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Silver Slams Higher As Bitcoin Hysteria Shifts To Non-Electronic Money
It would appear that physical assets trump digital assets this morning in Europe as Silver has just spiked over 1% (and Gold back over $1615) as Bitcoins plunge on heavy volume... Did the Europeans run out of Bitcoins? Given the lack of movement in 'traditional' currency markets, one has to wonder just how much faith has been lost in the folding fiat fiasco.
Gold is also starting to jump now...
Charts: Bloomberg and BitcoinCharts.com
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Could be a dead parrot resurrection.
Green arrow for Monty Python reference
eigen I mean this with sincerity, keep em coming man. Every single thread I see you talk shit about metals on, metals spike right afterwards, You are our good luck charm, I say we replace MDB with you because he has become stale and you have a much more substantial impact.
Talk shit? Experts like Izabella Kaminska all agree that precious metals are a bubble.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2013/03/15/1424472/a-new-era-for-gold/
Look, I'm sorry. Please don't be mad. I mean it. I take it back. I did not mean "talk shit". I mean you and Izabella Gary Kaminsky can pose an alternative argument to the status quo on here as often as you like. It just seems very odd that everytime you do, metals spike. Just keep em coming is all I ask.
He's just got the one guru.
If he needs some more....I've got a whole closet full of them.
And I bet there's a lot more room in there since you came out...
[looks up 'Contrarian Indicator' in the ZH Dictionary, finds portrait of Izabella Gary Kaminsky]
Hmmmm. How did that get there?
Strange, I've never seen a flat bubble before.
It is a bit of a disjunction.
Yes, because Ms. Kaminska's background as a journalist definitely qualifies her to give accurate insights and assessments of the market dynamics of the global banking system:
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/izabella-kaminska/6/A56/806
Public Company; 501-1000 employees; CMCSA; Broadcast Media industry
2005 – 2008 (3 years)
Squawk box, Opec Coverage
There are going to be a lot of experts who agree PM's are in a bubble who are going to be proven wrong. Bonds and fiat currency are in the largest global bubble in world history, and yet the experts agree PM's which have served as money especially at moments like now are in a bubble. Learn some monetary history, it's not a matter if PM's will be flocked to, it's a matter of when.
pray enlighten us regarding the current mining cost per troy ounce of gold.
like a douche bag professor who logs on ZH, his First name letter starts with a P and Sur name first letter starts with a K.
At least MDB is funny, you are not!
I'm MORE guessing that Kitco just made an announcement [translated into Spanish], that they'll accept bitcoins for monster boxes...
"It's a perfect chance to short silver."
Please, be my guest.
I'm sticking with silver. It is a lot less volatile.
Bitcoin holders buying PMs, has been discussed by many. When fraud is the status quo, possession is the law. Many routes to possession folks, bitcoin is but another (highly volitile) route, that's all.
There is a site that sells gold & silver for bitcoin. That is where all the bitcoiners should be headed today. Trade it for tangible assets while the price is still inflated.
exactly.... someone is catching on.... shit... better move fast to the precious metal stores
shorts being overwelmed
calling jamie - get this under control...
Nope, this is just the beginning of what we have been so patient waiting for. You just go ahead and short silver. Make my day.
Sprottie is pulling out all the stops to stem redemptions - Scotia Mocatta must have taken his shares in PHYS as collateral...
Dammit Bernanke, you stupid motherfucker, you're supposed to be keeping a cap on this until all our positions are in place, asshole. You are without a doubt the worst chairsatan ever, and once we've used you up and blamed everything on you publically you'll be kicked right to the curb where your sorry ass belongs.
Kicked to the curb is better than hanged by the neck, for the Bernank, he'd likely take it.
Personally, I'd like to see an Orangutan rip out all his facial hairs in patches, as a prelude to hanging.
edit: and kicked to the curb, after hanging.
The Bernank is looking for the exit, by the sound of this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-21/bernanke-saying-he-s-dispensabl...
He just starts to realize how bad it is, getting out before SHTF.
I predict the re-emergence of the Guillotine.
