Ron Paul: "When They Came For The Raw Milk Drinkers…"
From Ron Paul
When They Came For The Raw Milk Drinkers…
While I oppose most gun control proposals, there is one group of Americans I do believe should be disarmed: federal agents. The use of force by federal agents to enforce unjust and unconstitutional laws is one of the major, albeit overlooked, threats to liberty. Too often Americans are victimized by government force simply for engaging in commercial transactions disproved of by Congress and the federal bureaucracy.
For example, the offices of Rawesome Foods in Venice, California, have been repeatedly raided by armed federal and state agents, and Rawesome’s founder, 65-year old James Stewart, has been imprisoned. What heinous crime justified this action? Rawesome sold unpasteurized (raw) milk and cheese to willing customers – in a state where raw milk is legal! You cannot even drink milk from a cow without a federal permit!
This is hardly the only case of federal agents using force against those who would dare meet consumer demand for raw milk. In 2011 armed agents of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) raided the business of Pennsylvanian Amish farmer Dan Allgyer. Federal agents wasted a whole year and who knows how many millions of our tax dollars posing as customers in order to stop Allgyer from selling his raw milk to willing customers.
The use of force against individuals making choices not approved of by the political elite does not just stop with raw milk. The Natural News website has documented numerous accounts of federal persecution, including armed raids, of health food stores and alternative medical practitioners.
Federal bureaucrats are also using force to crack down on the makers of gold coins for fear that people may use these coins as an alternative to the Federal Reserve’s fiat currency. Bernard von NotHaus, the founder of Liberty Dollars, is currently awaiting sentencing on federal counterfeiting charges — even though Mr. von NotHaus took steps to ensure his coins where not used as “legal tender.”
Yet, the federal government was so concerned over the possibility that Mr. von NotHaus’s customers might use his coins in regular day-to-day commerce they actually labeled Mr. von NotHaus a “terrorist.”
These type of police state tactics used against, among others, raw milk producers, alternative health providers, and gold coin dealers is justified by the paternalistic attitude common in Washington, D.C. A member of Congress actually once told me that, “The people need these types of laws because they do not know what is good for them.” This mindset fuels the growth of the nanny state and inevitably leads to what C.S. Lewis said may be the worst from of tyranny “…a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims.”
All Americans, even if they do not believe it is a wise choice to drink raw milk or use gold coins, should be concerned about the use of force to limit our choices. This is because there is no limiting principle to the idea that the government force is justified if used “for our own good.” Today it is those who sell raw milk who are being victimized by government force, tomorrow it could be those who sell soda pop or Styrofoam cups. Therefore, all Americans should speak out against these injustices.
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You miss the obvious point -- if you make choices that impose a burden on the taxpayer, the taxpayer has a right to intervene and limit your choices.
It would be fine if raw milk drinkers had the dignity to quietly suffer and/or die at home when they contract listeria, brucellosis, etc. But they don't.
Nobody has the right to make a choice for me or you. You do not have the right to intervene in my decisions. Plus you are assuming that all people who drink raw milk are on some sort of government welfare health insurance. In the real world they actually have farmers and raw milk consumers with private health insurance paying their bills.
Of those privately insured drinkers of raw milk, how many have disclosed the fact to their insurers and agreed to pay higher premiums? (Hint: then answer rhymes with done.) Their extra health costs are therefore spread across the whole population, and when you impose costs on your neighbors, they damn well do have the right to make choices for you. It's just like smoking -- a personal choice that results in higher insurance premiums among other things.
I don't want to be a dick about it, but you have a very simplistic view of life in society. An endless number of your choices are constrained, and you are constantly constraining the choices of others. Say your next door neighbor wants to make some extra cash to fund his retirement in the Caymans by accepting toxic waste and dumping it in a pit in his back yard. Does he have the right to make that choice? Does nobody have the right to make that choice for him?
The right way to think about the issue is: when does society have a right to constrain choices? Not just for ideological reasons, of course. But when choices impose out-of-pocket costs on other people, that's case #1 where choice can reasonably be limited.
