This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
When the Time Comes Will We Be Able to Forgive?
When the Time Comes Will We Be Able to Forgive?
By
Cognitive Dissonance
How do we live with that soul numbing pain we all know so well, but desperately wish to forget? You know what I’m talking about, the kind of inner pain that cuts a wide swath through our soul and then leaves us vacant and drained. It’s so much easier to be the hard ass, first with ourselves and then with all the others. You can’t be hurt by what you don’t let in, so let’s just raise our shields and hate those bastards because…...because they deserve it, that’s why. Of course, there’s always a special place in my personal hell for a few select psychopaths who deserve my best, most exceptional rage.
The thing is, though, when we finally lay splayed upon the floor exhausted from our hating labors, we still remain unsated and thoroughly dissatisfied. It is only then that we comprehend that we are all that we have left to abhor. Trust me on this one; those are the really ugly hate hangovers, the ones that spring from our own self loathing and disgust, along with our unabashed anger at the cruel world and those who we can single out for special hatred. Come on, we can admit it. We are all so very angry, furious even, at what the sociopaths have dealt us this time around. None the less, here we are. Or soon enough will be. So what are we going to do?
I suspect some of us are sitting smug as a bug thinking that we really aren’t all that angry, just plenty pissed off and loaded for bear. And that might well be the case, at least for now anyway. But just wait until the really shocking stuff is exposed, because the ass hat parade hasn’t even begun to march down Main Street. And between you and me, those stupid little clown cars, the irritating enablers and sycophants, are really going to irritate me to no end when they start to whine. Then what will we do?
I’ll tell you what we do; either we forgive them or we will be consumed by them. Either we dismiss them from our mind with an open and honest heart or we will be owned by them lock, stock and barrel. The choice is up to us and no one else, because at this point we are just renting space in our heads to those little bastards and it is slowly eating us alive. Sure, maybe for now the rented space is just closet sized and free of charge. But when the fecal matter hits several hundred million spinning minds there is going to be giant sized outrage and then the rent rapidly rises from free to mental and emotional slavery.
Forgiving someone or something certainly doesn’t mean forgetting what has been done. Nor does forgiving mean we should let ‘them’ off without punishment or sentence. And I definitely didn’t say a thing about turning the cheek. Nope, I said nothing of the sort. Forgiving is all about giving us permission to let go of all the hate, anger and bile that has been building for years, decades even. Forgiving is about evicting the demons that have occupied our mind for so long that we no longer know where we end and they begin. Forgiving them is all about forgiving ourselves.
Speaking from personal experience and only about me, when it came time for me to forgive I no longer knew how. I didn’t have it in me precisely when I most urgently needed to know how to forgive others so that I could forgive myself. I hadn’t realized that hating for as long as I did effectively sterilized from me my naturally occurring compassion and empathy. So when the time came to turn those healing tools upon others I found to my dismay that I could not heal myself.
Now I have come to understand that if I do not use the tools I have available, they become rusted, blunt and stale. Wait even longer and they are completely forgotten, assuring that I will soon become what I hate. So now I work daily to keep my forgiving sharp and at the ready. And the funny thing is that because of my continuous forgiving labors I now see that the time to forgive might never come because it is here already.
09-06-2011
Cognitive Dissonance
Forgiving Blue
- advertisements -
Maybe it's just me, but I can't make shit for sense out of this article. I know what forgiveness is, and this ain't forgiveness.
I think it may be an Obama CREEP plea!
I realized a long time ago that you can maintain a virtual constant state of forgiveness through pity. Not only will pitying those who commit evil (or other transgressions) allow you to forgive them in real time, it allows you to put them out of their misery without malice or regret.
Good band.
The Scorpion and the Frog:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
The Scorpion and the Frog is a fable about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that the behaviour of some creatures is irrepressible, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences.
I'll forgive when they've redeemed themselves. Give back that which they embezzled.
Commit Seppuku in a sewer on nationwide tv.
When their stinking entrails are steaming on the sidewalk, and the last wailing scream has died away,
all shall be forgiven.
