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Newtown Shooter Had Asperger Syndrome, And Some US Gun Facts
Update: The focus now shifts to the mother, the first casualty of her son's murderous rampage, who was a "big, big gun fan" as the NYT explains, and who went target shooting with her children, one of whom had Asperger's.
From the NYT:
She was “a big, big gun fan” who went target shooting with her children, according to friends. She enjoyed craft beers, jazz and landscaping. She was generous to strangers, but also high-strung, as if she were holding herself together.
Nancy Lanza was the first victim in a massacre carried out on Friday by her son Adam Lanza, 20, who shot her dead with a gun apparently drawn from her own collection, then drove her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 26 people, 20 of them small children, officials said.
At craft beer tastings on Tuesday evenings, he recalled, she liked to talk about her gun collection.
“She had several different guns,” he said. “I don’t know how many. She would go target shooting with her kids.”
Law enforcement officials said they believed that the guns were acquired lawfully and registered.
* * *
She was “a big, big gun fan,” he added on his Web site.
Read on here
* * *
As we reported last night, buried inside the NYT biopic of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza was arguably one of the most important missing pieces in the story, at least so far, which could provide clues into partially explaining yesterday's tragic loss of young life, namely that the 20 year old man suffered from Asperger Syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism (two conditions which are being merged in the upcoming update of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-5) manual of mental disorders), which has been traditionally associated with social communication difficulties, including flat affect, and one which in some clinical studies has been shown to have a causal link to violence. In other words, in addition to the surge in the debate over national gun control and access limitations (ignoring that the perpetrator of the biggest school mass murder in US history - the Bath School disaster - used openly purchased dynamite and no guns, also ignoring that in the US there are roughly 300 million firearms), perhaps there should also be a broad discussion as to the risks of social misadoption of children with autism and other social and behavioral disorders.
He was an honors student who lived in a prosperous neighborhood with his mother, a well-liked woman who enjoyed hosting dice games and decorating the house for the holidays.
Now Adam Lanza is suspected of killing his mother and then gunning down more than two dozen people, 20 of them children, at a Connecticut grade school before taking his own life.
The 20-year-old may have suffered from a personality disorder, law enforcement officials said.
The New York Times reported Saturday morning that several people told the newspaper that Lanza had Asperger’s syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism.
The Times reported Lanza did not have a Facebook page and did not pose for a high school yearbook picture.
He was described as socially awkward and was known in high school as “intelligent, but nervous and fidgety, spitting his words out, as if having to speak up were painful.”
Investigators were trying to learn as much as possible about Lanza and questioned his older brother, who is not believed to have any involvement in the rampage.
Lanza killed his mother at their home before driving her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School and — armed with at least two handguns — carried out the massacre, officials said.
A third weapon, a .223-caliber rifle, was found in the car, and more guns were found inside the school.
So far, authorities have not spoken publicly of any possible motive. Witnesses said the shooter didn’t utter a word.
Catherine Urso, who was attending a vigil Friday evening in Newtown, Conn., said her college-age son knew the killer and remembered him for his alternative style.
“He just said he was very thin, very remote and was one of the goths,” she said.
* * *
Adam Lanza’s older brother, 24-year-old Ryan Lanza of Hoboken, N.J., was being questioned, a law enforcement official said. He told authorities that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record about the unfolding investigation.
The official did not elaborate, and it was unclear exactly what type of disorder he might have had.
Ryan Lanza had been extremely cooperative and was not under arrest or in custody, but investigators were still searching his computers and phone records. Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010.
* * *
Adam Lanza attended Newtown High School, and several local news clippings from recent years mention his name among the school’s honor roll students.
And while much needed insight into the shooter's abnormal mental state is critical before passing judgment, the reality is that Lanza - who may well have been mentally disturbed - should certainly not have had access to the arsenal of weapons he ultimately used in perpetrating yesterday's tragedy. The much debated question, of course, that is already emerging is whose responsibility is it to limit such access: that of the individual, that of the closest family members, or that of the state, and if it is the latter, then the question becomes one of practical enforceability in a country where the second amendment is deeply engrained in the popular psychology, and where there are nearly as many guns as people.
Some more facts and figures - without opinions - on US weapons from justfacts.com
Introductory Notes
This research is based upon the most recent available data in 2010. Facts from earlier years are cited based upon availability and relevance, not to slant results by singling out specific years that are different from others. Likewise, data associated with the effects of gun control laws in various geographical areas represent random, demographically diverse places in which such data is available.
Many aspects of the gun control issue are best measured and sometimes can only be measured through surveys,[1] but the accuracy of such surveys depends upon respondents providing truthful answers to questions that are sometimes controversial and potentially incriminating.[2] Thus, Just Facts uses such data critically, citing the best-designed surveys we find, detailing their inner workings in our footnotes, and using the most cautious plausible interpretations of the results.
Particularly, when statistics are involved, the determination of what constitutes a credible fact (and what does not) can contain elements of personal subjectivity. It is our mission to minimize subjective information and to provide highly factual content. Therefore, we are taking the additional step of providing readers with four examples to illustrate the type of material that was excluded because it did not meet Just Facts' Standards of Credibility.
General Facts
Firearms are generally classified into three broad types: (1) handguns, (2) rifles, and (3) shotguns.[3] Rifles and shotguns are both considered "long guns."
A semi-automatic firearm fires one bullet each time the trigger is pulled and automatically loads another bullet for the next pull of the trigger. A fully automatic firearm (sometimes called a "machine gun") fires multiple bullets with the single pull of the trigger.[4]
Ownership
As of 2009, the United States has a population of 307 million people.[5]
Based on production data from firearm manufacturers,[6] there are roughly 300 million firearms owned by civilians in the United States as of 2010. Of these, about 100 million are handguns.[7]
Based upon surveys, the following are estimates of private firearm ownership in the U.S. as of 2010:
| Households With a Gun | Adults Owning a Gun | Adults Owning a Handgun | |
| Percentage | 40-45% | 30-34% | 17-19% |
| Number | 47-53 million | 70-80 million | 40-45 million |
A 2005 nationwide Gallup poll of 1,012 adults found the following levels of firearm ownership:
| Category |
Percentage Owning a Firearm |
| Households | 42% |
| Individuals | 30% |
| Male | 47% |
| Female | 13% |
| White | 33% |
| Nonwhite | 18% |
| Republican | 41% |
| Independent | 27% |
| Democrat | 23% |
In the same poll, gun owners stated they own firearms for the following reasons:
| Protection Against Crime | 67% |
| Target Shooting | 66% |
| Hunting | 41% |
Crime and Self-Defense
Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.[11]
A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[12]
Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders.[13] [14] [15] Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.[16]
Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]
A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]
A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]
A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]
• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]
Click here to see why the following commonly cited statistic does not meet Just Facts' Standards of Credibility: "In homes with guns, the homicide of a household member is almost 3 times more likely to occur than in homes without guns."
Vulnerability to Violent Crime
At the current homicide rate, roughly one in every 240 Americans will be murdered.[23]
A U.S. Justice Department study based on crime data from 1974-1985 found:
• 42% of Americans will be the victim of a completed violent crime (assault, robbery, rape) in the course of their lives
• 83% of Americans will be the victim of an attempted or completed violent crime
• 52% of Americans will be the victim of an attempted or completed violent crime more than once[24]
A 1997 survey of more than 18,000 prison inmates found that among those serving time for a violent crime, "30% of State offenders and 35% of Federal offenders carried a firearm when committing the crime."[25]
Right-to-Carry Laws
Right-to-carry laws permit individuals who meet certain "minimally restrictive" criteria (such as completion of a background check and gun safety course) to carry concealed firearms in most public places.[95] Concealed carry holders must also meet the minimum federal requirements for gun ownership as detailed above.
