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Is This Why Americans Have Lost The Drive To "Earn" More

Tyler Durden's picture




 

In the recent past we noted the somewhat startling reality that "the single mom is better off earning gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045." While mathematics is our tool - as opposed to the mathemagics of some of the more politically biased media who did not like our message - the painful reality in America is that: for increasingly more Americans it is now more lucrative - in the form of actual disposable income - to sit, do nothing, and collect various welfare entitlements, than to work. This is such an important topic that we felt it necessary to warrant a second look. The graphic below quite clearly, and very painfully, confirms that there is an earnings vacuum of around $40k in which US workers are perfectly ambivalent toward inputting more effort since it does not result in any additional incremental disposable income. With the ongoing 'fiscal cliff' battles over taxes and entitlements, this is a problematic finding, since - as a result - it is the US government that will have to keep funding indirectly this lost productivity and worker output (via wealth redistribution).

 

As we noted before (details below):

We realize that this is a painful topic in a country in which the issue of welfare benefits, and cutting (or not) the spending side of the fiscal cliff, have become the two most sensitive social topics. Alas, none of that changes the matrix of incentives for most Americans who find themselves in a comparable situation: either being on the left side of minimum US wage, and relying on benefits, or move to the right side at far greater personal investment of work, and energy, and... have the same disposable income at the end of the day.

Naturally, the topic of wealth redistribution is paramount one now that America is entering the terminal phase of its out of control spending, and whose response to hike taxes in a globalized, easily fungible world, will merely force more of the uber-wealthy to find offshore tax jurisdictions, avoid US taxation altogether, and thus result in even lower budget revenues for the US. It explains why the cluelessly incompetent but supposedly impartial Congressional Budget Office just released a key paper titled "Share of Returns Filed by Low- and Moderate-Income Workers, by Marginal Tax Rate, Under 2012 Law" which carries a chart of disposable income by net income comparable to the one above.

But perhaps the scariest chart in the entire presentation is the following summarizing the unsustainable welfare burden on current taxpayers:

  • For every 1.65 employed persons in the private sector, 1 person receives welfare assistance
  • For every 1.25 employed persons in the private sector, 1 person receives welfare assistance or works for the government.

The punchline: 110 million privately employed workers; 88 million welfare recipients and government workers and rising rapidly.

And since nothing has changed in the past two years, and in fact the situation has gotten progressively (pardon the pun) worse, here is our conclusion on this topic from two years ago:

We have been writing for over a year, how the very top of America's social order steals from the middle class each and every day. Now we finally know that the very bottom of the entitlement food chain also makes out like a bandit compared to that idiot American who actually works and pays their taxes. One can only also hope that in addition to seeing their disposable income be eaten away by a kleptocratic entitlement state, that the disappearing middle class is also selling off its weaponry. Because if it isn't, and if it finally decides it has had enough, the outcome will not be surprising at all: it will be the same old that has occurred in virtually every revolution in the history of the world to date.

But for now, just stick head in sand, and pretend all is good. Self-deception is now the only thing left for the entire insolvent entitlement-addicted world.

* * *

Full must read presentation: "Welfare's Failure and the Solution"

 

Some other thoughts on this topic: DOES IT PAY, AT THE MARGIN, TO WORK AND SAVE?

 

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Sat, 12/01/2012 - 20:38 | 3027167 newengland
newengland's picture

The USA was founded as a Republic, NOT a democracy (mob rule). A Republic is a voluntary effort by neighbour and neighbor; all for one, one for all; live within the means of the community, and prosper honestly by building together, and trading with others.

What Big Brother statist government gives, it does intend to take away ruthlessly, with no concernn for the people, so long as the inner party of international financiers and their political pets and bureaucrats prosper.

I pity the welfare recipients, the canon fodder. I despise the corporate welfare recipients, the canon; the sociopaths.

Democracy works until people figure out that someone else will pay for them, and then the socialist, communist, fascist route follows.

The Republic is a voluntary effort among people who share values, regardless of race, color, religion or bank balance. This is good. It is a meritocracy; one earns a place in the community, and is happy to serve the community: the person stood next to you.

It is time to invoke the 10th Amendment, the sovereignty of states. The Federal government and its sleazy Federal Reserve Board have become oppressive, and hateful - coercing or cajoling others to bend to their profiteering will, their globalist agenda which seeks to make slaves of all for the benefit of the few.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:57 | 3027449 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

It is time to invoke the 10th Amendment ...

There is no 10th Amendment anymore.  It ended along with the rest of the Constitution when the federal govt conquered the states in the Civil War. 

People don't seem to understand the states were conquered in the Civil War.  The conquered have no sovereignty anymore.  They have no rights anymore.  They're totally subservient to the conquering force, the federal govt in this case.

The 14th, 15th, 16th, and 17th amendments prove it.  They effectively abolish the original Constitution and made the federal govt in DC a national govt over all 50 states.

Prohibition was the first real test of the new national authority of the federal govt.  It proved the federal govt was now a national govt.

That's when the Fed really went into action, having the US govt currency removed and replaced with FRNs.  With national authority and FRNs as the new national currency, the Fed's plan was complete.  Now they could start looting the entire nation merely by running their printing press.

But one more obstacle had to be eliminated, gold redeemability.  That obstacle was removed in '71.  Now the Fed could move their national looting spree into high gear, and really cranked up the presses, as we saw during Reagan's administration. 

Coming forward to 2008, it was time move the presses into hyperdrive for the last looting phase to begin, the final complete total looting of America that would finish off the nation for good.  A fake "financial collapse" was arranged to kick it off, and the final looting of America phase started with milti-trillion dollar cash gifts to bankers and trillion dollar cash gifts to the govt for playing along.

Now we're up to $250 billion a month printed by the Fed for banks and the govt.  It'll destroy what's left of the US dollar before much longer.

People must open their eyes and see the big picture, a 100 year banker plan to loot America dry. 

Next step:  Confiscating 401ks, IRA's, pension funds, the last concentration of wealth left to grab.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:37 | 3027605 newengland
newengland's picture

Agreed, 'crankyoldgeezer'.

Pitiful, ain't it? I am not buying this federal BS, and neither are you, it seems. I am sorry for other people's troubles, but it is their trouble made by their complacency or willing  involvement.

My beloved will blow their heads off if they bring their $hit up our private lane.

My dear mother used to say that if people cared for their neighbor,then the world would have no problems. My father made it so.

The Republic of the USA will be defended by honest people who love their neighbors, and abhor politics.

 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 20:46 | 3027178 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I haven’t lost the drive to earn.

 

Just figure out how the individuals lurking behind the curtain pulling levers to engineer new illusions of fear. Once every person understands, the drive to acquire will exponentially increase. Old ancient techniques to control the citizenry will vaporize underneath a weak 2013 Q1 power structure. Winks..

Statism Is Slavery

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 20:47 | 3027187 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You are a good person Atomizer/

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:01 | 3027202 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Thank you. However, I noted a spelling error in my post. How was suppose to be who. Cannot change. @*$#^%, second time tonight! LOL

Goodnight ZH members.

I’ll leave you with this. Black Sun ÁLBUM: AION, 1990

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:11 | 3027216 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Doesn't matter. It was the thought, and I got it! :-) I'm going for a run to the beach...

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:30 | 3027255 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Jan 18th , close house on number 5. After a 45 minute drive, drop by to visit my great Marco Island tenants. Then head down to the beach. Return back to new house & decide what I'll do with it. /sarc.

Buy some additional furniture and enjoy. Ship down my three vehicles from Ohio. Then relax

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:28 | 3027250 tip e. canoe
Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:41 | 3027272 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Back at both of ya good men!

