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From Currency Debasement To Social Collapse: 4 Case Studies
At its most fundamental level, SocGen's Dylan Grice notes that economic activity is no more than an exchange between strangers. It depends, therefore, on a degree of trust between strangers. Since money is the agent of exchange, it is the agent of trust. Debasing money therefore debases trust. Grice emphasizes that history is replete with Great Disorders in which social cohesion has been undermined by currency debasements. The multi-decade credit inflation can now be seen to have had similarly corrosive effects. Yet central banks continue down the same route. The writing is on the wall. Further debasement of money will cause further debasement of society. Dylan, like us, fears a Great Disorder.
Selected extracts from Dylan Grice
If the authorities raise taxes explicitly and openly, voters know exactly why they have less spending power. They also know how much less spending power they have. But if the authorities instead raise money by simply printing it, they raise the revenue by stealth. No one knows upon whom the burden falls. People notice only that they can't afford the things they used to be able to afford, or they can't afford the things which everyone else can afford. They know that something is wrong, but they just don't know what, why, or who is to blame. So inevitably they look for someone to blame.
So it is with monetary debasement, as Keynes understood deeply (so deeply, in fact, that it?s ironic so many of today's crude Keynesians support QE so enthusiastically). In 1921 he said:
“By a continuing process of inflation, Governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some …. Those to whom the system brings windfalls …. become “profiteers” who are the object of the hatred … the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery .. Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.”
History is replete with Great Disorders in which currency debasement has coincided with social infighting and scapegoating. This debasement of currency also coincided with a debasement of society. Factions grew more suspicious of one another. Communities fragmented. And one part of the community bore the brunt of the fears.
Third Century Roman inflation (and implicit currency debasement) sparked a rapid turnover of emperors as the scapegoating over the systemic debasement saw Romans turned on Christians with a great violence which lasted throughout the period of the currency debasement but peaked with Diocletian's edict of 303 AD. The edict decreed, among other things, that Christian meeting places be destroyed, Christians holding office be stripped of that office, Christian freedmen be made slaves once more and all scriptures be destroyed. Diocletian's earlier edict, of 301 AD, sought to regulate prices and set out punishments for 'profiteers' whose prices deviated from those set out in the edict.
A similar dynamic seems evident during Europe's medieval inflations, only now, the confused and vain effort to make sense of the enveloping turmoil saw the blame focus on suspected witches. The following chart shows the UK price index over the period with the incidence of witchcraft trials. Note the peak in trials coinciding with the peak of the price revolution.
Were the same dynamics at work during the French Revolution of 1789? The narrative of Madame Guillotine and her bloody role is well known. However, the execution of royalty by the Paris Commune didn't begin until 1792, and the Reign of Terror in which Robespierre's Orwellian sounding 'Committee of Public Safety' slaughtered 17,000 nobles and counterrevolutionaries didn't start until well into 1793. In the words of guillotined revolutionary Georges Danton, this is when the French revolution 'ate itself'. But the coincidence of these events to the monetary debasement is striking. The political violence was justified in part by blaming nobles and counter-revolutionaries for galloping inflation in food prices.
However, the most tragic of all the inflations in my opinion, and certainly the starkest example of a society turning on itself was the German hyperinflation.
Like other Axis countries on the wrong side of the War and now in the grip of hyperinflation, Germany turned viciously on its Jews.
It blamed them for the surrounding evil as Romans had blamed Christians, medieval Europeans had suspected witches, and French revolutionaries had blamed the nobility during previous inflations.
So I keep wondering to myself, do our money-printing central banks and their cheerleaders understand the full consequences of the monetary debasement they continue to engineer? Inflation of the CPI might be a consequence both seen and measurable. A broad inflation of asset prices might be a consequence seen, though not measurable. But what about the consequences that are unseen but unmeasurable - and are all the more destructive for it? I feel queasy about the enthusiasm with which our wise economists play games with something about which we have such a poor understanding.
And now the social debasement is clear for all to see. The 99% blame the 1%; the 1% blame the 47%; the private sector blames the public sector, the public sector returns the sentiment - the young blame the old, everyone blame the rich - yet few question the ideas behind government or central banks...
