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Labor Unions Finally Read Obamacare Fine Print, Realize Costs Set To Spike, "Turn Sour" On Obama
It is a well-known fact that nobody in Congress ever reads, or even skims, any law, and especially not the fine print, it passes until long after it has been enacted into law. It appears the same is just as true for the biggest pillar of support for the Obama administration: America's labor unions, whose liberal vote every election is instrumental to preserving the outflow side of America's welfare state. As it turns out, it was the same labor unions who enthusiastically supported the primary accomplishment of the Obama administration in the past 4 years, Obamacare, only to realize, long after it has become reality that, surprise, their healthcare plan costs are about to go up. And, as the WSJ colorfully summarizes, they are now "turning sour."
Union leaders say many of the law's requirements will drive up the costs for their health-care plans and make unionized workers less competitive. Among other things, the law eliminates the caps on medical benefits and prescription drugs used as cost-containment measures in many health-care plans. It also allows children to stay on their parents' plans until they turn 26.
So what are the Unions' demands to offset what they only now realize will push their overall costs higher? What else: Moar!
To offset that, the nation's largest labor groups want their lower-paid members to be able to get federal insurance subsidies while remaining on their plans. In the law, these subsidies were designed only for low-income workers without employer coverage as a way to help them buy private insurance.
Top officers at the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, the AFL-CIO and other large labor groups plan to keep pressing the Obama administration to expand the federal subsidies to these jointly run plans, warning that unionized employers may otherwise drop coverage.
But, but, they can't - that's the whole point, or didn't they read that part too? Doesn't matter - to them it is now unfair, nay "unacceptable":
"We are going back to the administration to say that this is not acceptable," said Ken Hall, general secretary-treasurer for the Teamsters, which has 1.6 million members and dependents in health-care plans. Other unions involved in the push include the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union and Unite Here, which represents service and other workers.
So now that even the unions have understood that Obamacare is one big tax, maybe it is time to reevaluate its arrival at a time when the already strapped US consumer sees taxes rising, and has their savings extinguished.
Employers and consumers across the country will see big changes under the health law, which goes into full effect next year. Insurers will no longer be able to deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. Most individuals will be taxed if they don't carry insurance, and employers with at least 50 workers will face a fine if they don't provide it. About 30 million Americans are expected to gain insurance under the law.
John Wilhelm, chairman of Unite Here Health, the insurance plan for 260,000 union workers at places including hotels, casinos and airports, recalls standing next to Barack Obama at a rally in Nevada when he was a 2008 presidential candidate.
"I heard him say, 'If you like your health plan, you can keep it,' " Mr. Wilhelm recalled. Mr. Wilhelm said he expects the administration will craft a solution so that employer health-care plans won't be hurt. "If I'm wrong, and the president does not intend to keep his word, I would have severe second thoughts about the law."
Wait, no, you mean that in order to get your vote a career politician... lied? Say it isn't true.
So what is an administration that has pandered to every demand for welfare increases ever, to do?
For the Obama administration, holding firm against union demands for subsidies risks alienating a key ally. Giving unions a break, however, would not only increase the cost of the law but likely open the door to nonunion employers in a similar situation who would demand the same perk.
Obama administration officials declined to answer questions about whether union-employer plans could qualify for subsidies under the law. A spokesman for the Treasury Department, which will administer the subsidies as tax credits, said: "These matters are the subject of pending regulations. We will continue to work with employers, workers, consumers and businesses to implement the health-care law."
Under the health law, households earning up to 400% of the poverty level—$92,200 for a family of four last year—will be eligible for tax credits to offset the cost of private insurance. The less a household earns the more generous the subsidy.
And while the political wranging is about to get heated, Unions suddenly find themselves facing a very existential problem:
The Sheet Metal Workers International Association helped push for passage of the health law. Mr. Beall said he still believes everyone should have health insurance, but worries the law is undermining the union's ability to offer coverage.
"If we're not offering our members insurance and pension, why would you want to be union?" he asked.
The International Union of Operating Engineers Local 150 of Countryside, Ill., which represents construction workers and insures about 65,000 people, is also examining whether some lower-earning workers would eventually be better off leaving the union-sponsored plan and instead getting federally subsidized insurance.
"I've told my members, as this evolves, your health care will not look like it does today," said James Sweeney, president and business manager of the local. "I have to cut it back."
What is most disturbing is that even the unions are starting to understand that there is really no such thing as a free lunch:
Central Blacktop Co., a Hodgkins, Ill., road builder that employs members of operating engineers Local 150, provides health benefits by paying $13.45 per hour that each member works, said Joseph Benson, the company's chief financial officer. That averages nearly $19,000 a year per worker.
"Ultimately any increase in expense to the fund is going to come from us down the line," he said.
It will, but not today. Today, the agenda is to just get more.
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+1 great selection.
Thank God the Pharma and health insurance industries were allowed to spike their health insurance premiums, RX prices and Medicare/Medicaid billing amounts back when ObamaCare was first passed.
