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Guest Post: How Stupid Is The American Public?
The cruelest law of all is the minimum wage. It is the most basic law of economics: if the price rises on a good (ceteris paribus, of course), then less of it will be purchased. Labor is no exception. When you raise the price (i.e., the minimum wage in this case), less labor at the low end of the skill scale will be employed. For a thorough discussion, see here.
In a time when our economy is struggling and teenage unemployment is through the roof (especially minorities), raising the minimum wage is the worst thing that can be done. This price control hurts the most vulnerable in society and those most in need of jobs. Yet the political class knows they can depend upon the ignorance and stupidity of the voting public. By appearing to be compassionate, they gain favor and votes. This move is not compassionate, it is harmful and destructive. There is nothing more harmful to low-skilled workers than raising the minimum wage. If it benefits politicians they don’t care what havoc and destruction they impose so long as enough of the people can be fooled.
The reality is that Government schooling produced this situation of zero to low skills. Now government rides to the rescue by making laws that make it illegal for their damaged output to be hired. No employer will hire an employee that costs him money. Unless the employee has a reasonable chance of contributing more than he costs, he has no hope of escaping unemployment. Unskilled workers are capable of doing productive work, but not at a beginning wage set too high by politicians looking out only for themselves. If the minimum wage is so good, why not raise it to $20.00 per hour or $50.00? Wouldn’t that erase poverty?
The answer is an emphatic no! The higher the minimum wage the more poverty and unemployment results. This “feel-good” legislation will raise unemployment. Sadly, it will also destroy lives. It effectively makes it a crime to higher willing workers with low skills. These are people who deserve better than what they received from government schools. Entering the workforce at any wage would provide the work habits and skills that would enable them to quickly go beyond their entry levels. These low-skilled workers are no different than MBAs who enter at lower wages than they will earn after training and gaining experience.
The tragedy of the minimum wage is that it ruins lives. It condemns many to a lifetime of unemployment, welfare and living a life equivalent to a ward of the state. These “compassionate” politicians don’t care how much damage they do so long as you are too ignorant to see through their scheme. They want your vote. So long as you are ignorant enough to believe they are doing compassionate and generous things, they will continue to destroy lives.
This survey from Rasmussen is confirmation of the appalling economic ignorance of the American public.
54% Favor Raising Minimum Wage to $9 An Hour
Most voters don’t think the minimum wage is enough to live on and support President Obama’s proposal to raise it from $7.25 an hour to $9 an hour. They’re more narrowly divided, however, when asked if hiking the minimum wage will be good for the economy. Read More
With every passing day, the American public makes H. L. Mencken appear to have been more of a genius than he possibly was. His evaluations of the public were merciless. Here are but a couple of his pronouncements:
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
Mencken must be chuckling from his grave at the situation we allowed our criminal class politicians to impose on us. Even he probably could not have imagined how dumbed-down the government has made recent generations. Make no mistake, it is government and its policies responsible. Despite all the blather about education, our criminal class is quite content with having stupid constituents. An educated public would have ridden these crooks out of town on a rail.
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would you be happier if companies could pay $1 per hour? I'm sure that'll provide you lots of ranting room for the "what ever happened to the middle class" diatribes.
If it gives someone the opportunity to earn the $1, and the employee values their labor such then yes make it so. However, I think you will find that there is already an equilibrium floor on wages. Who in their right mind would work for less than $1 (after taxes)? I can make more then that begging on the street, so not a good example to prove your point. However, the floor during the bust also comes with a cap during the boom if you allow Gov't into the negotiations. Can't have just one.
I can make more then that begging on the street, so not a good example to prove your point.
Successful beggars can make more than a LOT of jobs would pay. But it's work, and not everyone is especially good at it. It's basically a sales job.
The thing is, most folks are creatures of habit who like *consistency* in their lives. Getting up and going to work in the same place every day is MUCH more appealing for the majority of people than waking up and having no idea how they'll pay for a meal that day.
Government only enters the picture when that vast majority demands it.
@Alien - IQ,
You think you argue a noble cause? To get hung up on a mandatory number that remains outside of the math of "services vs. demand", is like arguing that more taxes taken out of your check provides more wealth to those it is taken from - Which is a Barrack Obama theory (You didn't build that..But you're enrcihed by it!). SO, now that we know who you support and that your as ignorant as a rock - DIE!
Anger issues Lew, be sure to deal with your anger issues.
You motherfucking idiotic putz. You are obviously incapable of getting your small mind out of this preposterous left/right/dems/repubs/red/blue paradigm.
