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Who's Next? Italy's Monte Paschi Admits To Billions In Deposit Outflows
It appears, given news from Italy today, that European depositors are increasingly coming to the realization that deposits in their local bank are not 'safe' places to put their spare cash, but are in fact loans to extremely leveraged businesses. In a somewhat wishy-washy, 'hide-the-truth'-like statement on Monte dei Paschi's website, the CEO admits to, "the withdrawal of several billion in deposits." Of course, the reasons why these depositors withdrew their capital from the oldest bank in the world will never be known though of course he blames it on "reputational damage" from their derivative cheating scandal. Apparently the fact that this happened to come about six week after said scandal and the bank's third bailout, and that the prior two bailouts did not result in such an outflow of unsecured liabilities (at least not to the public's knowledge), was lost on the senior management, as was lost that a far greater catalyst may have been the slightly more troubling events in Cyprus in the second half of March. Unsurprisingly, as Reuters notes, the CEO declined to give a forecast on the level of deposits at the end of the first quarter of 2013; no wonder given the bank just doubled its expectations for bad loans and the 'Cypriot Solution' dangling over uninsured depositor hordes.
Customers' deposits at Italian bank Monte dei Paschi fell by "a few billion euros" ... the bank said in a document posted on its web site on Saturday.
...
But it has yet to make clear what impact the scandal itself had on its first quarter results.
"The illicit nature of the derivatives trades and their consequence on the bank's assets exposed the bank to reputational damage that was immediately translated into...the withdrawal of a few billion euros in deposits," the bank said in a document for shareholders attending its April 29 meeting.
...
But he declined to give a forecast on the level of deposits at the end of the first quarter of 2013 or to indicate the outlook for net interest income and loan loss provisions.
A quick glance at BMPS' capital structure shows that there isn't a whole lot (read: almost any) of impairable securities below the unsecured liability (i.e., deposit) level. It is also obvious that when the bad debt impairment begins and depositors start getting whacked at least senior bonds, which should be pari passu, will feel the pain too as per the Diesel-BOOM doctrine, although we doubt this particular case of pain sharing will bring much comfort to any and all uninsured depositors in the oldest bank in the world.
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Re: OpenEyes
If you read below- To me it seems like the limit of 250K is per insured depository institution or IDI. I think if it spread about in enough banks they claim they will insure it up to $250k. When the S&L crisis happened depositors had to wait as much as 10 years to get paid back. With 2 companies we have been spreading it out everywhere and it complicates many things. I am thinking about thinning it all out to skeleton companies and just going physical. When they do lower the insured amount to 100k, they will probably crash it. Who knows what they will pay you back with- I am certain it will be something that will not cause any capital outflow from tptb...maybe worthless banks stock etc. So, I see this will be the way it goes.
Beginning January 1, 2013, noninterest-bearing transaction accounts will no longer be insured separately from depositors’ other accounts at the same IDI. Instead, noninterest-bearing transaction accounts will be added to any of a depositor’s other accounts in the applicable ownership category, and the aggregate balance insured up to at least the Standard Maximum Deposit Insurance Amount (SMDIA) of $250,000, per depositor, at each separately chartered IDI.
For example, if after the expiration of the Dodd-Frank Deposit Insurance Provision a depositor under the single ownership category has $500,000 deposited in a noninterest-bearing transaction account and $250,000 deposited in a certificate of deposit, or total deposits of $750,000, the depositor would be insured for up to $250,000 and uninsured for the remaining balance of $500,000.
Another win for the Fed. Tally-ho
In the USA as of the first day on this year, the insured limit is now an "aggregate" on sums under insured status. So spreading the money around in different banks won't help in a general bank failure. Gold bitchez!
I think it is per institution or IDI. (See above)
No multiple accounts or even multiple banks won't help.
The money isn't there.
Even of you are first in line, they don't tell you when they will pay up.
More than $10.8 trillion in deposits are insured by the FDIC with a $33 billion insurance fund.
Please read above, multiple banks is still the solution at this time. That being said I agree- there will be no payment in full to any but the most well connected. Most will receive a piece of paper saying they have ownership of something completely worthless by the time it is accessible.
Good observation Duke. But remember when Cambodia collapsed people who could carry their valuables were able to escape or buy their way out with gold coins. My neighbor is a Cambodian refugee from back then and said if his family did not have enogh gold coins to bribe various people on the way out to Vietnam then into China and then Canada and finally to the USA he would be dead.
How about the Jews who escaped Germany? They carried precious art work and gold.
And so on thru history. Problem with real estate (houses, etc) is that they tend to get confiscated, esp the nicer ones for obvious reasons. It's sad we all need to consider these rough things now but so be it. The times demand it, eh.
its only electronic money; what goes round comes around.
After the preplanned Cyprus events, this is slowly becoming the kitchen sink of LEAKS to the media:
- Canadian budget "bail in" on page 144-145
- Former bundesbank chief Axel Weber came out as the one pushing for buying of greek bonds.
- Monte dei paschi capital drain
What else is going to be "leaked" during the next 2-3 weeks?
Blood?
