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On The Dole And Watching The Pole: The New Normal EBT-Card User

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Welfare recipients took out cash at bars, liquor stores, X-rated video shops, hookah parlors and even strip club - where they presumably spent their taxpayer money on lap dances rather than diapers, a NY Post investigation found. From Bronx strip clubs to gay dive bars in the East Village, US taxpayer-sponsored EBT cards have been inserted into ATMs and food stamp 'cash' has presumably been used to feed another need. The Post found dozens of pubs, nightclubs and tobacco shops where welfare dough was dispensed - and presumably spent. We should not worry too much though as Hilda Solis put us straight on how many millions of jobs these EBT-card fund recipients are creating and while we pass no judgment on those receiving and using the funds in whatever they see most fit, Cato's Michael Tanner summed it quite succinctly: "This is morally scandalous, I have nothing against strip clubs, but that’s not what benefits are for. I don’t blame [recipients]. If you are poor, it’s a crummy life and you want to have a drink or see a naked woman. I blame the people who are in charge of this." 32oz sodas made us gulp; rare steak tough to swallow; but take away the strippers and liquor - anarchy.

Via NY Post:

They’re on the dole — and watching the pole.

 

Welfare recipients took out cash at bars, liquor stores, X-rated video shops, hookah parlors and even strip clubs — where they presumably spent their taxpayer money on lap dances rather than diapers, a Post investigation found.

 

A database of 200 million Electronic Benefit Transfer records from January 2011 to July 2012, obtained by The Post through a Freedom of Information request, showed welfare recipients using their EBT cards to make dozens of cash withdrawals at ATMs inside Hank’s Saloon in Brooklyn; the Blue Door Video porn shop in the East Village; The Anchor, a sleek SoHo lounge; the Patriot Saloon in TriBeCa; and Drinks Galore, a liquor distributor in The Bronx.

 

The state Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance (OTDA), which oversees the “cash assistance program,” even lists some of these welfare-ready ATMs on its Web site.

 

One EBT machine is stationed inside Club Eleven, an infamous Hunts Point jiggle joint known as much for its violent history as its girls in pink thongs.

 

Cops have been cracking down on the Bronx club since 2009 and shut it down temporarily in 2010. In July, five men were stabbed and two others shot outside after bouncers broke up a 4 a.m. brawl with pepper spray. The club appeared to be shuttered when The Post visited Thursday.

 

Club Heat, another Bronx strip club that dispenses EBT cash, is also no stranger to violence. A 33-year-old woman was fatally shot in the head outside the club in December 2011.

 

Critics blasted the government for turning a blind eye to welfare’s sleazy money.

 

“This is morally scandalous,” said Michael Tanner, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. “I have nothing against strip clubs, but that’s not what benefits are for. I don’t blame [recipients]. If you are poor, it’s a crummy life and you want to have a drink or see a naked woman. I blame the people who are in charge of this.”

 

Welfare recipients receive food stamps and cash assistance under the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Both benefits are accessed through an EBT card, but only cash assistance — meant for housing, utilities and household necessities — can be accessed at ATMs.

 

A single-person household could receive a maximum $200 in monthly food stamps plus $158 in cash assistance. A family of four could get as much as $668 in food stamps and $433 in cash.

 

The food-stamp program prohibits the purchase of booze, tobacco and lottery tickets with an EBT card. But with the cash-assistance program, users can blow money on strippers or a six-pack and to tap welfare dollars from liquor stores, casinos and adult-oriented establishments.

 

The Post found dozens of pubs, nightclubs and tobacco shops where welfare dough was dispensed — and presumably spent.

 

The Boiler Room, a gay dive bar in the East Village, had $120 and $60 transactions a minute apart on Jan. 17, 2011. The bar is around the corner from a Bank of America that takes EBT cards.

 

West Village tobacco shop Shisha International had EBT transactions ranging from $40 to $180 in 2011. The store is near at least two EBT-friendly ATMs.

 

Legislative efforts to crack down on sinful spending have fallen short.

 

State Sen. Tom Libous (R-Binghamton) passed a bill in his chamber in June that would outlaw welfare withdrawals at gambling dens, strip clubs and other venues of vice, but the measure is gathering dust in the Democratic-controlled Assembly.

 

Libous is looking for a new Assembly sponsor to carry the bill in that house in the upcoming legislative session, after past sponsor George Latimer (D-Rye) was elected to the state Senate.

 

With only one of the city’s Assembly members, Nicole Malliotakis (R-B’klyn./SI), as a co-sponsor, the bill faces an uphill battle.

 

The Assembly typically doesn’t support welfare reform, because its more liberal members think the measures “hurt the poor,” Libous said. If the bill remains stalled, the state stands to lose $120 million in federal welfare funding.

 

The Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act, signed by President Obama last February, requires states to prohibit sinful welfare spending by 2014. If they don’t, they’ll forfeit federal cash.

 

“The people who are stealing from the program are the ones I want to go after,” Libous said. “Not someone who lost his job or a single mom who has to feed her kids. That’s what this program is supposed to be for.”

 

A spokesman with the US Department of Health and Human Services said states make their own rules on EBT cards.

 

Some states already limit where EBT cards can withdraw money.

 

A rep from OTDA, New York’s welfare office, said the state does not choose or regulate which retailers get ATMs that handle EBTs. Instead, retailers decide whether to use an ATM that accepts welfare cards.