You know who I support? Who's side I'm on? Motherfucker, you don't know me and you don't know shit. The only thing your post makes clear is that you couldn't find your own cock with two hands and a fucking map.
FUCK YOU TIL YOU BLEED BITCH.
Unfortunately for this argument, there are already minimum wages guaranteed by the oligopoly for those at a very high level. So the question is not, should there be minimum wages, but instead, why are high salaries guaranteed by our Stalinist economy for those who keep the regime in power, but no guarantee of liveable wages for those who keep the Stalinist economy "functioning"?
Doubtless the author is one of those who have a guaranteed minimum wage at an unjustifiablly high level.
Off with his head.
I was shocked recently to see the leader of a Native American activist group come out against the minimum wage hike. Not only does this reduce employment opportunities, but it will also raise prices for the poor who need to shop at places that can only pay minimum wage. Those extra employment costs will be passed on to the poor people who shop there.
This sounds like class warfare: the FSA v. the working poor. Dear God, the elite have nothing to fear!
Destroying lives and America is exactly Obama's plan; he announced it in 2008 and he is trying his best to deliver
Trying his best???
Hell, he's succeeding beyond anyone's wildest nightmares!
When 'americans' start to push forward the plight of minorities in 'american' societies, you know what the goal is.
The political class is the servant to the King class aka We The People aka the 'american' middle class.
The policies set by the political class do not have to benefit people outside the middle class.
Guess what? for the minorities this propagandist author refers to, they do not belong to the middle class.
We The People is aware. We The People know what policies are best.
But as 'americans' enable each other, there will always be propagandists like that 'american' author to spin and distort.
Oh yeah, the "middle class", who makes the rules to their benefit, will benefit immensly from this.
Thanks, I needed a laugh!
+1
pods
Of course the middle class will benefit from that. Any raise in wages is going to be absorbed by middle class businesses (either corporations or businesses owned by the middle class)
It favours more concentration of wealth toward the middle class.
Wages are on the COST side of the business ledger.
Maybe I will go tell my boss that if he quadruples all our salaries he will be loaded!
Arguing with you is like hitting the fat kid with a dodgeball. Funny at first, but then you feel bad about it as you think about it.
Don't you have a website to hack or some IP to rip off?
pods
none of the fat kids are working for the chicoms, keep hitting him.
When 'Chinese Socialists' start to push forward the plight of minorities in 'socialist' societies, you know what the goal is. They want to keep the indentured socialist proliteriat from leaping off factory buildings and creating public disorder.
The Political class is the servant to the Mandarin class aka "Chinese Citizenism" aka the 'Chinese Urban' middle class.
The policies set by the political class do not have to benefit people outside the middle class.
Guess what? for the minorities this propagandist author refers to, they do not belong to the middle class. They belong toiling for the benefit of their betters.
"Chinese Citizenism" is aware. The Mandarins know what policies are best for all!
But as 'Chinese Citizens' enable each other, there will always be propagandists like that 'reactionary' author to spin and distort.
Long Live the Party and it's Capitalist Partners.
/there fixed it for ya. sarc off.
So long as the fed is creating inflation the min wage has to keep up with it or simple math tells you the poor get poorer.
In other words it is not the min wage that is the problem it is the banker created destruction of money that breeds these kinds of reactions
The poor are getting face fucked into poverty.... a minimum wage that is less minimum isn't going to stop it.
'American' political personal exists to serve the middle class.
You arent middle class if you are paid the minimal wage.
A raise in the minimum wage is a pay cut for anyone above it.
pods
Nah. It allows middle class oriented businesses to sell at a higher prices goods=> more concentrated of wealth toward the middle class.
I can almost feel your stupid coming through my screen.
pods
But if you raise the minimum wage it's not the minimum anymore.... wait... what?
most cant;
read very well
write very well
add-subtract
grow a houseplant none the less a garden
skin an animal
start a fire
butcher anything
fix anything
comprehend anything
shoot a weapon
cook fvkall
nope we are seriously fvked.
Who is he callin stupid? They should raise the minimum wage to $50/hr so i could be rich!!!
This is probably one of the dumbest articles Ive ever read on ZH...
In many regards and perhaps even at it's core, ZH is just like any other "financial media" outlet. Always for the corporation and against the workers. The irony (or contradiction) is that they simultaneously devote a lot of time bemoaning the loss of the "middle class". It's tragically comical really.
Please enlighten us to which societies that maintain minimum wages higher than ours have less poverty or fewer people living on government subsidies.
there is nobody. amerika is the most wonderfullest most happiestest most freeists most exceptionailsts most mostests of the whole widesests woldests.
