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Newtown, CT Elementary School Shooting Tally Rises To 27 Dead, Of Whom 20 Children - Live Video

Tyler Durden's picture


Update 4: the NYT has released a brief biopic on Lanza's, who it turns out had Asperger's Syndrome:

He carried a black briefcase to his 10th-grade honors English class, and sat near the door so he could readily slip in and out. When called upon, he was intelligent, but nervous and fidgety, spitting his words out, as if having to speak up were painful.


Pale, tall and scrawny, Adam Lanza walked through high school in Newtown, Conn., with his hands glued to his sides, the pens in the pocket of his short-sleeve, button-down shirts among the few things that his classmates recalled about him.


He did all he could to avoid attention, it seemed.


Until Friday.


The authorities said Mr. Lanza, 20, wearing combat gear, carried out one of the deadliest mass shootings in the nation’s history. He killed 20 children and six adults at the elementary school where his mother worked, they said. He then apparently turned his gun on himself. The police said he also earlier killed his mother.


In his brief adulthood, Mr. Lanza had left few footprints, electronic or otherwise. He apparently had no Facebook page, unlike his older brother, Ryan, a Hoboken, N.J., resident who for several hours on Friday was misidentified in news reports as the perpetrator of the massacre.


Adam Lanza did not even appear in his high school yearbook, that of the class of 2010. His spot on the page said, “Camera shy.” Others who graduated that year said they did not believe he had finished school.


Matt Baier, now a junior at the University of Connecticut, and other high school classmates recalled how deeply uncomfortable Mr. Lanza was in social situations.


Several said in separate interviews that it was their understanding that he had a developmental disorder. They said they had been told that the disorder was Asperger syndrome, which is considered to be a high functioning form of autism.


“It’s not like people picked on him for it,” Mr. Baier said. “From what I saw, people just let him be and that was that.”


One former classmate who said he was familiar with the disorder described Mr. Lanza as having “very flat affect,” adding, “If you looked at him, you couldn’t see any emotions going through his head.”


Others said Mr. Lanza’s evident discomfort prompted giggles from those who did not understand him.


Law enforcement officials said Friday that they were closely examining whether Mr. Lanza had such a disorder.

More here. Indeed, there is a statistical predisposition, at least anecdotally, for those with Asperger's toward both murder and violence.  In other words, watch as the debate rages over the traditional bogeyman of gun control, in a country with over three hundred million weapons, when we may well simply be talking about a mentally ill young adult.

As for the misidentified Ryan, who for a few brief hours was presented by law enforcement as the suspected shoorter, we learn from the WSJ:

Israel raids Palestinian NGO officesKatie Colaneri, a 24-year-old resident of Hoboken, N.J., described herself as a friend of Ryan, the suspect’s brother who for hours Friday was incorrectly identified as the alleged gunman. “He [is] a little shy, but very nice and sweet,” said Ms. Colaneri, who has known Ryan for over a year.


She said Ryan is a gentle guy who was  devoted to his job at the Ernst & Young accounting firm. A representative for Ernst & Young would not comment on his employment status.


A law-enforcement official briefed on the investigation told the Associated Press that Ryan has been “extremely co-operative” and is not under arrest, although he was still being question late Friday.


The official said Ryan’s computers and phone records were being searched but only “in an abundance of caution.” Ryan told authorities he had not been in touch with his brother Adam in recent years, and the official said he isn’t believed to have any connection to the school killings.


In Hoboken, Ryan lives in a newer building that was hard-hit by superstorm Sandy, Ms. Colaneri said. He lost power for a number of days following the storm.


The last time she saw him, about a month ago, Ms. Colaneri recalled that Ryan ran up to her and gave her a hug.  ”I’m really shocked,” she said. “As the details unfolded, I was totally devastated.”

Update 3: ABC has released a picture of the real shooter, Adam Lanza, taken in 2005 when he was ~13 years old.

Update 2 : NY Post now refuting CNN's initial report, and stating that the shooter's real name is Adam Lanza, not Ryan Lanza, who is instead brother of the latter. At this point there appears to be a ridiculous amount of confusion who did what, so it perhaps would be prudent on behalf of the authorities to double check this information before releasing it to the media. And just out from AP:

The AP confirms this further here:

The suspect in the Connecticut school shootings is Adam Lanza, 20, the son of a teacher at the school where the shootings occurred, a law enforcement official said Friday. A second law enforcement official says the boy's mother, Nancy Lanza, is presumed dead.


Adam Lanza's older brother, Ryan, 24, of Hoboken, N.J., is being questioned by police, said the first official. Earlier, a law enforcement official mistakenly transposed the brothers' first names.


Both officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the record about the developing criminal investigation.


The first official said Adam Lanza is dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.


According to the second official, the suspect drove to the scene of the shootings in his mother's car. Three guns were found at the scene — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols — and a .223-caliber rifle. The rifle was recovered from the back of a car at the school. The two pistols were recovered from inside the school.


The official also said Lanza's girlfriend and another friend are missing in New Jersey.


Meanwhile, former Jersey Journal staff writer Brett Wilshe said he has spoken with Ryan Lanza of Hoboken, who told Wilshe the shooter may have had Ryan Lanza's identification.


Ryan Lanza has a Facebook page that posted updates Friday afternoon that read that "it wasn't me" and "I was at work."

Update: According to CNN the shooter's name is Ryan Lanza, out of New Jersey. Based on a White Pages reverse lookup there is an 18-24 year old Ryan Lanza living in Hoboken, NJ whose FaceBook profile lists Newtown, CT as his home city. Whether it is the same person remains to be confirmed officially.


* * *

Sadly, increasingly it appears that not a day, and certainly not a week can pass, in the US without news of some mass killing somewhere. Several days ago its was a mall in Oregon, and today it is a shooting rampage at the Sandy Hook Elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut. Here is what is known: the shooter, who CBS reports is a 20 year old from New Jersey, is reported to be dead. A second shooting suspect, a 24 year old man with a bulletproof vest and 4 guns has been apprehended in custody (this has subsequently been not confirmed). According to CBS 27 people are dead, of whom 18, Connecticut Post 27 people are dead, of whom 20 tragically, children. Among the dead are the principal and the school psychologist. The AP has already dubbed it "the worst school tragedy in American history."

Live webcast via NBC:

Visit for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy


Pictures from the scene via Reuters

* * *

Live streaming updates on everything Newtown related can be found on the Reuters website here.

More from Reuters:

 At least 27 people, including 18 children, were killed on Friday when at least one shooter opened fire at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, CBS News reported, citing unnamed officials.


If confirmed, it would be one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history. The holiday season tragedy follows a series of shooting rampages in the United States this year that have killed multiple victims, and it was certain to revive a debate about U.S. gun laws.


The principal and school psychologist were among the dead, CNN said. Witnesses reported hearing dozens of shots with some saying as many as 100 were fired.


The suspected shooter, 24, was armed with four weapons and wearing a bullet-proof vest, WABC reported.


There were unconfirmed reports of a second shooter.


Another person was being held in police custody after he was detained in the woods near the school wearing camouflage pants, CBS reported.


Sandy Hook Elementary School teaches children from kindergarten through fourth grade - roughly ages 5 to 10.


"It was horrendous," said parent Brenda Lebinski, who rushed to the school where her daughter is in the third grade. "Everyone was in hysterics - parents, students. There were kids coming out of the school bloodied. I don't know if they were shot, but they were bloodied."


Television images showed police and ambulances at the scene, and parents rushing toward the school. Parents were seen reuniting with their children and taking them home.


"This is going to be bad," a state official told Reuters, requesting anonymity because the scope of the tragedy remained uncertain.


President Barack Obama was notified and would receive regular updates throughout the day, White House spokesman Jay Carney said.


