NSA Whistleblower: Snowden Never Had Access to the JUICIEST Documents

George Washington's picture

NSA Spying On Congress, Admirals, Lawyers … Content As Well As Metadata … Cheney Was Running the Show

NSA whistleblower Russel Tice was a key source in the 2005 New York Times report that blew the lid off the Bush administration’s use of warrantless wiretapping.

Tice told PBS and other media that the NSA is spying on – and blackmailing – top government officials and military officers, including Supreme Court Justices, highly-ranked generals, Colin Powell and other State Department personnel, and many other top officials:



He says the NSA started spying on President Obama when he was a candidate for Senate:


Many of Tice’s allegations have been confirmed by other government whistleblowers. And see this.

Washington’s Blog called Tice to find out more about what he saw when he was at NSA.

RUSSELL TICE: We now know that NSA was wiretapping [Senator] Frank Church and another Senator.  [That has been confirmed.]

And that got out by accident. All the information the NSA had back then – and probably many other senators and important people too, back in the 70s – they shredded and they destroyed all of that evidence.  As much as they could find, they destroyed it all. By accident, something popped up 40 years later.

And, in fact, they were asked 40 years ago whether NSA had bugged Congress. And, of course, they lied. They lied through their teeth.

NSA Has Hidden Its Most Radical Surveillance Operations … Even from People Like Snowden Who Had General “Code Word” Clearance

WASHINGTON’S BLOG: Glenn Greenwald – supposedly, in the next couple of days or weeks – is going to disclose, based on NSA documents leaked by Snowden, that the NSA is spying on all sorts of normal Americans … and that the spying is really to crush dissent.  [Background here, here and here.]

Does Snowden even have documents which contain the information which you’ve seen?

RUSSELL TICE:  The answer is no.

WASHINGTON’S BLOG: So you saw handwritten notes. And what Snowden was seeing were electronic files …?

RUSSELL TICE: Think of it this way.  Remember I told you about the NSA doing everything they could to make sure that the information from 40 years ago – from spying on Frank Church and Lord knows how many other Congressman that they were spying on – was hidden?

Now do you think they’re going to put that information into Powerpoint slides that are easy to explain to everybody what they’re doing?

They would not even put their own NSA designators on the reports [so that no one would know that] it came from the NSA.  They made the reports look like they were Humint (human intelligence) reports.  They did it to hide the fact that they were NSA and they were doing the collection. That’s 40 years ago.  [The NSA and other agencies are still doing "parallel construction", "laundering" information to hide the fact that the information is actually from mass NSA surveillance.]

Now, what NSA is doing right now is that they’re taking the information and they’re putting it in a much higher security level.  It’s called “ECI” - Exceptionally Controlled Information  – and it’s called the black program … which I was a specialist in, by the way.

I specialized in black world – DOD and IC (Intelligence Community) – programs, operations and missions … in “VRKs”, “ECIs”, and “SAPs”, “STOs”.   SAP equals Special Access Program. It’s highly unlikely Mr. Snowden had any access to these.   STO equals Special Technical Operations  It’s highly unlikely Mr. Snowden had any access to these.

Now in that world – the ECI/VRK world – everything in that system is classified at a higher level and it has its own computer systems that house it.  It’s totally separate than the system which Mr. Snowden was privy to, which was called the “JWICS”: Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System.  The JWICS system is what everybody at NSA has access to.  Mr Snowden had Sys Admin [systems administrator] authority for the JWICS.

And you still have to have TS/SCI clearance [i.e. Top Secret/ Sensitive Compartmented Information - also known as “code word” - clearance] to get on the JWICS.  But the ECI/VRK systems are much higher [levels of special compartmentalized clearance] than the JWICS.  And you have to be in the black world to get that [clearance].

ECI = Exceptionally Controlled Information. I do not believe Mr. Snowden had any access to these ECI controlled networks).   VRK = Very Restricted Knowledge. I do not believe Mr. Snowden had any access to these VRK controlled networks.

