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“Pervasive, Pre-Criminal Surveillance Where the Government Wants To Watch What You’re Doing Just to See What You’re Up To ..."
When NBC’s Brian Williams interviewed Ed Snowden in Moscow last week, one of Snowden’s most interesting statements was left on the cutting room floor.
Specifically, the following statement was cut from NBC’s broadcast Wednesday night:
Now, we have a system of pervasive, pre-criminal surveillance where the government wants to watch what you’re doing just to see what you’re up to, to see what you’re thinking, even behind closed doors.
Indeed, a government expert told the Washington Post that the government “quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type.” (And see this.) And British and U.S. intelligence agencies have been recording millions of webcam videos … many of them nude videos from inside people’s homes. Indeed, the government is spying on virtually everything we do.
Moreover, the NSA is working on building a “pre-crime” computer system that uses artificial intelligence and massive amounts of data to try to predict how every thinks and what everyone is likely to do.
As we reported last year:
The government is currently testing systems for use in public spaces which can screen for “pre-crime”. As Nature reports:
Like a lie detector, FAST measures a variety of physiological indicators, ranging from heart rate to the steadiness of a person’s gaze, to judge a subject’s state of mind. But there are major differences from the polygraph. FAST relies on non-contact sensors, so it can measure indicators as someone walks through a corridor at an airport, and it does not depend on active questioning of the subject.
CBS News points out:
FAST is designed to track and monitor, among other inputs, body movements, voice pitch changes, prosody changes (alterations in the rhythm and intonation of speech), eye movements, body heat changes, and breathing patterns. Occupation and age are also considered. A government source told CNET that blink rate and pupil variation are measured too.
A field test of FAST has been conducted in at least one undisclosed location in the northeast. “It is not an airport, but it is a large venue that is a suitable substitute for an operational setting,” DHS spokesman John Verrico told Nature.com in May.
Although DHS has publicly suggested that FAST could be used at airport checkpoints–the Transportation Security Administration is part of the department, after all–the government appears to have grander ambitions. One internal DHS document (PDF) also obtained by EPIC through the Freedom of Information Act says a mobile version of FAST “could be used at security checkpoints such as border crossings or at large public events such as sporting events or conventions.”
The risk of false positives is very real. As Computer World notes:
Tom Ormerod, a psychologist in the Investigative Expertise Unit at Lancaster University, UK, told Nature, “Even having an iris scan or fingerprint read at immigration is enough to raise the heart rate of most legitimate travelers.” Other critics have been concerned about “false positives.” For example, some travelers might have some of the physical responses that are supposedly signs of mal-intent if they were about to be groped by TSA agents in airport security.
Various “pre-crime” sensing devices have already been deployed in public spaces in the U.S.
The government has also worked on artificial intelligence for “pre-crime” detection on the Web. And given that programs which can figure out your emotions are being developed using your webcam, every change in facial expression could be tracked.
While the government pretends that such pre-crime monitoring is meant to prevent terrorism, the fact is that it is instead being used to crush dissent.
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From what I understand, drug sniffing dogs are more like the gift tat keeps on giving. Cops can get dogs to do almost anything they want. Oh look Skippy farted, you have weed in your car. I'm gonna have to go through your car.
Drug detection dogs are much more likely to give a false positive indication if the suspect is black or brown. It's not because the dogs are racist either. Instead, the dog is reading the handler's body language, and the handler's body language is telling the dog to indicate the presence of drugs when the suspect is black or brown.
In effect, the dogs aren't sniffing out drugs at all. Instead, they are merely doing what they think their handlers want.
Handler beliefs affect scent detection dog outcomes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3078300/pdf/10071_2010_Artic...
What will they detect if we all face the camera and give them the finger?
They'll think they're #1!
"What will they detect if we all face the camera and give them the finger?"
...My very first thought!
Does it detect violators of the Constitution? If so, all of DC would be locked up.
Not if they behave and follow orders.