Alien, you cannot mandate prosperity or even survival in law. Just because we have some crooked sob's running things sure doesn't mean that anything they might "give" us will do anything but make us poorer.
I agree that it's crooked SOB's running things. I guess we just disagree on who they are. You seem to think government is running the show, I contend that corporations are running the government.
Within the facsist regime we ave now....there is little difference..
government facilitates the oligarchs, without fixing the former we'll never come close to dealing with the latter.
Can you be more specific or would it waste your time cause we be to stupid to understand? Dumb because it is too obvious or because you dont agree?
shut up Obama
I think you are a dick, but damn, that was funny!
"Stupid is, stupid does" - Gump
With that, the public is full fucking retard. These govt. Tit sucking voting pricks that make up the fucking majority of voters would cut their fucking dicks off if Obama or fucking Cramer told them to do it. Fucking idiots.
No doubt not a one of those ill educated peons could mount a scintillating and incisive rebuttal to match your exquisitely erudite exposition.
Too much common sense. The world cannot tolerate such insolence.
This is why Dr. Ben Carson is concerned.. we have not the brightest crop of folks these days..
Good title...it should make for a blockbuster movie.
Sigh...
More propaganda to support the job creators... God, I'm getting tired of this.
Evil government schools... wash rinse repeat.
Can someone get a new songbook, this one is about done.
The best thing I learned in public school was when they taught me that when I get a loan, the bank does not actually lend me money, but creates it at the time I sign the note. And I get to pay them for this miracle of legal counterfitting.
pods
raising minimum wage is a distraction from real issues. its that simple.
and if Bernanke will agree not to put a minimum value on the MBS paper he is holding then we can all get along, people flipping burgers will be able to buy $5000 houses and the bankers will all go broke.
The American public has got to be the most insulted and abused society in the world. Every know-it-all spills one line of insult after another............................................................................. endlessly.
Just shows what a bunch of lossers third worlders really are.
Do you mean the 3rd worlder's living in the US ?
I'm sure you've noticed that those "earning" the "maximum wage" in the US also have massive help from the govt: Jamie Diamon, Lloyd Blankfein, and others who employ lobbyists to "buy" votes.
ding ding ding.
people foam and froth at the mouth about not being able to live on min wage but all such people have to do is start spitting out children for the nanny state to take care of, problem solved.
double tap
I can see the logic behind implementing some price and wage controls, and would sympathize with the motivations behind them as good public policies, and might become necessary in a certain circumstances. What I have a big problem with however, is painting the policies as black or white, denying they have any intended or unintended consequences, not realizing that even the best policies follow a convex utility function with heavy diminishing returns/increasing costs.
Maybe if we were honest and upfront about the costs and consequences, somehow decided they were acceptable, and defined the when and where those policies can be reversed or nullified, we might be closer to good part the necessary evil that is public policing.
And for those whos productivity cannot justify the new minimum wage, they will become dependent on the State.
Milton Friedman destroys the minimum wage --> http://youtu.be/ca8Z__o52sk
Americans aren't stupid they're just not nearly cynical enough.
We've gone soft as most have grown up in Suburbia in the boom times when things were good.
We're patriotic, optimistic, and naive because we don't want to believe that things have gone to HELL.
I believe skepticism is more valuable than cynicism. Being skeptical leads one to question and being cynical leads one to depression.
Good point.
Skepticism +1
Cynicism is the refuge of the disappointed optimist.
Despair is the refuge of the disappointed cynic.
Suicide is the refuge of the ambitious desperate cynic.
Thankfully, I'm lazy.
Hmmmm, Monty. As in Monty Python?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49c-_YOkmMU
While I agree with the article in theory, as long as you have the Bernank inflating away the currency like he is it doesn't work. The stupidity of the American sheeple is that they don't look to see where the real problem lies.
Gay marriage?
Negroes?
zygote personhood?
I suspect that a few pennies more in minimum pay is a nothingburger for most potential employers. Obamacare, reporting requirements, OSHA, and whole host of other impediments to new hires are likely much stronger disincentives.
"... all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily (and) adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal.
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
-- H.L. Mencken July 26, 1920, wrote in The Baltimore Sun: " We acheived that in 2000. And are still working on improving it.That already happened when W took office. So, your point is??????
George Bush was the guy everyone wanted to drink beer with.
Why do Americans judge their politicians on how likeable and sociable they are?