These programs typically have, at the least, a requirement of 100 year or until death, ’till the person first being “read in” [i.e. sworn to secrecy as part of access to the higher classification program] can talk about them.  [As an interesting sidenote, the Washington Times reported in 2006 that – when Tice offered to testify to Congress about this illegal spying – he was informed by the NSA that the Senate and House intelligence committees were not cleared to hear such information.]

It’s very compartmentalized and – even with stuff that they had – you might have something at NSA, that there’s literally 40 people at NSA that know that it’s going on in the entire agency.

When the stuff came out in the New York Times [the first big spying story, which broke in 2005] – and I was a source of information for the New York Times –   that’s when President Bush made up that nonsense about the “terrorist surveillance program.”  By the way, that never existed. That was made up.

There was no such thing beforehand.  It was made up … to try to placate the American people.

The NSA IG (Inspector General) – who was not cleared for this – all of a sudden is told he has to do an investigation on this; something he has no information or knowledge of.

So what they did, is they took a few documents and they downgraded [he classification level of the documents] – just a few – and gave them to them to placate this basic whitewash investigation.

Snowden’s Failure To Understand the Most Important Documents

RUSSELL TICE: Now, if Mr. Snowden were to find the crossover, it would be those documents that were downgraded to the NSA’s IG.

The stuff that I saw looked like a bunch of alphanumeric gobbledygook.  Unless you have an analyst to know what to look for – and believe me, I think that what Snowden’s done is great – he’s not an intelligence analyst.  So he would see something like that, and he wouldn’t know what he’s looking at.

But that would be “the jewels”. And the key is, you wouldn’t know it’s the jewels unless you were a diamond miner and you knew what to look for. Because otherwise, there’s a big lump of rock and you don’t know there’s a diamond in there.

I worked special programs. And the way I found out is that I was working on a special operation, and I needed information from NSA … from another unit. And when I went to that unit and I said “I need this information”, and I dealt with [satellite spy operations], and I did that in the black world.  I was a special operations officer. I would literally go do special missions that were in the black world where I would travel overseas and do spooky stuff.

Cheney Was Running the Show

WASHINGTON’S BLOG: You said in one of your interviews that Dick Cheney ordered the intercepts that you found in the burn bags [the bags of documents which were slated to be destroyed because they were so sensitive].

Is that right … and if so, how do you know that?

RUSSELL TICE: I did not know one way or the other until I talked to a very senior person at NSA who – much later – wanted to have a meeting with me. And we had a covert, clandestine style meeting. And that’s when this individual told me that the whole thing was being directed and was coming from the vice president’s office … Cheney, through his lawyer David Addington.

WASHINGTON’S BLOG:  It sounds like it wasn’t going through normal routes?  It’s not like Cheney or Addington made formal requests to the NSA … through normal means?

RUSSELL TICE: No, not normal at all. All on the sly … all “sneaky pete” under the table, in the evening when most NSA employees are gone for the day. This is all being done in the evenings … between like 7 [at night] and midnight.

NSA Is Spying On CONTENT as Well as Metadata

WASHINGTON’S BLOG: And from what you and others have said, it’s content as well as metadata?

RUSSELL TICE: Of course it is. Of course. [Background. But see this.]

NSA Spying On Journalists, Congress, Admirals, Lawyers …

RUSSELL TICE: In 2009, I told [reporters] that they were going after journalists and news organizations and reporters and such.

I never read text of Congressman’s conversations. What I had was information – sometimes hand-written – of phone numbers of Congressmen, their wives, their children, their staffers, their home numbers, their cellphone numbers, their phone numbers of their residence back in Oregon or whatever state they’re from, and their little offices back in their state.

Or an Admiral and his wife, and his kids and his staffers …

The main thing I saw more than anything else were lawyers and law firms. I saw more lawyers or law firms being wiretapped than anything else.

