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Trump, Apmex, and Goldilocks
via TVR
From Robbie Whelan of the WSJ and BMG:
In the latest development in the growing surge of support for a return to some form of gold standard, Donald Trump has decided to accept gold bullion as a deposit on a commercial lease. This follows a news story reported on earlier this year where Utah became the first state to legalize gold and silver coins as currency.
On Thursday, the newest tenant in Donald Trump’s 40 Wall Street, a 70-story skyscraper in Manhattan’s Financial District, will hand Mr. Trump a security deposit worth about $176,000. No money will change hands, rather three 32-ounce bars of gold.
The occasion will mark the first time the Trump Organization has accepted 99.9% pure gold bullion, rather than cash, as a deposit on a commercial lease. The tenant, precious-metals dealer Apmex, will sign a 10-year lease for 40 Wall’s 50th floor at a leasing rate of about $50 a square foot, according to Apmex Chief Executive Michael R. Haynes. The company is promoting the use of gold as a replacement for cash in some situations.
“Gold has been a valuable asset class for the last 10,000 years, but the world has drifted away from it,” Mr. Haynes says. “I figured, Trump is a smart guy, and he’ll realize that taking gold is a better idea than taking cash.”
Mr. Trump said he sees the deal as a repudiation of the Obama administration’s economic policies, of which he has been a vocal critic.
“It’s a sad day when a large property owner starts accepting gold instead of the dollar,” Mr. Trump said in an interview. “The economy is bad, and Obama’s not protecting the dollar at all….If I do this, other people are going to start doing it, and maybe we’ll see some changes.”
To view the entire Robbie Whelan article: Trump’s New Gold Standard
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They "hedge"!
They may not be giving anything up at all. It is for a security deposit. If they move they just get the same bars back. Hell, they'll probably hold them on account. It is interesting that they aren't payin gthe lease with gold, only securing the deposit.
This is not hard to figure out. It's a stunt.. both parties play the gold deal artfully but for different purposes.
Trumps business is fiat fueled real estate and as such, has no use or need to hold three bars of gold and will flip it for cash immediately.
If they really wanted to play this to the hilt Trump would profess interest for gold as a tail risk hedge and they would put three Krylon spray painted stand-in fake bars behind a bullet proof display window (similar to the nugget at the Golden Nugget Casino in Vegas) at the front of the APMEX suite and periodically tout it as a good deal while gold goes up in value.
Imagine the mileage they could get when gold breaks $2500, $3000 etc.
Or.. Trump could buy the bars himself from his business with no premium and use them for ballast on his boat or something.
Free Publicity
It's a clever marketing and publicity ploy for both parties.
Crash JP Morgan, buy silver.
Crash JP Morgan, rent from the Donald?!
Apmex is where I get my gold and silver.
navy62802,@14:50
Apmex is where I get my gold and silver.
Why?,when there are far less expensive dealers w/ much lower premiums?.
Money to burn?.
Gainesville beats their prices every day, and not by a tiny margin either.
The difference in prices over spot on Apmex are ludicrous.
Have given up on Apmex. The new CEO is way too gimmicky - and this fits his MO. Their prices have gotten worse and worse - once they were a competitive cost seller, no more. Gainesville does a good job - so does Tulving if you can deal with his personality.
Don't. They rip you off. Prices are much better elsewhere.
My local coin shop charges me $40 above spot for Krugerrands.
Agree. My local coin shops have always been cheaper than Apmex. One advantage with Apmex is they accept CCs, even then it's a mere $1500/mo on them. With patience one can find junk silver* at spot w/o premium on Ebay. Two weeks ago I purchased a total of $89 face, pre-'65 dimes from three independent sellers. All three purchases were below that day's spot, shipping included, all coins arrived as advertised.
*I haven't purchased any other kind of bullion on Ebay so cannot comment on that.
edit: these deals are best found when silver market sentiment is moderate to ambivalent.
