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Guest Post: "What In The World Is A Bitcoin?"
Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,
Earlier in the week, we wrote about an Argentine car rental agency that had started accepting Bitcoins as a means to bypass local capital controls.
We received a lot of questions about the article, the most common of which was “What in the world is a BITCOIN?”
Let’s start by looking at our current monetary system.
In most countries, a small tiny banking elite exercises total control over that nation’s money supply. And we’re just supposed to trust them to be good guys.
Yet central bankers around the world have conjured trillions of dollars out of thin air, debasing the money’s value. It’s a concept any six-year old can understand. If money grew on trees, it wouldn’t be worth very much.
This is one of the key reasons why people buy gold. You can’t just conjure gold out of thin air. It takes years of exploration and investment to pull it out of the ground.
In the information age, though, we have an alternative.
Bitcoin is digital currency. It doesn’t actually exist in our physical world… only in computers.
If this sounds esoteric and far-fetched, it’s not. The vast majority of our monetary system today is already digital.
A very small percentage of all the currency circulating in the world exists in physical notes and bills. The rest of it is merely accounting entries in bank databases. Most financial transactions are just a reshuffling of these database entries. Physical currency seldom changes hands.
Bitcoin is similar in this respect… nothing physical exists. But there are some key advantages.
For one, Bitcoin is not controlled by any government or central bank. And two, it’s private.
In the world of conventional finance, governments can see every time you use your credit card, withdraw cash at an ATM, or make a wire transfer.
Yet with Bitcoin, they don’t have this ability. And this is a key reason why Bitcoin has become so popular, especially in places like Argentina where people are getting squashed by their government.
A few days ago I wrote about an Argentine car rental agency that had begun accepting Bitcoins. My friend Sir Charles of PricedinGold.com was at their office; he snapped a photo and sent me some really great information.
The 1-day rental rate for a basic car was 380 Argentine pesos. At the government’s official rate, that works out to be $74 USD. In Bitcoins, the same car rents for 1.13 BTC… which is approximately $54 USD. This is nearly 30% cheaper!
The benefit for the rental agency is the privacy; they can avoid all the costly fees, bureaucracy, and debilitating capital controls associated with a normal transaction. Plus, they can hold Bitcoins instead of the rapidly depreciating Argentine peso.
If you think that these sorts of tactics– mind-numbing financial bureaucracy, confiscatory taxes, and capital controls– can’t happen where you live, think again.
I was just having a conversation this morning on the topic with Jim Rickards, author of the best-selling Currency Wars and one of the speakers at our upcoming Offshore Tactics Workshop.
Jim reminded me that, aside from Roosevelt confiscating gold back in the 1930s, the US government also imposed a confiscatory windfall profits tax on oil gains back in the 1970s. In addition, for most of the 20th century, capital controls were the rule around the world, not the exception.
To be fair, Bitcoin is not without its challenges. But the prospect of digital currencies presents an elegant alternative to fiat destruction.
If you want to find out more about Bitcoin, this website provides a lot of great introductory information
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Great to see Simon talking about Bitcoin.
Trollcoin.
Matrix money
No one escapes the mafi( Fed, not goomba ).
Cue Drones over Bitcoin.
Cue Drones over Bitcoin.
LOL.... and where might that be, genius?
Gold for saving, silver for groceries, bitcoins for weed and online gambling (e.g. Bitcoin Poker )
Dont forget renting a car 30% cheaper with Bitcoin, in Argentina of course.
And evading capital controls, per article.
It's the only monetary device I can think of that would let you cross the border naked and still have access to funds independent of government control. After food, water, firearms, medical supplies and precious metals are covered, I'd think it'd be wise to have at least a small stash in bitcoin.
I remember back during the end of the Vietnam war, it was considered prudent by some citizens there to have a get-out-of-dodge account, and it proved helpful to those that escaped. Now that the global financial system is no longer free, bitcoin could serve a similar role.
Of course, haters are going to hate.
+1 My sentiments exactly. A part of the whole program. Like having a debit card, w/o Big Bro, IMF... involved.
I wonder how they wanna confiscate Bitcoins. Probably they are looking for the Interwebz delete button in DC.
Bitcoin=tax evasion=Terrorism..........
Money laundering, drugs, guns & hookers! Evil!
You forgot to mention child pornography. Once you mention that, it's game over. If you so much as have a qusrtionable look on your face when someone says "child porn", you yourself are, of course, a child pornificator and can not be taken seriously. It's almost as bad as "Koch Brothers".
I don't think people on the Internet pay for pron?
Well, I guess there are sites in the onion that have CP for free. But I think for the "good stuff" you have to pay. I guess it's the way regular porn was in the 90s. They give you a few teasers and if you want more you have to pay. But I am by no means an expert on THAT subject. I've just seen it listed in the Hidden Wiki and Tor Dir and what I've heard people say on Torchan (the Tor version of 4chan).
