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Mike Maloney: Today's Low Gold & Silver Prices Are Not Realistic

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Adam Taggart of Peak Prosperity,

During this very tumultuous week for precious metals prices, Chris sat down with Mike Maloney, founder and owner of GoldSilver.com, one of the world's largest bullion dealers.

Mike is a true scholar of monetary history. His reasons for getting into the bullion business have their roots in a very predictable cycle that has happened time and again over the centuries (more accurately millennia):

  1. A new monetary system is introduced, based on sound money (most commonly, using gold and/or silver)
  2. Currency (e.g., paper bills backed by sound money) is introduced to faciliate trade and commerce
  3. Governments begin to tinker with ways to 'print' more currency than can be fully backed (e.g., coin clipping, partially-backed notes, FRNs)
  4. A false prosperity ensues. Those closest to the new money creation benefit most and debase the currency further to forward their advantage.
  5. Reality begins to catch up with this deficit spending and the purchasing power of the currency weakens dramatically.
  6. The monetary system collapses under too many claims on a limited pool of sound money.
  7. Eventually, a new monetary system backed by sound money rises from the ashes (see Step 1, above).

Mike believes that we are currently experiencing Step 6 and that we will witness the birth of a new monetary regime within the next ten years.

What makes this moment in history unique is that all past monetary regime collapses have happened regionally. This is the first time in human history in which all the world's major currencies are collapsing together. Which is why he is so passionate about owning gold and silver.

In his opinion, we will soon witness the greatest transfer of wealth ever seen, as countries worldwide realize they need to revert to monetary systems backed by sound money (i.e., the precious metals). Those acquiring gold and silver beforehand will not only preserve their wealth as existing fiat currencies are extinguished, but will see staggering increases in their purchasing power. Those interested in learning more of Mike's specific vision can watch Episode One of his new Hidden Secrets of Money video series. (Chris and I received advance screenings of the next few episodes, which are excellent in terms of explaining the processes and shortcomings of our current monetary system.)

On the Tightening Physical Market for Gold & Silver

What most people do not understand is that the price of gold and silver are not determined by how much gold and silver is being sold. It is how many gold and silver IOUs are being sold. And you can write as many IOUs, futures contracts and options, as you want. Those are unlimited. The supply, though, of physical gold and silver is quite limited, and so when people actually start asking for it and they want the physical, then there is a divergence of the paper price versus the physical price, and we are seeing that right now.

 

We are in a back-order situation with all of the suppliers. Spreads are going up. Silver eagles cost about fifty cents over spot more than they normally cost because all of the suppliers have had to raise their price to try and find the supply/demand equilibrium that the markets are for. The markets are there to try and find a supply/demand equilibrium, so then price is the arbitrator. Price rises; that draws more supply and reduces demand. Price falls; that reduces supply and increases demand.

 

So the price discovery mechanism of the markets is what is supposed to ensure that things are in equilibrium. We have this broken system where there are a few big players that manipulate the market, and it always shows up when shortages start developing in the physical market. You know that the price of gold and silver right now are too low to be realistic. And the good thing about that is that it cannot last.

On the Hidden Wealth Transfer Caused by Inflation Targeting

Everybody got in an uproar over [the Cyprus bank deposit haircuts], but nobody gets in an uproar over the central banks targeting 3% inflation. That compounds out to 34% of your wealth that they are confiscating every decade. People got mad because it happened all at once and they could see it. One day their bank account said one thing; the next day it said another thing. With this insidious confiscation known as inflation, this is the inflation tax – you do not see it because the number on your bank account might say that you could make a deposit and if there are no fees or anything on that deposit, $100,000 deposit a decade ago still stays $100,000. Except gasoline went from $1.25 to near $5.  Measured in gasoline, you lost 75% of that $100,000, but it still says $100,000.

 

So the central banks targeting this 3% inflation rate is a wealth transfer from the public to the financial sector.

On the Recent Price Weakness in the Precious Metals

You do not want to stay in just one investment class your whole lifetime. But it is a very powerful tool to be able to measure these classes against each other and then jump from an over-valued asset class to an under-valued asset class at the appropriate time for the road to true wealth. And it only requires a few big decisions during your lifetime.