These are the phone numbers I saw written.  And then I would see those numbers incorporated into those lists with the columns of information about the phone number, and the serial number and the banks of recorders and digital converters and the data storage devices.   I could see handwritten phone numbers and notes, sometimes with names, sometimes not.

Snowden and Greenwald’s Whistleblowing Was Done In the Right Way

RUSSELL TICE: If Mr. Snowden would have had access to VRK, ECI, SAP, STO (and a few others that I will not mention here), and he released them en masse to the press, I would volunteer to shoot him as a traitor myself.

But this is not what he did.

He gave up JWICS info that he insisted be vetted for sources and methods, and true damage to national security. Mr. Greenwald and company should be congratulated on the restraint that they have shown with the JWICS documentation that they have in hand via Mr. Snowden.

Postscript: When Tice started blowing the whistle on NSA mass surveillance in the early 2000s, the NSA all of a sudden decided that Tice was “crazy”. As Tice told us:

For many years, I was the only NSA whistleblower in public.


And what they did is call me in – 9 months after my routine psychological evaluation – which I passed with flying colors, like every other one I’ve had in my entire career, passed with flying colors.


They called me in for an “emergency” psychological evaluation, and they declared me nuts.

I am a fairly good judge of character, and I found Tice to be humorous, self-deprecating in a healthy and light-hearted way, and consistent on the facts. Tice talked about how he was a pretty darn good football player in junior college, but no star athlete. He talked about how one reporter tried to make him out to be James Bond with leading man looks, and he thought that was ridiculous. We shared some normal “guy talk” about women. Tice has a little anger at the way the NSA tried to whitewash the mass surveillance that he uncovered (wouldn’t you be?), but he wasn’t enraged or over-the-top. Tice is also a patriotic American, not a subversive. Specifically, we spent a long time talking about the importance of the Constitution and the rule of law. In other words, Tice seems “oriented to reality”, completely sane, normal, ethical and bright to me.

And the following facts are more important than my personal impression:

Given the way that the NSA has been repeatedly caught in lies about its surveillance programs – and the way that it has attacked whisteblowers – I believe Tice over the NSA.

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bugs_'s picture

i suppose it is possible that snowden's co-workers and "friends" didn't have access to everything - so socialling them and putting them at risk didn't get it all.  i hope that makes his former co-workers and former friends feel better about what he did to them.

bingobob's picture

A beautiful combination of brave new world and 1984. If you acknowledge that there is this degree of control and you think the market will crash you are a fool. They can't crash the market because you all still have guns!

falak pema's picture

this NSA stuff is getting terribly freudian. Eyes wide shut stuff. 

What with "fuck u EU", now "juicy secrets"; we are into Pompeification of the Oligarchy's secret antics.

JRobby's picture
 "Cheney Was Running the Show"

What a news flash. When will be rid of this demon?

lakecity55's picture

All major powers practice espionage.

It seems right now the USA has better technology. I would not put the Russians too far behind, they produce excellent mathematicians. China is no lightweight, either, nor Israel.

The problem Americans have to solve is how to reform their government to uphold its own Law, place Citizenship back on the supreme pedestal it deserves, and prosecute the lawbreakers.

What torques me off is that the US is supposed to uphold a higher ideal, and we are failing.

It is going to take a major shock to awaken citizens to take action.

notadouche's picture

Not wanting to hijack G.W. post nor take anything a way from his articles that, as usual, are informative and thought provoking.   Not wantingto make this about me but I just had to say thank you for the kind thoughts and well wishes.  It's actually been cathartic as I have not shared the results with anyone, it's still new to me.  I have no interest in ruining what's left of my time with a bunch of sadness or pity with those close to me.  I certainly want nothing to do with being a guinea pig ingesting some chemicals that I would never put in my body while healthy.   Thanks again.  The rumors of the degradation of ZH posters have been greatly exaggerated.   