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 20:47 | 3027186 Tombstone
Tombstone's picture

Bingo...socialism is now the rule of the land.  And The Dictator wants to spend even more on welfare using tax cuts and debt.  I could fairly easily replace most of my income with government handouts; that is because expenses keep rising and income is pankake flat.  There are fewer well paying jobs unless you want to skate with the gov.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 20:51 | 3027188 realtick
realtick's picture

The 4 Year Presidential Election Cycle Indicator

http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-4-year-pres...

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:07 | 3027203 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

As an American partially expatriated/ I never lost my will to build or create wealth!

  I lost my faith in a corrupt system of people that are so self centered, that they can't see they are on the verge of self destruction/

  How can a Man and Woman raise a family in this dysfunctional quagmire? 

   I'm the consumate optimist, but let's talk about reality! People are leaving the United States, and Illegal immigration is slowing/

  Go ahead and raise taxes. I'll just fully renounce my citizenship!

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:12 | 3027220 newengland
newengland's picture

Yen,

It is good enough that you still care about your homeland - care enough to share your thoughts and expertise.

Live to fight another day, yencross. Best wishes to you and yours, compatriot.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:22 | 3027233 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I'm not done yet. I have family members to take care of/   Out of curosity, where is the MSM with all the Sandy victims freezing their asses off! Those people are literally starving, and freezing. They are highly skilled/educated American Citizens/

 Where is CNBS on that travesty?

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:38 | 3027267 newengland
newengland's picture

Dear Yen Cross,

Your anger is just and good. I agree with you in more ways that I say here. Big Brother let New Yorkers suffer. Why? Because their votes are assured, and Big Brother only spends time and money on recruiting new voters: tax slaves, wage slaves.

The house slave and the field slave are no different, although some wear finer clothes.

The Republic: this is the foundation of the USA, stolen by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, assisted by bribed politicos and bureaucrats.

 

I hope you keep yourself safe. Live to fight another day. Come home when the smoke has cleared. This is good.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:02 | 3027292 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I'm not angry. I'm sad, that this country is so dilapidated.    I love my Country... The people that run it are questionable at best?

  newengland, I'm not going to preach to the teacher/ You are much smarter than I will ever be... You have decades of wisdom as guidance>

 I deeply appreciate your time and teachings. 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:13 | 3027332 newengland
newengland's picture

Dear Yen Cross,

You are the future. I am the past. The baton is passed to you and yours. Keep safe. 

No one can kill a good idea.

V.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:06 | 3027207 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Show me ONE person who asks their boss to cap raises.

Garbage. 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:45 | 3027278 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Steve Jobs asked his board to keep his salary at a buck a yr.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:09 | 3027328 newengland
newengland's picture

Steve Jobs employed slaves in the east to make his products. Some of them jumped off buildings in suicidal protest. Steve Jobs and Apple represent greed, not community, not the West, not the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence.

Two faced thief Microsoft is even worse.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 07:17 | 3027718 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Steve Jobs didn't ask his board to keep his compensation at only a dollar per year, in fact there was all that melodrama when the when iFraud/iCorruption about option pricing accounting was exposed a while back...

Why don't you try playing that game with TBTF bank executives instead instead of the grand poobah of the iRetards, since so many of those poor compassionate iBanker executives are only earning relatively small six-figure salaries.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:25 | 3027244 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Regarding why the jobs left America and may now be coming back: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-insourcing-boom/...

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:05 | 3027322 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

interesting article, though considering the source of the story and the particular company profiled, it might be worthy to consider if & why this particular meme is being planted.    a few thousand workers could be nothing but the cost of doing bizness with the DC/Chi Boyz & Girlz with a nice little PR cherry on top.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 09:07 | 3027780 Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson's picture

That isn't the impression I got from the article. Sounds like GE discovered that, all things considered, it is more profitable to manufacture those items in the US. Nothing more sinister than that. Good on 'em, I say. Here's hoping we see more of this from other companies as well.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 09:35 | 3027803 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

at face value, i shared your impression.   but it would be foolish to ignore that the Atlantic is a mouthpiece of the Administration and that the CEO of GE is the prez's Job Czar, and the words on the screen should be read in their proper context. 

but yes, if you choose to believe that the answer to America's problems is to get its citizens back to work for giant corporations (who derive most of their income from the Military Industrial Complex) so that those citizens can pay back the National Debt (and its associated Interest) which by its very nature is fraudulent at the core, then theres Hopetm.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 12:45 | 3028113 Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson's picture

Well putting aside all that esoteric shit about the Military/Industrial complex, I just think it's good for Americans to get back to work producing something useful. Dishwashers and refrigerators are certainly useful. People need to work. Helps keep them out of trouble and gives them a sense of worth. Again, it's nothing more sinister than that. 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 16:11 | 3028328 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

french door 'fridges that will retail over $3000 each. . .

I'm with tip e. on this one, that article had some lines that caused  0.o  over here too - gee-eee has history, and it's very militarised history, so I'm not buying this, oops we all made a mistake by outsourcing!

bringing factories back to amrka. . . we'll see what/if they actually produce.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 17:35 | 3028441 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

esoteric (adj.) - understood by or meant for only the select few who have  special knowledge or interest;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/esoteric?s=t

 

Defense Contract Values Per Company (since 10/30/2006)

GE

Total Value of Listed Contracts: $19,852,419,498

http://www.militaryindustrialcomplex.com/totals.asp?thisContractor=Gener...

took me about 2 minutes to dig this up using a simple search engine.   didn't even have to pull out my supersecret masonic decoder ring to find.

sinister (adj.) - bad, evil, base, or wicked

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sinister?s=t&ld=1124

perhaps you could educate me as to where I was inferring anything sinister?   maybe more like: 

disingenuous (adj.) : lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuousinsincere: 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disingenuous?s=t&ld=1124

ex. : your argument would be much less disingenuous if it did not contain esoteric ad-hominems such as the repeated use of the word sinister.

 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:00 | 3027469 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Haven't you heard?  Shale gas is the new chicken soup for the USA!

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 21:54 | 3027289 spooz
spooz's picture

So the obvious answer is to incentivize working for the poor by expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit. This way the working poor can earn a living wage.

 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:06 | 3027324 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

Well, people are getting the money somewhere to at least put gas in their cars to drive to the malls. Was in Baton Rouge mall all day, and could not believe how packed the parking lots were, and how full of shoppers the stores are. Did not count the number of packages though.  The food court was packed.

Do people drive to the mall so that they can talk on their cell phones?

Or do people have free time because they don't work and just hang around the mall.

 

What gives?

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:11 | 3027331 pasmurf
pasmurf's picture

why should anyone go try to sell anything with $3 + gas, I would rather sit tight and not risk the money.  Almost ten years ago people would run around trying to sell their wares at warehouses and door to door or what have you.  I can make the same $ goal by sitting on my butt and waiting for the tax rebates.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:30 | 3027358 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Deus ex Machina -

There are millions of US manufacturing Jobs lost that will NEVER come back.

We live in the digital computerized Age and what that means is:

Robots can do ALL the work in most or All manufacturing and even service Jobs.

The production output since 1990 has doubled, while Robots in a Plant like VW in the midwest are doing the Jobs of 10 workers. That's were all your Jobs went: to digital technology and Innovation and efficiency.

There are Farmers working on megamillion hectar Farms out in the Mid-west where there used to be Nothing but a Dust-Bowl.

