Something you may forget about the 'geek squad' is that we have provided you with the means to voice your opinion worldwide, no matter how foolish or intelligent it may be. We are now providing an alternative to those JOOBUX you so incessantly hate.
You may drink, lick the salt block, or go to pasture. It's up to you.
Here's how I view your 'Alternative' [I'll treat this in the same manner I treat the other issue]
~~~
1. PROVE to me, now, [other than a verbal promise by an anonymous entity that hasn't been seen or heard from in over 2 years], that the supply is finite & always will be
2. PROVE to me that the same anonymous entity is not Mossad, NSA, CIA, or a small group of techno ponzi clowns
3. PROVE to me that, if it IS all it's claimed to be... That the government will not, in some way, put pressure on it
4. PROVE to me, other than promises, that user identities are anonymous & untraceable
5. PROVE to me [in your ability to see the future], that merchants will not immediately start backing down from transacting due to the sheer price volatility
1. Can't. But I believe the developers had honest intentions to produce a "best effort" at a 21st century "perfect commodity" to be used as a currency.
2. Can't see 1.
3. They probably will, and they are probably buying now.
4. Not really that important if you are honest.
5. Price must settle much higher before merchants will convert to pricing in bitcoin unrelated to fiat.
It's not too late. This is real. I wouldn't put more in than you can afford to lose.
There is a difference Francis. I have to own up and admit that at one point I bought physical gold. A very small amount. But it was enough to completly mush the physical gold investment thesis from here several hundred years after I am gone at least. My apologies everyone. You may as well jump on this bitcoin train because it may be as good as it gets.
If you weren't interested in it at $8... You're certainly not interested in it at $200...
~~~
...and if you are [suddenly], then that qualifies you as a speculator...
I mean... This price levitation [out of nowhere]... People like CH1 like to draw imaginary lines to events like Cyprus, but the truth is, NOBODY knows where it's coming from [unless somebody can actually PROVE it]...
For all anybody knows, a bunch of people who are involved in real life Pyramid Schemes, are using this system to pay off customers & keep their game going...
- drug cartel money?
- some rogue hedge fund?
- or maybe it's an NSA/CIA op all along [in which case, you're actually funding the people you're pretending to hate]...
Who the hell knows?... In my life, I've learned when there are more questions than answers ~ Stay Away... As for me?... I'm not LOSING anything by not being involved...
I have nothing against the Bitcoin, and am sure it is a great idea... But why would I buy a Bitcoin now, when I can buy 6+ Silver ounces instead... And in a month or so I will probably be able to buy 10 ounces of Silver instead of a Bitcoin. Someone tell me where I am wrong please...
Yeh, you wold think that with record sales monthly, and with the mint rationing sales for the third time since December, that silver would look something like this.
Afraid of technology? Now listen here you young whipper-snapper. I would have responded sooner but my dial-up modem kept getting a busy signal. Geezers like me embrace tech. As a matter of fact we.... Hang on a minute my Boston LP is skipping on the turntable. I'll be right back...
I think there are a lot of old guys on zerohedge who are afraid of technology. My personal theory.
I hope your correct for your sake.But the reason we are skeptical is just that, age.We have seen,been victims of Flash cash ideas beofre,it only takes one time getting bit by a rattlesnake to not get near one again.
Plus we don't have 50yrs to make up losses any more.
Bitcoin has one advantage over gold - it can be transferred over the internet. If a matter transmitter is ever invented, gold will regain the advantage.
God so help us when they make a Paper derivative of Bitcoin, futures, shorts, etc. Until then, it continues to grow as a Bastion of Freedom. Free Money. Free YOUR Money. Bind it not to the whims of governments and men.
Suppose they don't. Suppose they are OK with the currency that is "beyond their control" and "will destroy states and bankers". Suppose they don't lift a finger.
Yeah that worked real well with drugs, arms smuggling, prostitution and sharing yottabytes of copyrighted material on the internet didn't it? Hell the spooks will just drive it underground and use it themselves to fund their black ops.
Next week: Comex announces new 'bitcoin certificates' tradable product. Declares "We definitely have a vault full of genuine bitcoins to back the certificates, trust us, we really do! And we promise that if you for some reason want to take delivery of your physical bitcoins, there'll be no trouble whatsoever. Except if mumble mumble mumble."
This is great news but I feel it may be near a top. I am going to roll all of my profits into hard assets; beanie babies, Magic: The Gathering cards and limited edition pog slammers. If I allocate my resources correctly, I should be able to retire by August.