Let's call them what they are truly.....TERROR COINS.
Can you buy extra big-ass Freedom Fries with Terror Coins?
only somene with a McDonalds logo in their moniker could get away with that comment
Anyone else worried about a coin whose name implies it can only have the values 0 and 1 (or could it have a superposition of these two states, only taking on the actual value when it is observed/cashed in)?
But seriously folks-as others point out encryption security is the least of your worries with any digital currency. You're depending on the grid structure and the internet-they don't have the record of barter and trust that 2000 years of history suggests gold and silver do.
I think the USD has a proven track record of being the drug dealers (and other 'terrorists') preferred currency.
Good point! Actually, what few people know, is that the EURO is even more popular with that crowd. Reason: The USD has the $100 note as the largest bill. The Euro comes in 200 and 500 notes. Much more handy (scale down the size of the cash-stash by 2x or 5x)! And why it pisses off the CIA and DEA. On more than one occasion have these people demanded large Euro notes, when $100 notes were so much easier to print off in the field (by the CIA, DOD).
FYI... the Euro is much more difficult to counterfeit than the USD notes. All reasons why it pisses off the Fed/DOD/CIA, who are happy to print their own in the field and to help maintain the popularity of the USD and its currency dominance. TPTB know that in the end, most of the drug money comes back to the US -- in the form of Bonds and T-bills, to complete its life-cycle (transferred from the poor/junkies to the rich guys buying bonds, treasuries and stocks). How ironic.
I suppose that was some kind of happenstance right?
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/MB17Cb01.html
Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters Monopoly On Money
The Bitcoin Channel
What? Drug dealing and terrorism didn't even exist before Bitcoin!
"Bitcoin=tax evasion=Terrorism.........."
Is that your opinion, or that of your handlers/bosses at DHS? It's a fair question... if SB is fair game to have his agenda questioned, then it's fair to ask:
A. Who are the FBI/DHS/IRS trolls here, muddying the waters and
B. Can we separate them from the Good Ol' Boys, just having a good time?
I'd imagine there's an IRS troll or two or ten, who are happy to netralize the consequences to the Agency that his advice might have? Ever thought of that?
My handlers?...............lol. Maybe Simon Black is the Troll........ever think of that?
I've found that paying taxes to any of the governments in existence today that I know about is immoral.
FRN = never ending inflation tax = selling one's soul and losing any connection to humanity and reality.... for those who want to be in perpetual agony over an exhausted and dying idea (the idea of central banking) - a compromise that was never even meant to last for long, this might be the right thing.
https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/ Personally, I'll just keep transferring my fiat into platinum and silver.
Yes, Gold, Silver and Platinum are laws of nature, bitcoins are not
I think you'll find that mathematics - which cryptography is very much a part of - essentially is the language of nature.
Hey, downvote me for not even grasping that. Here's me giving a fuck.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/121/249/look-at-all-the...
So you're ok with FRN's as "laws of nature"? Even though you use them? ;-)
The FRN is a 'law of the state' not of nature...............I just prefer to save what little excess fiat, rothschild script I have in Gold and Silver
Yen Cross? I am Long Xau and short dong. The ladies love the Xau dong pair, but not the dong.
Anyway, why not transferring into gold too?
''Bitcoin is digital currency. It doesn’t actually exist in our physical world… only in computers.''
You can carve the private key in stone and ship it around the world.
I see ads for companies selling specialized omputer hardware devices to "mine" bitcoins. Whst is that all about? Is this a tool to "steal" bit coins by cracking them?
In order for transaction to be processed, there needs to be a distributed network of computers running algorithms. To get people to do that, the incentive is that whoever solves the block first, gets some bitcoins. In order to get more coins more frequently, people get faster and faster hardware, which simultaneosly uses less and less electricity relative to its speed.
It's comparable to the typical hardware sold during the gold rush.
I've been saying that for months on other forums.
While I have nothing against bitcoins; just like anything else you got to watch how you obtain it (see other posts of mine either below or on other ZH Bitcoin articles), how much you put/invest into it (in my case what time I have spare not spent on PC gaming or other more recreational activities, no cash/assets will be transferred for bitcoins) and an actual game plan for what your going to do with them (in my case, grab what I can freely or mine using existing hw [not interested in 'shovelware'] and convert half of them into physical assets [and try to avoid swimming near Lake Tip-e-canoe] ).
During the time ZH shared a few articles over the past few weeks and most commentators have been bitchin' about it, I've obtained 0.3 BTC from free sources, had 0.01337 donated from TraderTimm and mined nearly 0.74 bitcoins and all in my spare time they wasted over said 'bitching' for an end cost of $0.00 (or whatever currency you exchange milk for, and yes you can do that with Bitcoins - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1a8idx/i_bought_groceries_with_... ).