"Well...it goes something like this your honor. I had this thought ya see. It started with a 'well, what if we try...' and suddenly I was getting zapped, convulsing, foaming at the mouth...you name it.
And then I was fine...and completed my idea about using air dryers and soap foam dispensers instead of the current "heavy on paper and real soap" like we do now.
Let....me...tell...you! I had some crazy thoughts going through my head on the ride home from work that time! I really thought 'Proctor and Gamble are on to me!'
It's weird...sorry for bringing it up."
thought criminals beware
Brian Jennings...maybe Brian Williams. Jennings was a long snapper and tight end for the 9ers. He probably would have done a better job with Snowden though.
Paranoia big destroyer.
Where's Sylvester? Judge Dredd lives!
As with lie detectors, it sounds like this "pre-crime" system will only catch you if you feel nervous or guilty. True sociopaths are like stealth bombers to this sort of technology....kinda defeats the purpose.
"True sociopaths are like stealth bombers to this sort of technology....kinda defeats the purpose. "
Sociopaths have gained complete control.
Here's the dangerous part
http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx
This is something few people realise.
If they want you, they can get you.
This is no made up story. As I was getting in my truck after working on my local jail I accidently hit Siri on my phone she said I have no results for can I get out of jail without bail. It would have had to pick that off the speakers in visiting room. I was outside of the building no one was near me
Where's your ID badge, you need it to get in, you know, to prevent terrorism....
Well, if I were a terrorist, I would have a perfect ID badge clearly displayed......
"Where's your ID badge"
Badges? We aint got no badges, we don't need no badges, I don't have to show you any stinking badges!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ
Yes, but most of them already work at the NSA or other governmental agency. They want to catch you
Well, the tribal alpha-males surveilled the rest of the tribe continuously so that they didn't do things he didn't approve of.
So much for being more evolved.
I get that this is actually tyranny. But like you say, it is nothing new.
So what are the positive? It cannot be all bad.
On the other side of the coin you could view it like having a buddy there to keep you in check. We all have beastly urges and depraved impulses at various times in our lives. So what if this does actually help to prevent those urges and impulses from being manifested?
Say I have the perverse urge to buy a child sex slave from India through an online marketplace. But then I think about the fact that my online movements are being watched over by my NSA buddy. And I think 'nah, not this time'. In that case, my buddy has saved me, and put a dent in the sick sex slave industry.
With many more such examples, we have to consider both sides of the story. The pros and the cons.
I think we all like to think that it is good to have a buddy to keep us out of trouble. Plato argued that the friend owes it to his buddy to deprive him of his weapons when he is clearly in a state of rage and irrationality, so as to prevent his buddy from doing anything stupid. So maybe these NSA guys are actually doing some good.
What do you think?
In answer to your last question: I think you are a complete, and I mean complete, MORON.
.
Don't take the saying "my brother's keeper" to mean that you must keep your brother under surveillance.
So you want a mindless, heartless fascist organization for a buddy to keep you from doing something evil? That's one fucked-up mind you have there. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself.
He is paid to promote the panopticon. They want to see the rebuttals so they can refine the narrative. He is grown up, and he does take responsibility. These people are simply banal evil incarnate.
I wish I was paid to post on this site. But really, we know every coin has two sides. I was just presenting a side. That's all. I thought people on here were open-minded enough to not get all emotional about honest debate.
As I said, Plato made the argument that a good friend keeps his friend's weapons away from him when he is acting angry and irrational. So he implied that a man will not always be able to restain himself. Now Plato is one of the greatest philosophers of the West, and was fiercly opposed to tyranny. So was Plato being paid by the NSA? Come on guys. Keep the debate on the content of the discussion.
Many people, unfortunately many of those in charge, live with an inordinate fear that somebody else may be "getting away with something" and so there needs to be a pervasive spy state, neighbor spying on neighbor, or the social fabric will disintegrate. Agencies like the NSA and the TSA pervert the social fabric, turning everyone against everyone else. That is what surveillance states do.