A lot of it, I'd say.
Something is happening.
The reset is starting
Italians, get your money out now!
Where to?
It seems to me somebody is sticking it to the bankers. They are being bashed world wide.
People are focusing on bail-ins, I'm focusing on who's getting the blame and who is going to show up as the .......problem solver.
Mattress, Gold, Silver, rope, pitchforks, vodka, kerosene, rags, lighters.
Exactly, exactly. It is not supposed that people be pushed to do that. You understand what I'm saying?
That will bankrupt the banks. The worst thing to get is bad press.
This is civil war inside government. Have you noticed Obama has gone quiet after Bob Woodward (military's man) attacked him?
In other words, forces against the bankers or competing with bankers are pushing the people to remove the money, hence collapsing the banks.
Some OTHER FORCES are asking for a couple of more sacrificial lambs from the bankers, same as in 2008 with bear stearns and lehman.
Things getting very messy on the inside...I follow you. Dislocation then, is an ablolute.
ekm, carry on.
There are only two major forces competing or cooperating inside gov:
1) Military complex
2) Banks
Check this comment of mine only few minutes ago.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-30/25-lessons-cyprus-deal#comment-3392097
Banks know who will defend them = Military Complex
Military Complex knows who will finance them = Banks
I always did like math.
Misleading I'd say.
It's the military that feeds finance, not vice versa. Funding with fiat money by use of a computer is NO LONGER funding.
Military makes sure dollars is backed by crude oil from the gulf.
Do you think Saudis will side with the military or the bankers? Hmmm, easy answer. The military.
Not much longer. Some legion is going to carry their general around on their shields. History does rhyme.
Who's going to be the modern Constantine the Great?
you've cut & pasted this a few times and truly believe that military feeds finance; but, can you provide historical precedent and pattern that keeps repeating?
edit: your question which you also answered yourself:
my take: saudis will side w/ banksters because that's where the money is and banksters are the ones that pay the military
Yes I can.
When gold/silver was actually the only money, Abraham Lincoln asked the bankers for loans. They said no. Lincoln reacted by creating paper money, the dollar.
Today, gold/silver are not money officially. Money is created by computer. Gov gives permission to banks to create money, gov can take the permission away to create money.
Creating electrons is a looooooot more easier then creating gold, which Lincoln could not do.
The reason the world accepts electrons as money, is because the military puts a gun on the Saudis' head and tells them: Sell oil in dollars or you're screwed. If you don't accept our offer, you may as well become an iranian province.
The Saudis are ok with it, that's why the world accepts the dollar as reserve currency....still.
Satisfactory answer?
the issue i have is that you
but the evidence appears to suggest, even using your example, that banks pay the military. if private banks dont fund military, the gov't creates its own bank and pays the military. i appreciate that you have a fan club that is giving you thumbs up on this hypothesis; however, i simply dont see the loop where military feeds finance. in my history books, the military gets paid by the state and the banks fund the state (minus taxes, etc.). you appear to suggest that banks and finance cannot exist w/o the financial support (feeding??) of military, i.e. the military pays/supports the banks.
further:
not in a country, such as usa, where the government is bought, paid for and answers to private (banking) interests.
further:
not true. whether it's electrons or just credits in ledgers, the world accepted $ before saudis were even a player. besides, s.a. will always side with other oil exporting countries willing to form a cartel. i'll check your reply in the morning if you care to think about it. i am not saying you're wrong; it just appears, to me, that there is a flaw in your critical thinking.
All I'm saying are conjectures based on my observations.
Conjectures get proven correct/incorrect by facts. The more I read the more I get convinced that military industrial complex is the silent ruler, not the banks.
I have no facts yet. I conjectured that Lehman was preplanned and it was proven correct. I conjectured that Cyprus was preplanned and it was proven correct and other ones I can't remember.
My new conjecture is that the military complex is opposing the bankers. Time will prove me correct/incorrect.
To my surprise many people find what I write interesting.
theories are fine; but you made a statement of fact that "military feeds finance". that is not conjecture. that is a statement of fact. and your hypothesis appears to be build on that fact. my retort is that if there is a flaw in your input data, the analysis can be pristine, but the conclusion will be, by default, flawed. and this should not surprise you:
there's a lot of commentors here that lack critical thinking skills and are just goofing around
Objecting what I say it's quite easy. You even use the word "believe". I do not believe blindly in what I'm saying, I simply look at what's happening around and draw conclusion which could be correct or incorrect later.
My thoughts are presented on ZH for critique and feedback. I've enhanced my thoughts here.
Asking for flawless logic is quite academic, it's quite theoretical. Are you an academic?
What is your proof then, that finance feeds military? Show me the proof, please.
that's what i am offering you, critique and feedback for further enhancement
further,
the proof i've provided is that usaf get their paycheque from the usg. the banks fund the state, congress comes up with a budget and usaf gets paid from that budget in usd; therefore, it is clear that usaf does not go to s.a., gets oil from s.a., sells it on the market and then pays (feeds) the banks; thus, making banks dependent on the sales skills of the usaf to trade oil for usd(??) and give it to the banks.