Wow, over a period of weeks you made 1 bc... about $40. If you sold big macs and fries you'd be way ahead. Lucky mom doesn't charge for the free room and board. Get a life, idiot.
I love Bitcoin's premise, but I worry about grid failure....just sayin.
IridiumRebel and Meat Hammer are both excellent posters. No electricity= no bit-coins
You are a King amongst Yen sir. I like Meat Hammer for the Harry Caray avatar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrFUBKCONfs
I'm not advocating Bitcoin, but I am advocating robust arguments on Fight Club. Therefore...
"No electricity = a ton of NO things": Including your far more precious phone, PC and plastic cards. Since no rational person would put all their currency into ONE basket (remember your Asset Allocation class?), how is having a $300 or $3000 unavailable for a while? Is it the end of the world, or a temporary inconvenience? Like I said, if the power goes, you'll have bigger problems than the absence of Bitcoins.
Let's keep perspective and balance in our arguments!
+1
Indeed. If the power goes off in about 3 days you're going to have a helluva lot of other problems that will make your inability to access your terror coins pale by comparison. Little details like merely staying alive.
I'm not necessarily an advocate of terror coin, but some of the arguments against it on ZH are silly if not outright disingenuous. Makes you wonder what the underlying agendas are.
PMs have advantages, but disadvantages as well. Like their attractiveness to thieves. Or worse, renegade salvaging outfits who discover the locations of all these boating accidents.
No electricity = no IRS, no bank account, and no need for BitCoins.
But like having some Ag, some Au, some ammo, having some BitCoins might not be a bad idea - it might even be a great idea if you can retrieve your money in a foreign location if/when you have to run.
If there is a prolonged grid failure I'd rather worry about survival.
There's an app for that!
If there is a prolonged grid failure, I'd worry more about widespread nuclear reactor and spent fuel pond meltdowns / melt-throughs.
A nuclear reactor doesn't require a grid for its power does it? (Hint: all reactors (including nuclear ones) generate their own power and distribute via a "grid") Does a pond of water require an external power source for cooling or does it depend on evaporation? So, those two things are certainly not a reason to worry about grid failure. The inability to conduct commerce, transport goods etc. is the problem. In fact, is you had your own reactor of any sort, you'd do quite well in the event of a grid failure.
Learning to think is the most important asset but is always in short supply.
Wrong. Nuclear power plants and spent fuel ponds generally require an external power connection to power the circulation pumps. As a result of long term storage programs being blocked by politicians, the spent fuel ponds are loaded far more densely than they were designed for. As a result, the water must be constantly circulated with electrically powered pumps, or they overheat, the water boils off, then the zirconium cladding melts off, then the slag pile of spent fuel melts together and goes critical and melts through the bottom of the container and fills the nearby river / lake / ocean with massive amounts of radiation, while sending plumes into the air to rain down on nearby farms and cities.
You can sit there and imagine how an ideal nuclear reactor would function all you want, it has nothing to do with reality.
Have you ever wondered why NPPs have diesels? When a grid failure occurs, the reactors have to be brought into cold shutdown immediately. That will take many hours and needs electricity. Without electricity from outside you get it from your diesels, but only as long there is fuel. When cold shutdown is reached it still needs a lot of electricity to monitor, cool etc
If memory serves, that was the problem at Fukushima - the diesel generators were underwater from the tsunami and couldn't be started, and there was no other electricity for miles around.
Loss of offsite power is what caused Fukushima.
No, it was loss of outside power PLUS on-site generators damaged from floods.
I know it's tough, but dry out for a few weeks and you might be able to think clearly again.
The thing about Bitcoins is that, while they may be increasing in value, very few valuable services take them, unless you're looking for some alpaca socks or want to play some Blackjack.
However, I think it is a good idea to trade a $100 or so in fiat for a couple of Bitcoins and just keep an eye on it. I bought a BC a couple months ago for $20 and it doubled in value. I used it to buy a silver eagle, basically for $20 when the spot price that day was $31. www.coinabul.com is a good site for buying PMs with BCs.
If you think you're going to get rich on owning Bitcoins, though, I have an alpaca farm to sell you.
Simon might be interested in your alpaca farm if it's in South America.
He'll feed them chilean blueberries.
"..very few valuable services take them.."
At the moment. Necessity will drive demand, Bitcoin is still about 5 minutes ahead of the mainstream. It is only a beginning, decentralized currency creating mechanisms with no central manipulation are the future this is just the beginning. Unlike dollars the algorithm controls the growth rate and max amount of coins allowed, no helicopter Bens manipulating the currency. Exchange rates will be what they will be regardless of him. It is like physical gold in the sense that one bitcoin is always one bitcoin, same with 1oz of gold, the only thing that changes is the amount of dollars each is worth. It will only be one of many currencies in the end. Neccesity and demand will tell the ultimate tale.