"We're still waiting for more information about the incident in Connecticut," Carney said when asked about the president's reaction to it.


Carney called the event "tragic" and said there would be time later for a discussion of policy implications.


Obama remains committed to trying to renew a ban on assault weapons, Carney said.


All Newtown schools were placed in lockdown after the shooting, the Newtown Public School District said.


Lebinski said a mother who was at the school during the shooting told her a "masked man" entered the principal's office and may have shot the principal. Lebinski, who is friends with the mother who was at the school, said the principal was "severely injured."


Lebinski's daughter's teacher "immediately locked the door to the classroom and put all the kids in the corner of the room."


Danbury Hospital, about 11 miles (18 km) west of the school, had received three patients from the scene, a hospital spokeswoman told NBC Connecticut. The mayor of Danbury, Mark Boughton, told MSNBC: "They are very serious injuries."

An early report from CBS:

A shooting at a Connecticut elementary school Friday left several children and the gunman dead, law enforcement sources tell CBS News. At least one teacher was wounded in the shooting that sent frightened pupils into the parking lot.


It is unclear if there was more than one gunman at the school.


Law enforcement sources told CBS News senior correspondent John Miller that preliminary and unconfirmed information indicates that the shooter was the father of a student.


The shooter was killed and apparently had two guns, a person with knowledge of the shooting told The Associated Press. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still under way.


It wasn't clear how many people were injured at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown. CBS Hartford affiliate WFSB-TV reports around 600 students attend the school.


Connecticut State Police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance described the situation to CBS New York station WCBS-AM as a "very serious school shooting."


A dispatcher at the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance Corps said a teacher had been shot in the foot and taken to Danbury Hospital.


Stephen Delgiadice said his 8-year-old daughter heard two big bangs and teachers told her to get in a corner. His daughter was fine.


"It's alarming, especially in Newtown, Connecticut, which we always thought was the safest place in America," he said.


Lisa Bailey, a Newtown resident with three children in Newtown schools, told, "Newtown is a quiet town. I'd never expect this to happen here. It's so scary. Your kids are not safe anywhere."


The superintendent's office said the district had locked down schools in Newtown, about 60 miles northeast of New York City. Schools in neighboring towns also were locked down as a precaution.


State police said Newtown police called them around 9:40 a.m.


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Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:24 | 3064946 falak pema
falak pema's picture

About innocent mice and looney men....and their lethal instruments.

There, its called drones; here its called hand, fast action guns.

What do we take out of society?

the loonies or the guns?

Impossible to get rid of loonies; especially if the "best and brightest" are the biggest loonies running wild, their lethal, genocidal dronies in dromadaire land.

What an example for the world and...then, "only on CNN"--- now, on every U-tube of GI Joe or Al-Jazeera amateur subscriber, for the world to see American peace and justice in fast action hero; that gives nightmares to the discharged once returned and discarded veterans of traumatic mayhem, the victims also being themselves. 

And it kinda of boomerangs into homeland insecurity in places like Colombine and Newtown. 

Silence of the lambs and the Hannibal Lector is ...some autisitical teenager; Lone ranger of sick, deranged story, in media hyped america. 

What is with the world, is Jamie Diamond now king of America's moral dismay, deep down to its elementary children, the new  fall guys, Amerindian type innocents,  on a NRA clay-pigeon shoot out, freudian expiatory victims of adult frustration?

Pioneer American dreams and Galapagos screams. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:27 | 3064957 laomei
laomei's picture

*GASP* A violent society steeped in violence has an incident of violence.  Good I say, the more dead the better.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:26 | 3065140 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Ya hear about that fuckin chink that stabbed 22 kids yesterday in so Chang Chong Ching town province? If you fuckin chinks had guns your government would be battling its own citizens.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 12:46 | 3071297 laomei
laomei's picture

Ya notice how:

1) No one died

2) The only reason it even made it in the US news was to try and detract from the serious problems the US has

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:29 | 3064960 donethat
donethat's picture

I have not heard one statement, made by the MSM, about the Bath, Michigan high school disaster of 1927.

Because guns were not used?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:33 | 3064978 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Please understand the term "amok".

These type of spree-killings aren't designed to maximise carnage, they're entirely psychotic-localised mental events. Otherwise, you'd simply deprive Detroit or Chicago of power for 72 hours. By then, the fires would light the way, and the pathetic infrastructure [detroit has what? 8 police cars / 100k pop?] would disintegrate.


Give a few trained SAS teams some gear, and you'd cripple America for months. In fact, crippling the energy back-bone of America is the "new bogeyman" now.[1]



Be Seeing You.




[1] You might have me to thank for that, ho-hum.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:30 | 3064966 Savvy
Savvy's picture

One thing I've noticed... A vast majority of ZHers are for common sense, put the ability to protect yourself and others in responsible hands. But go read the comments at CNN or FOX, a vast majoriy are screaming for making guns illegal, dismantling the NRA, making potential victims of every single American. Brain washed. :sad:

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:56 | 3065045 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

How many of those posters on those sites who are anti-defense are Paid O-Phone Trolls?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:32 | 3064972 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Father of shooter is a vice president of taxes for GE Energy Financial Services, lives in Stamford, CT.

NBC News says guns were legally purchased and owned bythe shooter's mother.

ABC News:says neighbors describe suspected CT school shooter Adam Lanza as "displaying characteristics associated with mental illness"

If you know your son has mental problems, why would you keep guns in your house?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:37 | 3064986 carlnpa
carlnpa's picture

Two serious shootings now where there is a reported second shooter -

Who just disappears???


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:46 | 3065014 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yep. I have alluded to that today.  Good catch.

This needs to be kept alive.  ZH may be the only place we can find out.

Another suspect who disappears. Just like Aurora. Just like Columbine.... Just like the Sikh Temple Shooter(s)...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:04 | 3065061 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

If you want an "in" into the mind-set, it's humour, it's the tip of the hand that shows contempt. And like that, *puff*, he's gone. [Note the film title, and this scene].

You'll find the humour psychotic; they don't. A primer, from long ago (in modern form).


A poster here alluded to the differences between the finite game and the infinite game to me recently. Oh, you just have to listen to Albright, US Secretary of State saying that 500,000 children dying is worth it. 22 dead American Children?



I think that's considered "worth it", in those terms.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:38 | 3064991 Gold N Glocks
Gold N Glocks's picture

Lock and load patriots.  It's beginning.


Hope to see you on the other side when we've freed this nation.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:45 | 3065012 WezTheJuic
WezTheJuic's picture

This IS,very sad. No Question. YET, this is a continued example of those means to create THAT end. The American people know this fact. 


Hell, how many articles exist out there that have stated this obvious fact?  These examples will continue until......

A_  The American people are disarmed to where they lose the right to protect themselves from the current police state dictraitorship.  THESE ARE THE LAST PEOPLE ON EARTH THAT HAVE THIS RIGHT. 


B_  The American people will realize why these levels of violence are happening, and they call out such actions to be treasonous.  Meaning. accepting that there are people within, that do not care about the American people, and will pursue these ends by destroying the American people.


C_ AND unfortunately, people will get caught up in the emotion of such insanity to where the loss of any thought will be gone, and you get the start of that real ugly.  "THAT UGLY", (I still do not want to say it, because that also plays right into the destruction of the American people.)


QUIT PLAYING the political football.  GET OFF, of the drama. 







Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:48 | 3065016 Translator
Translator's picture

I agree with Obama , it's time to put the Bill of Rights and the United States Constitution on hold.



