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No Wonder Impeachment Was “Off the Table”: Democrats Approved Mass Surveillance and Torture … and the Subsequent Cover-Up

George Washington's picture




 

Pelosi Was Briefed On – and Covered Up – NSA Spying On Americans

When a teen asked Nancy Pelosi last week why she supports unconstitutional NSA spying, Pelosi responded that the NSA lied to Congress about what they were doing, and she didn’t know:

But Pelosi was actually briefed on – and approved – illegal mass surveillance by the NSA.

Last November, high-level NSA whistleblower Bill Binney confirmed to Washington’s Blog that Pelosi was briefed on NSA’s mass surveillance of Americans:

WASHINGTON’S BLOG: Is CBS right that you tried to warn Congress 10 years ago?

BILL BINNEY: Yes, first to Diane Roark (House senior staff assigned to monitor NSA) in late 2001, then, to a House Intel Committee member. Diane also talked to Porter Goss [then-chair of the House Intelligence Committee] and Nancy Pelosi [ranking member on the Intelligence Committee at the time] about it in the same time frame. This to me was the obvious reason Nancy said (when she was speaker) that impeaching George W was off the table. Cause she was part of it from the beginning.

Last week, Diane Roark confirmed that this was true:

WASHINGTON’S BLOG: Bill Binney explained in a recent interview that Pelosi refused to impeach Bush because she herself had signed off on mass NSA surveillance of Americans. Can you confirm Mr. Binney’s statement from your experience?

DIANE ROARK: Yes, Nancy Pelosi was one of the “gang of four” because she was the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee in 2001 and for some time after that. So she gave the go-ahead to the Administration along with the others.

She now claims that the administration withheld information from her. However, I sent her numerous memos updating her as I learned more and giving background on the system. I did this through her staff director, who assured me he had given them to her. Her office claimed to the New Yorker in 2011, however, that she had not received the memos.

See this for Roark’s explanation of what the mass surveillance is really about, and Congress’ refusal to demand accountability or controls.

Pelosi Also Complicit In Torture

Pelosi was also complicit in torture. And yet she lied about that, also.

Nancy Pelosi claimed in 2009:

The Bush administration did not inform Congress that it had waterboarded detainees in classified briefings, after the agency had already done so…

 

Pelosi told reporters that the administration officials only told her and those in a classified briefing in the fall of 2002 that they believed they had the legal authority to do so, based on Office of Legal Counsel memos which have recently been released by the Obama administration.

 

“In that or any other briefing…we were not, and I repeat, were not told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation techniques were used,” said Pelosi. “What they did tell us is that they had some legislative counsel…opinions that they could be used, but not that they would.”

However, that is likely untrue.

As noted by the above-linked article at Huffington Post:

Her assertion contradicts a recently released Senate committee report that cited CIA records to claim that senior members of Congress in both parties were briefed on the waterboarding, which had already been done to detainee Abu Zubaydah.

Moreover, the Washington Post wrote in 2007:

Four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

 

“The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,” said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange…

 

The CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge. With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi…

 

“Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing,” said Goss, who chaired the House intelligence committee from 1997 to 2004 and then served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006. “And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement.”…

 

Abu Zubaida, the first of the “high-value” detainees in CIA custody, was subjected to harsh interrogation methods beginning in spring 2002 after he refused to cooperate with questioners, the officials said. CIA briefers gave the four intelligence committee members limited information about Abu Zubaida’s detention in spring 2002, but offered a more detailed account of its interrogation practices in September of that year, said officials with direct knowledge of the briefings.

 

The CIA provided another briefing the following month, and then about 28 additional briefings over five years, said three U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge of the meetings. During these sessions, the agency provided information about the techniques it was using as well as the information it collected.

Other Top Dems Also Complicit

It’s not just Pelosi … top Democrats like Harman and Rockefeller also knew all about spying and torture, and approved … or at least covered it up.

Cover Up of 9/11 Torture and Unreliable Testimony

Veteran reporter Robert Scheer wrote in the San Francisco Chronicle in 2007 that Pelosi and Harman hid from the 9/11 Commission and the American people the fact that the interrogations of 9/11 suspects were videotaped, and that the alleged “confessions” of those held at Gitmo were wholly unreliable. They could have stopped the whole farce cold — but chose to go along with it.