For some people it is about getting rich but that is just short sighted thinking. Decentralized crypto currency absolutely has real world problem solution value in using them that your gold doesn't. Think of it this way you have a gold broker with 2 locations in 2 countries you want to move between both and use gold without having to deal with the hassle of airport security and all the other bs. You go to one have your gold exchanged to bitcoin and have the transaction done at the other end back and pick up your physical. It is no different than doing it with dollars. They take their cut on the process but you avoid all the hassles that go along moving gold or paper across borders.
Believe me when I tell you crypto currencies have some big fans who will (are?) throwing their weight behind this experiment. They want it to suceed to but for different reasons. The govts. are not going to crack down on this only try to catch the tax cheats on the inflow/outflow side of the bitcoins being converted into dollars.
Well, I've purchesed quite a few ounces of silver with bitcoin. I mined them when it was still practical with a regualr PC, now you need a mining rig, so I now mine other crypto-coins, trade them for bitcoins and then buy silver. I figure I'm getting an ounce of silver for a $10 cost in electricity. I suppose I'd be way ahead if I had just held the bitcoins (from $5 to almost $50 in less than a year), but I have no faith in the long-term for bitcoins, I'll trade them when I can.
so the allure of Shitcoin is the potential for tax evasion? just try that crap in the US, see how fast Shitcoin's 'value' goes down the shitter.
so the allure of Shitcoin is the potential for tax evasion? just try that crap in the US, see how fast...
Ah, a Fed-lover! More power! More domination!
Isn't there a kid running a lemonaide stand that you can arrest?
oh yeah, i troll ZH with my fed loving antics.
you got me there, sparky.
so go ahead play jacks with your virtual money all you'd like, it's not for me.
the difference between bitcoin and PMs is really simple: bitcoin can go to zero. and regardless of what you think it's worth, i ain't trading a god damn thing for it. not even asswipe bennybux. those can at least still buy some bread.
Your gold not only can go to zero, one day it will go to zero.
Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters Monopoly On Money
The Bitcoin Channel
I don't know if the allure is evasion as much as a 30% discount. If the opening of an account is that easy why not open an account for 54frn and spend it up. It's not like you were expecting to have the 54frns at the end of the day anyway.
As for the evasion portion of the argument, well, you won't be able to write off as much against your earnings or taxes,(if the expense were deductable in the first place.)
I don't claim to know the future of bitcoin. What I do know is, its future is dependent on the actions of the government. The more that the government interferes in the markets with regulations, restrictions, taxation, bureaucracy and corruption, the more that people will seek alternative means like bitcoin.
Here's a good interview of Tom Woods interviewing Erik Voorhees of Bitinstant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi2WgeJ73IE
A currency without a bank, what's not to like. It's been done pretty well, so far. Something like half of the traffic to some of the bitcoin sites is from the banking industry, suggesting to me that they are very interested in it, and so far haven't found a way to break it. So all good, I've used it, I will do so more, while holding most of my savings in gold.
Max Keiser is predicting that one BTC will go up to $1,000,000. If that's true then the 21 million bitcoins there will ever be will be worth $21 trillion. So Bitcoin can more than cancel out the US national debt. Maybe the Berskankster should be printing benniebux to buy Bitcoins.
We shall call them SHIT COINS.
$21 trln will be the balance sheet of the major central banks in the world in a few years.
The sometimes clever, sometimes funny comments aside, I think it would help a Bit, if we heard from people with actual BC (buys/sell) experience? Thx.
Sorry for interrupting the stand-up comedians. But can take a joke as well as dish it out, right? ;-)
https://mtgox.com has done over $1/USD million in trades in the last 24 hours, which is slow compared to same periods last week where they did $5/USD million in and out of Bitcoin.
So it's not for the big trades at the moment, but most people can cash out anytime they want, https://coinbase.com will buy your bitcoins and deposit funds via ACH into your U.S. bank account.
sure-how many bank accounts should I give them access to? as many as I gave to that new friend I met on the internets from Nigeria?
It's a growth business. Trade volume is expected to grow tenfold next year. Mt Gox trading for US customers will go to Coinlab on March 31. Silicon Valley Bank will store the funds, so at least some small bank gets it.
Want to get in touch with real people? Bitcoin 2013 May 17-19, San Jose, CA
Want to learn real stuff about Bitcoin? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page https://bitcointalk.org/
Only into US accounts, or any account worldwide? Otherwise it sounds a bit like it's for Americans only, or that the account must reside in the same country as its holder. Thx.
