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12 Things That Just Happened That Show The Next Wave Of The Economic Collapse Is Almost Here

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

Are we running out of time?  For the last several years, we have been living in a false bubble of hope that has been fueled by massive amounts of debt and bailout money.  This illusion of economic stability has convinced most people that the great economic crisis of 2008 was just an "aberration" and that now things are back to normal.  Unfortunately, that is not the case at all.  The truth is that the financial crash of 2008 was just the first wave of our economic troubles.  We have not even come close to recovering from that wave, and the next wave of the economic collapse is rapidly approaching.  Our economy is like a giant sand castle that has been built on a foundation of debt and toilet paper currency.  As each wave of the crisis hits us, the solutions that our leaders will present to us will involve even more debt and even more money printing.  And each time, those "solutions" will only make our problems even worse.  Right now, events are unfolding in Europe and in the United States that are pushing us toward the next major crisis moment.  I sincerely hope that we have some more time before the next crisis overwhelms us, but as you will see, time is rapidly running out.

The following are 12 things that just happened that show the next wave of the economic collapse is almost here...

#1 According to TrimTab's CEO Charles Biderman, corporate insider purchases of stock have hit an all-time low, and the ratio of corporate insider selling to corporate insider buying has now reached an astounding 50 to 1....

While retail is being told to buy-buy-buy, Biderman exclaims that "insiders at U.S. companies have bought the least amount of shares in any one month," and that the ratio of insider selling to buying is now 50-to-1 - a monthly record.

#2 On Friday we learned that personal income in the United States experienced its largest one month decline in 20 years...

Personal income decreased by $505.5 billion in January, or 3.6%, compared to December (on a seasonally adjusted and annualized basis). That's the most dramatic decline since January 1993, according to the Commerce Department.

#3 In a stunning move, Michigan Governor Rick Snyder says that he will appoint an emergency financial manager to take care of Detroit's financial affairs...

Snyder, 54, took a step he avoided a year ago, empowering an emergency financial manager who can sweep aside union contracts, sell municipal assets, restructure services and reorder finances. He announced the move yesterday at a public meeting in Detroit.

If this does not work, Detroit will almost certainly have to declare bankruptcy.  If that happens, it will be the largest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history.

#4 On Friday it was announced that the unemployment rate in Italy had risen to 11.7 percent.  That was a huge jump from 11.3 percent the previous month, and Italy now has the highest unemployment rate that it has experienced in 21 years.

#5 The youth unemployment rate in Italy has risen to a new all-time record high of 38.7 percent.

#6 On Friday it was announced that the unemployment rate in the eurozone as a whole had just hit a brand new record high of 11.9 percent.

#7 On Friday it was announced that the unemployment rate in Greece has now reached 27 percent, and it is being projected that it will reach 30 percent by the end of the year.

#8 The youth unemployment rate in Greece is now an almost unbelievable 59.4 percent.

#9 On Saturday, hundreds of thousands of protesters filled the streets of Lisbon and other Portuguese cities to protest the austerity measures that are being imposed upon them.  It was reportedly the largest protest in the history of Portugal.

#10 According to Goldman Sachs, bank deposits declined all over Europe during the month of January.

#11 Over the weekend, the deputy governor of China's central bank declared that China is prepared for a "currency war"...

A top Chinese banker said Beijing is "fully prepared" for a currency war as he urged the world to abide by a consensus reached by the G20 to avert confrontation, state media reported on Saturday.

Yi Gang, deputy governor of China's central bank, issued the call after G20 finance ministers last month moved to calm fears of a looming war on the currency markets at a meeting in Moscow.

Those fears have largely been fuelled by the recent steep decline in the Japanese yen, which critics have accused Tokyo of manipulating to give its manufacturers a competitive edge in key export markets over Asian rivals.

#12 Italy is an economic basket case at this point, and the political gridlock in Italy is certainly not helping matters.  Former comedian Beppe Grillo's party could potentially tip the balance of power one way or the other in Italy, and over the weekend he made some comments that are really shaking things up over in Europe.  For one thing, he is suggesting that Italy should hold a referendum on the euro...

"I am a strong advocate of Europe. I am in favor of an online referendum on the euro," Beppe Grillo told Bild am Sonntag.

Such a vote would not be legally binding in Italy, where referendums can only be used to repeal laws or parts of laws, but would carry political weight. Grillo has said in the past that membership of the euro should be up to the Italian people.

In addition, Grillo is also suggesting that Italy's debt has gotten so large that renegotiation is the only option...

In an interview with a German magazine published on Saturday, Mr Grillo said that “if conditions do not change” Italy “will want” to leave the euro and return to its former national currency.

The 64-year-old comic-turned-political activist also said Italy needs to renegotiate its €2 trillion debt.

At 127 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP), it is the highest in the euro zone after Greece.

“Right now we are being crushed, not by the euro, but by our debt. When the interest payments reach €100 billion a year, we’re dead. There’s no alternative,” he told Focus, a weekly news magazine.

He said Italy was in such dire economic straits that “in six months, we will no longer be able to pay pensions and the wages of public employees.”

And of course government debt has taken center stage in the United States as well.

The sequester cuts have now gone into effect, and they will definitely have an effect on the U.S. economy.  Of course that effect will not be nearly as dramatic as many Democrats are suggesting, but without a doubt those cuts will cause the U.S. economy to slow down a bit.

And of course the U.S. economy has already been showing plenty of signs of slowing down lately.  If you doubt this, please see my previous article entitled "Consumer Spending Drought: 16 Signs That The Middle Class Is Running Out Of Money".

So what comes next?

Well, everyone should keep watching Europe very closely, and it will also be important to keep an eye on Wall Street.  There are a whole bunch of indications that the stock market is at or near a peak.  For example, just check out what one prominent stock market analyst recently had to say...

"Every reliable technical tool is warning of major peaking action," said Walter Zimmerman, the senior technical analyst at United-ICAP. "This includes sentiment, momentum, classical chart patterns, and Elliott wave analysis.

"Most of the rally in the stock market since 2009 can be chalked up to the Federal Reserve’s attempt to create a ‘wealth effect’ through higher stock market prices. This only exacerbates the downside risk. Why? The stock market no is longer a lead indicator for the economy. It is instead reflecting  Fed manipulation. Pushing the stock market higher while the real economy languishes has resulted in another bubble.

"The next leg down will not be a partial correction of the advance since the 2009 lows. It will be another major financial crisis. The worst is yet to come."