Seppuku ( "stomach-cutting") is a form of Japanese ritual suicide by disembowelment. Seppuku was originally reserved only for samurai. Part of the samurai bushido honor code, seppuku was either used voluntarily by samurai to die with honour rather than fall into the hands of their enemies (and likely suffer torture), or as a form of capital punishment for samurai who had committed serious offenses, or performed for other reasons that had brought shame to them. The ceremonial disembowelment, which is usually part of a more elaborate ritual and performed in front of spectators, consists of plunging a short blade, traditionally a tant?, into the abdomen and moving the blade from left to right in a slicing motion.[1]
We Should Forgive Our Enemies, But Only After They Have Been Hanged First. -- Heinrich Heine
Hey, I'm the original "Jump! You Fuckers!" guy.
What can I say?
I will certainly forgive them, AFTER they jump.
My willingness to help them out their respective windows goes on unabated in the absence of any Justice.
Jump! You Fuckers!
One doesn't forgive coyotes for wiping out your henhouse. They don't give a damn if you forgive them or not. Given the opportunity, they will do so again.
One hangs their dead, decaying carcasses on the fenceline to show the other coyotes what awaits them without a change of direction.
While in Vietnam, I fantasized about the "suits" that sent me and my compadres there. In my fantasy, they developed hemorrhoids the size of peaches that continued to multiply until they all ruptured at once and the sorry, lowdown cocksuckers bled out and died. That fantasy is as strong today as it was then.
I close my eyes and smile.
Mine revolved around a pine tree, a nice stretch of barbed wire, an IV, pancake syrup, and a nice campfire while I watched the ants eat the motherfuckers alive.
If I ever find the goatfuckers.....
unfortunately, if you got all of them, there is twice as many scumbags ready to take their places...
I guess it's me. But when you get good enough to become a professional hater, for those deserving of your (my) despisement, the feelings you write about become as antediluvian as your prehensile tail.
Right off the bat, there are two people that betrayed me that I especially hated (another is still living but that's another story) and wished for them a painful death, and in both cases got my wish. Both thru extended time in the ICU due to heart problems (which did surprise me because I thought, like me, they have lost whatever heart they were born with).
I didn't feel drained at all, but somewhat victorious, and self-satisfied. To never have them on this earth again has provided many years of 'gotcha'. I'm gleefully waiting for the fat ass that remains among my top three to get diabetes, or something equally debilitating, maybe something in the lungs.
A professional hater knows the joy of revenge. That's why god saved that part for herself.
And what is the difference bewteen being Sated and satisfied?
Hmmmmm..... hope that wasn't you whose bottom I pinched in grade school - YIKES!
May your time never come to be so wronged that only an equal or greater calalmity, perpetrated against you personally, reaches the level that justice be demanded and sought.
you may choose to believe that i haven't; but, i can assure you that i have.
you can choose to hold onto all that as long as you like; the choice is yours.
that thing you're clinging to will do you far more harm than any others, even its object.
that stuff has a repository. it comes in the shape of a cross:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvkxPdnsSck&feature=related
Jesus, don't cry
You can rely on me honey
You can combine anything you want
I'll be around
You were right about the stars
Each one is a setting sun
Tall buildings shake
Voices escape singing sad sad songs
Tuned to chords strung down your cheeks
Bitter melodies turning your orbit around,
janus
Most saints----and you have to be a saint to forgive gross intentional betrayals that do to you serious damage-----are schizophrenics, neurotics, and obsessive personalities, in other words on the fringe of mania.
Normally adjusted people believe in an eye for an eye. And when they get it, speaking for myself and others I know who have managed to extract an equal or greater measure of that which was done to them are FREE and not "Holding Onto".
Amnesia permanently acquired is about the only way that I can see it working.
And as for doing me harm, what did it, was not being able to figure ouy a way to 'take out' the offenders on my own. That was very frustrating. But it all disappeared when the Bitch Goddess, Justice, really balanced the scales.
I no longer have to hold onto anger, hate, or revenge. It's over.
You should change your avatar name to St. Janus.
I've been drunk before and have raged against the boomers. Apologies, as I respect many of you.
CD's post seems to be targetted not at the sickos at the top, but at forgiving the general enabling, sycophantic populous around us. The "government/corporations are the eyes of god" crowd. I relish hating them. It fills the hole left in alienating myself from their society. It's an addiction I fear if I let go I will have to confront a vast emptiness. Fear is no reason (alone) for anything. Letting go is difficult, but I am only here once, and filling gaps with hate is like burning what is left of your soul to keep yourself warm. It's self cannibalism.