Ignatius's picture

Politicians come and go.  The bureacracies (CIA, FBI, DIA, etc.) run the show.  Cheney -- evil bastard that he is -- understands this so he works directly with them to achieve mutual objectives.   The most dastardly example of this was the Anthrax attacks which were a direct threat to the Legistlative branch to pass the Patriot Act "or we'll kill ya".

Good post, GW.  Thanks.

lakecity55's picture

So they have the video of Backdoor Barry and Reggie.

No wonder the guy is a Gumby.

AdvancingTime's picture

Thanks to information leaked by  Edward Snowden we know the "black budget" last year was a massive 52 billion dollars. This is the money used in "secret" spy operations, and it is enough to send shivers down the back of those that cherish privacy.

This is beginning to look like the society we have read about the totalitarian society of Oceania described in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. In Orwell's novel, all citizens of Oceania are monitored by cameras and are fed fabricated news stories by the government. More on this subject in the article below.


g'kar's picture

Nothing happened in Benghazi, nothing...move along. What does it matter now.

blindman's picture

the banksters have been at institutionalizing
the rape of technology, governance and populations since the
beginning of time. they call it "money

dreadnaught's picture

This just smacks of "Access Envy"

novictim's picture

If you do not understand the danger of our Republic's Government being able to side step the limitations set on it by the 4th Amendment then you are part of the problem.


This technical slight of hand where the NSA pretends that the collection of Meta Data, the information that encapsulates who you know and when you communicate among other details, is not an illegal act, and is mundane, is the equivalent of smearing lipstick on a pig.

These Goons at the NSA are insulting the intellence of the citizentry.  You can just hear the verbal snear in their responses.

Oligarchs control this Government and they have trashed all our lives and our liberties.. 

kurt's picture

There is a careful artificiality about these laundered posts. Something like a Mega-Hoover explains a lot, not a vacuum but the former director of the FBI. Yes, Cheney is a good guess. There is still the persistent STENCH of Cheney. Can't any of you organized victims stop him as Hoover should have been stopped long ago? Sure, they've probably got pictures of all kinds of perversion, most of which was baited and hooked. Why should you, by virtue of your oppression and shame, fail your country that needs you, now, more than ever?

Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I would ask Barnaby Jack but he is dead....

NoWayJose's picture

Clearly it takes many more worker bees to gather the nectar, so that would be the easiest thing for Snowden to see. What Snowden (and Congress and the President) doesn't get to see is how the data is actually being used and who is using it. It should be clear that the data is not for 'security' - so how many key votes (Boehner?) or decisions (Syria?) were influenced or controlled by the people holding this data?

SAT 800's picture

How many key votes---" all of them, obviously. They learned this from J.E.Hoover; who gave Lyndon Johnson the files on JFK; so he could flash them at JFK in his hotel room and force his way on to the ticket as vice president.  A freak with a history like Obumbo is perfect for their purposes; with twenty years of sleeze files on him; he's not going to stray far from the program of the day, is he ?

notadouche's picture

Obama stated he would "make no apologies"  for the deal he made to free Bergdahl because he was still" someone's son".    There are questions about his loyalty to his country that need to be vetted.  I make no claims as to know the truth about this man's behavior and will certainly not be the one to condemn nor hail Mr. Bergdahl.   I don't believe the uninformed have the right to act as though they know nor do I believe they have a right to slander or besmirch a man's character based on heresay.  

However, I would note that Mr. Obama appears to be able to freely pick and choose whose children he cares about depending on....????  Who the hell knows really.  I believe Snowden is someone's child too.  How many people's lives has Obama destroyed that were someone's child, father, mother, brother etc... either because the were a political enemy, didn't agree with him, wanted to expose some wrong doing or happen to get in the way of personal agenda?