Sadly, most people will continue to deny that anything is wrong until it is far too late.

Many areas of Europe are already experiencing economic depression, and it is only a matter of time before the U.S. follows suit.

Time is running out, and I hope that you are getting ready.

So what do you think?

How much time do you believe that we have left before the next wave of the economic collapse strikes?

Please feel free to post a comment with your thoughts below...

Jeff Rowley Big Wave Surfer wipeout Photo Jaws Peahi by Xvolution Media

- See more at: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/12-things-that-just-happened...

 

 

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Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:27 | 3297937 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Make and model?

 

16. I got a blowjob without even having to ask

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:08 | 3298292 wolfnipplechips
wolfnipplechips's picture

2002 Audi A4 1.8l

I spent a total of $2,866 on repairs and tires after the warranty expired. Not too bad in my estimation.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:01 | 3298079 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You should have kept oil and coolant in it.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:33 | 3298364 Blano
Blano's picture

I was actually bummed out when my Ford F-150 started dying a few months ago at 217,000.

'Cept now I'm driving a Toyota Avalon, and love it and the high 20's MPG too.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:02 | 3297837 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

metal.  all forms.   metal + foodstuffs + a gun to protect it all.   this time in history will be spoken about for centuries to come.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:08 | 3297861 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Is your family still stealing your TP?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:39 | 3297992 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

Is your family still stealing your TP? ... i had to get old to get smart.   no one, not even family, steals from me anymore.   i kicked out the freeloaders, changed the locks & am going it alone.   & thanks for asking & thinking of me, regards to all...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:53 | 3298036 espirit
espirit's picture

Good for you lynnybee.  Hang in there, we'll be here for you.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 16:05 | 3298663 Hulk
Hulk's picture

With a high fiber diet, TP is totally unecessary LB !!!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:19 | 3297903 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

That sounds like Tolkien's "Rings of Power".

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:21 | 3298141 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

sniff, sniff Nazgul...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:22 | 3298143 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Yes, to counter your Fed Bitcoin Power.  That you will have cooking after reading this. "One coin to rule them all!"

Forget it Paul Saruman, you money wizard.  The next Sveriges Riksbank 'Oscar' is mine!  Or you'll be looking at the business end of a photon torpedo tube.  Kirk out.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:55 | 3298250 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

- this time in history will be spoken about for centuries to come.

The good news is that it will be a warning.

The bad news is that it will be a warning.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:03 | 3297839 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I want this thing to explode, and soon, but at the same time I'm finishing my JD and LLM in Dezember. 

 

Oh well, either way I'm screwed, might as well deal with it now rather than later.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:03 | 3297840 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

COLLAPSE ALREADY.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:52 | 3298030 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

equity volume is collapsing today.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:58 | 3298265 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

Don't collapse until SWHC reports after the bell on Tuesday.  Thursday will do.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:53 | 3298432 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Hells yeah!  My $8.00 Feb 15th call is looking mighty good right now.  

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:08 | 3297843 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

How much time before economic collapse?  Wish I knew and wish it would get here already.  I feel like a kid in the back seat of the car driving to Disney World.  "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:02 | 3298082 Meatier Shower
Meatier Shower's picture

The longer it takes, the more time you have to prepare.

Be thankful.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:04 | 3298283 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

It happened couple months ago but nobody noticed. A friend of mine spotted it tha's how I know. Sorry can't say anything more til we secure the movie rights.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:05 | 3297845 FJ
FJ's picture

Is  Grillo a natural fool or a licensed fool? As a natural fool he would be difficult to control.

Does Europe need more jesters to tell the "truth"?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:04 | 3297847 mjorden
mjorden's picture

Apple is looking cheap ... 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:34 | 3298366 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

appl is looking dead

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 15:10 | 3298485 mjorden
mjorden's picture

Sorry, I didn't say 'APPL', I said 'Apple'.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:08 | 3297848 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

How much time do you believe that we have left before the next wave of the economic collapse strikes?

3 years, 4 months, 10 days, 9 hours, 35 minutes and 15 seconds....

no... 10 seconds...

no... 5....

 

AAAARRRHHH THIS IS SO DIFFICULT TO PREDICT!! TIME KEEPS MOVING!!

NO WONDER ANYBODY CAN PREDICT THIS SHIT!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:09 | 3297865 Hulk
Hulk's picture

LOL! In general, when shit keeps moving on you, one has to use Calculus  !!!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:10 | 3297876 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Wall Street is all up on derivatives and algorithms. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:28 | 3297943 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Maybe the kids who wrote the algorithms for JPM can write us some prediction software based on their scalping models...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:09 | 3297866 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

between 1 second and 10 years, can i have my bonus now?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:07 | 3297853 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Things can't be all that bad, Kerry just gave 250 million bucks to egypt !!!

/major fucking SARC. Although 250 million is just a drop in the debt bucket, I can't believe that we are giving away borrowed/printed money...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:19 | 3297904 reload
reload's picture

will be used for debt repayment to western banks - so worry not, the money is not being given to Egypt - it is being given to Banks! feeling better now?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:06 | 3298287 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

thank you sir I'll have another.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:19 | 3297905 kurzdump
kurzdump's picture

Thats cus the egyps would die of starvation otherwise. This country is importing half of the food needed to keep alive. The EU gave 250 million euros recently as well.

It would be a massive disaster if the shtf there.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:22 | 3297909 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

And on top of that giving it to a dictator backed by the Muslim Brotherhood.

Rewarding bad behavior with our money.

U.S.S.A. wins, citizens lose (again).

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:04 | 3298088 espirit
espirit's picture

Seems to be a sign of the times.  Makes one wonder that rewarding one's bad behavior with positive reinforcement is going to be the new normal.

Capital offences?  Here's your reward, your EBT, your O'bammy phone, and the housing waiver.  Now go away or we'll make you work in the banking industry.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:02 | 3298276 e-recep
e-recep's picture

 

"Things can't be all that bad, Kerry just gave 250 million bucks to egypt !!! /major fucking SARC. Although 250 million is just a drop in the debt bucket, I can't believe that we are giving away borrowed/printed money..."

 

 

it's your money he is giving away, not his. there is no "we".