 

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Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:09 | 3127523 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

The moocher will be the hero when most of the budget goes to war, the police state, and bankers.  When the producer saves in paper and the moocher quits powering the hamster wheel, takes welfare cash (probably a raise) and buys metal.  Bonus points if the moocher buys silver with a Chase card cash advance before defaulting.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:51 | 3127640 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The moochers are nothing but the recruits used by the banksters & their paid-for politicians as troops in a coming conflict that will be framed as 'class war' and 'race war'.  (You didnt think it was coincidence that a half black/half white guy with little record of accomplishment would be made POTUS, did you ?)

Those who may be fooled into playing along with this have much more in common with each other than the banksters who are using 'debt' to enslave us all.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 14:33 | 3127287 linrom
linrom's picture

EBT brought down western civilization...and America! LOL.

It's too bad that all this brain power on ZH is really nothing more than farting brainwaves because surely its readers couldn't be this stupid.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:06 | 3127352 Salon
Salon's picture

EBT is just one of many things that have harmed the productivity and virtue of our people.

Asia does not coddle people. They do not make excuses for laziness or irresponsible behavior, and they dont enable it with govetnment funding.

Yet we wonder why Asia is destined to eclipse us.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:21 | 3127391 alentia
alentia's picture

They have no minimum wage laws.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:26 | 3127404 Salon
Salon's picture

And yet it appears they may in aggregate ultimately have a higher standard of living than us.

We shall see

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:18 | 3127383 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Ah, a comment from the "free lunch" contingent of ZH.  No, an "entitlement mentality" and lack of personal responsibility brought down all cilivilazations including this one.  You have to "work" to reduce entropy.  And reduction of entropy is the purpose of life and the purpose of competiion and evolution.

Please read the parable of the ant and the grasshopper if you want to understand this arcane concept of responsibility. 

When you give someone something for "free" it has no value.  Remember free=0.  So if you want to destroy value just make it "free" (see e.g. free higher education,  free health care etc, "free" food)

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:40 | 3127443 linrom
linrom's picture

Sites like this indoctrinate that some people are above others and need not pay any tax because these people are job creators. Yet there is posting today about $1 Trillion of debt amassed by people getting college education in order to get jobs.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:47 | 3127619 Salon
Salon's picture

I guess I missed it.

Where has it been said by the Tylers that some people are above others and shouldnt have to pay taxes?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:12 | 3127802 Blano
Blano's picture

You obviously haven't been here long to state that kind of drivel.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:42 | 3127450 linrom
linrom's picture

When you give someone something for "free" it has no value.

 

I am sorry, but this statement is nonsensical.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:16 | 3127538 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

Sage man, I like the way you think.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:18 | 3127679 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

I agree and when you speak of welfare include the tax breaks given for spitting out the horrible little bastards and whores year after year.

 

No way should the responsible have to pay via tax handouts for the mindless fucks dropping kids every other year.

 

O , this means all you muddle class peeps as well.

 

You want to have kids/nice homes then PAY for it out of your own pocket, don't come looking for us producers to fund your kiddies.

fuck off welfare bums , all of you.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 14:38 | 3127295 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

finding extreme examples of welfare abuse is quite easy - it is the demagogue's favorite cudgel to incite anger and action against an unfavored practice or idea....but the truth is that the majority of people on these programs are desperately trying to stay alive....shame on you for this yellow journalism....

while all of you self righteous obnoxious assholes are spending several hundred dollars on products made by nike's indonesian slave labor camps, there are millions struggling to stay alive....there are children all over america who are too hungry to stay awake during school to say nothing of studying....

god damn all of you fucking preening self righteous assholes!!!!

and i won't say anything about the biggoted fucks who demand that we spend even more trillions on wars of foreign aggression, trillions more on the military, and trillions more to bomb some people in the middle east....all the while lamenting a few billion spent on welfare and who create barriers to employment with the nazi act and other totalitarian measures to create a slave society....

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:08 | 3127361 Salon
Salon's picture

There are plenty of jobs.

They can rake my leaves. If they do a good job I will give a good reference to my neighbor.

But why work when you don't have too?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:57 | 3127496 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Welfare abuse?  Isn't that a redundancy?  Welfare abuses those who receive it and those who have to pay for it.  

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:21 | 3127683 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

90% of these useless welfare bums complaining in this thread would cry like babies if THEIR welfare(tax breaks,etc) were taken away.

 

THEY LUV TO SPOUT BULLSHIT ALL THE WHILE TAKING THE FREEBIES FROM US PRODUCERS.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:40 | 3128049 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

there are children all over america who are too hungry to stay awake during school to say nothing of studying

 

Seeing that I teach weekly in a middle school, this is indeed true of poor kids. Of course, said kids are also foten subject to the whims of welfare givers. Most recently Michelle Obama decided to encourage schools to put less meat in their lunches, robbing kids of calories, particularly non-carb calories. It's making the sleeping/irratibility problem worse. What's ironic of course are that some of these kids ride to school in a Lexus; wrong priorities from every side.

 

Like I said in an earlier post; bring back the bread lines instead of keeping the whole thing anonymous via EBT cards. Parents need to learn some hard lessons, and the public needs to see the true extent of the problem.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 14:44 | 3127312 max2205
max2205's picture

Now pot

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 14:49 | 3127322 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

I am sure that the trillions in taxpayer dollars to bail out banksters, or to subsidize the insurance, big pharma and the military/death industry never goes toward porn, prostitution, pedophilia, drugs or any other illicit products or services. It just goes towards good, wholesome stuff. Same goes for the the taxpayer funded paychecks to reps and senators I'm sure. As do the donations to churches and their pastors, etc...