I'm guessing that European bank deposit chart is going to start looking pretty ugy, sooner then later.
Silverrrrr, bitchez!
+1 Just checked and my silver is safely chilling in the safe! Bitwhat?
If Europe ran out of bitcoin would'nt that cause the price of a bitcoin to skyrocket? Kind of like Kyle Bass being told by the comex "price will solve everything?"
Whatever happened to the deer?
Bernanke ran it over with the bus he is driving with the brake lines cut. It never had a chance.
It has been replaced with horse, just like in your Big Kahuna burger.
Another typical step function move in the perfectly fair and not-maniulated (because the COMEX and CFTC said so) PM markets.
Oh well, this one's OK if you're long.
It's not the right time, the price will come back down. The bankers have much more capacity to loot still, and loot they will if we don't stop them. In the end, if they've looted all the currency, the price of PM's might be ridiculously low in cash, but astronimically high in human productive value. Anyway, there is no (un)reasonable price, it's all imaginary till it gains real value. Wait for the desperation.
Shit, all my bitcoin profits blown to bits this mornin.
In cyberspace....no one can hear you scream.
Look again. Over 53 Euros, $68.25 USD.
No offense but $0.30 is a slam?
With the way these fucksticks have been jamming it when it down when it hits $29.01...
Yes it is a slam.
North Korea?
Cover up of Syrias chemical use?
Couple rockets fired at Isreal while Obama visiting?
Cyprus?
Predicting stocks?
All of the above?
"Couple rockets fired at Isreal while Obama visiting?"
Hope and change?
BullionByPost in the UK had its best day ever on Monday. The silver move is just starting.
I can send someone 50,000 dollars worth of bitcoin from the US to China right now with the click of a button. You cannot do that with dollars or any other currency without massive resrictions, fees, taxes, ect, ect. You certainly cannot do it with gold or silver. Something to think about. Bitcoin does have its place
Bitcoin great for a quick in and out. Putting your life savings in there indefinitely, probably not such a good idea.
Listen, I WANT to believe in bitcoin, so not slamming, but to the argument of "you can send it to timbuktoo, no cost", I ask: How many will actually be going ex-pat ? I'd say not too many, outta 330M, what 300K, at MOST!?
Already there... left long ago. Sorry, but unless you are absolutely loaded, or have actual roots in your target destination that ship has sailed and you missed it.
More and more every day.
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?ID=905
bitcoin effectively demonstrates there is no longer a need for banks. People can handle their own finances without banks.
I think that's part of its novely, it's a currency without a bank.
When the European Central Bank demonstrates that it is willing to steal 6.7%-15% of your bank depsits - PM's take on a whole new luster and value.
When the U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman condones said stealing when asked directly, they shine even brighter.
With ATM limits and so as not to arouse "suspicion" it would take you a couple of days to gather the cash and make PM purchases.
I would guess sales in Europe for Gold and Silver are brisk.
Not so much with silver. TPTB steal, aka the VAT, about 20% plus the transaction costs on a silver purchase.
Bartering will evolve in broke countries like Cyprus. People are waking up late, and better later than never..
Make Mine Shiney!
The Voice of Russia:
Could Cyprus's gold reserves play a part in the crisis?Russia 24, the Russian state news channel, reports that under the current plan that is being discussed by the Cypriot parliament, the Central Bank of Cyprus will sell its gold reserves in order to cover a part of the 5.86 billion euros demanded by the Eurogroup. Other sources of financing the country’s “contribution” include such outrageous measures as a special levy on bank accounts and the expropriation of the money held by the Cypriot pension system, so everyone’s attention is diverted from the sale of gold. The gold reserves of Cyprus stand at 13.9 tons. While not a big amount in itself, these reserves represent “physical gold” not “paper gold” which makes it very valuable from a market manipulation perspective. If the central banks and financial institutions that are suppressing the gold prices are running short on “physical gold”, then each ounce of real, assailed, not rehypothecated gold is priceless.
http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_03_21/Could-Cypruss-gold-reserves-play-a-par...
So this "idiotic savings tax" was a play to buy phyzzz, you're suggesting?
