This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
When the Time Comes Will We Be Able to Forgive?
When the Time Comes Will We Be Able to Forgive?
By
Cognitive Dissonance
How do we live with that soul numbing pain we all know so well, but desperately wish to forget? You know what I’m talking about, the kind of inner pain that cuts a wide swath through our soul and then leaves us vacant and drained. It’s so much easier to be the hard ass, first with ourselves and then with all the others. You can’t be hurt by what you don’t let in, so let’s just raise our shields and hate those bastards because…...because they deserve it, that’s why. Of course, there’s always a special place in my personal hell for a few select psychopaths who deserve my best, most exceptional rage.
The thing is, though, when we finally lay splayed upon the floor exhausted from our hating labors, we still remain unsated and thoroughly dissatisfied. It is only then that we comprehend that we are all that we have left to abhor. Trust me on this one; those are the really ugly hate hangovers, the ones that spring from our own self loathing and disgust, along with our unabashed anger at the cruel world and those who we can single out for special hatred. Come on, we can admit it. We are all so very angry, furious even, at what the sociopaths have dealt us this time around. None the less, here we are. Or soon enough will be. So what are we going to do?
I suspect some of us are sitting smug as a bug thinking that we really aren’t all that angry, just plenty pissed off and loaded for bear. And that might well be the case, at least for now anyway. But just wait until the really shocking stuff is exposed, because the ass hat parade hasn’t even begun to march down Main Street. And between you and me, those stupid little clown cars, the irritating enablers and sycophants, are really going to irritate me to no end when they start to whine. Then what will we do?
I’ll tell you what we do; either we forgive them or we will be consumed by them. Either we dismiss them from our mind with an open and honest heart or we will be owned by them lock, stock and barrel. The choice is up to us and no one else, because at this point we are just renting space in our heads to those little bastards and it is slowly eating us alive. Sure, maybe for now the rented space is just closet sized and free of charge. But when the fecal matter hits several hundred million spinning minds there is going to be giant sized outrage and then the rent rapidly rises from free to mental and emotional slavery.
Forgiving someone or something certainly doesn’t mean forgetting what has been done. Nor does forgiving mean we should let ‘them’ off without punishment or sentence. And I definitely didn’t say a thing about turning the cheek. Nope, I said nothing of the sort. Forgiving is all about giving us permission to let go of all the hate, anger and bile that has been building for years, decades even. Forgiving is about evicting the demons that have occupied our mind for so long that we no longer know where we end and they begin. Forgiving them is all about forgiving ourselves.
Speaking from personal experience and only about me, when it came time for me to forgive I no longer knew how. I didn’t have it in me precisely when I most urgently needed to know how to forgive others so that I could forgive myself. I hadn’t realized that hating for as long as I did effectively sterilized from me my naturally occurring compassion and empathy. So when the time came to turn those healing tools upon others I found to my dismay that I could not heal myself.
Now I have come to understand that if I do not use the tools I have available, they become rusted, blunt and stale. Wait even longer and they are completely forgotten, assuring that I will soon become what I hate. So now I work daily to keep my forgiving sharp and at the ready. And the funny thing is that because of my continuous forgiving labors I now see that the time to forgive might never come because it is here already.
09-06-2011
Cognitive Dissonance
Forgiving Blue
- advertisements -
The devil appears in the mirror, where the brain is in charge of the spirit. Only through the pathway of selflessness/forgiveness may one pass through the looking glass. That does not mean ignorance is bliss. The universe is a work always in progress, as are we. The looking glass appears to be moving, but it is we who are moving. Become mobile to remain stationary, as the observor.
Trippy
AD
Two-hundred comments. Actually more than two hundred comments. Do any of you know what cognitive dissonance is? In what context is it used in our society today? Who here knows the difference between freedom and license? So, you're willing to forgive, are you? Does that include the Killing fields and Bundy? An inquiring mind wants to know. Remember, however, that the writer makes one statement and then quickly qualifies it. That places us in the Land of Buts.
I have a different take on sociopaths and the masters of oligarchy. When you hurt people at the bottom they die. When you lose money and you are at the top you merely downsize to a smaller mansion or you sell two of four houses. In short, if you want to forgive people who abuse you and your loved ones it's your prerogative. I have a different take on these matters.