Even for the sickos at the top, what advantage is there to hating them? You think they give a shit about what we think? Indeed, can't you see them laughing at us poor enlightened fools that actually know who to hate and can't do anything about it? You really think you are going to be that guy that gets to hang the bastards?
As for me, my goal is to forgive those around me for their weaknesses and indecision. They will learn soon enough. For those at the top, I will know that they are my enemy and position accordingly. But I'm done giving them mental space that doesn't benefit me at all.
Even for the sickos at the top, what advantage is there to hating them?
What advantage is there to hating anyone?
As for me, my goal is to forgive those around me for their weaknesses and indecision.
Sounds to me more like pity than forgiveness. It's not clear you understand the latter.
He who is forgiven little, loves little. How much do you feel forgiven?
I am probably the last person you would consider that could do harm to another person. But I know that I am capable of losing control over my rage. Pure furor teutonicus, CD. All I can say is that it worries me. So far it has only happened twice in my life. Ah, I did not really hurt someone, luckily. One time I had to defend myself in a fight and my opponent trapped me - then I lost control over everything, pure, burning rage, gaining strengh nobody would have expected and throwing him literally (a guy that was taller than me and heavier) - everyone was totally surprised and even scared for a moment - they thought I would kill the other guy - but I regained control over the situation, fight was over.
No, it worries me. I know that in an extreme situation I can lose control over my rage - turning to a defensive, almost primal mode in order to survive.
The current situation makes me very angry at times. I come from a society that turned from a (dysfunctional) democracy to a dictatorship within few months. From a society wherein the brave citizens destroyed a communist regime (with the help of others). Time and time again the policitians in my country did not listen to the people - in fact they've done everything to prevent a public discussion or that the people vote directly. That makes me furious.
Could there be a situation wherein I have to harm another person?
I am not sure. I don't want to harm another person, but there are situations where I would do it. But how is justice restored when I revenge injustice by commiting another injustice? I cannot just sit there and accept that they destroy the democracy that we have. Of course it does not need to be a violent protest (violence directed at a person or an object of the state).
Would I have killed de Launay? No. Definitely not. But it is hard to tell - how can you trust the same institutions that failed only a few months ago? Sometimes consisting of the same people? That is a challenge - one that was not really resolved in my country.
How can it be that there are people in charge that killed other people at the Wall, CD? How can it be that some of them are still police officers? That worked with STASI? Or were part of the SS?
These are the questions that people will have to face when they bring a system to fall and try to replace it. Like the brave citizens of Egypt. How can they trust the institutions that lied to them? They will have to ask themselves whether it is not better to commit justice directly...
I know today that I will be challenged in the upcoming months and years - I hope - for the sake of myself, that I'll be able to save my soul (not a metaphysical object - more like the inner balance - the peace with yourself) and to do the right thing morally.
I demand justice and I demand that some people have to face court and harsh sentences. I think I am capable of forgiving them then.
Your thinking is flawed:
"....But how is justice restored when I revenge injustice by commiting another injustice?"
Justice is restored when you take your revenge. Revenge is not an injustice, it merely attempts to redress the wrong committed, and reach equilibrium.
Not only that, but it is your responsibility an obligation to seek redress. That is what satisfies the soul. Somehow we think that turning the other cheek has some kind of merit that it is more civilized to, say, kill capital punishment IN PLAINLY FLAT OUT GUILTY CASES, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Somehow, in this cockamamie world, we've lost that supreme tenet, REVENGE, to avoid a coarsening of our civilization. It is not brutal or barbaric to seek revenge; it is approaching, heading up the highway to the godhead.
I would agree with you if you would replace the word revenge with justice or punishment.
Revenge is Justice accompanied by a negative and destructive emotion.
We are better than that.
I've heard that argument before from anti-Death Penalty nutjobs. "We are better..."
What utter bullshit. We are only a few years down the timeline from our predatory ancestors. We are all animals. The thin veneer placed over our nature is as a doily mat on an end table.
Revenge is sweet, not negative in any way, in my experience. There isn't anything wrong with destruction, per se, either. It is cleansing, spiritually purifying. Try using an M16 aimed at an innocuous target if you haven't already. Or take a hammer to a vase you particularly like. Or tear up a hundred dollar bill and burn it. You'll see what I mean. Or not.