The Boston cop that he went after without fact that resulted in the ridiculous "beer garden" summit.  The Russian "friend" of the Boston Marathon deal that was in the middle of a 3 hour interrogaton when he suddenly became too hard for all of those authority figures ot manage which resulted in him being shot in the head?  Indiscriminate "collateral damage" caused by targeting 1 or 2 top enemy leaders in whatever  "stan" land of the moment?  The journalist being intimidated on any given day for daring to investigate or inform the public.   

I'm too old to count at this point but in my lifetime I cannot remember a decade that has been more dangerous or intellectually dishonest than this past one. Bush was what he was but at least the Times, Post, Huffington, CNN, CBS, etc... were digging for the truth,  investigating and informing the citizens without regard to politics.   Apparently they did not fear retribution for either.  Now either they are afraid or complict or both which makes it so much more dangerous for the present and future of this country.  

Where are all the oily birds and animals from the Gulf?  The Fukushima fallout?  Gitmo is still open and no one cares.  Patriot Act is never questioned or criticized but when Bush implemented it the Times, rightfully so, went balistic.  Now, not so much.  Where is the outrage from the media?  Are there no more Woodward and Bernstein's out there?  70 years ago similar actions that America's government and media are taking led to D-Day and the obedient German citizen, media etc... were being touted by their govenrment as being "a good Nazi".   

I'm curious to see how America's equivalent to the "Hitler Youthy" will be disguised as.  "Common Core" perhaps?  I don't know, just asking.

In the late 60's early 70's actions being taken like "COINTEL PRO" were being, criticized, picketed and actively defied by an entire generation that ironically has gone on to set up some of the very same tactics today and justify it.  We used to be taught to know our history in order to avoid being victimized by it.  Now I see it is being learned and studied in order to perfect the most hideous actions the "elites"  in order to control and profit from it, not better society.   The "noncomformist" now demand conformity and condemn the nonconformist.  I'm not surprised by much but I have to admit to being surprised by the actors pulling these levers today.  

Lastly, and I preface by saying I could care less who is married to whom and do not believe the government has a role in denying anyone the right to marry.  In fact I wish they would get out of the way of divorce.   Why can you get married on a whim in a matter of hours but in many states you are forced to have a 6-9 month waiting period before you can actually begin the process, then you need to pay for the services of a judge and generally at least one lawyer.  

Now back to the point,  for decades the main narrative in blocking gay marriage has been politics and the disapproval of the conservatives and the church.   In reality it was the powerful insurance lobby because of the increased cost of coverage to spouses that had never been calculated in their actuary tables.  Does anyone think it a coincidence that gay marriage is being made legal in state after state, regardless of the feelings of the local or state or church community with all it taking is a simple stroke of the pen by federal judges just a few short months  after Obamacare became the law of the land?  Call me cynical but I know  a quid pro qou when I see it.   Insurance company's  "Bra'er Rabbitt" moment , the old "don't throw me into that briar patch" trick by the insuracnce companies whose public narrative was how horrible Obamacare would be for them and their profits even though they drafted most of the law.  I'm sure the insurance companies fought tooth and nail against the part that makes it illegal not to purchase insurance.  

I've been given my death sentence by doctors so I won't be around to see how this all plays out but I may be the lucky one as I just don't see how this ends well for anyone not already extremly wealthy or one of the political elites.  Death may not come fast enough for me come to think of it.   I bid everyone Good luck though I hope it all works out for everyone.  




moneybots's picture

"Where are all the oily birds and animals from the Gulf? The Fukushima fallout? Gitmo is still open and no one cares. Patriot Act is never questioned or criticized but when Bush implemented it the Times, rightfully so, went balistic. Now, not so much. Where is the outrage from the media?"


Their guy is in office.

JohnFrodo's picture

There are some who believe Woodward was a CIA asset. Watergate was all about keeping Nixon from telling the truth about JFK. Did the same plumbers who removed JFK's head break into the Watergate in the most slapdash curious intented burglary ever?