All I see is more of the same - more money debasement, more unintended consequences and more social disorder.
Source: SocGen
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the third century roman thing was a partial collapse. btw the western empire went down in the fifth, the eastern in the fifteenth
the medieval turmoils with the witch trials perhaps/arguably, because anybody could be targeted or feel so
the French Revolution was exactly that: a Revolution. IMO a violent change in society, not a collapse. was the American Revolution a social collapse? If yes, I rest my case and book it on my bad English
the German Hyperinflation ended 1922-23. Hitler was freely elected in 1933. And while it was shitty for the "undesirables" of the regime all public services worked until the war-front hampered them.
my problem is perhaps that I see "social collapse" as a stronger cataclysm as war
Open ass, insert head.
I hope you succeeded in that contortion! There are certainly some dumb fucking sheep in this thread ... all buying into the 'meme of the moment'!!
If you think the world wars in Europe were "organized" affairs, I submit to you that you know no history, have watched too many movies and are a twit.
ever been in a war zone? I'm just asking "what social collapse"? if it's the same as war, why not say so? is a civil war not "messier" than a "normal" war? so I'm asking: messier than a war? why and how? based on four examples that are not "messier" than a war?
Your first +1s were from me, Ghordie. I don't often agree with you, but on this topic I'm in full agreement with you: The social collapse which we are about to face is an entirely different beast to the situations pertaining at the outbreaks of WW2, WW1, or any of the other wars/revolutions of previous centuries discussed above.
The stupid is high in this thread! +2 to -34 for your initial comment is absolutely astounding to me! Maybe it's time for me to depart this forum and go on a search for signs of any remaining intelligent life on the planet!
Germany was not in social collapse at the outbreak of WW2. It had already recovered from the social collapse of one to two decades earlier and actually posed a confident and economic threat to the other 'great' powers in Europe -- particularly France, but also to the British navy. As you say, both WW2 and WW1 were 'engineered' wars for geopolitical purposes that were related to certain hidden ambitions, rather than simply a diversion from chaos in the societies of one or more of the initiating belligerents.
This time is no different: ZATO has been itching for war with Iran since well before 9-11, well before Al CIAda, and well before the dot.com bubble burst. That's three bubbles and two political paradigms ago now ... with two intervening periods of economic euphoria rather than any perceived, or evident, social collapse from currency debasement!!
I know the geopolitical reasons for the war mongering (and have stated them here before), but I won't divert the conversation by going into them again (since we disagree on those reasons).
"mindless slaughter of millions, yes, but not a "social collapse""
WTF does that mean? People still said "Bless you" when somebody sneezed?
Ahh....another man who never let's the facts get get in the way of a good story. I'll see you in the FEMA camps... Or what ever facility they have prepared for you in Europe.
well, here I'm at loss. we have limited prison space to 0.1% of the population(s) - one in a thousand - here in europe
I have still no clue how our dear American Cousins reached 2% but it seems a lot of free enterprise and corruption is involved in it
nevertheless I still have no clue why anybody should be fearful of being put in a "FEMA camp". sedition? rebellion?
although to be honest I know from history that setting up concentration camps is a quick affair that needs little preparation
IMH and ignorant O this FEMA provisioning of bullets is just a corrupt mad gov spending spree
Usually mad corrupt government spending sprees involve items like paper clips and sticky notes. It's not very often you hear them buying hollow points or sniper rounds.
For some reason or beloved officials seem to think that smoking a joint is a prison offense. Remove some of the silliness from the equation and the prison population would be much lower.
The only thing you need to know is that, when asked, they said the hollow-points were for "target practice." Says it all.
Dr. Engali, you have to admit that there is a much stronger lobbying power on the side of Ike's Military-Complex than on the side of the paper clips and sticky notes producers.
I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just a likely explanation for me.
My impression is that little bundles of cash are being transferred from Private Prisons Managers and Owners to Judges. This would explain the reasons.
Now this is a good explanation for putting people in camps. Cash. But as a biz it has some limits in how much resources can be diverted for it. I'd say 3%, max.