We should strip all Americans of their 2nd ammendment rights too, if one American dares say something that Obama does not like........



yep "Obama and Romney are exactly the same"



Fuckin stupid moron Ron Paul are things working out for you freedom loving ass clowns?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:53 | 3065039 Skip
Skip's picture

Belafonte on GOP: Obama Needs To "Work Like A 3rd World Dictator & Just Put All These Guys In Jail" - YouTube:

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:03 | 3065065 Translator
Translator's picture

Most morons (Americans) have no idea of what they are up against with Obama&Co.



Imagine voting for Ron Paul, instead of someone who was actually on the ballot, who actually had a chance of dethroning the Serial Liar In Chief.....





Fucking Morons

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:30 | 3065150 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

When you're playing Chess, you should realise that the pieces on the board are all being played by others.

Grow Up. Or watch Fox News, and believe it.



Both will damn you to ignorance and apostasy from the meld.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:34 | 3065155 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The Bill of Rights and the Constitution have been on-hold since 9/11/2001.  Obama's just carrying on the same policies.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:50 | 3065020 Skip
Skip's picture

School Shootings in Europe, Germany and Finland come to mind, are NOT rare events, per capita there are MORE deaths in Europe from "School Shootings" than in the USA, but The Obama and his MSM minions won't tell you that.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:59 | 3065053 AGORACOM
AGORACOM's picture

Well, when you put it that way, as long as more children are dying in other western nations, America is winning the school children death count race and there is no need to do anything until they do.

I see the logic.  No, I see through the logic.


George ... The Greek ... And Conservative ... From Canada

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:51 | 3065025 Agent 440
Agent 440's picture

AP has it wrong. The worst school massacre is still the 1927 Bath Michigan event.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:53 | 3065037 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

...on purpose.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:51 | 3065026 Agent 440
Agent 440's picture

AP has it wrong. The worst school massacre is still the 1927 Bath Michigan event.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:52 | 3065029 AGORACOM
AGORACOM's picture


1.  Has there ever been a time when a mass murdering gunman was actually shot and killed by a citizen (not law enforcement) who also happened to be carrying a gun or had one stored nearby?

2.  If not, isn't the whole notion of the right to bear arms working 100% completely against you?

From where I sit, it simply appears gun advocates are cutting off their noses to spite their faces ... and today we simply lost too many fuckin' noses without any corresponding return on the whole arms bearing investment. 

George ... The Greek ... And A Conservative ... From Canada



Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:00 | 3065054 Translator
Translator's picture

Dear Ignorant Moron FuckTard Canadian Asshat,



The right to bear arms is so that citizens can overthrow the government if the government decides to  take away the rights of citizens that are guaranteed under the Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the United States.(including the right to bear arms and to overthrow the government)



Learn to fucking read before posting such drivel.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:03 | 3065067 AGORACOM
AGORACOM's picture

1.  Great Intro.  Poetic.

2.  Yes, I'm aware of its purpose to overthrow a rights obliterating government

3.  I'm pretty sure your guns won't be much of a match for their military if they ever decide to take your rights by force

4.  Your kids and citizens are dying today. 

George ... The Greek ... And Conservative ... From Canada

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:28 | 3065144 Encroaching Darkness
Encroaching Darkness's picture

"1.  Has there ever been a time when a mass murdering gunman was actually shot and killed by a citizen (not law enforcement) who also happened to be carrying a gun or had one stored nearby?"

OK, I'll bite:

Your question PRESUPPOSES that a free press, dedicated to the exposure and promotion of the TRUTH, is present, active and attentive. Not one which would bury, ignore and distort any story which fails to fit their NARRATIVE.

Narrative. Like that word? They tell STORIES, designed to lull children to sleep. The TRUTH rarely inspires sleep, or passivity, or rest.

Now do you understand why such stories are rare? Although, here a mall shooter was killed (a few years back) by an off-duty police officer (not in uniform, not in his jurisdiction); does that count?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:35 | 3065159 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Too bad Translator didn't have a gun on him so he could shoot your asshat Canadian self.

That'd help his argument heaps, I'm sure.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:49 | 3065208 perchprism
perchprism's picture


Dickhead, schools are "no guns" zones.   Teachers aren't allowed to protect themselves.   Ditto the principal and "school psychologist"--now all dead.  

Heinlein had it right.  An armed society is a polite society.  If it was normal procedure for the male teachers to all carry, these murderers would think twice before attacking a school.

The government will never get my weapons while I live.  A few million other Americans think likewise.  It'll never happen.  Guns are what guarantee our freedoms against democide commies in this country.  Without the threat of our guns, government would slaughter millions of us.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:43 | 3065383 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

       If it was normal procedure for the male teachers to all carry, these murderers would think twice before attacking a school.

You really think a suicide was going to be deterred by threat of death?

Why would you think that?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:43 | 3065382 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

"I'm pretty sure your guns won't be much of a match for their military if they ever decide to take your rights by force"

I guess someone forgot to tell the Afghans...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:01 | 3065554 perchprism
perchprism's picture


At the very least, it would become more problematic.  Some suicides deliberately attack cops, hoping to die in a blaze of glory. 

But the teachers would have had a chance to defend themselves.  Their own rules sealed their fates.  The gunman went to the school secure in the knowledge that it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:01 | 3065057 negative rates
negative rates's picture

It's sort of like don't fight the Fed, cops actually shoot back, where as kids, not so much.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:03 | 3065060 magpie
magpie's picture

I find it highly ironic that faux conservatives/liberals in disguise tout the media-savvy mass killings but never cite statistics to all violent crime before and after gun bans.

Oh by the way, Canada the fake state, i'm out to get you.

Free Quebec and Newfoundland, brah.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:21 | 3065120 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics
July 31st, 2012 Submitted by Davi Barker

Last week I posted a graphic on Facebook claiming the average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 18.25, and the average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by civilians is 2.2. I based it on 10 shootings I found listed on some timeline somewhere. I honestly don’t even remember where. I presented the case studies in a blog post on the Silver Circle blog and I did the math myself...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:21 | 3065123 besnook
besnook's picture

crimes like these have nothing to do with gun control either. the gun control advocates and the gun carrying advocates are way off on this. this is purely a cultural issue. there is something in the water in the usa that makes an inordinate number of people resort to violence of a truly insane nature from barroom drunks to maniacal genius'. arming everyone would make career criminals think twice. there are many examples of citizens stopping or interrupting criminals with their guns. there would also be a huge increase in accidental shootings and passion shootings as a statistical exercise. taking guns away in a society like the usa is likely to turn the country into a criminal's paradise.

the gun issue is only a symptom of the bigger issue. usa society and culture is a dysfunctional mess. the fish stinks from the head to the tail. some here have argued a breakdown in morality. another arguement is cultural diversity. another assertion is violent media making people more violent prone or desensitized to violence. my arguement is, all of these issues contribute to the state of the usa but all of these emanate from a concerted effort by politicians and media to divide people into separate social, cultural, economic, political, religious, ethnic, gender and racial lines creating a total us vs them mentality while everyone can see there is a two or three tier justice syste allowing the a small group of very wealthy and powerful people get away with murder while .gov has allowed the hollowing out of the middle class squeezing people with stress until their eyes pop out making them time bombs set to explode with the minimum of provocation.

i don't travel to the mainland usa but once a year. my perspective is like a time lapse. the mainland usa is bat shit crazy. that stress needs to be released collectively in a much more constructive way aimed at .gov, the fed and banksters and .gov before anything will change. in the present state, it will only get worse.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:24 | 3065132 AGORACOM
AGORACOM's picture

Thanks for the response.  I definitely buy into your bigger picture.

George ... The Greek ... And Conservative ... From Canada

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:33 | 3065154 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Its a multi-faceted reason 'why' with no simple singular answer as you alluded to but a real reason for the overall level of gun violence in the US is how easy (basically a joke as long as you have the cash) to obtain a firearm in the U.S.  We have firearm homicide rates that are typically only seen in disfunctional or lawless states/regions. 