 

Now, when I discovered wealth cycles, I was looking at the Dow Gold ratio and thinking this thing has a cycle. I made another check of the Gold Dow ratio instead the Dow Gold ratio, and put them on top of each other. Lo and behold – there is a cycle. It has a positive side and a negative side. If you are doing a Dow Gold ratio, you jump from being invested in paper assets like stocks and then back to gold for the long investment waves. I would say it is somewhere between 8 and 20 years you spend in an asset class, and you can do this with anything. If you measure your house in how many barrels of oil it is worth over a century and you jump back and forth from being invested in oil wells to being invested in real estate, it is the same thing as being invested in gold or the Dow. It is a very powerful tool that I believe has a high degree of predictability and safety to it, if you do not let the short-term noise flush you out.

 

Right now we are in consolidation. Gold has been chopping sideways for 19 months now, and it has worn people out. But basically gold is up. It is not up from 19 months ago when it was nearing $2,000, but it sure is up over the last decade. So I do not let the short-term noise affect me now that I know that we have not reached the point where the price of gold equals the points on the Dow. Right now gold’s value is one-ninth of the Dow, and so I know that it needs to rise by a factor of 18 against stocks before I need to get worried and start watching gold.

 

So I am very comfortable in these pullbacks. It gets a little aggravating, but still it does not bother me that much and is definitely not going to flush me out.

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Mike Maloney (59m:02s):

 

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Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:39 | 3446858 HondaFullOfSilver
HondaFullOfSilver's picture

So we should stockpile cocaine?

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:48 | 3446895 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Are you mad? Do you know what would happen to that stuff in case of a boating accident? And since you got a Honda full of silver, you shirley must be suffering from boating accidents a lot.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:47 | 3447108 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

im not...and dont call me shirley

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:50 | 3446910 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

The Abstraction...

And pray tell us what this substance at $4000 / gram.  Thanks!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:54 | 3446932 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Plutonium.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:55 | 3446936 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

At $120,000 an ounce, the UK alone has the gold equivalent of 10,000 tonnes.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:10 | 3446940 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hmm, thank you for the information.  

 

EDIT:

I knew it could not be 52100 bearing steel, had it been that I would be rich...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:07 | 3446985 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

That's not exactly right. Only Pu 239 is that expensive. That which the UK and other nations have in storage is mostly not sheer.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:18 | 3447015 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

It does make you wonder, if there is nothing to fall back on...whether the forces of evil will try to monetize it whatever.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:32 | 3447058 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Just to clarify a technical aspect: This stored plutonium is contaminated with Pu 240 up to 20 %. That means, it is even more hazardous than Pu 239 because of a massively higher spontaneous fission rate. More neutrons and stuff ....

Edit: Come to think of it, I remember a story by Stanislaw Lem, in which people on some planet were detained from building larger groups by some headgear that was made from uranium. So, if to many of them gathered, they built a critical mass, and that was exactly why they never gathered in greater groups at all ...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:56 | 3447140 Reptil
Reptil's picture

it's not available on an open market issit. :-)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:55 | 3446935 screw face
screw face's picture

How do say plutonium in french?

Don't forget S. Africa, did i say that!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:28 | 3447493 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Why bother when it will just turn to lead and us to dust?

end of philosophical chortle

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:40 | 3446863 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Gold is way underpriced considering that NOTHING has been solved!  5000 years of experience beats speculative (and probably manipulative) hits on the (paper) price of gold.

Tonight and tomorrow will be very instructive...  I am already looking into (more accurately: following people who are looking into) whether the physical markets were closed during the price plunge on Friday.

http://tinyurl.com/9hlvzdx

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:10 | 3446993 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

This fellow over at Goldtrends claims the physical markets were closed.

 

(A few other people linked to this in their posts on Friday, so I won't take credit for knowing anything about anything.)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:53 | 3447126 Argent
Argent's picture

interesting take on it

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:41 | 3446867 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

I think what gold bugs like me are realizing is if they can control things this well, then maybe they can control a collapse, with coming new system etc. If they can turn everyone against everyone politically as they have, maybe just maybe they can control future purchasing attempts in metal. The price will be what they say it is and to back it up your neighbor will be given a reward to turn you in if you are caught trading in metals, guns, hell anything for that matter.