I am talking about world demand for USD, not american demand for USD.
Why would the world exchange goods for dollars?
Answer: Because the world needs oil. They go to the gulf and the sheiks tell them to go to Washington to get some dollars to buy oil.
It's the army the makes the deal possible, not the banks. The banks simply type up on computers.
Fiat money in the form of electrons, has made the bankers very vulnerable. Anybody can do it now, even bitcoin can.
The bankers cannot behave like the ones with Lincoln and withhold the gold, since they can't withhold electrons.
Time will prove me correct/incorrect.
We'll see.
okie dokie
There's no such a thing as 'unflawed logic'. Only when one possesses all the SECRET fact, then you have the moral right to talk about perfect logic.
We are building conjectures from available facts and observations.
New facts and observations can prove us correct or incorrect. It's quite a good brain exercise and quite efficient to improve logic.
I disagree about the commenters. Everybody has something interesting to say, from time to time. Sometime one single comment from somebody I didn't pay attention to before, opens up new thoughts.
Thought improvement never ends, never. Unflawed logic does NOT exist.
all i am suggesting is that any hypothesis must be tested against facts. i make a statement of fact that usaf gets paid by the usg, i provided proof (above or below), and refuted your theory that usaf pay the banks to operate, presumably after the usaf gets paid by the gov't.
I am talking about WORLD demand for usd, not american demand for usd
To argue logically you have to start with a first principle
You have not given me any facts to change my mind. I am ready to change my mind if you present facts.
The world started not to accept dollars, that's why De Gaulle wanted the gold back, hence Nixon told him no and got out of gold arrangements. You've got wrong facts.
US enforcers took a trip to Ryiadh and settled the issue very well.
have it your way and keep up the good work
Cut-paste is a lot easier than retyping.
So you're saying, Saudis will align with bankers who will clip 40% of their money into bail-ins.
Sure????
this is not what i said:
first of all, banks will not clip s.a. 40%. i dont know what specific bank you're talking about. what i said is that saudis depend on banks to get paid. and that's what they want. to get paid. the military is there to protect the trade. that's all. furthermore, what i implied is that the us military will not disengage from the us command, partner with s.a. to protect trade with other foreign countries on behalf of s.a. it's even silly to suggest that s.a. would purchase us military to act on behalf of s.a. at best, s.a. can indirectly fund the us military by recycling their $ into us t-bonds but that is where it ends. usaf get their pay cheque from the usgov. and the usaf will not bite the hand that feeds it. furthermore, the military oath is to the us constitution.
Your thoughts are quite academic. It's as if you're quoting from main stream media.
That's why I'm on ZH, I haven't had a TV since 2001 because I don't want to be brainwashed by mainstream media.
yes. you're right. i am the poster boy for msm. i just cannot help it.
re: MIC vs. Banksters and who "feeds' who.
USMC Major General Smedley Butler seemed to have a good idea of who was the boss and who was the employee...
IMO the banksters are at the top of the food chain via controlling the debts that are created by the MICs/wars(not just American, but on a global basis), corporate, oil, or Wall Street interests.
Look into the subject of interlocking directorates(corporate boards), guess whose interests are always served and a representative presence is there in corporate boardrooms no matter the industry. Here's just one example.
So whether it's an oil corporation or one of the military industry corporations, the bankster will have a presence(or three) in their boardroom. Now then as for the actual military(as in the 'top brass') lets consider the revolving door concept. You think that General or Admiral is gonna fuck up his chances for that cushy corporate job after he/she leaves the military by pissing off the bankster/corporate world while he/she is active duty? Not in today's world.
Look at all those 'retired' top brass sorts who came out of the woodwork to pimp the war on terror at it's beginnings on the corporate media outlets. There were banksters smiling approvingly watching their little 'ex-military' puppets performing for the cameras. Sure they'll put on a little show every now and then telling us how some Pentagon bigwig cancelled some way over priced weaponry project. But there were probably 30 more like it that just kept on going during the same time frame.
very nice; but please dont let ekm in on this information, it might mess up his hypothesis.
Pseudo, I tried having this discussion with EKM..........he has no idea how the American empire works...........He has no idea what the petro-dollar is and how it works.............
Bankers and Tankers are tied at the hip.........They live together or they die together
I am trying to discover things. That's it.
The whole point of the 'EMPIRE WORK" makes no sense.
How do you know how it works?
Make me change my mind.
Show me how the system works by not repeating what cnbc says.
I do not think most of people agree with me here. People think what I write is interesting, but not necessarily agree.
Looking back to 2007-2008, bear stearns and lehman are the pounds of flesh military complex must have asked for.....just saying.
what verifiable fact, or perhaps information, makes you think that
wtf would usaf care about lehman, stearns, et al when the military has its hands full in mena? which particular part of the military is biting the hand that feeds it? i hope you can appreciate that once you reconfigure your hypothesis to be somehow in sync with facts, rather than erroneous ideas that you hatched, your conclusions will not make sense. i also appreciate you gathered a fan club that signed up to this silly theory of yours and you just are not able to step back, re-evaluate your input data so you wouldnt disappoint and lose your cheerleaders. but the fact will remain, in spite of what you concoct, those who control the creation and flow of money control everything. banks create money and military gets paid (by banks/gov't) to create wars.