Great post CG. The difficult part about forgiveness these days is that morality has been unhinged from an absolute and gone to relativist doctrine, and so we now have to factor in that those we perceive to need our forgiveness probably feel they have done nothing "wrong". It goes with the territory, as all is permissable and can be rationalized without absolutes. Forgiveness involves pain, but there is also (I find) a cleansing so to speak when an act is forgiven. An acknowledgement of the hurt for what it is seems to removes a burden I didn't know I had.
If perception is reality, then truth when viewed within the framework of human relationships is its destroyer. My wife has the unparalled ability to shatter perceptions I have of myself, and it takes all my effort to not want to lash out. It requires stepping back and viewing the situation from both ends and eventually picking up the pieces of my shattered pride. But in the end all worth it...
I'll forgive CD for posting bullshit like this on ZH after his worthless bullshit and his worthless ass have been kicked off ZH.
There. We have justice, problem resolution, and forgiveness.
... exactly the 3 steps Christ taught by the way.
... and yes, "christians" forget about the first 2 steps.
... which is why "christians" won't make it. They're lost for all eternity.
... as Christ also said.
By your post you don't know jack about Christ and His teachings. Justice was reserved for the father, Christ was the example and payment for "sin". Christians believe that there is an eventual accounting for their actions and so proceed from the assumption that justice delayed is not justice denied.
It doesn't matter what you think. You're lost. You won't make it.
Luckily that is not for you to decide and what I think matters to the person that it should matter to, me.
Cites?
'blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." and no it's not "blessed are the cheesemakers."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slbMe-aTY1A&feature=player_detailpage
CD unfortunately I will not forgive and I will not forget, I just cannot. My mind has been opened long ago to the less than human individuals that survey the world and pick and coose the next target. Never, never could I have imagined I would be routing for Muammar to survive just one more week to the aggrivation of everyone that wants him dead. Never could I have thought that I would dream of the deaths of the Rothschild's (pronounced Roth-shield, american = red shield), the Brzezinski's and the Spanish Rockefeller family persons. This red pill shit can be for the birds somtimes but I tell everyone in plain language I will not forgive, my heart may be black but some of us need to remain steadfast, cold and prepared not to forgive, not to give quarter, because damit it all to hell none has been given and none ever will! There be no shelter here, never has been, never will be.............
AD
I appreciate your honesty and most who are awake and aware sympathize with your lament. Forgiveness is always painful and pride destroying, but cleansing to the soul.
For one of the few countries in the world that still practices capital punishment it would be a terrible waste of public opinion to forgive these bastards.
I say, buy your favorite banker a Snickers bar and simply pat them on the back and say "It's gonna be ok friend, its gonna be ok." as he sits and cries while eating his candy bar.
Then while he's distracted, hit him in the back of the head with a baseball bat...........repeatedly.
Forgiving them is all about forgiving ourselves.
Witholding forgiveness of others wrongdoings is a status to which none of us is entitled. We don't forgive ourselves. We excuse and reprimand ourselves, the latter of which often being fabricated to self-justify. True forgiveness comes from elsewhere. Only when we understand that forgiveness do we have a capacity to forgive others.
I have been back here again and again - a fascinating event in the blogosphere.
I have one more idea, but unfortunately, it is just along the lines of semantics:
I think there is a basic demarcation that is confusing the argument - When we speak of anger, are we speaking of an emotional state where someone's various desires (like revenge)are not fulfilled, or are we speaking of an objective response to criminality and immorality that has not been punished? I do think these are two distinct human responses that people speak of as "anger". FWIW
I am aware of the mental health aspects in forgiving. I don't get your parsing of forgive, forgiveness. Some crimes are so horrific the punishment should be unspeakable and the punishers should live with their crime so others can be free and safe. The worshipers of Moloch intend to destroy or enslave all others, I have no pity.
This is one of the better articles for personal growth. I really ought to leave it with that sentence, but I don't think the message will reach your intended audience who prefer to tar whole sections of our world with the same wide brush, and live in perpetual fear of the phantoms their paranoia will bring them. America represents 5% of the world's population, & 20% of the economy, but spends 50% of the entire world's combined budget for their military. They don't do it because they are balanced, sane people. It is not just TPTB and the Govt either. You must have realized by now that most Americans believe that killing and murder are solutions to complex problems. The thinking that "If only such and such guy was dead, the world would be a better place", is a slippery road to thinking, "If only such and such group of people were dead, the world would be a better place", and the end result is always some form of wholesale murder of innocent people, along with anyone they designate as "bad" with the changing seasons. By all the accounts of America's projection of her foreign policies during my lifetime, that kind of insane thinking is commonplace. How do you persuade such people to forgive? I think it's impossible to reach all but a few. In my opinion, those powerful who merely acted out their selfish, greedy, sociopathic desires did so in keeping with the rest of the country. The same people who voted, lauded, and adored them in the first place all over the MSM, are now the ones who want to kill them.