I would give Ron Paul personally a pass on the issue, because he famously said he would let people die on the sidewalk outside the hospital who lack health insurance. WWJD? WWRPD? Problem is, society is too soft hearted in general to to what Ron Paul would do.
then please explain hydrofracking.
People with money have the choice to frack anyone they want. Too bad we can't limit those choices.
and therein lies the rub. i personally do not deny that a healthy society is one that can balance individual freedom & liberty with collective responsibility. however, when the institutions that are entrusted to maintain that balance become corrupted to the core by selfish individuals who then in turn determine what is "good" for the remainder of the collective in order to further their own selfish interests at the expense of everyone else, then it is time to question any & all limits that are imposed on individuals by those institutions in the name of the "greater good" for the collective.
yes, there is always the danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but it seems that we currently have a far ways to go down the scale before that danger is clear & present.
What extra health care costs do raw milk consumers face? Why should someone else's lifestyle affect my health insurance premiums (hint: you're adding a new topic to the debate, not resolving the current one)? Among the myriad regulations imposed on the health insurance industry, one is that I may not purchase insurance from an out of state provider. So, even accepting the few faulty premises you've started off with, it seems the phantom "extra" health care costs we can thank those raw milk drinkers are only "shared" by the population of their specific state.
And still accepting your faulty premises, there are specific risks and detrimental health effects borne by sitting in front of a computer for an extended period of time. Seeing as you typed so much here, and seeing as we all have no clue as to your typing speed, I'm going to have to ask that you limit your comments either in length or number so that I'm not faced with an additional out-of-pocket expense treating your blood clots or kidney stones or pancreatic cancer or diabetes or what have you. It's just not fair. And if you were to die from these laziness-induced medical conditions, who would we have to compare SWAT raids on dairy farmers with some mythical neighbor selling his 0.74 acre backyard as a toxic waste dump?? The two things are just so similar! Like when a cat does a somersault but then some sausage is made with sage for a little added flavor, you know?
And society is not soft-hearted. That's why so many people fight to have money stolen from faceless "others" to pay for the problems of some other faceless people. It's just too much fucking work to do anything yourself, am I right?
Paraphrasing a quote I read this weekend and am too lazy to dig up - sorry for the extra costs :( - "welfare and the like are not a measure of the compassion of a society, but rather the lack of it."
If you want to know the health risks of raw milk, don't take it from me. Go to wikipedia and look up listeria and brucellosis. Those were very common before the marxtard Pasteur showed up (and a long life was three score and ten, and people had six children so three would survive). Now those diseases are virtually unknown (even to you). Not a mere coincidence. Next to sewage treatment, pasteurization of commercial beverages is #2 on the list of public health low hanging fruit.
Honestly, why do you think the G-men do the gestapo thing over raw milk? Just because they are mean, or want to deny the wonders of raw milk to the sheeple? Nonsense. It's a very clear public health issue, and a lot of the expense of treating those totally preventable diseases does indeed end up on the public. If pasteurization is a plot against the people, why has lifespan nearly doubled and the human population nearly crushed the earth since Pasteur?
Perhaps you would prefer a comparison to motorcycle helmet laws. Same thing in principle -- you are not allowed to take a risk because the cost would fall on your neighbors.
But I do salute you for at least considering and arguing the point, rather than just calling me a something-tard. ZH needs more of that.
To be honest, I don't even want to drink raw milk. I just see SWAT swarming farmhouses and think, "that's not cool at all." Then you try to pass the consumption of raw milk off as a cost (if it even is a cost, I still haven't seen your numbers) we all must share (which we shouldn't, again, another topic). And now apparently it's an affront to Pasteur himself, although I say your singular focus on pasteurization is an affront to a metric ton of scientific pioneers as well as the entire Industrial Revolution in one fell swoop regarding the increase in life expectancy. Same with infant mortality. Things like not being run over by horses and carts, not starving, not sleeping with parasites and rodents were the big ones. Milk, raw or not, when they could get it, was worth the risk to put it lightly.