/sarc
Yeah, I remember getting 30% increases every 6 months for a while, and the reason given was that once Obamacare went into effect they wouldn't be able to raise premiums as easily.
Was just reading some F.Zappa quotes...
.
I think that if a person doesn't feel cynical then they're out of phase with the 20th century. Being cynical is the only way to deal with modern civilization, you can't just swallow it whole.
-Zappa
I can't believe I ate the whole thing.
<Plop plop fizz fizz oh what a relief it is.>
All of you Zappa fans on ZH really need to read Inside the LC. Seriously.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see a brick wall at the back of the theater."
What a man. Up there with Mencken and Bierce, and a better guitar player than either of them.
Seems the dumbasses also wrote a "donut hole" of sorts into the law:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/obamacare-glitch-priced-out-of-...
Reminds me of Cantor's reform of congressional inside trading regulations . . . where he left out trading by family members.
Well with the massive doctor resignation last week, you can have all the insurance you want. If there is nobody there to accept the insurance card it's kind of moot. Weird side effect of inflation is if a professional practice is cheapened nobody sticks around.
Also means medical schools are going to start graduating people that shouldn't graduate and people that were dismissed from the medical profession are going to come back into the industry without watchdogs in the industry. Maybe people will get it after someone close dies of complications or incompetence.
Obamacare has nearly guaranteed the extinction of the medical professional by opening the doors to fools.
OTOH, perhaps the public will call for the AMA's monopolist control of medical education (supply of doctors) and licensing to be eliminated.
Like there aren't a million additional perfectly smart people who wouldn't jump at the chance to serve while making good money . . . even if it dropped 50%.
Of course, it might also lead to humanization of the residency process, which abuses the apprentice doctors like boot camp does marines, for no purpose other than to ensure they continue turning out a certain kind of fanatic.
The argument that the short supply/high wages are necessary to attract and retain the "best and brightest" holds no better for the medical profession than it does for WS, imo.
Well it'll be a hell of a toboggan ride while it lasts!
The residency is part of the trade pact for future generations of doctors. Just as apprentice carpenters, Electricians, plumbers all do the shit work for the first four years of their career it's there for the singular purpose of keeping people on script with the career and the profession.
I do agree the AMA holds far too much hold on the entire medical industry, it is now apparent that even for the clout that they wield they weren't smart enough to hire a skeptical economist or accountant to do the math. The AMA has pretty much guaranteed it's extinction with the increased risk of insurance claims against it in the future.
Unless some laws are passed to the effect nobody can sue for malpractice.
...ever play chess and count the position of the pieces versus the king in two moves. No matter what position the king moves the only option is to lose? That's the American Medical Profession now. Stupid thing is if people think that if they have money they'll find a good doctor. I'm hesitant to say that this will be true unless the rich guy and his doctor are best friends. Otherwise count on the same treatment options as everyone else.
High wages as a physician? My wife was a physician, retired in 2007. She had a full practice as an internist but with some 60% of her practice Medicare patients. After all expenses (including a full time bookkeper to deal with Medicare) her net was under $100K in her last 4 years. Now Medicare pays less and demands more stuff, insurance and all other expenses are rising. If being a doctor is so great, why are so many retiring early or selling out to corporate medicine.
I believe that the AMA's control is deminished, many Medical Schools are not filling their slots. It's like being a lawyer, make it hard to find a job after spending a lot of $ on education for years - reduced supply.
The UK brought in third world docs. It is a total joke. You will have witch docs. The hospital staff is unionized so the hospitals are filthy and dangerous.
Recently I had someone view a office property. They were third world illiterate who will be running training for docs on a delicate but potentially dangerous & common procedure. The procedure is very common but if you screw up it can kill. I had a neighbor die around age 50+. He worked for a city in a professional job with good healthcare. I did not know him. I saw the house for sale and vaguaely heard he had a heart attack. 2 or 3 kids. I later heard he was having this common procedure and the doctor made a mistake and the neighbor died!
This third world person looking at an office was a "doctor" from a third world country who had no clue. Rude and clueless. I would not have them teach 1st grade phys ed. This "doctor" was teaching doctors this prcedure for state certification!!! Just wait to see how bad things will get.
People voted for this and in 2012 he rigged the elections including Dems in the Senate. Any conservatives had their seats stolen.
I've worked with many doctors of all backgrounds. I've been impressed by some and not by most. Like most things. People get bad treatment, suffer and even die by mistake in every system. I don't like that, but that's how it is. It sounds like we both would be interested in stats that would place the deterioration of care that you cite in a meaningful context.
Thirld world doctors may be a problem. If so, look at my assertion about AMA controlling med school seats. My contention is that we have hundreds of thousands of candidates who--in a free market--would make fine doctors. Given the way the selection and training system now works, we're getting a minority who care about people rather than their own egos and money, imo. While we're paying that top dollar.