The American paranoia and love of violence runs so deep, I sometimes wonder if there are physiological or environmental factors at work over there. I promise you, somebody will take this post as an attack on America and ask me to stop "threatening" his/her country and threaten violence in return when I made no such overtures of threats, instead of reading it as it is supposed to be: An observation from the outside. It just amazes me sometimes how paranoid and violent Americans can be, for no discernable reasons at all. Is it all a projection of guilt for what they have done to others throughout their short history? Is it contamination by tetraethyl lead (A well known neuro-toxin that was used for leaded cars until about 10yrs ago)? I don't know, but I read that the average American has upto 60 times the level of TEL than those outside, thanks to its oil industry and cumulative effects of contamination)
Hate is a complete waste of energy, but justice is not. If you ever manage to dismantle the entire US government and the banking elites to start from scratch, using the constitution as a worthy template once again, you might think about expending some resources to locking up every single son of a bitch in positions of power who abused his position to break the three crimes: 1) Assault 2) Theft 3) Murder. that no civilised society can abide, but in America have long been national policies, as long as it is done to non-Americans and natives. These days, I suppose it is done to fellow Americans as well, and that's the only reason why we're seeing so much whining.
Anyway, somebody once told me that the best revenge is simply living well. Perhaps that's what we should all concentrate on; living well, instead of dwelling on fantasy acts of revenge that involve killing, looking under the bed for "terrorists/commies/whatever", and pointing the finger of blame at other nations for what you have wrought.
Not to open up a can of worms, but we Americans dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan cities. That, more than anything else, probably accounts for why Japan is our lackey to this day. They are historically traumatized by us. We terrorized their population. No wonder we are so worried about terrorists.
Yes, the things of which CD speaks have massive consequences. But he speaks on an individual level. Can whole nations feel guilt?
Another black spot in our history is our treatment of Native Americans (I'm not a big one for political correctness, but I would imagine they don't like being refered to as "Indians".) This amounts to a genocide. As in all genocides, these natives were regarded as inferior and demonized. Long after this genocide, they continued to be demonized by Hollywood. I don't mention slavery of African peoples because that is largely acknowledged.
If we Americans do some soul searching, I believe we can own up to these crimes. If we feel something along the lines of "Well, why couldn't they have just dropped a bomb off the coast of Japan, rather than incinerating innocent women and children?" that is a start toward salvation. Likewise, we can ask ourselves if there was a better way to "treat" Native Americans than breaking all our "treaties" with them and exiling them to barren reservations.
What is it in the American psyche that causes us to first demonize and then attack the defenseless?
What goes around comes around as we are beginning to find out. We must do some soul searching and seek forgiveness or we are doomed. If we don't do this, we will continue to alienate the entire planet--with the attendant consequences.
If the day comes that the Chinese take over America and drag us and our families out of our houses to do hard labor and then be disposed of, will people around the world say, "They had it coming!" ?
+1
In that improbable scenario, I'm sure many would, but to me two wrongs do not make a right. You asked what it is in the American psyche that causes you to first demonize and then attack the defenseless. You might take a good hard look at your last sentence about the Chinese coming to take over and dragging families out of their houses - that's classic demonisation and projection of acts Americans have done to 3rd world families for the past few decades. I did say that paranoia runs very deep over there, and even someone as obviously thoughtful, lucid, and intelligent as you is not immune to the influences of your peers.
I've met plenty of Americans who feel as you do. My 1st cousins are American, born and bred so I've visited the East and West coasts all of my life. But you know people like you are outnumbered by a huge margin, and you would not be surprised if you are disparaged and attacked for your views - the sentence at the beginning of your post almost expects it. I sympathize, I really do.