I'm suggesting everything, including invisible balls.
I didn't know that pensions were on the table, too.
Why use the gold reserves to cover the shortfalls, when the Bundesbank has offered 10:1 gold backed loans? You get ten times as much bang for your buck, and a chance to get your gold back.
The USG will kill bitcoin.
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-bitcoin-dies.html
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/03/rip-bitcoin-i-think.html
FinCEN just issued guidence on "centralized and decentralized virtual currencies". Here's the analysis:
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/fincen-bitcoin-users-not-regulated-exchanges-...
Stupid article. Basically he says Bitcoin will be shut down because they are used for money laundering. Um well then they would have to shut down the USD too, ya know. Fail.
is hope a fundamental?
Uh oh, looks like Blythe took one too many Ambien last night...
I remember when Alf Pogs were hot.
How is digital money any different than fiat currency?
If you take the trouble to educate yourself you will discover that it is very different.
Correction. Silver FUTURES contracts slam higher. This is the paper market, not physical.
At the moment there's no "paper" market in btcoins. People buy BTC the price goes up, they sell it goes down. Watching the price movements is what should be happening in the PMs if it weren't for Jamie's cohorts..
where is this downfall of bitcoin value today? camp bx is reporting 70.00 a coin @ 8:27 cst today
MY apologies to everyone.......
My Bitcoin algos are still in the experimental stage....
again my apologies
Folks should be real careful with Bitcoin - with all the talk of market manipulation that is one market no one really knows anything about. Way riskier than anything else. It is like trading Zynga bucks except anyone can print it.
It's like any thinly-traded market. Big orders (+ or -) can move the price alot. But there are futures & options...also very thin: https://icbit.se/
"If you don't hold it...you don't own it."
Old Chinee Proverb
When the Japanese army confiscated their gold (and shot the owners), they didn't own it anymore.
Now the CIA, or the CIA's owners (that's not the American taxpayers), owns the gold, having confiscated it from the Japanese.
There are reasons DHS is buying all those billions of hollow points. Gold confiscation may be one of those reason. Owning a significant amount of physical gold could get you killed in the not so distant future. They will call the gold hoarders "financial terrorists". The people that don't have any gold, and the msm, will say: "good riddance".
Fiat currency on its death bed - the ultimate rise of real money has begun. So long banksters. Happy retirement.
I have learned a strange thing in the ZH comment threads the last few months, a free market is to be feared.
Bitcoins lack an army and something like a CIA to back them.
So if bitcoins become more popular, it could get interesting. The US will either wipe it out or take it over "at arms length" and create "pseudo" competition.
Embrace and extend.
...and extinguish.
i sincerely hope zerohedge could take the lead to denounce bitcoin and educate investors about bitcoin's ponzi and fiat money nature.
bitcoin is just another form of fiat money , only far worse!
1. it is essentially no different than any other virtual tokens used in multi-user electronic games and virtual communities. so it's NOT valuable outside of the cummunity. its value is NOT universally accepted and will never be.
2. unlike gold/silver, commodity money, bitcoin does not exist in physical form and its existence depends on computer technology, and the community(in #1). thus it is NOT fungible!
3.it is a digital token backed by nothing, i.e. fiat money. any other community could set up another ring of bitcoins with arbitrary supply.
4. it is heavily tilted towards early adopters. it becomes exponentially difficult for latecomers to mine it. this is similar to a ponzi scheme.
5. bitcoin uses a crypto algo, which might have a backdoor too just like any other crypto algo.
6.in a doomsday scenario, when the computer network goes down, bitcoin networks is doomed just like the banking system.
anyone who believes and plays bitcoins should re-read econ 101. i recommend what has government done to our money by dr. murray rothbard.
jesus christ! i plead ZH to spread the word!
Who doesn't use "crypto algo"? Banks? Governments? SWIFT? Business everywhere? Cryptography and Public Key crypto (PKI) in particular is used EVERYWHERE!
PKI is not impervious to attack, but for most *practical* puposes, outside of using Quantuim Computers which are not utilizable at the moment, PKI is very very expensive & completely impractical to break.