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 02:58 | 3300120 bubbleburster
bubbleburster's picture

Bribery money for Morsi....to keep him away from Putin.  Isn't that obvious?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:09 | 3297862 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

but but but...

uncle warren said on cnbc to buy stocks, they are cheap they said

so who is lying here... uncle warren or the infamous mr snyder with his collapsing economy blog XD

at least in enjoyed the picture at the end, no smiley this time??? *Sadface*

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:11 | 3297874 walküre
walküre's picture

Warren is being promoted across all media. They need him badly. He's got loads of stocks to sell. Fool bought the rally since 2009 and is maybe the biggest dumb money rep the world has ever known. When the shit hits the fan and the markets collapse (markets, I know right?), then Warren baby will take a huge blow.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:48 | 3297964 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The eerie rhyme of the Nikkei forewarns, bitchez. Here's a a little, prior 31 year time table in American stock "market" history;

Condensed version: 

 

October 27, 1923: The greatest bull market of the 20th century begins after the Dow Jones Industrial Average closes the day near 86. It lasts nearly 6 years and lifts stocks by 345% until the Dow hits 381.


November 23, 1954: The Dow Jones Industrial Average closes at a record [NOMINAL, NOT REAL] high of 383, finally surpassing its previous high — set a quarter-century earlier on September 3, 1929.

 

And here's the unabridged version in all gory details.

October 27, 1923: The greatest bull market of the 20th century begins after the Dow Jones Industrial Average closes the day near 86. It lasts nearly 6 years and lifts stocks by 345% until the Dow hits 381. Then, beginning in 1929, the Great Crash pulls stocks down by 89%, erasing all these gains.

December 04, 1928: President Calvin Coolidge, in his State of the Union address, makes one of the worst market-timing calls in history: “The requirements of existence have passed beyond the standard of necessity into the region of luxury. Enlarging production is consumed by an increasing demand at home, and an expanding commerce abroad. The country can regard the present with satisfaction and anticipate the future with optimism….” Less than one year later, the Great Depression begins.

October 24, 1929: This day is “Black Thursday”, the first taste of the Great Crash. At the opening bell, 150,000 shares of Cities Service, the oil company, trade hands for $8.4 million, the largest block trade of stock ever yet recorded. By 10:30 a.m., even the blue-chip stocks are dropping $5 to $10 with each trade, and the ticker tape is running 16 minutes late. By lunchtime, RCA is down 35%, and Montgomery Ward has nose-dived 39.9% (remember those names?). Then a bankers’ pool is formed to put a floor under the plunging market. At 1:30 Richard Whitney president of the New York Stock Exchange and lead broker for J.P. Morgan & Co. marches up to the trading post for U.S. Steel and bids $205 for 25,000 shares. That’s $10 higher than the last bid and the panic breaks. Still the Dow closes down 2.1% on record volume of nearly 13 million shares. The bull market of the 1920s is about to end and the Great Depression is waiting in the wings.

October 28, 1929: Dow Jones 30 stocks on the New York Stock Exchange dropped from a September 3, 1929 high of 382 to 299 when the exchange opened on October 28, 1929. The Dow Jones then plummets 38 points (13%) to close at 261 for the day. Before October 24, 1929, the record volume of stocks traded was 8,246,740, which occurred on March 26, 1929. From October 24 to 28, intensely heavy trading elevated the volume of almost every session to near or above the March 26 record.

October 29, 1929: On “Black Tuesday” the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunges near 31 points to 230, an 11.7% collapse, but at one point during the day the Dow is down 48, or 18.5%. Today’s trading volume of 16.4 million shares shatters the old record (set just five days earlier) by nearly 4 million. In fact, 3 million shares are traded in the first half hour, more than an entire day’s typical volume just a few months earlier. This overwhelmed the Stock Exchange. The big gong had hardly sounded in the great hall of the Exchange before the storm broke in full force. Huge blocks of stock were flung upon the market for what they would bring. Not only were innumerable small traders being sold out but big ones too protagonists of the new economic era who a few weeks before had counted themselves millionaires. The carnage does not just strike illiquid stocks like Transamerica Corp. which implodes from $62 to $20 but it also mows down such market leaders as AT&T which loses 12.1% General Motors (15.8%) IT&T (19.3%) Standard Oil of New Jersey (20.1%) and duPont (22.7%). The market has now lost 34% in just 13 trading days, 40% since September 3, 1929, and the Great Depression is settling in.

October 30, 1929: The Dow Jones Industrial Average has one of its best days ever, rocketing up 29 points, or 12.3%, to 258 as John D. Rockefeller, Sr. announces: “There is nothing in the business situation to warrant the destruction of values that has taken place on the exchanges during the past week. My son and I have for some days been purchasing sound common stocks”. The Dow goes on to lose 84.1% more of its value before bottoming out on July 8, 1932.

November 01, 1929: For much of the abbreviated three-hour trading day, investors breathe a sigh of relief, as the market’s recent panic seems to lift. Up till the last hour, volume is light and stocks hold steady. Then a tidal wave of selling crashes onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, driving U.S. Steel down 6.5%. General Electric and New York Central Railroad hit new lows for the year, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average finishes with one of its worst days, losing 6.8%.

November 04, 1929: In an attempt to calm panicking investors, the New York Stock Exchange announces that it will be open for trading only three hours a day this week. The investing public takes no comfort, trading an astounding 6 million shares in just 180 minutes — more than twice the level of a normal full day’s trading just weeks earlier. U.S. Steel alone trades 108,700 shares, a nearly unprecedented volume for a single stock, and loses 5% to close at $184. The Dow Jones Industrial Average drops 5.8% to finish the day at 258 — down 32.4% in two months.

November 07, 1929: The stock market sludges through a day of murky panic, as 2.4 million shares trade in the first half-hour, one of the heaviest openings yet on record. By lunchtime, the market has slumped 6% in disorderly trading. Then J.P. Morgan & Co. steps in publicly and begins to buy stocks for its own account. By day’s end, the Dow manages to squeeze out a small gain, but the tickertape runs two hours late, and many sell orders go unfilled when they can’t be matched with buy orders.

November 11, 1929: For much of the abbreviated three-hour trading day, investors breathe a sigh of relief, as the market’s recent panic seems to lift. Up till the last hour, volume is light and stocks hold steady. Then a tidal wave of selling crashes onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, driving U.S. Steel down 6.5%. General Electric and New York Central Railroad reach new lows for the year. The Dow Jones Industrial Average finishes with one of its worst days ever, losing 6.8%.