This system is corrupt from top to bottom folks. See the whole picture, not just that part you want to see.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:10 | 3127365 Salon
Salon's picture

You use that disingenious argument to continue welfare spending.

I say lets focus On all of it and end all of it, one step at a time

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:24 | 3127398 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Yeah Tylers, why doesn't ZH ever bash the bankers.

/sarc

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:16 | 3127540 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

I never said ZH does not bash bankers. I was just being all-inclusive to note that this whole crap pile is corrupt and beyond repair. Sorry for not explaining every detail for the sake of brevity. It appears I must do so for many here as they prefer to focus only on their pet welfare hates.

My mistake KickIce. I concede to the brilliance displayed in your posts. /sarc

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:01 | 3127650 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Gotcha, every post on ZH needs a complete list of America's problems.  Is there enough bandwidth?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 14:56 | 3127325 itstippy
itstippy's picture

The EBT card abuse is peanuts. 

I want to know why 47% of adults in Detroit are functionally illiterate.  We spend billions on the public education system, and a major US city has 47% illiteracy rate?  What the Hell?

Any adult born in this country who is functionally illiterate is just plain lazy, useless shit (unless they're mentally retarded, in which case I'm sympathetic). 

The idea that that if you present people with opportunity they will embrace it, apply themselves, and succeed falls apart when you have a 47% illiteracy rate in Detroit.  Fuckers aren't even trying to help themselves.  Fuck 'em.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:32 | 3127418 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Make it so they can't get an EBT card without passing a literacy test.

If you are illiterate and lazy, no more freebies.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:55 | 3127494 spooz
spooz's picture

Right.  Throw the already disadvantaged under the bus. Let them and their spawn live in boxes and beg for food.

Oh, wait, I must have missed the sarcasm again.  Because if ignorance is the measure, I don't believe that eugenics would be on your side.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:37 | 3127438 Salon
Salon's picture

When i worked in a consulting setting in Memphis the psychologists were being scolded for diagnosing too much mental retardation.

It led me to the theory that in all hopeless backwaters where there are no opportunities for the ambitious that they leave for greener pastures.

Most of the hardworking intelligent people have left Detroit. Due to welfare and disability checks none of the others had any motivation to leave.

The low reading rate if controlled for IQ and learning disorders is probably no different in detroit than elsewhere.

The smart ambitious left. The less capable remain

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:52 | 3127485 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Motor City is just prove that literacy is overrated.

Assembling cars just marginally better than those of Russia built for a captive market too did the trick for half a century. They should have outlawed non-engineering schools.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:43 | 3127327 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 What a bunch of fucking [Pavement Apes], is how we will be perceived by future historians...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:02 | 3127343 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

Stuff like this is why gummit can't be in the business of shuffling checks around.

For whatever it's worth, there are alternative reasons for WHY welfare cash is being withdrawn at places like strip clubs.  Some dole-recipients also run their own off-the-books small businesses, and everyone knows you have to go where the customers are if you want to be successful.

We wouldn't want to punish the small entrepreneur, would we?  Small business is the engine of growth and primary provider of jobs in this society.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:49 | 3127473 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Like is not a shuffling card game, unless shuffling card games, are your life!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:02 | 3127346 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

Stipid question alert.

Why are food stamps convertible into cash?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:11 | 3127367 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Because:

A) It's embarrasing to be on line and pay for food with food stamps

B) So Chase Paymentech can make rips on the mercha CoUGH WheeZE (Gun poked in back) I mean serve the community!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:13 | 3127372 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

They're not.  You're misinterpreting the quoted article, just like the lazy-ass Tyler who posted it without doing any fact-checking.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:36 | 3127578 James
James's picture

Food stamps ARE NOT redeemable for cash ANYWHERE!

The issue is a program called TANF.

Temporary Assistance for Needy Families.

The ONLY way you are elligible for TANF is if children are involved.

These jokers are taking cash from their own kids.

This cash is loaded to an EBT card though.

But cheer-up, TANF has a 5 year lifetime limit!

 

Edit: poster below named Spooz beat me to it.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:50 | 3127623 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I actually went and nosed around on New Yorks website...nowhere did I find a guideline for the use of cash...ie, can't use cash withdrawls to buy liqour, smokes, strippers, porn etc. Maybe I didn't look hard enough but something like that should be emblazoned across the top of the page under something like...

>>>TERMS & CONDITIONS<<<

http://otda.ny.gov/legal/

It's just more legalized theft/fraud. Even on the page where you narc somebody out for abuse they ask the "whistleblower" to fill in what the crooks name is.

Really?

Excuse me sir, I notice you're using an EBT to get cash here in the titty bar, may I have your name & address so I can let your wife & children know and then drop a dime on your ass?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:03 | 3127348 DR
DR's picture

The solution> No cash assistance...period!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:36 | 3127430 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I'm sure DC stands ready to offer a consulting position as soon as they're made aware of this.  Make sure to mention drug tests and time limits as well.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:19 | 3127387 alentia
alentia's picture

All it does show, there is a shadow cash economy growing in the US. Welfare collectors have their cash income in addition to welfare, specifically in big cities. When taxes are too high and welfare is available, many people and business swtich to cash-cash business to avoid miltiple tax levies, resulting in win-win situation for employee and employer and where government imposed minimum wage is ignored.