By way of background, the CIA’s torture program ended up deceiving the 9/11 Commission. Specifically, the 9/11 Commission Report was largely based on third-hand accounts of what tortured detainees said, with two of the three parties in the communication being government employees. The 9/11 Commissioners were not allowed to speak with the detainees, or even their interrogators. Instead, they got their information third-hand. The Commission itself didn’t really trust the interrogation testimony… yet published it as if it were Gospel.

New York Times investigative reporter Philip Shenon Newsweek noted in a 2009 essay in Newsweek that the 9/11 Commission Report was unreliable because most of the information was based on the statements of tortured detainees.

As NBC News reported:

  • Much of the 9/11 Commission Report was based upon the testimony of people who were tortured
  • At least four of the people whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators information as a way to stop being “tortured.”
  • One of the Commission’s main sources of information was tortured until he agreed to sign a confession that he was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO READ
  • The 9/11 Commission itself doubted the accuracy of the torture confessions, and yet kept their doubts to themselves

Indeed, the type of torture used by the U.S. on the Guantanamo suspects was of a “special” type. Senator Levin revealed that the the U.S. used Communist torture techniques specifically aimed at creating false confessions. And see these important reports from McClatchy, New York Times, CNN and Huffington Post.

No Wonder Impeachment Was “Off the Table”

No wonder Democrats “took impeachment off the table.” They were wholly complicit in Bush and Cheney’s crimes.

 

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Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:53 | 4843833 MickV
MickV's picture

Yeah, and NO WONDER the criminals in Congress attempted to change the penalty for TREASON.

Congress (ALL OF THEM) have committed TREASON for allowing a foreign enemy to inhabit the White House.

 

Obama was born, and still is a British subject-- because his father was a British subject.

 

Get a clue GW--- you coward.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 06:56 | 4843762 Contrarian View
Contrarian View's picture

You will never lose by betting that every word a Democrat says, including "and" and "the", is a lie.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 02:37 | 4843569 q99x2
q99x2's picture

They are globalists. They don't work for the United States of America.

That's what globalists do.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 06:19 | 4843728 doctor10
doctor10's picture

I doubt Pelosi or her husband had much of a choice when the NSA files ahowed up on their desks. If they tried to pretend they did-I'm sure a real live MIB would have knocked on the door to personally present any alternative scenario.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:08 | 4843495 drunkenlout
drunkenlout's picture

So, when we water-board Dick Cheney, we'll only get a false confession?  (Looking forward to it anyway.)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:19 | 4842155 Notsobadwlad
Notsobadwlad's picture

Ummm ... Like ... Duh'huh!

The communists/socialists (self-named progressives) most likely actually believe that their philosophy is best for all (and especially them). To get there, though everyone will have to give up all of their free will, individuality and ambitions and just lay and become slaves for their parasitic overlords. Oh, and they will have to murder billions to get to their utopia... but the end justifies the means, right? (NOT! ... and that is one of the tests.)

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 00:28 | 4843420 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

What No Fascists in USA?

You still believe the fairy tale that money has not influence on politicians?

You think after being corrupted with money seeking either republicans or democrats aren't part of some big network/cartel/Racketeering/Economy Fixing Scheme?

What you don't mind the influence of the Government Contracted called the Fed that is stealing your Interest from your bank savings account or Money Market or CDs?

You don't minds seeing nice people around you floundering in low wages, loss of benefits & wages, loss of pension, Steady Increase of Taxes & Cost of utilities, No fight for your gasoline prices, No Lobbying for you at all except for the efforts of the AARP, No feeling that these people are just playing games with your life?

It is Fascism. Federal Contracts are Subsidies or Partnerships with corporations. Privatization is often the Federal Government paying 2-3 times more for services it performed before when the government owned the faculties.

Just like Privatizing Torture, Privatizing Mercenaries, Privatizing Camp Installations in War... the Whole Federal Government is available for Privatization including VA Medical Treatment, Social Security, Medical Care under Medicare/Medicaid, and the US Post Office.