Z_End's picture

Concerning Bob Woodard.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Woodward

Early life and career[edit]

Woodward was born in Geneva, Illinois, the son of Jane (née Upshur) and Alfred Enos Woodward II, chief judge of the 18th Judicial Circuit Court. He was a resident of Wheaton, Illinois. He enrolled in Yale University with a Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC) scholarship, and studied history and English literature. While at Yale, Woodward joined the Phi Gamma Delta fraternity and was a member of the prestigious secret society Book and Snake.[3][4] He received his B.A. degree in 1965, and began a five-year tour of duty in the United States Navy.[citation needed] In his navy career Woodward served in the Office of Naval Intelligence, where he was a part of a group which briefed top intelligence officials; at one time he was close to Admiral Robert O. Welander, being communications officer on the USS Fox under Welander's command.[5][6]

After being discharged as a lieutenant in August 1970, Woodward considered attending law school but applied for a job as a reporter for The Washington Post, while taking graduate courses at the George Washington University. Harry M. Rosenfeld, the Post's metropolitan editor, gave him a two-week trial but did not hire him because of his lack of journalistic experience. After a year at the Montgomery Sentinel, a weekly newspaper in the Washington, D.C., suburbs, Woodward was hired as a Post reporter in 1971.[citation needed]


moneybots's picture

"Did the same plumbers who removed JFK's head break into the Watergate in the most slapdash curious intented burglary ever?"


Oswald was his own plumber.

dexter_morgan's picture

+1000. You make very excellent points. I have constantly asked my liberal friends why they were so critical, rightfully so in most cases, of Bush's actions while in office, yet they find no fault with this president that has continued and amplified many of those same actions and programs.

They are wrong and misguided regardless of who the puppet at the top is.


Best wishes, may your remaining days be as pleasant as possible.

dreadnaught's picture

stop whining.....Bush was a POS and so is Obama

TheMeatTrapper's picture

That was one of the finsest posts I've ever read here; in fact, it was far more truthful and cogent than the vast majority of the published posts. 

Thank you sir - and best of luck to you and your journey.

notadouche's picture

No, thank you.  

I wish I would've taken the time to edit the thing but time is the one thing we can't buy, bargain for, steal, or print more.  If Bernanke was a true genius he would've figured out how to create "time inflation" through mass printing.  

I'm finding it to be true that when faced with certain life facts you end up regretting what you didn't do moreso than what you did do.  You just can't see it when you are trying to get through the struggles of each day.  Most of those struggles mean nothing but in the moment,  for some reason they seem so damned important.  

If this is the only lesson in life you learn, then I advise you learn it well and live it every damned day.  Makes that sappy song "Live like you were dying" by Tim McGraw not nearly so sappy.  

I'm not the first and certainly won't be the last so not only am I not special I am just one of the vast majority that no one will ever know or care that I existed.  The fate of the 99%.   Funny thing is I could just as easily die tomorrow getting hit by a bus so...

blindman's picture

what is your prognosis? or should I ask
what is your doctor's prognosis, if I can?

notadouche's picture

inoperable brain tumor so I guess if I say something stupid I can always blame it on the tumor.

bingobob's picture

Watch this video about cancer defences and at the very least you can know what foods to not eat in order to not speed up tumor growth.




Then I would watch these videos







I would get the life extension two per day supplement omega 3s and Juice like hell plus get some amazing grass antioxidant berry powder from amazon. Dr Blaylock has a very good book on cancer. Don't give up people have recovered from worse cancer than you have before.


Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Try hyperbaric oxygen and eat exclusively seeds/nuts and non-starchy veg.  Just because a doctor can't operate, doesn't make it incurable.