Incorrect
Nothing is scaring me more than Obama's "withdrawal" from the media since Bob Woodward attacked him for the sequester on the military.
The way I see it, he is letting both sides, Military complex and Bankers fight it off and then speak with the winner.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a4d84f3c-83ee-11e2-b700-00144feabdc0.html
http://www.lockheedmartin.ca/us/news/speeches/031412-stevens.html
Let's see.
Zero is only a schill for the Chicago mob. It doesn't matter what he does or says. The only sign of intelligence on his part is that he takes lots of vacations which shows that he knows that he truly amounts to a tit on a bull.
Fully and totally agree.
But he is doing the smartest thing he can, I'd say. Just get out of the way.
https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/318100679233257473
We have Obamma lying low, Draghi has dropped out of sight - for WEEKS now. Monti says he `can not wait` to leave office in Italy.
In Cyprus we have a disaster for many hard working honest people and a very clear warning for the rest of the workers/savers of eaurope -BANKS ARE NOT SAFE.
I am trying to enjoy quiet wekend with my family, but I can not shake the feeling that somewhere something big is broken. That the grip on the rug is being strengthened prior to pulling, that the muddle along and print strategy is coming to an end soon.
As the gentleman from soc gen said:
What's happening is above Draghi's paygrade. Bankers are being sidelined right now.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-30/25-lessons-cyprus-deal
Points 3 and 8
Hornet's nest.
You messed with the wrong Marine son....!
I think he has his own "group" and when it all goes down he and his group will have the answer "follow me" FORWARD.
You mean we were lied to when they announced there were no obvious changes in withdraw activity? I am shocked that what was easily predicted is happening and that we were lied to.
For God’s sake, please don’t tell anybody, but I hacked into the Bureau of Labour Statistics (BLS) last night to find out their secret statistics making methods. I found an encrypted file marked “statistics production methods” and this was what was in it. They use:
Anthropomancy – the entrails of unemployed men are read to determine U6 figures Gastromancy - stomach noises are used to determine U3 figures
Gyromancy - walking in a circle- they observe members of the White House staff to see what new laws might actually get passed that could affect the economy
Myomancy - movements of mice – they watch Congress and lobbyists Omphalomancy - knots on the umbilical cord are used to determine household formation
Onychomancy – fingernails – they look at worn and bleeding fingertips to see how many people are still scratching out a living in the heavy manufacturing sector.
Tyromancy – this one is about reading cheese; did not really understand it but looks like they stole it from the French Belomancy – arrows, apparently as an emergency measure to determine markers. They shoot arrows into the air, but where they land they do not care.
Necromancy - you really do not want to know this one....
ZH readers can see the full report at: http://tinyurl.com/cwm8e3s
I think trust is leaking away faster than fiat at this moment....
Brilliant
Cyprus. Who knew you'd be the canary. Now, the poor bastards are going to watch their economy utterly collapse. In short order, the troika cunts will be telling them to cut this and that, which will lead to more depression. Always look on the bright side, Cyprus may recover in 30 years.
Not the canary, the guinea pig.
At least the saying is no longer "the chance of a Chinaman." (With apologies to our Chinese friends not to mention the poor devils who were viciously abused by the railroads and miners in the nineteenth century).
"Dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature."
What is possibly wrong with the word "Chinaman"? So now talking about "A man from China" is prejudiced? Is it equally wrong to refer to a "Frenchman", or an "Englishman"?
This reminds me of how I have been criticized (invariably by idiots) in recent years for using the longstanding and commonsense word "Oriental" to refer to people from the Orient (i.e, East Asia), instead of the stupidly vague, ambiguous and overly broad word "Asian" --- which logically includes ALL those from Asia, such as Indians, Arabs, Turks and Russians. But that of course is not the politically-correct definition of the word, which is in fact "Oriental" but without using that word.
Honestly, where do these arbitrary and nonsensical, hypersensitive, politically-correct redefinitions come from, and why do so many automatically buy into them?
They buy into them because it makes them feel good about themselves.
This is what being politically correct is all about, it means you are a "good" person (one of the mob) regardless of reality.
It's fishing for self-esteem, and an offshoot of the tree of juvenile narcissism the society waters and fertilizes on a regular basis.
Take "Gay Marriage", what a canard, what a ridiculous emotional exercise in cul-de-sac logic; it hurts gays, it hurts heterosexuals, it hurts the society.
Civil Unions so you have the same "rights" as a married couple under tax, estate, and other laws? Fine. Who cares. I don't care if you are Gay and want to commit to each other. More power to you. But seek the rights by trying to re-define marriage? Stupidity itself.
It's like trying to change the definition of "Christian" as someone who believes in the Giant Spaghetti Monster, or "Muslim" as someone who has an oriental rug somewhere in the house and gets on their knees for something. You are just pissing people off trying to re-define an institution. DUH! Destructive to all, beneficial to none. Let's define "Gay Divorce" first, eh?