Johnson was probably the best US president of the modern era, nobody comes close to the following achievements:
1963: Clean Air Act of 1963[138]
1963: Higher Education Facilities Act of 1963[139][140]
1963: Vocational Education Act of 1963[141]
1964: Civil Rights Act of 1964
1964: Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964
1964: Wilderness Act
1964: Nurse Training Act of 1964[142]
1964: Food Stamp Act of 1964
1964: Economic Opportunity Act
1964: Housing Act of 1964[143]
1965: Higher Education Act of 1965
1965: Older Americans Act
1965: Social Security Act of 1965
1965: Voting Rights Act
1965: Immigration and Nationality Services Act of 1965
1966: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
1967: Age Discrimination in Employment Act[144]
1967: Public Broadcasting Act of 1967
1968: Architectural Barriers Act of 1968
1968: Bilingual Education Act
1968: Civil Rights Act of 1968
1968: Gun Control Act of 1968
Look at what LBJ got through the hill and all he will be remembered for is some crazy fucked up war.
At least its easy to see which side of big gov line you stand. Is there anything Obama can do for you while he's in?
No you guys have missed my point.
I don't believe in the stuff he did. That's his agenda.
But I admire his political ability to get that much stuff through. The man had more political prowess than anyone.
He was the most politically talented president by far. Even if you don't agree with his politics his ability is unquestionable.
Plenty of other guys had good ideas and fuck all talent/ability/prowess. They were shit politicians.
The President doesn't write laws, though. If you just want to evaluate someone on how effective he was at "getting shit done," both Clinton and Dubya were amazing.
It was just that most of what they "got done" was shitty.
I can make a lame man blind, you know.
LBJ also had the recent memory of what happens when people cross him.
As an aside, I really would not be putting forth that power grab as an accomplishment.
(unless of course I missed the sarcasm)
pods
That Johnson feller sure knew how to sign his name.
wow. you sure do love government.
Whoever wrote this post is also an ignorant fucktard! The real situation lies in one statement: Job Quality Vs. Job Quantity
Raising min. wage = better job quality = less jobs
Lowering min. wage = more jobs = shittier jobs.
Growth is needed to have a nice supply of good quality jobs. Raising or lowering (or eliminating) min. wage doesn't do shit in regards to creating growth!
"Raising or lowering (or eliminating) min. wage doesn't do shit in regards to creating growth!"
Exactly...that is why there should ne NO minum wage laws.
If we were living in 1900 right now, and a Carnegie employeee heard you say that, your ass would have been beat!
Min. wage garrantees job quality (in regards to wage.) - otherwise, greedy capitalists would fuck you over with $1/hr shit wages, no matter how much inflation there is.
Greedy capitalist do hire people at $1/hr, they hire them in China, India, Taiwan, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam... The list is a long one.
The guys in the US who used to earn $7.50/hr now earn $0/hr and they qualify for welfare which raises demand for higher taxes.
Good point, but still not a justification to eliminate min. wage.
Growth + min. wage = Good economy with happy people.
Growth + No min. wage = 1% living like kings while 70% live in poverty.
Wealth seems to me like a pizza pie. If it stays the same, but you give out more slices, people aren't satisfied because they got less than expected.
Now, if the slices were bigger, then some would be satisfied, but then there are others who get nothing.
The only true solution is to set a standard slice that satsifies, and make the pie bigger.
But rising the min wage from $7.50/hr to $9/hr will mean that 85% of those people go from $7.50 to $9.00 but 15% go from $7.50 to $0.00
Also the people already stuck on $0.00/hr are stuck there even longer as any work that generates their employer a return of $8.00/hr is no longer economically viable.
It is a fatal policy for the unskilled entry level workforce. So who is it supposed to help?
and those 15% of entry level workers would get rehired/wage-raises to $9/hr if the "wealth pie" was growing enough.
And because there is no growth, I agree with you. - It is a win-lose situation.
That's why growth is so important! (though almost no one in power knows how to create growth these days, which is why we don't have it.)
People "in power" don't create growth.
The only tool the authorities EVER had for stimulating the economy was to lower interest rates.
Well guess what? Interest rates are 0%.
The only way to grow an economy in this day and age is via a baby boom, and a baby boom stimulus has 20 years of lag built into it.
That's also why developing a marketable skill set is so important so that you aren't a drain on society one's whole life. If you are an adult making $9/hr for anything other than a temporary or chosen amount of time, you are a loser and need a serious talking to. Hell, you can wait tables and make at least $15/hr unreported tips if you are least semi competent and show up. Work and life skills are the problem not the wage.
Stupid enough to elect a crook in Chicago at 65%.
Stupid enough to vote for Obama
Stupid enough to beleive anything that comes out of Washington
Stupid enough not to hold them accountable.