Each state has its own laws regarding right-to-carry and generally falls into one of three main categories:
1) "shall-issue" states, where concealed carry permits are issued to all qualified applicants
2) "may-issue" states, where applicants must often present a reason for carrying a firearm to an issuing authority, who then decides based on his or her discretion whether the applicant will receive a permit
3) "no-issue" states, where concealed carry is generally forbidden
As of January 2012:
40 states are shall-issue:
| Alaska | Arizona | Arkansas | Colorado |
| Florida | Georgia | Idaho | Indiana |
| Iowa | Kansas | Kentucky | Louisiana |
| Maine | Michigan | Minnesota | Mississippi |
| Missouri | Montana | Nebraska | Nevada |
| New Hampshire | New Mexico | North Carolina | North Dakota |
| Ohio | Oklahoma | Oregon | Pennsylvania |
| Rhode Island | South Carolina | South Dakota | Tennessee |
| Texas | Utah | Vermont | Virginia |
| Washington | West Virginia | Wisconsin | Wyoming |
9 states are may-issue:
| Alabama | California | Connecticut | Delaware |
| Hawaii | Maryland | Massachusetts | New Jersey |
| New York |
Accidents
In 2007, there were 613 fatal firearm accidents in the United States, constituting 0.5% of 123,706 fatal accidents that year.[120]
Fatal firearm accidents in 2007 by age groups:
| Age Group | Fatal Firearm Accidents | |
| Raw number | Portion of fatal accidents
from all causes |
|
| <1 yrs | 1 | 0.1% |
| 1-4 yrs | 18 | 1.1% |
| 5-9 yrs | 20 | 2.1% |
| 10-14 yrs | 26 | 2.1% |
| 15-24 yrs | 155 | 1.0% |
| 25-34 yrs | 94 | 0.6% |
| 35-44 yrs | 91 | 0.5% |
| 45-54 yrs | 82 | 0.4% |
| 55-64 yrs | 57 | 0.5% |
| 65+ yrs | 69 | 0.2% |
Non-Fatal
In 2007, there were roughly 15,698 emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents,[123] constituting 0.05% of 27.7 million emergency room visits for non-fatal accidents that year.[124]
These emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents resulted in 5,045 hospitalizations,[125] constituting 0.4% of 1.4 million non-fatal accident hospitalizations that year.[126]
Criminal Justice System
Nationwide in 2008, law enforcement agencies reported that 55% of aggravated assaults, 27% of robberies, 40% of rapes, and 64% of murders that were reported to police resulted in an alleged offender being arrested and turned over for prosecution.[26] [27]
Currently, for every 12 aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders committed in the United States, approximately one person is sentenced to prison for committing such a crime.[28] [29] [30]
A 2002 U.S. Justice Department study of 272,111 felons released from state prisons in 1994 found that within three years of their release:
• at least 67.5% had been arrested for committing a new offense
• at least 21.6% had been arrested for committing a new violent offense
• these former inmates had been charged with committing at least 2,871 new homicides, 2,444 new rapes, 3,151 other new sexual assaults, 2,362 new kidnappings, 21,245 new robberies, 54,604 new assaults, and 13,854 other new violent crimes[31]
Of 1,662 murders committed in New York City during 2003-2005, more than 90% were committed by people with criminal records.[32]
Washington, DC
In 1976, the Washington, D.C. City Council passed a law generally prohibiting residents from possessing handguns and requiring that all firearms in private homes be (1) kept unloaded and (2) rendered temporally inoperable via disassembly or installation of a trigger lock. The law became operative on Sept. 24, 1976.[33] [34]
On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 ruling, struck down this law as unconstitutional.[35]
During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.[37]
Britain
In 1920, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess any firearm except a shotgun. To obtain this certificate, the applicant had to pay a fee, and the chief of police had to be "satisfied" that the applicant had "good reason for requiring such a certificate" and did not pose a "danger to the public safety or to the peace." The certificate had to specify the types and quantities of firearms and ammunition that the applicant could purchase and keep.[38]
In 1968, Britain made the 1920 law stricter by requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess a shotgun. This law also required that firearm certificates specify the identification numbers ("if known") of all firearms and shotguns owned by the applicant.[39]
In 1997, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to surrender almost all privately owned handguns to the police. More than 162,000 handguns and 1.5 million pounds of ammunition were "compulsorily surrendered" by February 1998. Using "records of firearms held on firearms certificates," police accounted for all but fewer than eight of all legally owned handguns in England, Scotland, and Wales.[40]
† Homicide data is published according to the years in which the police initially reported the offenses as homicides, which are not always the same years in which the incidents took place.
‡ Large anomalies unrelated to guns:
2000: 58 Chinese people suffocated to death in a shipping container en route to the UK
2002: 172 homicides reported when Dr. Harold Shipman was exposed for killing his patients
2003: 20 cockle pickers drowned resulting in manslaughter charges
2005: 52 people were killed in the July 7th London subway/bus bombings
Not counting the above-listed anomalies, the homicide rate in England and Wales has averaged 52% higher since the outset of the 1968 gun control law and 15% higher since the outset of the 1997 handgun ban.[42]
Chicago
In 1982, the city of Chicago instituted a ban on handguns. This ban barred civilians from possessing handguns except for those registered with the city government prior to enactment of the law. The law also specified that such handguns had to be re-registered every two years or owners would forfeit their right to possess them. In 1994, the law was amended to require annual re-registration.[43] [44] [45]
In the wake of Chicago's handgun ban, at least five suburbs surrounding Chicago instituted similar handgun bans. When the Supreme Court overturned the District of Columbia's handgun ban in June 2008, at least four of these suburbs repealed their bans.[46] [47] [48] [49] [50]
In June 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled (5-4) that Chicago's ban is unconstitutional.[51]
Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.[53]
Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns has averaged about 40% higher than it was before the law took effect.[55]
In 2005, 96% of the firearm murder victims in Chicago were killed with handguns.[56]
* * *
Much more here
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Did the shooter die with a rifle shot to the back of his head by any chance, and full magazines for both pistols?
If armed parents would have caught him (around here) he would have died from multiple gunshot wounds and they would have taken turns dragging his lifeless corpse behind their cars down Main Street until there was nothing left but the rope.
We have a very efite and nuanced approach to justice here ;-)
Whoa! And I had this silly idea all Floridians were feeble elderly people who could barely hold a gun let alone shoot it. I have miss judged your state. You may now trash Cali in retribution. God knows where you'd find ammo for that.
Miffed:-)
lol...the elderly around here (not the East Coast of Fla) don't become elderly by being passive ;-)
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.
Pardon me, but I think your rope is frayed...
When catapults are outlawed only outlaws will have catapults
Yeah, I got that, hence the rope reference.
There are a lot of bad guys with guns. This will not ever change.
More good guys need guns. This needs to change.
If you are a good guy do us all a favor and go buy a gun and learn how to safely use and store it.
Innocent people may depend on you one day.
Gun Grabbers can go fuck themselves.
What if you're a bad guy that thinks he's a good guy? Or a bad (or good) guy that's just a bit tetched in the head?
Do you think a psychiatric evaluation should be required for anyone that wants a gun? If so, how extensive should it be? If one fails, two out of three?
I know a few people that possess firearms that are a bit strange. What should I do about that?
What if you are the one they think is strange?
joel salatin redux : “The stronger a culture, the less it fears the radical fringe. The more paranoid and precarious a culture, the less tolerance it offers.”
Yeah, what if?
I get 5 junks and all I did was ask questions (with not one answer). Apparently there are some dumb fucks that don't like certain questions asked. This is not surprising.
Effective decisions can only be made by those who know of and are involved in a specific situation. Your question was far too broad which made it impossible to answer with anything more than "gee, somebody's got to do something," which is exactly the kind of uniformed and fearful reaction which gun grabbers want to foster.
Its quite amazing to see how many statistical facts you guys can put together to show how unrelated those 26 killed are to guns. As if everyone is waiting for an alternate arguments to explain what happened.