Free market forces are in play.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:21 | 3127388 KingTut
KingTut's picture

This is the problem with welfare.  Are these free adults? Then what they spend the money on is their  business.  Does the welfare program exist to help the poor or micro-control thier behavior?  The problem is the little money they might make is fungible with thier benefits, so really they shouldn't ever go to a strip club if the're receivng benefits.  Then it becomes pure control, which I don't support.

Look, I understand why this makes people mad, but I'm questioning whether they should be mad about the recipients behavior or the welfare concept to begin with.  Anybody who spends his welfare check on a strip club is missing some gears beween his ears.  He's probably never going to get ahead anyway.  

You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or you can teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.  It's just just that some guys would rather stuff their money into a thong.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:42 | 3127451 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

See definition of Moral Hazard please. Then feel free to rephrase your statement.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:34 | 3127389 spooz
spooz's picture

First, why do you refer to "food stamp cash" when SNAP (food stamp) beneficiaries are not able to access cash?  This kind of LIE is propaganda, pure and simple.

The only people able to get cash from EBT are those receiving Temporary Assistance for Needy Families,  families with dependent children, and it is intended to supplement families who do not have the means to support their children.  There is a work requirement and a five year limit on benefits.

So those who are misusing EBT cash may be irresponsible parents, who choose their own needs over their families needs.  We should probably increase the number of child welfare workers to make sure kids are being taken care of. The fact that a few losers are misusing EBT cards seems like much less a moral hazard than Corzine, LIBOR fixing, Too Big To Fail subsidies, etc.

In any case, as caseloads have plummeted, the number of families in deep poverty has grown:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3700

 

 

 

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:10 | 3127528 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

I never said that moral hazard existed only at this level of the Ponzi.  The Bankers are just as guilty. I was merely trying to make a point that moral hazard is what always comes when some fucking jerkoff be he politician or banker( those terms have pretty much become synonomous) decides to take someone elses money and do something they feel justified  doing with it.     People are always going to sin, it just needs to be with their own money and not someone elses.  What if your poor neighbor decided to take out a mortgage against your property in your name so he could spend that money on a party in Vegas  complete with hookers and blow.  Now, disregard the fact that there are laws on the books that should prohibit this and think just from a purely moral standpoint.  Does it sound reasonable for him to assert that you should pay for his gambling habit and his affinty with hookers and blow?     That's where the line is crossed, all too often.  That is at the root of our entire breakdown.  Think about it very carefully and you will realize it to be true.  People love to put the already earned at risk especially if it is someone elses and they don't miss a meal either way.  If I'm a money manager and I pay myself a cool 1% for management win place or show.  If I am managing 50 Billion I guess I am doing ok in present day money.  Sure I may fuck up and lose my clients money, but I got my 1% of 50 Billion for the year so they could fire me and I'm still gonna do ok for the rest of my life. 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:53 | 3127629 spooz
spooz's picture

The point is, resolving an economic/financial crisis seems to mean picking winners and losers.  The decisions that were made kept bondholders whole and propped up equities and banks "for the greater good" apparently. 

Your example of bending of rule of law is ridiculous.  Rule of law is only bent for the powerful, not the pawns.

And does the "already earned" include the profits made on insider information?  The growing inequality in this country is more a factor of questionable financial gains in a corrupt system than anything else. You play in the pond, you get dirty. I have a hard time seeing taxing that kind of wealth to provide for the disadvantaged as being bad.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-21/wall-street-s-insider-trading-t...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:07 | 3127661 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I have a hard time seeing taxing that kind of wealth to provide for the disadvantaged as being bad."

So you're saying ONLY taxes from the wealthy go to the disadvantaged?

I think everyone is on the same page with this modest proposal or should be..."Cash withdrawls cannot be used for titty bars, liquor, beer, wine, smokes, pay per view porn or the privilege & convenience of cash through this card will be cut off".

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:31 | 3127709 spooz
spooz's picture

Since cash is fungible, I find it hard to imagine how, short of a police state, you could limit its use.  Many families are working poor, so they have other funds besides Temporary Assistance for Needy Family cash.

It would be nice to know that the children are having their basic needs provided for and I would be in favor of monitoring that.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:49 | 3127750 nmewn
nmewn's picture

What I'm saying is, its a card that they're getting cash through, it can be made inoperable at any given location...say like a titty bar or a liquor store.

I'll also say, the "working poor" and "disadvantaged" memes are getting a little thread bare with me as we discuss the "disadvantaged & working poor" using the cards at, ya know, titty bars, instead of a gas station to get to and from work.

Surely you see my point.

And aren't they are using the power of a police state to extract wealth from taxpayers in order to load money onto that same card ? And we haven't even gotten into national socialism aspects of JP Morgan etal getting kickbacks from the invention/use of the cards.

Which may very well be WHY New York City (Wall Street) has zero problem with machines accepting them EVERYWHERE and spitting out "fungible cash".

Its everywhere you need to be doesn't work when its fraud.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:09 | 3127775 spooz
spooz's picture

So what is to stop them from accessing the ATM at the bank next to the titty bar.  Cash is fungible.  Get it?

And maybe the poor working stiff who can't earn enough at Walmart to support his family gets a pop now and then?  What is this, a police state?

The power of the police state and the justice system seems more intent on protecting the truly corrupt while creating more rules for the sheeple.  That includes the continuing looting going on in the financial sector, aided and abetted by the government, your JPM being an example of that. Pretty common for the oligarchs to attach themselves to populist causes.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:15 | 3127806 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"So what is to stop them from accessing the ATM at the bank next to the titty bar."