You guys will have to pardon me for my "ignorance" on this subject, but i have a couple questions on the premise, and use of Bitcoins. I'm NEUTRAL on the subject, and let me state up front that I know enough about the Bitcoin phenomena to be quite dangerous. My first question is; If I'm paying rent/buying a car/etc with Bitcoins, does my rent value fluctuate each month based on the value of the Bitcoin in USD's? ie., if 1 Bitcoin = $1000 dollars, and my rent is $900, how do I get change? I guess I'm asking what does a person do with the incremental, ie., $5, 10, 20, differences in purchases? Can an "Entity", a person, business, GOVERNMENT with UNLIMITED RESOURSES (fiat), buy up the Bitcoin? For example. if Bitcoin "works" and makes it through the guanlet of the Global Banking Cabal, what would it mean theoretically to Bitcoin if it wound up being a "Trillion Dollar Bitcoin"? Wouldn't it be existentially be impossible to be a 1000 trillion dollar holder of Bitcoin/Money in the "real world"? My last question is; What can/could I do if the SHTF in real life. The electric is turned off for any number of reasons, (see Greece), and there is no internet for long periods of time? What if the collapse comes, wars/poverty/famine (the usual suspects), and my family and I have to cross some unknown border, whether it be state to state, or country to country, am I going to show the border guard a piece of paper stating I have 100 Bitcoins somewhere in cyber space, a worthless green piece of paper in the form of a worthless FRN, or a couple of Gold 1 ounce Pamp Suisse certified bars? Again, I'm not lambasting Bitcoin, I just want to know from the experts. I hope it is commonplace & works for the users because it will give Bernanke & Co. something to think about and fear. For me, I'm a dyed in the wool(sheeple) GOLD and SILVER BUG. Too late in the game for anything new. Thanks for your patience.
Good point CD, the fact that gold or silver is getting trumped by BTC makes me even more suspicious of BTC, even though I am trying to purchase, coinebase has been out for days.
BTC is suspicious to me too. I'm researching the genesis of BTC and trying to understand how it came to be valued at over $200. My gut still tells me this will end badly.
I'm a 21st century digital lost boy and BTC is giving me problems conceptualizing how the currency works and how it is to remain anon. and safe. People with money are not going to throw it into something they don't understand. This move feels to me artificial at the foundation with specs causing a hyperbolic move? WTF is that anyway?
How can this be the only asset on earth moving like this?
If the data exists, can any of you bitcoin "investors" post links to sites/charts showing how the ownership of BTC breaks down? I'd be curious to see that.
I've been waiting for a dip since $20ish. The silk road went offline and for the next few days BTC almost went to zero...
It was a couple months after that I began to watch and it's been up steady since with an almost GS like winning %.
This move is surely unsustainable...maybe a crash is in the cards; maybe it levels off and trades sideways at 1M. Who the fuck knows...besides maybe In-Q-Tel.
The point with Bitcoin is that the ramping up of production actually causes it to become more difficult to mine. Half the Bitcoins have already been mined and it will take 140 years to double the supply from here.
Mining is already becoming a losing venture, all the easy coins have already been mined.
No need to worry though, each Bitcoin can be divided into one million pieces. If the value runs higher, suspect it will be divided even more. The division is infinite.
As the price of one Bitcoin rises more speculators will begin to purchasesmaller and smaler units of a single Bitcoin. This wll cause the blockchain to expand exponentially as well.
I believe that to be the goal and the end collapse of Bitcoin. Eventually the blockchain becomes so large and so slow to operate that a Bitcoin transaction takes weeks to execute. You traded recognised money for a hacker experiment, and no you can't use it.
Try to buy 10 Bitcoins right now. It will take over a week, and you'll be charged far more than you thought. You want to get in at $200? You won't get in at $200, you'll get in at $400. Then when you try and get out it will take weeks more, and you won't know what you'll get. There is also daily withdrawal limits on the exchanges.
When a group of people think they are gettng rich, they're probably getting scammed.
I shook the Bernake Ball and it said there is no risk. I shook the Cramer Ball and it said Buy Buy Buy. I then shook my 8 Ball and it said Reply Hazy, Try Again Later.
the higher bitcoin goes the less attractive it becomes to new-comers. For new-comers it is better to start mining their own bitcoin ver.2 (mine cheap first coins) and advertise it
And how do these new comers get websites, restaurants, and other people to accept their new coin? Do you really think there is enough interest in cryptocurrencies that people would support 2? or 10? or an unlimited number of them?
Besides, as it becomes more valuable, you just use smaller units: 0.1 is the new 1.
Perhaps bitcoin is a Giffen Good. As more and more people cannot afford to buy ounces of gold, they can buy smaller and smaller amounts of highly divisible bitcoins. You can argue about the divisibility of gold, but smaller and smaller coins have higher and higher markups, and there is a practical limit to how small a unit of gold you can use as currency.
At least fiat is purportedly backed by the/a government, albeit one with an incentive to debase. Bitcoins will not be allowed to supplant government run currencies, so what then?
@CD I think it is too early to tell. it seems to provide a viable alternative to fiat currency with the impression of less risk. who knows about the logic of that impression though. it could be a pm price supression scheme funded by nsa, or i could be paranoid, ur...i am paranoid!
That depends ... if you can't afford to lose, then you can't afford to bet!
The chances of Bitcon going mainstream as a currency with the billions of technically illiterate precious metal believers in the Near, Central and Far East (let alone flyover country) are certainly far, far lower than the chances of a forked chain or busted algorithm. If/when BTC crashes - and for whatever reason, whether technical or political - the fall will be far quicker and steeper than the climb.
It wouldn't be the first time we'd have seen a "sure thing" crash overnight.
betting on a currency is one thing, but saving is what makes the "moneyness" of a currency - violent market moves kind of "shakes" the "money quality" out of a thing
funnily this applies to gold, too - the very moment the price goes parabolic it enters the "speculation zone" and it stops being a quiet saving instrument for many
shake the baby even more and it stops being a main currency: defined as "the thing" you use to measure the price of "all the other things"
Ummm ... when has the price (ie. the saving/purchasing power of real goods) of one ounce of gold ever gone "parabolic"? It has remained essentially constant for thousands of years (ie. one ounce of gold would have bought you a decent Roman toga and sandals, now it'll buy you a decent suit and pair of shoes) ... Can't say the same for a USD, or a Spanish Real, or, or, or.....
indeed. back to the bits: what one should consider as suspicious is not so much the parabola, but its reflexive companion : the ubiquity of the MSM coverage.
reminds me of the arab spring/tp/occupy/etc.:
- find a simmering legitimate feeling of dissent amongst the populace and a method to express it.