I have actual trading experience with Bitcoin. I've been using it for two years. I bought in at around ~$3 and held onto them during the Big Crash of the summer of 2011. When Bitcoin started crawling out of the wreckage last year, I began buying again at ~$5 and kept buying.
Until a few months ago, I would occasionally buy something or donate coins just to keep bitcoins moving around to people that didn't have any. I've recently started moving a percentage of my bitcoins into silver and gold.
My initial investments have been recouped with a very large profit margin and I still have a position in bitcoins should they move back up.
I like Bitcoin berry, berry much.
I did the same thing with Apple stock...............
I get it now, Bitcoin is like stawks and one can buy stuff on the internets with bitcoin...
I'm a little surprised that your people think enough of you to give you a keyboard and internet access.
The article has positive things to say about Bitcoins, but I’m thinking it’s missing some critical information that’s needed for ZH readers to form objective opinions (without requiring additional research). Here are the fundamental questions that immediately came to my mind, and I welcome ZH readers who are more knowledgeable to fill me in.
1. What entity has the capability to create new Bitcoins?
2. What entity received the initial benefit of spending the newly “minted” Bitcoins?
3. Were only a certain number of Bitcoins originally created, and there won’t be any more issued forever? If so, how can we be certain that the entity that released the first quantity of Bitcoins won’t release additional large quantities, thereby allowing them to exert excessive monetary control just as central banks do?
In summary, I believe that mankind needs the capability to perform digital financial transactions, and I support the idea of privacy, but I'm also thinking we need something *real* to stand behind the value of a Bitcoin. In order for me to be willing to trade real value for a Bitcoin, I’ll need the capability of trading the Bitcoin back in to the issuing entity upon demand, in exchange for the underlying asset (e.g., a specified quantity of precious metal).
It would have taken less time to find the answer to those questions than it did to write the post asking them.
http://www.weusecoins.com/questions.php
Bitcoins is a typical ponzi scheme and it is not surprising that charlatans like Simon Blach starting promoting it. It is not money:
it cannot be used as a media of exchange (very few places will accept it) and it does not have capacity to store the value:
bitcoins cannot circulate without powerful resources of the network and there is no guarantee that network will function in case of a real crisis. As it was mentioned before somebody controls the issuance of bitcoins (there is a conjecture that originators of the concept bail themselves out some time ago) and this somebody makes a lot of money. There is an issue with liquidity: if you want to exchange real money for bitcoins , you will have no problems. The reverse operation is a big problem. Some of the so-called exchanges do only one way exchange (which is a clear sign of fraud) and, in any case, you will have a big problem if you try to exchange substantial amount of bitcoins into real money. The related entourage (encription etc) is just for idiots who cannot see forest for the trees.
Absolute bullshit for ignorant idiots (henceforce, shoud be popular on this website).
Dude, if the network ever goes down the loss of your bitcoins will be the least of your worries.
1) Anyone (but in reality you need electricty, an internet connection, computer hardware and some computer science knowledge)
2) There is no entity that could release bitcoins arbitrarily to themselves at any point! Anyone "issuing" bitcoins did it through the same process as it is done today. There were just far fewer participants in the begining due to the project not being well known or worth anything, that's all.
3) See 2) and understand that Bitcoin functions in a manner where all users would need to agree before any change of rules could take place. And when I say all, I mean all.
Bitcoin might not be the ultimate solution, but you better believe it's the first that's actually living up to it's promises and any competitiors would need to do some serious innovating in other to beat it.
Im intrigued by bitcoin but see a major flaw.
How do you securely store them? I see a lot of ewallets but those can easily be shut down by various governments similar to how neteller was shut down in the usa a few years back. All other storage solutions are too time consuming or expensive for the average person. Im fairly tech savvy and have no clue how to go about storing and backing up bitcoins offline, even after a good 25-30 min readng into it.
If there was a way to issue a physical bitcoin without inflating it then that would possibly help. Like a warehouse receipt for the bitcoins. Of course this opens up a possibility of hypotheticating and re re etc.
But i think they are good in a situation where you have to move out of the country and cannot pass thru borders with physical metals or currency. So if you escape to another country your wealth may still be stored in bitcoins.
All in all a very interesting idea but physical metals are still a necessity and a huge overweight to bitcoins, but id rather take a shot on some bitcoins instead of fiat currency. Maybe if i figured out a good way to store them privately and without a huge hassle.
Hardware wallets are being developed by two open source projects. This would entail a small USB key style device that would hold your wallet and unless it got stolen and it's PIN cracked there would be no way to steal your coins, and especially no way to hack them.
A prototype is available for sale here: https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/13429-bitsafe-1-1-hardware-wallet-firmwar...