- We have Fascism
- We Have Socialism like Medicare, Social Security
- We have Capitalism
- We don't have Free Markets
- And there is no way to have Free markets without Regulations, Auditing, Independent Auditors, and Independent Ratings Agencies, and Separation of Savings & Loans from Commercial and investment banking
- Ask someone from MF Global how Jon Corizine Treated them (He was a capitalist who lost his mind to greed)
- Ask someone from Peregrine Finance
- Ask someone who worked for ENRON
- Ask someone from WorldCom
- Ask Someone from Tyco
- Ask someone from QWest

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:14 | 4842113 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

The only man to go to prison in the US over the torture scandal is the former CIA officer   and whistle blower ,John Kirialou.He got a 30 month prison sentence and lost his pension

His letters from prison, Letters from Loretto are worth reading

dissenter.firedoglake.com/tag/letter-from-loretto

 

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 17:45 | 4842067 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

 

The Reds and Blues play for the same team, and you're not allowed in the Stadium.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 16:54 | 4841912 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

I actually go back to Bush the 1st on this - as 'Bush 1' really was the first to let the the 'intelligence' gatherers expand their role.  Like mice and roaches, once they gain a foothold, they multiple like, like, like... the NSA.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 06:51 | 4843758 doctor10
doctor10's picture

"It" precedes even the Kennedy Asassination-although that is the first public glimpse of "it"  And you're right, because many believe GHWB was involved in that!!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 16:23 | 4841841 failsafe
failsafe's picture

thanks GW been away for a while but glad to return to see follow through rather than the commercial news tendency to report information that is popular but... well... probably not even informaton.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 15:55 | 4841771 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

George ! Hat Tips for Your Yeoman Work(s)

I realize you are like the Tylers and working to inform the masses +1000

Thanks   -

AC :  Longtime ZH / GW Reader

Worst President Ever? You Might Be Surprised
Tue, 06/10/2014 - 15:54 | 4841768 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Pelosi.  OMG, California - out of all the folks you have out there, this is the best you can do?  Can you not see how she is lying in this clip?  And, after 5 friggin' years - still blaming GWB....shameless twit.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 14:24 | 4841379 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

In the BushCo era you were considered a traitor if you didn't bend to the will of Dick Cheney/Karl Rove  neo-cons. Politicians kept there jobs by voting for FREEDOM and wrapping themselves in the flag.I know, I was considered a traitor.

The Obama administration shows that there is no difference when it comes to control of the People.

Pandor's Box is addicting.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:19 | 4840876 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Of course they were, and Boehner & Reid were briefed on the Bergdahl trade before it occurred, not only that they took a cut, they were also briefed on Bengazi and the Fast & Furious, we have a bipartisan criminal govt, they also consented to the CIA's "Arab Spring" Syrian invasion and the war with Russia in Ukraine for Russian gas.

We gotta looter criminal govt. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:56 | 4840790 Kokulakai
Kokulakai's picture

We're gonna' need a lotta' rope.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:49 | 4840764 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

to rewind this, Pelosi was not House Speaker until 2006 when the Dems won control in the midterms (thanks to Daily Kos) she came in promising to stop funding for the war in Iraq, and to run the lobbyists out of Washington. but rewind a bit more, when fellow Blue Dog Gary Condit was forced from office over a false accusation that he had murdered an intern with which he was having an affair (the three main BGs were Pelosi, Harmon and Condit. Condit sat on the Intell Comm, but was not a voting member) Harmon was later appointed to the Intell Comm, and was later fired by Pelosi for taking money from AIPAC. the Blue Dogs were created during the Clinton presidency, moderate Dems who could reach across the aisle, they were pivotal in allowing the congressional GOP to ratchet up pressure on the nofly zone over Iraq. without eight years of the continued bombardment, its unlikely Bush could have invaded Iraq at all. after Clintons grand move to the middle, in his second term, he fell into impeachment, after running a somewhat unpopular Nato war in Bosnia, and authorizing the bombing of a pharm plant in Ethiopia, he got word that Bin Laden was working in Afghanistan and asked for Congressional approval to take them out. the GOP refused, and when Al Gore failed to get elected it set the stage for Bush and 9/11. none of this would be happening without 9/11...

