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Meanwhile In Precious Metals And Virtual Currencies...
The old 'new normal' precious metals smackdown has made a few appearances since the Cyprus debacle started but this morning's drop is impressive (given the lack of movement elsewhere) as gold drops back below pre-Cyprus levels. There is one 'currency' that is surgung in value though - Bitcoin is now trading at $107.36, up from $46 pre-Cyprus...
Gold is now back below Cyprus levels and Silver has been sliding...
But Bitcoin has been surging (looking somewhat parabolic longer-term)...
Charts: Bloomberg and BitCoinCharts
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Just pulled the trigger on a tube of 25 Silver Canadian Maple Leafs. If they continue to monkey hammer gold any more this week, I'll pick up 5 or 6 Gold Eagles to go with them.
Wake me up when gold hits $960. Once we get there and wash out a lot of stale and disappointed bulls, then we might a big run to $3000 or $5000 an ounce on inflation.
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So, what's the problem? Banksters as of yet have not found the key to destroying Bit Coins. In every other currency they have been able to cross-trade it and figure a way to fuck their currenies up. It now has a target painted on its back. Could they invest a few billion to run up the price, get many new people involved and then liquidate in a massive and sudden redemption. Would this relatively small system be able to handle the manipulation if it were done on a large scale?
This is a theory with some thinking behind it.
Most universities and many government research labs have computer clusters that can mine Bitcoins at a faster rate than almost anything a normal person can ever dream of owning.
Bitcoin has gone parabolic on very little volume. Like there is no demand for tulip bulbs, but some guy just paid $100k for one anyway thinking there is going to be a mad rush for them.
If nobody is willing to sell because they think the price will rise. Then it is up to the miners to bring new supply. At that point one goverment lab can mine coins for a few days and sell them at a huge discount to the current price. Then you watch the lemmings jump off the cliff.
More bullshit from adr... Awesome stuff, man!
1. computer clusters that can mine Bitcoins at a faster rate than almost anything a normal person can ever dream of owning
It's like saying that Buffet can buy more GS shares than a normal person can ever dream of. Yes, and rightly so, he's got the moolah. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
The same goes for your friend from MIT.
2. Bitcoin has gone parabolic on very little volume
Bullshit. Volume on various exchanges is up 200-400% since last October.
3. one government lab can mine coins for a few days and sell them at a huge discount to the current price.
Why would they sell them at a "huge discount"? Oh, yes, I see, you're not talking about your scientist friend, now you're claiming there's a government conspiracy to use large government labs to create and then dump a large amount of bitcoin on the market? What a lunatic!!!
Except that the level of difficulty is rising and there's no way they can churn out enough bitcoin to crash the market. You're confused, this isn't SLV or GLD.
who cares about bitcoin? what is the traded volume in this virtual crap anyway?
In the last 24 hours, looks like:
$44 million in transactions: http://blockchain.info/stats
and $75 million in Forex: https://mtgox.com/
So we can see that ~3/5 of the volume is going in/out of other currencies; pretty speculative, but still a decent amount being traded between people.
Now, of the $45 million, approximately $11 million is bets on satoshi dice. That means another ~$11 million in winnings, for a total of about $22 million, or approximately 50% of all transactions by value.
Silver will be the greatest wealth transfer in the history of the world, it will also be the culprit that takes this whole thing down..but people sleeping on bitcoin are fucking up, it will go well over 1k per...Litecoin will follow and its also very cheap right now....
Please expound on your thesis of silver wealth transfer.
No sarc, I seek only clarification.
Crude/Corn/Copper/PMs--alll gettin' hammered at the same time. Copper and Silver are trading almost parallel with one another. Weirdo world.
Only 3 thoughts on BitCoin and actually one I like.
1. Whose the lender of last resort? Where you go to get your money back when somebody goes bust! You can just see that one coming a mile away.
2. Not keen on replacing a fiat currency with a virtual fiat currency that is "mining" (could be printing) more coins with no attachment to reality.
The one I like.
3. The model being implemented in Bitcoin and money creation. I so love this one and it has just started give it time and start comparing growth alongside a fiat currency / economy to reveal the differences and the wonderful deflation of debt mechanism. That could be interesting and on 3. why government would likely shut it down so as not to put it in your face how you have been robbed.