With a minimum of effort or Labour, they can Irrigate millions of hectars of Land by the single push of a button, to get maximum Food-production out of Land, that used to be desert. Just via digital technology and maximum efficiency.

You don't need hundreds of workers anymore to produce goods in the manufacturing sector.

All you need is a minimum of workers to supervise the Robots and get maximum productive out-put.

Look at every Industry, every sector.

The Robots have taken over and the sooner people realize this as fact,

the easier it will be for them to adjust to the fact that most of those welding, harvesting, manufacturing Jobs

will never come back, because they were unefficient, Labour-Intensive, time-consuming and hardly productive.

These are the facts people have to got to terms with,

and this is the same Story the World over.

those Jobs lost will never come back.

thats just fact, that was true during the 1900 Industrial Revolution,

as it is also true during our digital and information technoligy age,

that we have entered around the turn of the 21 st century

or around the year 2000.

That's when the Robots started to take over and most of us are now

mostly working in the service industry or in the still Labour- Intensive

defence Industry, also the drones and Robots have taken over there too.

Digital Age technology and Robots have taking ALL your Jobs,

while Production now is at least twice as high than in 1990 in most Industries.

No use blaming the un-employed or technoligy.

No use blaming anyone !

This is what progress, Innovation and efficiant digital technoligy really looks like.

Do much more with much less People

let the Robots do the work.

let all the people enjoy Life and prosper on this Planet

let Androids and Deus ex Machina do the dull and heavy work.

Deus ex Machina

wr;)

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:47 | 3027378 newengland
newengland's picture

Fuck off.

Life is about quality, not quantity. No wonder the old world hates the USA Constitution and Declaration of Independence which puts man before money; man before machine; man before hateful international banksters, bureaucrats and bribed politicos.

'No man is an island.' (John Donne).

Death becomes you and your sort.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:07 | 3027414 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Your Constitution was written by a bunch of dead guys. It was a CONTRACT with the people of that time. Why do you think modern USA governments and the SCOTUS so readily ignore and violate it? It has no meaning in present day. You were born long after. Are you beholden to this CONTRACT 200+ years later just because somebody told you that's the way it is?

Freedom starts in your own head, not on a 200+ year old piece of hemp paper designed to corral the sheep inside you.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:22 | 3027490 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Read it and you might understand.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:16 | 3027541 newengland
newengland's picture

Oldwood,

The name Angus followed by a smart arse name tells us that s/he is a hateful europhile, and new world order shill.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 06:02 | 3027697 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

leave Europe out of it.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:27 | 3027536 newengland
newengland's picture

Angus,

The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are among the world's finest ideals.

I pity you money grubbing cynics, sophists and useless bureaucrats.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 21:36 | 3037852 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are among the world's finest ideals.

That, and a dollar will get you a nice bed in the VIP section of your FEMA camps. Funny how you called them "ideals"... not LAW. You're better off with "ideals" anyway since the USA gov't keeps fucking around with the LAW and changing it on their whim to fuck with you anytime they please.

I'm hardly a bureaucrap. I actually produce goods people need. Are you another one of those paper traders that think they work for a living?

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:12 | 3027533 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

I thought that Life was All about Quality AND Quantity -

Of course you have a right to be angry -

After all, you lost millions of those manufacturing Jobs,

that can now be done by Robots, faster and better both in Quality and Quantity.

there's no denying it - but look at the bright side -

that will leave people with more time to enjoy the finer things in life...and think about life a bit...

or did you want your old job back in that old Coal-mine and chopp down the last Red-woods to make more cheap nazi-camp Ikea furniture behind the old Iron Curtain or in that so-called global economy of yours where american companies exploit child-labour on slave wages in the clothing manufacturing sector in some Asian sweat-shop or like Apple does it in China at Foxcon ?

you Fuck off !

Do you think you are the only ones that ever lost their Jobs ?

In that case better get ready for a cruel and hard wake-up call.

wr;)

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:22 | 3027546 newengland
newengland's picture

Die Nazi.

You want money, and care nothing for man nor beast.

Death becomes you and yours.

Fuck off. You will die at the behest of your slaves.

My Republic will endure. We love each other in our community. You inbred AshkeNAZI freaks are mentally ill.

I can afford to pay living wages to my staff, and pay a tithe to my church, for our community. People like you are hateful freaks.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:48 | 3027571 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

new England -

calm down before you blow a gasket -

besides you are quite wrong:

I do care a lot about slaves and beasts -

my heart bleeds for them, especially the Republican ones

wr;

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:18 | 3027588 newengland
newengland's picture

Die Nazi,

Liar.

You bleed red ink on a corporate welfare bailed out by taxes balance sheet.

Your flying pig will be shot down by your sort, AshkeNAZI.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:45 | 3027384 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

This reads like a persuasive essay from the 3rd grade. GTFOH with this bull shit. I make under 40k a year and I have no less drive to make more money. On the contrary, I have more of a drive to liberate myself from money and its debt inclinations. But how many of you stink tards around here understand that? Regardless, it seems that an asshole can stink up his own shit hole, therefore; I choose to observe his mess than to partake in it.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:52 | 3027390 newengland
newengland's picture

SNAP? Owned by JP Morgue? Next time, write in plain English, then you might be understood, debt slave. Your problem is that you accept the Big Brother world, and are upset that it used you.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:20 | 3027435 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

Simplicity is not found in education nor is it found in your pension fund NEWengland. Spare me some change old man because I have some for you. And I am not referring to money. Im specifically writing about liberation. I climbed out the debt pits of this shit hole by denouncing my ego. In other words I passed up on the American dream when all around me thirsted for it and now have a ball and chain next to them for life. Give more of your perspective than to dwelve in a generation you are befuddled by.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:58 | 3027468 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I have a wierd feeling that you two have a lot more in common than you think you do.  And I mean that in a good way.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:46 | 3027511 newengland
newengland's picture

I'll keep my community, my neighbors, our land, our money, our guns and our freedom.

You can keep the change, debt slave. That is my perspective, boy.

Next question...

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:55 | 3027524 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

I greened you simply because you admit to being a shit hole filling asshole.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:06 | 3027532 newengland
newengland's picture

Your ad hominem amuses you, and adds nothing to anyone, child.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:55 | 3027394 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I'm liking you! If you can convinse the rest of your Entitled brethren to think like you, we will have 4% GDP, and a fully funded retirement scheme/

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:08 | 3027417 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

entitled brethren?

Is that the 1% ?  No bigger welfare than paying a lower tax rate on dividend (*cough sit on your ass*) income than a person that ACTUALLY WORKS for a living.

I love the arrogance of the right, their idolization of people that make money because they have money. Or sleazeball shysters like Goldman Sachs.

Yeah, some person working 60 hours at Taco Bell is entitled, but some rich guy living on inheritence getting dividends tax free is a fucking HERO to capitalism.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:30 | 3027444 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Are you kidding me? Yes! entitled brethren... You seem to have some grasp on reality.  Just where exactly did we lose the connection from education and indoctrination/ IDIOT!

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 22:59 | 3027402 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

Ugh god, this shit again??

If you look at the chart you'll notice the bulk of welfare is for CHILD CARE. So all the Ayn Rand fucks on ZH are in favor of denying child care for people that can't afford it?

And I've been on food stamps...why? Because I qualified for it. Am I a leech? I don't know, is fucking MITT ROMNEY a leech for taking advantage of tax shelters and paying a lower tax rate than I did when making $15K/year?

And guess what, I typically spend $100-150/month on food. Food stamps were over $200. I didn't get $200 cash. I couldn't pay my rent with food stamps. So saying that people will work less when given excess welfare (NOT CASH) is stupid.