- turn up the burners full blast.
- watch as it boils into a steaming froth.
- overcook the dish to dissipate all the nutrient value into the atmosphere.
- let the frogs spend their next years picking over the burnt carcass while you now know exactly who the frogs who can croak the loudest are so you can keep a watchful eye on them.
Yes. Store of Value. Personally, as a long term store of value, PMs have greater appeal. Yet, at the moment BTC is a very interesting experiment. a speculation. As with all speculations, do not put in more than you can afford to lose!!
You're right. I'm married to the phrase. I'm laughing all the way home, how's that? Watching my money grow in fiat bucks has been fun but the pace of this current rise does worry me I can't lie about that. That being said I still very much believe in the concept and we are still well under $10 billion so, it is quite possible you AIN"T SEEN NOTHING YET.
Hi CD. Maybe. While Bitcoin BTC is getting all of this hype, the money printers are really pumping the value through the moon. Now I am afraid of a blowup. Plus my $40 widget has just become a $80 widget almost overnight in Bitcoin terms. This isn't good for my customer base and doing business.
Competing currencies are necessary. I wish Bitcoin BTC would come up with a way to stabilize this currency. Or should I say stabilize their stock price as Bitcoin BTC can not work in my business model as a currency for daily staple transactions.
yea, price discovery is the problem. price discovery
in dollars especially since the dollar no longer
functions as a reliable unit of economic capacitance.
.
"...What Mr. Rothschild had discovered was the basic principle of power, influence, and control over people as applied to economics. That principle is "when you assume the appearance of power, people soon give it to you." " ..the manual
.
Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars
An Introduction Programming Manual
Operations Research Technical Manual
TW-SW7905.1
a resistor being transmuted into a dashpot masquerading as a resistor?
(for those like myself who didn't know what a dashpot is:)
A dashpot is a mechanical device, a damper which resists motion via viscous friction.[1] The resulting force is proportional to the velocity, but acts in the opposite direction,[2] slowing the motion and absorbing energy.
I'm not jumping into anymore BTC Bitcoin for a while. Just like most on this board, I diversify. Metals, currencies, goods, chickens... Don't want to keep my eggs in one basket. Never want to be dependent on any one source.
Mpex.co offers derivatives. Betting against bitcoin is certainly not a move I would recommend though. Max Keiser has been talking to some funds in London that he claims are looking to toss billions into bitcoin. $10 billion could be right around the corner.
HAHA........yeah, because getting the "establishment" into something that you boys and girls all think is "fighting the establishment" is gonna happen....
That's called pumping, pal.
But truth be told, I hope they do get in. Even though I do not trust Bitcoin, it'd be nice to see every day people fleece the banksters for a change.
We are in a manic adoption phase. Where does money go if it can't stay in banks or fiat? Bitcoin can NOT absorb much money without it drastically increasing in prices.
21 million bitcoins is a small number indeed. It is quite stunning to see $200 having been at $15 a few months ago. I don't know what to make of this but I'm decreasing my bitcoin position a little bit just because I want to diversify out of them a little bit. I still believe in the concept very much so, I just am trying to get some more hard assets.
Who knows? If I wait a few more months I could easily end up with a million. Or zero.
They have complete control of the paper market and convinced the world paper is physical. It's the greatest experiment they ever conducted. I tip my hat to them. People are just so incredibly stupid.
what's your unit of account? kg, g, mg, oz, lb, ...? my unit is 1 ton of silver = 1 btc. therefore, by my calculation, 1ton of silver is scarcer than 1 btc
Isn't Bitcoin a digital currency? What makes this any different from the paper trades (digitally through a broker)? Isn't this just another: "If you don't hold it, you don't own it" scenario?
Look at it's price movement, it looks the same as any other volatile series. I've never used it, however I've heard people "mining" it with heavy duty PC's setups. Can you buy food and fuel with it? Pay bills?
The whole point of BTC vs an account with PayPal, is that you own the private crypto keys. The government would have to physically enter your house and force you to decrypt the credentials with your bitcoin passphrase in order to confiscate the coins. With paypal, or similar systems, everything can be confiscated at once.
Each person that enters the chain, and installs a bitcoin wallet, becomes a trader, able to buy and sell with the currency, so your local farmer who buys a bitcoin, by so doing, gets the means to sell his produce with bitcoins.
Bitcoin was a featured subject in The Good Wife television series, in an episode titled "Bitcoin for Dummies". The CNBC host of Mad Money, Jim Cramer, was shown in a courtroom scene in which he claims he doesn’t consider bitcoin a true currency: “There’s no central bank to regulate it; it’s digital and functions completely peer to peer.”
You know that look people get when somebody keeps blowing into a balloon until it is so taut that it is almost transparent? That's the look I've got right now after reading the headline.
Arab Spring anyone. A silent revolt. Like in the former Soviet Union, everyone would go walk the dog when the news was being broadcast. The government never caught on and the empire imploaded. Let me go get the leash!