I'm not in any hurry to give up anonymous cash for the inherently trackable Bitcoin.
I'm not in any hurry to give up anonymous cash for the inherently trackable Bitcoin.
Welcome to the free market. That thing we all wish existed, but when one is developed by regular people, everyone is suspicious of it... any wonder why we all have centrally planned economies?
It is not a fiat because there is no government ordering anyone to use it. The market (aka people) are choosing to use it. It is also not an unlimited supply which means it can't be diluted over time (excluding the future invention of BTC derivitives). The divisability ensures that enough can be spread around to everyone... just like golds ability to be subdivided into smaller bits.
Sounds like the same argument for PM confiscation. I'd be really interested in seeing the government shut down BTC, since it would require the raiding of every machine operating on the network, including in the darknet, in every country. Sooo yeah, good luck with that one, they can't even stop DVD's from being downloaded. Need I even mention how effective prohibition works against something people want?
> 1. Whose the lender of last resort?
What lending? There's no lending.
(Sorry mate, but this question is a perfect example how clueless trolls lower the standard of discussion without having a clue how Bitcoin actually works.)
> 2. coins with no attachment to reality.
There couldn't be more attached to reality. You cannot possibly produce more than 21 million coins, and you cannot possibly outproduce others to get a bigger share because the only way to churn them out is very resource-intensive computing. That is no different to mining PMs (before anyone gets excited, I am not claiming bitcoin = PM).
It is theoretically possible that a group of core developers goes nuts, changess the formula to increase the number of coins, and releases a new version. I think the Bitcoin protocol prevents such nodes from joining the network unless they constitute a majority, but that possibility doesn't even bother me to the point where I would care enough to go find the answer.
"somewhat parabolic" LOL
So let me get this straight. Bitcoin has more inherent value than PMs? Muaahahahaha
Bitcoin does have more inherent value than manipulated paper PMs! Without the paper slam, PMs would be doing as well or better than Bitcoin.
I can't argue with that. I was thinking physical though.
Time for a Bitcoin false flag. Maybe something involving "human trafficking".
Usually when the MSM talks about them, they focus on the point that "they are used to buy illegal illicit substances online"
Yep, I was surprised to actually see an article on Yahoo news about bitcoin until I read the second paragraph that talked about purchases of illegal and illicit material.
I bought my last bag of weed with cash.
feds eye the bitcoin http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130325/03034522451/feds-take-step-closer-to-trying-to-regulate-bitcoin.shtml
BITCOIN ETF,s coming soon to an exchange near you
Gold and Silver stackers all need to take a deep breath and remember that owning pm's is not a day trade. Currencies are in deep trouble. Tptb are DESPERATE. The cocksuckers know it's all or nothing RIGHT NOW. The sheeple are waking up to the fractional reserve scam of the century. Let them place Silver at $1 per oz,, think people will stop buying?? If you own PM's, continue to do so. Lets see where the 'price' of them are at in five years.
Oh so the 25 maples I bought last week, the retards think I should sell that as a loss? Uh...no thanks, I think I'll hold for the REALLY long term. If the price denominated against fiats goes down I'll just buy more. 50 coins a month ain't bad, and a gold round every once in awhile. It's just funny-money I'm not using anyway and lower prices to me present a buying opportunity.
There is no reason why silver stackers cannot own BTC as part of their portfolio.
i'm cornfused, it BTC an alternative currency or an investment trade? why are BTCs valued in $?
BTCs are valued in $ because they can be. They can also be valued in EUR, GBP, YEN, Gold, Silver and Platinum. Consider what you mean by 'valued'
Absolutely.
I buy a bit every month, but if the price drops another $1, I'll double the usual order size.
Yup...once again, DON'T COUNT YOUR PHYSICAL PM HOLDINGS IN DOLLARS. Count them in ounces. Price is THEIR game. Weight should be yours...
Until btc will be forbidden somewhere or the code is cracked. Bitcoin flying around without being taxed is funny money, like today. A lot of people stepping in a small pool will indeed give flows like this. But the day will come that someone pulls the plug. It's like paper metals.