Nothing except the good graces of the bouncer at the front door as he goes & back and forth because he can't manage his money correctly...obviously.

"And maybe the poor working stiff who can't earn enough to support his family gets a pop now and then?"

He's "a poor working stiff" paying a cover charge at a titty bar. I think now we're getting down to why he can't earn enough to support his family.

"What is this, a police state?"

There you go again...do you like police states or not?...and then you go off the rails with the rest.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:52 | 3128096 spooz
spooz's picture

So, the Walmart workers are consigned to bread and water for life?  They can't have a moment of frivolity in their hopelessly bleak existence? 

Oh, I see.

And, yes, any monitoring of my spending habits by big brother feels like police state.

Again, where did I say I liked police states? What assumptions are you making about my beliefs?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:10 | 3128292 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"And, yes, any monitoring of my spending habits by big brother feels like police state."

The STATE monitors what it GIVES you, leech. You are a pawn.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 22:13 | 3128447 spooz
spooz's picture

The state only knows which ATM the EBT cash came from.  Not allowing certain ATMs to be used doesn't change that.  So the janitor who cleans up at the strip club but doesn't earn enough to support his family can't use his EBT card at work. While anybody who really wants to spend money at a "titty bar" could simply use a designated ATM before going.  Unworkable.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:29 | 3127838 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

As long as he is using someone elses money he should not be engaged in any hedonistic behavior.  It's just downright disrespectful or do you not get that????  Are you fucking thick or something?  Would you hand a guy on the street your next paycheck with the promise of repayment who was a crack head and was begging you for a little scratch just to get his next fix? I'm sure he is gonna re-pay you right?  If you were sane probably not.  But if it was someone elses money,  I'm guessing your liberal guilt and lack of general morality would let you give him some money for his habit cause hey it's not my money right?  It was someone elses!!! Is your mind so twisted that you believe that the money that goes into your bank account  doesn't slosh around in the slueces of government moral hazard before it comes back to you with shit stains on it out the ATM? The bank exists for that exact reason in todays Liberal degenerate society.  People see money as an Amoral subject and they conflate that idea with what can be done with money as also Amoral.  This couldn't be further from the truth.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:47 | 3127904 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

What makes you think the person withdrawing cash at the titty-bar is a customer and not a dancer getting some money for toilet-paper on her way home from her shift?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:12 | 3127959 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Because dancers make their tips in cash?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:18 | 3127977 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

There's never a guarantee anyone makes anything in tips.  You've never been in that kind of job, obviously.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:36 | 3128206 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

and of course, from those "tips" a dancer/stripper will be paying for her "station" or "pole" to the pimp, sorry, the owners of the club, off the top, before she gets to go buy that toilet paper. . .

no guarantees the dancers make monies at the lesser level clubs, when their expenses are taken into consideration.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:04 | 3128280 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So our resident "womans rights advocate" chimes in with a banal retort without addressing the men in the audience using taxpayer funds (provided courtesy of the Morgue) in ogling them, which is the subject of this thread.

Man...you people are twisted.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:06 | 3128284 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"You've never been in that kind of job, obviously."

No I haven't but I dated a stripper...does that count?

You're a fucking dumbass.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 00:05 | 3128688 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

I suppose dating a stripper implies SOMETHING.  She preferred the pole to your tender ministrations at the time, eh?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:48 | 3128079 spooz
spooz's picture

See, I'd take a liberal degenerate society over a police state any day. Who gets to define hedonistic behavior? You are advocating a police state.  Oh sure, just for those poor unfortunates.  For now.  Slippery slope, my friend. 

And speaking of twisted, your logic has got to be exhibit "A".

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:41 | 3128220 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

Some folks would call a hot-tub hedonistic, so one might have a good basis for some kind of "luxury tax" to be assessed on such a purchase if they really thought the State should be making those determinations.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 01:44 | 3128820 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

Hedonistic behaviour Man you really have to be out of your fucking mind.  What part about that phrase is so unrealistic? What part about hedonism do you not understand?  That means things you should probably feel guilty about getting with the fruits of someone elses labor.  But I get that you had no moral upbringing so I'm gonna spell it out for you like the parent you never had.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCNqKrX1sx8   those being the results of your desire to do what ever you want regardless of what the rules are........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxalkMk7cTM

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:43 | 3127733 spooz
spooz's picture

I was for a 99% clawback tax on the banksters during TARP.  I continue to support much higher taxes on financial gains than on regular income.  And over $250,000 in income, I'd like to see some steep progression. A very small percentage who have gained a very large share of the pie.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:55 | 3127765 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I continue to support much higher taxes on financial gains than on regular income. And over $250,000 in income, I'd like to see some steep progression."

I see.

So you are for or against massive bureacracy & a police state? Somewhere I thought you alluded to the fact you were against it.

Apparently I was mistaken ;-)

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:42 | 3128056 spooz
spooz's picture

I believe the government should provide for the common good, including health care and education and a modest safety net for the unemployed. 

I'm against massive bureaucracy, particularly the kind we got with the Affordable Care Act, where private Insurance interests get to extract rents for paper pushing.

In any case, the bureaucracy part of the safety net doesn't seem excessive and what makes you think I advocate a police state?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-day-federal-programs...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:57 | 3128260 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I believe the government should provide for the common good, including health care and education and a modest safety net for the unemployed."

Now that wasn't so hard to admit to was it? ;-)

So your bluster about a "police state" was just another socialist smokescreen. What you want is frrrrreeeee shit...having THE STATE remove it (whether labor or wealth) from someone else.