Agree though that more strict gun control laws though sadly wouldn't have likely done anything to prevent this tragedy.  Banning guns in the U.S. is a non-starter and even I wouldn't support a complete ban either.  

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:40 | 3065176 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    the mainland usa is bat shit crazy. that stress needs to be released collectively in a much more constructive way

+1.  Nailed it, although as soon as you start declaring your targets, you fall into exactly the same "us vs. them" mentality that you so effectively describe.

Yes, things need to change, but it's not obvious that "attacking" ANY individual, institution, or group is really the correct approach. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:59 | 3065232 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

besnook yes.  There is symptoms and there is more symptoms.  Nobody wants to ask "why?"

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:47 | 3065187 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

An unbaised answer:

1) Yes; Texas Guntower - local police called on locals to arm themselves to end the amok, local took him down. Here.

2) Yes, but not because of the reasons you're aiming at. Most studies show that legal gun-ownership actually correlates with a less predisposition towards crime. AKA, apart from "passion" killings [i.e. emotional rages usually coupled with drugs of some sort, be it legal or illegal], gun owners are actually some of the most law abiding citizens out there. However, in a gun rich environment, criminals will use guns to the order of x8 more frequently [of course, the nature of the crime has impact: see further - blue collar physical bank robberies in UK / EU + firearms]

3) Canada has (in some parts) an equal gun ownership ratio to America. As does Switzerland [although, yes: this is not an example that can be compared to the USA for many reasons]. Let's go back to Canada ~ in fact, multiple research projects have shown that: IT IS NOT THE AMOUNT OF GUNS IN A POPULACE THAT CORRELATES TO CRIME, MURDER OR SPREE KILLING, BUT...

And now, we hold our breath, and ZH nails me to a cross:

It's actually to do with socio-economic inequality and social ties. The greater the first, and the looser the second, the more gun violence you get. #SpreeKillings are something totally different, and shouldn't be part of this: see China this morning, one guy, 22 kids with a knife. Gun control / legislation has little impact on spree killing apart from...



IF your society is fucked up, full of inequality, injustice, rampant racism and shit, then sure, the "bad guys" will shoot you. Herp, Derp, watch MadMax II. The opposite is true: make a good society, people won't shoot you the fuck up.  Note: This all has NOTHING to do with this case, because this is a spree-killing.


Spree-killing? The dynamics of that are far more complex. But an equal society can certainly alleviate some of the triggers. But these are minor considerations into the triggers, really. The major triggers are dominant hierarchal abuse, coupled with social exclusion and aggressive traits. Hint: this is what America breeds in its schools.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:48 | 3065394 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    The major triggers are dominant hierarchal abuse, coupled with social exclusion and aggressive traits. Hint: this is what America breeds in it's schools.

Sometimes that's done all in the home, too, which is relatively easy here with strong "what goes on in another man's castle is only his business" mentality.

I subscribe to that mentality myself, and it wouldn't surprise me in the LEAST if I found out decades later a family friend or neighbor had been running a sex/torture/murder dungeon a few blocks away.  C'est la vie.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:32 | 3065355 bilejones
bilejones's picture


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:08 | 3065070 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Over on Daily Kooks they are having a field day, even talking about repealing the 2nd amendment.

Now I don't think this will happen, but things are starting to heat up.  You have to remain vigilant because, as you know, liberals are after what you have.

Historically speaking guns have never really been under threat, but at the very least, if the Republicans cave, we might be looking at another assault rifle ban (even if assault rifles weren't used in this incident...but who said anything was based on logic?).  It's all emotions now.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:18 | 3065113 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

It is an assault Weapon ban under discussion, not an assault Rifle ban.    In CA a pistol with more than ten rounds in its magazine is banned assault weapon.   Instant felony just to have a 10+round magazine for it, weirdly enough.   Possession of the pistol it goes with is a lesser matter.  

This is of course triply stupid, because higher cap magazines are easy to create or obtain by those with intent to go out taking down a lot of other people with them, but on top of that, practicing switching out magazines is just the sort of this a murder obsessed nutbag would spend time doing, with a great big collection of 10 rounders.

Beyond that, know that lots of control freak politicians would like all semiautomatic weapons defined as "Assault" weapons.   That would be something like 90 to 95% of handguns sold in the last twenty years.   Tens of millions of guns.   Only criminals and patriots would hang onto theirs, given a ban.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:18 | 3065296 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Wow you're right.

Live and learn I guess.  I didn't realize that up until now.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:09 | 3065081 grunk
grunk's picture

I don't see the governments of the world volunteering to ban their own guns.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:11 | 3065089 steelrules
steelrules's picture

The killer's mother was a teacher, I'll bet this guy was on prozac from an early age.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:58 | 3065230 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Lots of children have died; try not to be a total ignorant cunt, ok?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:03 | 3065241 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

ignorant cunt is trying to put the pieces together.  He's on to something.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:11 | 3065280 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

No, he's not.

1) He's fucking got the wrong drug: Ritalin isn't given for "depression", it's given for ADHD and no-one under 16 can be prescribed prozac, you ignorant hicks.

2) I'll repeat that for you: No-one under 16 can be prescribed SSRI inhibitors: why? Oh, right - because of the potential side-effects and legal suites, not the fact that it's a terrible drug.



And so on.


Fucking animals. My dog is more intelligent.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:29 | 3065340 steelrules
steelrules's picture

Well then go talk to your fucking dog because I have no tollerence for fucks like you that prove them selves functionally illiterate.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:39 | 3065374 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Sorry, how did that work in that tiny pea brain of yours? I would strongly suggest we not get into a pissing match over "education" and "earnings" because you're going to lose.

In fact, I'm only answering this because your claim is so fucking bizarre.

"Illiterate". Ok then.





It's "tolerance", from your illiterate lover.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:10 | 3065277 steelrules
steelrules's picture

The only cunts here are the ones that put kids on prozac because the kid seems depressed or ritalin because the kid fidgets in his chair.

I know this because Ritalin fucked up nephew and Prozac fucked up my sister-in-law any more questions fucktard?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:22 | 3065290 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

See Above. Ritalin is an amphetamine. Prozac is a SSRI inhibitor.

One cannot be given to people under 16.

Stop being ignorant. Oh, and thanks - before you answered, and before I read this, I had already guessed your "beef". That either makes me psychic or just knowing how the average American works. I should bet on that, I'd make a fortune: Oh, wait. Betting against 401ks is like a turkey shoot these days.

Oh, and btw: You total tool: try researching into diet, and Google: "40% diet improvement behaviour prison" for a SHOCKING STUDY. Guess what it shows? That with proper nutrition and not feeding your sprogs sugar-coated-fake-food-ENumbers, guess what?

They stop being violent, they stop crime, and they stop being aggressive.


Grrrah. Chimp.



Ye Gods, this is a hard place to find grace.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:58 | 3065337 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Oh, and don't be a bitch and junk-and-run.

Either post a disagreement, or man the fuck up, and learn something. If you can't do either, fuck off to Fox News, it'll think for you. Try thinking.


I know it's hard, you've never had to do it before, but trust me: it's worth it.


[p.s. Running a book on ignorant junks ~ "WINNING" so far] Sheesh, all too easy.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:04 | 3065245 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Certainly possible.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:13 | 3065095 Manthong
Manthong's picture

The cops should seize his freakin' X-Box and lay it and all of the game cartridges out for the press the way they want to lay out the guns and magazines..

right in front of easels displaying his iPod "music" playlists.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:13 | 3065097 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

The shooter used two handguns: 9 mm. Glock and sig sauer. He had more guns/rile in his car.