I'd be willing to argue that it is closer to a virtual-"phys" market... Bitcoins are not traded with synthetic derivatives of bitcoins. The markets trade currency to bitcoin, not currency to contract for bitcoins. When you buy a bitcoin, it is removed from the market, until it is sold back into it. Much like the reason we all buy and hold gold.
As long as the BTC system remains intact, bitcoins "exist". If people have faith in the integrity of the system, so be it.
At this parabolic point, I'm not sure if it's a good time to get in anymore... but who knows what the value is of a currency that is unmanipulated by governments and central banks. But, I've been saying that since it was $20/btc. At least I bought a few of them just for fun back when they were $10.
I understand your point. I am hardcore though, btc's will be confiscated or taxed like deposits, or bonds, whatever. When it becomes a threat to the system, petrodollar, gold backed yuan, game over. Anarchy money, can't have that.
The house of cards continues to stand. Important events are ignored, gold is sold off, markets climb higher and all levels of debt seem to increase exponentially, and derivatives on debt are being sold at ridiculously low prices. WTF is wrong with these people! Doesn't anyone remember back 5 years ago? This isn't going to be pretty when it goes!!
Who was it who said something about music playing and dancing?
Why the f*ck would these c*cksuckers care. If it goes down in flames, it'll cost you another $10 trillion. What's the problem?
if only i'd bought BTC when approached about it in 2011.. fuck. maybe i still have those printed redemption sheets somewhere...
someone above mentioned something about btc being the template for a world currency, although i find that hard to believe, the concept is persuasive.
At what point are we forced to abandon rationality for the new "reality" that faces us? For me. likely the day before the whole thing comes crashing down.
Monthly Spot Gold still looks bearish.
http://bullandbearmash.com/chart/spot-gold-monthly-climbs-marginally-march/
Gold priced in US Dollars is more likely to fall - as unpopular as this sounds.
It's popular with anyone who wants to buy more...
Bitcoin is "Open Source"?
Alll that means is the code is free to download. In normal open source software users are free to change the code, make improvements, manipulate it, etc. If you wish to sell the sofware with your improvements, you are allowed to do so. See Linux for example.
Bitcoin is a free program but its code is not open source. If you try and make changes to the way the block chain is handled, you will have your block removed. Can you modify the root code to allow you to circumvent earlier code? Open source software by its own nature is hackable.
Every Bitcoin client dowloads the entire transaction history of every Bitcoin ever produced. Far from an anonymous system. In fact it's a pretty good way to make sure the transaction history can never be deleted.
You are putting software on your computer that you are unaware of the source. You are entering bank account information, routing numbers, etc. Sure seems like a hackers wet dream.
I have very good friends who are system engineers from MIT and CMU. I've asked them about Bitcoin. They all love the idea of it, because it is cool. But they have all said it is cool because if they wanted to run a program to steal millions of dollars, that is how they would do it.
They always bring up Diablo. Then say it sure seems like Blizzard should sue the creator of Bitcoin for stealing their idea. In Diablo III Blizzard created a crafting system where people would trade real money for items crafted by players. You could trade virtual gold for the items found in the game, but that required huge amounts of playtime. Why not just pay a few dollars and get the item now.
What happened was this broke the entire game. There was a mad rush to buy items before others could buy them so they could then resell them for real money. People who played the game early and built up a huge stash of virtual gold could sell items for real cash. Values for special swords that could kill enemies with one hit went parabolic.
Bitcoin seems like it was ripped right from Blizzard's Diablo source code.
Another genius...
You asked your friend from MIT? Who? Dr. Bernanke, I presume?
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Open source means that it's released under an open source license. It doesn't entitle you to fuck around with other people's protocols and force them to deal with your problems. By that moronic logic you could download sendmail, fuck it up and then start causing mayhem in the world of mail transfer and yet no SMTP server - sorry, no Open Source SMTP server - would be allowed to decline connection attempts from that sendmail-adr. That's utter crap.
I can't be bothered to entertain your other ridiculous claims.
A piece of advice for bit coin winners: take out your original investment plus ten or twenty percent and if you want to let the rest ride, it's a free trade.