I think all such agencies should be defunded and dismantled. Call off your tired old ethics. Stop trying to defend the undefendable. Instead of being a meddling eavesdropper, respect the privacy of others.
You don't have to be "paid" to be a statist shill.
Plato could not even rationalize why Socrates killed himself... Why should we take his advice on anything? That is without even considering how he essentially argued for slavery to the state.
Anyone using Plato to support an argument regarding freedom or liberty needs their head examined.
I must be on the wrong site. I thought we were debating these concepts, not just making absolute statements. I was simply using Plato's argument to highlight that people other than 'paid' NSA agents argued that sometimes a man needs help to stop doing stupid things. If you can't see both sides of the coin then you are inherently biased. Whether you are biased for or against, doesn't matter. You have an imbalance in your world view.
So you deny that there is any possibility of any good coming from the NSAs programs? They are 100% bad, and always will be 100% bad?
If you really can't see any good then you guys are no better than preachers, blindly preaching your doctrine.
If anything, that attitude will only serve to alienate the good people who do work for the NSA. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
Mrpxsyrin - Police states are set up after government robs the people, well in this case Clinton admin set up the cops in advance if financial crimes. This level of survellince is used against dissenters. People dissent when they are ignored by those they pay to govern, robbed by them and then called criminals to be robbed some more. How many domestic terrorists has the NSA caught? Zero. Now be realistic how many acts of domestic terrorism have even been launched on American soil? I know of two which are Timothy Mcvey and that dude in the 70's that poisened Tylenol bottles.
So the whole country is in lockdown for the reasoning I described. Since this is a financial blog I should mention this level of a police state rattles investor confidence. No security means no investment also but on a scale to one to ten we are at a nine. One more step and you have Stalin or the Stasi. Enough for me to be having serious considerations on leaving America.
I am an innovator and always wondered about brain drain, wouldnt innovators be able to fix problems? Nope. Not when a powerful fascist government has concentrated wealth, avoids taxation and leaves tge only target left to tax being the middle class which tend to own small business and innovate.
As for pre-crime I see it as a giant tax/looting scheme from a police state. Since one may have considered something bad here is your fine for $500 and now on your record. At that point that individual is now a real criminal because the record was tarnished meaning collapse of income and propensity to commit crime to survive and also because if anything I think is bad makes me a criminal to be fined, may as well commit crimes. I see it as accelerating government crimes to rob the people and such become real criminals after, the opposite effect of the stated program.
I see the NSA and CIA butting heads on intelligence sharing over budgets. Department of Homeland Security and the NSA are budget items that are offer no value to the American people.
mrpxsytin, if you are in fact open-minded, then you will do yourself the favor of finding out what the state is, why it exists, and how it perpetuates itself. You will then understand why it is to be fought at every turn as the thoroughly antisocial insitution that it is:
http://books.google.com/books?id=3yURCxMXKhcC&printsec=frontcover&source...
http://www.barefootsworld.net/nockoets0.html
You want to debate your point about having big brother as a watchdog. I can't debate with stupid. You win. We are too far gone.
It sounds like you may be a peeping tom with hurt feelings. Maybe you should spend your time peeking through your neighbor's window and "if you see something, say something."
At ZH you won't find sympathy for nosy, prying, anti-privacy types, who would throw you in prison for personal vendetta [being offended by being "alienated" by bloggers] or on suspicion of a thought crime. Look at the leadership of the NSA, Alexander and Clapper. They are not "good people".
So stop your own preaching about the "goodness" of the NSA. If it were 99.9% bad, why would you bitterly cling to the .1% in its defense?
Perhaps mrpxsytin has a desire for some of us to pay a visit to room 101, You know a 'You will do what is required of you' moment...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3U83QLoATU
GOD is usually s'possed to do the job you are refering to mrpyxstin. you ever heard the version where the 'bringer of light' foregoes the tree and forces everybody to do 'good'? it was a bad idea under poindexter.... it is a bad idea now.