You may also want to venture to Colorado or Washington and obtain/treat yourself with this:


Pardon my french, but fuck those doctors, we need awake minds like you here and present with us.

blindman's picture

the tumor is nothing to receive any blame
as you are, will be, done with it entirely.
that is my prayer and conviction.

blindman's picture

let me wish you all the power of this and any other universe
to fight when you choose and slide when you choose and to win
every time, every time without exception. what your body can
make it can take away, that is the rule. it happens everyday.
there is no time, only eternity, and we are all here, forever.
that thing you wanted and still want to do. do it.
life will find the right way, you are no douche.
Majid Ali, M.D. * Sleep Apnea Increases Risk of Cancer and Death from Cancer * ALI ACADEMY
ozone, oxygen check it out.


Terminus C's picture

See you on the other side my fellow 'Hedger.

Anusocracy's picture


Please look into signing up for cryonic suspension. Death is a horrible waste.



Fasting vs dietary restriction in cellular protection and cancer treatment: from model organisms to patients.
Lee C1, Longo VD.
Author information

The dietary recommendation for cancer patients receiving chemotherapy, as described by the American Cancer Society, is to increase calorie and protein intake. Yet, in simple organisms, mice, and humans, fasting--no calorie intake--induces a wide range of changes associated with cellular protection, which would be difficult to achieve even with a cocktail of potent drugs. In mammals, the protective effect of fasting is mediated, in part, by an over 50% reduction in glucose and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-I) levels. Because proto-oncogenes function as key negative regulators of the protective changes induced by fasting, cells expressing oncogenes, and therefore the great majority of cancer cells, should not respond to the protective signals generated by fasting, promoting the differential protection (differential stress resistance) of normal and cancer cells. Preliminary reports indicate that fasting for up to 5 days followed by a normal diet, may also protect patients against chemotherapy without causing chronic weight loss. By contrast, the long-term 20 to 40% restriction in calorie intake (dietary restriction, DR), whose effects on cancer progression have been studied extensively for decades, requires weeks-months to be effective, causes much more modest changes in glucose and/or IGF-I levels, and promotes chronic weight loss in both rodents and humans. In this study, we review the basic as well as clinical studies on fasting, cellular protection and chemotherapy resistance, and compare them to those on DR and cancer treatment. Although additional pre-clinical and clinical studies are necessary, fasting has the potential to be translated into effective clinical interventions for the protection of patients and the improvement of therapeutic index.

My philosophy - Outlive the bastards.

Best wishes.

blindman's picture

How Murray Rothbard Changed my Mind on War | Thomas E. Woods, Jr.

Radical Marijuana's picture

Thanks for that good article!

I agreed with that overview:

"Snowden Is a Good Guy ...

But There's a LOT that He Doesn't Know.

Snowden Never Had Access to the JUICIEST Documents"

That was the situation which I always presumed had to be the case, to explain the apparent "Lies By Omission." It is nice to see an article that fills in more of the blanks in the previous picture, although I still think it is like a multi-dimensional chess game, most of which levels are not visible to me ...

Meanwhile, the bigger picture continues to be that "national security" has become a runway psychotic concept, which has primarily enabled the worst gangs of organized criminals and terrorists to take effectively privatized control over the "national security" apparatus. From 1947 onwards, the existence of weapons of mass destruction has driven MADder and MADder responses to that, with no end in sight. Being able to back up lies with violence was the foundation of the social pyramid systems, which have been amplified in size trillions of times by advances in technology, within the life time of those still alive today. Nothing is new, except the paradigm shifts in sciences which enable those technologies, such as weapons of mass destruction, and now weapons of mass surveillance.

I repeat the most important points, made in the first book on The Art of War, thousands of years ago, which starts by saying that "success in war is based on deceits," and ends by saying "spies are the most important soldiers." The problem is that those basic truisms, which were the foundation of the structure of civilization, have encountered technologies trillions of times more powerful and capable, but otherwise have not adapted to that at all, other than by developing more and more runaway psychotic "national security."