The code bitcoin uses is Open Source available to anyone to scrutinize. Bitcoin, in addition to being a "currency", is a protocl similar to HTTP ("the web")or SMTP ("email"). Nobody owns it. They choose to use it. Remember the internet before HTTP? I do. Awkward. HTTP changed the game in a big way. Bitcoin will have even greater utility.
Decentralized peer-to-peer easily transportable and hidden money is a GAME CHANGER. As for it being shut down, good luck with that. Outside of turning off the Internet, which affects many more than Bitcoin users, peer-to-peer is not easy to stamp out.
If you want to talk money systems subject to manipulation control and "backdoors" look no further than the dead presidents in your wallet. Worldwide fiat money is the real con! On its deathbed - especially with stunts like Cyprus happening. The world is beginning to wake up.
Exactly dude. It constantly boggles my mind that the good folks here at ZH fervently believe this economic system is coming down (agree), while at the same time entirely ignoring the frailty of our information matrix. The internet will always be here, doncha know?
Bitcoins will be a curious memory for some. I wonder if anything has been written about them on paper.
The principle is simple, folks. If you can't hold it, it ain't real.
No clue.
Four main advantages:
1. No counterparty risk (like PMs in that regard). There is no counterparty.
2. Anonymous (when done correctly).
3. Impervious to capital controls. At a recent conference they did a live anonymous transfer from China to the US at zero cost. Try that with fiat or PMs.
4. Can't be debased. Strict control of new issuance.
I expect prices to fluctuate wildly until adoption gets larger. The opportunity is not mining the coins, waste of time. Buy, hold, trade, move. And buy stuff, there are thousands of merchants that accept it.
Can you use bitcoins in electronic slot machines?
Online holdem is more fun :-)
https://sealswithclubs.eu/
Epic bitcoin plunge.
::turns monitor right side up::
Oh...
Bitcoin is like a shoehorn. Once the new shoes are on the global financial system, the shoehorn will no longer be needed.
Last price:$68.44900 Bitcoin 7am PST
I just saw that. Holy fuck
Gold's jump was overdue, since GLD inventories were being drained. Declining GLD inventories, contrary to conventional wisdom, is bullish for gold as explained here:
http://www.dowtheoryinvestment.com/2013/02/dow-theory-update-for-feb-26-...
I'd personally be happy if the GDX I bought at 36 popped above and held 38 for once...thinking of ditching it after seeing that pennant form on the daily.
*Note this is a short term trade to help pay wedding costs*
a 1% slv move and you nerds wet your pants
If you can't hold phyzz at least buy PSLV which isn't running a fractional reserve silver ponzi scheme like SLV.
it's not a 1990s Flashback !
Wall mart sell a pair of jeans for 9$, a cell phone for 10$, a galllon of milk for $2.89, you can get decent car for $13,000 and house prices are Now Back To Early 2003 Levels.
Where’s the Inflation?
Bitcoin until a jpm 18.000.000 Ghz. bitcoin underminer is coming in to rape you.
Yep. secret government project makes a computer a trillion times faster than all the computers on Earth, and uses it solely for the purpose of gaming bitcoin. Makes sense.
Yeah, the same clowns who put a man on the moon, NOT. Good luck with that :-)
Plata pura, baby!
As the ever-eloquent Beavis and Butthead would say, "Boi-yoi-yoi-yoi-yoinggg"
Bitcoins are completely safe, based on the latest cryptography. Remember how the Japanese code...wait, that was cracked and they lost 4 aircraft carriers at Midway. Forget that. Now the German code was completely different, superior and...wait, that was cracked as well by the British.
Well, just because codes were cracked in the past, by humans using sliderules and long division, does not mean humans will crack today's super codes using super computers.
So, buy'em up!!!
Christ with that line of thought you must shit the bed at night dreaming about the scary internetz.
Alaska senator Ted Stevens, Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, said the internet was a "series of tubes". Same level of intelligence.
Silver and Bitcoin, the crucifix and holy water of central banksters. Get some more and watch them melt.