Never underestimate the stupidity of humans.
"How Stupid Is The American Public?"
They elected Barrack Obama to be President. That should end this discussion!
people get the leader who they deserve.
Sadly, electing McCain/Palin in '08 would've demonstrated the same level of idiocy.
You know, just MAYBE there could be a structural problem.
When people on a substandard wage fall ill or otherwise forced to retire, who picks up the tab for their welfare - certainly not their employer, either their families or the State will have to stump up. In this way the misers are subsidized by the higher rate tax payers.
In England, before 2007 the best the cognitive elite/top 100% could muster was 1% growth. All that consilidation and 1% growth to show for it. Now when the minimum wage was introduced the economists gave us scare stories that it would create an immediate exodus of business. Far from it. Barely a whisker on any graph you can show.
All that we do by dropping the minimum wage is race to the bottom then find out our own people can no longer afford basic services and goods - it will hasten, deepen and perpetuate the collapse. We don't want parity with China, these people feed their children on cement and build their bridges out of baby food. We want a free trading zone with the US and Europe, people who play by pretty much the same rules as each other.
Then push for protectionism, not fake wages. If you are concerned about those who are ill or retired falling on the taxpayers back, worry about the unemployed who already qualify for two years of unemployment. We can get by with some of this fairytale bullshit when we have a growing economy, but from where we are at now you might as well be suggesting we cure hunger with eating bullets.
Minimum wage is only bad on the surface. But what it does is that it keeps the illegal immigrants coming, and as soon as amnesty is passed, the special interests of the DemoCommieNazicrats will be expanded. And that's how it works.
Spot On.
My first paycheck was earned at age 16 working for a landscaper. I no longer see many 16 year olds sitting on the back of landscaping trucks. Maybe they are playing computer games and versing up on how to apply for taxpayer subsidized student loans since they never had the need or opportunity to compete in the workplace and save money for college.
Check with OSHA. I believe it is illegal to transport workers in the backs of trucks. Around here, they used to pay children as young as 12 a quarter a pint to pick strawberries - and the kids loved it - and yeah, it was good for them. Do that today and they'd toss you in jail. Some employment laws make sense. Many do not.
They can make the minimum wage whatever they want. What is really needed is minimum HOURS. 32+. Full Time with benefits.
Fuck Obamney Care.
The minimum should be what one is willing to work for. During the last depression many dropped out of school and worked for a $1 a day. But the market was free and allowed them to survive on that. What would the unemployment rate be today if we didn't have a minimum wage? I am certain some workers would be willing to take whatever they can get just to put some gas in the car and food in their kids stomach. Instead, we make it cheaper to hire undocumented workers. We manipulate the economy which has halved our purchasing power in just a few years. Obama doesn't care if the minimum wage increases. He wants the republicans to strike it down so he can come back and blame them. Those making minimum wage will have an uproar, while failing to realize that Obama has already cut their pay in half. When Obama took office one could take an hours wage of $7.25 and buy four gallons of gas. Today you can buy less than two. One could buy ten pounds of chicken thighs. Today you can buy three.... The debate should be about a steady dollar. If you made $7.25 an hour 100 years ago you were in the top 1%. If the Federal Reserves mandate of maxinum inflation was efficient why are we debating about $9.25 hour wages?
I did my share of minimum wage jobs, but didn't stay at that pay grade for long. My fellow employees were content on doing the least expected and their laziness kept them at minimum. I worked my butt off and would get the raises and promotions. I can only think I would have earned even more if my employer wasn't stuck paying a minimum for the rest of his labor. Sorry, but some workers are not even worth paying $2 an hour. Take the retarded guy bringing in the carts at Walmart. You know he has a caretaker. He is living with Mom. Why should he be getting $9.25 an hour to push carts? Let Walmart hire five retarded employees for the same price. They have enough money to buy a new video game while Mom gets them out of the house during the day. A win win for all.
Those aren't retards...
They're college loan applicants.
Granted, a fine line...
“I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well-administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.” – Ben Franklin
From a broke goverment, like they give a fuck about the poor. Increase the min wage and you increase income tax receipts. That is all they are thinking about. If it was really to help the poor they could just easily exempt current min wage from income taxes.
How stupid is the poster? A: VERY!
Even Henry Ford knew he had to pay his workers a living wage if they were going to buy his products. The US minimum wage is the lowest in the developed world. Raise it!
Model T cost $500 in 1914. Using the governments official compounded inflation calculator, that is equal to $11,500 in todays money.
Still cheaper than a 2013 sedan today.