As someone from CT, Newtown is an upscale area.  It's a very idyllic typical  New England town. These towns are beautifully decorated around X-mas.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:20 | 3065115 buffettwanab
buffettwanab's picture

Sad day for all.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:51 | 3065195 newengland
newengland's picture

I would like to inspect the communications trail of the shooter's most recent associates; who tipped him over the edge?

Mass killing of children in CT is a crisis too good to waste for certain hateful cynics in DC, and their dupes.

It is useful for cynics to demoralise the Republic, and aid the corporatists.

Big Brother government wants total control, by fair means or foul. The shooter was only 20 years old, impressionable, clearly hating his teacher mother who he killed first with guns registered in her name. Why would a kindergarten teacher have guns?

Why did her son hate her so much that he killed her, and then slaughtered the objects of her attention - other children.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:04 | 3065251 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

I didn't see the despot shed any tears over the hundreds of Latinos murdered with high-powered rifles smuggled by Eric Holder's central bureau of injustice.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:39 | 3065371 newengland
newengland's picture

Quite so.

However, one child is every child, and the dead children in Newtown ought to be given back to their families now, rather than being dehumanised as a 'crime scene'.

It's rather sickening that warmonger politicos weap on TV only when it suits their agenda of state control; more guns for their forces, and less for any other community.

Note the location: Newtown, CT.

The hateful old feudalists want to weaken the Republic, and intensely dislike any new town, and New England in particular. No surrender.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 10:55 | 3066176 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

There is something odd about the make/type of weapons vs. this mom/teacher.

Too bad she is dead and cannot testify to the firearms' origin...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:16 | 3065106 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Man this thread is full of a lot of nasty and foolish comments including these general themes:

1. The problem is that this was a 'gun-free' zone

2. We need to arm teachers

3. We need to 'harden' schools with metal detectors & increased security & limited entrances 

Never mind that these solutions are largely impractical, unwise, and in some cases really foolish (limited entrances which would be a huge issue if there was a fire). 

There isn't an easy answer to prevent this kind of massacre if you want to have widely-available firearms and ammo to a wide range of weapons.  I would favor more strict purchase requirements up front, more enforcement of actual laws, heightened sentences for crimes committed with firearms (while decriminalizing things like prostitution/drug possession), and going after the gun show loopholes and other limitatios in existing gun purchases.  It would ever eliminate the power but there is a good chance it would lessen the problem (e.g., gun-related homicide and violence).  

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:21 | 3065116 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I forget the other ridiculous and completely absurd 'he would have killed these people via other means.'  Yeah its really easy to kill that people with a knife, hammer, or bat.  Such flawed logic that it doesn't demand a response. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:44 | 3065191 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Noxious gas
Ok! Poof! Guns are gone. I bet there'd be shooting within 12 hours. We need an honest conversation. We need better and more realistic ideas. This is about a madman. The gun was the means and judging by what he did, it was just a matter of time.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:11 | 3065284 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

I guess the 22 kids slashed in China today is notwithstanding?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:06 | 3065255 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

As I understand it, the weapons used were stolen.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:32 | 3065349 newengland
newengland's picture

The weapons were legally registered in the name of the shooter's mother who was a kindergarten school teacher. He killed her first, then the kindergarten children, and finally himself; poor boy, only aged 20, clearly deranged, a tortured soul. His parents and their beliefs are to blame, in my opinion. What were their beliefs as good little government workers, agents of the statists?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:18 | 3065110 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

As horrible as this is, a person who starts his murderous activity by killing his father, and then his mother and for spite a classroom full of children is so full of hate and moral dysfunction that no law or sign is going to stop him.  

Just a few days ago, a madman in China murdered almost two dozen children with a knife. A lot of killing can be done without a firearm.  For example: The Happy Land fire was an arson fire that killed 87 people trapped in an unlicensed social club called "Happy Land" (at 1959 Southern Boulevard) in the West Farms section of The Bronx, New York, on March 25, 1990. Most of the victims were young ethnic Hondurans celebrating Carnival.[1] Unemployed Cuban refugee Julio González, whose former girlfriend was employed at the club, was arrested shortly after and ultimately convicted of arson and murder. from:
Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:29 | 3065149 giorgioorwell
giorgioorwell's picture

Get your facts straight.  The madman in China happened today too, a sad and crazy coincidence, and would you like to guess how many of these children were killed after his knife attack?  

None...I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.



Sat, 12/15/2012 - 08:05 | 3066000 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Kill, injure, it is all the same for 'americans'

'Americans' have this urge for symetry and will find it in every asymetric situation.

Their 'american' nature.

So killing is the same as injuring. It has to be because 'americans' need some symetric situation somewhere else to divert from the core of it: 'americanism'.

Today, that is China, tomorrow that will be some african pit holes.

'Americans' can not face the reality of 'americanism' and need to take shelter into fantasy for some protection. And they wont let facts embarass them. They cant do that.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 08:22 | 3066016 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous said:

'Americans' can not face the reality of 'americanism' and need to take shelter into fantasy for some protection. And they wont let facts embarass them. They cant do that.

Projecting much? Your inability to self indiction and retreat to tralalaland is a pattern of repeation. The repeation pattern of depiction of a repeation of events grows a repeation itself, as if repeation makes the true story out of false facts.

Ah, keep repeation as if to make believe it is not true. Your quasi-intellectual hobboism and transparency is clearly seen through.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:31 | 3065151 giorgioorwell
giorgioorwell's picture

Get your facts straight.  The madman in China happened today too, a sad and crazy coincidence, and would you like to guess how many of these children were killed after his knife attack?  

None...I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.



Sat, 12/15/2012 - 08:09 | 3066004 Sambo
Sambo's picture

Case closed.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:07 | 3065236 newengland
newengland's picture

He killed his father first, then his mother?

Poor, poor boy, only aged 20, and then he killed himself, and now venal politicians are going to blame him alone rather than consider the deeper issue of mental health. It's easier to blame guns. The shooter killed himself after the massacre; he was a tortured soul, poor boy.

I would like to inspect the communications trail, and see who pushed him over the edge.

Dark arts, indeed, useful to the DC corporatists.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:32 | 3065134 newengland
newengland's picture

Give those children back to their parents immediately instead of making them a 'crime scene'.

The shooter killed himself. He was only 20 years old; killed his kindergarten teacher  mother first, then killed those she loved. The guns were registered in her name, so this is a case of a dysfunctional family, and I pity the shooter as much as the dead children.

Politicians are jumping all over this story and claiming like Obama that guns are bad.

WRONG. Politicians who encourage irresponsibility are bad. Where is the shooter's father? Why did the shooter kill public school children? Why did the mother have 3 guns registered in her name, yet her son killed her first, then attacked the community, children?

Most schools lock doors after the children arrive. Staff cannot be expected to be full time bodyguards. Did this school? The shooter killed the principal. Was he deranged by hatred for the hypocrisy of teachers, and bureaucrats generally? He was only 20 years old, and his kindergarten mother had 3 guns registered in her name.

The USA was founded as a Republic whereby individuals defend each other and make an honest living. Democracy is mob rule - ain't that right Washington DC?

You have created mob rule in many places, and want to use this incident as a means to disarm honest people, whilst your political fans kill with impunity.

No surrender. 

Give those slain children back to their families immediately, instead of making them a 'crime scene' for the benefit of jobsworth bureaucrats and politicians.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:25 | 3065135 newengland
newengland's picture

Give those children back to their parents immediately instead of making them a 'crime scene'.

The shooter killed himself. He was only 20 years old; killed his kindergarten mother first, then killed those she loved. The guns were registered in her name, so this is a case of a dysfunctional family, and I pity the shooter as much as the dead children.