November 13, 1929: The stock market hits its low for the year as the Dow slumps to 199, off from its yearly high of 381 on September 3. The carnage in individual stocks is far worse: AT&T closes at $197, down from $304 on September 3; General Electric ends the day at $168, versus $396; Westinghouse closes at $103, a loss of $187 per share since September 3.

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November 14, 1929: Stocks bounce off the absolute bottom of the Great Crash, as a wave of good news hits the market. General Motors announces a special dividend of 30 cents per share, Standard Oil of Kansas reinstates its dividend, and the New York Federal Reserve Bank announces that it is cutting interest rates from 5% to 4.5%. The Dow soars near 19 points, or 9.3%, one of its best days of all time.

November 17, 1929: President Calvin Coolidge declares that America is “entering upon a new era of prosperity.” Although Coolidge may not be the first to use the words “new era,” his remarks christen the bull market of the 1920s. In this “new era” market, declare many investors, you can’t pay too much for a good stock; if you just wait long enough, it will make you rich. That works for a while. Then it stops working — for more than a quarter of a century.

December 10, 1929: For those who worry that the American economy is in trouble, Charles M. Schwab, chairman of Bethlehem Steel Corp., has a resounding answer: “Never before has American business been as firmly entrenched for prosperity as it is today,” Schwab says in a speech to the Illinois Manufacturers Association in Chicago. “….This great speculative era in Wall Street, in which stocks have crashed, means nothing in the welfare of business. The same factories have the same wheels turning. Values are unchanged. Wealth is beyond the quotations of Wall Street. Wealth is founded on the industries of the nation, and while they are sound, stocks may go up and stocks may go down, but the nation will prosper.” Well, sort of.

December 31, 1929: The New York Stock Exchange hosts its annual New Year’s Eve party right on the trading floor, with the 369th Infantry Band blaring its bells and horns a full hour-and-a-half before the close of trading. Drunken brokers blowing whistles and whirling noisemakers stagger around the Exchange floor, and the racket can be heard all the way over on Broadway, two city blocks away. The brokers are celebrating two things: the prevailing belief that “it” (the market crash) is over, and the fact that high trading volume, even in a falling market, has made them rich. They will learn soon enough that their celebration is uncalled for.

March 16, 1930: Julius H. Barnes, who heads President Herbert Hoover’s National Business Survey Conference, proclaims that “the spring of 1930 marks the end of a period of grave concern…. American business is steadily coming back to a normal level of prosperity.” His judgment turns out to be premature — by nearly a decade.

July 08, 1932: The Dow closes near 42, which turns out to be the lowest point of the Great Crash.

March 15, 1933: The New York Stock Exchange reopens after closing for two weeks during Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt’s bank holiday, and pent-up investors bust loose in a bullish stampede, whooping and hollering as they propel the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its biggest one-day percentage gain yet on record, a 15.3% leap, to close at 62. The Standard & Poor’s Composite Index of 90 stocks soars 16.6%. Even so, stocks are trading at roughly 87% below their 1929 highs, share prices average just 0.65 times book value, and the average dividend yield (among those companies that can afford to pay one) is 8.7%. Stocks are trading at an estimated 10 times their earnings for the coming year.

March 16, 1933: President Franklin D. Roosevelt takes the U.S. off the gold standard, removing the yellow metal from coinage and circulation, even banning it as a collectible.

****November 23, 1954: The Dow Jones Industrial Average closes at a record high of 383, finally surpassing its previous high — set a quarter-century earlier on September 3, 1929.*****

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:00 | 3298069 DblAjent
DblAjent's picture

And?

 

;)

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:19 | 3298136 adr
adr's picture

What I read is that if it weren't for the stock market, things would have been fine. I also saw that wealthy people will try to intervene in the market to falsely prop it up when thier share based wealth is at stake.

The collapse lasted two months and the stock market bottomed, but it sent the country into a depression. Why was that?

Schwab was actually right. All the factories were still there. That which brought prosperity was all still functioning. How could so much damage be done to the economy by a few traders in a stock exchange?

Did the US economy really grind to a halt on Oct 24th 1929? On New Year's Eve the brokers thought it was all over. Many corporations lost half their paper value, but the corporations themselves didn't lose real business, unless the business was fake.

That leads you to the conclusion that the stock market itself is to blame. That it causes massive speculative bubbles based on future growth that will never be there. All to enrich a small minority at the expense of others.

The depression was caused by the working people losing their wealth. They were told to buy stocks, and they did. Because they could not trade like JP Morgan or Rockefeller, they were wiped out. The wealth they had was gone, and they could no longer consume. Not because they lost their job, that would come later. But because they were conned into believing they could become wealthy without the need for labor. They were conned into believing they could purchase what they could not afford because the stock certificate they held would always increase in value, so they could sell it and easily repay the debts.

If there is a devil, his powers to destroy pale in comparison to that of the stock exchange.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:01 | 3298274 anonnn
anonnn's picture

...conned into believing they could become wealthy without the need for labor.

Of course you can become wealthy without working. Just follow the advice of J P Morgan: "Do what I'm doing."

[Another version]  Send $2 for instruction how to make money. By return mail, got the instructions: "Do what I'm doing".

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 15:47 | 3298595 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Poor Don Lapre should be Canonized in comparrison.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:24 | 3298151 Arkilokoos
Arkilokoos's picture

History way off dude. "December 04, 1928: President Calvin Coolidge in his State of the Union address"   State of the unions not given in December and wasn't Hoover elected in November 1928

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:34 | 3298175 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Really, DUDE?

Let Me Google That For You

Few things are as embarrassing as acting as confident as you do when you're so wrong, huh?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:31 | 3298168 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

At its most basic & simple level, the "Stock Market" is nothing but a "money gathering and money re-distributing" operation.  It is Zero-Sum Ponzi game, where everyone hopes or thinks they can benefit.  Given the weaknesses & foibles of human nature, and mood swings of Mother Nature, think, plan and act accordingly.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:16 | 3298912 css1971
css1971's picture

The stock market is literally a legalised pyramid scam.

Early entrance to the scheme when stocks are low will net you a load of money as later purchasers drive prices up. Late entrance and you are one of the millions of losers.

If you are relying on capital "growth" then you're betting on a pyramid scam. If you're relying of dividends then you are investing.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:14 | 3297883 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

they're cheap if you're buying them with somebody else his money and you make money on the commission.