REALLY???? What about China?
As a small business owner, I had 6-8 part-time employees I was paying minimum wage to. Now I have 1 part-time and 1 full time...... I can't raise my prices or customers will not come in, in fact I've had to offer more specials to entice customers. If minimum wage is raised again, All employees will go and I will cut my hours so I can manage it all with NO employees......
I have to match taxes taken from employees checks..........I NEVER GET THAT REFUNDED!
Yeah, but they also were forced to buy brand-new Ford cars with the higher wages, so Ford could have a huge presence on the roads. Workers found driving the competitor's vehicles were tossed out on their asses.
billwilson yeah that, rasie the min wage and we will al be rich right????
Obama does not care. It has nothing to do with creating jobs just creating more democrat votes. If they are laid off because of it, great, he will just send more dependency.
Reading the first paragraph is enough to want to stop reading.
I could care less about minimum wage but the agrument to suggest if the price of something goes up then you'll buy less FULLY IGNORES necessity.
Do we stop buying salt? Do we stop buying gasoline to get to work? How about corn, wheat, water, electricity.
Yeah, we get it, if prices go up then things can suck. But don't crerate arguments in a vacuum ignoing Mr. Bernak's obvious inflationairy tactics on everything not anchored down. Well, and that too.
We cannot mandate prosperity anymore than the Fed can make us rich by printing. We are in a world economy where we MUST compete with the lowest wage, highest productivity work force in the world, where ever they might be. They only way to change this is to adopt a protectionist trade policy that does not allow imports to undercut our domestic prices. Anything we do to artificially prop up wages will hurt us even more in the long range. We can't afford to be France, set back on our heals and simply say, "it is the French way" and expect anyone to pay us what we think we are worth in the marketplace. Our labor, just like your ounce of gold, is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay you for it, or else you keep it to yourself. Or do you want the government to set a minimum price on your gold too?
Just raise it to 17.00 an hour and be done with it.This nominal increase shit is worse than stamp prices.17 should nail it.
When Obammycare gets implemented for real next year, most minimum-wage types will be cut back to 29 hours a week so employers will not have to pay for "health" care. The 25 percent rise in minimum wage offsets the 25 percent cut in hours/pay. End result: same yearly pay, no bennies, and an extra day off each week. Oh, yeah, and the workforce will be beaten just that much harder to make up for the loss in productivity.
Thank you, Father Obammy (whispered reverently while groveling in the mud at His feet).
Look on the brightside: unemployment will drop. Employers will drop all workers down to 29 hours. But for every five workers they now hire a new one to make up for the difference in total labor. Then those new 29 hour workers can be forced to spend their money on insurance, while it now becomes more expensive and less options are available.
Haha, everyone makes a stink when their is talk of giving the little people a few extra dollars so they can buy crap at walmart, but no one ever points to how much money bankers print, loot and steal out of the economy. If this convo were to really take place, I guarantee some heads would roll.
How stupid is the American public?
Stupid enough to elect and re-elect a Marxist during a depression merely because he was black and "it would be cool".
Groundhog day. We are just repeating the "great depression" with a different President.
Very stupid.
Next question.
How stupid? This stupid:
8% Congressional approval rating
92% of incumbents re-elected.
I weep for my country.
As a business owner of a manufacturing company, labor is one thing I can't afford to go without. An increase in the minimum wage will not mean I can't afford it or will refuse to hire someone if I need more help. We pay better than that anyway, like most companies should.
I'm sure people like this think slavery was a great idea too, except for the fact the slaves needed to eat. That would also cost too goddamn much.
It depends on the worker and the work. There are workers who are not worth $5 an hour; most of those are unemployed. We also tend to forget the nonwage cost of employees like unemployment insurance and health insurance. Those people who have spent most their lives around skilled labor don't have a clue about unskilled labor. I spent most of my working life surrounded by skill workers it was only when I got into organization wide management that I spent much time around unskilled workers.
An example is a retail store where you almost have to have at least 1 clerk. When the minimum wage goes up they will pay 1 employee in order to keep functioning or close down. On shifts where they now have 3 clerks raising the minimum wage may cause them to cut back to 2 employees.
"It is against the law to charge less for your labor than $9/hour." That is just as valid a description of the min wage law.
No none ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the Amerikan public.
They may not be stupid. An IQ of 100 is about right; so the problem lies elsewhere. Personally I feel that most people don't won't to admit how illogical their sacred cows are. I think the topic has been covered here: cognitive dissonance.