Politicians are jumping all over this story and claiming like Obama that guns are bad.

WRONG. Politicians who encourage irresponsibility are bad. Where is the shooter's father? Why did the shooter kill public school children? Why did the mother have 3 guns registered in her name, yet her son killed her first, then attacked the community, children?

The USA was founded as a Republic whereby individuals defend each other and make an honest living. Democracy is mob rule - ain't that right Washington DC?

You have created mob rule in many places, and want to use this incident as a means to disarm honest people, whilst your political fans kill with impunity.

No surrender. 

Give those slain children back to their families immediately, instead of making them a 'crime scene' for the benefit of jobsworth bureaucrats and politicians.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:27 | 3065142 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I can't believe that amounts of idiots on here too act as if someone with a concealed weapon DEFINITELY would have prevented this. BS.

As a gunowner, I know how bad your chances are if you are surprised by someone walking into a room with their weapon drawn prepared to fire on you.  If the shooters has a vest/body armor, then your chances are that much more slim of getting a shot which permanently disables the shooter. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:39 | 3065170 steelrules
steelrules's picture

Maybe the childeren even one would have survived.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:45 | 3065192 Savvy
Savvy's picture

How much more slim than having no weapon at all? If it was your classroom the gunman was firing on... no gun in the drawer is better while 22 children are mowed down? Grow a fucking pair.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:01 | 3065238 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture


It's not getting many upvotes in with the frothing hordes of cunts, but I'll +1 you. Too many fatties watching Rambo and Commando, and thinking that's how it plays out in a fucking School.


Yes, they're ignorant cunts. And I hate using that word.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:37 | 3065250 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Monkey Crabtree bullet funk zap.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:07 | 3065257 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Nothing is definite.  However, your odds of stopping an active shooter, if you are armed yourself, go way up if you have a firearm and know how to use it.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 22:01 | 3065420 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yes, and that's why we want all under 10 yr olds armed to the teeth. Here's a MASSIVE tip: Canada has the same amount of gun ownership, but not the same paranoid TSA / fail schooling and not the same spree killing.


Gee Wizz Batman, do you think it could be something other than guns that cause this?



Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:08 | 3065266 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

If you want to see an idiot, look in the mirror. This assclown didn't walk in to a local gun show and try to start unloading did he? Wonder why. Least resistance had in a 'gun free zone'.

Just because you'd wet your pants if it happened, doesn't mean a trained person would, and body armor or no - he isn't going to want to be shot at, and if he can be temorarily disabled some men could have a chance to overtake him.

Apparently you are happy with the result seen in gun free zones?



Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:16 | 3065297 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

All it takes is a massive tragedy for the loons to come out and act mighty. Way to represent Dexter.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:22 | 3065321 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Thanks, but can't take the credit away from you.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:39 | 3065345 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Alphalpha loves Darla.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:16 | 3065300 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Then maybe we should outlaw body armor.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:28 | 3065146 Zola
Zola's picture

THANK YOU TO THE ZH reader who posted the link to this youtube video about the RFK assasination, TRULY EYE OPENING, Tyler i think this is very worthy material for ZH front page.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:25 | 3065333 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Zola, thank you, fantastic link.  thank you thank you thank you.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:36 | 3065153 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

The real tragedy is that millions of children are handed over to government thugs each day who "teach" and "protect" said children.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:35 | 3065157 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

So that kid looks fucking creepy....remember it was the gun not the person behind the trigger and if we all just turn in all of our weapons, all violence will completely stop and our loving government will take car of us.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:37 | 3065162 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

America America what have you become - a land of gun loving idiots that put more faith in a simple piece of metal meant for one purpose - reap what you sow  - and may ALL members of the NRA have a fucking stroke and die.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:39 | 3065168 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

I am embarassed to share my first name with you


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:44 | 3065189 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

Don't worry you embarass yourself enough

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:43 | 3065181 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Adult great apes have been murdering young great apes for probably 10 million years. The real idiots are great apes like you who allow emotion to rule them without perspective.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:51 | 3065212 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

Thanks for the anthropology lesson... I take it then that these massacres are only a matter of course. Why then does it happen in this country so much? Could it be the culture of violence and aggression, the national doctrine of false flag and preemptive strike. Are these children (and libtard unionized teachers) simply collateral damage on the road to the triumph of American fascism?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:04 | 3065240 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

This shit happens everywhere all the time. Some wacko in China did the same thing with a knife today...,0,559...

And I'm not going to argue what's worse with you (having a child shot to death or mutilated with a knife).

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:00 | 3065233 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

In a way, I can't disagree - we have aborted what, 40+ MILLION babies, legally, in this country. With approx. 1800 abortion providers  - do the math on the amount per provider and it actually makes this guy look sort of lame.

But, gee, the NRA had nothing to do with that, and it is a sacred right of women apparently, so I suppose is all just great in your eyes.

Yes indeed, we do reap what we sow my friend.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:55 | 3065403 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You'd never be able to recognize the vast majority of what you just called "murder victims" as human, though.  Literally.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:35 | 3065614 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

more so with each year that passes - sad very sad indeed

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:43 | 3065184 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

I wonder if Pakistani TV gives wall to wall coverage when droney drops by  and obliterates a dozen or so children.

The double standard of self righteous Americans is sickening.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:09 | 3065272 djsmps
djsmps's picture

It would get boring. In every case, the shooter would be named Obama.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:08 | 3065668 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

your comment sums it up. This is the world we have sown. It is coming back to haunt us. And perpetrated by our own.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:49 | 3065207 Legolas
Legolas's picture

I feel sad for all the people who send their children to government schools.  Don't they know they aren't safe there? 

I think we should consider getting rid of government schools.  How many kids die there every year?  How many are also being exposed to all the softkill techniques being inflicted on them (gmo foods, vaccines, forcing them to learn about deviant, self destructive lifestyles)?

This is truly a sad day. 

Beware, the fix is in!  Prepare accordingly.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:52 | 3065213 smacker
smacker's picture

As I fully expected, within hours of this sad incident happening, Obama and Lefty MSM are already on the stump agitating for new gun laws in America. Here in the UK, Sky News got started within ONE HOUR of the news breaking and it's now become their main issue of debate regarding this incident.

American people who believe in their Constitutional Right to bear arms will very soon be under relentless attack from the Left to run roughshod over the Constitution and ban privately owned guns or at least to apply severe ownership restrictions.

Those who do not stand up to this intimidation will be faced with guns only in possession of criminals and agents of The Almighty State. When that happens you will become like the peoples of Europe: obedient sheep. God Help America.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:17 | 3065301 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

It's that asshole Costa ranting against guns during an NFL game that has me ticked. A new low for the NFL.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:17 | 3065304 WeekendTrader
WeekendTrader's picture

Everybody should have a gun. We should send 5 year olds to school with AK47s. That will solve it all. Actually, because guns don't kill (people do) we should give every household a nuke. One can't be sure enough you know. It is perfectly safe because nukes don't kill, people do.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 06:48 | 3065938 smacker
smacker's picture

So, please tell me how you're going to solve gun crime by banning guns. Criminals will still have access to guns and will continue to use them. This is a known certainty. It's very likely that if guns were banned, incidents involving them would increase as the criminals would be more certain that their victim(s) were unarmed and can therefore be safely attacked and robbed with impunity.

Once you are unarmed, you become defenceless sheep...see the UK & Europe (eg Greece, Spain, Italy) for how this plays out: millions of pennyless citizens impoverished by government policies resorting to throwing stones at heavily armed police, before they go raking thru trash cans looking for food. The political elites ignore their protests and carry on regardless.

You might as well just lay down with your legs in the air and have I SURRENDER tattooed on yer ass. Or just vote for totalitarian government and be done with it.