Thanks for the feedback and sympathy. Yes, I admit my own psyche is laced with paranoia. I live every day with the feeling that people here in America are suspicious and distrustful of me, though I mean no harm. Something I've never been able to free myself from and in fact I am so conditioned by this feeling that when I am over in Europe I take that American baggage with me. Europeans are quick to sense that. On some level I can't specify, there is a forced conformity that goes beyond what ideas you may espouse, no matter how radical. I don't express particularly radical ideas, but I sense that on a fundamental level, I run afoul of this subliminal conformity. One consequence is that I always have to struggle mightily to hold a job. Iive been successful at prolonging my tenure by means of clever strategems (one of which is to work twice as hard as other people), but I pay a huge emotional price. The trouble is that everything is obscure and inchoate, but I do feel surrounded by thought police in this country. It feels like the mental and emotional equivalent being in a standing cell. In Europe people are not like that and I feel I can breathe freely when I'm there, relatively speaking. It's actually a relief when nobody notices you on the street or cares about what you may think.
Incidently, my mention of the Chinese dragging Americans out of their houses was written with what we have done in other countries in mind--one only has to look at our soldiers in Iraq or Afganistan busting into peoples houses in the middle of the night with their automatic weapons.
You are very perceptive and I value your insight.
You're right, man. We're not stable! Absolutely CRAZY, I tell you!! Maybe you're right, it's something in the air. Or maybe it's the water?? THAT'S IT, IT MUST BE THE WATER!! OR MAYBE THE YELLOW SQUASH!!
STAY AWAY FROM US AND STAY AWAY FROM OUR WATER, YHC!! AND OUR SQUASH!! THERE'S MURDER IN THE STREETS!!
YHC, it’s post like yours that make me think we don’t spend enough on our military (which, of course, doesn’t amount to 50% of ANYTHING). Seriously, thanks for worrying about us and all the money we spend on big guns and such, but we’ll be fine.
P.S. Don't do anything stupid to tick-off the crazy guys running the big guns. They're more dangerous than the yellow squash.
For those wondering, this Ura Bonehead is not my second account created to prove my points. Which he does so succintly, failing dismally at sarcasm.
And being succinct (in addition to actually having a point) is something you should try. <no sarcasm intended>
If you perceive the United States through the lens of Zero Hedge, then hell yeah, we are bunch of crazy-ass paranoid freaks intent on sensless bloodshed to fill a gaping hole left by failed ideologies. I believe that the United States isn't like this, at least to the extremes you see here.
One issue is the anonymity of the medium. People say crazy shit just because they can at this forum. Stupid I know, but it happens. So don't think of everyone as being as crazy as they seem, although there are some real nutjobs for sure.
Another issue is that American culture prizes risk-taking as a path to success over knowledge acquistion as a path to success. So you can say stuff even if it is stupid as all get out. You can be totally full of crap in the good ol' USA and your opinion is as good as anyone else's. This is almost incomprehensible in other cultures.
The biggest thing is that Americans are completely and utterly unreserved. They throw their feelings out there in all fullness for everyone to see. We whine, we cry like babies, we show weakness, we complain like babies, we get angry and abusive. Not everyone but you know what I mean. We are direct, and this is seen as a virtue... sincerity, forthrightness, honesty. I am far too direct myself for most tastes.
I know this behavior is nearly unbearable to some other cultures, but you come to understand it after a fashion. Everyone here is a part of an in-group. There are no outsiders. Idiots and nuts, yes, but they are not outsiders in a cultural sense.
A good proper Brit I know told me that he thinks the United States in the large is a nation of hopeless crybabies. I disagree.Many people in the United States are weak, but this isn't due to being unreserved. It is because of a sense of ingrained entitlement. Many are paranoid and self-deluded, but this is due to ignorance. Many refuse to accept the awful truth that everyone had a hand in making this mess.
But not everyone is like this I hope.
I can understand your reasoning fully. People are complex, subtle, and like your avatar contain the duality of light and dark simultaneously. A decent man at one moment can also be a wife beating monster the next, but I can tell you from experience that the bell curve of the normalized population is firmly on the side of the what we might regard as the right-wing nazi territory. I don't know whose fault that is, and I would dearly love to mind my own business, but sadly what happens over there invariably affects everyone over here.
I hear you.
The US looks at the Middle East as driven by ignorance and violent demogogues, in exactly the same way that the rest of the world sees us. Worse, we can't understand that propping up one Middle Eastern despot while actively warring against another guarantees a schizophrenic blow-up in oil markets eventually.
But there is a sensible, decent side of the United States is busy trying to do the right thing. They are paying off the debt-binges of their own making. But there are some can't or won't, and many of them place blame and anger for their failure entirely on someone else. Politicians and opportunists always have and always will take advantage of this as more and more are squeezed into the margin. Sadly, there are also fools that enable it.