The Rainbow Coalition will be armed and deadly!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:43 | 3446870 jim249
jim249's picture

Massive slide in Kennecott mine in Utah on 4-10-2013.

http://silverdoctors.com/10-of-us-annual-silver-supply-just-vaporized/

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:43 | 3446871 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Ignore this guy.  Focus on reality.  The reality is that the price of gold and silver is probably headed for a slump, before it ramps up in a couple of years.  Do you want to be holding PMs during the slump, or a do you want to make money?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:48 | 3446890 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Predicting the future is very hard.  I have the battle scars to prove it.  Sure, gold's price could go down in price for a while.  Paper gold.

Timing big price moves is very hard.  Buy physical gold and hold onto it.  Sleep soundly.

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:51 | 3446908 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

I know a goldsmith nearby. He tells me: "Underpriced my shiny golden ass," or likewise ... it's hard to get physical for those prices ...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:54 | 3446922 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I left my LCS very disappointed late Friday afternoon only able to buy 1 oz of gold.  That's all they had for sale.  I heard off-and-on anecdotal reports this weekend that physical gold is a little harder to get.

Tulving did come back online though.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:57 | 3446947 knukles
knukles's picture

LOL

Watch the London physical exchange not come back on line tomorrow morning.

http://goldtrends.net/FreeDailyBlog?mode=PostView&bmi=1267250

 

Many thanks to Jesse....

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:03 | 3446961 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes!  I read that too.  Tonight and tomorrow could be very interesting...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:16 | 3447008 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Conspiracy theories abound!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:23 | 3447033 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yeah, I know.  It's all George Bush's fault.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:26 | 3447045 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Dubya, wow.  Funny how many Dubya supporters fail to see that the economy collapsed under him, not Obama.  Obama has tried to get the economy to recover yet Republicans live in some fantasy world.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:50 | 3447120 akak
akak's picture

Mouthwash!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:16 | 3447185 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

Ummmmmmm Take Obama's dick out of your mouth........

 

 

Then we can talk.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:39 | 3447237 luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

 

"Obama has tried to get the economy to recover"...And, did you take advantage of "cash for clunkers"?

 

let's do it again

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:27 | 3447371 Himins
Himins's picture

Well, I believe every one of your posts, for your audience to appreciate your insights, you need only to specify which planet.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:09 | 3447464 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Krugman, you are a mealy mouthed idiot!  Obama is wrecking the economy, with Obamacare alone, not to mention his orgy of spending.  This will all end in tears, and we will blame you and your kind, I sure hope you have a ticket to those underground bunkers the rich and famous are gonna head to when the SHTF, if not the little people will hunt you down for what you have done.  I make no threats against you, but that is the mood out there, but you statists could not see it if it hit you in the face!  You statist communist shills have runined this country.  I blame part of it on Bush too, but remember, his congress was Democrat controlled for all but 2 years.  Democrat/liberal/communist scum of the earth controllers and nation wreckers will burn for the treason you write into law...I will be long gone before the SHTF, as I will be bankrupt and foreclosed upon, lost my family and everything I have worked for because of statists like you, and you call yourself an economist, ha, bollocs to you, Obama, Congress, Alan and Ben, you are pieces of trash!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:32 | 3447663 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Obama has taken policies of Bush and made them WORSE. He spends more, takes more freedom from the people, creates more welfare, ...

 

The GOP needs change, but Obama will not make things better, except for Wall Street.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:01 | 3448604 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

Krugman-you dirty slut.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:43 | 3447096 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

conspiracy
1. a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation; plot
2. the act of making such plans in secret

Yeah...that like, totally never happens.

the first people to proclaim someone is a "conspiracy theorist"...are usually the conspirators.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:10 | 3447469 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Yep, just like if you oppose Barry, one is labelled a racist!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:59 | 3446950 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

That's what I mean. Personally, I don't care much, but for a goldsmith, who needs it to produce, say, a wedding ring, this sure is irritating.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:04 | 3446974 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1  

More fallout...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:10 | 3446989 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

No worries! Last thing I know is, he borrowed some from a dentist  :)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:46 | 3447258 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

You lucky bastard! I got 0, nothin', nadda. And they shut down their online shop (first time ever) over the weekend completely. It's gonna be an interesting week for sure.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:05 | 3446972 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

LOL, getting gold buying advice from a gold dealer.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:14 | 3447003 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Yeah, kinda like getting stock buying advice from a stock broker, or a financial analyst.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:46 | 3447420 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Or a Bitcoin bug, as the case may be

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:54 | 3447563 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Bitcoin viri

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:14 | 3447326 defencev
defencev's picture

Predicting the future is very hard.  I have the battle scars to prove it.  Sure, gold's price could go down in price for a while.  Paper gold.