Sometimes things are quite simple and needless to explain in greater detail - easy access to firearms will always yield the same result, as they put the attacker into a remote position from his victims.
Stabbing or choking people required physical proximity and will leave impulsive spree killlers with far less victims than trough other weapons.
Just to defend your dubious hobby of shooting guns and rifles in your basements, old quarry mines, gun clubs ..
Number of casualties of such sad incidents outnumber the lives saved by guns carried for self-protection purposes by the factor of.... ? place your stats here..
The largest mass murder in the states used gasoline.
true and now, thanks to easy fire-arm access mass murdering is much simpler... and more frequent !
It's not true, actually, but he is, after all, just trollin4sukrs.
Actually, if he is refering to automobile deaths, he is correct. Guess it depends on how loosely one uses the word murder and is it synonymous with homicide?
Sure, I'd be game to hear any definition for "mass murder" that's loose enough to include automobile accidents. Care to try?
I suggest that Phillip Morris and McDonalds may have "murdered" more people than gasoline. Although in all three cases, the "victims" have some responsibility for their own deaths.
Airplanes ?
No, the army was used by Lincoln when he ordered the mass murder of Americans. Contrary to the belief of many here, the army is historically the one to fear the most.
The airplanes "used" on 9/11 were just a distraction. Explosives were used to kill people.
I thought the South started the shooting war by attacking Fort Sumter?
Of course you did! That's what you were programed to think by the Yankee school system.
Fort Sumter was no longer U.S. territory in 1961. Furthermore the only fatality was a mule. So Lincoln proceeded to make war on the CSA causing the deaths of about a million Americans for the death of a mule?
^
Thinks bad guys will give up crime and stay home and watch TV in a gun free utopia.
Illegal guns will magically vanish in thin air and there will be no victims of crime.
Mommy Sam will keep defenseless Americans safe from harm.
Probably enjoys Krugman's articles in the NY Times.
Guess it takes all kinds...
Would it have been less tragic if he just used swords?
Anyone know the statistics of illegal guns in USA? I would bet that illegal guns are used in crimes much more than legal guns.
Unless it is a full automatic or a sawed off barrel there is no such thing as a "illegal" gun.. Stolen maybe.. but that is another story. Still can get a permit to have full auto as well.
Actually, it could be illegal for a myriad of other reasons, the most notable being it wasn't properly registered and is required to be registered (e.g. bubba making his own gun).
Do you know anyone that has tried to get a full auto license?
Like getting a camel through the eye of the needle. Possible, but not really worth the effort.
all the mass killing perpetrators appear to have no history of violence ... one day they just snap, pick up assault rifle with massive ammos, bullet proof vests, and go on a rampage. That just seem unlikely ... I wonder if there are any virus or bacteria that can cause these sudden behaviour change in human similar to zombie bacterial infection that afflict insects to mice and who knows what?
Most of them were known to authorities; the lack of history could be due to the records being sealed for anything they did as juveniles.
At least with Columbine, it certainly wasn't a sudden snap; they spent time planning and testing pipe bombs, etc.
As has been mentioned, it is most likely that the killers are on or in withdrawal from prescription meds.
So we need a law banning or restricting pipe bombs to people who are in withdrawl from prescription meds.
Excellent!
Google toxoplasma gondii.
The fucking cat made me do it............
“Gun-free zones are simply killing fields for mass murderers.” – Ted Nugen
Sec. 53a-217b Possession of A Weapon on School Grounds: Class D Felony.
(a) A person is guilty of possession of a weapon on school grounds when, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he possesses a firearm or deadly weapon, as defined in section 53a-3, (1) in or on the real property comprising a public or private elementary or secondary school or (2) at a school-sponsored activity as defined in subsection (h) of section 10-233a.
Source: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/connecticut.pdf
To all the fucking MORONS advocating more gun regulation: Go fuck yourself. Seriously, ask yourself this: Did this gun regulation, did this law stop this nutjob?
And one more thing: The places I feel the least safe at are schools, post offices and churches. I taught HS for a year, it was not reassuring to know that if some nut like this came into the school that my gun was unloaded, cased, locked and in a locked vehicle because I'm law abiding.
Politicians create more problems.
Also, in 2009 there were 37,000 suicides and overdoses (often overdoses should be classified as suicides) were up 128 percent. Likely Ben Bernanke caused 68,000 suicides in 2009 alone. Did any politician other than Ron Paul call to end the Fed? Politicians are dickheads. Mayor Bloomberg lands his helicopter on a helipad in NYC that a judge has banned traffic on in the weekends. Think that dickhead doesn't carry a gun or wouldn't carry a gun where he wasn't supposed to. Think again. Mayor Dickhead doesn't abide by the laws, he probably drinks 32 ounce sodas too.
Quoting someone mentally deficient does not help your point. Calling someone a nut job allows someone else to call you one. Makes you suspect like your subject.
Can't we all get along?
Go fuck yourself you moron. Politically correct assclowns like you don't call it like it is, as a result we have all sorts of fucked up shit in our world.
To elaborate: I have a friend whose kid has Aspegers. He's not a nut job. A nut job is someone who takes the lives of innocent children. Calling a nut job a nut job doesn't discredit anyone.
The principal, and any vice principals, shall be required to carry firearms to protect our children in their buildings and on their property, regardless of their political affiliation or beliefs.
If they can't do their job, find another principal.
I realize the facts coming out on this have varied but it has been reported that the principal of the school (RIP) buzzed the kid in to the school while reportedly wearing black cammo gear and boots? I understand she recognized him but WTF?
Better include this in the next training sessions on security.
Not to worry, they're setting up a federal, debt/stimulus funded, six million dollar, Blue Ribbon panel of "experts" that will come forth with the novel advice of...drum roll please...
Don't allow "teenage staffers" to buzz people in wearing body armor.
"Shitting your pants for 2 weeks keeps you from getting drafted" Ted Nugent
Per ABC news:
-While the President has remained relatively quiet on the issue of gun control during his first term, he said it is time “to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this. Regardless of the politics.”
Really? Stop “tragedies“?
Reduce the “gun” violence?
How, by ignoring the MAJOR causes?
1. End US invasions, occupations, and assassinations abroad as well as end support for repressive sheikhdoms, tyrants, and apartheid states.. (Or are we only concerned about sensationalized domestic violence?)
2. End Prohibition II, the fake “war on drugs” and the ancillary mass imprisonment system which only promotes criminal gangs and criminal networking.
3. End trade, border, and immigration policies which unnecessarily produce a criminal underworld that further feeds the criminal-generating prison industry.
4. Connecticut already has some of the toughest gun laws in the US. Exactly what new gun restrictions short of complete prohibition would have prevented the Newtown slayings with a legal gun? Apparently a supposedly responsible teacher failed to secure access to her legal guns by a known disturbed medicated family member.
Does legal gun ownership have any deterrent effect on home invasions and burglaries?
At what point might clamping down on legal gun owners be self-defeating, bureaucratically onerous, and only make criminals using illegal guns more brazen?
more irresponsible "journalism"
It now is reported that Nancy Lanza, the mother, was NOT employed in any capacity by the school system.
Some day, perhaps, we will learn what she did, and how she and Adam afforded to live in a (reportedly) $500,000 home in a very well-to-do suburban town.
She got divorced.
Chuh-Ching!
Yeah, wasn't it already mentioned that she was recieving $10,000 per month alimony? $120K per year is decent money, even if you are looking after a dependant.
So the state, by virtue of imposing outrageous alimony payments, afforded her the "lifestyle" for her to purchase the guns that her mentally defective son "borrowed" to kill babies with.
Now we're getting somewhere.
I thought he killed his mother and took the guns.
isn't alimony awarded based on the income of the payer?
in other words, isn't the husband - who works for GE Finances, and was an adjunct professor at Northeastern/Boston - paying alimony based on his income, which obviously is substantial, and the fact that his ex was a full-time caregiver who home schooled his son?
you dudes should know this? or are you just purposefully ignoring the obvious for cheap shots?
the man fathered a son who needed a home and a caretaker - it's his responsibility, his son too.