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:17 | 3297893 reload
reload's picture

It IS amazing how much foreign aid broke western ecconomies dole out - until one realises that a huge percentage of said aid will be used by the recipient to pay interest on loans owed to western banks.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:22 | 3297912 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Foreign aid helps to keep the "almighty dollar" as a reserve currency.....Bernank the pusher man.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:49 | 3298222 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

The reserve currency's hidden agenda is more important regarding foreign aid

Keeping it that way? well thats the navy's job...

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:34 | 3298020 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I used to think the world of Buffet, cause I used to drink the Kool Aid with my Blue Pills.  Now I see him for what he truly is -- it it ain't pretty or for kids' ears.

He's... and merely taking his assets to safe & high ground, to wait out the financial deluge, and then to step back in and buy up things real cheap.  Plan & act accordingly.

Old banking saying:  "The best time to buy is when there is blood in the streets".  ~ Amsel Rothschild.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:08 | 3297863 walküre
walküre's picture

To Germany: Do you want to be the last man standing and holding the crappy Euro bag?

START THE DEFAULT on the Eurozone ALREADY

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:10 | 3297869 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I've been reading this shit for four stinking years and one thing I know for certain is ..every year collapse is just around the corner and every year TPTB manage to figure a way to keep it going. It has been astounding to watch that's for sure.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:13 | 3297881 akarc
akarc's picture

Makes one question reality eh?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:15 | 3297888 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

What if the collapse isn't coming? Just a slow motion train wreck of pot holes not being filled, closed store fronts, hot dogs becoming an expensive delicacy, huge portions of the population sitting around living off state issued credit cards, violent crime rampant, health care increasingly more scarce and expensive and less effective until poof, you look around and you are living in something resembling a post apocalyptic world but can't remember ever experiencing the 'apocalypse'. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:18 | 3297902 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That's actually the way I see it playing out. A slow grind down the road to perdition. Each new generation will accept more poverty  as the norm.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:37 | 3298183 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

I agree that there is a high probability of this outcome.  Because we know that they know that a societal unraveling brings with it its own probability they lose power.  Everything they do works toward a 'soft landing' of sorts.  

Still, at the back of my mind is the fomenting hatred between classes and ideologies and the fragility of our decaying infrastructure, especially the power grid.  No gasoline, no electricity could be a real game changer.  Hedging accordingly for both possible futures..

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:14 | 3298309 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Ok, I'll "bite" (into your scenario).  You do realize that it won't stop the purveyors of Crash & Burn, Doom & Gloom from... prophesying & purveying?  As long there's a profitable market 'need' to fill.   Just sayin'.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 18:45 | 3299151 mkkby
mkkby's picture

In most of flyover country it's been a 2nd great depression for 20+ years.  Other than news about Detroit and a few other places, it's happened without much notice.

There's been a great migration to the coasts, where a few tech industries have flourished.  Other than that only the subsidized industries are doing okay.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:24 | 3297923 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

You forgot about the part where anyone who speaks up about the slow train wreck is either tabbed as a threat by the govt or tabbed as a lunatic by society.  Especially since some of us have been pointing out the train wreck for a while now and no one wants to hear about it unless it involves unicorns and rainbows.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:41 | 3298388 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Just like the housing bubble deniers would look at you like you were from another planet if you even suggested that the housing market might be a little overheated. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:30 | 3297948 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I think you have it right.

 

In this decayed hole among the mountains   In the faint moonlight, the grass is singing   Over the tumbled graves, about the chapel   There is the empty chapel, only the wind’s home.   It has no windows, and the door swings,   Dry bones can harm no one.
Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:28 | 3297951 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I hear Biff's casino is offering 2-for-1 Brazilians at the Spa if you bet $100 or more on the Triple 7's.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:35 | 3297970 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

that seems the way it's going.... the U.S. wealth IS being transferred and the stock market is up... everything is fine, right?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:35 | 3297972 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

that seems the way it's going.... the U.S. wealth IS being transferred and the stock market is up... everything is fine, right?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:49 | 3298021 edifice
edifice's picture

I think Looper had it about right... When my currency has Mao printed on it, I'll know we've arrived.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:58 | 3298065 perelmanfan
perelmanfan's picture

One reason it seems to happen so slowly is that there are countervailing trends that are actually positive. In my neighborhood in Phoenix, another house gets solar panels every week. Driving through the midwest, I see windmills everywhere. More backyard gardens. More small farms (the number of people who describe their occupation as "farmer" is actually beginning to go up for the first time in a century). "Collapse" does not happen in a country with 100s of millions of people each pursuing a varied course; the system is too complex and dynamic to monolithically collapse. That having been said, life is getting worse for lots of people; but for others, it is getting better, and still others are busily redefining what "better" and "worse" mean.

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:11 | 3298300 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Collapse actually happens (and has happened, to the mightiest empires in human history) for many of the very reasons you recite as to why it isn't likely.

The more complex the system, the less likely it is that entities run by technocrats can keep it patched together. Add increasingly wider, more broadly spreading "desires" and "courses of actions" to the personal plan of each individual actor that collectively forms the citizenry, and that alone has just increased the complexity of the system by a massive multiplier.

Stability requires uniformity of thought & action.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:24 | 3298337 perelmanfan
perelmanfan's picture

I believe centrally planned economies will give way to decentralized, unplanned ones, and the transition will be messy, but not the same as "collapse." The reason is that decentralization has already begun. Everyone here on zerohedge is saying "bring it on" because they have already to some extent unplugged from the complex supply chains that characterize modern life. The centrally planned system is indeed unstable, but my point is, that is not the only system that exists - I look around me and see localized, diverse economic ecosystems getting stronger by the day.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 15:51 | 3298604 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This process that you describe is precisely tantamount to the types of processes that create collapses & crashes, though.

I don't want to be redundant, but it's axiomatic that as the number of people unplugging from conventional lifestyles, occupations and overall social "norms" increases, especially if this increase takes place at a dramatic rate of acceleration, it inherently starves the core of the system that has thus far led to the foundation of the economic structure.

Perhaps this is why perpetuation of a "welfare state" condition (e.g. bread & circuses) is so imperative for the elite, as much today as it was during Rome's decline.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:01 | 3298839 css1971
css1971's picture

Ding. You just described collapse. Empires don't end over night.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:28 | 3298967 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

there is a saying in german: Nobel soll die Welt zu Grunde gehen
Fancy the world should die

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:31 | 3297961 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

You're right.  I used to think it could happen any second .... at any moment... I suppose it could happen any moment but, I stopped discounting the ability of those in power to keep all the balls in the air.  This crap could go on for years to come before it all comes apart.