We should be able to agree on this: Completely open up serious medical school education for doctors in the US (while maintaining appropriate regulation and control over credentialing.) If the market drops MD/DO income from the current average of over $200k, well . . . actually, that's a market problem we shouldn't have a problem with, imo.
I have to agree w/Bob on this one.
Massive doctor resignation? What did I miss?
Open browser in Private/Incognito mode
Go to Google News on US site.
Google "Doctor Resignation".
Each doctor leaving in each area of the US has a soap box.
Thanks for the duckduck go tip, CPL.
Love it.
No problem. Google News is a powerful tool and captures everything (under a minute now I believe).
To find the good stuff that matters, people just need to know how to get around the iron information curtain. It's not just the doctors quitting over this nonsense, it's the nurses and techs as well. None of them signed on for minute by minute diagnosis of every diagnosis because it interferes directly with patient doctor confidentiality.
That's part of it btw, every time a medical professional looks at a patient they have to call a 1-800 number to see if the treatment is allowable under the conditions of the policy. Doesn't matter if it's a quick check up for a cold, brain surgery or a heart attack.
It makes running an emergency room a huge insurance liability. So to my American friends. Don't get hurt, or sick. If you thought it was bad before. The operational requirements and logistics behind the laws are a certainty that people are going to die because of it.
That will be used as an excuse to further close private health care institutions to further attempt to expand the public medical branches which fails horribly. A media call to arms will demand the private health centres improve emergency room response. Even though procedurally that can never happen in a timely fashion. When a medical assessment is done it requires someone talking to an insurance operator...that may or may not speak english that well (call centre hell) and you might get someone on the phone in under an hour.
By that point in time it will be far too late, most of the medical community will have walked out the door. There won't be a strike action. Like Greece, Spain and Italy...most will just split and tear up their medical degrees. "fuck this shit I'm going home" will be the future mantra of the US medical profession.
It's not going to be pretty. Checkmate in two moves.
An 800 number? Granted, there are many different insurance policies with widely varying coverage. Which is why we all know that for the past 20 years medical offices "confirm" your coverage and "check your benefits" before you arrive. Hopefully the doctors explain to the patient how those issues affect their diagnostic procedures and treatment recommendations.
But this is nothing new. Or, from a consumer standpoint, even problematic. If that's the burden the doctors want to assume in their business model. As they have for a very long time . . . they're very focused upon ensuring payment.
I think someone is propagandizing on the frequency of the calls required, however. It's not as though the "insureds" all have unique coverage that creates nightmares in tracking. That's the "group" component that is inherent in insurance of any kind. Groups share common "plans" of standardized benefits. That's just how it is.
Of course, there's the question of how many insurance companies require calls rather than making the info available online these days . . . and how many medical office managers and insurance billing clerks with any experience at all don't already know most--if not all--of it before checking.
Nobody's reinventing the wheel all day long. Even the hired help.
Field reactions beg to differ as this is no longer a test run scenario. The situation is live and it's not going very well.
There is a provision in the guidelines to put the screws to every level of the medical profession except the insurance industry. This is only a matter of waiting to watch it fail and I can promise that no amount of money printed can save an industry once the participants are gone.
Don't get sick. Don't get hurt.
I worked for five years in the insurance industry and I have no love for it. But what you're describing makes no sense to me, either on the insurance company end or the "providers'" end, speaking as a provider.
I believe you're sincere. But I know what I know.
Maybe a doc will step in here . . . although we all know it should be a medical practice office manager to speak with real authority.
The office manager rulz.
I fully expect this to happen. You see from a Marxist point of view physicians are a class that have too much authority. So I am sure once the details of this power grab (err.. I mean healthcare for the Muppets) takes full effect most doctors over 50 will retire or emigrate.
A shortage will follow, to be backfilled by more Indian and Asian medical H1bs. Of course they will not have the influence and the income that physicians currently have. This fits nicely from the corporate point view, kick doctors down a few notches. They make to much money and are to damned independent. Many medical decisions will be removed from their responsibility and turned over to the state.
double post
Ha Ha
Enforce people to buy something (which is out of their control) at gunpoint, which they need.
Yeah, that's gonna really go over well.
What a bunch of retards. They can't seriously expext us to believe they didn't know this was coming. Anybody who paid even a liitle bit of attention knew what was coming. They fucking knew too, but they didn't say anything to the pleebs because they wanted to keep their seat at the table. What a bunch of lying asswipes.
That's it exactly. Labor unions know they have a seat at the liberal table (just the leadership, not the members). They needed to support the bill because that's one of the requirements of keeping your seat at the liberal table. Now they come in, well after it's too late, and feign outrage their memebers are being trated badly.
Cry me a river. Welcome to the party, union memebers. How's it taste? How's it smell? I'm sure your leadership will get this fixed for you. Especially for their "lowest earning" members. They really do care about you little guys. Really.
Even the Catholic Church had their "Hey, wait a minute....." moment before you guys did!