Silver For The People
The Bitcoin Channel
I get all warm and fuzzy every time I trade paper for metal, I grab the metal and hurry out of the coin shop thinking they will change their mind when they realize I gave them worthless fiat. So far so good...
I DONT UNDERSTAND BITCOIN, CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN IT TO ME? I STUDIED ELECTRONICS ENGINEERING AND THE FACT THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND CLEARLY HOW ITS VALUE IS CALCULATED WORRIES ME A BIT FOR ITS FUTURE !...
BASICALLY IF NOBODY UNDERSTANDS IT, THE DAY IT DROPS EVERYBODY IS GONNA BE SELLING LIKE CRAZY SOMETHING THEY DID NT REALLY UNDERSTAND IN THE FIRST PLACE.....
All money (except cash & PMs) exists as a digital accounting ledger entry. You trust that your bank has a ledger entry with your name on it that shows how much money you have. You must trust your bank that they keep this ledger entry safe and don't let anybody hack it. You have what's called "counterparty risk". The counterparty is your bank.
In the case of Bitcoin, the ledger is distributed to every one of the hundreds of thousands of Bitcoin users. It's "peer-to-peer", distributed. Like the internet itself. Every user keeps a full record of every transaction ever performed. So you're not trusting a counterparty, because there is no counterparty.
The Bitcoins themselves consist of two parts (like all two-factor encryptions): a public key and a private key. The public key is part of the distributed ledger mentioned above, open for all to see. The holder of the private key for each Bitcoin becomes the owner of that Bitcoin and can move, hold, or spend them however they wish.
When they designed Bitcoins, they wanted to model it after gold and the qualities that have made gold valuable for millenia. Gold has two main qualities: there's a finite amount in the Earth's crust, and it takes work (mining) to get it, which keeps the new supply limited. With Bitcoins, there is also a finite total amount, 21 million which will be reached in the year 2050. The "work" that must be done by Bitcoin miners is in the form of a math problem that must be solved, which then gets them new Bitcoins. This problem gets progressivly more difficult so the rate of new mining stays about the same. Top miners are now using ASIC (application specific integrated circuits, designed just to solve Bitcoin math problems) in multiple racks. Hopefully close to cheap hydroelectric power, because that seems to be the limiting factor. Bitcoin mining is well out of the reach of private individuals today. There are some botnets doing mining as well.
There are multiple exchanegs where Bitcoins can be bought and sold for "real" money (USD, EUR etc). The largest is Mt. Gox, backed by one of the top Silicon Valley VCs Fisher Draper Jurvetson. These exchanges are the risk point and many have been hacked. The trick is holding your Bitcoins in a "wallet" that is safe from hacking, the exchanges all have their own wallets. Some people prefer to buy their Bitcoins at an exchange, then transfer them to a private wallet, or better yet to a piece of paper, for safekeeping. You can also buy physical Bitcoins if you want.
So:
1. No debasement;
2. Cannot be confiscated;
3. Cannot be controlled;
4. No counterparty risk.
Damn it, a silver thread according to the title, but you start in reading and it's all bitcoins.
Knowing nothing of bit coins, I can only add
Silver, Bitchez!
Gah, Bitcoin. Fiat without even the backing of corrupt governments, or the value in ink and paper behind it. You can "mine" them in a manner not too dissimilar from how you mine gold pieces in World of Warcraft (that ain't a currency either), so that somehow makes them valuable, despite the fact that computing cycles are essentially free in the modern world.
And just to add the final nail, if the power goes out, all bitcoins cease to exist. You can't buy, sell, or transfer bitcoin without electricity. Let's buy a hedge currency that in the worst case scenario, when you most need it, simply does not exist...brilliant!
I've changed my mind. I hate bitcoins. I've decided that I like, make that LOVE, getting porked up the pooper by banks in their never ending quest to manipulate every asset and financial instrument they can lay their hands on.
So I traded all my bitcoins for some hard tack, some silver, an AK and 50,000 gallons of water and am hiding in the shed until this all blows over.
You go girl!