The one thing I think we can count on is for them just to just keep changing the rules as things attempt to right themselves in the market.  That we can count on. 

Wish we could just do it iceland style and get it over with and move on.  I don't wish for what is coming... I dread it.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:43 | 3298003 Rusty Diggins
Rusty Diggins's picture

PTSD  = Perpetual traumatic stress syndrome.  Go ahead, you can use it.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:52 | 3298039 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

 Unforunately it can go on alot longer than anyone thinks..The end result will not be changed however..

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:39 | 3298378 paulbain
paulbain's picture

--------------------

 

 

 

 

Dr. Engali wrote:

I've been reading this shit for four stinking years and one thing I know for certain is ..every year collapse is just around the corner and every year TPTB manage to figure a way to keep it going. It has been astounding to watch that's for sure.

 

For me, that is probably the most important thing that I have learnt in the last four years, too. Since 2009, I have known that hyperinflation would hit the USA, but, so far, inflation has been so modest that the Federal government has not even imposed price controls on, say, fuel or food. Very surprising.

-- Paul D. Bain

PaulBain@PObox.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:10 | 3297870 earnulf
earnulf's picture

As many have indicated, they can keep the scheme going longer than you can stay solvent.    What I foresee is a massive debt forgiveness among countries, and zip for the people.     It will be spun as "national reconcilliation" or some sort of BS and people will be told that the country is in great shape, if they will just DO THEIR PART and pay their debts.

Imagine how much different things would have been to give each taxpayer a thousand dollars instead of bailing out the banks and let the PEOPLE spend that free money on things or save or pay down/off debt.    That would have stimulated the economy more than all the hundreds of billions of dollars spent to "save the TBTF".   

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:38 | 3297985 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

No, don't you understand that people aren't smart enough to do anything which is why the gov. must control their retirement and healthcare and money and if you gave them access to direct cash they would spend it recklessly unlike bankers and politicians who are cautious, frugal and don't have harebrained schemes, are always honest and don't have their own best interest in mind but rather the people that they (rule over) lead.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:18 | 3297873 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Sequester cuts start to kick in at the end of the month. Stocks implode shortly after (by design). We "learn" (falsely through propaganda) cuts are bad. Currency wars heat up and failing Yen and Euro strengthen the dollar. More bailouts, more stimulus, more spending. Inflation continues to grind away the middle class.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:10 | 3297875 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

As for the European data points, I have been showing how austerity would mean they would be mired in depression instead of making a recovery like proper economics dictates. If anyone thinks the U.S. will suddenly collapse, then go tell the Fed Chair he could increase the purchase program; you can tell him Paul sent you.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:19 | 3297897 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Ah yes, modern Italy:  "The house that fiat built."

I didn't build that.  Three-card Monti did.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:27 | 3297939 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Paul WHO?

Are you on first base, if so why aren't you WHY?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:29 | 3297946 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Next step is $120/month QE for the fed. It's a given.

Currency wars. A repeat of the 1930's.

More Social Security Disability, EBTs, Free Cell phones, Section 8 and welfare should solve everything.

Time to double. Yes we can boost it up to $32 trillion.

Debt doesn't matter. 

Want an instant sugar high, recovery? Just give everyone $50,000. It's quick and no games. Have Benny Bernanke and the inkjets buy the debt.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:32 | 3298167 adr
adr's picture

Austerity is spending less, LLLEEESSSSSSSS. Spain, Italy, Greece, etc HAVE INCREASED SPENDING!!! THAT ISN'T AUSTERITY!!! jesus fucking christ.

Oh yeah I forgot, in textbook economic lala land increasing spending by $100 billion over last year when spending was forecast to be over $120 billion is actually a spending cut of $20 billion, and therefore austerity.

God I wish I could slap some sense into you.

There are truths of the world only working in real productive business will teach. Those that have only completed academia are beyond ignorant to the simplest truths of economics.

That is why you Mr. Krugman couldn't run the only lemonade stand in town on a hundred degree day.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:11 | 3297879 Logiclee03
Logiclee03's picture

Well stocks are at/near all time high so why should insiders buy?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:13 | 3297882 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

Waterboard'em if you got'em.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:15 | 3297885 irie1029
irie1029's picture

Fuck them all.  Let them live in their fantasy world.  I know its coming and I am ready with a plan.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:15 | 3297887 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

Event 3/22-4/1. That is all.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:22 | 3297913 Rusty Diggins
Rusty Diggins's picture

Can I buy a CDS against that?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:39 | 3297988 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

Just put your chip on double zero.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:44 | 3298204 jtz5
jtz5's picture

But that's during March Madness.  Certainly our Basketball Player-In-Chief can't be expected to manage a crisis and interfere with his bracket selection reveal.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:16 | 3297891 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Bernanke, Evans, Dudley and Yellen will keep increasing the QE amounts.

Soon the printing progression.

$85 billion to $120 billion a month.

Already talking about this.

The Fed keeps on increasing QE.

It's the Zimbabwe economic plan.

Will the Fed get to $1 trillion a month QE?

 

 

 

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:13 | 3298114 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Is the plan for the Fed to buy all the mortgages, then create a depression and foreclose on' all the assets so the Fed owns everything? paper losses don't hurt the Fed-they just print money. Can they do this? Is this all by design? It appears so. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:18 | 3297898 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

2015 is the date when we get back to "ZOMG!!!111 The Market!!!!111" epic fail crash, IMO.

They can kick the can and fool the public, despite these bad headline, for anohter 2 years.  Why? The people are stupid, even those who sit in the investment houses who keep telling us to invest in this "bull" market.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:19 | 3297900 DblAjent
DblAjent's picture

Bring it, bitchez. Let's burn this mutha #ucka down!

(Just let me sell my properties first...)

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:23 | 3297916 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-a...  Oh they are ready for you......

 

 

 

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

Although I’ve seen and read several online blurbs about this vehicle of late, I decided to dig slightly deeper and discover more about the vehicle itself.

The new DHS sanctioned ‘Street Sweeper’ (my own slang due to the gun ports) is built by Navistar Defense (NavistarDefense.com), a division within the Navistar organization. Under the Navistar umbrella are several other companies including International Trucks, IC Bus (they make school buses), Monaco RV (recreational vehicles), WorkHorse (they make chassis), MaxxForce (diesel engines), and Navistar Financial (the money arm of the company).