You are both correct. And the worst part, with so many American's so easily mislead, low information, etc, they are gambling that they can get exemptions through executive orders or what have you and blame it on those that pay taxes and generally have healthcare - you know the top 1% and middle class. And if any knew bill is crafted, it will be the middle class that gets shafted again.
The Catholic Church was co-opted by the socialists 50 years ago. Instead of providing the charitable health services to the poor themselves, which they had done pretty much continuously since Jesus died on the cross, they decided that they would get out of the business of actually helping people, and let the government do it instead. This is the story of our times: institutions charged with directly supervising a critical function, decide to outsource it instead; whereupon, they eventually lose control of it entirely.
Of course, the "smoke of Satan" penetrated the Vatican back in the 1960s so no one should be surprised. The Third Secret of Fatima presents a terrifying vision of what may happen to the church in the future:
"After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."
Buckle the fuck up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
June is the 50 year anniversary of the Supreme Court upholding the ruling to ban prayer in the public schools in america... June of 1963... Which is the 50 year anniversary of birth of Federal Income Tax and the Fed...
Connect the dots... What's this shit hole going to look like in 2063 ?
Bingo.
Unions today represent communism, NOT liberalism.
The central banks love corporations and unions "fighting", BTW.
As those on "both sides" go on social media sites and blogs like this to "argue" each side with vigor and spite, even instituting more laws to keep the other side at bay (Communists would shoot the biggest load over "Right to Work", laws) it allows the Central Banks to keep robbing the people (via currency manipulation) while we are at each others throats.
We always question why corporations don't pay their workers more, or offer better benefits. We always question how unions get away with fraud and abuse.
But we NEVER hear the conversation: "Why does a buck not go as far as it used to?"
And if we answer that question and resolve it, then we wouldn't have to be fighting over "pieces of the pie" anymore, and handle these situations like fucking adults.
People turning on Obama? I think you will see a wave that grows in considerable strength on these sentiments as people awake to just how inept he truly is.
too late
see, this is what type of insanity and trouble you can get into when you let OTHERS energize mental third rails and lead you around like a dog.
You're prone to acting AGAINST your best interests.
This clown could not have gotten elected without decades of conditioning to the majority demographic.
Sign of the apocalypse: me agreeing with Trav on something. Plagues of locusts to follow shortly, I'm sure.
Personally, I'm keeing an eye out for some dragons.
"Sometimes I think a few dragons would be good for the Shire" ~ Bilbo Baggins
I think Trav is bipolar. Today is a good day or monkeys just flew out of my arse.
yes, his post here was a thing of beauty
And George Bush being probably the worst president in the history of forever.
TheDems could of put a monkey, a frog, or a rock up there, for the ticket in 2008........... and it would of beaten even the most presitine of Republican candidiate (NOT named Ron Paul).
Hell, they even voted for a (half) black man.
They still won't, however, vote for a woman (there may be hope just yet!).
Inept or all part of the plan, I'll go with B.
and you have the classic con principle where people that get conned are too ashamed to admit it.
Get off the inept and stupid. He knows exactly what he is doing because his people or bosses are doing it. This is all by design. There is no inept, stupid, incompetent, dumb. They know exactly what they are doing.
I think you give him too much credit & power. He's a puppet taking orders that will be richly rewarded.
The unions are stuck with owebummer. What are they going to do, jump into bed with the repugs? lulz lulz lulz
Unions are donating moar campaign money than all the tbtfb combined.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/labor-unions-campaign-finance-w...
TBTF is a small subset of the corporate body. PACs represent a wide range of special interests. The article is about money being funneled through PACs which comes from dubious sources which may run counter to the best interests of the rank and file.
Owebummer will come and go. It's not Owebummer that unions are stuck with. It's the ideology and corruption along with it.
"Trade Unions are a school of Communism." Vladimir Lenin
Who, by the way at the 10th Bolshevik Congress (1921, after the defeat of the White armies with the help of American banker CAPITAL) outlawed all independent labor unions or trade unions, and replaced them with Communist Party cadres. The right to strike was removed, the right to collective bargaining, the right to- well the right to have a labor union. Anyone who complained about working conditions, safety, pay, benefits, or any other labor-related issue was taken away, never to be seen again.
Why the fuck is anyone surprised that Obamacare fucks over working people? WHY WHY WHY WHY???
Because no-one knows their fucking history, that's why.
America, under what shreds of free enterprise and capitalism have ever existed, has produced the best paid workers, the most liberated females, the most upwardly mobile minorities, and the greatest access to higher education.
The tragedy is that Obama is the result of all of these "advances".
sweet
So the Socialists have finally realized that Obama's policies aren't Marxist (pro-Labor/anti-Capital/pro-cronies) but Facist (anti-Labor/pro-Capital/pro-cronies).
They're getting there.
I realized this nation was fascist quite some time ago. Regardless of "party" in "power".
Not there yet though, since they are simply asking for MOAR government to solve another problem that the government caused in the first place.