I have to admit quite a lot of ignorance on this matter - found out lately here on ZH about the existing prisons. Bank Guy in Brussels was complaining about it.
I understand your point. However, realize that none of the Europeans were ever as armed privately as the Americans are today. We're talking citizens with their won private arsenals of army grade weaponry including tanks. When the shit hits the fan in the US, there is no hiding place. The Mexican drug war triangle seems a safer place than the Continental US at that time.
Then let me enlighten you, because your history seems to be broken today. Over the course of 200 years, the folks who run the US have:
Organized the deportation of an entire race to desolate wastes and forced them to stay there are gunpoint (Native Americans)
Ghettoized every Chinese immigrant arriving until the 40s (Chinatowns)
Arranged for the mass arrest and deportation of every American citizen of Japanese descent from the Lower 48 and imprisoned them by the tes of thousands under specious and fraudulent gov't writs and with the complicity of the Supreme Court.
Actively attacked latter day heretics and fringers in Waco and Ruby Ridge, among others.
Seized lawfully owned weapons during Katrina and treated those too foolish to leave on their own power like cattle.
Oh, and a Philly cop punched a chick in the face after someone else splashed him with water.
So while you over there in Europe have had nothing but candy cane and lollipops since the Pax Romana {sic}, Americans have something of a right to view their government's actions with a due sense of alarm and foreboding. All of this has happened before and all of this shall happen again.
A bit over ten, maybe twelve years ago I had an interesting conversation with an old German guy I met at the firing range. He had been testing out his new 1911. He had lived through late 1920s, early thirties Weimar Germany. He wanted to tell me all about it and I let him unload a little bit for a while. His story was bad, as in, really bad. And maybe it wasn't a tale of total social collapse, it was much too close to that to be anything I would ever want to experience. And he swore that he was never going to go through it again unarmed.
Don't tell Ghordius. It would burst his painfully constructed fiction of European history. After all, what that gentleman experienced was what we call "organized."
some men value honesty and honor over expedience and lies
some men create rather than live on the largesse of other's work and taxation
this does not infer that these men meet the future reality with glee, but with perservation
And perserverance.
Wait, I thought it was the Austrian view that wasn't supported by history. So weird.
I suspect that in the next regime, "excess" wealth will be confiscated under the argument that how can one have so much while so many have not.
The 1%'ers could find themselves on trial for being wealthy.
Crazy times....
If the current people in power have their way, it'll be the 9,9% that have wealth confiscated and put on trial. Strangely, the 0.1% won't experience this and will become even wealthier.
Beware the sleight of hand of a "regime change."
We need a 5th more recent case study. We shall learn about this as we do it to make sure all is still relevant. No point in sticking with past observations that may no longer apply. LOL.
British Witch Trials...very small rocks!
I got better.
That's funny I don't recall you ever looking like a newt.
Average lifetime of a Fiat currecy? 39 years. Years since Dickhead Nixon slammed the gold window on August 15 of 1971? 41
Link to see MANY currencies that have been recently revalued (scroll to bottom of page)
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/d-sherman-okst/like-a-thief-i...
F - Fucked
U - Up
B - Beyond
A- All
R- Recognition
I always thought R is "Repair". Regardless, I certainly Recognize that we are irrevtievably *cked.
You're probably right. :/
"Recognition" was how they used it in "Saving Private Ryan." It's said many ways and all has the same meaning - "Fucked Up"
This was a good piece. And the answer to the question is yes... The money printers know exactly what they are doing. It's all part of the plan and its proceeding along nicely.
But Slavery death and destruction is what the elites actually want. It's immensely profitable for the Rothchilds Elites to push nations to the ultimate brink....all the fiat debasement is carried interest in their minds.....the death and destruction, a form of population control....
New low for Zero Hedge, worse than Business Insider.
Good grief!
What site to do you prefer?
Common Nonsense Before Crash ?
No a new low for Zero Hedge is letting you in off the front porch.
If you're disappointed in this site, this will really upset you:
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/10/02/ikea-to-sell-only-led-li...
"Ikea to Sell Only LED Lighting by 2016"
This shit aint hard to figure out!