as it turned out Levy's murder was carried out by a Salvadoran Immigrant member of their large gang, but the transcripts of the trial are still sealed. Levy had travelled to Israel and she also worked with Fed bureau of prisons where she had contact with Tim McVeigh. when the Bush people were planning their presidency, they made the tactical decision to go after the moderates (blue dogs). once you discredit the moderates the only voice left on the democratic side was old school liberals, a debate the GOP would have a better chance of winning. to that degree a certain amount of intimidation was used, loosely calling them the DemocraT party, it was all out political warfare for the first four years, with Karl Rove making the calls and Dick Cheney leading the troops, and Jack Abramoff and Tom Delay raising money. it was an attempted complete takeover of the political system. it failed out of hubris and poor judgement. even up until the moment of the 2012 election there was talk that bush would cancel the elections and declare an emergency and sit for a third term. after all he had ruled the country for eight years without any public support.

to that end they merely crashed the economy, to poison the ground for the next president. goldman sachs gave twice as much money to obama. and he quickly said it was time to move forward. the smell of fear still ripe over the peoples house. press people needed security clearances and only bush could give them that.

to rub their noses in it they let Jeff Gannon walk into a press conference with no credentials at all. that was just about the end of this country. Gannon is likely a product of MKUltra. he worked on hatcheting Tom Daschele in SoDakota. MKUltra was taking young boys out of Boys Town, the uppermidwest is the center of this. read the Franklin Coverup.

so when you say Pelosi is complicit on some level with the NSA spying program you have just a teeny bit of the tail of the beast in your hand. now of course we revile Pelosi and understandably so. cowardice is not an endearing quality in defense of the constitution.

 

 

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 00:50 | 4843463 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

So Yeah,

We have Capitalism.

But more clearly:

1) We have Capitalism
2) We have a mixed Economy with capitalism & socialism
3) We have Fascism with Money In politics, Money Sponsoring Justice department Seminars, Money Sponsoring Congressional Trips, Dinners, Lunches, Plane Rides, Hotels, Weekends, Conferences, Seminars, Rent Stabilized Apartments in Washington DC, and financial management services.

So yeah, we have socialism, capitalism, and fascism. It is Clear.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:31 | 4840665 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Well that all depends on the meaning of the words "SPYING" "TORTURE" and "PERJURY" is is

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:12 | 4840594 ChargingHandle
ChargingHandle's picture

Who is a bigger liar Pelosi or Reid? both of these sub-human monsters lie daily for their own personal gain. If I lived in their districts I would absolutely move.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:01 | 4840314 DeficitAlchemist
DeficitAlchemist's picture

They key phrase - 'From 9/11 on'

 

Read: 'That self inflicted mass murder of own citizens carefully covered in blow by blow fashion by our 24 hr media stooges who were tele-prompted all the accomplices within minutes to direct sheeple rage in a manner that ensured our predetermined goal of citizen repression'

 

 

F**Cken little witch..and psychopath

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 08:29 | 4839954 kurt
kurt's picture

I know it's a waste but I'm going to "anti-vote" this coming election.

I will only vote for a non democrat or non republican and when there is no choice, a non encumbent.

Basically, throw out as many of the bums as possible. I know you idiots who still vote parties will neutralize my effort. Perhaps enough of us will make a difference.

Remember:

No Dem                        No Repub                        No encumbent

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 08:44 | 4840009 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

The best vote is no vote

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 09:26 | 4844144 SystemOfaDrown
SystemOfaDrown's picture

The best vote results in kicking any Democrats and/or Republicans to the curb.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:38 | 4840206 CH1
CH1's picture

The best vote is no vote

Yes.

The whole game is barbaric and a galaxy-sized waste of energy.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 05:33 | 4843675 grekko
grekko's picture

I don't need to vote.  In my district, we have Diebold to do that for us.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:30 | 4840919 logicalman
logicalman's picture

If you vote you are complicit in the crimes of government.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 08:26 | 4839946 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

The coverage of "Watergate 40 years after" that aired on PBS got me thinking about how President Nixon did not resign right away after five men were arrested for trying to break into the offices of the Democratic National Committee at the Watergate hotel and office complex. It took a long time for the dots to be connected and the temperature to rise.