I always picture these party diehards as capenters that are continually swinging their own hammer into their own thumb while wondering why their thumb hurts so badly. Suckers.
Add the influence by the Fed/Banks, and what you are really describing is an Oligarchy.
Communism=Fascism.
In the sense both mean Tyranny of the State!
When has Fascism been pro-Capital? It's like you missed the part where they confiscate it all at the point of a gun. Like how they are doing at this very point in time...
I swear some of you people never actually think about what it is that you are saying.
People are stuck in the left-right way of thinking. "Everyone knows Socialism/Communism is Left; and Fascism is Right" so they invent endless minutiae to distinguish between them. But there's very little difference, actually; in Socialism, the State takes over the means of production outright; in Fascism, private ownerships is maintained, nominally, but the sheer weight if regulations and laws the State imposes means the owners are, in reality, reduced to becoming middle-managers for State bureaucrats.
My understanding is that after Socialists took over industries they often had to bring back the previous owners/managers (assuming they hadn't already killed them for being counter-revolutionaries or 'exploiters of the working class') to operate things because, of course, the bureaucrats had no fucking clue how to do it themselves.
Nothing a waiver of the wand can't fix.
Doc you forget our media was pounding the people that told them this to begin with. I am so laughing and will have a crown when I get home to celebrate these dumbfucks for thinking they were backing some more free shit for them. I guess they forgot to read the fine print!
Anyone that was against this monstrosity was demonized as unpatriotic, heartless or just plain stupid and did not know what they were talking about. Of course the media will play this down just like the GDP contraction and blame it on the large volume of the law!
Most union workers I know are fucking idiots that believe everything da boss tells them. Now da boss is telling them to be mad at Obama and they fall in line.
Yeah, nows we mad. Obama can't make our dues go up, dats why we voted for em. He's supposed to be on our side. We'll knock some heads.
I say to all union members, learn to read and start thinking for yourself. Maybe you'll find that asshole who got rich off running your union doesn't really have your best interests in mind.
They are zombie robots. A distant relative hill billy is a retired union electrical worker. Total fool who voted for him. Voted for his own eventual death panel. Evil morons.
they will stand in line to board the "boxcar" that takes them to their own doom...
keywords: asshole who got rich off running your union
Read and Think?! Holy Crap! You are asking an awful lot from the folks that couldn't graduate high school, and unionized b/c they are lazy and stupid, and found that threatening their employer in numbers got them stuff.
These are the nation's bottom feeders. You can't possibly expect that they could understand that wages are tied to a company's finances. Seriously, they are only alive b/c of threats and extortion, not because of ability and effort.
Another little tidbit is that employers must now put what they pay on the employee's W-2 forms. Can anyone else see that this is going to lead to any amount over a certain limit being taxed as income? Unions ought to think about that too.
That was McShames proposal, obviously adopted. Even more troubling is just how those employers are going to fill in the blank
Well FM, I just found out.
And this is going to help bring jobs back to America how?
Full time employees for health care only have to work 30+ hours per week. Employers will either cancel employee healthcare, or will reduce employee wages to 29 hours per week. Then hire more part time help. No more OT. No more benefits. But more people working for fewer hours and lower income. It's called spreading the wealth around.
Union finally realized they got screwed by Obama as well. Awkward!
Fool em once shame on you ... fool em over and fucking over again and again and again ... well you had a good run Amerika.
Unions......No Shit Sherlock!
wake the fuck up......
Why that lying sack of shit. We thought we were getting healthcare and we got gangstacare from a globalist technocrat M'Fer.
Duh.
We though we wuz gettin da FREEBIES from 'The Messiah'! Oh my fuck what wrong? boo hoo :(
Once again, things that could've been brought to my attention yesterday !! I told my kool-aid drinking friends you will have Insurance but it will be worthless and very inexpensive.
Ha ! That's great ! Maybe Obamacare is worth every penny of wealth it sucks dry.
Yep, count on the WSJ to provide a measured discussion of Obamacare...
Problem is that americans have no fucking idea how expensive health care is and now it is wake up time...
Yawn....
You are a moron in thinking that any of the media is different. WSJ is Murdoch aka Saudi Arabia. All of TV and Hollywood is shit.
Your ability to misconstrue things is only exceeded by your imagination which is responsible the nonsense that you so often generate...
I am on record here as saying that Obamacare was a horrific bit of legislation which does nothing to address the fundamental issue...
The fundamental issue is insurance period. The very fact that we have insurance has placed an artificial cost on almost all products and services.
Absolutely. Insurance by it's very nature is a protection against the catastrophic. It should not be used on an everyday basis. If we did that then people wouldn't go to the doctor for the slightest little thing. Thus the doctors wouldn't prescribe so much and the number of test would go down dramatically and I believe would also make the doctor have to work more for the patient than the insurance company affectively letting the patient be the beneficiary of better, more thoughtful care. Medication prices could be crammed down because they wouldn't be gouging the insurance companies and there would be real competition. Insurance companies would cease to control the patient doctor relationship and would also have to vie for business and not just be given customers. In other more simplistic terms we need to pull a "George Costanza" move where we do the exact opposite of what we currently do. If it's all wrong now then the exact opposite would have to be right.