In anticipation of future developments, Gamblers Anonymous just added four new sessions on Saturday and Sunday and modified their twelve step program for Bitcoin addicts. It's now their fastest growing division.
Im buying 2 of them. . As everyone watches in disbelief as bitcoins hit new highs, as they did with gold, which never was to break 1000, 1100, ...1650..etc
Something you may forget about the 'geek squad' is that we have provided you with the means to voice your opinion worldwide, no matter how foolish or intelligent it may be. We are now providing an alternative to those JOOBUX you so incessantly hate.
You may drink, lick the salt block, or go to pasture. It's up to you.
Here's how I view your 'Alternative' [I'll treat this in the same manner I treat the other issue]
~~~
1. PROVE to me, now, [other than a verbal promise by an anonymous entity that hasn't been seen or heard from in over 2 years], that the supply is finite & always will be
2. PROVE to me that the same anonymous entity is not Mossad, NSA, CIA, or a small group of techno ponzi clowns
3. PROVE to me that, if it IS all it's claimed to be... That the government will not, in some way, put pressure on it
4. PROVE to me, other than promises, that user identities are anonymous & untraceable
5. PROVE to me [in your ability to see the future], that merchants will not immediately start backing down from transacting due to the sheer price volatility
I really, really, could go on for a lot longer
1. Can't. But I believe the developers had honest intentions to produce a "best effort" at a 21st century "perfect commodity" to be used as a currency.
2. Can't see 1.
3. They probably will, and they are probably buying now.
4. Not really that important if you are honest.
5. Price must settle much higher before merchants will convert to pricing in bitcoin unrelated to fiat.
It's not too late. This is real. I wouldn't put more in than you can afford to lose.
I forgot to mention the most hilarious part of the previous comment
~~~
Despite the author's suggestion of being an 'alternative' [vis-a-vis, this comment]...
"We are now providing an alternative to those JOOBUX you so incessantly hate."
This so-called price run-up... in bitcoins... at present... Is valued [& mostly redeemable in]...
Wait for it... wait for it...
JOOBUX! [lol ~ It's 24/7 nonstop comedy on ZH]...
There is a difference Francis. I have to own up and admit that at one point I bought physical gold. A very small amount. But it was enough to completly mush the physical gold investment thesis from here several hundred years after I am gone at least. My apologies everyone. You may as well jump on this bitcoin train because it may be as good as it gets.
it was enough to completly mush the physical gold investment thesis
Here I differ. Gold is good and will be good. Get it, keep it.
The price suppression via paper gold is a buying opportunity for physical. Fiat WILL turn to dust.
'Buy now or get priced out forever!'
Isn't BC relative to the cost of everything else?
I mean, when BC was $8 it cost 212 BC to buy an Ounce of gold
now it only takes 8.48 BC. So whats the big deal?
My ounce of Gold still buys me the worth of the Bitcoin.
LOL.. what?
http://blog.quantsig.net/2013/04/09/goldbtc-ratio/
yup
If you weren't interested in it at $8... You're certainly not interested in it at $200...
~~~
...and if you are [suddenly], then that qualifies you as a speculator...
I mean... This price levitation [out of nowhere]... People like CH1 like to draw imaginary lines to events like Cyprus, but the truth is, NOBODY knows where it's coming from [unless somebody can actually PROVE it]...
For all anybody knows, a bunch of people who are involved in real life Pyramid Schemes, are using this system to pay off customers & keep their game going...
- drug cartel money?
- some rogue hedge fund?
- or maybe it's an NSA/CIA op all along [in which case, you're actually funding the people you're pretending to hate]...
Who the hell knows?... In my life, I've learned when there are more questions than answers ~ Stay Away... As for me?... I'm not LOSING anything by not being involved...
Just like Chinese solars in 2010....or was it '09.'
I wouldn't touch either of them with your tulip bulbs.
I AM HERE. WHAT DO WE HAVE?
Actually it is less profits...
I have nothing against the Bitcoin, and am sure it is a great idea... But why would I buy a Bitcoin now, when I can buy 6+ Silver ounces instead... And in a month or so I will probably be able to buy 10 ounces of Silver instead of a Bitcoin. Someone tell me where I am wrong please...
Yep. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
If you think it is two risky you can always put some gambling money into it and take your original money out in two weeks. Then let it ride.
Passes: High:$227.86018
I dunno, it's a pretty big arse...
Supply/demand, market, what's that?
here's one for ya
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5691/difftoprice.jpg
Yeh, you wold think that with record sales monthly, and with the mint rationing sales for the third time since December, that silver would look something like this.
Sometimes, what you think is "supposed" to happen, doesn't.
I think there are a lot of old guys on zerohedge who are afraid of technology. My personal theory.
Virtual assets, hmm whats to be nervous about.
Is an idea "real "onlywhen many beleive in it?
No but an idea is valuable when enough people agree that it is.
Afraid of technology? Now listen here you young whipper-snapper. I would have responded sooner but my dial-up modem kept getting a busy signal. Geezers like me embrace tech. As a matter of fact we.... Hang on a minute my Boston LP is skipping on the turntable. I'll be right back...
Tape a few pennies on the head-shell and that should stop the skipping. Either that or a nice kick to the turn table.
Worked for me back in the day.
I think there are a lot of old guys on zerohedge who are afraid of technology. My personal theory.