I am not quite sure what do you mean by that. Everyone of you keep repeating as a bunch of stupid parrots that there is a huge gap between the price of physical and paper gold. I have just checked the price of physical one ounce coins on UOB website (most of the people buy physical gold in Singapore in their headquaters). There is a certain small spread between buy and sell but the buying price is 1942 SGD per 1 ounce Gold coin (usually Canadian maple leaf) which is 1569 USD in current exchange rate.

Would you, guys, stop bullshitting about the difference in physical and paper price?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:45 | 3447418 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Will you stop using bold, please?
You are being more annoying than those you are acusing of being annoying

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:47 | 3446891 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

I sold 1kg silver, bought bitcoins, sold bitcoins at a profit. Now I don't have to sell silver for another month. But now that bitcoin is dying a death, I cannot see any place other than physical bullion again.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:59 | 3446952 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

"But now that bitcoin is dying a death..."

Bitcoin is dying eh?  Looks pretty stable to me after the bubble.  It increased a huge amount compared to its pre-bubble march up.  In fact it could drop $30 and still show a very healthy increase.  Bitcoin ain't dying, sir.  It is just getting started. 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:04 | 3446968 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

It is meant to be a transaction system, which is where its value lies, not as a currency in itself. Once it acts as a currency it suffers sever deflationary spikes.

 

I believe the problem is due to its usebase being able to quickly compete to drive prices up and down. Without an underlying asset more concrete than cryptocodes, the price discovery mechanism does not really exist.

Bitcoin will be here in a month, as I predicted before...but is not an investment platform. 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:17 | 3447020 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

The lack of commodity backing has many people annoyed, and that is understandable.  Except, think a bit about this: if it was backed by a single company with reserves of, say, gold, what is stopping a State from politely knocking on their door and shutting them down?  Bitcoin doesn't suffer the same weakness.  Backing by a commodity is a pre-21st century idea, because there was no way to enforce mathematically limited currency.  Now technology allows this.  

So while Mt. Gox could (and probably will) have the government of Japan and the FBI knocking on their door at some point, this will not stop bitcoin.  The only thing that can stop bitcoin is a superior cirrency, perhaps one that is more anonymous.  Basically we enter an age of alternative currency competition.  Mathmeticians and computer scientists will try making various kinds, not just knock offs like litecoin.  Perhaps a less wasteful technique can be used to help distribute coins, rather than "bitcoin mining".  Perhaps transaction chains cannot be used to trace back coins and make it possible to implicate individuals in "crimes".  Right now though, bitcoin is the top dog, and people want a currency that has the market cap to transmit lots of money to another country.  At around $200, bitcoin would fit the bill.  I was seeing movements of $50,000 done with almost no price change at that price, and that is what will make it a real currency.  Perhaps a currency for financial infratructure, as you point out, but still a currency.

Ripple.com looks like they may be able to make a business solution, like PayPal, with safeguards and fraud prevention.  They are using bitcoin as infrastructure.  Mt. Gox has a widget for accepting bitcoin payments on stores, and the price automatically moves according to the spot price of BTCUSD.  Not only that, payments of bitcoin via Mt. Gox can be automatically sold into USD for your account.  All without a 3% transaction fee.  I think this is a big deal and will shake up credit card companies and PayPal.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:24 | 3447043 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Well if ever I need donations I will be the first to paste my bitcoin receive address, but consider this - what happens when the price per btc gets so high, that it becomes financially feasible to build a computer system to create that magic 51% of CPU that overwhelms the confirmation logic. A pentaflop supercomputer the Chinese are building would match the CPU of the current BTC network.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:29 | 3447376 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

1. No HPC computer can match a fraction of the current compute power.
2. If a more powerful computer were to be built, it'd be profitable to run it for mining rather than take the network down.
And I've already said here on ZH, the government can now easily buy all BTC out there and destroy it, it's cheaper than fucking around with supercomputers.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:07 | 3447853 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