Completely fucking typical of you assholes...empower JP Fucking Morgan to skim off the top of the taxpayer (card subsidy) so the "less fortunate" can hang out at a titty bar before he goes home and bangs his ole lady for yet another "living breathing" food credit.

Yes, this will end well.

Later, much.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:28 | 3128327 spooz
spooz's picture

No smoke screen.  One can be for a social safety net and taxing the elites who are unfairly extracting our country's wealth.  Heavy taxes on financial gains, as an example of good taxation, would be a way to redistribute the ill gotten wealth fairly. 

That has nothing to do with my desire to end government invasion of privacy and the creeping police state.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 01:28 | 3128811 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

Thank you Nmewn

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 01:28 | 3128812 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

Thank you Nmewn

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 07:35 | 3129030 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You're welcome sir, I have no use for little totalitarian douchebags hiding behind the skirt of Lady Liberty.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:11 | 3127800 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

You still seem to think I am claiming that there is any propriety on Wall Street.  I agree whole heartedly about what should have been done to every major Wall Street bank in 2008.  Problem is no corporation wanted that because they would lose their infinite source of cheap funding through capital markets and so the politicians you probably voted for did the unthinkable and enshrined moral hazard complicitly with the Federal Reserve right there beside it as always like a good little hand maiden.  Congress and the FED are the progenetor of moral hazard.  It all starts there.  Most people are willfully ignorant of what is being done to them, but that doesn't make them any less guilty because all they know is I'm voting for the guy thats going to give me free shit.  Where said free shit came from matters not to them because they have yet to deal with the consequences which will eventually come about.  They always do, it's only a matter of time.  Look at Rome.  Anyway, your point about the bending the rule of law is probably right, but that doesn't give you the excuse to go out and take up plunder as a hobby yourself because somebody from the government let someone from the upper criminal crust get away with bloody murder.  The only way to stop this system is to stop producing value for corporations and be a small business person who runs a cash only business and doesn't get his money stolen from him  or her to subsidize the moral hazard once every two weeks.  When mister tax man comes to to collect tellem, sorry I have no money.  I spent it all running my business and there is none left.  Don't use banks, don't use their system period.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:30 | 3128013 spooz
spooz's picture

First, I wish there was a way NOT to vote for the duopoly, but we have a two party system.  I choose to vote outside of it, but realize my vote won't count.

When there are two corrupt parties to vote for, both of which are more interested in lining cronies pockets than developing a sustainable economy, why would you expect people to vote for the one that also promises to make things more painful for the growing underclass?  A lot of middle class people are one bad break away from needing help, so the size of that voter population isn't getting any smaller.

And whatever the consequences, they will be less painful if a safety net is in place.  This is for the benefit of our economic stability as a whole.  I wasn't born into a third world country and have no interest in seeing ours become one, despite what the globalist corporate masters and their government cronies have in mind.

Not everyone can be a small businessman.  Putting all your hard earned savings into a business that will most likely fail seems too risky for most and trying to run a cash business can be risky if your suppliers and customers don't run theirs that way.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:30 | 3127413 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

They will end the program when they start buying firearms or ammo.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:31 | 3127416 Abrick
Abrick's picture

Its not that we are against hooker, booze and blow, they just aren't that much fun when everyone can afford them.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:27 | 3127562 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

abrick, you know you are talking about a major disincentive
to a frugal live of hard work and savings powerful enough to bring down the Commies in the Cold War ?

"they just aren't that much fun when everyone can afford them."

We are back at that point why socialism failed on a grand
scale, wrong incentives, no reward for the thrifty, enterprising, hard working, skilled or all of the above.

If being better, stronger,more clever, harder working,
healthier, mating for best genetic offspring etc. is being
penalized, we live in a world of all the wrong incentives.

In fact, we do just that, much worse than the Commies who
lived off the credit left of bygone generations.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:33 | 3127420 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

I spend mine at the 24 hour Asian Massage Parlor. 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:37 | 3127436 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

I just love how some here get there panties in a twist over stupid shit like this. The Post? Really?

The enemy resides in D.C. and nowhere else. Nothing more than another little sideshow engineered by 'News Corp.' to get the idiots riled up and line up behind fuck face McConnell for the next act on Bullshit Theater brought to you by GE,  et al.

Oh wait, that was a Reagan thing. Another sideshow...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:43 | 3127454 Salon
Salon's picture

What is so hard about being consistent?

No corporate welfare, no bailouts, no personal welfare.

There is no inconsistency or division in the ranks.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:57 | 3127483 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

This is a distraction over pennies- nothing more. Having said that, I would like to see MUCH more outrage over the corporate wefare piece of the equation. After all that's where the real money is.

While I'm at it and have a minute, let me HIGHLY recommend the Oliver Stone history series produced by Showtime- most can be found on Youtube. You want some unvarnished history and how it really is? You will find some there in easy to digest pieces. 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:55 | 3127492 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Is this why the Republicrats voted for the bailouts?

Is this why the Demicans support crony capitalism?