I hope your correct for your sake.But the reason we are skeptical is just that, age.We have seen,been victims of Flash cash ideas beofre,it only takes one time getting bit by a rattlesnake to not get near one again.
Plus we don't have 50yrs to make up losses any more.
Nobody is saying to put your entire life savings into it.
Bitcoin has one advantage over gold - it can be transferred over the internet. If a matter transmitter is ever invented, gold will regain the advantage.
you mean, like a truck?
Try moving substantial amounts of gold out of the country without being taxed.
One who has "substantial amounts of gold" has the means to move it.
Doesn't that make it digital just as fiat is? I will safely hold my physical gold!!!!
fiat dollars can be transferred over the internet too....
Ever heard about GoldMoney or E-gold? All you need to do is change the ownership, transporting it isn't neccessary in most cases.
Do NOT touch e-gold. (GoldMoney is cool.)
As the Bernank takes care of the dollar, so will agent Smith take care of bitcoin.
God so help us when they make a Paper derivative of Bitcoin, futures, shorts, etc. Until then, it continues to grow as a Bastion of Freedom. Free Money. Free YOUR Money. Bind it not to the whims of governments and men.
http://bestbitcoinsites.wordpress.com
USA makes Bitcoin illegal in 3, 2, 1
Suppose they don't. Suppose they are OK with the currency that is "beyond their control" and "will destroy states and bankers". Suppose they don't lift a finger.
What does that tell you?
parallel universe?
Yeah that worked real well with drugs, arms smuggling, prostitution and sharing yottabytes of copyrighted material on the internet didn't it? Hell the spooks will just drive it underground and use it themselves to fund their black ops.
The U.S. and FinCEN have already deemed BTC not only perfectly legal but free of regulation altogether unless Fiat currency enters the equation.
Awww... Fail.
"Wait.....isn't Gold supposed to be doing this?"
Next week: Comex announces new 'bitcoin certificates' tradable product. Declares "We definitely have a vault full of genuine bitcoins to back the certificates, trust us, we really do! And we promise that if you for some reason want to take delivery of your physical bitcoins, there'll be no trouble whatsoever. Except if mumble mumble mumble."
Whatever this Bitcoin is, I want some--not!
Future saying: Once bitcoin, twice shy.
This is great news but I feel it may be near a top. I am going to roll all of my profits into hard assets; beanie babies, Magic: The Gathering cards and limited edition pog slammers. If I allocate my resources correctly, I should be able to retire by August.
Fed is probably buying bitcoin to keep gold and silver prices down.
Oh how I wish I'd bought in at $0.1... even in a thin market, a 2000x profit is nothing to sneeze about.
You guys will have to pardon me for my "ignorance" on this subject, but i have a couple questions on the premise, and use of Bitcoins. I'm NEUTRAL on the subject, and let me state up front that I know enough about the Bitcoin phenomena to be quite dangerous. My first question is; If I'm paying rent/buying a car/etc with Bitcoins, does my rent value fluctuate each month based on the value of the Bitcoin in USD's? ie., if 1 Bitcoin = $1000 dollars, and my rent is $900, how do I get change? I guess I'm asking what does a person do with the incremental, ie., $5, 10, 20, differences in purchases? Can an "Entity", a person, business, GOVERNMENT with UNLIMITED RESOURSES (fiat), buy up the Bitcoin? For example. if Bitcoin "works" and makes it through the guanlet of the Global Banking Cabal, what would it mean theoretically to Bitcoin if it wound up being a "Trillion Dollar Bitcoin"? Wouldn't it be existentially be impossible to be a 1000 trillion dollar holder of Bitcoin/Money in the "real world"? My last question is; What can/could I do if the SHTF in real life. The electric is turned off for any number of reasons, (see Greece), and there is no internet for long periods of time? What if the collapse comes, wars/poverty/famine (the usual suspects), and my family and I have to cross some unknown border, whether it be state to state, or country to country, am I going to show the border guard a piece of paper stating I have 100 Bitcoins somewhere in cyber space, a worthless green piece of paper in the form of a worthless FRN, or a couple of Gold 1 ounce Pamp Suisse certified bars? Again, I'm not lambasting Bitcoin, I just want to know from the experts. I hope it is commonplace & works for the users because it will give Bernanke & Co. something to think about and fear. For me, I'm a dyed in the wool(sheeple) GOLD and SILVER BUG. Too late in the game for anything new. Thanks for your patience.
Gold had a similar curve in 2005:
http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/au2005.gif
Parabolic going Parabolic-er.
or rather parabolic going hyperbolic
Or hyperbolic going plaid.
Yes, I think there's a lot of hyperbole in here...
try asymptote on log scale
BiTChez!
Humorless down-arrow pokers.
Competing for screenspace with my lesbian collage collection.
Good point CD, the fact that gold or silver is getting trumped by BTC makes me even more suspicious of BTC, even though I am trying to purchase, coinebase has been out for days.
BTC is suspicious to me too. I'm researching the genesis of BTC and trying to understand how it came to be valued at over $200. My gut still tells me this will end badly.
I'm a 21st century digital lost boy and BTC is giving me problems conceptualizing how the currency works and how it is to remain anon. and safe. People with money are not going to throw it into something they don't understand. This move feels to me artificial at the foundation with specs causing a hyperbolic move? WTF is that anyway?
How can this be the only asset on earth moving like this?