Honestly, where do these arbitrary and nonsensical, hypersensitive, politically-correct redefinitions come from...
Mine came from The Big Lebowski.
What the fuck are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
just don't treat objects like women, man.
Fuck it dude, let's go bowling.
Honestly, where do these arbitrary and nonsensical, hypersensitive, politically-correct redefinitions come from, and why do so many automatically buy into them?
They come from the left and their giant brain-washing machine, i.e., educational system. The left knows that if they can define it (or redefine it), then they own it. Whatever they own they can control, i.e., your language, and hence, you!
.
Now we know that pigs can fly
canary pig
pigary
guinary
cannia
Naryig
Guinary is my favorite. Now let's try it in a story
It was early one morning and the dew was still forming. Through my window, I watched the sun rise. I noticed the bird feeder hanging from the eaves was nearly empty. As I sat contemplating my day ahead, along came a Cyprus Guinary. He landed on the perch of the now empty bird feeder. He remained firmly gripping the perch as he looked around and chirped as if expecting me to refill the seed jar. Ten minutes passed, then 30, then 3 hours and still there he sat wating for his seed.
Three days later, I came back from the store with some freshly milled bird seed and went to fill the feeder. Lying dead on the ground beneath the feeder, I found the Cyprus Guinary .
Y A Y !!!
There is yet hope that the masses are awake.
My ivy league economic professor told me. If a derivative fell in the woods, no one would hear it.
/sarc
'A few billion' most definitely translates into 10 billion. Come on guys
ug, double posted
lol, I wondered when someone was going to make that observation. My immediate thought, upon reading "several billion" was, Yah several billion times 10.
Let's go over this, ONE MORE TIME. If you leave ALL your money in a bank (paying .25% interest) you are a FUCKING IDIOT! You deserve to be broke and homeless.
So what enterprises and/or arrangments would you refer private retirement accounts, IRA and 401K account holders, to?
Most, if not all, 401k owners are screwed as they cannot "withdraw" monies (there is the "loan" exception) while employed. I actually considered approaching my employer to fire/rehire me to get around this, but thought better of it. I've been withdrawing IRAs for the last 5 years and paying the tax and penalties - it was very hard to bite the bullet the 1st and 2nd years, but like skipping church, it got easier and easier - especially as it continues to unravel.
More info leakage on "resolution" authority being slipped into U.S. & U.K. law:
"FDIC & Bank of England Create Resolution Authority for Unlimited Cyprus-Style “Bail-Ins” for TBTF Banks!
On Wednesday, SD broke the news that Canada had buried a provision for depositor bail-ins for systemically important banks deep inside its official 2013 budget, and stated that the Cypriot bail-in was not just a one-off event, but is in fact the new collapse template for the entire Western banking system.
We suspected that the same policy change had been made by the US & the UK, but was simply yet to be discovered, buried in the website of a Federal agency.
We suspected correctly… "
http://silverdoctors.com/fdic-bank-of-england-create-resolution-authority-for-unlimited-cyprus-style-bail-ins-for-tbtf-banks/
Be careful for you wish for. They’re stringing you along to complete the next chess move. It’s nice to see many awaken individuals. Yet, you have no idea how to counter the invisible changes. Start digging deeper, the information is only a key stroke away. You’ll see.. just begin your research process.
Happy Easter to all.
Instead of being all cryptic and shit just say it or at least post a link.
Sorry, no can do. I can provide you direction, but no secret answers. That’s your purpose in life, making a difference to society. I imagine you don’t understand now, in time you will.
Gee, can you vague that up for me, Mr. Miyagi?
A Chinese fortune cooky provides more wisdom than this dipshit of an answer.
& McMolotov
My time spent in warning has come to a close. Not sure of my exact date in joining ZH. Just remember the early zerohedge.blogspot days. My future is to begin focusing on ME, not YOU. I have spent too much time trying to awaken the dead. I see a real awareness globally, it has spread rapidly. Thank goodness.
Again, my job is done. It is now your turn to resolve how you form your future. Your conclusion will never affect me, only your actions will plant the foundations for the next 200+ years. Be wise, be choice full, and learn from your mistakes. Good luck with your endeavors.
Happy Easter to all. God bless each one of you..:)
Tyler, terminate my ZH account. Thank you!
Goodbye, Easter Bunny, goodbye!
I think Superman just called it quits.
Did Atomizer just open up the 7th seal??? Apres Atomizer, le deluge???
LOL.
Don't go away mad, Atomizer. We'll all subscribe to your blog.
LOL.
And his name was Atomizer.
LOL.
Atomizer. we hardly knew ye.
I don't want to wait five years. I say we raise Atomizer's jersey to the rafters right now.
Jesus Christmas, now I gotta read your years of posts to find the fucking clues and who knows? Maybe you'll be wrong or off a bit. This whole "dodging the end times" is becoming work.
People will be poring over Atomizer's posts for decades slowly tweezing out one pearl of wisdom after another.
Armstrong warned Euro broke support and could see 1.21 this week.. bitchez
Where is all this withdrawn money going - SnP futures?