THE BASIC THEME CONTINUES TO BE THAT THE FORCE OF THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT PRIMARILY BACKS UP THE BANKSTERS' FRAUDS. At present, that kind of "national security" is based on the threat of the globalized suicide of civilization, if not quickly, by world war getting going by "accident," then still more slowly, because everything that civilization does, under systems of electronic frauds, backed by weapons of mass destruction, has become automatically more insane every day!

The deep dilemma continues to be that there MUST necessarily be some death controls at the core of human ecology. However, the murder systems that dominated the real death controls were developed through the history of warfare to operate on the basis of the maximum possible deceits, upon which foundation was built the financial systems operating the maximum possible frauds. Those combined murder/money systems were developed more in America than anywhere else, although they were also thoroughly developed as globalized privatizations.

"National security" has become the runaway manifestation of civilization operating through social pyramids, whereby the pyramidion people must rule by becoming more and more blatantly ridiculous professional liars and immaculate hypocrites, and so, the people they rule over cannot help but tend to notice that:


Snowden, The NSA and a Crime of High Treason

It remains to be seen what happens to the death control systems after technologies become magnified by many orders of magnitude. So far, there is not the slightest hint of any sufficient theoretical response to the basic problems that that is IMPOSSIBLE to sustain. One of the most basic laws of physics, which can be referred to as L, L squared and L cubed, is manifesting when technologies within a social system are amplified trillions of times. The established social pyramids can NOT survive that happening to them. However, we are living in the situation where the first generation born into that predicament is still alive today.

disabledvet's picture

Buy Oracle.

Larry Ellison realized 40 years ago you could build and program a machine that was better than Dick Cheney or David Addington.

We're still in the first inning of the Data Domain...and the NSA is still a nothing burger in it.

The capital raised for Facebook alone makes the Federal Government look small.

The VP and SoS offer a couple million bucks for War with Russia?

That doesn't even cover what Elon Musk is spending in a day.

Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Parallel construction and compartmentalization are the key concepts here.

But to add a little gas to the fire concerning parallel construction and compartmentalization, the raw data has to be formated for each parallel system architecture and with numerous systems across all the agencies there is pretty much no standardization since you are dealing with individual groups not knowing what the left hand is doing or the right hand each building their systems independent of each other so it is not as well oiled and efficient of a machine as they would like you to believe.

disabledvet's picture

"Open source." The Federal Government are just a piece of what is a puzzle far larger than...certainly the people who work for them.

Google "open source car" and start edumacating yourself.

Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I hear you but open source as a base doesn't mean the end products are compatible think something like Lotus Notes vs Microsoft Office vs Open Office etc.When people are building careers/empires internally they don't share easily since it can cost you promotions, etc. You don't need to keep building the wheel over and over and over and over for the same thing and the way it structured that is exactly what happens.

Since we are off on a tangent concerning open source cars.


And fuck Tesla and Musky when you can build your own electric car for about $4000


Fix It Again Timmy's picture

If you plan on pissing on Cheney's grave that is a laudable act but be careful that there aren't any cops around because if you get caught pissing in public you will be classified as a registered sex offender...

VWAndy's picture

NSA = cockblockers

what's that smell's picture

gosh. and bitcoin?

i can encrypt my fiat and do whatever i want with it and hide it from the NSA, IRS, FED, CIA, FBI?

max keiser, who the flapp'n jesus juice do you think you're kidding?

Westcoastliberal's picture

Perhaps Mr. Cheney is still running the show today from "Site R"; threatening to release the "NSA control files" as blackmail for anyone who "steps out of line".

It sure would explain all the neo-con shit Obama continues to inflict on Americans and the world.

Jstanley011's picture

Right. That 'splains it exacty. The Messiah doesn't mean it; he's being blackmailed by Cheney. After all, it's not exactly duck soup, saving the planet and all. Just go and try it for yourself sometime.

Bazza McKenzie's picture

Sure, and Cheney wanted Obama to exchange Bergdahl for 5 Taliban.