You're honest in support of gestapo tactics against dairy farmers, but what happens when keyboard time is subject to a limit based on certain criteria? Sounds silly, right? Twenty years ago what would you have thought of the suggestion that we'd all be subject to a tax penalty if we didn't buy a health insurance plan that met minimum government coverages and standards? We've already passed silly and then some.
Chump, you are the man!
And to Lostmyshorts (who has clearly lost his mind, as well as his morality, as well as any semblance of what liberty is and should be), I might add that the decrease in the prevalence of brucellosis and listeria has MUCH more to do with the rise of refrigeration, and the very concept of food hygiene, both of which were largely lacking prior to Pasteur. The process of pasteurization is almost certainly the least part of the cause for the decline of the diseases you mentioned.
PS: I hear that bubonic plague is still endemic in the US Southwest. I suggest, based on your "logic", that a surcharge be placed on all travelers and residents in those areas based on that threat.
They want to prevent expenses from landing on the public? Not a good idea to use as part of your arguement. Helmet laws? Generally helmets prevent sudden death, which is cheap for the public, and expensive for insurers.
then explain aspartame or flouride or GMOs or high-fructose corn syrup or about a dozen other legal substances that pose long-term public health problems.
by the way, the overwhelming expenses that the "taxpayer" is paying for is for the military-industrial-complex and subsidies in form of compound interest to issue a currency that could be printed interest-free. does the "taxpayer" have any say to intervene and limit those choices?
i thought not.
Does the taxpayer have the right to opt out and stop paying taxes?
Lost your mind when you lost your shorts, Mr. Shorts? Can you provide a short history of all these imagined diseases or are you just pulling your information out of thin air?
The reason I ask is because I personally and millions of others grew up drinking non-Pasteurized milk and we didn't get sick.
The diseases occured when milk production went into mass production mode and proper care wasn't taken from extraction to market. The problem wasn't the product, instead it was the producers.
> Your tinfoil hat is interfering with your brain waves.
GFY
... had to be said.
Lost my shorts, you are correct raw milk DID have history spreading disease but you forget or are not aware why. During the the 1880s when cities such as Chicago we rapidly growing, cows were brought into city and were kept in horrible, unsanitary conditions. Actually quite like the conditions most cows in CAFOS are living in today. Pasturization made the milk safe to drink . However, it also made milk a dead product and a dangerous one at that because if a pathogen contaminated the milk after pasteurization it could grow unchecked. Raw milk from CAFOs would be a dangerous product. Please understand I would never advocate drinking it. You have been sold a lot of bad information by the scaremongers in the MSM. Do a little investigation and you may see some merits to our arguments.
Miffed;-)
"Makes you think about what is in the milk that they want us to drink...?"
Que sound of Jaws music in the background.:
http://notmilk.com/
Estrogen. Gay fish everywhere. Less reproduction due to lack of desire or sterilization. Early sexual development in females leads to early menopause or ovarian failure, feminization in boys. My ex was a cattle/dairy man. Growth hormone. Antibiotics. They receive shots the day they are born, testosterone to the bull calves, faster to market. less consumption with muscle mass to get to the 120 lb mark for transport to feedlot, and then to 1200 (or whatever) to slaughter. It's a race man. Race to the end.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070521-sex-fish.html
I am convinced mentally ill people are running the show.
"
Answers from our experts to important scientific questions Bioscience >Q: What are the effects of estrogen on fish sex ratios and reproductive behavior? Specifically, I am interested in the problem of extra estrogen being added to rivers near industrialized cities from birth control pills.
A: There are many chemicals in our environment that can mimic the natural estrogen that animals make to regulate their sexual development and reproductive systems. These include detergent additives, synthetic estrogens found in birth control pills and estrogen replacement therapy drugs, plastics additives, some pesticides, and livestock hormones. Many of these are common household materials, and they end up in our wastewater and sewage. Sewage treatment plants also receive natural human estrogen that is excreted. Conventional water and sewage treatment doesn?t remove them efficiently, and so they end up being discharged into our rivers and other surface waters. Livestock hormones can leach from large animal operations directly into surface waters. Estrogen and estrogen mimics have been measured in sewage treatment plant effluent and in their receiving waters throughout the industrialized world."