Good boots on the ground reporting. Green.
United we stand, amigo. ;)
links please?!?!?!
Best Bullion Dealers In The USA:
http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html
www.gainesvillecoins.com/
i second that / personal recommendation.
APMEX is the largest online precious metals dealer in the world. Tulving has limitations. Gainesville and some others have good reputations. Local dealers used to offer more privacy. Not sure if that is true anymore after passage of the unconstitutional "Patriot" Act?
APMEX is OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE. I don't understand why anyone buys from them. You have TexMetals, you have Gainesville, you have Golden Eagle - plenty of other credible options. People buy from APMEX because they have the name. TexMetals has free shipping on all orders over $6k, cheaper premiums, and no minimums. They don't have a Wall Street loft though.
I've been dealing Bullion Direct since early '08 and have had very good luck. Nucleo Exchange allows you to buy from others at a better price. Got a big shipment coming from tomorrow. Yeehaw!! Fuck you JPM we'll beat you yet! By the way there are no minimums at B.D. Tulving is way too rich for my blood.
I still like Ebay the best- though I've used some of the others mentioned. There's a pretty wide range of quantities available, and I've never had a problem with any of a few hundred orders. It can be a PITA because a lot of people sell single coins, but there are regular sellers there that reliably offer lots of X quantity at or below spot.
I'm not quite in the 100oz of silver at a crack class, but I picked up another 5 eagles this evening for $.90 below spot each, from a jeweler in New Jersey whom I've ordered from a half-dozen times without any issues. The only complaint I have is that the first order came in airtite holders, but they started shipping them in ziploc bags now, so I have to purchase the cases seperately.
For those who turn up their noses at this method, it's not flashy, but a handful of eagles and 90% coins add up pretty quick when you buy every week or so- and the quantities are small enough that there is no one order that makes you a target for anyone.
At least until the end of this year we can still buy where we choose. What is your agenda? You sound like the New World Order of precious metals?! Live and let live.
When I first went all in... I bought big and cheap; now, it would take a very long time to save the money to do the same thing again; now i buy every two/three months; so this is why I buy from Apmex. I also trust Apmex better for shipping; and wire-transfers cost money. Also, because I'm a platinum member od Apmex; I get $10 shipping on orders less than 25k.
this is from the tulving website.
Order Minimums (Our minimums to sell to you)
Gold - 20 ounces per item
Platinum - 10 ounces per item
Palladium - 20 ounces per item
Silver Eagles - 500 ounces - sold in increments of 500 ounces
90% silver bags - $1,000 face value. After the first $1,000 face, then in additional $500 face increments.
Silver rounds and bars - 500 ounces - sold in increments of 500 ounces per item
lemonobrien,
When you have a $90.00+/-(depending on check time) over spot on 100ozs of Eagles, bro, your really paying,those are like there's a shortage, and you can't hardly get it.
When you are paying $2.80-$3.00+/- an ounce OVER spot for Silver(rounds,secondary mkt), your wasting cash.
I prefer to put my frn's into the most metal (same coins) at less than half those prems.
I mean really, 100 Eagles and a $90.00+/- a few cents Prem per ounce??.
When elsewhere you can get them for 50% less for 1?.
Apm#$ has gone off the deep end IMHO.
Gainesville Coin has no minimums like Tulving does. Tulving is for people looking for the best deal and who have financial ability to meet minimums. Smaller investors use Gainesville Coin.
Texas Precious Metals
www.texmetals.com
Thanks MT, was buying from APMEX all the time now I'll try the other 2! Much appreciated!
For smaller quantities, don't forget your local coin shop. Sometimes you might not even have to leave a paper trail...
My local shop only takes payments in cash. Feels good to instantly exchange your paper for PM. I'd gladly pay a few bucks over spot if it means leaving to trail
Word. I absolutely love handing over a bunch of paper and being handed back something with some heft. As a matter of fact, tomorrow is payday which means I will be taking another 10 oz of silver out of circulation at my local coin shop.