The problem is we have a bunch of lazy minded fucks in this country who make a choice not to see the batman sized warning in the sky and they choose to stay as ignorant as possible. Blubber boo boo is on the tv lets go sit down and shut down our mind for thirty minutes and watch some fat fucked idiot porpose sized rug rat talk gibberish that only her whale of a mother can comprehend. This
This whole economy is a hot mess! Lets just go 4 wheelin to the dump a get lunch.
New low for American TV. What's the point of making a TV show about the average American degenerate? It's not cute, it's not educational and it's not even the slightest bit entertaining. The producers must be crack addicts.
Trust is something what greedy and power-hungry ignorants are always underestimating. They treat people and economy as sort of mechanical equipment with more or less predictable input-output. While this is certainly true in a narrow range of normal circumstances, it becomes highly unreliable beyond that range. Gradual erosion of trust is hardly detectable because of it's relative invisibility. Sadly, once it becomes apparent it's usually too late. Ironically enough, trust is the only thing the ponzi scheme can effectively rely on.., which means the scheme is inherently flawed.
A real advantage of gold money over fiat currency is its value-independence on trust or other forms of social turbulence.
Absolutely. By the way, I have some 100-oz PAMP bars at home. Interested?
Frankly, I feel pity for the reputable PAMP to have been attacked this way.
Same goes for climate change, peak oil, fishery collapses, soil degradation, water shortages, sneak attacks, baby boom retirements, ocean acidification, and so on.
About time more realized if we'll lie about money, we'll lie about sex, politics, markets and money...
The winds of change are starting to blow stronger. Like I have said many times before.......the 1% don't have enough money to buy proper security to keep them safe. Karma will be a bitch for them. heh heh
Yes they understand it; it's Obama's goal
And so, inflation this time will see the masses turn on the rich.
I'd assume the rich would just leave and make them work for themselves I guess :)
I'm sure some other country is already making laws to help them establish a more 'USA like' environment so they can benefit from the influx of trillions in wealth!
You however, are completely worthless.
Hi all,
I am new to this site and I really enjoy it- it has enlightened me on many things and increased my knowledge of economics. I actually just graduated from college with an Econ degree and it didn't teach me shit compared to this website.
So I am wondering if anyone could explain how inflation benefits the government?
Thanks guys.
Whoever spends printed money first gets the best value, because money does not dilute the currency until it passes into general circulation. So govts that get to spend newly printed dollars before anyone else on hard assets can consolidate wealth and power while everyone else has to suffer with a dilutive currency.
You are due a refund on that Econ degree...
Look at the definition of inflation. then the definition of fiat currency. Cui Bono?
Ok makes sense thanks guys . This is some fucked up shit that for 40gs a year they are barley shedding light on. Atleast I can pay off my loans easier now tho
No kidding fu fu. Thanks for the clarification every1
I'm a junior econ major myself, and have gotten nothing but neo-Keynesian spewing profs, so I can relate.
Inflation benefits the govt because it dilutes the debts, and transfers wealth to the reckless borrowers and consumers. It's like with the housing bubble; the people who actually were responsible and calculated accurately/cared enough to live within their means and made their mortgage payments see all these NINJA borrowers get refi-ed and bailed out, and then the moral hazard kicks in with less incentive to keep integrity.
Govt also benefits via seigniorage, which is pretty much that they pay themselves for 'making the money.'
In truly free markets, liquidation asserts itself when there has been too much speculation and too much leveraging, and prices go down, and things are tough for awhile in hunker down mode, but at least the purchasing power goes up, and eventually people learn their lessons and rebuild their balance sheets, and the rottenness is purged. Govt doesn't like deflation, because the pols won't get elected for telling the truth, and instead keep promising pensions and free stuff. They just inflate things away by printing the difference between spending and tax revenues, and the taxes pay the interest to the Fed for the pleasure of getting to have that money printed, so that is obviously corrupt.
In general, too, the Washington-Wall Street complex likes inflation because when those fresh Benjamins are printed, they get first dibs and get to speculate and spend it before it has circulated. Eventually prices go up, but they already have their positions/are hedged, while Main Street pays the price of inflation (which is a way, way higher than the CPI and its bogus hedonics would tell you). Inflation is theft, just like taxation is, only inflation is easier for govts to do because they aren't actually taking nominal money away from somebody; they are just diluting it, which is every bit of immoral.