Then if needed for the indigent the government could operate little emergency type "doc in the box" clinics to give healthcare to the poor children or elderly as part of a medicare type system. But the hieght of insanity is to continue to do the same thing over and over expecting a different result. The thing is the insurance companies and big pharma and the govt love this system because they are making a kiling and also have all the control over the people.
Flak, I understood early that Obamacare was simply a way for Govt to get a piece of the lucrative healthcare pie, it's that or your 401K, and I think that'll come, too, eventually. 401 O( "oscar") Annuity Govt guarenteed, anyone? And just so you know, we can discuss problems or solutions. As an individual, If I had a 401K I'd opt out and (not use) google to learn the term "junk silver bags" then get that with the difference in my paycheck... I mean, buy FB and AAPL on the dip.
It is about causing a fake or imagined crisis and grabbing control:
Control:
1. Auto industry
2. Banks
3. Immigration/Voting theft
4. Health Care
5. Guns and ammo
6. Food supply
7. Military
8. Media - print, TV, Net and now radio. Limbaugh has caved as well as the rest.
9. Congress. Any dissenters will be driven out or they have family members they can "get" to.
10. Edukayshun - they grabbed the schools first.
Eventually you control everything through threats and intimidation.
Please Flakmeister enlighten me on what media outlet is going to provide a "measured" or objective discussion on Obamacare. If you say the NY Times you are being intellectually dishonest. It's my contention that we have no media outlet that will give an objective discussion concerning any political topic. Hidden and not so hidden agendas everywhere.
You made your bed, now sleep in it! Fucktards.
YEP EXACTLY! Recently I've been having SO much fun telling these simple fuktards right to their face when their paycheck comes in low, or they just heard their taxes are going thru the roof or their insurance is being dropped due to ObaMao Deathcare 'HEY, you bought it and celebrated 4 years ago and said 'Nya Nya Nya neener neener!' in my face, now you OWN it so stop yer bitchin!
Oh so much FUN!
Unfortunately, they help make the bed that most of have to sleep in.
Oh well! I've done all I can since long ago to insulate myself from what I saw coming...sure everyones getting hit but I WILL have my fun MOCKING these morons in THEIR utter misery from here on out now!
I couldn't agree more. I saw this coming and did my best to build up some armor around myself and my family. I'll pop some popcorn, get a comfy chair, and watch these asshats lose their minds.
wow get a grip.. what's the worst that happens?? union workers have to play by the same rules as the rest of the miserable spineless serfs? They won't be worse off.. just like the rest
you are more commie then you know
You got it SheepDog-One. Every year I have to decide if I will attend a family reunion were every single one of my relatives is a leftist moron: No understanding of supply and demand, production and consumption, economic liberty, and Constitutional principals. For the sake of my aging parents and children, every year I go and successfully avoid politics 95% of the time. I really don't want to be among these traitors, but this article is a good indication that by this summer, the majority of them will finally begin to understand the consequences of their beliefs and voting.
Saw a bunch of red shirts protesting Hospital Layoffs on the TV.
As mentioned here, they asked for it. idiots
One thing I've learned from watching Star Trek is to never wear a red shirt.
I learned it from watching Circuit City.
The other thing I learned was Shatner was an overacting fat Canadian. ;-)
And a Hebrew, as well as Spock.
jus' sayin'
Hebrew? Check the DNA.
GEE too bad it took them THIS LONG to realize whats actually going on only after its right up against their nose? IDIOTS!
I guess 'da moneez' had their eyes too dazzled to see simple common OBVIOUS facts!
Forward Baby Forward
When I was a kid, I remember my father always told me, "free stuff, is never free."
Tragic that your fathers truth is no longer being taught.
The union bosses are only preparing a CMA moment when the union sheeple finally figure out they're getting fleeced.
Of course, when your being led down the chute, you gotta figure you're gonna be slaughtered, only humans can delude themselves into believeing that everything is going to be alright.
The union bosses will flush the white and black American workers for former illegals. They will not miss a beat. The bosses always win. If you are an American union "worker" and you speak up - there will be 100 soon-to-be ex-illegals willing to take his place for $5 an hour less.
morons voted for their own death sentence.
can't fix stupid.
Bwahahahahahahaha!
"Death to Amerika!!"
---Barry.
"...and make unionized workers less competitive."
Unionized workers were already less competitive by the very nature of being in a union. Who would want to hire a union employee?
"...and make unionized workers less competitive."
When the hell have they ever, ever cared about being competitive?
Competitive unionized workers
The very definition of an oxymoron.
The fact that they are saying that tells you something.