Living in a state of reality seems to be a challenge for many. I don't believe that a guy can make money dealing with beliefs or wants. Ya have to constantly reassess the facts and the mood of the markets, such as they are...being manipulated and all....ya have to be willing to fade extreme moves, while trading from the side you have at least some convictions about...jmho...I know ya can't make love to a bitch market...this I do know!
"I don't believe that a guy can make money dealing with beliefs or wants."
Are you out of your mind?
Religion doesn't make money?
Can I sell you a DVD of "The Secret"?
Are you familiar with marketing?
One does not make money dealing in his own beliefs or wants. One makes money, lots and lots of money, selling others their beliefs and wants.
Just thinking out loud here:
It seems like bitcoin might be more useful if one could have a device that holds a unique secondary bitcoin spending wallet. You load up this physical device with some bitcoins. You then take it to the farmer's market or fish market other typically cash business, bring it to within a close proximity (NFC range) of the seller's bitcoin wallet. The seller tells you the price, you log in to your wallet, send the bitcoin amount, the seller verifies the bitcoins are in his wallet, and off you go with your produce / products, etc.
Something along those lines might make its use as money much more widespread once you can really use bitcoins as money rather than relying on a middleman broker. Seems like the broker is the weak link--once the government puts the screws to the broker you would have a tough time converting from bitcoins to cash so you can SPEND on necessities.
Thats the whole idea. Its not supposed to be an "investment."
Think drug dealers folks.
Of course, a pound of cannibis might be a good investment these days too.
Oops....am I on a list now?
@Icantstopthinki - Check out www.BitPay.com
P.S.: At the current stage, Bitcoin seems to be an (un)intended pyramid scheme unless you use it to buy things/services and do not hold it. Yes, I know the ones who have held it recently are making a bunch of money but when a smack down comes, it won't be pretty... Precious metals and agricultural land with good water sources is imho a better place to park one's wealth.
Fuck Yous all PPT and central bankers.
See ya's all in hell.
PM's are the wholesome girl that you marry because you know she'll always be there for you. You'll have your ups and downs, but you'll be happy growing old together.
Bitcoin is the hot, slutty chick who's all the rage and is being passed around like a joint. Those who get in early will have a great time with her and will know to pass her off before she gets old, weathered, and diseased.
Not a bad comparison...
bitcoin is going up because the user base is expanding and there is no derivatives market for bitcoin to short-sell it
I asked the I Ching about Bitcoin.....it said to BUY!
Fighting the FED right now is a tough game to defeat...
Looks like if anyone is making serious BitCoyn it's SatoshiDICE. A fool with his mined BitBoyn will soon be seperated.
The other day I was reading abpout Bit Coin and I decided, what the hell....I had $500 that I wasnt doing anything with.
So I start my research. I go to get a wallet and then sign up with a dealer. I figure how hard can this be. Except my dealer cannot accpet direct ACH transactions from my bank. So I go to one of their suggested money folks. And now I feel myself getting drawn towards the Western Union with a handful of cash.
Next step, I find someone that can do transfers. Like opening any bank account, they want ID. No problem, I "get that." So I open the account and I send them my $500.
Six days later, my $500 clears. Now, I think I can finally fund my account and buy a bit coin. Of course, at first I could have bought ten, and now its four. Smells like TVXX to me a little....but its only money and I can move pretty quickly.
I go to transfer funds from my money account to my bitcoin buying account and I discover that I am still not officially verified. I was "verified" when I opened it, but I am 2,692 in line to get verified by thier staff (who no doubt are college students highlighting as hackers with ALL of my personal information.) Because I am not verified officially, I have to deposit my money another way. Using instructions that read like an Ikea Stereo cabinet instruction sheet, I go back to my money account to transfer the funds.
I hit transfer after typing in what I think are the right directions. Now the money account says, "well, you too are verified but if you are going to send money THERE, we need more ID." Since I was already into this so far, I sent them a pdf of my ID. It did not take. Error uploading. Again. error uploading. Again, except this time its a JPG....error uploading.
At this point I stopped.