You overpaid for that degree.
"I am recent graduate and I aspire to work as a trader or on institutional sales desk. These is very serious dream of mine and this website is great way to educate my self and become familiar with the industry and economics by conversing with the knowledgable members on this website."
I go to a pretty good school and the econ majors I know have no idea about the corrupt Federal Reserve and how the govt lies about everything. They are in the Keynesian matrix, and they then all want to go into i-banking for JPM, Barc, etc.
I myself want to go into wealth management. King of out of left field, but does anyone have any ideas how I could get into this? I want to be like a consultant who helps people preserve wealth, and I would truly think I am making a difference by helping those on fixed incomes hedge against diluted savings with PMs and commodities. No desire to be some propagandist trying to sell stocks and tell people there are still intricacies such that I am worth their money for 'expertise' in picking stocks when pretty much the whole thing is systemic-either the markets are down or they're up, save for like earnings season some unique things, and obviously there is a lot of lying and channel stuffing and 'beat the Street' nonsense even then.
I want to genuinely help people, and I think I could be a good salesman for a PM dealer by ability to explain to people all the reasons why PMs are vital to HOLD, and like tell them, yes, saving is what needs to be done, but what are you saving in? Dollars that are getting devalued like crazy by ctrl + p? Sales is looked down on but I wouldn't be selling snake oil. Gotta do something I can live with.
Am thinking consulting with forecasting and studying things like why silver is so valuable what with monetary metal obviously but also unique tech./chemical properties would be where I'd like to be.
Learn how to make things.
Obviously self-sufficiency/having a value-adding skill is what it's about. After frosh year I worked at a solvent processing machine company that did things for Seagate that immerse like hard drives in these acids. I wasn't an engineer or anything, and I was just there doing mechanical assembly and drilling into stainless steel frames (they custom built these based on clients'-mostly Asians-needs), and inventory. Saw what a real small business is about and value that.
This last summer I just did freelance and advertised myself and found jobs consistently just via craigsilst. Learned a lot about negotiating pay rates, and did things from painting exteriors of home (had no prior experience before this summer) to mowing, weeding, laying sod, and other things. I had a nice niche being that I wasn't a contractor, but was able to do some landscaping as well as the predominate projects that require sheer manpower for which people just need help on a certain day. I also would wheel and deal with electronics, buying low and selling high. Also umpired baseball games for youth leagues-pay is good and one learns a lot about dealing with criticism and explaining things when one is on his own like that job is.
I'm not an engineer, and not very sciencey, so I'm just looking to find my niche as far as my economic awareness of how propped up this whole thing is and how I can genuinely help people. Not everyone can devote a lot of time to seeing the big picture of economics (especially the REAL one, that is much worse than this MSM-hyped 'fiscal cliff') and not everybody is aware of the abandonment of capitalism, and I'd like to just, with integrity, help people know the truth and hedge accordingly for kleptocratic govts/banking cartels trying to confiscate wealth and American values.
And when I say people aren't aware, it's not really an excuse. I'm just pointing out that people are going about their business, and that's hard enough turning a profit (especially with red tape and taxes) and they respond to incentives and unfortunately the engagement in politics that is there mostly funnels into the false dichotomy/divide and conquer setup when both establishment parties still spend into oblivion, obliterate liberties/Constitution. I hope to be a part of convincing people that while America still has great entrepreneurs, what is going on now is mediocre and is just getting worse. As I said, gotta do something I can live with. And being in the business of PMs/consulting concerning them and other commodities, and forecasting, seems like it'd be a fit. Helping the middle class. How to make that happen, who knows? When I said it's kind of 'out of left field', I was saying I know this is an anonymous forum and not some job help place, but ZH is kind of a free for all and was wondering if anybody had any advice.
You're asking about a career that would have been good back in the mid to late 90's. Shit is much farther along than you realize; fuu is correct, learn a useful, low tech trade, save like a madman (in phys), and prepare for life like you're intending to be Amish. Dead fucking serious friend, and I have a lot at stake in this present environment, so please don't dismiss this as "crazy crackpot", this is reality that has been in motion for several years now and is accelerating.