"0.1% interest on savings deposits with the now VERY REAL THREAT OF COMPLETE CONFISCATION in the US & UK doesn’t sound like such a great return to us.
The Fed appears to be making a calculated play to force savings out of the TBTF banks and into stocks and real estate, a move that is likely to backfire spectacularly."
http://silverdoctors.com/fdic-bank-of-england-create-resolution-authority-for-unlimited-cyprus-style-bail-ins-for-tbtf-banks/
This shit gets confusing. If the banks have been using excess deposits to buy equities/bonds then people pulling money would cause the banks to have to sell equities/bonds causing the market to drop. That would cause people to sell out of teh market.
Like Ekm has been saying....this was all pre planned. They are causing the scare. If they did not want to cause it nothing would be leaked to us sheep in advance.
So they want us to pull our money out of the banks and collapse the banks...why?
To cause a global currency crisis leading the way to one global currency? Eh...I don't know.
For fun?
Because they know the shit is hitting the fan? If that were the case they would be pulling money out and definitely not leaking us any info telling us to do the same.
why else?
I remember when this whole thing with Cyprus began, someone here (DoChen maybe?) posted a link to Mr. Lennon Hendrix's blog, and he believed the proposed solution by TPTB will be a "cashless society."
It makes sense that the easiest way to usher in a new global electronic currency would be to encourage bank runs (and cause chaos) and then sell an electronic currency as impervious to the threat of bank runs. It's that whole Hegelian problem-reaction-solution thing the assholes in charge love to pull.
yeah the only thing I find odd about it is all the cyber attack segments the msm have been running with. a digital currency seems to go against that idea. But hell anythings possible.
I am starting to think this push to cash is some sort of red money plan on a global basis. flush as much money out of safe havens and into the economy. Risks be damned.
Now you've got me thinking about the red money thing, which also makes sense. Although, bank runs plus cyber attacks could equal global electronic currency and a clampdown on the internet.
This Machiavelli shit always gives me a headache, or maybe my tinfoil hat is just too tight.
no shit man.this stuff can drive u nuts
the excess reserves on the banks balance sheets are used to buy DEBT not equities. MASSIVE amounts of debt (take a look at those junk bond yields. WOW!) equities are FAR easier to "wiggle into" since they're traded daily, have a "name" and "some shit they sell to some dude" and then make claims as to the veracity of it all. Good luck finding that in the a debt instrument. they have "convents" or some other thing. and as with anything going on in a convent "you don't want to know once it's broken." point being the Fed needs to get people off the whole "front running debt binge treadmill" and get them to start building say...NEW PLANT AND EQUIPMENT. who knows...maybe they'll even hire somebody. right now "it's all about the real estate" and that looks and feels an awful lot like Greenspan Bubble. but hey..."while the music's playing you gotta dance" so "that's my story and i'm sticking to it" is the operative phrase now.
The credit union i use to simplify utility payments got hit a few months back, shook me pretty hard, completely realigned allocation after that.
Website down, phone lines off, me and a few people who won't have that shit in line.
I asked others i know that use the same institution if they were worried.. They shrugged. "back to normal" now, but still leery.
Fonz, why does the withdrawn cash have to go anywhere except in a safe for now. I really can't imagine that people would buy into that, would they?
I think that is where it will go, and that is where this whole thing will go off the tracks.
Because they own everything, slave.
...
Your not the only one pondering that... I've been thinking about that for years.
You can't help those who don't want help, and sometimes you help others by helping yourself.
Edit: Why did you remove the comment?
I'm thinking that the derivatives ARE the target. Everyone knows these things are THE hazard and that they need to be diffused. How do you go about doing That?
I think some of it may be going into the US markets and US bonds and large US banks. I would really like to see the price of gold start dropping and massive outflows from the GLD be reported weekly. I know the spin will be that gold is done but the truth is more likely that the paper is being dumped for phyz.
If this is the real deal like everyone believes it will be proven by physical asset prices being separated from paper prices.
Not sure about that.
If money is being scared away on purpose, there's not much use of that money.
People who hold gold and bonds in large quantities wouldn't sell them in exchange for money flying around looking for a collateral to hang on to.
if you hold GLD or SLV right now and have one half ounce of a clue what is going on in the world you are selling, taking the cash and either hoarding it or buying a real asset with it.
That is some interesting stuff...bankers vs MIC. If that were true and i had to venture a guess on the winner i'd say some bankers will be found floating face down in various places at some point soon. but that's just a shot in the dark pun intended.
LOL
I love your sense of humor.
Is it a play to finally try and wake up the sheeple perhaps? Lack of faith easily transcends to hyperinflation. The game is up no doubt and maybe this is the time from what you are saying ekm. They need this to happen as the game is indeed up. What can you do with masses of liquidated money? Where does it go? Is that the ultimate question? Some argue that you can't do anything with gold once you have it. Hard to trade, not many uses in a world where TS has just HTF. But what else can you do with millions, billions of dollars (whatever amonut you have). Your not exactly going to go out and buy a football fields worth of whiskey and smokes to trade. Most elites will turn to luxury items and extremely attractive realestate first. We already see that real estate inflation in pockets around the world.