More info: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152517.0
One other such project: http://bitcointrezor.com/
You can have as many wallets as you like. The wallet I'm looking at is 336KB. You can make a dozen copies and attach them to emails to yourself. Toss an unbreakable password onto them and they are worthless to anyone but you. Be careful though. If you encrypt your wallet and forget the password those BTC are as valuable as the dollars you stuffed in your mattress after your house burns down. Not to worry though. Your loss is everyone else's gain as the BTC still around just got more valuable. Thanks for all the fish :-)
Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters Monopoly On Money
The Bitcoin Channel
I just have just over 1 bitcoin which I bought when it was 9 eypos. I'll keep holding on to it but I doubt I'll add to it at the current price. My idea is that when Bitcoin becomes as popular as Facebook and there are 1 billion users there will only be 1/48th bitcoin per user on average. I'm not buying the $100k - $1million call (except in a hyperinflationary situation) but I do believe bitcoin can potentially appreciate nicely.
I'll only buy more at the current price or more if I have a need for it (e.g. when buying some shit over the internet).
http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/how-cryptocurrencies-could-upend...
How difficult would it be for the government to hack into it and blow it up?
Hack into WHAT?
THERE IS NO SERVER
THERE IS NO CENTRAL CONTROL
Just switch off the interwebz forever, problem solved.
You expect power-mongers to turn off their surveillance grid?
Not likely.
Swiss (CH) guy, are you saying that TPTB therefore "hates it", and that "it burns!"? To borrow terms from Gollum.
I suspect that TPTB will hate it as they realize what it is. Eventually they will want to mount a full-frontal assault.
I suspect that they'll take out the big exchangers, but that they'll do no better with the local exchangers than they've done with the local pot sellers.
If the American government, or maybe the Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans really wanted to, I suppose they could contract Intel or Samsung to mass produce a load of custom computer chips on the newest fabrication, and distribute them all over the place to take over 51% of the network, then they could screw it over by spending the same coins multiple times.
Just ask banks to stop making transfers in and out of bitcoin dealers. Easy and no disruption to anything else. Now you have a forever bitcoin and no way to use it.
How do you stop cash from going in?
http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/26/atm-makes-bitcoin-even-easier-to-access
Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters Monopoly On Money
The Bitcoin Channel
I use localbitcoins.com to pay cash for BTC. No banks involved and all the local barney fife saw was two guys watching a youtube video together. Super squirrel subversive squared.
and now a word from our sponsor...
Bitcoin is a nice concept but what makes you think we'll always have access to the internet? Too many view access to the web as a utility like electricity or water. You can be a Bitcoin millionaire one day and the next day a construction crew "accidently" cuts a fiber cable. At that point you're essentially broke.
How so?
You're a good example that even if people don't understand how bitcoin works, they'll use it. Just like you clearly don't understand how Internet works, and you still use it.
So how does the internet work? Tell me if you know.
Wow, 4 thumbs up. They must be the edumacated onez.
Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters Monopoly On Money
The Bitcoin Channel
Settle down douchee douche
Still waiting for this narrative out of the good old USSA:
"Terrorist networks and drug cartels now suspected to be laundering money through the new digital currency network Bitcoin."
As soon as the US govt gets what it wants (tighter control of the internet) Bitcoin will be vaporized, or used as a honeypot.
Take your pick.
75% of Bitcoins are being hoarded instead of being used for buying and selling. Down the road, a lot of people are going to have their private parts handed to them.
One man's hoarding is another man's saving.
Plus it's impossible to know how much bitcoins are being saved due to it's inherent nature. The 75% number is at best an educated guess.
It seems to me that commenters are treading very lighly on this subject.
I don't get it - must be just me.
Seems like worthless bullshit, but Id be interested to hear why I'm wrong if someone would be so kind.
The lack of serious discussion is interesting.
Money/currency is just a ledger of who owes who what. It's fundamentally just information.
With bitcoin the ledger can't be tampered with easily like with every other money including PM's.
Thank you for the info. But that does quite ring true.
To my understanding money is representative of assets owned as in accumulated wealth - but I did not look that up I guess I could begin there. Does the term money have different meanings to different people or is there not an accepted definition?
There are specific definitions. Money and currency are not the same. Not all monies are currency. Some monies are fiat, some are not. Some monies are a store of value but not a medium of exchange and vice versa.
Well, let me help clear things up for you. Buy low sell high. Price seems high to me now. I could be wrong, but this topic of BTC has been coming up more an more often of late and that is because the price of a BTC these days No one really knows where the price can go but remember that when the shoeshine boy tells you what stawks to buy it is probably time to sell. There has never been a market like this before either. DYODD.