What was the most deadly school mass murder in the US?
Trick question. It was in Bath Michigan in 1927 and it was accomplished with 3 bombs (something like 50 people and ~36 elementary school kids were killed and many more wounded). BUT, if you listen to the news and you will hear that this was the 2nd most deadly school SHOOTING, and while technically they are correct, the news channels are obscuring the reality for their own biases.
So what do we know. 1. These incidents are nothing new and are not increasing in frequency with any statistical significance (in fact they are probably decreasing in frequency). 2. If someone wants to kill a lot of people, there are many ways to do it besides a firearm. 3. Connecticut has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the country. 4. The only cases where mass murders have either been avoided or where the casualty toll has been significantly lessened, was where there was a CCW holder with a gun present or in very close proximity (in most of the recent mass shooting incidents CCW holders were specifically prevented from carrying their firearms - Soft Target anyone?). As seen here the cops are just too far away to really do anything. 5. Most people don't have the ability or desire to think rationally and use anything beyond anecdotal evidence so we will probably have new gun laws that won't accomplish anything other than disarming law abiding citizens and potentially driving up the crime rate (see John Lott).
Good luck.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
It all about TRUTH
911 Truth
Oklahoma city
et al
He didn't have a Facebook page, missed the Yearbook shoot and was one of the goths.
Oh, I see. This explains everything.
I note that this kid was apparently trained to handle firearms correctly since Mom took him and his brother target shooting on weekends.
BTW, Mom was apparently not a teacher. Where the MSM get the bullshit they come up with, who knows.
"I note that this kid was apparently trained to handle firearms correctly since Mom took him and his brother target shooting on weekends."
As a liscensed gun owner I'm all for teaching kids to target shoot. I do keep mine locked and the ammo in a seperate lock box. Not that I can't get to my handgun in time to protect my family.
That said: If my kid had issues like this I don't think I'd have a gun in the house.
PS William +1 the up thingy ain't upping you.
I grew up around "guns" as well.
The sad truth is there is no normal when it comes to firearm common sense.
Just about a week ago some idiot accidentally shot and killed his own son while loading his car. I don't know how the fuck that can happen. When I learned about loaded weapons I was taught to treat them with the caution applicable to a live hand grenade.
Thus, the fact that a kid with mental health issues is trained at a shooting range becomes less surprising.
Funny thing, I was saying this morning that 26 fatal hits is some marksmanship. I thought it might have been video gaming that provided the necessary training.
Also, I just read a Reuters piece about Lanza. The NYT quotes someone saying he was a goth. Reuters quotes someone else saying he was a loner type who wore khaki pants, button down shirts and pocket protectors. See how ridiculous this is getting?
I also have a minor observation regarding the Second Amendment and liberty. I am not advocating anything by this observation.
Waziristan has always been known to be a hives nest of firearms. The Peshawar market was one of the biggest firearm bazaars in the world.
Now, all those Waziri warlords are fighting against drone warfare. Wonder how those light arms are doing against death from above.
Does anyone believe in this day and age civilian firearms are really going to protect them from their government if it ever came to that? Are surface to air missiles protected by the Second Amendment? Are they even effective against drones? Are drones covered by the second amendment?
It would appear that the peace of mind of owning a "gun" is somewhat illusory when it comes to repelling Big Bad Drone Brother.
Now I'm worried. Will they be staking out Brooks Brothers to arrest everyone who buys button-down shirts and khakis? Is this our government's plan to exterminate tech entrepeneurs?
Don't worry, they won't stake out Brooks Brothers. If they did, they would be chasing Banksters,
"Does anyone believe in this day and age civilian firearms are really going to protect them from their government if it ever came to that? Are surface to air missiles protected by the Second Amendment? Are they even effective against drones? Are drones covered by the second amendment?"
Not from the army, but there is a whole spectrum of options that disappear for the government. Or rogue factions of government (wink, wink).
The sad truth is there is no normal when it comes to firearm common sense.
I would have to disagree. Otherwise, there would be no firearms safety courses. But if you mean it's not intuitive, it has to be taught, then yes, you're correct.
Common sense, meaning how people behave in practice as opposed to what the textbook says.
I am not going to shoot at drones. My worry is gangs and home invasions and shooting small game to provide food.
I have seen a couple other unrelated news stories that brought up the fact that the (alleged) the perp did not have a social networking account. No doubt a future crime.............
Well, without a facebook, how would we know the regularity of his bowel movements?
We must all conform. Otherwise, how will we know who is different?
Come on WB7, you're smarter than this. The town is a small town (pop 27K) with a small rural police force. It is, how should I say, unlikely the force has ever had to deal with a massacre, much less walk up to the international podium and face the glare of a thousand bright lights. The 'fog of war" might apply here, so the fact that lots of erroneous information spilt from this untested police force should not be unexpected. Similarly, MSM sources, especially when they feel compelled to scramble for information and may not have their most experienced reporters on site at the outset, can be expected to report first, question later.
The main result of such a coalescing of inexperience with shock is that it feeds the likes of the paranoid delusional crowd who---as can be seen from the various Zerohedge threads---are already "proving" that this horror was some sort of "false flag, MK Ultra2012" program complete with Manchurian Candidates, multiple shooters, grassy knolls, etc. Yes, ZH has plenty of its own batshit crazies.
Heaven forbid it was just the random and senseless act of someone with bad brain physiology! That would just be too random and shatter the worldview of those who demand somebody be in control, even if it is a malevolent force. That "shit happens" is simply too uncomfortable for most people. They need bogeymen just as priests, deacons and imams need devils.
Let it breathe, and take a moment to feel for the victims and their families rather than condemn the bumbling actions of an inexperienced police force and the rating-seeking behavior of those who report on it.
Our constitutional repbulic has a Bill of Rights and, my understanding is, that our United States would never have come into existence except for same. The Bill of Rights is unabridgeable and ANY diminution of same is an abrogation of the constitution and ergo unconstitutional. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater
Make no mistake - this was an act of DOMESTIC TERRORISM that could have been prevented if we had the following:
A.) Stricter gun laws or a GUN BAN
B.) More armed police and law enforcement professionals providing security
C.) More welfare and entitlements to help disturbed individuals like the shooter
(If we had government-sponsored centers with video games and other fun activities for this young man and others like him that are currently unemployed or underemployed, he may have been kept busy doing something fun and engaging rather than resorting to violence)
LOL!
Sands8oo
You forgot preventive indefinite detention of all government designated "extremists" and those who may directly or indirectly support them.
lol!
Surgical removal of hands and fingers, replaced by prostheses which have a "cut off" switch that works off of a silicon chip implanted in the brain, sensing any aggressive thoughts or feelings.
Here in UK Tony Blair's administration enforced a gun ban after the Dunblane massacre.
We all had to hand in our guns and were paid the market value for them. I put in several handguns and rifles and got paid about six months later.
In USA, 300 million guns or so, say a low average of about 750 dollars each = $225,000,000,000.
Good luck with that!
No luck, just QE5.
Have you had any gun crime since the ban? (serious question BTW)
When the gun ban was ineffective, the passed a knife ban.
Gun crime up 89% in last 10 years.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html
The Canadians spent something close to 2 billion dollars in order to complete a long-gun registry, which they have since abandoned due to many obvious factors, noncompliance being amongst them.........
Change of political party in power. All parties will squander money, they just each have different pet projects they want to spend on, and the other parties all make ending the pet projects the number 1 priority if elected.
Same thing happened in Australia. The elites programming "loners." Why would the CIA research these types of things in the 1960s if they did not think programmed zombies would be "useful."
The USA probably has MORE guns now than 300 million. In the past 4 years under Mullah Mugabe, the gun checks 9done before purcahse) have been probably between 40 to 55 million! People in America have bought guns who probably never even dreamed of owning a gun.