Bull---fucking----SHIT. If there were no minimum wage laws, the cocksucker corporations that run this dump would have us all working for 2 cents an hour. Then again, that would bring back some of the jobs that have been sent to third world shitholes, so maybe we should let the omniscient "free market" decide for us, eh?
Personally I think a maximum wage would be the best idea.
"us all"? Who is "us all", would that be you? No one except mentally retarded people work their entire lives at minimum wage. People quickly advance through it as soon as minimal skills are learned.
Free loaders, who occasionally take a job to satisfy their social assistance "looking for work" requirement, only to go back on the dole as soon as they can - these are the only people who go through life making minimum wage. And they should be food for my dogs.
The market doesn't decide...you do.
The same principle applies when you go to the store. Do you buy the $20 lb. meat or the $4.00 lb. horse hamburger.
Last time I looked I didn't see IBM vans hijacking illegal aliens outside Home Depot to fill vacancies.
You think you're worth $50/hr. and the job pays $10/hr.?
You don't apply. Someone else will.
Simple. They don't owe you anything.
A minimum wage creates a barrier to the unskilled to gain experience and expertise to better their position and hurts those who need the most help.
Hey Tylers, stop the minimum wage bashing already. Businesses use it as an absolute, in terms of how much they're prepared to pay someone to fill all kinds of vacancies. Why pay someone even $10 an hour when the law allows you to pay less and get away with it?
IF $9.00 / hr is too much to pay someone, your business isn't a business. It's a sweat shop.
X is the minimum wage
Y is the number of employees at that wage
Z is the cost for me to automate the job those employees perform
If X*Y > Z, they have no job at all. End of discussion.
When robots can do your job for the cost of the electricity needed to power them, that's the end of your job.
I don't feel guilty about this at all. If those people didn't give a damn enough to improve their minds to the point of being worth employing, why should I care?
This is a trick question, right?
If minimum wage is so bad, why does everyone demand being paid WELL ABOVE minimum? Shouldn't that kill the economy?
a minimum wage is a great idea....if dictated by labor instead of .gov. since labor is too stupid to do it's own bidding, from the dumbasses working for retail and service jobs while applying for food stamps to the skilled it, engineering, accounting,etc. and semi skilled factory workers who complain about outsourcing to the construction worker complaining about illegal aliens they all deserve to be treated like shit. i bet i could advertise a job paying 5 bucks an hour and have a line of applicants down to the next block.
if you(labor) want good paying jobs don't think a passive fag showing like occupy will do anything for you. you will need to dornerize en masse to get what you want. look up the usa labor movement for a tutorial. in the meantime, i have 50 jobs paying 5 bucks/hour cash i could create this afternoon. you want one?
Keep raising it. As a computer programmer who automates dead-weight out of the labor force, you drive up demand for my services and therefore the cost as well.
I don't give a fuck if all the plebes who want it starve. They are only hastening what my work was destined to accomplish anyway.
I'll bill a company $30k so they can fire 5 minimum wage peons. Now I'll bill them $45k so they can fire 10.
All demand is elastic in the long-term. Even food as the poorest starve. They asked for it.
That's ok if you junk me.
Remember: I make your life cheaper to live.
not really. you cheapen life because you are unable to quantify the intangible value of the productivity influence the job itself has upon the aggregate economy as it circles back around to the company you are analyzing. the classic example is walmart in many case studies where they have cannibalized the local economy to the point of reducing the amount of local money lower than the point it needs to support a store and having to close the store.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_loom#Social_and_economic_implications
Aren't you glad your shirt didn't cost you $150?
I don't ship jobs overseas, so your argument doesn't apply.
It boils down to this: I would prefer that the minimum wage were eliminated completely.
If this is the route to revolution (mass unemployment), then so be it. I have no pity for those that try to hurt others for their own benefit. Let them starve.
It's the same brand of schadenfreude that made me laugh when this hit the wire:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Not-Affordable-IRS-es...
Instant. Karma.
I will be there to protect the employer. Most of my customers are small businesses that can hardly afford the people they have. For a small upfront cost, I've saved them countless hours of labor that they would have otherwise needed to pay for.
Ask yourselves a few questions.
Who makes minimum wage? Can all of those jobs be shipped to china?
McDonalds restaurant workers- can these jobs be offshored?
If they get a raise- what will McDonalds do?
If they raise the price of all meals by .25 cents to pay for increased labor costs: will that kill the business? Will they have to lay workers off after they increase wages- even though they will be able to raise prices by a few cents per item to cover costs. Will consumers continue to consume McDonalds when it costs a few cents more?