The only logical way, IMO, to store your wealth in a convenient way outside of luxury goods (and luxury aint gonna do you much good in times of chaos unless you have the arsenal to defend it) is in PM's. Sure, its good to have stores of food, tradeables (cigerettes and alcohol maybe) but the large money has to go somewhere. In the absence of millitary force, I can only see upward pressure on gold and PM's.
The money created and slushing around in the shadow banking mess is just too too too too much.
Too much money creates:
- Hyperinflatin if it is accepted in exchange for goods and services
- Total collapse of world trade, if it is NOT accepted.
I think the 2nd is happening in a slow motion.
The second is happening, for sure. Inflation is happening as well, baked into the declining quality of goods at flat price over time. Quantitative easing is qualitative tightening. You can not "math away" poor quality, you can only feed on market inertia or slow response. QE is a one-time event. It is lighting the fuse.
So, collapse of trade does not preclude inflation or its evidence.
Something to ponder?
A while ago, I posited the theory (to my circle of friends), that all of the actions by TPTB have 2 things in common: a) TPTB always gives advance warning of what’s coming, and b) all of their actions work towards a specific goal.
Now, if you’ve been paying really close attention, you know that:
1) Society is being purposefully driven over the cliff (financially, socially, etc.)
2) Certain individuals at the top of the game are calling for a 90%+ reduction in human population, to restore a condition of “sustainability”. Think Georgia Guidestones, people.
Try to look at it from their point of view: With a population of 7 Billion people, how do you determine who lives and who dies? War is too slow, and doesn’t cause enough loss of life, but has drastic environmental impacts. Virulent diseases could have too many unintended consequences.
But: The smartest segments of society, rich or poor, always have “self-preservation” as their primary instinct. By TPTB creating lots of different problems, the smartest among us will do whatever we can to mitigate the effects of these problems in our lives.
Case in point:
Many people here bought PM’s as a way to preserve their purchasing power, and protect themselves from the paper games.
Some ZH readers are preppers/survivalist types, trying to live as “off-grid” as much as possible.
Now, people who do these things (buying PM’s, guns, ammo, storable foods) are constantly bashed in the media as “tin foil hatters”, nutcases, etc.
In spite of the labels or the social stigmas that get applied to these people, they still do it, because they feel it’s necessary. They’re paying attention, even though TPTB are telling them not to, and that it’s a bad idea.
If you’re TPTB, how do you determine who lives and who dies? Create chaos to the point of social breakdown. Whoever’s left gets to live.
The question to ponder, is this:
Since TPTB always find a way to let us know what’s coming next, are they actually hurting the people who have the foresight to prepare?
Perhaps it is their intention that the smartest segments of society should live, meaning that in one sense, they are actually on our side (by telegraphing their punches), and it is we who are misguided in thinking that we should take the side of the “Sheeple”.
Just a thought.
"Society is being purposefully driven over the cliff (financially, socially, etc.)'
No, it's got more to do with physics than human design. If anything, TPTB are yanking the controls over the "ship," but the ship is a model, a TOY, which is at the mercy of physics (refer to my last paragraph below).
"Certain individuals at the top of the game are calling for a 90%+ reduction in human population"
Feel free to provide references.
BTW - Mother Nature WILL reduce the human population. As long as we continue to point fingers at each other we'll miss the REAL reason why we're fucked (the practice of perpetual growth on a finite planet).
Seer: This is a short overview of it:
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/the-ruling-elites-agend...
There are videos online of interviews in which the people named in the above link explicitly state the purpose. Feel free to search for them, you'll see for yourself.
Also, reference the Georgia Guidestones.
The MSM is owned by TPTB, as are Hollywood and the music industry.
I respectfully disagree that it's more about physics than human design, though physics plays a part in it;
On one level people (especially younger people) are socially-engineered from the time they enter school, all the way into adulthood.
If you read up on the history of public "education" in this country, you find that it's less about teaching young minds, and more about propagandizing/programming children.
On a financial level: The Central bankers have a pretty good idea of the reactions that their actions will cause. Economic collapses have plenty of historical precedent, and anecdotal evidence abounds.
The crisis is engineered from start to finish, and the grand design is about accomplishing numerous objectives at once.
Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis.
My guess is two bankers floating in ponds or whatever will be all it takes for the surviving central bankers to be calling on Putin with hat in hand offering him anything he wants.
What would Putin want with a bunch of worthless bankers? He's got PHYSICAL resources, no?/minimal debt and a large military.
Take ALL of your cash out of US banks.
The interest they pay is practically zero and negative if you include inflation.
Put it under your mattress or buy gold and/or silver.
I prefer to buy gold and silver, fuck the banksters.
Ha! Gave me a great idea!
Make gold and silver mattresses! Kind of like that guy from India with the shirt made of gold!
This would provide added security:
1) You can literally sleep ON your PMs, rather than above them (stuffed under the mattress);
2) Theft of your PMs will me MUCH harder (than someone just reaching under the mattress and pulling them out); one only need to reflect on when one is moving residences how fucking hard it is to move mattresses!