We few, we happy few, we band of silver holders !
I have bought from APMEX a couple times without a hitch. I have noticed they are a little on the expensive side for bullion. I bought from a couple other dealers before APMEX and it didn't go well. Here are views for APMEX if you are interested in reading http://golddealerreviews.com/reviews/gold-dealers/6-apmex
The article doesnt mention silver.
Central Banks dont hold silver.
High silver prices would stifle certain industries.
Big money moves more easily into handfuls of Gold than mountains of Silver.
Its an article about GOLD, which is a better store of value. Read FOFOA for more.
I hold silver too but in my opinion the end game is GOLD, and GOLD =/= SILVER.
Silver is nicer too look at and clinks better, Ill say that.
Silver is indeed "poor man's gold" and I think will be more functional in a road warrior scenario but gold will certainly preserve your purchasing power until after we have Nuremburg type trials for the tyrants.
dubble
That is why you need a V8 interceptor as much as the silver.
Just because higher silver prices stifle industrial users doesn't mean silver prices won't rise. Quite the opposite, that is exactly WHY they will rise.
Silver will rise higher and faster than gold in an industrial panic. Once that has occured, cost average your way out of silver and into gold. Then move into whatever you like as the economic situation improves/stabilizes.
Maybe you are right, maybe not. The industrial component is a constraint into the amount of wealth that can be stored in it, as is the fact that it is "used up". Both detract from its "monetariness" and make gold a better option. There is plenty of demand for other commodities, and silver is closer to money than many of them, but gold to me is the most monetary.
I get the "added demand" part, and originally liked that story a lot. However in an S&D analysis, I think all that money in treasuries and other paper safe havens is going to go to gold, and the powers that be already hold most of it so that will be cool with them. The industrial demand story is peanuts in this scenario.
I hope we get the "industrial panic" that sends us to 15:1 tomorrow, because I will scale out of my nonjunk holdings on the way, but I dont see this as an endgame, just a potential event on the way there. Im not sure of your definition of industrial panic, but i dont know if a price spike in silver would even occur in such a scenario. Maybe Im not thinking of the same thing you are.
17:1 ratio puts silver over $100 an oz. basic law of availability. But platinum is priced lower than gold right now so who the fuck knows what's going to happen.
hey ..... i'm a learner here; but, that's my opinion, too ; especially after reading FOFOA . Silver is great ! but, if & when the time comes & the gold:silver ratio gets to where i hope it gets, my silver is a vehicle to get me to the gold. ....... . which i will never let out of my hands now that i'm educated.
you're relatively new to zh. what kingdom wrote is a phrase used here from time to time on hard money articles to show preference for gold and silver, to offset the lame posters who accuse hard money supporters of being doomers and to hat tip henry v.
Been reading since this had blogspot in the URL, actually, just never signed up.
I appreciate the kind worded response, but it is still not an article about silver, and I think that should be noted.
note: edited for my terrible spelling/keyboardsmanship
Shhh...
We're hoping that everyone will forget about silver for a while, for the purposes of accumulating more in the mean time.
No worries, mate. We're not looking for a rule book on what to say and how to say it here. YC2's point is a good one. Silver's great, but gold is what the control freaks are supressing and holding.
I think the jury is still out on that. Just take a look at JPM's short position........then ask yourself why so huge! In the end, silver will turn out to be a much better play..IMHO
Yeah, you have proof of that short position? Which, btw, was declared by who? JPM But I'm sure they're not misleading the pubic into silver and away from gold...
thanks for the input. i'll keep that in mind. never occured to me that i was wordsmithing given that i coined the phrase quite a while back. also, thanks for the update on gold being the money that the control freaks are suppressing. that too is new to me. think i'll continue to hang out at zh so that i can continue my financial education. much appreciated.
So's the sarc. When ZH is taken over by confirmation bias, I'll leave and you can enjoy your stay.