McDonalds prices are going up regardless if the minimum wage increase or it doesn’t. IE is there anything that costs a dollar on the dollar menu- or does it all cost 1.30?
What will the McDonalds employees be able to do with a 20% raise- where will they spend that extra 20%?
Will that extra cash in the pockets of McDonalds workers lower how much they earn on food stamps?
>>If they get a raise- what will McDonalds do?
http://econfuture.wordpress.com/2011/06/05/could-fast-food-automation-re...
Ever seen the interfaces these employees use? It's already written for someone who can barely read. Turn the monitor/youchscreen around to face the customer, strip the privileges out of the interface, eliminate the cash drawr, and fire the guy who used to operate the machine.
Simple.
And why overpay American programmers like you when the guys in India do it half as well for a quarter the price?
Good question.
I'm not claiming imunity to the bullshit that is foisted on us.
Also, half-as-good is a stretch.
The Indians subcontract to Pakistan.
The Pakis sub to Vietnam.
That's as deep as I've personally seen the chain go.
We'll be the last American profession standing.
We'll be the last American profession standing.
Nah. Entertainment is our Alamo. Teevee and movies.
JP Morgan Chase says "Chase What Matters" in their commericals. What they mean is "Chase Your Tails While We Burn $100 Bills". Everytime those %^&#*@ commericals come on with that little chime "keep on movin on keep on movin on" I feel my brain swell.
H Ford said one interesting thing in his life : I pay my workers more so they can buy my cars.
That is a basic tenet of capitalism and economic aggregates : consumption if sustainable feeds prosperity; if sustainable...that's the conundrum.
Its sustainable if its local and if its competitive with exogenous sources, or if those endogenous sources have something valuable to exchange that protects their endogenous production and living standard; keeping in mind trade avoids societal ruptures and wars.
No nation can be totally autarcic, its not in its vital interest; it'll die and shrivel or be totally incapable of resisting invaders. That's history. Trade is like acquiring the ability to fight microbial and viral attacks from outside. Its vital for survival.
The whole question is finding balance between endogenous and exogenous production. Until humanity becomes one.
"Until humanity becomes one."
I believe they're ahead of you on that one and are working on it.
Seems to be coming a bit unraveled in Euroland at present but not from lack of trying.
Damn humans.
good points. the definition of sustainabilty must be expanded in terms of competitiveness. there are two real world examples, one in europe with the establishment of the eurozone and in japan with it's hyper protection of domestic industry. the best examples in both places is about food. the simplest is japan. the japanese pay a huge premium for food because .gov protects domestic farmers from imports and local merchants from megastores. the benefit is measured in community cohesion and national pride. the cost of that benefit is 5 dolllar/pound more than the cost of rice in the usa, for instance. that price differential extends across the board for the protection of small farmers, fisherman, ranchers and the stores that sell their goods. that would be considered an inefficient distribution system by western standards but it also protects the income of the participants that form the basis of the larger economy. the usa walmart model replaces those participants in the local economy with minimum wage welfare receipients unable to purchase more expensive goods like cars and homes. one of the main concerns of the establishment of the eurozone was the protection of local and regional producers of food who could not compete with mass distribution systems.
as far as finding balance between endogeneous and exogeneous influences upon local production vis a vis the oneness of humanity, that is utopian dreamland because the globalization has only extended to capital and has largely excluded the one neccessary element of that oneness goal, the free movement of labor which would eventually equalize the value if labor in terms of input costs in production.
Now, can you translate this to average American lingo?
consult the harper's dictionary here on the Net.
Like, you know, don't need to, I'm not merican
50% of all voters have below average IQ!
70% of all voters have below average IQ. Smart people don't vote.
Companies are starting to figure out the game. I see more and more No pay internship opertunities for jobs that a few years ago would of been considered summer jobs for teenagers.
You got it right. The way they're getting around the minimum wage is by paying NO WAGE AT ALL for anyone who doesn't have the market power to demand a minimum wage and get it. I'm seeing unpaid "internships" being offered that require years of professional skills to qualify.
Milton Friedman once said: "The best job training is a job." Can anyone deny that? With a low minimum wage many young people will get jobs easily and then receive valuable job training to get a better job. With a high minimum wage the young people have to borrow $100K to get poor training from academics (which employers don't respect) and then bad jobs to get the real job training. The government should get the fuck out of the economy.
This is straight from the bible. Man we're screwed!!
7: And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, I'm collecting an increased minimum wage for menial work
8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Minimum Wage Worker, and Hell and the destruction of free market capitalism and America and millions of jobs followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth and with an extra few cents an hour in wages earned through honest labor.