It dawned on me that I should not have this much trouble giving someone my money. I should not have this much trouble giving people fees. This thing accepts money from the same places I go when I wire money to Haiti when my daughter is down there. It requires more ID and background than it does to open up any other bank account I've ever opened. (And this from a concept which is supposed to rid me of the Bankers and Powers That Be!) And the reason for the inflation is because of knuckleheads like me wanting to "test" the water and are willing to go through this Dungeon Masters Bullshit to make a buck.
My grandmother always told me to "listen" to what the world is telling me when I was having trouble doing anything. About the time where this became more complicated than my application to Naval Intelligence, I "listened" to what the world was telling me. I was trading one cabal of banksters for another one. In fact, its probably just a bunch of smart grand kids of the banksters who have been stealing from me for 50 years.
So, I this morning took the $500 bucks in cash. I bought two 1/10 OZ gold eagles and a bunch of SEs.
I have them in my hand. It took ten minutes because some old asshole was trying to sell his wife's silver serving set in from of me. (Have people no shame?)
BitCoins may be the savior of the world. But, if the power goes out, I can use the coins to scrape the dried shit from my ass.
Well said! +1,000
Your experience clearly outlines the biggest hurdle IMO to wide adoption of BTC. Proponents seem to act like its as simple as paying a credit card and soon everyone will do it and the mad rush of the rest of the populace will send the price to the moon. But as a tech savvy individual I understand how hard it is to convert any non-techie to a new solution. Until there is literally an app for it then most people aren't willing, or even able, to make the effort to learn the new tech and use it. There will not be widespread adoption of BTC outside of geek and maybe finance guys because of the knowledge hurdle for the J6Ps of the world. That may change, but as far as I can tell right now you have to do a lot of homework just to get started with BTC.
Try this, explain to your next conversion target why they should own gold, what it is, and how to buy some. Next try to explain why they should own BTC, what it is, and how to get some. I guarantee the moment the phrase "crypto-currency" enters the discussion the eyes will glaze right over. On the other hand, every idiot knows ladies love bling.
BTC is useful, and will probably have a future, but it is so early right now that it is hard to say with any certainty how this will play out. It sure looks like a bubble at the moment though, so some profit taking for early adopters would be prudent. Further, the .gov doesn't have to kill all electricity or take out every node to make BTC unpalatable. Just adding a line item to the tax code for virtual currency gains would be enough to severely affect the experiment, no? Or do you really think the .gov will watch all you people bank 800% gains and not want a cut? Just how exactly do those of you banking BTC profits plan to report that income? If your answer is that you won't then you are already on the wrong side of the law, fair or not, from there it is a simple matter for the PTB to do as they will as they will have vilified you as a criminal. I'm not saying I agree with that stance, but history shows that is in the playbook. Hedge accordingly.
Thanks for posting that, so the dopes out there will understand this is just another virtual disaster waiting to be co-opted controlled by the CIx from their department in the Treasury. I played with Bitcoin a few years ago and created a wallet, etc.. bla bla bla bark bark woof woof... on a computer whose power supply died 3 years ago. Don't have access to it, don't remember the password, etc... and the Bitcoin customer service department (sarc) can do nothing to help me. Whatever.
After you have more PM then you can carry twice and it's scattered in various locations around the globe.
Invest in:
Tools (high quality, that can be used or resold)
Devices that provide value (that could be resold later)
Consumable Products (with long shelf life that can be consumed or sold/bartered)
Depending on your location and situation - possible examples of non-perishable (or long shelf life) items to invest in: salt; ammo; plastic bags; paracord spools; water filters; long term dried foods; ammo; Auto supplies: various fluids, oils, fuels, filters, preservatives, extra wheel/tires, typical replacement parts (wipers, filters, maybe brake pads); tools and supplies; Electrical generator(s); gas well hook up; chargers/ rechargeable batteries; various monitors and sensors; communication devices; visual aides: extra glasses, binoculars, range finder, scopes, night vision; electrical and electronic supplies; security items; firearms and ammo; medical supplies; garden tools and supplies; mechanical devices: pump(s); siphons; ammo; base chemicals, ammo.
Anything that will either be: consumed, or will go up in price in an inflationary or supply limited economy: Buy at least 2 times what you think you will use (someone else will want it).