How often does total state power lead to the slaughter of citizens?
Raw milk? Like straight out of the cow's udder? Ewwwwww...... gross!
I want mine pasteurized and homogenized and pumped full of Dow chemicals, please!
If you don't agree with me you should be like..... arrested or something. That's just WRONG.
(Have you ever HAD real milk, stright from a cow? Or Ice Cream made from it? It's really REALLY good. You won't eat a half gallon of it either.... stuff is RICH. You KNOW you don't need piles of it to get your fill.)
I have drunk milk virtually every day of my life, and for the last six years mostly raw milk (goat in this case), and I can assure you that the difference between it and the homogenized, pasteurized, antibiotic-laden, hormone-laced storebought product is analogous to the difference between night and day, not only in raw milk's superior appearance and flavor but more importantly in its beneficial effects on digestion. It is virtually an entirely different product altogether.
Which is why you can Buy crack, heroin or meth in any town in American, but raw milk is as rare as hens teeth.
Shows the gubbermint's priorities!
If they make it illegal it will only take a year, at most 2 years, and more people will be drinking raw milk than did before they invented pasteurization. lmao
The authorities have been alerted. Drones are being dispatched. You are now on the no-fly list and the Utah data center is reviewing your calls and emails from the past few years.
As soon as the Feds shoot a couple of innocent old ladies in a pickup truck they think are you - they'll be right over.
When raw milk is outlawed, only outlaws will drink raw milk.
Can you imagine drinking a 32-oz gulp-size raw milk in public in downtown NYC...
Nanny Bloomberg would have a hissy fit and then a hernia before suffering a fatal heart attack!
(Any volunteers to drink one to help get rid of the disgusting holier-than-thou dis-honor?)
I double dog dare you to drink 32 oz o raw milk.the richness of raw milk will stop you after about a couple of glasses. That's the thing about real food, you will DEFINITELY feel the "stop". Fake food says eat forever. Funny that.
Miffed;-)
Excellent point MM!
Your every post is a kernel of wisdom.
fake food says eat forever cause the body signals it's not getting any "nutrition." When I eat a sald of twenty different greens and carrots from the garden with nuts and berries, the body feels a definite satisfaction that I can not get eating store bought stuff.
agree with akak - good posts
Throw infants and newborns in jail! Strip them away from their mothers tits! Protect the innocent children from big bad Raw Milk!
Mr miffed and I had an interesting experience on the first day at our sheep ranch in NZ. The farmer welcomed us with open arms and showed us to our cabin. We opened the frig and saw a large pitcher of milk obviously raw. We looked incredulously at him. He said defensively " it's not old I milked the cow today!" we said its not that it's just shocking to us you would give us raw milk. He just stared questionly at us. We had to explain he was dealing in a banned lethal substance in the US. He looked askance at us again and said " the more I meet you Americans the most I just don't understand you". We just had to laugh.
Last night we heard a lot of noise in the trees and wondered what was going on. This morning we explained it to our host. " Oh dear,, I forgot to tell you about the opposums. They are very destructive to the trees and fight among themselves at night" he brings us a gun with a scope and laser on it " Okay, if they keep you up tonight shoot them. If you are not sure which tree there in call my opposum dog down and he'll help you locate the tree" I will never forget the look mr miffed had on his face holding that gun looking at me in disbelief. It was the " ok I'm ready to renounce my citIzenship now" look. I don't have the heart to tell him we're over 50 and they won't take us.
Miffed:-)
Another key to Raw Milk is to make sure the dairy you buy from has their cows on a
grass fed only diet. Cows (ruminants) are not designed to eat corn, plus most corn is GMO now.
That goes for beef also. Grass fed Beef is superior in every way to Corn fed (feed lot) animals.
More expensive becuase it takes over 2yrs to get animal to market weight. Corn packs on the fat
and the unhealty yellow fat. Grass fed cows are lean and the fat is white, very similar to Venison.