If Obama gets his amnesty - white and black unionized workers will be screwed. Blacks are already being attacked by Latinos in So Cal. This has been going on for a few years. Blacks will slowly be pushed out of California.
I recall a black concrete construction crew/company. These guys were really good and fast. They could put up a shell on a big home quickly. About 9 months later they disappeared and only Latino illegsl were doing the work.
Hope & Misery.
google Hostess for more evidence
FUCK YOU OBAMA YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT. YOU ARE THE WORST FUCKING PRESIDENT THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER SEEN, AND THAT SAYS A LOT CONSIDERING WE HAD JIMMY CARTER AS PRESIDENT
OH, and unless I forget, FUCK YOU, BLOWBAMA!
Fuck unions. For every 1 that's worth the money theirs at least 10 who aren't worth half. I like the part "we'll be less competitive". HAHA is that a fucking joke? We're now on a level playing field with China and robots and you think you already aren't less competitive? I like the opinion that wages aren't too low, prices are to high. Of course not much can be done about that as the entire system is ready to blow.
And don't forget unions were a major factor in getting Clinton elected. They still praise Clinton! Isn't he the one that signed in NAFTA?
Save me the "40hr workweek speech" im well aware of all that. I'm aslo 'fuk corporate amerika'. There needs to be middle ground and there is none.
Oh and btw most trade unionists I know nowadays are complete fucking wimps compared to the past. And the ones that do have a big mouth are sitting at home. Want to work? Keep your mouth shut and suck this dick. When the hammer comes down these sorry bastards are going to cave like a pile of superheated butter.
why are you a champion of globalization?
actually when the real hammer comes down, the ones that don't live like hermit crabs, and stick together, will be the ones that rebuild in the new normal
Clinton signed it, but Bush started it.
What did Jesus tell the Teamsters before he died??
"Dont do anything til I get back!!"
O-B-A-M-A!!! Embrace the lie, the liar, the prince of deception! We got a man perfect for the job! He solicits to people's emotions, he represents himself in tone as fair, logical and passionate - These character qualities comfort and assure (the feeble and apathetic...The majority) those listening - But his (and his handlers and the media) greatest attribute are their abilities to hide his diabolical intent, his cronyism, his covert tyrannical obsessions of the "Utopian ideal" with dismissive arrogance, while LOOKING presidential. I will bet anyone on the planet that this man won't go away without leaving this country FIRST in absolute ruins (as he uses these skills) while convincing us how much better off we are AT THE SAME TIME)...That's the objective, the perfect candidate for our time!
Now I understand the race to disarm the citizens. Obama knew once the unions figured out they were fucked then the Hoffa gang were going to come out guns a blazing. Fuck 'em. When a large mouth bass hits the first shiny lure he sees do you blame the lure or the bass? The union/bass deserve to get caught but I'm sure in the end Obama will dicate a "catch and release" program for the unions while everyone else will still get fucked.
Anyone see Gabby Giffords speak on gun control? As a survivor of traumatic brain injury (18 years now) I have great empathy for her but I thought it was shameful that she was allowed to vote for Obamacare way back when. She can barely function now. Just think of what shape she was in when it was vote casting time . No fucking way she could read and understand what she was voting on. Yet not a single person questioned the process of allowing her to vote on the basis of mental incompetence. I've been there, I know. I was escorted several times out of my corporate office as I kept trying to come back way too soon. It takes many many years and much pain to come back from a head injury if your lucky enough to recover at all. Upon further review I guess she wasn't working with that big of a mental deficit when compared to her collegues so i guess it may have been no big deal.
In the end the process was a complete farce and when the realities of what they did come to fruition...well maybe that's why Homeland Security is hoarding as much ammo as possible if you believe the reports. One wonder's what the Dear Leader's next move will be.
The wost thing is yet to come. The Progressives are all in and congratulating themselves and the power of the President is stronger than at any other point in my lifetime and the Times or other liberal pundits don't seem to have a care in the world. They don't think the pendulum will ever swing back the other way but believe me it will and when it does some ultra conservative douche will take office and have all this power that Obama has now made future presidents entitled to have. The Times and others will cry foul but it will be too fucking late. By then the Patriot Act will allow a government minder in the form of a drone mandatory for every home in America, well except for the poltical elites of course.
God Bless us one and all because we are fucked. The older you are the better off you are. My poor kids are going to really be fucked by the events of the last two decades.
"Yet not a single person questioned the process of allowing her to vote on the basis of mental incompetence."
I did..... but I don't count.
Me too brother, me too but we never have counted, at least not in my lifetime. Yet when I spoke out against the Bill Nelson blackmail and the process in it's entirety I was labeled a racist yet I voted for the fucking guy because I drank the kool aid and thought he would run Washington differently. I never in a million years thought he would master the Washingtonian process like no other man in history and have it work for the big political machines and lobbyist etc...and not the people. I lost sight of the fact that at the end of the day he was a lawyer by trade and going back to the time of Shakespeare we know the reputation of lawyers. Oh and a couple of my closest friends are lawyers which probably doesn't give me license to cast aspersions but that seems to be what we are trained to say when we take a shot at a group and then try to identify with them at the same time.