Four big ones for me:
Coffee, ammo, and TP. Passport.
Pete: Well said! +1,000 for you!
Without high-energy, no Internet.
With Peak Oil, Internet will go down in the next 50 years (except maybe for military and government).
No Internet, no Bitcoin.
Not buying it.
Try sooner once dollar crashes and people quit working for nothing.
The silver trading volume is just plain incredible. This thing is going to blow up in not too distant future.
This farcical bear market in the precious metals market will one day reveal itself for what it really is- manipulation. There is an overhang of paper ETF shares and futures that cannot be backed by the amount of gold on the planet. GLD supposed to represent 1/10 of an ounce of gold but the number of shares versus the gold they have in the vault should make it worth 1/100 or even 1/1000 of an ounce of physical gold per share. There will be a huge disconnect and higher premiums in the near future as bullion dealers would not want to sell at low spot prices. I could think back in the 1980s to early 2000s when spot prices were low but premiums were high and some coins like the pandas went for almost double the spot price.
I will believe in bitcoin when gold vending machines actually accept bitcoins.
I am shaking my head in so much disbelief that my wife thinks I have Parkinson's.
I switched from AU to AG back in 2009 (and I am 75% into PM). Back in mid January, I expected Gold and Silver to start their big move up ¨any day¨ and as we all know it has not happened yet. That said - Yes, maybe PM prices will go down another 10% before we see the inevitable economic colapse. But with accelerating currency wars and all the money printing going on (QE that CANNOT stop without directly triggering the colapse) - WE KNOW that the coming currency crisis is just a matter of time, it could be anyday, it could be tommorow... Are you willing to take a chance that that eventful final day (when it will be too late to get in) finds you waiting for that lowpoint in the price of PM´s? To each his own, but I for one sleep alot easier knowning that when that day finally arrives - I´ll be ready. I dont worry about the price going down, in fact I´m much happier when it does so that I can buy more - everytime it goes up hard I worry that ¨this is it!¨. I appreciate and am even thankful for TPTB´s obvious manipulation to control the upside, it gives me more time to aquire more silver (and platinum lately). On a cold January day I spent less than the price (at the time) of an oz of gold for 100 measly bitcoins (just in case...), I wish now that $1600 would have had another zero but I just couldnt get myself to put more than I was willing to lose. Today my 100 bitcoins (actualy 99.997 due to a small commision) would buy me about six and a half Gold Eagles, but I just cant get myself to part with them... Anyway people, we need to stop rooting for PM´s to go through the roof, because the day that happens will mean that the world as we know it will be no more. Enjoy what life has to offer now (while you stock up on physical PM´s) - one day many of the comforts we have available may be hard to come by even for those of us that invested wisely. For those that can spare some ¨loose change¨, maybe buying a small handfull of bitcoins with some $ you can afford to lose will give you some happiness untill the day the SHTF and PM´s take off. In any case stop worrying so much and enjoy the show.
How much gold can you leave your country with? Or even travel mainland with? The mobility of bitcoin checkmates everything right now
It's so obvious....
Scare the weak hands out of their positions in Gold and Silver...
when they flock to Bitcoin, fleece them.
"One digital currency to shear them all."
some big sellers around, like Egypt, running out of money to buy fuel and food. Apparently suppliers want hard currency like the USD, not gold, which is seen as illiquid. This trend may be what's affecting the price as other countries run short of cash reserves and need to sell something.
So, is that what explains the $25/oz sell off out of nowhere on London getting back after a long weekend? Who would have known??? Thanks for clarifying.
Good to see Sinclair has been proven wrong.
Anyone here who loves hating on bitcoin ... put your money where your big fat loud mouths are tough guys
How to SHORT bitcoins
Bitcoins gonna rock your closed insular little bubble worlds.
nuff said.
Why don't you just buy them and shut up? Why do you care what anyone thinks?
max has bit the shark.
as i have posted elsewhere-
rense has the jooos
alex's got the poop
rivero's got the chemtrails
wayne's peak oil
max and mmgwarming
ben and white dragon masonry
they've all got their heels.
tylers, g.w. and me 'till the bitter end.....