This. I fully expect a repeat of the 2011 run-up caused by a lot of media attention, followed by a collapse and slow recovery. We could see $100 USD / BTC, but I suspect shortly after we could see $5 USD / BTC.
Agreed Matt.
Yeah, a run up from a penny to a dollar and back to fifty cents. Then up to five bucks and back down to three bucks. Then to ten bucks and back down to five. Then up to 30 and back down to 3. Now we are trying to take out 50 bucks. I can't seem to remember what they call that.... Oh yeah, a bull market.
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25
Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters Monopoly On Money
The Bitcoin Channel
I invite you to spare 10min and read this in order to wrap your head around it: http://www.scribd.com/doc/128352919/Wrapping-Your-Head-Around-Bitcoin-b-w
Thanks for that. I read the artical and you are right that it was mercifully brief but it only reinforced my perception that it is fairly transparent bullshit. different != good I am taking the lack of thoughtful comment on the subject as a sign that 1) not worth comment 2) it is something disruptive so we support it passively as an act of defiance pathetic
Haven't we already been through this like 100+ times now? I got some BTC when they were under ten bucks. I do not have any as of yesterday. The concept and system does work flawlessly thus far. I did a couple of transactions and it does work. I still have my doubts about the whole thing but it is my understanding that once all of the bitcoins have been mined there will never be any more. Umm? Well, $48+ for a bitcoin as of yesterday?
If you do not trust BTC then do not use it. It's that simple. I really don't need to hear half-cocked opinions after buying into the idea at $8-10 and divesting at $48 in just three months time! My PM's have kind of just been sitting there which is perfect because that is all I want them to do...just sit there, at the bottom of the lake, to keep company with my guns N ammo. It's amazing to observe the inordinate amount of hard assets that are being lost at sea these days.
One of my complaints with BTC is how do you catalog a MS-64 bitcoin for your coin collection? You can't touch one, you can't grade one and you can't really make a set of them. BTC are not a hard asset but are a big fuck you package to the TPTB in a some ways. The real problem is that BTC is still valued in dollars but then again so is Au and Ag.
Look at the charts, I might be wrong, but I think BTC is in bubble phase right now. Be wary. This does not mean that the concept does not have some merits. DYODD
I was thinking bubble too but maybe because of the worldwide use it reaches parity (correct word?) rapidly. Its been hovering at $47ish for a few days now. Maybe its not a bubble, instead its just got super price discovery skillz. I dunno we'll see if next week brings a price crash due to selling pressure or maybe we've reached equilibrium.
Sorry if my terminology is wrong. I'm just a simpleton gold bug, BTC user that hates fedgov and likes long walks on the beach; from which vantage point I can look down into the water and almost see my sunken dingy.
Some of the excitement over Bitcoin is that it feels like a back door method to subvert Control.
The problem is that when Control is finally up for grabs, Bitcoin won't save the day...
not by a long shot.
Yeah? What are they going to do? Shoot a math problem?
For all youse guyzes so trusting of encryption... have any of you considered the reality of observing pre or post encrypted information?
It's real and all began in the mid 80's with a paper published by a guy named Van Eck and.....
I think the idea behind encryption for the layman is that it can be virtually unbreakable unless you have the key.
I use a codex to get my secret messages across. I do not want anyone to know that I replied to this, so I posted it on the Interwebs to keep the data secure.
do i even need the sarc button on for that?
Wrong tool for the job. If you used Tor you wouldn't need the /sarc.
Agree or disagree please; FRNs are the proper tool for storing wealth and maintaing purchasing power.
Point well taken. Isn't there some guy awaiting extradition.?
Encrypted email? Egads!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/26/kim-dotcom-mega-encrypted-email
Good link. I havent been following Kim. I gotta imagine hes smart, entrepreneurial, etc etc. Now hes offering a "secure" email service kinda like BTC is "secure". My bets on BTC and kim, fedgov is a bunch of losers with guns. They will fail first IMO.
Some soldiers will fall as fedgov lashes out in its death throws. But we will remember the fallen and that they fought and gave for liberty. RIP Satoshi Nakamoto
Brother, can you spare a rai?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones
1 bit-coin = X? SDR's. When the IMF SDR'S are reshuffled in 2015 the US dollar will be further marginalized. At .44 USD per SDR we may see that ratio drop to half that in ten years. Both the Chinese and European economies will be larger. Life in the US will be like Cuba........unless war breaks out before we reach that point. Either Iran or North Korea. I'd bet we pick our next fight with Iran! Argo! Argo Argo!
Bitcoin ETF please?
Your wish is a market-regulated-strictly-by-consumption's (i.e. free-market's) command: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/03/08/first-bitcoin-hedge-fu...
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
Don't knock it 'til you've tried it, and doing by trying the below costs you the time you put to poor use bitching about it on ZH.