I hear you. I am thankful I am awake like most on websites like this are, but in the meantime I'm just trying to figure out how to balance that prepping mentality with also needing to live life one day at a time. I just need to trust in the Lord because He hath already given us the victory, and evil has been defeated at the cross, even though it will get to have its time here on earth for a finite period.
It's a challenge to balance this all, actually. Everyone thinks I'm pessimistic and just looking for reasons to conjure up fear, but I'm not. I go to a 'good college' for whatever that's worth and it's like I'm on an island. Somebody else said this one time on here, and if I also were to say 'zero hedge' to my peers, they would look at me like I just said something stupid, or else as though I were talking about landscaping and trimming the hedge all the way.
It's not that nobody is doing anything constructive where I'm at (although most of it is indeed statist-based, anti-American, ungodly ideas and lifestyles promoted). It's just that as they're focused on learning how business accounting and all that works in the kind of econ courses I'm taking, and again I find myself on an island because, while I don't pretend to know when this all crashes-and I'm not talking about the MSM-hyped 'fiscal cliff, either-I know this whole thing is propped up and that if the market were allowed to function and liquidate the excesses and obliterate reputations of what right now are viewed as 'solid institutions' in the current cognitive dissonance, it would be total breakdown of 'civilized' society. And I am in the camp with the Austrians that says defaults are needed, right this instant, because prolonging it won't work, and the creditors will just realize that getting paid in hyper-depreciating dollars is the same as not getting paid at all. Pain is going to come, and people do need to recognize this and deal with it, because it is so immoral to keep going into debt and saddling future generations.
I still have to plan for the future and with how to make a living, but along with your points, I will fight this corporatist/consumerist culture no matter how much ridicule I may receive. I do not bet, but I seriously would take the under on one other student at this university having an ounce of precious metals that he bought himself in acknowledgement of the ever-diluted dollar. The adjusted accordingly over/under figure probably doesn't change much, either, when one looks at all people in society.
I should say I'm still able to go about my business and do the things I need to, but it is hard to describe how different things become when ones knows the truth. And I'm at that point where I do have to make big decisions.
If I might ask, what is the basis for your take that you have a 'lot of stake'? You sound like Lindsey Williams almost.
PMs are real money and do not need a salesman. So long as clowns like G. Gordon Liddy are having to pimp PMs on TV means the game is still in effect. The recommendation of the guy that you learn to make stuff is right on. Time for people to make honest livings and not resort to "service industry" bullshit. Economist should not be a fucking job, it's a hobby at best.
In a sound economy not based on borrow and consume but actually savings and investment, there is obviously going to be a manufacturing stronghold and maximization of productivity of the abundance of natural resources into useful things. Not everybody has to make things, though, in the physical sense. There is a place for consultants to swing big mergers and things like that that help gain economies of scale and thus profitability. I think you have the right mindset, but be careful about insistence on 'making things', as though anybody else not physically doing the welding, assembling, etc. is just a drag on the system. That path leads to Ricardian labor theory of value. Value-added definitely can be shown by those rewarded in the market place who are good at assessing prospective projects and findings ways to negotiate and whatnot.
I agree the whole paradigm of central planning and people thinking it just takes the right people running the show right now is just horrific and totally conceited. People either not well versed in differentiating capitalism from corporatism, or with biased interests in the Keynesian system think these economists what with all their phds and whatnot are de facto TBTF as far as people not questioning them, in cognitive dissonance style even after we see examples like the housing bubble that only the marginalized Austrians called, and the MSM/conventional view becomes surely they know what is best as far as interest rates and things like that. Even those who may have studied econ almost assuredly got a totally Keynesian-dominated teaching, so they don't question the status quo, either.
I want to do something that adds value and that I can live with as far as my values and principles.
Sorry to reiterate, but you are still "in the matrix" without realizing it.
"I think you have the right mindset, but be careful about insistence on 'making things', as though anybody else not physically doing the welding, assembling, etc. is just a drag on the system. That path leads to Ricardian labor theory of value. Value-added definitely can be shown by those rewarded in the market place who are good at assessing prospective projects and findings ways to negotiate and whatnot."