Many can't see that there are things so much than personal financial failure.
the problem isn't that the proper application of violence does not solve problems. it is that the America people had been so completely lied and manipulated by the TPTB that they gladly go off to make war on all the wrong people and places, when most of those who truely deserve their retribution are right here at home.
if the chicoms want to end western and America hegemony, just start releasing those secret recordings of the TPTB conspiring against their own citizens. we'll take it from there.
You lost me at
That's completely false. The US military is only about 20% of OUR (US) budget.
"13 facts about military spending that will make your head explode:" from the Business Insider
http://www.businessinsider.com/facts-about-defense-spending-2010-11?op=1
Forgiveness seems (to me) best used when reconciling a trespass by someone/something when it is NOT in that party's nature.
No forgiveness for those inclined by nature or nurture to fuck you over.
I told my father, when I was going thru a bad time during a divorce, that I am having a hard time forgiving my x for fraud, infidelity and falsifying power of attorney to rip off various monies, refusing to sign a joint tax return and sticking me with the IRS lein, and above all taking my 2 year old daughter awasy from me. I told my dad I am struggling with what Jesus said about turning the other cheek. My father heard this from me, and said you can forgive someone and turn the other cheek only when they are done slapping you!
The banks are not done slapping us yet, so let the games begin.
struggling with what Jesus said about turning the other cheek...
Without an acknowledgement of wrongdoing , there's nothing to forgive. The difficulty I have is the not the recommendation, but commandment to seek Justice and love Mercy. Our Creator does the same.
Repent
Remit
Restitution
Reconciliation
Restoration
In the final analysis, it's about relationship I suppose.
On a long enough timeline....
pessimistic...... period.
I wonder if forgiveness, without understanding, is just a clever way of burying our anger deeper inside ourselves.
With understanding, I suspect forgiveness is not necessary.
So rather than forgiving them or yourselves, maybe spend that time looking at yourself for clues to understanding them... at some level, we may all be the same.
CD, you are a good man. Thank you for who you are.
I find myself in the unenviable position of being under Federal indictment, facing - in this moment - between 15-120 years. Just last week, I found out that the Federal prosecutor, whom up until that point, I considered my enemy, had lost his wife to ALS and his father - in the same week.
I cried for him, and now he occurs for me as a Human Being, more profoundly trapped by the Federal system that he serves than I will ever be.
The reality is, as long as we can remain in touch with our empathy, our compassion, we are Human. Otherwise, we revert to animals.
I agree. As I said in the piece.
I like searchers. The teachings of Jesus Christ could help you on this quest. Unfortunately you cannot heal yourself. God Bless.
What?
"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" I understand what your saying CD.... Forgiving is in essence for ourselves. I find it hard to forgive myself for many things and when i've found it hard to forgive someone who has trespassed against me, anger bitterness and stress builds up, so in a sense when I forgive it is not necessarily for the other person but to let go of the bitterness and move on...
Now if I can learn to not be so bitter with myself.
magic 8 ball says:
WE'LL SEE ;~)
Mine just says "outlook cloudy, try again". Might be defective, said "made in China" on the box.
+ for leaving it up to the magic 8 ball!
better than snorting and 8 ball and then trying to forgive them ALL!
i don't know, JW.
for the first half-hour or so -- it's easy to forgive the whole world....then the cravin sets in, and, well, heaven help whomsoever stands between janus and that next LINE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJQWr3Brdk8
you take sally/
and i'll take sue/
there ain't no differnce between da two/
....mmhhmm momma, dis ole cocaine bout to make me sick/
cocaine, said it's runnin all round my brain,
janus
There is no hatred, anger.
Nothing to forgive, forget.
The art of living and the lying in wait.
I am what was sown.
You have to be kidding me. You are going with "it's my parents fault." Weak.
You have to be kidding me. You're going with a liberal interpretation? Wanker.
We should forgive them to the extent that we will be better prepared to do battle with themi n a less emotional, more logical manner; thus unifying and enhancing our collective conscious to change things as they are with a Unified determination, an unrelenting purpose. I'm not sure if this is forgiveness in the way you describe CD.
im wondering if i can forgive myself....for not trusting my gut, following blindly, not seeing the REAL evils of this world, etc, etc.
at least i found this place,...... but it sucks trying to play catch up.....