Why? Probably because they don't trust the govt, they think things will fall apart in the near future and to protect themselves from criminals.
When the guns are confiscated by the police no payments are made.
The average value of the guns in America is likely a lot below $750/each. I'd guess more like $300. That's not to say many are not worth much more, but many guns are surplus eastern bloc weapons or other cheap junk.
trader dan gives it to you like it is http://www.traderdannorcini.blogspot.com/ scoll down to "putting things in to perspective"
and once again the mysterious second person fades into obscurity, when this story first broke, just like the Colorado dark knight rises shooting, the temple shooting and the Giffords shooting before that, the initial reports clearly stated that there was more than one person involved.
yet much like Kaiser Soze-
" and like that, poof, he was gone"
no motive, no record and no reason yet mentally ill and doubtless on some sort of medication. in all the senseless and randomness of these tragic events there does seem to be a discernible pattern developing does there not? the mentally ill are easily influenced, manipulated and controlled, there fears and paranoia's easily prayed upon and twisted. the synthetic poison medications numb the mind and cull the spirit thus creating chemical zombies.
I know, I worked with the mentally ill for 11 years and I saw the way they are treated by our medical system, not as humans but as animals to be drugged into submission, all for the endless profit of the companies who sell damnation in salvation's packaging. they don't call it the Thorazine shuffle for nothing, by the time the psychiatrist is done securing his or her kick backs from Pfizer the patient isn't even human anymore, just any empty shell, a shuffling brain dead ATM. it was disgusting, back then I couldn't believe people were treated that way here in America...
cold, numb and devoid of emotion until that horrible moment of realization at which point they turn the gun on themselves, or is it something else that causes them to take there own lives afterwords?
is there anybody who, deep down inside is still naive enough to believe that there aren't powers out there who will do anything, spill any blood, even that of children, to advance there agendas?
the devil is, as always, in the details and if one looks at the recent violence, there is defiantly a pattern and patterns are not random, not senseless, patterns are planned, controlled and always have a purpose.
still I wonder who is kaiser soza? who shows up on the scene and then disappears without a trace, who is always mentioned in the initial shock and excitement by media and eyewitnesses alike but then is whisked out of the headlines never to be heard from again. who did they have in the back of that SWAT van in Newtown, and why does he seem to always get a free pass?
You forgot OKC's John Doe #2
"who did they have in the back of that SWAT van in Newtown, and why does he seem to always get a free pass?"
Do the dancing Israelis of 9-11 come to mind? Mossad "by way of deception". With allies like them who needs enemies?
How about the use of a mask. All of a sudden everyone is JASON
or ANONYMOUS.
Masks cut both ways.
Where are the video tapes. Let them out in full.
I posted a while back this piece by Salon. You'll notice that the M.O. is similar: mentally ill "lone wolf" shooter kills a target, shadowy figures may-or-may-not-have-primed-her. Do a GREP on when I posted it; never say there's never warnings in the tea-leaves, ladies.
(You're also welcome to the Kaiser Soze meme ~ infection rate is high, which I like, merely for pride in truth having the same stickiness as lies; the weapons of war are equally useful to both sides, apparently. Ahh, if only the hippies hadn't been so shallow...)
Wonder how many Lois Langs there are out there. They'd have to sponsor a large number because of a potentially high attrition rate.
+10
We saw the union thugs in Michigan and months ago in Wisconsin. Those people would do anything to maintain their ability to rob taxpayers. The left will do anything to advance their agenda.
This one surely looks like a second shooter had to be involved. Does anyone know if the cops waited outside for the shooting to stop like Columbine?
Tying this to the Fox News Union Circus is particularly devoted to your shilldom. I do hope you're being paid, and not actually that naive.
Unless I'm mistaken, and the American Right-wing didn't also use the same methods? I seem to remember 9/11, the War on TerrorTM and the Iraq / Afgan war being started under their watch.
Oh, right. They're both the same coin, just different sides.
/muppet
Dude - I stopped watching TV years ago but it sounds like you still watch like a dumb serf. F Fox News, F TV and F Murdoch. Murdoch was one of the first to come out for more gun control. Bush is not right wing. He is another elite and a RINO.
TV is for serfs who support The Matrix.
Freddie, If you want to know if the cops waited outside you needed to watch CBS news last night. They explained it. Also the change in policy since Columbine.They now rush right in but it was over by then.
Ok sorry I know you dont do TV. (SARC)
It was a reasonable question. The reason for lockdown is to contain the criminal and attempt to keep adults in charge of all the children. Otherwise, let everyone get the fuck out asap. The timing of police arrival and procedure is secondary. They don't know what they are walking into either. Get a grip.
They don't know what they are walking into either. Get a grip.
True, but if they are notgoing to put their ass on the line to save innocents, WHY SHOW UP.Esp in TL Level IV vests, and REAL(in a lot of LE depts).I am not a cop, outfit me in a TL IV vest, and I would into that SOB in a heartbeat.
Grow a set.
They don't know what they are walking into either. Get a grip.
True, but if they are not going to put their ass on the line to save innocents, WHY SHOW UP.Esp in TL Level IV vests, and REAL assault weapons(in a lot of LE depts).
I am not a cop,but outfit me in a TL IV vest, and I would be into that SOB in a heartbeat.
Grow a set.
Yeah that is great. At Columbine et al - let's wait outside till we know what we are walking into. Protect and Serve. Protect their union pension and serve the elites and the union.
If I had been a parent of a kid at Columbine or this school - you would have had to shoot me to keep me from going in there.
Minor correction: in the Bath atrocity a Winchester rifle was used by the prep to detonate the second bomb.
These guys will get their 15 minutes of infamy one way or another.If not guns,
by using something else.
No law remains unperverted, in the US, except the law of the jungle .
Any attempt at a gun ban may well result in a civil war.They may be the plan.
The statist want the guns,and will stop at nothing to get them.
2700+ dead in 9/11 to take your freedoms.What's a few sheeples children to them.
They kill more in a drone attack on a funeral.The self pity being displayed is disgusting.
Narcissistic fucktards all.
"Narcissistic fucktards all."
Sociopaths, evil greedy rich insane incest bred madmen (and a few women) stopping at nothing until either complete control over the masses is obtained or the world is destroyed.
"We will have a one world government, either by consent or conquest".
There is a huge problem in society with the way people suffering from mental disorders are being handled. In most cases the person suffering from the disorder are labled as insane or crazy and thrown into a world of solitude and loneliness, a world which they can't escape because our society doesn't accept their disorder as a medical brain illness but more as a personal problem with themselves dealing with reality or trying to fit into society. This is where the problem lies today, our society needs to realize that one in four of our children will be diagnosed with some form of mental disorder before their brain is developed and reach the age of 25. The numbers are startling, we have seen increases in the 200-300% range year over year and the subject is not being addressed. These kids are simply turned over to Big Pharma and put into a medicated state which they can not get out of once they have have been subjected to the initial dose. For them it's like a prison sentence, living dose to dose trying to function normally in society on drugs that only surpress the problem, not actually deal with it. If the neighbor's daughter is diagnosed with cancer the whole town shows up in support for her and the family yet if the neighbor's son is dignosed with a bi-polar disorder or Asperger Syndrome nobody shows up because in most cases nobody knows and if the truth comes out the neighborhood usually singles the family out as having a crazy person living in the house. With the spike in related cases amongst our youth today we really need to address this issue. More and more kids are falling into the dark abyss and being shunned from society. With the increased social pressures our kids face today thanks to the likes of FB, Twitter, internet chat and all the other Corporate run mind manipulation sources our kids don't stand a chance if they constantly have to fight or defend themselves to keep up with their piers. The pressure these kids face puts many of them at risk, many of them will succumb to some kind of mental disorder without ever knowing why or how they got there. Our society is responsible for our children and what we have subjected them to is simply not acceptable nor is it healthy. If you wan't to point a finger, point it at the Fascist Corporations that have taken over our kids. The Corporations that profit billions by making sure our children stare down at their mind manipulation device, filling their undeveloped brains with informaion they can't handle and then turning them over to their cronies at Big Pharma when the brain can't handle the overload anylonger.
did the shooter's barber have aspergers?