I agree that this will eventually become a viable career path for you, but not for a few decades.
I am definitely not in 'the matrix,' and I know what is meant by 'matrix,' too. Yes, if things deteriorate then in the really hunker down, self-sufficiency time, things and abillity to do things will be re-valued as people realize what is a need and what is a want. I'm on the same page with you there.
In a healthy, free market environment, that is part of the incentive to innovate and take risks, the ability to eventually own a business and not have to do the more menial labor. People don't want to work. Strictly speaking, work is not what is wanted; it is the things of value that are wanted that raise standards of living. Hard day's work does instill priceless values, no doubt, but just in general, it is about productivity, and if one becomes really good at something, then he will be rewarded with profit and then maybe not have to do the physical labor and instead can move onto growing the company or whatever other endeavors. People work their way up.
Just trying to clarify my take. Just was red-flagging the possibility that some people start to go down the labor theory of value route. I do definitely agree that manufacturing is the backbone. People do enjoy services, and it's fine to have them for leisure and whatnot. But not if it's like this phony U.S. setup in which services dominate. People haven't earned their keep to merit consuming all that.
Ahem...
I graduated BA Hons Economics in 1984 and only recently realised that EVERYTHING I was taught was a lie. Kinda slow learner, huh?
Let me simplify it for y'all.
"Vote for me for More Free Stuff"
===ends===
Now I'm confused ... Bernanke and Geithner are nobility ... or witches?
A: Nobility
B: Witchezz
C: Mother Fuckers
D: All of the Above
C!
There is a 5th, more recent, example of economic and societal collapse.
Argentina.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis_(1999%E2%80%932002)
Cheers!
A technically and scientifically proficient society suffering from severe form of social infantilism; a strange output of 'enlightened developed rationalist' society we are being so prideful of. I think, once we recover from it we'll have to revamp our values from scratch.
The 99% blame the 1%; the 1% blame the 47%
I find it interesting the widely held belief that the 1%=Republicans. I didin't realize Buffett, Gates and Soros were GOPers :)
http://www.muzu.tv/pixies/debaser-music-video/671739/
No problemo. Its already set up.
The scapegoats this time around are the Muslims.
Nothing to do with the tribe who actually caused/profited from it.
Go figure...
So you prefer to scapegoat the Joooooooooooooooooooozzzzzzzzzzzzzz instead of the Muslims? I guess you missed the whole point about societies turning upon their own as being a bad thing.
F for originality, BTW.
Yep they understand 100& + exactly what they are doing but do not know the consequences with certainty. They have the weoponry, the military and the underground facilities to weather it out when TSHTF. All they can do really though is to take peoples money and bribe others to do their bidding. Once that is over, which appears to be soon, they won't be able to do anything except head for the hills and pray. The FED, banksters and the kings and queens, the royality that make up the NoWorldOrder anarchists are afraid they will be brought to justice when this blows over. So have your preparations completed. It will be a cold winter.
It seems the Mayans were correct? tidying up loose ends and NOOSE ends should soon end a 5200-year-old cycle of incredibly evil Forces on this planet. Messy, yes, but cleansing in the end.
Kinda like a Global Coffee Enema, huh?
the historical thread of Economia and its older sister Politicia are visited once again by ZH.
The interaction of political CAUSES and economic consequences, or VICE VERSA, is the eternal debate. What constitutes the driving force and what constitutes reaction, once the die is cast.
Do kings act to impose their vision and will; or do economic circumstances make them bend to the realities of the moment to seek their pre-eminence?
Its the time line of western civilization and since the Industrial revolution the debate has moved in favour of the latter thesis as the innovative barons of capitalism have created this world of today; where civil liberties have been very cherished by the leading nations; notably after the demise of Imperial/despotic Europe nation-state/colonial empires.
That is the history of Pax Americana. It carried high the flag of private enterprise initiative over statist intervention and global schemes of imperial vision; until it fell victim to the same hubris; post Nov 22 1963, ostensibly.
This change of mindset made the political/industrial elite more and more "global empire" and control oriented, like the older european constructs.