The whole premise is a FUCKING JOKE.

Let the rich leave, fuck them. We shouldn't even debate this, we should be showing up at their FUCKING houses with a pitchfork, not asking "please pay your fair taxes" we should hang them in the nearest tree.

I love this concept that "oh don't tax the rich, don't piss off the rich....they will leave". Well who the fuck cares when the only jobs around pay a slave wage because the wealthy are siphoning off all the wealth.

Take your stupid graph and shove up it your ass.

It's time to go after global wealthy and extract POUNDS AND POUNDS OF FLESH.

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:18 | 3027431 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

No you aren't a leech, you're a flea. You are a much smaller parasite which denies that its feeding on other life forms is a problem due to the existence of larger, fatter bloodsuckers like the leech. Your logic is that only taking a drop of someones blood shouldnt be a problem for a host because the leech takes an ounce.

I agree, I would like to see some of them hanging from a tree- and from a double noosed rope with a smaller parasite dangling on the opposite end.

Fuck them? Yep, and you too.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:28 | 3027495 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

You don't know me.

If food stamps is taking blood then where are the gallons of blood I've donated.

The difference between them and me, is that I never asked for food stamps. I took them because it was there.

I didn't lobby congess for food stamps. I didn't elect a candidate for the promise of food stamps.  Unlike the wealthy that elect people that promise to slash their taxes, I just took what was there....when the corporation sent my job to Asia.

I'm just asking for a liveable wage job. They're asking for another YACHT. Another BMW. Another summer home.

 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:53 | 3027521 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I'm trying really hard, y2k boy!

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:54 | 3027522 newengland
newengland's picture

Get off your knees, brother. DC hates you and the Republic. Stop buying the red pill or the blue pill. Both are poison. 

Stay close to home, neighbors, community. Invoke the 10th Amendment, the sovereignty of states.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:22 | 3027597 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

it is quite easy to stay close to home, neighbors, community -

when you are the solidary Inmate of the local State Penitentiary.

Getting off your knees on welfare while invoking the 10th Amendment might be a bit harder though...

it took them 'til 1791 to write that Amendment, and now it will take another 200 years to free all the slaves,

wild republican wilder-beasts and other Inmates.

Hail New England.

wr;)

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 10:29 | 3027874 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

So you are saying you didn't vote for Obama?

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:11 | 3027407 dolph9
dolph9's picture

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'll say it as long as this site exists to say it on.

If you are working in America, you are the planet's biggest sucker.  You are THE SUCKER.  You've been led, all of your lives, to believe that you're "all that" and that you live in the greatest country on Earth.

You were lied to, like perhaps no other people have been lied to in the history of the world.

You work around the clock so that the 7 billion hungry mouths across the world can be fed...does anybody else do that?

You work so that oil sheikhs and corporate bosses in China and old money families in Europe can run away with billions of dollars...does anybody else do that?

You work so that Mexicans and Asians and people from all over the world can come to your country and enjoy the fruits of your labor...does anybody else do that?

 

If there is a greater sucker than the American worker, I surely do not know of them.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:31 | 3027445 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

The crowd is perplexed by such wise words.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:42 | 3027454 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Lots of Americans fought and died and nuked cities to have the hard won right to middle class livelihoods.  Whining about globalization and bankers and layabouts is not all that relevant.  The elites win most matches in history; perhaps the Greatest Generation under FDR's leadership in fact achieved something so rare and remarkable that it will be inundated by the elites/underclasses and sink back under the waves, like Atlantis, with only reruns of All in the Family and The Waltons to show for it.

But why be a whiny pissant about it?

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:00 | 3027526 newengland
newengland's picture

Relevant is the demise of the middle class, fucked by banksters and politicians and bureaucrats and lobbyists.

Some people think that is irrelevant. I disagree, and I am among the few who can defend and pay for my neighbor, so perhaps it is no surprise that I dislike sophistry.

'No man is an island.' (John Donne)

The Republic requires genuine community, not the freak inbred avaricious or slave mentality of corporatists and their weak fans.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:28 | 3027551 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Lots of Americans fought and died and nuked cities to have the hard won right to middle class livelihoods.

What?  Right to middle class livelihoods?

Good god what a moron. 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 14:06 | 3028191 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Middle class livelihood = OPTIONS

As in, able to save for kids' education AND retirement AND housing, vacation and such.

It's not all about 'oh I started a business so I am God' BS.  Which is far too easy (lazy) in terms of thinking.  No one gives you the Get Out of Thinking Free card just for being lucky or even working hard.  We are a society of organizations, large organizations, based on labor specialization and wage markets.  Ask Adam Smith and David Ricardo if you can't figure that out.

Adn yes, God is good, Mr. Genius Pantyface.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:39 | 3027607 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

This is a choice, not a necessity.  What Americans have been presented with is "consumerism" and "entertainment" while the curtain hides what is actually taking place in the background. 

 

http://www.israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?t=22904 - Agenda 21 links at this site (Yes, Israeli military thread) - See Agenda 21 For Dummies.

Middle class is unsustainable seems to sum it up.  Without jobs, consumption will definitely cease. 

Crazy, I know.  Scaling back and moving forward as the weather permits - so no one raises hell and voters become alarmed.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 03:16 | 3027610 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

You work around the clock so that the 7 billion hungry mouths across the world can be fed...does anybody else do that?

No - you manage that sort of thing all on your own -

that's the beauty of free food-stamps at the local flea-circus !

wr;)

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 04:31 | 3027654 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

The drummers pound for glory of a once known tale that pronounced all chivalry to the descendants of swine. Expressed by a wonderful sonnet are memories of when men grew from pigs that led truth to lies.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:04 | 3027409 El Yunque
El Yunque's picture

What an absolute barrel of bullshit.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:10 | 3027420 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Got a better idea for keeping the riots out of the Hamptons? And, since nobody is going to pay the debt back never nohow anyway and the banksters are going to be the ones biting the bullet WHO CARES? They are crooks. Arrest them.

I think they've put laws into place where it is not possible to arrest them now but anyhow they know what they are doing and so do the students that they pump out of Harvard. They know that the US has been taken over. It is not like that hard to F'n figure out you know. It is planned Keynesian destruction and takeover by Harvard and Harvard's students.

Burn the Books Bonfire of the Vanities 

Buy some F'n gold why don't you. Help Help somebody stop them.

Ok that was close. Better now. Oh that was a great article. Enjoyed it very much.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:24 | 3027437 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

That is why smart hot single moms become strippers.

 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:28 | 3027441 Madhouse
Madhouse's picture

Of course, the dynamics of this equation are not inclusive of the fact that the person is not working and has plenty of time to fuck around and likely works for an extra $4-$5 k per year in cash businesses.  Fuck it, sign me up.  I am going to go to Mexico, and then come back as a fuckin welfare fuck.  I'll be better off. Fuck you, ya fuckin (middle class) fools. Its real arb.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:36 | 3027448 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

This post is a mathematical FAIL.  Sorry.  In proposing 'solutions' the scope is all wrong.  The main failing is to assume the current tax posture as a given.  If one were to reduce taxes on the single mom, her take home pay would improve relative to the $29,000 + benefits situation.

So, if the American Enterprise Institute didn't tell the PA official to cut defense (and other, but sacred cows go first) spending and/or increase the progressivity of the tax code, thus reducing the 'gap', then there is a lot of mathematical fail going on.

The scope here is the typical setup for the most popular progressive joke these days:

A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."

Just substitute 'welfare mom' for 'union guy'. 