The only consistency is the kleptoligarchy.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:57 | 3127769 Salon
Salon's picture

I fart in the general direction of blue team and red team

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:53 | 3127488 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Yes, but we the people have elected these clowns. People tend to get exactly what we deserve and articles like this do a great job in showing how/why we are in our present condition.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:21 | 3127518 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

I get what you are trying to say, but they really don't. There are much bigger fish to fry than most even contemplate. Do me a favor and go spend some time on that series I mentioned above (1-7 are on Youtube) 8 out of 10 just came out. If you feel the same way after viewing these or reading any number of books (People's History by Zinn or Petrodollar Warfare for instance) I'd be surprised. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:54 | 3127633 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Agreed, but still maintain my point above.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:02 | 3127648 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

Ok, but also keep in mind that 'we the people' don't elect anything. If that were true, Henry Wallace would have been elected after FDR by a landslide never before seen and it would be an entirely different country not to mention world. That was not allowed for reasons that we continue to suffer. Instead, we got that stupid little fuck Truman. Enough said.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:07 | 3127662 KickIce
KickIce's picture

That's the point. The people used to elect officiala but have lost the principles/morals this country was founded and as such have lost that freedom.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:28 | 3127706 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

My view on that would be that we have not lost them, they were taken. And now will need to be taken back. This is a tall order but ultimately will have to come to pass. You might see this as semantics where I don't.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:38 | 3127726 KickIce
KickIce's picture

We certainly differ on the the first point.

Question, how do we take something back when most people don't even realize that freedom has been lost?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:11 | 3127799 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

Not sure I know what you mean by we differ on the first point. They were taken by mostly unelected dominent men in the position to do so. How it is taken back is the yet untold story. On a worldwide basis there is some slow progress especially in South America where the American corporate will is being meaningfully rebuffed- it's a start on that front.

Here, in combination with the above, we can hold out some hope that these asshats ultimately will be taught a lesson. OWS was a start but quickly co-opted and more or less dismantled systematically by the police state. Maybe not the next wave or two, but my hope is that the awakening continues until it is unstoppable. It will either be that or we (read: future generations- yours and mine) all will be fighting for our lives due to the on-going destruction of the planet. Boiled down it's all pretty simple- everything we currently call 'normal' is unsustainable and the outcome really isn't a mystery. It really is a small world you know.

I found this semi-enlightening and would like to hear your reaction- https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TFC18pFvo1g#

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:04 | 3127939 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I think we differ because I hold the people ultimately responsible.

Yes, we were taken to the cleaners by unelected people but we allowed our elected officials to write the laws and line their pockets by these same people.

When the bank charter was passed we allowed them to stay in office.

When SS was transfers to the general budget we allowed it by reelection.

Same goes for NAFTA, the CRA, Homeland Security, the bank bailouts, the NDAA, Healthcare, education.....

I think it was either Franklin or Adams that said, paraphrasing, we have given the people a republic, now lets see if they can keep it. Jefferson warned us about corporations along with stressing how important a well educated populace is.

It was a sad day when the likes of Obama got elected and a horrible one when he was reinstated. For the record, any Homeland Security bots can kiss my ass.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:52 | 3128250 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

I think you're right on our differences, but as you mention, enough of the populus is not awake yet. I am no fan of O, but Romney was a complete puke. Considering the 'choices' so be it. The overarching point is the revolving door and the issues you bring up, but we also can't live in the past. All we can do is keep educating those who will listen and have at least half a brain.

Speaking for myself, I can't tell you how excited I got when OWS got started and I'm a 'dreaded' (at least around here) later stage boomer by the way, and will not stay on the couch when the younger folks finally succeed in getting the party started- the sooner the better. For better or worse it's going to have to be them because as I see for myself, (and some here like to point out) a lot of the boomers are assholes and do in fact suck...best of luck to you and yours and keep fighting the good fight.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:12 | 3128294 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Thanks, and same back.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 22:19 | 3128462 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

PS- This talk by Perkins is even better- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fVAifnnlg0 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:52 | 3127486 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Moral Hazard, yet another example.

Bail out the bankers and the bankrupt companies and it becomes hard to blame these EBT card users for following the example.

If you are a middle class working tax paying citizen not on the dole trying to be responsible and save you are the mule that is being whipped. 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:59 | 3127502 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Legalize marijuana(and all select, plant-based organically grown euphoria), and you get the majority of these people off the dole.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:43 | 3128228 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

and paying for licenses, permits, cards - permission! - which is the only reason states are going that route, for more revenue.

either marijuana is a heinous killer Class A drug, or with a few permission slips, it's "medical" - seriously, not so hard to see through that illusion.

none. of. their. business.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:21 | 3127550 JR
JR's picture

Each day brings some shocking new depravity from the popular culture.

A front burner political topic these days is the attack on America’s culture (the war on Christmas, on Christians, on America’s Christian Founders, sexual license, volcanic political corruption, etc). But for those who would downplay the significance of this raging debate, one principle must be remembered. If the Christian culture on which the foundations of America were laid is to be pushed aside, then it most definitely will be replaced with something else.

And it behooves all of those persons who would say it doesn’t matter, or there’s no danger, to identify just what culture is being moved in to take the place of this Christian era.  What cultural subversion is posed to replace the Bible in America?  Is it the Talmud, is it Alex Portnoy, or is it as Time magazine claims, Woody Allen?

For it was Time, beginning in 1970, that was in the forefront of announcing the Jewish takeover of American culture. It was Time that in 1977 crowned Woody Allen as an American genius. These are the findings of Samuel H. Dresner in Can Families Survive in Pagan America? published in 1995.

Claimed Time: “The United States is becoming more Jewish… Among American intellectuals the Jew has even become a culture hero.” Time quoted poet Robert Lowell: “Jewishness is the center of today’s literature much as the West was in the ‘30s.”