If your experience of revenge is different, where you have exacted your revenge and you felt drained by it or not sated, then that doesn't make you better or worse than 'that'. It may mean that you are guilty about something.
The world has in it, very exquisitely sensitive human beans, whose veneer is so fragile that everything pains them. I feel somewhat sorry for these thin-skinned among us,as daily life must be hell for them every time they see those kids with the bad lips in countless photos asking for donations, or the starving children of third world countries, or some enemy get his just desserts.
Then for you the time to forgive is after they have faced court and harsh sentences. My question still stands. When the time comes, will we be able to forgive? Or will we become so consumed by our anger and rage that we will no longer be capable of forgiving and will instead self consume?
It is a reasonable question that elicits strong emotions. That alone is the only reason needed to ask the question.
I fear that the world is pushing people to the breaking point after which the river of blood flows. It will mostly be the blood of those associated with our pain, the low level employees and managers and many who are just in the way.
The PTB pile insult on insult, injustice on injustice and lie about all it all. At the end is likely to be a spasm of violence not seen in generations.
I see where you are coming from. Without the ability to forgive the violence will not stop when the PTB are gone. It stops when there is no one left to kill.
Find yourself a Higher Love and move on. Revenge is a dish best served cold and you all are still too hot headed even in "forgiveness mode." Love your country...love your family. Simply put this type of either revenge or forgiveness is above our pay grade. As Islam teaches "Allah akbar" or "God's will" is the sum total of all this now. And of course a wicked sense of humor cuz "if we can't laugh we will all go insane." plus laughing has the added value of making it seem like you're up to something as well. Which of course we are . We're agitators-for what i'm not sure as of yet however.
From the band 'Sick of it All' - (First Bloods cover is better IHO)
The question they keep asking me
how can one so young be so bitter and angry
well, the answer is plain to see
maybe if they wern't so blind they'd see what i see
i see the homeless livin' out on the street
on every corner they're asking for money
i try to help them whenever i can
but sometimes i can't afford to help myself
i see diseases and modern plagues of our times
the greed of our leaders has made them blind
to our problems
they spend millions overseas,
people right here are fightin' wars everyday
I see the whites that hate the blacks
blacks against the jews, race against religion
and the're all too blind to see
When we fight each other it puts all of them at ease
it keeps us so busy, so they can do what they please
election time comes and they're out for votes
that's when you see and hear from them the most
this is what they're calling a democracy
that's just another word for hypocrisy
we keep fallin' for the bait
when we realize, it's always too late
I see the whites that hate the blacks
blacks that hate the jews, brother against brother
and they're all to blind to see
As the rich get richer, the poor goin' hungry
i've seen the toll it takes on the workingman's family
education system that's obsolete
can't hold a kid's interest or keep 'em off the street
see a father's fear, hear a mother's cry
what kind of a nation lets their children die
government's corrupt and full of red tape
then you're gonna ask me why i hate
Why don't you open up your eyes so you can see
open up your ears so you can hear
take a look around and you will find
take a look around and you will find out why
Will we forgive? Nope. Retrun to Barbarism coming to a town near you. We'll turn on others b4 we turn to look at ourselves. Why? becuase we will hate what we see and it is simpler to blame the outside other.
"Miracles are a part of an interlocking chain of forgiveness which, when completed, is the Atonement. This process works all the time and in all dimensions of time. (example given of Helen's report rewrite for Esther: Esther had hurt something you loved, by writing a report you regarded as very bad. You atoned for her by writing one in her name that was very good. Actually, it was not your responsibility professionally to do this, but because you DO love the Shield you recognized that in this case, you ARE your brother's keeper. While you did not cancel Esther's sin (later defined as "lack of love") you DID cancel out its EFFECTS.
Someday I want to tell Esther that not only is she forgiven but that the effects of all her sins are cancelled. This is what I have already told you. When I can tell her, she will be afraid for a long time, because she will remember many things, consciously or unconsciously, including the Shield report, a lack of love which you cancelled out in advance by a miracle of devotion.