For those that have these Bitcoins and think they are a ponzi (brilliant Ponzi that eh, with thanks to TraderTimm again for the freebie a few days ago =) ) I am more than happy to take them off your hands: 1HcpCgL75dG1jmaBJ6y2Dxt9BX6ZCpqgnH
Since people are not busy doing anything special (not like your storming the Fed and decorating the place or anything worth talking about so yes you do have free time) follow the below instructions:
1. Go to this site: https://instawallet.org
2. Save the URL link in the address bar as you will need it to re-access the Bitcoin wallet (if you close the page and don't save the URL you will lose access to that bitcoin address)
3. Make a copy of the string of text under 'Your Bitcoin address':
Example: My new address created for the benefit of this post is this: 1HcpCgL75dG1jmaBJ6y2Dxt9BX6ZCpqgnH
4. Visit a few of the sites listed here (simple enough starting point): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74046.0
5. On each site, paste your new Bitcoin address into the relevant text box (complete the captcha as needed).
6. Wait a few hours and you will eventually get some Bitcoins (well fractions thereof to be more specific). Payouts are batched by site ops to minimise transaction fees.
7. Done, enjoy the free bits of anonymous cryptocurrency (or rinse and repeat 4-6 as I do on occasion) :)
Optional: If you still think they are worthless after doing all the above; then send them to me at that address (other donations also welcome) - 1HcpCgL75dG1jmaBJ6y2Dxt9BX6ZCpqgnH
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
trade it...
+1 for the fresh address. :)
" A person can have many different Bitcoin addresses and, for increased privacy and as the only way to know what the bitcoins are received for/from, it is recommended that you use a unique address for each transaction."
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address
At the bottom, follow the wiki link to the "technical" explanation too.
Sorry if you've been there already. Just covering your 6.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity
The reply is actually welcome :)
The aim of that post (btw. none of those links are 'paid to shorten' links like those by https://coinurl.com/ ) is to try and show people that 'learn by doing' the practical basics of bitcoin; particularly in an easy introductory fashion (not having to read through tomes of technical data about it), not needing to spend 1 single cent on it (not like the time and electricity used to have a whinge about it was being put to good use anyway /observation) with finally the tiny amount for free being a handy bonus for them (or for me if they do choose to send these worthless 1s and 0s my way) :)
Its ODD that the article doesn't mention the "FLASH CRASH" in the value of the bitcoin earlier in the week, or even the possibility of such a thing. I saw an explanation of it, and it didn't make much sense to me, and didn't do well explaining how the value was arrived at.
There was a fork in the blockchain. The community solved it in a few hours by mutual consensus :-)
http://www.thebitcoinchannel.com/archives/579
Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters Monopoly On Money
The Bitcoin Channel
And you know what Yogi said:
When you come to a fork in the blockchain, take it --
or at least something like that.
Everything exists in the physical world, including symbols on a screen which only have meaning as long as there is baseload electricity to power servers.
Having said that, I don't use or trust bitcoin.
Do you trust credit cards? Do you trust banks? What happens when the ATM network goes down? Are these networks not powered by electricity?
Just askin...
You could also bring your version of it up within a local community or corporation in the event of lock out from the existing financial system.
It is the unique system that every nation of peoples would have used to begin with if there had been such a system.
It is code so you or any country or entity can tailor a version of it to meet their specific needs.
There will be new versions of BitCoin once this release reaches its limits.
It's good shit Dude.
I am an old school guy.I wanna stick with something i can touch.Sea shells,salt,fresh meat/about 20 years old,blondie/,whiskey,e,some barbaric relicts too.
I live in a tent and do not fully understand money. I think this is a part of the reason my mother kicked me out of the basement. I hope to have a job as a politician someday so I can get all my bitcoins for free.
I'm setting up a new rival to bitcoin, because I want to be at the top of the ponzi pyramid.
It's called bogcoin.
Let me know if you want to be an early adopter.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#It.27s_a_giant_ponzi_scheme
It's a giant ponzi scheme
In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy.
A ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. In a ponzi scheme, early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters, and the late adopters always lose. Bitcoin has an expected win-win outcome. Early and present adopters profit from the rise in value as Bitcoins become better understood and in turn demanded by the public at large. All adopters benefit from the usefulness of a reliable and widely-accepted decentralized peer-to-peer currency.
Yup its a ponzi.
Read all about it
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#It.27s_a_giant_ponzi_scheme
Hashes to hashes, fiat to dust.
Bitcoin is a distraction as it has the same structure as a fiat currency. So those at the top may be private and not governments everything else is the same.
Now do we all believe central bankers operate a currency mechanism with direct control from the private sector?
If true then Bitcoin is the same, just with no puppet central banker so to speak but does everything else though.