This kind of post is easy pickings and only solidifies the liberal side of the debate...by cowardly avoidance of the real issues on the conservative side.  Ante up or buzz off.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:36 | 3027506 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Exactly who's cookies were they? Liberals always see them as everyones cookies. Socialism, you got to love it or at least until you run out of other people's cookies!

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 14:08 | 3028195 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Fairness is at the core of any civic discussion.  So it's a fair question.  With lots of points of view.  Personally I am one of those old fashioned balance types.  Boring I know, and I fear that is part of our downfall.  The best answers are often.....OMG.....BORING!

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:38 | 3027452 Madhouse
Madhouse's picture

Not that the Repubs are any better. In fact they are the worst money grubbing whores in Washington. But Obama could give 2 fucks about the middle class. He stepped over that class if you hadn't noticed. He is forever rich at this point. Could give a fuck about Rome analogies - wasting away middle class, far flung phycotic exercises to prove our manlihood overseas, welfare system keeping the dumb and pathetic drugged and happy, unsustainable debt, out of control corruption where everyone sees business as usual..  fuck you

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:47 | 3027458 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

A pretty smart guy called 'Truth in Sunshine" expalained that concept with absolute clarity earlier...

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 09:45 | 3027809 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The debt serfs are just an evolution of the field and house niggers-

Obama likes to talk of "humble" nature of his African roots, but his father was a Harvard alum when only the most elite of Africans could have the opportunity to travel to the US for any education, much less a Harvard education.  

The Luo tribe has a long history in the East African Slave trade- they acquired slaves locally and the transshipped them from the Ten Mile zone at the Tana River delta to Zanzibar well into the twentieth century, both under the Imperial British East Africa Company and the East Africa Protectorate. The trade of slaves, much less ownership of slaves, was not even NOMINALLY outlawed until the 1890 decree, and British colonial offices were still granting official certificates of manumission when Obama's father was resident against his will at their offices in the mid 20th century. Slavery continues to this day in Africa and elsewhere, there is open debate between the Ulama in East Africa about whether the State even has the authority to grant manumission.  The current hubbub about a new constitution in Egypt is part of a larger debate about Sharia, which unfortunately is taking place in 2012, not 1812.

Incidentally, Barry's rich plantation owning grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama, converted to Islam while in Zanzibar, which raises the question of just who exactly was tilling the Obama family lands and how were they compensated...

Norman Leys, David Livingstone, and the BFASS are a good starting point for the historical background before moving to the more contemporary debate
http://www2.css.edu/app/depts/his/historyjournal/index.cfm?cat=5&art=48
http://www.amazon.com/Abolition-Slavery-William-Gervase-Clarence-Smith/d...

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:45 | 3027455 dolph9
dolph9's picture

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/gas-station-clerk-shoots-assailant-who-p...

 

Do you need any more proof on how responsible people are treated in this country?  The young black kid who tried the enter the store after hours and punched the poor guy working there is a "saint."  The working stiff tried to defend his honor, the store, and his life...and what is his reward?  To lose his job and be a "community" pariah.

 

I don't know about you guys, but FUCK THIS SHIT.  It won't change...not now, not ever.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:37 | 3027507 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Yeah. I've watched people like Mark Carney become close to God cause he mimicks Ben according to the media. Like that is tough job. Oh what will I do this month/year? Hold rates close to zero. Whoa. Tough day at work. Meanhile that decision cost people uncountless problems. It allows wars. It allows banking interests to gamble for free. Yet the poor person who is just a number is the real thief. Sorry don't buy it. To me welfare bums are just savy shoppers of entitlements. Don't like them but they are people. The ones running the show are extreme examples of evil. They are the bosses. They use their 300 year plus knowledge of the system their families created to pit human against human to better their hold on us all. They love it when we fight about the system. That means we aren't bothering them.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:36 | 3027557 newengland
newengland's picture

dolph,

Defend the person stood next to you who shares your values. That is the Republic. All else is BS. Let the political fan boys flame each other.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:03 | 3027472 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Don't poke around on the site without reviewing our Cookie Policy.

 


Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:09 | 3027473 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Currency wars, class wars, real wars. War has to be the default state of human existance. All point to the fact we use a flawed means of exchange. City states would be my solution. Don't like socialism? Or paper dollars? War? Move to Paulville. Like central planning, unions, war, taxes? Move to DC or Manhatten.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:10 | 3027476 blindman
blindman's picture

how do you earn more and grow when you are
in an over developed environment encompassed
by a debt based paradigm> export the growth
to whom, people that are disconnected from
the debt based financial paradigm? where are
they, we need them, are they in Afghanistan?
mars? you reach a point where earning more
debt notes just takes from hungry mouths. maybe,
if so, this might be a problem.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:15 | 3027478 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Simplifiedfrisbee.... break out of your mold. The truth, they have swelling ass inflammation each day. You don't need them, rather they need you! Get your horse in front of the cart....

Debt Slave

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:43 | 3027512 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

The costs involved with maintaining a horse negate breaking out the mold and leading a chariot of shopping carts.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:23 | 3027491 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

The real reason people lose the will to work is that it is a zero sum game. Make lots - taxes and inflation. Make little - inflation. The only ones getting by are those who run the system. They have us exactly where they want us. The whole system is a setup. There are better ways to have a society. Just those who run ours first goal is for it never to change.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:32 | 3027500 newengland
newengland's picture

Lenin said to crush the bourgeoisie (the working people) by taxation and inflation. Lenin was funded by international rootless cosmopolitans of the psychopathic AshkeNAZI tribe: the Rothschilds and Oppenheimers, for example, who captured rich jerks like the Rockefellers and founded the Trilateral Commission of inbred freaks who want a technocratic world ruled by robots and academics (the 'educated fools' and 'useful idiots', said the Soviets, funded by the freak AshkeNAZI NWO who own central banks).

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:50 | 3027519 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Exactly. It is like the worst kept secret yet idiot masses seem to not care to find it out. Suppose they are all busy on Facebook and watching reality TV. I see it in my own kids. It is almost inescapable. Its rather unnearving on how well it is planned. They have us over a barrel. It was a chess game and we thought it was checkers. I get why those in control don't have much sympathy. People are cows. They have no interest in knowing things beyond their control. It's humanities downfall.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:42 | 3027566 newengland
newengland's picture

dognamedabu,

Ho hum. Such is life, I guess. A show.

Best wishes to you and yours. Let's defend our neighbors, our community, our Republic, and let the blowhard fuckwits in politics and their fans and big banks  burn each other...the sooner, the better.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 03:55 | 3027638 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Fuck that. Each man for themself is the new world. Sadly. It isn't like we want it that way. It is just its setup that way. We are all game players. Sure you'll get the odd guy going but it we just change. Fuck that. It won't change. It's headed in one direction. Protect yourself. If you all can on sick wages or humiliating entitlements.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 04:02 | 3027640 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Im being very sour. There are suberb people out there. Charities that help. Community is key. Salvation army comes to mind. Just fuck. Once one sees the system operating, it seems futile to fight it. A couple thousand inbreds can always better organise than 7 billion others.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:32 | 3027498 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I guess this explains why no one is looking for a job.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 00:39 | 3027509 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Reading all that shit I finally understand why those American Fucks are hated all over the world.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 04:28 | 3027651 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Really? Hate them huh? Im like sitting in Canada wondering why some areospace engineer is making $40k in the land of the free. I could make that in 4 months being general labour at some camp in north Alberta. What did he do wrong? Tried I suppose. Where do you live that is immune to the evils we all face?