This is what a collapse looks like .... like the twin towers coming down .... you don't see this everyday .... the tower on the roof .... started to wiggle .... then the implosion .... you don't need any thermite or c4 .... it will fall of it's own weight !
Monedas: People only see the collapse when they are looking at the pile of rubble. They never see the warning signs beforehand.
Mossad orchestrated controlled det? Yep, looks like it.
Always accept money from bank tellers. Never give them any. A couple days of everyone doing that and the drug addict banksters will be jumping.
“A deposit insurance system is like a nuclear power plant. If you build it without safety precautions, you know it’s going to blow you off the face of the earth. And even if you do, you can’t be sure it won’t.”
—L. William Seidman, Chairman, FDIC
March 28, earnings reporting at NY Times, makes the March 30 website posting of depositor withdrawal an intriguing one. NYT has the CEO stating:
“This balance sheet is a turning point and reports a bank that is very different from the recent past,” the chief executive, Fabrizio Viola, told investors in a conference call, adding that the new management’s review of the bank’s finances were complete and that there were no more unwelcome surprises lurking in the books. "
Why didn't he air out the drop in deposits March 28 along with "no more unwelcome surprises lurking in the books" and instead does a weekend website announcement that can only hurt his shareholders?
“The value of goods are expressed in money, while the value of money is expressed in goods. Money and goods are clearly not the same things, but are exactly opposite things. Goods are wealth which you have, while money is a claim on wealth which you do not have. Goods are an asset; Money is a debt. If goods are wealth; money is clearly not wealth, it is negative wealth, maybe even anti-wealth.”
– Quigley, Tragedy and Hope, pg. 44
It's ironic...most people, afraid of having their money stolen at home by local thieves put it in a bank where it is free to be stolen by global thieves.
when it all comes down to it
aren't we all
just ironies bytch ...
Fucking crazy keeping money in a bank. I got my shit out and totally disconnected from banks back in 2000. It's fucking silly to talk about spreading your savings around in various banks. It's like telling an armed mugger he can only check one of your pockets. Anyone who thinks their money/savings are safe because they don't live in Cyprus is a delusional twat. If you don't understand that people on this site have been saying loud and clear... GET YOUR FUCKING MONEY OUT OF ALL BANKS, IN EVERY COUNTRY... then you deserve to lose every fucking penny.
So erm I guess we should be referring to past ZH posts?
"The "Big Three" Banks Are Gambling With $860 Billion In Deposits" (01/17/2013)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-17/big-three-banks-are-gambling-860-billion-deposits
Examples of: WFC, BAC, JPM
So when they decide to drop the hammer and make deposit outflow happen big time...
lever that up 10x
hypothicate for another 10x
then rehypothicate that by another 10 x
and were talking some serious change..
how to change a billion ..into a trillion
Going down?$$$eom
Can you say "BitCoin"? Can you say "Gold". Can you say http://www.gold-price-girls.com
FDIC: Fractional Deposit Insurance Collapse !
FDIC: Fractional Deposit Insurance Con
FDIC: Fractional Deposit Insurance Chance
FDIC: Fractured Despot Ilk CONvention
FDIC: Your deposits are fully insured and 100% yours, until the crap truly and quickly and broadly hits the fan, at which point they aren't, at which point, you got nuthin'.
Literally fiddling whilst Rome burns.
With the UK, US, Canadian and European governments all putting into motion "bail-in" legislation at about the same time, I recommend businesses who have owners with a little courage do the following:
When the employees do their tax preparation and have to count the cash that is stolen from them every pay dayday, they may take it personally after reading of CA civil servants getting over $400 K a year in retirement benefits including performance bonuses even when no longer working. Those $37 billion war ships which don't have enough firepower would also be questioned. A lot would be questioned, wouldn't it?
This bank crap is really impairing my enjoyment of the NCAA tourney.
I have Shittygroup and Bank of A-steal-ia in the championship shame.
Fuck you, Bernanke (thought I'd throw that in just for giggles)
I'm waiting for ZH to write about the speed with which bank runs will reach across the Atlantic. Any more sign of "liquidity austerity" over in Euro-land, and I figure the time frame to bank runs and/or capital controls in most European countries will be measured in days. When and if that happens, I'd like to know to what extent American and Canadian banks will be locked up tight.
I wish I understood hat this shit meant. Of course, I've been saying that all my life.
For Whom does the bell toll? It tolls for thee Italians.....
Free Platinum Contest and Thoughts on Palladium
No joke, enter your best guess by April 23rd and Win 1/4" Platinum Liberty Coin
Enter soon, only the first correct pick wins.
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2013/03/free-platinum-contest-and-though...
http://cdn.socialtrade.com/comsys/imgs/liberty-coin_LfV7Ij_m.png
Also some thoughts on Palladium, a potential 3 bagger with a compelling story.
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2013/03/palladium-investing.html
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2013/03/palladium.html
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2013/03/pgm-platinum-and-palladium-funda...