@ link ..
"..The DSM is used in a number of countries to varying degrees. Psychiatrists in some countries including Britain use the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) published by the World Health Organisation or a combination of both handbooks.
In other changes to the DSM, abnormally bad and frequent temper tantrums will be diagnosed as DMDD, meaning disruptive mood dysregulation disorder. Supporters say it will address concerns about too many children being misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder and treated with powerful psychiatric drugs.
"
.
comment: the field of psychology appears to be
a cult of categorization of behaviours and associations
whereby the initiates in the cult, professionals,
are empowered to dispense drugs legally based upon
their observational determinations regarding the
subject and behaviours. they have pathologized
every potential behaviour or lack of behaviour.
every perspective is also potentially pathological
if it is not shared by the clinician, potentially.
they have the authority in certain instances to
incarcerate the divergent or the convergent. every
expression of an individual is a potential manifestation
of some either existing or soon to be described more
fully clinical psychological condition or disease.
to say that the confluence of money, drugs, authority
and study in this area is a potential threat to the
sane individual in the population understates the
ongoing exploitation and damage being done
to the population in the field by these self
identified high priests of the mind and body of
the properly aligned modern human "acting" at
being.
.
there are few poets in the field i suspect,
mostly money hungry drug dealers and heartless
bastards with a condition of their own to work
through, maybe "hyper analytic obsessive voyeurism
and authoritative disorder"?
that' a good one.
there is a web site that lists the mass murders
of recent years and the medications the shooters
were on. would these crimes have been committed without
the pharma intervention? we'll never know.
are people being prescribed mood altering drugs
experimentally, certainly every day.
.
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Gun-control-We-need-medication-control-N...
" (NaturalNews) In mass shootings involving guns and mind-altering medications, politicians immediately seek to blame guns but never the medication. Nearly every mass shooting that has taken place in America over the last two decades has a link to psychiatric medication, and it appears today’s tragic event is headed in the same direction.
According to ABC News, Adam Lanza, the alleged shooter, has been labeled as having “mental illness” and a “personality disorder.” These are precisely the words typically heard in a person who is being “treated” with mind-altering psychiatric drugs.
One of the most common side effects of psychiatric drugs is violent outbursts and thoughts of suicide."
.
Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:31 AM PST.
The drugging of our children and Adam Lanza
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/15/1170258/--He-was-on-medication#
.
"..According to a neighbor of Adam Lanza he was on medication for some type of personality disorder.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
Yesterday, I speculated that AP reports of his condition suggested to me he was medicated for it. I sloppily slung together a diary trying to force my concerns to the surface and the diary didn't get the kind of attention I feel this topic deserves.
I am deeply troubled by the potential toxic side effects of long-term prescription drug use of psychotropics.
First, drugs are typically approved based on clinical trials of adults with fully developed brains. A child may be prescribed psychotropics as young as age 5. "
.
comment:
they talk all morning about the weapons. it will be
too long and too late when they start thinking about
the mind of the shooter and how it was tampered with
by the self appointed high priests of mental disorders.
here i'm out on a limb and perhaps cutting the wrong
side of the limb but ...
he killed the children because the high priests told
him to kill the child in himself and he killed his
mother because she supported that idea and did not
have his back, protect him when he was vulnerable,
and the drugs and guns made it a possibility.
certainly he could have acted out the entire thing
hundreds of times in the virtual world of video
games designed for children with the full support
of the defense department, local merchants,
retail outlets of electronics and games and his
peers.
.
"..It's possible that we are rearing a generation of children who are the very first to be put on psychotropics so early and so long.
So the full array of effects of psychotropics in real time are unknown prior to market. We are raising these children and investing our trust and placing the health of our children in the hands of multi-billion dollar publicly traded corporate conglomerates. I don't want that trust to be blind just because the man/woman who prescribes the psychotropics wears a white coat and gives your kid a lollipop.
Eric Harris, one of the Columbine shooters was prescribed psychotropics. James Holmes was seeing a psychiatrist but information has not been released about whether he had ever been prescribed psychotropics or lived most of his childhood on psychotropics.
Peculiarly, Adam Lanza and the Columbine killers and James Holmes share common traits that describe a digitalized, overmedicated generation. All of them come from affluent communities and mostly stable family units with access to prescription drug coverage. All of them are described as genius by at least one person in their circles, exhibiting normal cognitive function according to public education standards. And in the case of Lanza and the Columbine kids, they were avid gamers, quiet, shy and socially inward.
I'm not drawing any conclusions here I just want us to ask more questions."
.
regarding gun control, "it's not the bullet but the
hole that kills u." the one that pulls the trigger.
i think we are talking about a mental disorder that
is as ubiquitous as gun ownership and dependence but
the gun is merely a potential symptom of the more
deadly disorder ...perhaps spiritual, economic,
educational, mental, cultural ... all those things
people will ignore for fear of introspection.
better to talk about weapons.
Maybe its time to build baricades on every corner,to prevent citizens from autistic kids with guns?
s/
The shooter, Adam, carried his brother's ID. Hence, initial confusion about IDing the shooter. He shoots his mother in the face. I don't have any insight, but looks like some rage. Local news reporting now that the mother was NOT on payroll at the school. The shooter was not buzzed in.
He broke in. The police broke windows to get in so it will take some time to figure out the story.
The picture of the guy shows somebody in 135-140 lbs weight range. No full body picture yet to be seen.
The CT state police is not saying much. What they said yesterday now becomes, "we reviewing all of evidence and we will let you know as soon as we can"
The shooter went to school on Thursday, the day before shooting, The was some altercation. 3 of the people involved were shot. One was not there.
Adam tried to buy a gun/rile from Dicks (sporting store). In CT there is a waiting period and you need to go thru background check. He didn't wanted wait for the background check.
At least he wasn't a nazi like Ron Paul.
"At least he wasn't a nazi like Ron Paul."
Hey! trollin is my job! Good one.. I am in awe.
^
trolling troll trolls again.
violates troll free zone.
shoot on sight.
Trololololololol............
please ... not all nazis were libertarians.
gainful employment or time-consuming hobby. Get one.
Obummer-"regardless of the politics"
Translation-"Oh boy, I get to stick it to my enemies and fuck the Constitution at the same time. And as an added bonus we get further along the path to what I have always wanted, a total gun ban just like they have in dictatorships around the world".
Yes, monsters walk amongst us. That is why we need adequate arms for self-defense against roving gangs, etc.
But there is also a monster in the White House, a soul-less, conniving Marxist. And the people elected him TWICE.
"Hope and Change" has us by the throat for years to come.
"And the people elected him TWICE."
You dumbass.. the people have no say who runs this country. If voting made a difference it would be illegal. Fell for the ole bait and switch like a brain dead sheeple.
As a mental health professional, I have to object to the interpretation of the research cited as supporting a causal link between Autism/Asperger's Disorder to violence. The research article referred to did not establish or claim to establish a causal relationship and had a very small sample size (3 cases). Please review the research cited.
Mental illness and pervasive developmental disorders such as Autism Spectrum Disorders are NOT responsible for the majority of violent crimes or tragedies. Misinformation such as this only contributes to alienating people with mental illness and avoids focusing on the actual causes; easy access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons, the continued disenfrachizement of our society and the lack of mental health resources.
I wonder how many thousands of hours he spent programming himself for violence in first person shooter games?
So your solution is to take away all sharp objects and put everybody in the proverbial padded room to work out their issues. Does that sound like a FREE CITIZENRY or what? Or does that sound like helpless incontinents in search of a dictator and a therapist?
And once we have the dictator there will be no need for therapists just State-mandated euthanasia.