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 04:47 | 3027656 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

It's like I tell "friends." We travel the world and do not know our neighbors. Yet bring it one step closer within the same perspective. Try this: "Look within and you shall never be without." The only place to escape the evils? You refer to a purely physical entity you must escape from. Taxes, oppression, etc... No. It is to look for the spirit of God within oneself that the truth begins to unravel within your mind. Better start now because the Ego has your ass round the table at the crapper.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:53 | 3027514 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Buy gold

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 20:41 | 3028625 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

Buy Gold Bitchez...there FIFY :)

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:13 | 3027537 honestann
honestann's picture

You forgot to mention one important fact.

You don't risk getting into trouble just sitting on your butt collecting government handouts.

However, if you dare to actually produce anything, especially anything physically real, legions of government thugs are just waiting to pounce on your butt, fine you, thwart your efforts, and otherwise make your life a living hell.

Which is why the wise solution for all producers at this very sick time in human history is to stop producing, at least in the commercial realm.  Sure, grow veggies in your garden, exchange goods and services with your neighbors, study, learn, sharpen your skills, and otherwise be good... but refuse to feed the beast.

#1: Man can exist quite nicely without predators.
#2: Man can exist quite nicely without parasites.
#3: Man cannot exist without producers.

That's what producers need to understand.  Yes, perhaps 0.1% of the world population could survive (but not prosper or enjoy) on the goods that naturally occur in the environment.  But unless you want to have a 99.9% chance of death, and 100% certainty of brutal living conditions, man needs producers.

This is the only leverage remaining.  The producers have given the predators sufficient tools and weapons to enslave and destroy everyone on earth.  At this point, it is almost certainly too late to "beat them".  However, the predators can be starved.  So starve them.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:18 | 3027544 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You are a pretty kool girl.  I'm impressed

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 08:53 | 3027764 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Damn Tyler - the recent new pop-up ad at the bottom of the screen sure is irritating. Do you really need the ad money that bad?

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 08:52 | 3027765 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Dang - trying to get rid of that damn pop-up at the bottom of my screen, and my comment got triple-posted

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 08:50 | 3027766 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Going Galt might be the only solution.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 09:48 | 3027813 Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson's picture

My guess is that ZH is a "for profit" entity. Whether it actually makes a profit, I don't know. I'd rather support ZH through its sponsors (which I do) instead of "donate" money directly. That's the American way.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:38 | 3027560 msjimmied
msjimmied's picture

"The US does not have a spending problem so much as it has a 'corrupt financial system problem,' a 'wealth inequality problem with a stagnant wage base,' an 'unsustainable healthcare model problem,' and 'a free trade without adequate domest

ic policy based boundaries problem.' Forcing small business and workers to compete with state directed slave labor while maintaining a social system founded on private business and median worker wages is insane. The capitalists are not yet selling them the rope, but they are certainly selling them the 97%, and with them the bulk of their customer demand over time." Our people are not lazy. No one likes being poor. It's the system we have to fix. Stop feeding the trolls Tyler, go back to doing what you're excellent at. It hurts me to come here and have to wade through the crap.
Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:30 | 3027997 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

+1000

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 16:35 | 3028357 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

+1    msjimmied.

the slant is becoming a bit too obvious lately, and the responses predictable.  still some smarts below the line, but wading through the muddied waters sometimes feels un-productive, as another bone gets tossed into the pit. . .

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:41 | 3027564 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

How can we help Fonz? let me know! I'm over seas right now/ I'll call some developer friends of mine. They are really good at getting things done! They will screw New York city sideways!

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 01:48 | 3027572 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Have fun girls and boys, I'm out/ 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:13 | 3027586 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 This thread keeps getting better!  real people talking about real things/

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:13 | 3027587 caerus
caerus's picture

patience my friends...it will all collapse soon

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:22 | 3027591 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I hope so<  That beautiful Asian lady with zillions of brain cells is on to something?/

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:19 | 3027594 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Fucking right.

Even worse, I'll tell you from personal experience that right in the middle of the two income levels listed (whch, not coincidentally, is the US median income) is the most god-awful inflection point imaginable.  

No, myself and my family are not as poorly off as pig farmers in Romania, or in the same situation as starving tribesmen in Africa- ours is a Kafka-esque horror.

Background, for those of you who don't know.  I am an aerospace engineer in a rural area.  I gross right around $40K a year, with a wife whose job it is to be a stay at home mother, and three children.

My mortgage is less than 33% of my net income, and my home cost two years pay.  Basically, exactly what you might expect if an engineer took an actuary's advice and planned shit out that way (which, if you aren't a derp, is precisely what happened.)

I've got less right to bitch than some, but my bitching is more accurate than many others' might be- because I've seen both sides of the fence.  Those three kids of mine are step children- they're the only kids I have, and I mention it because of tax reasons, not emotional ones.  They and their mother had been living with me for almost four years before we got married.  

So let me lay this out for you in simple mathematical terms- withhold any judgement on my own sentimentality, or whatever other grounds you may have.  These are just straight boots-on-the-ground numbers, and the moral connotations are a separate issue entirely.

When I earned $43k/year (I earn less today, because I was promoted and then prohibited from working overtime) and my (now) wife earned $16k a year at the local grocery store, I got an $800 tax return, while she jackpotted between $10k and $12k.  She also recieved free daycare, free heath insurance, and $800 a month in food stamps.  She would have gotten rent assistance as well, were it not for the fact that every six months for over three years, I submitted my income statements along with a written declaration that I did not and would not seek or accept any assistance from either the State of Wisconsin, or the Federal government, and as such, I was waiving any and all rights to restitution for room and board for my (then)  girlfriend and her children.

I'll admit- I left it at that, because I have been a net taxpayer since I was 15 years old- she still collected the food stamps and daycare, and I conveniently omitted that from the budget.  In those three years, I bought and hid over $12k in physical silver coinage.

This summer, we got married- and evidently, that is the signal for los federales to unleash their hell-hounds.  I don't know what my tax return will end up being yet, but what I can say with certainty is that the food stamps dropped from $800/mo to less than $100, and the "free" daycare went away- with 3 kids, that meant that my new bride had to quit her job, leaving us with $40k a year.  There is no second paycheck of any size at all, and no help from anyone- because I had the positively satanic and vile temerity to actually marry the woman with whom I am co-habiting and raising a family.

Well, that's a little kick in the nuts- but as an avowed Libertarian, I will accept that I should have no assistance from the government.  But there's a small problem there- ok, not so small- there's a "blow up a federal building and bathe in the blood of the local politicos" problem there.

This year for Thanksgiving, I had only a handful of guests- my neighbor, who is the quartermaster for the local militia we have been forming, my mother-in-law, and her boyfriend.  My mother-in-law's boyfriend is a man who weighs at least 450 pounds, and was unemployed for well over two years- he is working again now, but it hasn't been a long haul for the guy, and he now earns $26k a year.  He adopted two grandkids- one Asian, and one Black, and this dude drove up to my house in a brand fucking new $45,000 truck.

Nah.  Fuck it.  I was telling a story, and thought it might help me get it off my chest and give some insight/perspective to those who are running things.  But it won't- it never does.  This shit just makes it worse for me, and I suspect the assholes that run things just jerk off to it.

How 'bout this, bitchez?  Your whole fucking city of straw is coming down, and sooner than you think.  When the man who designs your fucking missiles spends more time thinking about crime and sucide for the insurance money than he does worrying about implementing your brown-person BBQs, you have a problem.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 03:03 | 3027621 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

LOL!

Classic, thanks for that.

People can be sheeple, but they aren't fools.