It's an old southern thing when you've berated someone for being a complete idiot but in the same breath you utter empathetically "Bless his heart".
The race to disarm has less to do w/Ocare and more to do w/total, planned collapse of the economy and ushering in the NWO.
And they're losing the race to disarm, apparently (for now).
Poetic fucking justice! You voted for it, cocksuckers. Enjoy.
C'mon folks this is an article about labor unions from the WSJ. What do you expect the article to assume?
Well either the union had the epiphany or they didn't. Shouldn't be too hard to check. Or did you read the NY Times and see where the unions were jumping for joy over the deal. If so then yeah you may have a point but the point would be about both papers, not just the one you don't like.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
*deep breath*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
it's especially ironic how many times i was shouted down for telling these same people they're voting against their interests.
'who you gonna vote for, Romney?!', they said. 'you have no other options besides Obama'...
Disclaimer--I did not vote for I'llbombya, for Rob-me, or RPaul. I did not vote. I abstain to avoid the stain.
With that said, do any of you think Rob-me would have been any better? Why all this focus on I'llbombya? Bushmonkey was better? McStain was better?
Like votes are even counted anyway? WTF?
http://news.yahoo.com/gm-recalls-12-415-cars-possible-bolt-airbag-123652...
Since we bailed GM out, can I ask for a refund?
Nope I just sent my GM in the shop (bought in 07 and before bailout) and they are charging me full price to fix a power mirror and some oil lines leaking. Didn't cut me a single break off of the over 1k in repairs. Just over 60k miles and out of warranty.
Here's a short video that will help people to better understand ObamaCare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs
Now can we impeach this CFR coolie?
Perhaps they should have read what was in it BEFORE they fucking threw the cow over the moon?
Meh....
"If I'm wrong, and the president does not intend to keep his word, I would have severe second thoughts about the law."
now go back and read this look into chindit's crystal ball:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-30/rise-americas-lunatic-fringe
with that quote in the back of your mind...
I'm not sure how to take Chindit on that one, but I think it totally sucks. Who is this Chindit clown anyway?
Lumping in the moon landing w/911?
Write what you mean, and mean what you write. If Chindit thinks believing 911 was an inside job is lunacy, he needs to do some serious research on it. Most of the ZH pieces on conspiracy mock it. Are the writers afraid of telling the truth? With so many good readers commenting on the threads, we are doing the work for the writers. I'm getting tired of pulling the load. GW is about the only one writing on this site who has balls enough to tell the truth about conspiracies.
These days, if you don't believe in conspiracies, you're a stupid fucking tool.
Time for some of these ZH writers to man up or STFU. Past time, actually.
To all union people who voted for Obama - I hope you enjoy your lube-less ass raping. I wish you many many more.
@ Semperfi A customer of mine was complaining that NH wants to raise the minimum wage. She said it would probably put them out of business. I reminded her that she voted these morons in. The look on her face was the same look that new recruits get when their heads get shaved the first time.
;) hoo-rah
That's funny. Nice job.
Just go back to grazing you ignorant low information voters!
Our Congressional sessions consist of 535 stooges doing a Chinese fire drill while being smoozed by legions of lobbyists... That's all it is folks... Learn to protect yourselves...
Oooo, and this is just because the caps are being lifted? Wait till they figure out that employers don't have to offer subsisdized coverage for spouses or dependents - and nor will spouses qualify for federal subsidies!!!
Of course, nothing that 0bama can't fix with an dictatorial directive executive order.
You mean we have to pay for it !?
We want moar free stuff !
NEVER confuse a liberal with facts
Oh, a fatal O'Care flaw - it requires every US employee to have healthcare or face a fine. So it is a great jobs program overseas.
Consumers will see increases....Dear Barak, my two (non union) sons have already seen 20% increases in premiums during their non group renewal late LAST year. Fuck Obamacare.
So who said that Obummer actully read it? My guess is his handlers just told him what to do and say ... to trust them.
...and I would argue that Oblahblah's biggest support comes from the media and not the unions. The media are who put him and keep him in office. If the media ever turns on him, then it would be a sign of impeachment within the month.
But the media are betrayers, not the betrayed so they are unlikely to stop pumping the userper.
For as long as I can remember, unions asked their members to blindly vote on contracts that they had absolutely no idea of the said proposals. Same goes for blindly ratifying them.
It appears now they're getting a dose of their own corrupt bitter medicine.
Bullshit. I have read every union negotiated contract I have ever voted upon before my vote was cast. I knew exactly what was in the contract because for the most part, the negotiated items were important to the union members.
You may not believe in the value of unions, but you are not allowed to just make things up.
Me, too, my working partner and I were chosen in our local to carefully read the contract and report.
The problem is the Leadership, they are now communists.