies, viewpoints, lifestyles, and still be competent, moral and hardworking in their field. Decent.

The mob metality of public opinion is self defeating. Individuals with all their foibles, herding, blindly following those who fake the norm, while trampling those brave enough to present their real ideals and selves.

We are lied to because we want to believe we live up to the lies we demand to be told about ourselves. Vote for those who continue to lead us into self delusion.

If we were more honest with ourselves. Realistic about being human. We would be stronger, the powers that be, would be weaker.

Boxed Merlot's picture

The power of blackmail can be eroded...


Unfortunately, rather than admission to a specific conduct which may or may not be "acceptable", those in authority who may have actual verifiable dirt are busy not only dumbing down the general populace but redefining "normal" behavior to include their own current or past misconduct.  There truly are types of misconduct which should prevent some individuals in specific fields of authority, (particularly those charged with being able to use lethal force), from continuing to serve, and rather than "blackmailing", these persons should be relieved of their duties.

This would absolutely include anyone who has even attempted to offer cover / sanctuary / protection or anything to a person holding a public office in exchange for withholding information from the public that should legitimately be considered detrimental to maintaining the public's trust.

Like it or not, this goes back to the fundamental idea that all people are inherently evil, although capable of acting in virtuous ways.  Those in public office are and should be held to a much higher standard of conduct.  They have taken their (s)elected positions voluntarily, and if they don’t want or care to be scrutinized to a higher degree, then stay home!


bunnyswanson's picture

What I see happening is a small group of people have the microphone.  The religious zealots get air time.  Extremists are few in number.  What happens behind closed doors is worth little more than nothing in the big picture, as long as no one gets hurt.  Seriously, if the politicians are under duress due to bad choices, let it be known, I forgive and forget!  We can all do this.  It's a human reaction to pleasure that we all have and those who do not just don't get it and never well.  It's only sex.

SoDamnMad's picture

Seems they are using this spying to bust one hell of a lot of senior military officers out. I wonder if they scan the generals communications for phrases like "violation of the Constitution" and then if there is any sexual hanky-panty the officers get offered an "early retirement".   Nothing like a hollow military to aid in controlling the population.  Gotta run, I hear a drone overhead.

Reaper's picture

An insidious danger of the spying is that the spies are trusted as honest reporters. What if they falsely report what you said or did? Stalin's spies falsely reported on Stalin's enemies at the show trials. http://www.trotsky.net/trotsky_year/moscow_trials.html Who would then stand with or for you?

The government is always lying. Why wouldn't the government spies also lie? Trust is the greatest weakness of the sheeple.

kedi's picture

It often would not require lying. Just selective release of facts. Not releasing other facts. One negative can be magnified. Especially with the help of a media to emphasize it enormously, while ignoring the positives.

Radical Marijuana's picture

Lying by omission is one of the most successful ways of lying. The public schools and mass media are specialists in lying by omission. Unless people who were told lies by omission make an effort to investigate, then they will continue to presume that they know the truth, while actually they have been severely tricked to believe in lies, due to being told only parts of the truth.

Telling part of the truth does not appear to be a lie, unless, or until, the person told already knows, or later discovers, more of the whole truth. (Proving that a lie by omission was a lie is difficult, because what was actually said was true. The lie was only in not telling the whole story.)

Most journalists know the saying "follow the money," but few apply that to follow the money to its SOURCE. The way that the mainstream schools of economics operate illustrate their crucial lie by omission, when they deliberately do not follow the money to its SOURCE. They ways that mainstream economists skirt around, and diminish the significance of the SOURCE of the money supply is abstractly absurd and astonishing, although understandable, if one follows the money to its SOURCE in the history of funding of schools of economics!

The few people who do somewhat follow the money to its SOURCE, still tend to not go all the way there, because then the conclusion is that money is measurement backed by murder. If one follows the money to its SOURCE, one arrives at the banksters, who are making that "money" out of nothing as debts, as the supreme enforced fraud, which dominates everything else. In practice, the police and military forces are working to back up the banksters' frauds, by providing the legalized violence to enforce the legalized lies.

However, that social system is based on the schools and mass media operating intense lying by omission operations in those regards, by almost never following the money to its SOURCE, and certainly they tend to not go into the heart of darkness of the Source of the Source. Therefore, the vast majority of people tend to be completely clueless regarding how the monetary and taxation systems really work. Furthermore, they tend to be so clueless that they do not have a clue how clueless they actually are.

It is almost impossible to imagine what would happen IF enough people began to understand how the monetary and taxation systems really worked, because they paid enough attention to FOLLOW THE MONEY TO ITS SOURCE!

In my opinion, our society has gone from not one individual in a million understanding that, up to about 1 in 1,000 ... or maybe even 1 in 100 people understanding that. However, unless we got past the point where more than 1 in 10 people were aware of following the money to its Source, would it maybe become possible to start changing things?

Obviously, Web sites like Zero Hedge are constantly working to try to increase the levels, say, to be optimistic, from the less than 1 in 100, to the more than 1 in 10 level. Indeed, most of the articles published on Zero Hedge are about pointing out the features of the massive lies by omission that are common throughout the mass media, and mainstream economists.

intric8's picture

Fuck the police? fuck the government?

FUCK the common citizen! Whining, potsmoking, leeching, shitless layabout american public dont know whats good for em. many dont give a rats ass either way! Fuck em. Might as well work em. Get as much as ya'all can now, boys. This whole shit show is a'crashin down soon, no how. Grab what y'all can and git while the gitn's good

Ignatius's picture

She's a cop, that's my bet.

Aussiekiwi's picture

lol, you guys are so easy to wind up, have another read and a think for awhile, I for one love the NSA, they are just like your friendly big brother looking after your interests and protecting us all from being murdered in our sleep by terrorists with funny sounding names or being blown up as we board trains and public transport. The fact that that has not occurred , well, virtually never in the US shows what a great job they are doing. I am sure if they were not looking over our shoulder we would have trains and buses being blown up every day, so it must be working, the evidence is all around you....well unless there really aren't any terrorists apart from the ones the US creates by strafing wedding parties and torturing people in rendition exercises, well..that would put an entirely different spin on it. Well must go and browse some porn.

intric8's picture

was ironic venting, i should have tagged it [satire]. I'm sure many in govt think that way

PeakOil's picture

Alas, some of us do not always recognize satire. I did, but a /s at the end never hurts.

Radical Marijuana's picture

Assiekiwi, either you were being sarcastic, or you are in desparate need of a crash course in false flag attacks having been some of the most important forms of terrorism. George Washington has written numerous articles about that issue in the past. This article above presumes that background research, which you appear to gloss over ...

Aussiekiwi's picture

radical M, what Sarcasm!, ME!  an ardent believer in the great American pie, a yankee doodle dandy, can do, we are number one, they hate us for our freedom, God loving American, defender of the worlds morals, because, well, we are special.....NOW thats sarcasm.