A comparison of the times, 1972 and 2012, and how society has changed leads me to ponder some of the issues that brought about his demise. I can state without a doubt that a President would no longer have to hire "burglars" to break into an opponent's headquarters, the technology of today is far more sophisticated.

Today a President with his own White House propaganda machine, and a few well placed lies or misleading information placed out on Sunday talk shows could have the same effect on an election that skullduggery would of had in the past. Media is a powerful tool. More on this subject in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/05/watergate-40-years-later.html

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:25 | 4843511 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Dude, there are many waves that spread out from Watergate.

The whole way of business for the CIA changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Permanent_Select_Commi...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_President%27s_Commission_on_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Jewels_%28Central_Intelligence_Agen...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedzi_Committee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_denial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes%E2%80%93Ryan_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes-Ryan_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Assistance_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Amendment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boland_Amendment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_Oversight_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Assistance_Act_of_1974
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case%E2%80%93Church_Amendment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Spitz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow_Factory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCCI_Bank (just used for an era) Funding to criminals and dictators, BCCI handled money for Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, Hussain Mohammad Ershad and Samuel Doe.[9] Other account holders included Medellin Cartel and Abu Nidal.[10]
CIA funding to the Afghan Mujahideen and the Contras

1) CIA uses Proxies
2) CIA Creates Corrupted Banks to launder money, move money, or send fund to dictators
3) No One Is Responsible, there is no person aware of what is going on, the players operate in a cell with no knowledge of the big picture, financial links or communications links are hidden
4) Finance is part of Covert Activities (CIA), you have to have transparency and regulations if covert activities are going to be monitored, tracked, managed, controlled, and legitimized

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:45 | 4840988 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the similarity between Obama's Syria policy and Bush's WMD propaganda machine is evident. what's remarkable is how quickly Obama backed off his position once the public saw through the lies. if you have the truth you stick to it (one would think) there are political consquences to be running a failed propaganda campaign. whats there from Nixon through Obama is the same pattern of lying about your policies and yourself during the campaign, and then reversing position. Nixon said he would end the Vietnam war, but that didn't happen until Ford. every president since has done a bait and switch on the american people, (which is why no one trusts the media) but you're right Obama has fired two generals after reading their email. its just a lot easier to dig up dirt on your political enemies. Obama would like to appoint a black or a woman to every position in America, but he's not a racist, right.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:47 | 4840746 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

"Media is a powerful tool..." No wonder the Candy Man of Ukraine announced he was selling off all his assets except his TV station. LOL

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 07:36 | 4839903 esum
esum's picture

waterboarding is not torture... but it did prevent additional terror attacks and we got bin laden as a result of it being used on KSM and by the by... when is he going to be executed>>>??????? the 9/11/01 dead souls want to know... 

torture is being trapped in the high floors of wtc and having your skin melt and burn from the heat and jumping in panic to escape the torture... to a 120 mph impact below... 

perhaps we should give KSM the experience... 

 

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 09:19 | 4844123 Took Red Pill
Tue, 06/10/2014 - 17:01 | 4841934 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Instead of torture, the better option might be to NOT get the US into global situations where we need to use torture....  especially since most of these are or were or still are 'civil wars' within countries where the people don't like us...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:34 | 4840939 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Have you ever suffered long term, intense pain?

I can tell you, from personal experience, you would do ANYTHING to make it stop.

If the victim doesn't know what the torturers think he does, he'll say anything or sign any document put in front of him.

Waterboarding is not torture. Yeah, right.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 07:51 | 4839912 intric8
intric8's picture

Yes to hardcore methods if it truly does end up protecting us

No to throwing anyone in guantanimo willy nilly without due process

No to the non-stop fucking lies out of politicians

No to the wholesale treatment of americans like WE are ALL potential enemies of the state

No to unconditional israeli support

No more neo-conservative agendas at america's expense

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:41 | 4840936 ImGumbydmmt
ImGumbydmmt's picture

Absolute NO to torture.

1.Torture illicit false confessions, so we never find out the truth.