Plus the cheapest way to feed a grass fed cow is pasture....healthier than stand in on concrete and shit all day/
Agreed! - you never forget that wonderfull flavor of warm raw milk...and home made butter on home made bread..
i mix grass fed burger with venison 50/50 - best burger ever, get 6 patties on real buns from the coop.
whats for diner? slow death for most americans-and ignorance is no excuse...
lucky we all got o care
now we can take your money for another slow, but faster death
got you last dime.
next up: death benifit; call it cradle to death via corporation profit motive.
make sure you vote:two heads one body.
My father was a vet and also has a PhD in infectious diseases. He grew up on a working farm and has a lot of experience with dairy cows. My wife was thinking about getting into the raw milk thing and I asked him about it and he said it was risky and he wouldn't drink it FWIW . I've never had raw milk. I think I'd drink a glass just to see what it tasted like. You only live once. I would be more comfortable if it were my cows so I could know that the process was sanitary.
"I think I'd drink a glass just to see what it tasted like. You only live once."
Wow! You're really living on the edge.
I bet he even sneaks raw cookie dough from time to time to snack on late at night, too, the daredevil!
Tried raw horse milk as a kid when one of our horses gave birth. Meh, would not try again, kinda 'watery' if I remember.
I can't wait to have kids so I can milk my wife. "Honey, can I borrow your boobies for a sec? My lucky charms need some milk......"
We don't have a cow. We have a bull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyrcnlLo9nY
Uh, we only go to the local dairy that has been inspected thoroughly, never had a complaint against them, and sells more raw milk than anyone else in the state. If you pick a dirty area, you get what you deserve. And it's worth every penny of the $7 a gallon we pay.
yes and my uncle worked for the water company and said that I should'nt drink well water that I should hook up to city water. 25 years on the well and still has never made me sick! thats what relatives are for, right?
So your father has a Phd? So what! HE sounds like a fucking moron! I've been drinking raw milk for 10+ years and have never gotten sick once and my overall health is better for it. If the animals are raised, fed and cared for how they should be there is very little risk of pathogenic bacteria entering the milk etc. Your dad probably grew up on a dairy farm where the cows sat around in their own shit all day and were fed corn and other grain.
You're such a classy guy. You wrote the important point: IF the animals are raised, fed and cared for...blah blah blah. If they're not then you can get seriously ill. You have to remember, a lot of people buy raw milk from farms they've never been to and have no idea about the quality and safety issues. I never said he grew up on a dairy farm. Learn reading comprehension prick. That's why I also wrote FWIW; if you don't like what I wrote, then move on. Keep spewing your tough guy BS from the safety of your internet anonymity.
When my Mom would cook dinner back in the 70's I'd sneak raw hamburger meat, just loved it. Soon as she got it out to make spaghetti or hamburgers or the like. I volunteered to help.
Had to make sure she couldn't see me. I'd pinch some and smoosh it back into shape. Mmmmm.
Didn't get sick once; farmers must have been doing something right.
I'd drink raw milk if it was my cow or goat, and it would be my choice.
Why can't we let people make choices anymore? Eh?
DON'T do that today. The chances you'd get EHEC or ecoli 157:h7 are extremely high. I ate raw hamburger like you did as a kid as well. I'd sooner drink Drano today. We live in a very dark time today my friend. Unless you raise it in known conditions it's not worth your life. Sad but true.
Miffed;-)
double post
I'm not a vet and I don't have a Ph.D. but I grew up on a farm and there is no substitute for raw milk. I used to drink gallons of it and never sick from drinking milk, in fact, less time sick than most people ever are. I refuse to drink the garbage they put on store shelves these days and I guarantee that the chances of getting sick from store bought milk are higher than getting sick from your own cow. Of course, you have to practice decent hygiene, but surely we have all been taught to wash our hands so wash the cows teats as well and you will be good to go.
Wouldn't it be nice if someone ran on these three goals:
1. Make lobyists illegal
2. 4 year term limits
3. Flat tax
How else can we get rid of this bullshit?
Wouldn't it be nicer if every once in awhile, instead of children or geriatric newsies getting shot, these wackdoos would find a politician and scream out "Sic Semper Tyrannis" or some such shit right before wasting them?
That would be nicer and more effective. And then suicide-by-fire-by-cop to avoid a trial.