After the past five years most see that the deck is stacked and you either are a high earning milker or you make cash on the sides, don't get "married", and milk the system.

Hard to blame those who milk the system on the low end after watching all the crooks in Wall Street and Washington milk it on the high end and pass the bill to our kids and grandkids.

Tear the motherfucker down is how I feel about it.

Conservative versus Liberal and Right versus Left have lost all meaning as both sides support the high and low end gravy train and to Hell with the rule of law, living wages, and individual responsibility.

The model has been abandoned, the moral and social contract abrogated, and it is clear to most that they have absolutely no control over the legerdemain and skullduggery; it is time to SURVIVE.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 05:12 | 3027664 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Prometheus,

Thank you for your story and thank you for doing the right thing by giving your name to your wife and children. Soon hopefully it will collapse from all the other parasites.

When the day comes that all across the nation no EBT card will work or be accepted. The urban takers will turn on one another. Some will make it to the camps; but many more won't survive. By relying on others they have chosen their path to live out their days like caged animals.

People with skills and morals like you and ebworthen will be the bricks and mortar of the new countries that will be formed from this once great nation.

I look forward to the collapse and despise the "good intentioned" politicians who steal from hard working people enabling the worthless to thrive without their own effort.

"You breed em- you feed em" would be a more humane system than this hell that those bastards have created.

Yes, tear this "Great Society" motherfucker down!

 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:43 | 3028016 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

"In the world I see – you're stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway."

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:34 | 3028002 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

I don't really abhor those who suck off the government milk teat, but the instant one of them tries to touch my hard earned shit, they will lose a hand or an eye.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 10:45 | 3027904 Eugend66
Eugend66's picture

Pig raisers smell the same all over the world. And being poor smells the same.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 10:45 | 3027908 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Please define what you mean by engineer......

 

In your case I assume its the fellow who sweeps the machined tailings off the floor.  So lets clear that misconception first.

 

The second question is why would you ever get married?, if you cant do the math, well sorry for that, see point one.  Your wife could have legally changed her name, you could have had a church ceremony, and still been ""married"", living off the gov (read me) with the free bennies.

 

Poor is supposed to suck, thats the point.  I started out Poor, I am now by my definition lower middle class.  By Obamas definition rich.

 

I guess my difference is that I started out poor but proud.  Never in the last 35 years worked less than 60 hours in a week, and a whole lot of weeks have been 80 to a 100...

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:31 | 3027999 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

"Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on: we cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances, we guard you while you sleep. Do not fuck with us."

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 12:02 | 3028054 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

I think your story is more typical of what is happening to US workers than many people realize.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 12:24 | 3028086 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

i suggest you get a divorce, claim for mental health and seek welfare for a "reconciliation" process on more benefits that could be strung out for many years.

i stopped working, pay no taxes, am waiting for the day my remaining capital is confiscated and i am evicted by do-gooding federalistas from my "bought and paid" for property (because i dont use two of the three bedrooms). the thought of working (6 figure salary) for a corrupt company and paying taxes to a corrupt government in a corrupt society is beyond my tolerance limit.

i just hope the bureacratic bourgoise federalistas give me three months notice so i can grab a ship to a third world country with my gold coins.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 03:03 | 3029022 honestann
honestann's picture

You are doing the smart thing, and the right thing.  The producers have given the predators so much technological and military power at this point in history, that a conventional win against them seems virtually impossible.  However, as I post in ZH now and then, the predators can still be starved.  Not that this approach will be easy, but at least it is still possible.  And, it has the virtue of not getting as many honest, ethical, productive, benevolent people slaughtered.

If producers simply stop producing, after a while the predators have nothing to eat, to fuel their vehicles, no way to pay parasites (government thugs) to jerk us around, etc.  Eventually they and their many tens of millions of paid parasites (government workers and "on the dole") can't be paid... at least, not paid in any form that actually buys them much of anything.

That could bring on a collapse that producers can return from... slowly and carefully.

As you can tell from my other posts in ZH, my approach was to leave the USSA about 3 years ago, and establish a [virtually] self-sufficient place in the extreme boonies of another part of the world.  If you have physical gold savings (as I did before I converted most of it into my self-sufficient place in the boonies), you might consider leaving the USSA before the SHTF.  That was my response to the corruption of the government and society-at-large getting beyond my tolerance limit (and the point of no return in my opinion).  I spent 5 years carefully exploring specific locations in the world before hand, and found several viable place to go.  Especially for those of us who have over $200K in assets (including what you can sell your home for), it is possible to establish a modest but wonderful, [mostly] self-sufficient place somewhere much safer and saner.

In the end, we must all make our own choices, most definitely including the choice of whether to "stay and fight/evade/hope" or "get outta dodge".  But think about it.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 14:18 | 3028204 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I think most of us around here see things the way you do for the most part.  It's a good (interesting/has integrity) story.

Just don't forget to set up one of the tax-deferred accounts to get your day care as an after-tax cost.  You can save thousands that way.  Sorry for the BS/paperwork but it's a lot of money.

And yes, everything in government (including defense, sorry about that too) should probably be cut back to about 1980 levels.  If this is indeed such a fucking emergency as to justify the elite bailouts/debt.  But hey, who's holding their breath on that?

Best of luck.  I'll be up by Lake Superior in WI for Xmas.  Enjoy the season and family.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 02:49 | 3029007 honestann
honestann's picture

You seem like a rational and intelligent guy.  Did you not see what was going to happen before-hand?  I know.  I know.  Many gals may say to marry is only a piece of paper, but then give endless well-timed, well-crafted hints that being married matters to them, which eventually wears guys down.  I'm sorry if that happened in your case, and even sorrier if that "word" (married) or piece of paper is so important to her that she'd rather degrade your shared financial well being to hold onto that paper even now that the consequences are obvious, which I assume must be the case.

If your wife needs to hear this from another gal, tell her that doing everything she can to make your shared lives more viable and successful is a stronger sign of your bond than any piece of paper.  That paper is only a [government and religious] predator device to fleece and control both of you.

If it makes you feel any better (maybe it will), that schmuck who weighs over 4 times more than me, probably owes $40,000 on that truck.  Being a rational guy, I'm sure you understand that a $40,000 debt isn't something positive, much less wonderful.  So the reality isn't quite as bad as you imply (just close).

As you know from reading my ZH messages, I chose to "abandon ship", "get outta dodge", leave the USSA about 3 years ago, because I figured too few rational people like you and your friends existed and would act when the time came (assuming you weren't wiped out first by new additions to the endless chemtrails or other nefarious acts first).

You might want to consider moving out of the USSA too.  What I imagine is your skill set, plus basic rationality, would likely be sufficient to find you a successful life elsewhere on this planet... somewhere much less intrusive and/or where you can avoid more of the predator and parasite drain on your real, physical life, and more importantly (if you're like me), on your happiness and psychological well being.

Once you're fully established outside the circus that is the USSA, you can literally feel your happiness swell inside you.  It was very palpable for me, and I could even feel it in various places on this planet in the 5-ish years I spent exploring the planet for a place to relocate to.

But if you decide you just have to "stand and fight", I understand.  We each must make our own decisions on matters so crucial to our lives.  I hope that in the end you only need to "watch it collapse" rather than litterally "stand and fight", but unfortunately, that is probably unlikely, especially in the USSA.  At least it sounds like you're somewhere in the "American Redoubt" (as I've heard it called from time to time).  Somewhere in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, eastern Oregon or Washington, western Colorado, Utah, northern Nevada/Arizona/NM or thereabouts.  If so, at least you'll have a few allies when the SHTF.  I hope.