I am in charge of the process of Atonement, which I undertook to begin. My Atonement was for the canceling out of all sins (e., lack of love) which human beings could not otherwise correct. That is what the Biblical statement "underneath are the Everlasting Arms" means. (Helen explanation: This means that He will backstop whenever human miracles will not suffice for atonement purposes. However, it is perfectly clear that when a person can atone by miracles, both giver and receiver are atoning. It is better to atone this way because of the mutual benefits involved.) "Inasmuch as you do it unto the least of these, my children" really ends with "you do it unto yourself and ME." The reason why YOU come before me is because I do not need miracles for my own Atonement, but I stand at the end in case YOU fail temporarily.
SPECIAL EXPLANATION: (In response to Helen request regarding possible corrections.) Change the word "sin" to "absence of love". Sin is a manmade word with threat connotations which he made up himself. No REAL threat is involved anywhere. Just because "nature abhors a vacuum," which is true enough, it does NOT follow that "a vacuum is filled with hellfire." Nothing is gained by frightening yourself, and it is very destructive. Miracles need freedom from fear. Part of their Atonement value involves just that. Note that the word "atone" really means "undo." Urtext, Course in Miracles
Yes, it is a reasonable question, CD. Let's hope it will not end like this:cartoon by James Gillray who sympathized with the French revolution at the beginning.
It seems these questions have been asked for ages. Here is the cartoon that I felt needed to be posted. Thank you.
Man - you are one screwed up person
Lets parse the title of this piece: "When the time comes, will we be able to forgive?"
The following immediate observations spring to mind:
1) When "what" time comes? On a continuum of (metaphorically speaking) being mugged, to having your head blown clean off, what "time" are you talking about?
2) You assume you will be in a position to forgive - or that the "perps" will give a rat's ass either way. What if, for instance, you're living under a bridge, eating scraps? What if "they" want you dead?
3) Seems to me that you're worrying about the dessert, when the main-course hasn't even arrived yet.
4) I get the distinct impression that your main aim with this and other missives, is to resolve some wounded "inner-child" conflict and that topics du jour are used as a foil for this purpose.
So, whilst I must commend you on your new-found brevity, I suggest you now concentrate on bringing some mental discipline to bear in arranging your thoughts in a more focused and coherent manner.
That the last sentiment applies to the majority of ZH posters, goes without saying.
Frankie,
Nice crass response. We are all wounded. We were born that way, and the wounds inflicted by this broken world only mount as the days pass...unless, of course, you live for your fragile ego, which you hide beneath such words as these.
Got you pegged as a criminal banker, logged in and bewildered by actual humanity.
Piss off.
Frankie,
i was thinkin about you last night -- no, simmer down, son...i know you're all a bunch of sodomites up there, twernt' that manner o' thinkin.
you see, janus got a strange phone call out of the clear blue. well, actually, it was more amidst the pitch-black inkiness.
my great-great aunt (96), who's known to be a late-night thinkin owl, calls upon janus, who is known to likewise flock amongst such nocturnal feathers. we'll call her selma, for the sake of this oh-so-freighteningly true narrative.
what follows may shock you as much as it shocked janus (but i doubt it; for it was shocking to the very core -- i wish there were a more electrifying word workin its way through janus's transom right not, cause 'shocking' ain't cuttin the mustard; this news was freakin nuclear (i noticed your aversion to cussin, so janus will respect))
Selma: janus, is that you, dear.
janus: yessam. what's been workin over in Mississippi, aunt selma?
(here we run down family gossip, local deaths and births, the like...)
selma: i hear some nasty rumor that you're thinkin of movin to new york or chicago next year.
janus: yes, mam. i fancy myself a trader these days. and i reckon it's best if i get myself in the stir. you know, so i can plug into that insider information that they send you to jail for unless you hear it from mouth to ear -- they's good about gettin the electronic stuff and holdin it against lil ole lambs like janus. you know how charmin janus is; he'll do just fine once he's nice and settled in.
selma: yes, and your grandfather was equally charming
{here, i'll give a bit of context: janus's grandfather was a bull of a man. he was the starting full-back at Ole Miss before the war. but, judge us if you like, the members of the janus family do not go to war -- we serve in peacetime an all that; but we manage deferments when it comes to live rounds. and, yes, it is strange that a 6'2" 205 lb solid rock would get a medical deferment. but we've still got sour feelins about the civil war -- so, we figure: it's y'alls fight and y'alls blood to spill....best o luck with all that. and, yes, my father spent his time in the ROTC; never a day in vietnam}
janus: please, aunt selma, spare me the comparisons. i've already promised i won't end up like my grandfather.