That is always a concern, that someone takes ownership via 51% CPU power.  Keep this in mind, though: there are alternatives.  If some evil organization decides to hijack bitcoin to their own ends, users would flood out of it.  This would be a bad investment for this evil organization.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:02 | 3447458 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

Easier to ban its acceptance or ownership by labeling it a tax avoidance/money laundering practice.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:53 | 3446918 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

So pile into bonds and stawks to get raped and have no money left when the price ramps up? AKA Buy high sell low. Congratulations, I believe you are the douchebag of the day. We will compile the rest of the week and see if it's for the entire week too(you have a good chance for the monthly Dbag award). You will be awarded with a spot on CNBC to emulate your dumbass views to the world via sattelite. CongratuFUCKYOUlations.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:02 | 3446964 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

I'd feel annoyed, except you are the one holding a depreciating asset.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:25 | 3447041 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Everything goes up and down.....these are usual market aspects. The difference is that what I am holding in PMs are being manipulated down, whereas what you are holding in paper is being manipulated up. I own some stawks, but once the punchbowl is removed, we will see who lands where. The PMs I hold are my savings. on the long haul it will be wise. Do you get paid by the post or is it a monthly stipend? 

http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/usgmonth.html 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:08 | 3447855 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

You are dumb.  Someone benefits from a change in price in gold.  Either you do--or entities like JP Morgan do.  Which would you prefer benefits?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:08 | 3446987 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

I prefer to hold something I know is valued.

Good luck playing with your Monopoly money!

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:13 | 3447865 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

God, you are child.  There are many things in our economy that are not tangible, and yet rightfully have value.  Google Corp is worth hundreds of $billions.  Do they have massive stocpiles of gold or land?  No, they have programs and intellectual property.  Can you hold bytes in your hand?  Does that mean it isn't worth anything?  And more importantly, take note here, does that mean no one else is willing to buy it?

There will always be worth to precious metals.  But sometimes that value will dip.  Look at the dip in 1975.  A smart investor would have sold before the dip, and rebought gold as the price begain to march back up to its bubble top.  I imagine the exact same thing is going to occur.  In other words, wait to buy metals when the dip is over.  Not sure if you realize it, but when the price is lower, you can buy more of it.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:45 | 3446876 Racer
Racer's picture

From the 8th century the Anglo-Saxons made silver pennies. A pound weight of silver was melted to make 240 pennies. There were 240 pennies in a pound until 1971.

So today silver is worth £17/oz or £272 for a pound.. you don't get very much for a £ so sterling isn't very 'sterling' any more!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:00 | 3446958 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

Racer, another fact I am sure you will be interested in, is that the gold sovereign was introduced (and worth its weight in gold) as the £1 coin.

I'm sure JPM, HSBC and the USG would love to see it back there.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:44 | 3446878 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

holy malony...

i was thinking about this guy and his gold predictions today and all of a sudden there is a article about him. :) gold took a big hit on friday but i think (and hope lol) it will recover soon. too much money printing going on.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:47 | 3446885 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

I was thinking about him tooo...and all of a sudden he appears in my front room and gives me a 5kg bar of chocolate wrapped in gold foil...no wait...that was the drugs speaking.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:45 | 3446883 Iam Yue2
Iam Yue2's picture

The greater fool.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:48 | 3446900 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

No shit, Sherlock. Nobody, NOBODY, believes this.......

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:55 | 3446930 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Rest assured the elites plan on staying in charge no matter what happens and will blow up the entire planet to retain power.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:55 | 3446931 knukles
knukles's picture

Dear Whatsyername,
This guy tells me to buy, Steve Liesman tells me to sell and Paul Krugman is just plain insulting in his smug immaturity.
I'm soooooo confused.
K

Dear K,
Take a couple handfuls of Oxy and Ativan with a handle of vodka and call me from the other side.
XOXOXOX
Whazmyname

Dear Whooziefutz,
I guess you're right.  As man's only source of all spiritual inspiration I diagnose the hole in your soul and you prescribe the proper medication
K

Dear K,
Maybe you should just be set down with your eyes held open like Alex in a Clockwork Orange and be forced to watch Paul Krugman for eternity.
WHooziefutzmyass
PS Don't contact me again.