I wish you best results.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:22 | 3027596 Demogorgon
Demogorgon's picture

Cut it all off. It's the only chance to save it. But they won't. So we're fucked.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:24 | 3027599 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

We aren't screwed yet. Close but no cigar/

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:26 | 3027600 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

pooffff...

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:42 | 3027609 tsuki
tsuki's picture

I thought as soon as the workers started walking off the job demanding living wages that we'd see articles like this.  Hey all you guys earning minimum wage, you are lucky.  You can keep your public assistance and not have to worry about filling out a tax form.  It is so much more profitable than a living wage.  You have more disposable income, and you can eat filet mignon every night.

 

 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 03:27 | 3027630 spooz
spooz's picture

Okay, you are obviously being sarcastic. Sometimes its hard to tell. 

Anyways, I have to bring up some facts on that wonderful free health care,Medicaid.

"Patients on Medicare were 45% more likely to die than those with private insurance; the uninsured were 74% more likely; and Medicaid patients 93% more likely. That is to say, despite the fact that we will soon spend more than $500 billion a year on Medicaid, Medicaid beneficiaries, on average, fared worse than those with no insurance at all."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/03/02/why-medicaid-is-a-humanitari...

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:59 | 3028048 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

Have you considered the age and income of the people that die?

People in hospice are more likely to die than a person in hospital. Doesn't mean a hospital is better, does it?

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 03:01 | 3027617 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

88/198=44.4%  Romney wasnt too far off?  A guy I know was laid off over 2 yrs ago and receives unemployment benefits but works a cash job as a truck driver.  He says he's never made as much money.  And the truck job doesnt pay that much.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 03:01 | 3027618 Incubus
Incubus's picture

I don't have a "drive" to earn more because I'm content with what I have.  I don't need plushier car seats, or more leather in my car;  I don't need other various indicators that I "have money."  Happiness & contentment is worth more than all of that shit.  Besides, if you're miserable for most of your life getting that shit, is it worth it in the end? 

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:18 | 3027974 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

That's about the size of it. Millions of people uphappily living in class division based on the size of their flat screen TV or the trim level of their car.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 03:13 | 3027626 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Bring back the $500 and $1,000 bills. With loss of purchasing power, we need them.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 04:25 | 3027639 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...talk about the Wave Of Mutilation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4pWeZduz5E 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0WjRmqHz48 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2uqaO1jRyk

...yeah, and to think, the (American) single mother just keeps on riding the beast that has aborted her children, because of her weakness she is so deceived (as a Nation) and does not know she is really screwing herself, like some asshole that votes for the 2 Party 666. Perception esque.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erC9lEWKyEw

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 05:12 | 3027667 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Any report that this single mom lives in the same environment than the other 'hard working' mom?

As told already before, 'americans' are going to put out that the penthouse 'american' playboy living in his condo in NYC has less disposable income than the hobbo down the street the playboy uses as a hurdle when jogging around to maintain good looking body.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 05:37 | 3027674 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...hey AnAnonymous dipshit, use your imaginnation asshole. That's what the report is defining too dipshit. 

Oh wait, you just did, I'm the asshole. Lol.

 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 05:29 | 3027675 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

In the same article it might have been interesting to discuss if wage stagflation has had much to do with this attitude becoming adopted. If the USA is anything like the UK (and I guess it very much is), the wages paid most jobs have not kept up with inflation for many, many years. However, government welfare payments have generally kept pace much better.

I'll write it again. The problem isn't welfare being too generous, it's employers being too stingy and yes, taking advantage of the welfare system by allowing the government to subsidise them. The minimum wage may have ensured that there is a certain amount below which people shouldn't be paid, but it's set at such a low level that it is a complete and utter joke in real terms. Net result, employers pay much less for a growing number of jobs than they once did, knowing the government will pick up the tab.

Don't go blaming the poor wretches who take advantage of welfare payments without exposing the corporate culture that also takes advantage of it... and then moreover, those multinational companies that exploit this system and also don't pay any UK ( or US) tax.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 07:18 | 3027717 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

for all the blood suckers on ZH, oh you know who you are...lets get the O BUM a to exec order:

1. Minimum wage is $50/hr.

2. No business may incr prices for 2 yrs from this date

3. no business can fire anyone for 2 yrs from this date

NOW anyone out there that is a blood sucker tell us how this works out...think really hard and if you do not like the outcome of above you will understand why many on zh hate the welfare state.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 09:49 | 3027812 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Participation in any kind of society eventually ends in theft.

Capitalism, or Socialism, or Communism, or Fucktardism; how do you want to be parted from your money?

 

aaaaaannnnnnd, that's the joke.  Don't take it too seriously because it's all insanity. 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 08:01 | 3027736 Peterus
Peterus's picture

Employers in general can't be "too stingy". People simply shift from that job to another (yes it is not instant shift, but same thing goes to hiring a new person or retraining - costs of transfering go both ways). Firm loses talent, quality and productivity drops - they go bankrupt.

It is normal of employer to look for most productivity gains - for cheapest price. It is normal for employees to look for best paying job. They will meat where supply crosses with demand no matter what they think of this wage level (well for guys paying it will obviously seem "too high" and those recieving "too low").

To get systematic loses in wages all across the board you don't need change in attitude of firm owners to "more greedy". It is irrelevant. Systematic problems caused this and they will still do much, much more harm before they are addressed.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 08:25 | 3027738 Siniverisyys
Siniverisyys's picture

Are the wealth producers subsidizing low wages for low wage earners, or are the wealth producers subsidizing low wages for low wage employers?

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 09:51 | 3027814 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Look, this is how it works.

Minimum wage is £6.19 in the UK. For the avaerage 37 hour week that works out to £229.03 before tax, national insurance etc, or £11,909.56 a year. Average wages in the UK are £30,852 for males and £24,228 for females.

So, what has happened is that employers have tended to pay minimum wage or just above, for a huge number of jobs now and it seems as though the number of jobs paying minimum wage or just above is increasing. Add in the propensity for many jobs now to be part-time too (to get out of having to pay national insurance) and you can quickly see why a huge section of the population might think WTF!

Instead of putting a floor under wages (as intended) it's actually created a false ceiling, whereby employers can get away with paying a wage that is 100% lawful, BUT a 100% non-living wage.

 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 10:10 | 3027838 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

funky, if you are old that is sad because you never understood something so simple..a business makes a profit so it can expand and pay incr wages to owners and employee..now if you sell an item a for a profit of 5% after costs - wages inc..you as the owner get to keep the money - taxes, to do with as you will..take the 5% in taxes and no more cost of living incr or new benefits for your workers, no investments in the business can happen, and an owner who sees his investment has 0 ROI., may look elsewere to invest, causing loss of future job growth..and so on.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 10:01 | 3027824 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Although I understand the idea here, let's face it, normal people don't do this math and decide not to work.   The overwhelming majority of people in this country work.  The real issue is too much spending and too low taxes on unearned income.  There is no reason to have different rates of different types of income.  Bring the corporate income tax down to 10%, and tax dividends, cap gains, etc. and earned income (wages) all at the same rate.  There is no justification for a Wall Street hedge fund guy paying 15% when his secretary pays 29%. 

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:23 | 3027986 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Sure, tax all income equally. Just index income to inflation so if I earn .45% interest on my savings and inflation is 3% I will pay no taxes on it. It is simply insane that we are forced to paying taxes on gains on real estate when most of it is inflation. Now Obamacare is imposing an additional gains tax on real estate. Government creates inflation which only creates further incentives to invest so we might protect ourselves. Then they have the nerve to tax it.

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