selma: janus, if you interupt me again, i'll be on the phone with your mother in two-shakes! now, where was i...oh yes, your grandfather was equally charming. and do you want to know a family secret that i think you're old enough to handle?
janus: of course (these are always nice and juicy; especially the ones about grandad)!
selma: well, your grandfather thought it'd be a grand idea to go to new york for a few years, make a fortune and chase around a bunch of lonely women. and this all went according to plan, until your greatgrandfather (who, btw, opened the first phone company in north mississippi) received a telegram.
janus: what did the telegram say?
selma: what did i say about interrupting me? anyway, no one but your greatgrandfather ever saw the text of that telegram. but it was later discovered that your grandfather married a JEWISH!!!!! girl in new york, got her pregnant....and then your greatgrandfather left with lawyer in tow, had it annulled, and that was that. but, if you do go up there to live, i've got some clues i want you to run down. there are some of us that want to know what ever became of that baby.
frankie, if yous be a jew, there is, by my way of reckonin, about a one in 1,750,000 chance we're related.
so, frankie, if you've ever looked at yourself and wondered, 'why am i the way i am? what is so screwed up with me? why will i never be like the others? why do they hate on me just for smiling?' well, my brother, i am most sorry to say that you may be poisoned with janus blood. it is a stain you will NEVER overcome. give up now and relent.
i wish i could say i was making this up...it's all too woefully true. i need to tell this to westvilliageidiot, too.
sorry you had to hear this from, janus. i hope it's not you; for your own good.
PS. Frankie, are you a strict freudian? i'm not asking as a trap -- janus is about as strict a freudian as they come! (i'm thinkin you are)
here's another dedication to new yawk frankie!!! (i think i made it all the way through without a single cuss word... huzzah! for janus)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4m26XgjdA4
yer buddy,
janus
Fascinating & gripping (if rather lengthy) exchange you had with old Aunt Selma there, Janus. Thanks (ahhemmm... cough... cough...) for sharing.
As to the Jewish thing: I've never really thought about it - always considered myself 'Oirish, y'know - a shake off the ol' sod... grew up whistling "Danny Boy" (not Dixie) at every opportunity. Seemed to be sumthin in the ol' genes.
Funny thing is whenever I aXed about the strange haircut or complained about that damn bin-lid-for-a-hat I was forced to wear since time immemorial, I always got a smack upside the head - or across the kisser - with a slab of Geflite fish.
Anyway, judge for yourself - here's a recent photo of "yours truly" (yep - that's me on the right, with my best buddy Mickey "Mike" O'Malley) all kitted-out for the annual "Wearing O' the Green" & St Patrick's Day Parade up 5th Ave.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i.pbase.com/u23/automat42/upload/37024583.WaitingfortheBrooklynFerry.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/image/37024583&h=428&w=600&sz=65&tbnid=zdJ6m2DF-Fou1M:&tbnh=68&tbnw=96&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhasidic%2Bjews%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=hasidic+jews&docid=lWXdJkhSKY4onM&sa=X&ei=PjlnTvj5FI2z8QOA04XjCw&ved=0CEUQ9QEwAg&dur=266
As for the Southern side of things: it was only in later years that the family proctologist revealed on his deathbed that I had a cluster of freckles under my left butt cheek that looked suspiciously like Gen Beauregard's charge at Bull Run (or, if you prefer, First Manassas). So, yes, there appears to be a definite Southern connection there as well.
Probably not worth pursuing - and I certainly don't wannna jump the gun - but was there ever any talk (or even indication) of any kinda inheritance? TIA
one more piece of my family that came up that way and probably broadcast a few rotten seeds went by the name charles killett; he helped you boys (the new york giants) get to the 63 superbowl. he played his collge ball at memphis state. he was an incredible athlete. i'll give away that name cause it was on my mother's side; so it'd be tough to tie it back to janus. anyway, he knew gifford and all those morons. new york was quite a city back then -- i hear crazy rumors you could acutally smoke in restaurants once upon a time (janus won't set foot inside unless he can).