 

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:24 | 3297921 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I thought we bailed Wallstreet out to avoid the " tanks in the streets".

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:31 | 3297962 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Oh these are not tanks, they are heavily armored Winnebagos with turrets and three DHS kids inside to "protect and serve".

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:01 | 3298842 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

no tank you!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:59 | 3298066 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Is the radiator bulletproof?  Are the tires solid rubber?  Enquiring minds would like to know?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:16 | 3298124 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

As I recall, it wasn't the radiators or the (non-existant) tires that were the weak spot in the soviet tanks in 1956  Budapest.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:20 | 3297908 Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

Oh but the confirmation endorphins FEEL so good...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:24 | 3297920 Paracelsus
Paracelsus's picture

Towards the end of the month,in Paris (and elsewheres no doubt) a bunch of ladies come out of the woodwork to do some amateur hooking.These are called "end of the monthers",just trying to make the rent.No doubt this depresses the price of the commodity (price discovery) but shows what happens in a free market.I expect we will see more of this in the future,thanks to the FED....

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:49 | 3298023 DblAjent
DblAjent's picture

We call those "semi-pros" in Latin America. The best!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 15:53 | 3298583 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Universal western phenomenon at this point, look at all the suga daddy and try-a-bride sites popping up, no different than the nineties' ex-Soviet bloc ones.  Soylent Green's 'furniture'.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:17 | 3298919 pursueliberty
pursueliberty's picture

In several latin countries you have december hooking.  They need money for presents, and people travel a lot before christmas to warm places.  Once a year hookers.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:24 | 3297922 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I'll believe u when we get to : 13...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:25 | 3297925 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Waiting for this collapse is like watching paint dry.

However, if retail money keeps piling into mutual funds and other casino machines it will happen when the hedgies and big boys in the know sell what they want and take their profits.

They can't collapse the housing market and raise rates until Wall Street bleeds out the assets from the middle class that they want.

So it is really a question of when is the maximal profit to be made fucking over the middle class, that will be the real top.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:26 | 3297934 Aegelis
Aegelis's picture

"Uh oh, overflow, population, common food, but it'll do.
Save yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs, listen to your heart bleed dummy with the rapture and the revered and the right - right.
You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty psyched.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine."

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:31 | 3297959 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

No truth anywhere (whatsoever), only more lies from the fraud factories sucking government tit.

"Recovery" hasn't started.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:39 | 3297963 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Moral?  Prepare to hunker down for a long (Kondratieff) economic winter.

Preparedness Checklist (buy, build, keep):  Max cash in own safe (not @bank), keep job, PM & old money-coins (90% silver), all costs down (to bare-bones), food, tools, useful + barter items (TP & tampons, booze, meds, ammo...), G&A, old self-service car & vital spare car parts, wood stove & wood.  Etc, etc. 

Help friends & neighbors because (a) it's the right/Christian thing to do, and (b) also self-serving for mutual assistance, camaraderie & protection.  A bit of something is still better than a whole lot of nothing.

Consider a multi-generational housing arrangement -- for obvious economic and personal benefits.  It worked for many centuries, until bankers and MSM taught us that each person must have own house and become a debt-salve to them.

Hope & wishful thinking are not actionable or viable strategies -- unless you're a sheep.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:07 | 3298290 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

In addition you all need to have your homes paid off and be prepared to pay rent (prop. taxes) for ten years out of the cash in your own safe..   And never mind about those 2700 MRAP's DHS just bought those are for border security, 55 per state ought to do it..

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 16:52 | 3298816 enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

some gang will come relieve you of whatever you have in a post collapse scenario. you are hopelessly deluded if you think you can survive being bunkered up with your family in some little ranch house in suburbia.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:34 | 3297965 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

I don't think we're going to get a 2008 style market implosion.

Governments have too much political capital to simply step in and change the rules, print and bail out, tax and cut and generally confiscate wealth to meet the perceived graeter good.

We're in for decades of decay and slow decline rather than a sudden and sharp collapse, with lots of turbulence and noise along the way to obfuscate the whole situation.

 

There are a few never spoke of game changers along the way too. Like how will the introduction of the male pill affect the costs of pensions and welfare?

The next generation is going to have a lot less unwanted children and a lot less absent fathers. Not 100% less, but a lot less. There will be all kinds of difficult to predict side efefcts from crime statistics to student loan demand to pension shortfalls, you name it it's a game changer.

But it's another thing that is never spoke of, people are too dumb to do anything else but extrapolate the recent departure from monetary and fiscal sanity decades into the future. A futile exercise.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:04 | 3298052 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Yeah.

While we print and print and prop up the banks that caused this mess... the 85b / month will eventually get into the system and dillute our currency.... the stock market will make modest gains while gasoline goes up to 10.00 / gallon and up from there.  The rules will be changed as needed... the crooks make money and we starve.  It's been done before and, it's no different here.

The ONLY thing is that now all the major economies are hitting stall speed at the same time.... it may be hard to keep the market moving up... even with all the liquidity being shoved into it.  The .gov will get it's money but, will the market survive for much longer as it is?  .....   It makes me wonder how with no growth we can keep the market going up.... not sure how much longer that can go on.

I still tend to believe your argument.  Even if or when the market implodes from no growth, your argument is valid.  As long as we can just keep throwing new money at the problem, it will be hard for it to come completely apart.... at least in the way some think it may.  But, what the hell do I know? 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 19:25 | 3299249 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

No.  You will get something far worse.

Unemployment in the EU is skyrocketing - Spain worsened 1.2% again last month.  Imagine what that does to govts balance sheet - imagine what that does to bank solvency.

At some point what is going to happen is a big country - spain, italy, japan, france? is going to default and implod.

The fact of the matter is if there are no jobs and no growth you can only pretend for so long - eventually REALITY is going to strike

And 2008 is going to look lame by comparison

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:34 | 3297966 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

I'm sick of this sensationalist, wolf-calling arguments with big lapses in logic. Don't get me wrong, I subscribe to the ZH premises here, but really, doomsday is just around the corner?

 

#2. Personal Income experienced its largest monthly drop in 20 years: that's easy to do when previous (december) saw a surge in income recognition for tax-avoidance purposes. It's an gimmick, unextrapolatable statistic that doesn't say anything about a shift in trends.

#1. See above. no trend shift here.

#3. Detroit was a wreck for decades, no trend shift here.