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:59 | 3446955 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 

A three-fer!  Oxy, Ativan and vodka.  Glad I'm not there anymore.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:42 | 3447247 knukles
knukles's picture

Tee hee heee
(eyes rolling all over in separate directions)

Me too!
Got 8 last month!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:56 | 3446934 blindman
blindman's picture

A deleted scene from Jaws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avRAB2d4A68
.
Mean Brody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ipSIR-AnoU
.
http://www.zealllc.com/2013/gldhldpl.htm
GLD Holdings Plunge
Adam Hamilton April 12, 2013 2684 Words
.
Sunday, April 14, 2013
Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2013/4/14_D...
.
12 April 2013
Gold Daily and Silver Weekly Charts - Shock and Awe in the Currency Wars - Silver Shenanigans
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2013/04/gold-daily-and-silver-w...
.
Record stampede by the dumbest money in gold: GLD holdings plunge
http://maxkeiser.com/2013/04/14/record-stampede-by-the-dumbest-money-in-...
.
Good vid from Peter Schiff: the US dollar was down last week along with Gold…Why?
http://maxkeiser.com/2013/04/14/good-vid-from-peter-schiff-the-us-dollar...
.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/4/13_Ha...
"Ian told me that as the takedown in gold and silver was occurring in 2008/2009 that he was getting calls from New York all day, every day. Guess who was calling him? Bankers from New York. The bankers from New York had only one question: “Who is doing all of the physical buying?” Ian told them, “It’s people from all over the world trading in their fiat money for real money.”
Ian knew there was concern because the West had been sending him gold from central bank vaults for years, but at that time he told me he was getting the strangest ‘scrap’ gold from the Western central bank vaults in the form of old coins. He said it looked to him like they were at the back of some of the vaults getting whatever scrap was left to ship to him in order to fill the massive demand for gold that was taking place. Dubai would then melt this gold down and ship it all over the world, including places like India, the Middle-East, and Far-East.”
"..e.k.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:57 | 3446937 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

Just got another 150 rounds o' sunshine! $26.77 each!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:20 | 3447025 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Rejoice in the sun!  :)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:01 | 3447305 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

You my friend will be a wealthy man.  Buy low sell high.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:01 | 3446963 G_T_A_44
G_T_A_44's picture

"we will soon witness the greatest transfer of wealth ever seen."

 

Such is and has been underway for several years now. 

And, it flows from West to East.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:05 | 3446975 goldinpenguin
goldinpenguin's picture

If the major currencies collapsed due to QE run amok don't you think these countries would sieze privately owned precious metals and pay a "fair" price and villianize and prosecute the owners as profiteers? Bernanke wouldn't be blamed, or at least not prosecuted

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:05 | 3446976 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

A lot of online gold dealers in the UK are refusing to take orders for gold at these prices, owing to "market volatility". Sovereigns and Britannias are all on backorder now, so much for dumping of physical. I think the US paper games are going to end in tears, just like manipulation of the London Gold pool in 1968.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:07 | 3446979 Fruitcake
Fruitcake's picture

North Korea is proof that a broken system can be upheld quite a long time, and by the same token I can see 'our' current system holding up much longer than many are expecting.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:23 | 3447037 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Not necessarily, totally true. NK has been subsidized by not only China, but the US as well. Without those subsidies they would have collapsed long ago.

The Chinese fear that if such a collapse were to happen that millions of impoverished NK's would cross the border into China. They don't want that to happen.

The NK's can't go south due to the border with SK being fenced and ringed with millions of mines along that fence.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:27 | 3447374 DosZap
DosZap's picture

The NK's can't go south due to the border with SK being fenced and ringed with millions of mines along that fence.

They wont have to.They have hundreds, maybe a thousand tunnels under it, and into SK right now.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:07 | 3446981 blindman
blindman's picture

12 April 2013
Gold Daily and Silver Weekly Charts - Shock and Awe in the Currency Wars - Silver Shenanigans
.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2013/04/gold-daily-and-silver-w...
.
"...Personally I think the wheels are falling off the economies of the West, and the financial engineers are hitting the panic button in advance. The BRICs are going to be in open rebellion if the rest of the G7 joins Japan in massive printing.

The Anglo-American banking cartel is doing what they do best: engaging in opaque market operations to shift the pain to the broad mass of innocent people when their schemes start to fall apart. They have used their usual resources to spread the word in advance.