PS. try a brand from holland called Van Nelle Zware (i gave up reds five years ago when i found those puppies; trust me, you'll be so impressed you'll actually thank me)
i plan on movin up that way around may or so next year...find me that reuben!
janus
i'm still shakin with too much laughter to respond with anything that'll come close.
i salute you. i don't think i've ever said this, but you've outdone janus! (only because i was workin from the disadvantage of truth; i'll come back at ya with somethin so salty it'll make that last matzo ball taste like mint candy, it will!)
and, thanks tons, ya feckin mcyid, i'm still gettin over some kind of summer flu -- coughed up .46 of my left lung (i'm fastidious when it comes to measurin my viscera).
in all sincerity, you really are one of the funniest sons a bitchez i've ever had the misfortune to bump into. get ready for a pain in the ass that won't diminish.
the grandfather in question's 'official' wife (who's also, as far as i know, ignorant of said scandal) is in the mid eighties. i'll tell you when to bring those razor sharp hebrew lawyers...bring a couple for me, too -- these lazy foghorn leghorns are terrified of them!
am i chattin with woddy allen? naw, allen ain't got yer spunk, Frankie!
PS you answered my freudian question (and i suspect you knew you would -- it's nothin to be ashamed of)
the artist lives in his own moral universe,
janus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etxhEh1rF-U
JW,
I actually thought of tellin that story to you first. I mean, i reckon we come from the same kind of families (i've been readin you since first i arrived); and i thought you'd get a bigger kick out of that than janus did. I barely slept last night. all the tacky jokes i've told in country clubs in my life...mmm mmm mmm -- serves me right, i guess. Lord of Hosts sure does have a salty sense of humor, don't He? just imagine if you'd gotten such a call -- trust me, it'll jar you to your foundations. and this is from a grandfather that didn't let a sentence escape his mouth without the "n" word puncutating it (but his best friend was a black man...so, go figure).
JW, i'm bettin anything you know my uncle. He's a BULL of a man. bout as big as you. he owns a marina in panama city (among other things), and he puts on all kinds of fishin tournaments and the like (but, if you meet him, DO NOT tell this story -- my father doesn't even know). i'll give you a hint about him; he has a show that comes on every weekend (and, yes, it's paternal...same last name) there in the panhandle; and he used to be a college football star (SMU before the death penalty; and, yes, all the wild stories are true that you hear on ESPN).
hacksaw jim-duggins and rowdy-roddy pipper played ball with him; i've met em' all.
and, i've hung around this man more than my fair share -- i think you and he would get along like peas and carrots (and, yes, his songs are true and he's the baddest mutha fucker janus has EVER run across:
if that ain't country/
i'll kiss yer ass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af5e9IXAaT4
look away, look away, look away,
Janus
I have a friend up in Destin / Fort Walton..
Harbor Docks, Charlie Morgan..
Charlie's Dad worked in Alabama back in the 40's 50's and 60's.
Charlie's Dad had 2 clients back then.
1. Labor / Unions (out of Chicago)
2. Martin Luther King
now, back then.. there was no support for the that Negro with the big mouth running around and stirring up trouble. But as we all better know now.. the man had a pure message that has with stood the test of time and some harsh digging under.
Now I never met the man (Charlie's Dad) and they did finally run him out of town.. but that had more to do with his 1st clients being hog tied by the FBI than anything else.
I will tell you the story.. in a much shorten version of the story.
When Charlie's Dad spoke to Mr. King.. he did not walk away thinking he was an uppity, mouth negro.. he felt the man spoke the truth and more importantly he felt the man was risking everything to do so. Back in those days Mr. King could not afford an Esquire like Charlie's father.. so Mr. King was a pro bono client.
after helping Mr. King in several cases and more inportantly winning.. Charlie's Dad started getting the phone calls.. which lead to a visit.
I guess I should have mentioned that Charlie's Father did a real good job for his clients up north and protected the Unions interests in more than just Alabama.
But to cut to the chase.. a man came knocking on the door one night.. Charlie's Father was a real man.. feared no one but God because he was a rightous man.. went to the door with pistol or shotgun in hand (it doesnt matter which and I forgot) and when he opened the door there was a man he had never seen before.. in a suit.. and not from down here and you know what I mean. so the man asked Charlie's Father to come with him.. there was a big black limo out front.. when Charlie's dad got in the car there was a man, a local man in there with two big fella's on either side of him.. it seems that this man was sneaking around the house and the boys had picked him up.. it also seems that they had been waiting for this to happen.