And, as all these historical threads of the past amply show, there is nothing new under the sun.
Unfortnuately, those who fall to hubris find it very difficult to change from within; except through implosion of their own dreams and the mayhem that then prevails.
Its a sobering conclusion on the state of our species, and bodes an ominous future.
"do our money-printing central banks and their cheerleaders understand the full consequences of the monetary debasement they continue to engineer?"
Krugman, you there m8?
lex
rex
Debasement of trust, debasement of society - that's about the size of it.
China lost grib to Communist exactly in the period of hyper-inflation 1946-1949.
absolutely fantastic read,... a lot more questions raised than answers- makes for an archived inquisition of the mind? funny, how some things never change, that is... money has always been the root of mankind's evil twin...
thankyou Dylan
The bailouts were a 55 yard field goal can kicking. So collapse is still 5 to 15 years away. The internet makes us see time as passing faster than it does.
For the next year wealth should continue to concentrate into the stock market, where capital gains taxes are low and dividends are high, paid by the owners of the government and the world: Corporations.
The United States is a military power much more dominant than Rome or Persia ever were. The global reach of lawyers, military, and media control is also a new development impossible in ancient times. The United States prints its own money which is very likely the last shoe in the world to drop.
What's left is a long and painful wait for the bears, who have enjoyed modest success for 10 years. It's the bulls' turn for the next year, squeezing the last shorts with a massive influx of money fleeing from treasuries.
You're painting the best case scenario though.
No discretion for wars, revolutions, civil war, EU breakup, Grexit / Gerxit, US fiscal cliff and election outcome?
Bush's Afghanistan war is being talked up by generals as ending soon. No way Israel gets an Iran invasion without Romney as president. Money printing will continue to work as long as U.S. pays the interest on the debt. It's not important that default is guaranteed 20 years from now. Can kicking will win, property prices will continue to fall. Corporations will issue more bonds and receive free money to go around buying stuff, fire more people.
U.S. stock market is about to see some inflation. But Apple will not keep up with overall market gains.
No use being an early bear in the middle of a rally to DOW 21,000.
http://cluborlov.com
http://countbitcoin.com
"The United States is a military power much more dominant than Rome or Persia ever were."
That is not true, the US is unable to win any larger war since WW2. The US lost in Vietnam, Iraq is lost, Afghanistan is a defeat.
Good at winning battles, also good at losing wars.
Dr Strangebernank: http://youtu.be/ICPmZkK3PaY
MANY people on this site still blame the JOOOOOOOOZZZzzz.
Dr Strangebernank: Da Fed Loves You Ya Ya Ya Yahhhhh. http://youtu.be/ICPmZkK3PaY
Here's the DEATH announcement of a former traditional German company that started in the Fifties.
http://neckermann.de/
The Company stopped all operations at the end of September after declaring bankruptcy in July.
Sun Capital Partners pulled the plug.
At the same time, some German economic institute is prophesizing massive growth for Germany in 2013.
So much bullshit, so little time.
FWIW, the DOW is down and well below the manipulated +80 PRE-open from yesterday morning. In other words, the fuckers can pump the markets higher and nobody is making any gains.
DO NOT CHASE THIS MARKET
This is just fine, now we just a need to find a way to blame it all on Iran. Or maybe the Russians or Chinese.
This analysis seems a bit simplistic in its depiction of the relationship of debasing currency with violence. Surely we could have a more indepth look at other causes for the violence. The blame game will not solve anything either.
So long as the food stamps don't bounce
We are in the midst of one huge game. Most of us play by the rules, but there are a handful that don't. Every time the little guy scores they want to change the rules so it can benefit them. We continue to play this game and everytime we think were going to win, they change the rules. This will continue until eventually we realize there is only one way to win the game. Simply don't play it. Don't bank at their establishments. Don't buy their food, or watch their mind altering shows Don't use their fiat currency. Once man realizes, the only power they have over us is what we give them, the game is over.
Honest trade is impossible without objective standards of measure. It's like you suspect a carpenter of cheating you on the size of your new garage, but you can't be sure because all rulers are made of Silly Putty.