The purpose of your 2nd Amendment: to defend yourself against armed criminals and to hold your criminal government to account. The latter is long overdue; you need more guns in the hands of people willing to use them to save the nation from destruction by the criminal political/banking elites.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:30 | 3065336 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Yeah it is pretty disgusting the way they use tragedies to further their agenda.

I beseech you, be a man.  Do not give them an inch!  Not now, not ever.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:53 | 3065216 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

The horror, my God the horror, innocent children slaughtered, a mother murdered by her own son, how ghastly can it get?  Understand that there are people who walk among us that have no souls. They are like black holes and will suck in and destroy those that come in contact with them. 


I once had long conversations with a man named Herbert Lee Evans.  He liked to murder and rape little girls.  He liked them just as they were about to go through the change.   We think he murdered 18.   After several years he came to realize I was never going to recommend him for parole.  So our little annual meetings became simply a formality.  In time we took off our social masks and I asked him, “Lee why did you kill those little girls before you raped them?”  He said, “Mr. C., I just didn’t like to hear them bitch!”  The bastard finally died in prison from liver cancer.  I hope he died screaming.  It could not have happened to a more deserving guy.


Understand folks that there are evil people in the world.  The only reason that any of us are still alive is because one of these heartless bastards has not locked onto us.  If one of them wants you he will get to you.   The police cannot protect you.  Your family cannot protect you.  Our perceived security provides us a false feeling of safety but rest assured,  it is but an illusion.  There is no greater security than that which can be had in our prisons.  Murders, rapes and robberies still take place.  So, in the night, when the glass breaks it is up to you.


The simple fact is that you cannot make yourself safe by making me defenseless.   The right to self-defense is a natural right.  It is not a privilege given to me by the state. Neither you nor the state can take that right from me.  Attempt it and you will spark a civil war. 



Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:07 | 3065256 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

I totally agree on the self defense thing, but I'm not so sure "evil" really exists. I'm positive that "order" and "disorder" exists in nature however.


If evil really does exist, then I fear those who want to "do good" or have labelled themselves "good", more than I fear those who are labelled "evil".

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:48 | 3065392 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture


It exists.  It has a firm hand shake and an easy smile.  It looks just like you and me but it is not like you and me.  For it, people are like paper cups, something to be utilized, used up and thrown away.



Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:58 | 3065411 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture


To Whit:


You have to be trusted

by the people that you lie to

so that when they turn their backs on you

You'll get the chance to put the KNIFE IN...

   ~Mssrs. Waters & Gilmour

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 22:31 | 3065496 Thoth
Thoth's picture

The evil has consumed us. Look at the actions of those who we elect to represent us and try to explain how they aren't symptoms of a sick society. The drugs they have prescribed everyone can only patch over the sick condition long enough for true evil to take hold.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 08:08 | 3066002 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Hey, better to discuss evil and good, order and disorder rather than 'americanism'.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 08:12 | 3066008 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

from the numbers looking at this thread: many of you may be new to ZH..welcome. be aware we have TROLLS here such as AnAnony who try to disrupt the thread..just ignore his posts..we long timers here do.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 08:25 | 3066018 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous, quasi-intellectual hobbo, said:

Hey, better to discuss evil and good, order and disorder rather than 'americanism'.

Hey, better to get back to work on the laundry rather than being fired from your job again.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:20 | 3065310 newengland
newengland's picture

Well said Cloud9.5.

There are  dead children in Newtown tonight who need to be home with their mother and father, and the mother and father needs them home NOW.

Making a 'crime scene' of dead children and the shooter aged only 20 who killed himself only serves bureaucrats, and venal politicians.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:53 | 3065217 Monedas
Monedas's picture

CNN says the principal was busy getting the children ready for their "Winter Concert" .... if that doesn't say it all .... what does !  Don't ship your kids off to these Godless socialist public schools !  

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:03 | 3065244 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

The fact that two Fundamentalist Christians +1 you for their home-schooling /fail at education depresses me.

Or, two highly cynical ZH readers +1 you for being the arch-master of sarcasm. It's hard to tell: but in this thread, I'm afraid my money is on the drooling fucktards vote, sorry.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:57 | 3065410 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

"Drooling fucktard" is the safer bet statistically.  The dumbest are almost always the noisiest, too.  Remember school?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 22:13 | 3065451 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yes, I do. Only at the five year re-union did I discover that my nick-name with the younger years was "Angel", because I'd stop all bullying, fight anyone wanting to bully and cover everyone's "illegal" small digressions with ease, including my own year. I attribute this to loads of ganja, of course. At the time, it was merely "what I was, and what I did". Oh, and make a load of $ dealing and wheeling and making sure everyone was happily provided for.

Kinda the opposite of modern politics, sadly. That's not to say I was perfect: I regret smashing that adult's cheek-bone in, his eye-socket and breaking his knee for raping a female friend of mine, but not really.


Let's just say: "We recruited you because you showed an enhanced ethical code coupled with an impressive ability to express that in physical terms, without the squeemish morality that stops you at gross bodily harm or death".


As we say: "If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there."[enjoy]

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:05 | 3065662 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

Wow you are so cool. Can I buy some weed man? Dork.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 08:02 | 3065960 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

If you missed it (and you did), it was a sarcastic reference to the suggestion earlier that if everyone in the school had been armed, the tragedy would have been avoided. Unless you think that Grosse Point Blank is an accurate portrayl of myself. (Hint: the title is a double meaning joke in context of this thread).


I'll break it down for you, given the lack of sophistication in this thread:

1) Grosse Point Blank - the film is about a contract killer (ex-CIA) who goes back to his school reunion and falls in love. The title is also a mocking pun of the "herp derp, let's arm everyone in an elementary school" brigade. If you watch the film you'll notice a nice part where he refuses to smoke weed with an ex-bully ("there is no us") then digs out a stale joint from his locker, and snaps it. i.e. He smoked weed at school, but has long since given it up. Obviously, you need to have seen the film to get that joke, and my reference to it.

2) Song is "Mirror in the bathroom", lyrics include "kill as you wish but make no sense, which gets me into mental illness". Think about that, and what it's saying [hint: American society & how it produces totally broken minds]

3) John Cusack kills the other hitman, and is discovered: his statement is: "It's not me". Might want to take the above story with a pinch of salt then.


I'd recommend the film, btw.


Oh, and this was an elementary school, and the victims were largely under 14. A lot of people forgetting that in their ideological fervour.



~This thread has shown some truly shocking herd thinking, and mass junking. Baaa, muppets.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 20:58 | 3065227 Monedas
Monedas's picture

This tragedy hurts the families even more because "Tax Genocide" has limited the size of families !  

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:04 | 3065247 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

and why is this news again?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:49 | 3065395 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Well, you see, dispite the ongoing carnage in the US, this happens to stand out.  And since a growing number of people are waking up to the positive, higher vibrations of love, especially at this turn of ages, a dramatic decrease of vibration, fear, anger, suits the PTB in their endeavor to maintain their self proclaimed deed on the planet.


So, get ready for the "they'll take your guns away" and "we're all in danger" memes this weekend.  If it works, you'll be a complete knuckle head by Monday if you weren't already.