Gold BiTChez!
Keep laughing at me! I'm laughing all the way to the freakin bank here right now!!!!!!!
If I get into BTC now won't I just be the greater fool?
(That's a serious question if someone would like to give a serious answer.)
Yes
Buy now or get priced out forever! [lulz]
I see a split coming soon...if that's possible.
I see a crash coming soon...which is possible.
If the data exists, can any of you bitcoin "investors" post links to sites/charts showing how the ownership of BTC breaks down? I'd be curious to see that.
"Investors" are anonymous and the addresses are public. This tool can tell you owner consentration by address - https://github.com/znort987/blockparser.
Please see the top few (very concentrated and should be considerd as a minium level of concentration:
111111.11257544 582431b9e63d2394c8b224d1bc45d07ae95d2379 1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a Tue Feb 12 04:31:31 201379957.04210000 a0b0d60e5991578ed37cbda2b17d8b2ce23ab295 1FeexV6bAHb8ybZjqQMjJrcCrHGW9sb6uF Fri Jan 25 15:36:18 2013
53880.04210000 a82d63de690d6e71f98a2991249310f6a3d9cb88 1GLEtzJ1H2zoGrUA4RMbRJam5UJSdrk6T2 Fri Feb 1 06:04:48 2013
53000.04210000 3d9e561f21d312f9b8b46e74169263e2452d5591 16cou7Ht6WjTzuFyDBnht9hmvXytg6XdVT Fri Jan 25 15:36:18 2013
50000.04110001 863ec44fbf7c9ed0819b52f275006b22ba781794 1DEpjpftLbsGiCJvJDp2F2quVRnymV8U5Q Thu Mar 14 18:25:14 2013
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@ Silver500:
Thanks for the intel!
PS> According to an interview on CBS, BTC are NOT anonymous. These words, uttered from the mouth of someone who supposedly developed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhj1zeisqWY
They are if you use them properly, as cash is.
I've been waiting for a dip since $20ish. The silk road went offline and for the next few days BTC almost went to zero...
It was a couple months after that I began to watch and it's been up steady since with an almost GS like winning %.
This move is surely unsustainable...maybe a crash is in the cards; maybe it levels off and trades sideways at 1M. Who the fuck knows...besides maybe In-Q-Tel.
".besides maybe In-Q-Tel."
yes their fingerprints are all over this one.
Yes, because higher prices lead to increased production, leading to higher supply, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
I'd expect that people all over are ramping up bitcoin production right now. Plus Bitcoin doesn't have 11 carrier battle groups or OPEC to prop it up.
The point with Bitcoin is that the ramping up of production actually causes it to become more difficult to mine. Half the Bitcoins have already been mined and it will take 140 years to double the supply from here.
Mining is already becoming a losing venture, all the easy coins have already been mined.
No need to worry though, each Bitcoin can be divided into one million pieces. If the value runs higher, suspect it will be divided even more. The division is infinite.
As the price of one Bitcoin rises more speculators will begin to purchasesmaller and smaler units of a single Bitcoin. This wll cause the blockchain to expand exponentially as well.
I believe that to be the goal and the end collapse of Bitcoin. Eventually the blockchain becomes so large and so slow to operate that a Bitcoin transaction takes weeks to execute. You traded recognised money for a hacker experiment, and no you can't use it.
Try to buy 10 Bitcoins right now. It will take over a week, and you'll be charged far more than you thought. You want to get in at $200? You won't get in at $200, you'll get in at $400. Then when you try and get out it will take weeks more, and you won't know what you'll get. There is also daily withdrawal limits on the exchanges.
When a group of people think they are gettng rich, they're probably getting scammed.
If I had listened to this advice when I started buying BTC, I would not be 400% virtually richer.
I *like* bitcoin and I still agree with you.
I shook the Bernake Ball and it said there is no risk. I shook the Cramer Ball and it said Buy Buy Buy. I then shook my 8 Ball and it said Reply Hazy, Try Again Later.
LOL
Buy buy buy.....er...try try try later.
Why would you touch Bernake's or Cramer's balls?
the higher bitcoin goes the less attractive it becomes to new-comers. For new-comers it is better to start mining their own bitcoin ver.2 (mine cheap first coins) and advertise it
And how do these new comers get websites, restaurants, and other people to accept their new coin? Do you really think there is enough interest in cryptocurrencies that people would support 2? or 10? or an unlimited number of them?
Besides, as it becomes more valuable, you just use smaller units: 0.1 is the new 1.
Perhaps bitcoin is a Giffen Good. As more and more people cannot afford to buy ounces of gold, they can buy smaller and smaller amounts of highly divisible bitcoins. You can argue about the divisibility of gold, but smaller and smaller coins have higher and higher markups, and there is a practical limit to how small a unit of gold you can use as currency.
If I put all of my money in fiat bucks now, am I a greater fool?
At least fiat is purportedly backed by the/a government, albeit one with an incentive to debase. Bitcoins will not be allowed to supplant government run currencies, so what then?
@CD I think it is too early to tell. it seems to provide a viable alternative to fiat currency with the impression of less risk. who knows about the logic of that impression though. it could be a pm price supression scheme funded by nsa, or i could be paranoid, ur...i am paranoid!
That depends ... if you can't afford to lose, then you can't afford to bet!