You really don't know how close to the tipping point we are in regards to losing what Liberty we have left, and not just the Second Amendment.
Helpless incontinents? You have no clue what causes mental disorders in the first place. These aren't people that are looking to milk the system. These are the symptoms of physiological malfunctions in the brain. Most of these people don't want help because they don't think there is anything wrong with them. They aren't suffering. They don't search for therapists. They get arrested and then the taxpayers have to determine what caused the problem to begin with. Millions of dollars are wasted dealing with crises after the fact when much less could be spent with an ounce of prevention. CPI, Crisis Prevention Institute. I am not suggesting abandoning the 2nd amendment. I have no issue with guns. Normal guns are not the problem. Semi-autos are a problem, there is simply no need for them. The bigger problem is waiting for someone to commint a henous act and treating the symptom after the fact, instead treating the cause before the fact. An ounce of prevention.....
"Semi-autos" are a problem". So you are okay with pump shotguns and lever action rifles? Put any half-trained shooter in a room of kids with a revolver and one of those firearms, and you will get the same result. You think the kids (or adults) are going to charge him to get to the door? Get Real! You are either being disingenuous, really seeking a full firearms ban down the road, or you are just another useful idiot for those people who are seeking that total gun ban.
Don't try to take me and my family down to your level, just because you either don't have the guts to defend yourself or because you think you can somehow escape the monsters on the street or the monsters-to-be in an unrestrained government.
I think you are intentionally misunderstanding me. I happen to own a lever action rifle. I've hunted all my life. There's no way you can convince me that semi autos with 20 round clips are necessary. Yes, someone can do the same thing with a lever (that holds 6 rounds) but they will kill a lot fewer people out by the time they are stopped. You are agreeing with me that the issue is more with prevention.
So a guy has a pump shotgun with eight rounds to go. Then he has two seven shot revolvers in his belt with speed-loaders at the ready. Then he has a big-ass Samurai Sword strapped to his side. And for the kicker he has a molotov cocktail in his backpack ready to smash at the entrance to the door. How many get out of the room alive?
And you see how stupid this is? Let us say your wish comes true and magically all semi-autos disappear from the United States, (and the border with Mexico is sealed). Then my scenario happens with the same result except this time more are dead. Will you be screaming for these firearms to be banned as well? Yes, you will.
It is for the Common Good, you say. You are a slave in the making, not a free man.
Or taking it further. All he needed was a single-shot shotgun to take out the adult. Then he could have locked the door and did the rest with the sword. Accept Evil, it exists, and there is no way around not accepting its existence.
We have a State-mandated amoral society in which a significant minority of the populace has no morals or is unhinged due to drugs, etc. And there are many more of them than in the past, just through population growth. And we are more mobile than in the past. So bad stuff can happen anywhere and at anytime. I want that 20 round mag in my AR when a car-full of thugs pulls up for a home invasion. I like my chances thus armed, otherwise I do not.
Police are only good for post-mortems.
Police are only good for post-mortems.
And post-crimes of any type. And any sort of odd behavior, such as walking down the street naked, or keeping a scorpion under your hat and not understanding why you keep having headaches, or showing your pee-pee to kids in mini-mart. And YOU pay for those police to act on these behaviors. Then the police take them to jail, or the hospital if something violent has occured, and YOU pay for those hospital bills. Then they call teh department of health and welfare to come evaluate the individual and determint if he/she is just a criminal or has a disorder and YOU pay for that too. And then the person has to held and fed in a facility until they go to court and YOU pay for that. Then if they are disabled then they have to be given treatment and probably prescribed drugs and YOU pay for that. And if they have to institutionalized YOU pay for that. YOU pay for all of it. Usually, all this occurs after the parent knows that the kid has a disorder and the kid has been assessed. But the parent neglects to conform to prescribed treatment, such as not allowing guns in the house, or if the case is severe, allowing them to stop taking their meds, stop supporting and understanding the behavior, and generally neglecting the kid, then there is trouble and YOU pay for it. Most of these people have no support group around them because their parents are fucked up to begin with, and they don't support them (cause they are usually trash doing drugs, fighting, and fucking in front of their kids). The kids become isolated, frustrated, angry, confused, alone. Then they see shitheads becoming famous on the TV for shooting a bunch of other people. Like they say in the NFL, it is a copycat league. Kids these days are narcissistic and selfish and only care about fame (tweeting, facebook, talking about nothing but themselves and what they are doing), even if that fame comes from something henous. It's not henous to them because most lack empathy, it's just an act of fame. So, if you enjoy paying more state taxes to deal with these people, go ahead and advocate for guns in the homes of disturbed people. If you don't enjoy paying more taxes for these things then advocate for prevention. MILLIONS per state wasted every year.
Disclaimer: This is not in any shape or form a liberal message, it is a common sense message, a conservative (less tax) message.
"There's no way you can convince me that semi autos with 20 round clips are necessary."
Neessary for what? Hunting - no. Shooting competitions - some. Resisting the ever-growing tyranny - yes. Having fun popping off a bunch of sots quickly - absolutely!
First, yes I think early screening and improved treatment is the answer, but not pharmacutical treatment.
For guns: How can you overthrow the government with lever-action rifles? And if you do not believe that common people should be able to overthrow the government, then maybe you are in the wrong country?
Someone asked earlier about drones. For that, there is cyberwarfare, GPS spoofing, signal jamming, maybe EMP?
You are under the delusional assumption that all of our rifles can overcome the most powerful military the world has every seen. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Your semi-auto isn't even a pop-gun compared to the weapons the military has. But you still have your ideology. You may want to look into pharmacuticals, they will help ease the pain. Oh, nevermind, you won't feel any pain, you'll just suddenly become pieces....or vapor. God Damn you guys. Do any of you think this stuff through?
Well, in the event of civil war, it seems unlikely that 100% of the military would side with the State. Often, some or all of the military will turn against the regime.
Also, you do not need to defeat the military (i.e. kill, wound or capture all the soldiers). You just need to topple the regime.
Your obsession with semi-automatics as being the bane of all existence is kind of bizarre. With ample training, a person can fire 12 rounds in 3 seconds with a 6-shooter; that is including reloading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEgJNgDY0Ys
Now, before you dismiss this, keep in mind that as far as we know, the Sandy Hook shooter has been training at a gun range since he was 5.
Uh-oh...
The dreaded "disenfranchised" word.
If there has ever been misdiagnosed appellation it would certainly be this one.
A sort of bargain bin for all of 'society's' faults and shortcomings.
"Of course I shot him...He gave me incorrect change.
I was disenfranchised."
Use of that word is the biggest tell that you know what political spectrum it's user is from.
Besides 'automatic' weapons.
Shovelhead is a very appropriate name for you. People with a mental disorder, especially aspergers feel disenfranchised because they are shunned (and the article states). They are shunned because people like you don't understand what causes them to be different in the first place. To state that I am a liberal is telling that you don't know what you are talking about and you don't have an argument to the contrary. Other people, myself included, don't vote because we feel we are not represented and the system is rigged, which it is. I have a feeling many on this site feel the same way. If you think your vote is represented you are a fool. Unless this monetary and military mess is what you wanted. That is disenfranchisement. Has nothing to do with party politics. There a lot of people that feel hopeless for their futures. My mistake, I thought this was a forum for intelligent conversation, not hyperbole.
My mistake, I thought this was a forum for intelligent conversation, not hyperbole.
Oh, come on, Doc. Didn't you READ these boards before you started posting?
Most of this is self-administered primal scream therapy.
Harley Davidson perfected the Shovelhead engine in the mid 80's, before switching to that evolution piece of shit, Joker you liberal assface.
Oh for fucks sake. 1) I know what a shovelhead is, I was speaking metaphorically, 2) I am not a liberal, I despise liberals and all they stand for. i believe they are destroying america. I am not a bleeding heart, I am not altruistic. I am a firm believer in natural selection. I have no party affiliation. I am more conservative than anything, though do like some of the libertarian stance. Jesus man, WHY SO SERIOUS?