Twenty years later, according Dresner, Time repeated the theme, “Jews are news. It is an axiom of journalism. An indispensable one, too, because it is otherwise impossible to explain why the deeds and misdeeds of a dot-on-the-map Israel get an absurdly disproportion amount of news coverage around the world.”

Likewise, Leo Pfeffer of the American Jewish Congress and constitutional lawyer arrived in Philadelphia in October of 1976  to announce the Jewish takeover of American discourse. In his talk, “Issues that Divide: the Triumph of Secular Humanism,” Pfeffer in the words of one critic, “declared victory in the culture wars and announced the Jews had defeated the Catholics in their 40 years war over American culture.”

And then, Professor Stanley Fish birthed political correctness on America’s campuses, authoring an essay in 1992 that announced “There’s no such Thing as Free Speech and It’s a Good Thing Too.”  And “Good” got redefined by the Apostle of Political Correctness as “the will of those in power.”

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:30 | 3127710 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

You don't know the history of the country you so stupidly rant about or else you have a VERY warped christian outlook.

I suspect both as one flows so easily from the other.

 

stupid is as stupid is lead.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:19 | 3127979 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

Nothing delights me more than seeing you two dumbasses at each other's throats.

Go guy!  Get him!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:40 | 3127602 Spore
Spore's picture

"If the bill remains stalled, the state stands to lose $120 million in federal welfare funding."

GOOD!! I hope it remains stalled!!!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:53 | 3127632 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o64Fz-KW1Dk

I can't believe this one did not make it to the award shows.............

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:59 | 3127646 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture


Mazlow III (his grandson) hierarchy of needs:

Sex

Booze

Gambling

Unbelievably wild, kinky, drunken sex with four partners on a blackjack table

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:38 | 3127722 Clesthenes
Clesthenes's picture

Isn’t it strange, the supreme court and justice department, in a staged lawsuit regarding the SSAdmin, both stated that to give money to men would reduce the possibility of them going into vagrancy, banditry, and ill health.  And they both explained that what is done to a breadwinner is also done to his children.

They, obviously, missed a few fine points.  When you give unearned money to men, it encourages them to indolence, vagrancy, banditry and ill health.  They also failed to examine the other side of the coin: when you take property from a man without equal compensation, you drive him to vagrancy or banditry, ill health or indolence; his wife, to prostitution; his children to lethargy, confusion or anger; with none able to trace cause and effect thru too many links.  Taxes are such takings.  Thus, if a man will not abandon his children by his own folly, the government will compel him to do so by the instrument of taxation.

The least I thot of doing was to post a petition on the White House website to “reduce or abolish all legalized impediments to child rearing.”  You many read the full text and attach your signature at this link, https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reduce-or-abolish-all-legal-impediments-child-rearing/XSlhSdLf.

This will tell you the legal basis of the petition, and also lead you to further actions if you want to do more than leave a signature.  But, please, at least do the signature.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:43 | 3127737 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yes indeed, they will multipy simply to keep the name going, there is no need to pay to play in this instance.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:38 | 3127729 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Times are tough now, I just saw a couple dudes walk out the forest with a upsidedown deer, on an old shovel handle. It was uphill too. 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:42 | 3127734 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Sure makes me feel good that some guy is eating Hamburger Helper with his family so he can pay for a loafer to get a lap dance and a banksters Bollinger.

When does he get tired of being a chump?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:48 | 3127749 noname
noname's picture

this story is a bunch of bullshit

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:51 | 3127755 noname
noname's picture

also where is it that a single household can get 200.00 of ebt help its bullshit this just doesnt happen,thats why this whole story is fagricated lies.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:29 | 3127839 Fíréan
Fíréan's picture

Did the government  stipulate or regulate where the money must be spent when bailing out, giving financial hand-outs, to the banking institutions ?

We do know that the money did not go where the government officiialy intended it's use.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:54 | 3127921 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Forward!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:53 | 3128100 57-71
57-71's picture

I seriously doubt that most of these transactions are from the initial recipients of the cards. These many transactions in a concentrated area tell me this is gang/mob driven activity redeeming cards that have been aquired by less than genuine means.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:19 | 3128182 Cman5000
Cman5000's picture

Meanwhile coming to a municipality near you.

BATON ROUGE, La. – Deputies say some juveniles in Baton Rouge could face charges after a massive brawl shut down the Mall of Louisiana.

The fight started at around 6 p.m. Saturday night in the food court.

Chaos erupted as people tried to escape the violence. There were also rumors of a shooting at the mall, making the situation even more tense.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:42 | 3128225 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

That would never have happened in a conservative state where everyone had a gun....er...uh...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:03 | 3128278 sadpanda
sadpanda's picture

It's suppose to be a safety net. Not a fucking way of life. Give them six months to find cheaper housing, cheaper vehicle etc. After that you are cut off. All debt is repudiated; banks and creditors take it right in the ass.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 00:09 | 3128691 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

That's why the cash payouts which are the subject of the article only last for 5 years.  The idea is that it just might take longer than 6 months to learn job-useful skills, liquidate all assets, and find a new and "affordable" place to live.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 00:40 | 3128745 Yohimbo
Yohimbo's picture

another kill the poor scheme....slowly.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 02:50 | 3128880 T2
T2's picture

Money for nothing and your chicks for free!

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 09:01 | 3129110 Element
Element's picture

Well this is clearly much worse than running HFT machines and buying $80 million mansions as the proceeds of crime against, well, everyone.

Can't blame them really, it's just fiat and the system is already fucked and headed for the bin.

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