Thats why.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:08 | 3065261 rustymason
rustymason's picture

If you think this slaughter is bad, look at what happens when a leftest government disarms its population. Of course, you won't see honest coverage of that 10-million-man-mass-murder, either.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:09 | 3065268 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

                                                Date of
Perpetrator                       # Murdered    Gun-Ctrl  Source
Gov.        Date     Target       (Estimated)   Law     Document
~~~~~~~~    ~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~    ~~~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
Ottoman     1915-17  Armenians    1-1.5 Mil.    1866    Art. 166,
Turky                                                                         Penal Code

Soviet      1929-53  Anti-Comm.   20 Million    1929    Art. 128,
Union                Anti-Stal.                                      Penal Code

Nazi        1933-45  Jews,        13 Million    1928    Law on Fire-
Germany              Anti-Nazis,                        arms & Ammun.
& occupied           Gypsies                              April 12,
Europe                                                             Weapons Law,
                                                                           March 18

China       1948-52  Anti-        20 Million    1935    Arts. 186 & 7
                     Communists                                          Penal Code.
                                                                           1966-   Pro-Reform
                                                                           1976    Group

Guatemala   1960-81  Mayan        100,000       1871    Decree #36
                     Indians                                               1964    Decree #283

Uganda      1971-79  Christians,  300,000       1955    Firearms Ord.
                     Pol. Rivals                                         1970    Firearms Act

Cambodia    1975-79  Educated     1 Million     1956    Arts. 322-328,
                     Persons                                                      Penal Code

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:18 | 3065305 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

2017-2029 Former United States / Constitutionalists, anti-government independents/

Genocide (aprox): 250,000,000 from direct arrest, incarceration, or FEMA camp placements

DOW: 25,000-95,000

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 22:00 | 3065416 Sambo
Sambo's picture

You missed out the genocide carried out in Tibet by the Chinese communists.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:24 | 3065687 bilejones
bilejones's picture

And that carried out by the US in Iraq.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:38 | 3065624 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Beautiful horrific post, the real truth of disarmed populations genocide, mass murder and horrendous dictatorship, thank you FSB

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:21 | 3065681 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Churchill deliberately starved 4 million Indians during World War II

Madhusree Mukerjee’s book is not a denunciation of the British rule of India, but a meticulous chronicling of the role of the British Raj in furthering a famine in Bengal, and suppressing the fact that this deliberate holocaust took 4 million lives.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:12 | 3065286 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



So much is just going so wrong.  

This SHIT brings me to tears.  My child is in this age group, has already been in a lock-down situation for a shooting incident (at another school in the district).  She is 1200 miles away during school months so I can't wrap her in my arms tonight

It'd be really something to be able to give those parents reason to know it will be alright.

It would really be something.


On another note.

Hey MSM, cut the crap.  Its not the fucking guns already!  DO your job, quit treating this as some Human Interest Story about some kid who killed!  


And no, I won't do you homework for you, but I'll give you a hint where to begin on the why: the people who OWN you!

Yes, them.  Start there.  Do Your Fucking Job!



Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:09 | 3065572 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well done

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:30 | 3065588 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Of interest to your rant on the MSM doing their job...their ACTUAL job of finding out how this happened.

I posted this further up thread...I believe its part of "the story" that is being overlooked...the shooter was granted access to the school or slipped in behind someone else when the door was opned for someone else...either way...the door has a camera on it which is monitored from the office...looks like he was allowed in and went straight to the office to start his killing spree.

(Principal) Hochsprung recently installed a new security system to ensure student safety.

In a letter this fall to parents, Hochsprung said that every visitor would be required to ring the doorbell at the front entrance after the doors locked at 9:30 a.m.

A staff member would use a visual monitoring system to determine entry.

Parents and visitors then had to report directly to the main office and sign in. Parents would also be asked for photo identification if the staff didn't recognize them.

In a letter addressed to "Members of our Sandy Hook Family," she asked parents to be patient with the school district's new system in all elementary schools.

"Please understand that with nearly 700 students and over 1,000 parents representing 500 SHS families, most parents will be asked to show identification," Hochsprung wrote.

Hochsprung said glitches would be inevitable, and parents might have to wait to be buzzed inside the school because office staff is often busy on the phone, in the copy room or handling student concerns.

"Though they will work diligently to help you into the building as quickly as possible, there may be a short delay until someone can view you on the handset and allow you to come in electronically," Hochsprung said.

How do we stop the violence?

"We continue to encourage and value your presence in our classrooms and are counting on your cooperation with the implementation of this safety initiative," she wrote.

On her principal's page of the school website, Hochsprung emphasizes the school's "rich history of establishing high expectations and sustaining strong academic performance."

"Our Responsive Classroom approach focuses on the benefits of a climate of kindness and respect where all community members feel accepted, important, and secure," Hochsprung wrote.

On Friday, the district's webpage featured a gallery of school photos with the caption "Safe School Climate."

Words cannot convey my sadness or the nations sadness over this. But often times words (even used to give sense of security or well being, real or imagined) mean nothing.

They are just words afterall without the actual deed and follow through being there, they really do mean nothing but intent.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:41 | 3065627 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture





So, another one gets through, slips through, gets "granted access".

My rant on MSM stems from their treatment of raw material deemed unfit for the recipe of its end-product.  Being in a global economic depression as we are: MSM ratings are geared more toward the SOMA affect than the truth.

Their end product.

The World is a Business Mr. Beale!!


Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:28 | 3065688 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"So, another one gets through, slips through, gets "granted access"."

Just thought you might want to know, I share your love of the innocents in this entire affair..."the truth" is the last thing the MSM has on it's mind IMHO.

Your comment touched me as a parent...on the things we have to do sometimes...distance, time, to get where we want (have) to be when needed...been there, down sized...but just me, no judgement.

Take care.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:38 | 3065703 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

you too

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:13 | 3065294 Odin
Odin's picture

Either we abolish all weapons, and somehow stop the production of any new ones, or we allow the mentally stable and persons of legitimate authority to arm themselves (i.e. teachers). Criminals and psychopaths seem to routinely acquire weapons in countries where guns are banned. When guns were banned in the UK following a tragic massacre (see Dunblane), gun violence more than doubled in the following six years because it created a much larger black market... Until we either eliminate ALL guns, or eliminate ALL psychopaths, law abiding citizens need to be able to protect themselves and protect the innocent around them... especially when those in the line of fire are children.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:50 | 3065391 newengland
newengland's picture

Government is the biggest killer, and wants to disarm honest citizens while letting loose its hateful agenda, eg the Dunblane massacre of children whereby Lord Cullen put a 100 year ban on publication of the full facts because the shooter who murdered the school children got his gun license approved (against police advice) from a political friend who shared his interest in paedophilia, and killing the children removed evidence of a paedophile ring linked to high ranking Scottish politicians including the former Prime Mentalist Gordon Brown, and Peter Mandelson. Add Ken Clarke and Leon Brittan of the Tories to that ring of fire.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 22:18 | 3065468 Nimby
Nimby's picture

Nothing to do with heroin then, huh?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:17 | 3065302 BrainDead
BrainDead's picture



It's getting really tiresome.  über-rich and powerful seek to dispel consequence of their greed.  Bloomberg - what a sad pathetic joke of a man. Does anybody believe for a minute his cares extend beyond himself?

Authoritarianism 101 - Problem - Reaction – Solution – (a.k.a. Hegel's  "thesis, antithesis, synthesis") 

  1. Choose the desired solution/outcome (i.e., gun control),
  2. Draft implementation plan (i.e., legislation)
  3. Prepare to focus attention at solution
    •  mass media script
    •  ready "experts" and public "authorities"
    •  soften the targets
  4. Instigate or capitalize tragic events
    •  false flag
    • entrapment/sting operation
    • inhibit systemic safe guards
    • exploit impaired individuals
    • bide time for natural outbreak
    • coerce a response
  5. Set blame
    • Inflame passions exclusively at target.(e.g., gun ownership)
    • Shun facts to protect the guilty (e.g., profitable psychotropic pharmaceutical drugs create murderers).
  6. Offer pre-planned solution (e.g., exchange liberty for safety.
  7. Implement solution.(e.g., police state)
  8. Repeat.




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