#4-7. Aweful but long-term trends going on and certainly not things that "just happened"

...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:55 | 3298252 bubbleburster
bubbleburster's picture

How come almost no one discusses what the introduction of a VAT on a list of goods and services.....would do?  I mean, in Canada and many other countries VAT taxes have been giant rivers of cash to governments.  In Canada's case due to acceptable forms of national fiscal even-minded budgets and paying down debt, the tax has helped keep the nations finances the envy of the world.  So, my point: if the USA were to adopt a VAT of say 1/4 % on a list of stuff.....I bet you that their deficits get whiped out in a year or two and that if kept in place the national debt could rapidly start to decline.

Am I totally bonkers about this?  I mean, I know that most American's would rather die than accept a new tax.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:30 | 3298360 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

"Am I totally bonkers about this?  I mean, I know that most American's would rather die than accept a new tax."

Most Americans are dead inside, and so will accept a new tax..

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:32 | 3298363 moonman
moonman's picture

VAT tax is meant to be be in place of income tax not in addtion to.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 15:38 | 3298574 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

ROFL do tell that one to your European friends!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 15:22 | 3298520 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

canada makes money by raping natural resources not by a vat tax and with a small population the overall cost is nothing compared to the USA. the introduction of a VAT in Europe has not relsolved any of the revenue issues it was supposed to do as claimed by VAT proponents. it is just another revenue stream that creates an illusion of fairness so the takers can feel good while the steal from the producers

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:08 | 3298866 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Oh come on now; the natural resources were begging for it.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 02:50 | 3300116 bubbleburster
bubbleburster's picture

Raping natural resources?  Gosh, you sound like you're chanelling the World Wildlife Fund guys.  In Canada it is mostly Alberta that has grown monstrously rich because the province sits on the most valuable petro resources....not the government of Canada.  In Canada the goods and services tax actually does pull in substantial tax revenue.  What the gov't decides to do with it is a political issue.  So far the only really big concern in Canada is the amount of consumer debt.  The country as a whole entity is very strong, with the rich provinces still providing transfer payment tax revenue to "have not" provinces, which now includes Ontario.  The point you raise about Europe is a good one and then again it is really up to each individual country what they do with the extra revenue.  Some countries like Italy have very large underground economies that exist outside of the tax mans grasp, much to the detriment of any National Finance Minister.  If people will not pay tax and they elect officials to keep on expanding the social network then it will all end in tears.  I suppose with or without VAT taxes.  The USA does not have a national consumption tax, as far as I know.  Were they to introduce a very small one then theoretically the gov't coffers would have a lot of money to pay down debt with.  The tax would have to be mandated by law to go to paying down debt....I guess that is what I had in mind.....Not that this is going to happen. 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 05:51 | 3300200 player333
player333's picture

No amount of revenue will fix anything. At the size our government is now it will consume all available resources-it takes on a life and will of its own. The only way to curb government now is to starve the beast.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:37 | 3297976 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

We need to think of collapse in terms of change. And things, rest assured, will change.

The things we take for granted, whether they be money, jobs, outings, credit cards, loans, rights, freedoms and even relationships with people  will be shaken to such a degree that we will wonder how we allowed things to get so out of hand.

Will society recreate itself or will it devour itself?

Will justice and the free market be reinstated or will those that blew up the system reemerge in new clothing more incompetent, greedy and evil than ever?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:14 | 3298115 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Wise words.  In some ways, what you describe is already happening now.  Time is sneaky like that, isn't it?  Bacon at 7.00/lb  gasoline at 4.00/ga....  it's changing now.... all of a sudden many that were middle class can't afford gasoline to get them to work.... or food to feed their family with what you'd consider normal grocery store purchases.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:36 | 3297979 lo574
lo574's picture

Doom and gloom; sounds like a buying oppty

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:45 | 3298210 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And a profitable business model for its speakers and 'solution providers'?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:37 | 3297982 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

US declared bankruptcy on Aug 15, 1971...when Nixon unilaterally ended Britton Woods...no longer backing our dollars with metals...

 

 

NIXON: "…I have directed secretary Conelly to suspend TEMPORARILY the convertability of the dollar into GOLD or other reserve assets (SILVER)…now what does this action though technical REALLY mean to you?..."

 

NIXON ANNOUNCES US FUCKED

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:40 | 3297993 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

FDR banning gold had the same effect and was decades earlier.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:40 | 3297994 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

May Nixon and Wilson rot in Hell!  Hoping there is such a place.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:53 | 3298047 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Actually the USA declared bankruptcy when it established the Federal Reserve.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:25 | 3298155 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

1913 was the Ultimate Bank Bailout.  It transferred the ownership of the nation's currency from its citizens to the big banks with the stroke of a pen.  The pen really was more powerful than the sword.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:15 | 3298319 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If it wasn't the date it declared bankruptcy, it certainly was the beginning of it.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:37 | 3297984 C deK
C deK's picture

I say:  "Bring it on!!!"  Better for me to suffer, than to have my kids inherit a shit sandwich.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:53 | 3298012 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Things aren't so bad when Keynesian economists are in charge.  They get it.  They have studied.  They know just how much money to [counterfeit] err...print. This is exactly why they are here to save the [banksters] world from itself because people are dumb so they need great [conmen] leaders to guide them, nay shepherd them to a greater [demise] tomorrow!

*strikethrough not working in html editor

 

I might add #13 is SNOW.  Snow always predicts collapse.  Weather related incidents have been the downfall of most economies for the past thousands of...days.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:58 | 3298447 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

So global warming reduces snow and economic collapse?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:53 | 3298040 DblAjent
DblAjent's picture

How much longer can they fuck us without coming for chrisakes?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:13 | 3298111 espirit
espirit's picture

I had to up arrow your comment, may borrow it in the future.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 16:40 | 3298780 enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

second cuming TY cialis

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:53 | 3298043 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"And Moses's wife turned back to look at the destruction of the City and God turned her into a pillar of salt....

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:30 | 3298164 DosZap
DosZap's picture

"And Moses's wife turned back to look at the destruction of the City and God turned her into a pillar of salt....

Lott's wife, there fixed it for ya.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:55 | 3298249 Vooter
Vooter's picture

*Ronnie* Lott's wife?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 15:03 | 3298464 Blano
Blano's picture

Lot.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:47 | 3298216 bubbleburster
bubbleburster's picture

Almost, but not Moses.

Correct quote is: Genesis 19:26

"But Lot's wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt."  She must have had bad high blood pressure problems.

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