Long and the short is they had a nice talk with that man and the fells who sent him.. he was more than happy to share why he was sneaking around Charlie's home.
In the end.. Charlie's Father defended a lot of people.. and helped the entire Country.. but he was hated and Traitor for doing it. I know how Charlie suffered growing up being the son of that man that made our country a better place.. Key Word "MADE" because it was better after he fought the entire system and won.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/08/AR2009010803695.html
stop in and see Charlie as you seem to be on that side of the State more often than me.. Tell'em JW sent ya!
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
It was a Southern Gentleman who stood up for Mr. King against all odds..
1 man (with a little help) made all the difference in the World.
I never claimed to be that kind of man.. but I damn sure will stand watch! for those kinds of men!! to help push thru what is true and correct and for the benefit of all.
JW,
I knew what you were about...and my heart gushes for the people of gaza and the west bank. but, i'm doin this for now:
they gave us time down here to do the right thing...we failed to do it. bigger power had to step in in defense of the powerless.
now, i'm willing to let J Street and the rest of the world's Good Jews fight it out amongnst themselves. i'm gonna keep my mouth shut for a while (cause i, like you, know that we wasps have been using the jew as our pawnbroker and scapegoat for 400+ years; and we're damned good at the game. but, facts is facts, the treatment of the pals. is inhumane (people of israel, there is no past against which you can scale your 'practical' bigotry; the world judges according to contemporary standards!!! we may as well go back to paterfamilias days...hell, further still -- why not eye for an eye...oh, wait, that is the standard you're using to avenge the 'crimes' of the impotent. but, i digress, i said i would keep quiet for a while; and keep quiet i intend to BUT NOT FOREVER!!!)
Israel, don't force THE power to come in and negotiate on your behalf -- you may not find the terms to your liking. Show mercy now; it'll weigh in your favor when the books come to a final tally.
yes, i know the family VERY well (and they are true-blue; through and through). i'm plugged into the panhandle -- but my reach doesn't extend past tallahassee. it's all yankee-ville south from there...bunch a sniveling pussies who think they can write letters and call congressmen. little do they know that boys like us (kinda like eric robert rudolph -- i don't support what he did; but i think his escape was hilarious) can fight in the streets, in the woods and in the wide-ass open. and we can survive FOREVER with a 22 a knife and an IRON WILL. you know the time for letter writin is OVER when the JWs and januses come out of the woodwork.
the fight has to move from race to poverty; and some people aren't able to come to terms with the dynastic shift underway (the SPLC is one of em that can't seem to get that through their heads -- in my backyard).
the times they are a changin,
janus
When 'what' time comes indeed.
Forgiveness is reserved for the ones I love. The narcissus gets only my pity for the self loathing.
What we do to others we do to ourselves.
"Do not underestimate the power of devotion of God's Son, nor the power the god he worships has over him. For he places himself at the altar of his god, whether it be the god he made (ego->self-made image) or the God who created him (God->Soul). That is why his slavery is as complete as his freedom, for he will obey only the god he accepts.
The god of crucifixion (the ego), demands that he crucify, and his worshippers obey. In his name they crucify themselves, believing that the power of the Son of God is born of sacrifice and pain.
The God of resurrection demands nothing, for He does not take away. He does not require obedience, for obedience implies submission. He would only have you learn your will and follow it, not in the spirit of sacrifice and submission, but in the gladness of freedom." GOD OR THE EGO, p. 208, Course in Miracles
Jesus fucking Christ.
Come on CD you didn't really expect a response other that "String 'em up on the lamp posts!" did you. You might plant a seed here but forgiveness is like wine, it's got to ferment then age.
I always sow my seeds too early and sometimes I lose some to a late frost. But my garden, among all those in town, is always the first to feed.
It's so much easier to forgive when the belly is full and the mind settled.
Being early is better than being late, brother Cog. It means you are thinking, you are alive, and you are preparing. Better this than to be the deer in the headlights.
Not fair CD! You get to post nice pics to help make your points.
It's good to be KING. :>)