2. Live by the sword die by the sword, If we let our safe and protected politicians torture our perceived enemies, How will our enemies treat our soldiers and servicemen. Leadership needs to renounce the years of torture we allowed post 9/11, (and before)

3. Huge Hypocrisy, Nuremburg trials convict Nazis accused of Water boarding, but now its ok if we do it? Soo sooo wrong.

4.  Precedents set by our government’s actions against foreign enemies becomes the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) eventually for how we handle Domestic Prisoners, i.e. US citizens.

5. Torture has no place in a  legal system based upon "Innocent until proven guilty." " No self incrimination"  and "
no cruel or unusual punishment"  There is investigation, apprehension, trial, judgment, and punishment/restitution. Where in this outline of proceedings in there a valid place for torture?

During the innocent until proven phase?   

During the trial, the no self incrimination phase?

Or During the " No cruel or unusual"  punishment/restitution phase?

With our standards of due process, Torture does not fit by any logical method of analysis

5. By any moral standard torture is "bad karma" (for lack of better concise expression). The precedent set will come back to bite someone.

 Either the public, for allowing it to happen, or the politicians who approved of it, or the military and .gov rank and file people who carried it out.

History is fairly consistent in this, however, some worms always get away, so,  If not in this life, well, in whatever you believe comes next.

Next, tangent topic,

By the same reasoning of our standards of legal due process, there is no logical basis for the "no-knock" SWAT raid, nor police shooting of "innocent until proven guilty" civilians, unless the police are stopping the commission of a violent criminal act.

 

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:32 | 4843516 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Laws? Perhaps older or the oldest Laws can show us the way.

It seems before Israel there were laws (LAWS) carved in stone which covered not only contracts, money, and trade, but also domestic situations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi (Pre-Semetic)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu (Pre-Semetic)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:36 | 4840483 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

I'd have to agree with all except your first point.  Hardcore field methods only in the most extreme circumstances (known immediate hazard of loss of life).  Institutionalized torture is an evil that stains history.  Pelosi et al rank right up there with witch hunters, inquisitors, and privy councillors of yore.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:41 | 4840220 CH1
CH1's picture

Yes to hardcore methods if it truly does end up protecting us

And the thugs that we empower to do so will always be righteous?

I no longer consent to the gang called government doing anything at all. I'll handle life's risks on my own, thank you.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 05:43 | 4839804 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Bush: I need moar suveillance
Democraps: We have too much now!

Bath House: I need moar surveillane
Democraps: Yes, master, we have not enough!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 03:11 | 4839746 zipit
zipit's picture

LOL.  Can these people not speak with out a teleprompter?  I've heard better answers/lies from 5-year olds.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 00:12 | 4839587 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

FUCK!

ALLLLLLL the way back to god damn LBJ!!!!

With the exception of....uh....kinda....Carter....

IT'S BEEN THE GRAVY TRAIN FOR THE MIC!

Bush, Pelosi, Reid, McConnel, McCain, Graham, Schumer..whatever bought off ass clown...

THEY'RE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL IN ON IT!!!!!

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 22:37 | 4839393 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Pelosi on the Intelligence committee, truth truly is stranger than fiction.  May as well put Corky on there too.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 00:14 | 4839590 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Dig up Strom Thurmond and prop him up on that panel...no SC voter would notice....well...a few...maybe

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 22:20 | 4839361 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

The history of the 'western' world up til the advent of Christ was ALWAYS a dictatorship of some kind..a clique w a leader + henchmen: Egyptian, followed by Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-persian,, Greek, then finally Roman. One miserable rotten dictatorship after the others, all with the same religion..worshipping the CREATION, [the sun god/ Lucifer] in one form or another. Since the advent of Christ the satanic rulers of this 'world' have tried again and again to set up a world Government. A "novus ordo seclorum" if you will . They have nearly succeeded. Their symbolism even rests upon the reverse of every "dollar bill" we circulate. today, w the all seeing eye of Lucifer at the top. Will it succeed? I do not know.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 22:08 | 4839340 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

pelosi is total communist cunt. that bitch is an enemy of the united states, along with the bush crime syndicate, and rockefeller nazis. this is war.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:03 | 4840571 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Fuck Yea!

 

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:43 | 4840230 CH1
CH1's picture

this is war.

Yeah, I've heard that before about a thousand times.

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