The chances of Bitcon going mainstream as a currency with the billions of technically illiterate precious metal believers in the Near, Central and Far East (let alone flyover country) are certainly far, far lower than the chances of a forked chain or busted algorithm. If/when BTC crashes - and for whatever reason, whether technical or political - the fall will be far quicker and steeper than the climb.
It wouldn't be the first time we'd have seen a "sure thing" crash overnight.
betting on a currency is one thing, but saving is what makes the "moneyness" of a currency - violent market moves kind of "shakes" the "money quality" out of a thing
funnily this applies to gold, too - the very moment the price goes parabolic it enters the "speculation zone" and it stops being a quiet saving instrument for many
shake the baby even more and it stops being a main currency: defined as "the thing" you use to measure the price of "all the other things"
Ummm ... when has the price (ie. the saving/purchasing power of real goods) of one ounce of gold ever gone "parabolic"? It has remained essentially constant for thousands of years (ie. one ounce of gold would have bought you a decent Roman toga and sandals, now it'll buy you a decent suit and pair of shoes) ... Can't say the same for a USD, or a Spanish Real, or, or, or.....
1980 - it was a short spike, yes - a damaging one, to boot, if you consider what happened then for many, many years
at that time my friends' favourite conspiracy theory was that it was "spiked" on purpose - to the greater glory of the USD
"it was "spiked" on purpose"
indeed. back to the bits: what one should consider as suspicious is not so much the parabola, but its reflexive companion : the ubiquity of the MSM coverage.
reminds me of the arab spring/tp/occupy/etc.:
- find a simmering legitimate feeling of dissent amongst the populace and a method to express it.
- turn up the burners full blast.
- watch as it boils into a steaming froth.
- overcook the dish to dissipate all the nutrient value into the atmosphere.
- let the frogs spend their next years picking over the burnt carcass while you now know exactly who the frogs who can croak the loudest are so you can keep a watchful eye on them.
...rinse and repeat...
"Shake the baby"
A perfect metaphor for the strategy they employ on any asset that gets in their way.
Since they can print unlimited fiat, they can shake any baby to death. Just come on out to their marketplace and get shook.
The "markets" will not save you. The printing presses must be smashed.
Yes. Store of Value. Personally, as a long term store of value, PMs have greater appeal. Yet, at the moment BTC is a very interesting experiment. a speculation. As with all speculations, do not put in more than you can afford to lose!!
It purely depends on what you mean by "get into". If you're about to acquire some coins, don't.
If you'd like to start mining your own coins, by all means knock yourself out.
@jeebus
~~~
You're laughing 'ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK'?
I thought the purpose of bitcoin was to avoid banks...
I think you nailed it right there!
what is really going on here as
mr. panos asks?
You're right. I'm married to the phrase. I'm laughing all the way home, how's that? Watching my money grow in fiat bucks has been fun but the pace of this current rise does worry me I can't lie about that. That being said I still very much believe in the concept and we are still well under $10 billion so, it is quite possible you AIN"T SEEN NOTHING YET.
Hi CD. Maybe. While Bitcoin BTC is getting all of this hype, the money printers are really pumping the value through the moon. Now I am afraid of a blowup. Plus my $40 widget has just become a $80 widget almost overnight in Bitcoin terms. This isn't good for my customer base and doing business.
Competing currencies are necessary. I wish Bitcoin BTC would come up with a way to stabilize this currency. Or should I say stabilize their stock price as Bitcoin BTC can not work in my business model as a currency for daily staple transactions.
yea, price discovery is the problem. price discovery
in dollars especially since the dollar no longer
functions as a reliable unit of economic capacitance.
.
"...What Mr. Rothschild had discovered was the basic principle of power, influence, and control over people as applied to economics. That principle is "when you assume the appearance of power, people soon give it to you." " ..the manual
.
Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars
An Introduction Programming Manual
Operations Research Technical Manual
TW-SW7905.1
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/
.
is bit coin a dashpot? a resistor?
a resistor being transmuted into a dashpot masquerading as a resistor?
(for those like myself who didn't know what a dashpot is:)
A dashpot is a mechanical device, a damper which resists motion via viscous friction.[1] The resulting force is proportional to the velocity, but acts in the opposite direction,[2] slowing the motion and absorbing energy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashpot
It's a spark gap.
That's exactly what I've been saying multiple times recently...
~~~
If you're a merchant... All of a sudden you're going to decide to NOT accept bitcoins as payment at these valuations...
I used a lawn mowing service [& a restaurant] as my template...
Put your chump change into it, if you lose it, then you been fooled out of your chump change, that's all.
carelessness with "chump change" is what defines a CHUMP...
Does this mean you have "sold" your b/c and are making a deposit of fiat?
Or are you just counting your virtual chickens ?
I'm not jumping into anymore BTC Bitcoin for a while. Just like most on this board, I diversify. Metals, currencies, goods, chickens... Don't want to keep my eggs in one basket. Never want to be dependent on any one source.
may a thousand baskets bloom...
Bitulips or Bitcoin Sea Stock
One day big brotha will shut bitcoin down
If it isnt the government backing it, it will be indeed the government to destroy it stuxnet style.
Another possibility: this is Big Brother's global currency. We could be witnessing the sales pitch for it.
What, using Open Source?
as in open up ur wallets ....
How does one go about shorting bitcoins?
Mpex.co offers derivatives. Betting against bitcoin is certainly not a move I would recommend though. Max Keiser has been talking to some funds in London that he claims are looking to toss billions into bitcoin. $10 billion could be right around the corner.