This has nothing to do with facts and everything to do with establishing precedent..............
Misinformation such as this only contributes to alienating people with mental illness and avoids focusing on the actual causes; easy access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons, the continued disenfrachizement of our society and the lack of mental health resources.
Easy access?.
As to autism, I agree they are not always the one's doing the shootings, but in every case we have seen mental disorders of SOME kind add's to the picture.
As for what I know about, there is no easy access for access to AUTOMATIC weapons( they cost $4-30k), and a very riogorous check(like is done for CCP licenses) is done first, and if there is easy access to semi auto, or whatever type firearm, that falls on the owner/s of the weapons.
That is why safes are produced.There is no excuse for not securing lethal weapons..................none.
If you own firearms, even if you do not have kids, YOUR MUST own a safe capable of securing them at all times.
If your not willing to plunk down $500-600.00( Cost of ONE good semi auto pistol) on a decent safe(combo/digital lock),you should not even own them/Thieves break in all the time.
Leaving them easily accessible is the owners problem.
Right. I agree automatic weapons are not easy to access, I misspoke in my haste. Semi's are. Although, it is easy to convert a semi to auto, if you know how. But that's not the issue. Look, my whole point is not to ban guns, I am very against that and they would have to peel mine from my cold dead hands. My point is, aspergers is not the cause of violence, it is a lot more complicated than that. The fact that there were only 3 cases cited will tell you that, and one was self defense. Also, if anyone is diagnosed with any sort of disorder, they should not be living in an environment where guns, any type, are allowed in the house. That is mostly his parents fault, and they neglected him to make matters worse because they didn't understand him. Just as sex offenders shouldn't allowed near playgrounds, mentally ill or developmentally disabled people should not be allowed near guns.
I take issue with your comment, "semi-autos are easy to convert to full auto" that is nonesense. You would need the parts, which are easy to get, but you need a mill and experience to actually do it. US ar-15's, which is what he had, not an M-4 like the media lies about, are built with intentianal metal pieces left in which would need to be remoived in order to convert it to fuill auto. the metal needs to be a specific depth and width plus the sear hole needs to be erfect. For an AK-47 variant it is more difficult as you need to cut into one of the side rails plus drill the hole in the perfect location for the sear, impossible by 95% of gun owners and by me who actually knows his way around, obviously, the building of a gun.
Now, if you are talking bump fire or tying a shoelace around the trigger, sure, but that is hardly safe or accurate. As for your other stuff, if someone has asperger or is autistic they shouldn't have a gun, sorry, but these are mental issues. For the record, I believe mental records need to be included in the background checks. However, banning AR-15's or AK variants is bull, those are rarely if ever used in crime, period. Handguns are used 95%+ in violent crimes, rape for example, would be hard to accomplish with an AK-47 unless he has his victim hold it while he does the deed... not trying to be funny, but make a point, rape is the worst crime a person can commit, IMHO, as the person lives after.
You may have a point. I shouldn't have made a sweeping generalization. I am familiar with the M-16, being a vet, not the other auto's you refer to. All you have to do is....well, I better not say on a public forum, but it is easy. Thank you, that's all I'm saying, stronger background checks...and holding parents accountable. She should have never had weapons in the house.
Stop this "automatic" weapons BS because they essentially don't exist. You need a Class 3 licenses, thousands of dollars and an insane background check. Bill Simon the Treasury Secretary failed the background check years ago.
How many kids are mentally ill? My guess is mommy and daddy (usually yuppie/baby boomers) are so into what mommy and daddy want that kids take the back seat. Johnny seems a little troubled so let's get him on powerful mind altering drugs like anti depressants.
ADD, Asperbergers and other crap is a cop out. These yuppies then let Johnny, who is on now essentially LSD, buy violent video games and movies. What could go wrong? If your kid is "depressed" then come up with a natural way to increased seritonin or positive moods by exercise.
Also what kid in high school is not often depressed? The parents should have bought this kid a gym pass and dropped him off at a gym instead of putting him on doc perscribed LSD.
We create mental illness in young people in this country because it is a big business for doctors, shrinks and Big Pharma.
On our local news they kept bloviating about the murderer's 'legally obtained' guns.
What a load of BS. He killed his mother then used her guns for this bloody escapade.
They were stolen guns. How is a stolen gun 'legally obtained'?
Also, there are mentions of a shotgun being removed from the school, other guns, too. Then they found .223 brass in the school, but the rifle in the trunk of the black car.
Doesn't add up.
why does a teacher's aid have that kind of fire power?
Even women have entered the shooting sports in the last few years, but she did go for military style pistols and a rifle, so yeah, she was an oddball at least.
Ann Barnhardt has a pink AR, maybe it's catching on.
Duh...she bought the weapons because it was something her douchebag kid could do with his friends. And because he was semi-autistic he had not friends, other than his gothy co-wierdos.
In the end this is going to come down to a kid who's parents tried to placate his every wish because little Johnny was "special." We can give him access to the guns, because its, you know, a social thing.
Fucking idiot Baby Boomer parents.
gothy co-wierdos?
From somebody whose culture loves gangsta rap and its guns thats pretty funny.
She was getting over $250k annually in alimony and seems to have had a lot of time on her hands. I don't think she was working as a teacher's aid for the money.
For a woman, the .223/5.65 should be pleasant to shoot, it has almost no recoil versus the .308/7.62. The .223 is frequently used to shoot varmints like coyotes, so it's not an awfully powerful cartridge -- and one of the big criticisms of the AR design.
I thought that the choice of weapons was a little unusual for a woman in the northeast -- but if she shot competitively, she may have owned some others. It wouldn't have been an unusual selection for her GE-executive ex-husband, I think.
AFAIK, her son could not have legally purchased a handgun anywhere in the US at the age of 20.
"Doesn't add up."
It's no coincidence that many of these incidents, and details thereof, make no sense.
During the Columbine reportage it was mentioned that there were more than a dozen propane tanks in various places around the school. How did Klebold and the other little rat sneak all that stuff in?
Doesn't add up, either.
This just in: The medical examiner has a video up on the Washington Post site in which he states that every corpse he examined was shot several times with a 'long weapon' (those .223s).
Every body he examined. The story last night was that the killer used his pistols and his rifle was still in the car.
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/50210025#50210025
The facts they just keep changin'
Also on MSNBC videos: Shooter had 'altercation' with four staff members the prior day; three were killed. Mother portrayed as 'survivalist', 'stockpiler' and 'gun collector' worried about 'economic collapse'.
Also, NSSF HQ just a couple of miles away
http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111148/three-miles-tragic-shooting-bastion...
Divorced father is Tax Director at GE Energy Financial Services
http://www.infowars.com/father-of-alleged-connecticut-shooter-is-vp-of-g...
Where is that second shooter with his .223 brass when you need him? Sort of like the other shooter at Colorado who ducked out the back door.
No word on the kid being on mind altering anti-depressant drugs and playing violent video games I am sure.
We would not want to ban Hollywood's video games or Big Pharma's kid LSD to help Johnny cope because his yuppy parents are too busy for Johnny.
Let old Sgt. Slaughter in Tour of Duty or Master Chief in Halo or Gary Oldman doing the Russian Victor Reznov in Call of Duty. Let's these fictional 3-d high res killers bring up Johnny.
We need to ban all Accidents.
Only predetermined actions will be allowed.
Said actions shall be predermined by your government.
You will be duly notified and arrested should you be acting in non compliance.
We need to ban momentum, the common culprit behind car crashes, fall injuries and gunshot wounds. Congress needs to repeal or amend Newton's first law.
Newton's laws of motion have already been repealed by the Bush administration in order to enable the government's explanation of the building collapses on 9/11. It must have been by executive order since Congress wasn't involved AFAIK.
More GMO's needed. There solved the fucking issue.