How does a 500% loss sound right about now?
Funny, their setup fee is denominated in BTC. You need 30 BTC to open an account, which is about $6.000.
I've seen cheaper brokerage accounts...
HAHA........yeah, because getting the "establishment" into something that you boys and girls all think is "fighting the establishment" is gonna happen....
That's called pumping, pal.
But truth be told, I hope they do get in. Even though I do not trust Bitcoin, it'd be nice to see every day people fleece the banksters for a change.
and pigs will fly ...
ask Jamie Dimon, his prop desk is pretty good at shorting something with nothing
bitfinex.com offers cfd, and icbit.se offers futures contracts
We are in a manic adoption phase. Where does money go if it can't stay in banks or fiat? Bitcoin can NOT absorb much money without it drastically increasing in prices.
21 million bitcoins is a small number indeed. It is quite stunning to see $200 having been at $15 a few months ago. I don't know what to make of this but I'm decreasing my bitcoin position a little bit just because I want to diversify out of them a little bit. I still believe in the concept very much so, I just am trying to get some more hard assets.
Who knows? If I wait a few more months I could easily end up with a million. Or zero.
When you have your first 50k, buy all the silver you can carry.
Keiser must be a btc billionaire by now.
Keiser is a bitcoin 10 millionaire, or soon to be.
Zerohedge people at least think they know more than he does though. That's something right?
Wheeeeee!
Bitcoin hit $205. If silver had gone up at same rate, it would be hitting $125 instead of being down since the Cyprus crisis started.
Someone has complete control of the precious metals markets.
Bitcoin isn't increasing in value due to money printing, or through an increased demand for its uses, it is a pure speculative bubble.
They have complete control of the paper market and convinced the world paper is physical. It's the greatest experiment they ever conducted. I tip my hat to them. People are just so incredibly stupid.
someone at keiser's site said, in effect .
"buy bit coin, crash the price of silver".
humour?
Silver inventory is 100 times bigger than BTC.
what's your unit of account? kg, g, mg, oz, lb, ...? my unit is 1 ton of silver = 1 btc. therefore, by my calculation, 1ton of silver is scarcer than 1 btc
"Someone has complete control of the precious metals markets."
Until he doesn't.
Soros once said that "when he sees a bubble he buys it".
I wonder if Soros is buying this bubble.
Bitcoins, the Square, e-Cards, digital wallets....all the better to track you with, my dear.
Good story + zero fundamentals = next great bubble
I'm all-in!
What stops TPTB from just outlawing bitcoin? Taking all InTrade bets - oh wait...
Hee hee, perhaps the sovereign fiat guardians could focus their attacks on BC and lay off gold and silver for a while? Either way, they're gonna lose.
can't wait for Thomas Stolper to start FX recomendations for BTC.
If they need to crush bitcoin, all they need to do is open a few ETF's that track with Bitcoin and treat it like its metal.
If you tried buying bitcoins you know how hard it is to buy lots of them quickly. They are algo resistant.
Isn't Bitcoin a digital currency? What makes this any different from the paper trades (digitally through a broker)? Isn't this just another: "If you don't hold it, you don't own it" scenario?
Look at it's price movement, it looks the same as any other volatile series. I've never used it, however I've heard people "mining" it with heavy duty PC's setups. Can you buy food and fuel with it? Pay bills?
The whole point of BTC vs an account with PayPal, is that you own the private crypto keys. The government would have to physically enter your house and force you to decrypt the credentials with your bitcoin passphrase in order to confiscate the coins. With paypal, or similar systems, everything can be confiscated at once.
Each person that enters the chain, and installs a bitcoin wallet, becomes a trader, able to buy and sell with the currency, so your local farmer who buys a bitcoin, by so doing, gets the means to sell his produce with bitcoins.
free market, way way overrated
has Jim Kramer given the Bitcoin bump yet?
Bitcoin was a featured subject in The Good Wife television series, in an episode titled "Bitcoin for Dummies". The CNBC host of Mad Money, Jim Cramer, was shown in a courtroom scene in which he claims he doesn’t consider bitcoin a true currency: “There’s no central bank to regulate it; it’s digital and functions completely peer to peer.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#The_Good_Wife
You know that look people get when somebody keeps blowing into a balloon until it is so taut that it is almost transparent? That's the look I've got right now after reading the headline.
Arab Spring anyone. A silent revolt. Like in the former Soviet Union, everyone would go walk the dog when the news was being broadcast. The government never caught on and the empire imploaded. Let me go get the leash!
Looks to be a speedball powered John Belushi chart>
It's 2nd phase will be just as impressive as its first.
Enjoy the party kids, but be wise enough to realize when its time to go home.
Nasa confirm...The moon is now accepting bitcoin.
I was thinking 'Pluto'...
11 million in existence and only 10 million left to be created. 1/2 way there!
& I promise I won't cum on your face sweetheart...
Market indicators.
In anticipation of future developments, Gamblers Anonymous just added four new sessions on Saturday and Sunday and modified their twelve step program for Bitcoin addicts. It's now their fastest growing division.
"High, my name is Frank, and I trade Bitcoin".
Im buying 2 of them. . As everyone watches in disbelief as bitcoins hit new highs, as they did with gold, which never was to break 1000, 1100, ...1650..etc