The kind of mass selling we saw today was not designed to be profit maximizing. It was designed to flatten price to affect market sentiment and provoke additional selling. I would imagine we will see some more activity along those lines before this is done.

Andrew Maguire says that there is no physical gold for sale at these prices. I did check a few websites that post decent amounts of gold and silver for sale and the premiums over spot are widening.

This assault on property and savings is not all that different that what is occurring in Europe, except it is happening on a global scale. Time for a grand bail-in, and the mechanism will be the yen, pound, euro and dollar. The banks must be saved and all must pay.

All we can do is be on our watch, and remember who we are, what we know, and what we believe. " jca
.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:17 | 3447014 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Jesse has a great website.  I was only able to get a measly 1 oz of physical late Friday.  And I have heard some reports of physical being harder to get.

On the other hand, China will not take watching their export industries going to hell because of US & Japanese devaluations.  They will devalue to keep their bearings (and everything) moving in world markets.

"The BRICs are going to be in open rebellion if the rest of the G7 joins Japan in massive printing."

LOL...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:34 | 3447067 blindman
blindman's picture

this slam down is going to backfire hugely imo.
people who have been on the fence are now
INTERESTED.
I visited a local dealer on Saturday. this is a dealer
who has been in business for decades and has, normally/
usually, an inventory of a number of items, coins, bars,
gold, silver, a good variety of products. he had no silver,
none, all gone. no gold bullion except for a few 1 oz. bars,
no pamps, just the Canadian and sunshine mint bars and
only a few.. but the interesting part ....
he basically told me to wait to buy till the beginning
of the weak as he intimated the price slam is not over
in his opinion. will there be anything available on Tuesday?
he said there would be but of course we will see.
roll on bearing!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:46 | 3447110 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ a big fat 1

Indeed, watching the 48 hours is going to be very interesting.  

I am not even going to guess re when a price rebound occurs...

Product availability on Tuesday, yes, that will be very informative.

But, I will state that a big price move up in gold will happen at some point as the gold paper / physical decouple.  That time will show who was smart, and who was not.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:44 | 3447255 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

My only hope is they don't gap up the spot price so that hardly anyone can take advantage of the opportunity to jump in, even if premiums are raised.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 18:38 | 3463748 blindman
blindman's picture

48 hours is up, the shop has no product still.
the man has my number for sale of anything that walks in the door.
no call, go figure.
seems there are only buyers and no sellers at these "prices".
just the opposite of the paper market. hehehehhehe
fuck them !
keep converting till they die !!!!!!!!!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:17 | 3446990 blindman
blindman's picture

.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:12 | 3447001 wisefool
wisefool's picture

When are the markets going to open? Ever since the bitcoin stuff I have taken an interest in commodities.

The kitco charts have been stagnant for some time now.

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:14 | 3447006 greggh99
greggh99's picture

"Mike believes that we are currently experiencing Step 6..."

Step 5 hasn't happened yet.

"purchasing power of the currency weakens dramatically"

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:32 | 3447063 G_T_A_44
G_T_A_44's picture

Well, that depends on one's outlook on timeframe/horizon.

Since the Fed's inception, the $USD has lost 97% of its purchasing power.

However, if one were to go back to say, 2002, the $USD has lost 32% of its PP.

Nevertheless, when the dust settles, we'll more than likely witness the $USD trading with a 5-handle.

In due time, that is.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:52 | 3447277 Haager
Haager's picture

I second that. I think we're still at L4 as long as inflation is lower than 3% - a month.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:15 | 3447010 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Houston, we have a supply problem:

http://silverdoctors.com/10-of-us-annual-silver-supply-just-vaporized/


Buying this weekend might be a very good idea.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:18 | 3447016 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Quick!  Buy gold!  And lose all of your money!  Sound fun?  It is if you are a gold bug.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:20 | 3447023 blindman
blindman's picture

how do you define money?
how do you define lose?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:26 | 3447028 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Gold is money.  Krugman is a loser.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:28 | 3447052 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I thought for sure a douche bag like you would get behind buying PM's. That way FRN's just sittin' in smelly sock drawers (bank accounts) would be injected into the economy increasing the velocity of money.

You're just pissed cause nobody wants to buy Treasuries.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:24 | 3447042 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

My money? Our money? You didn't print that!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:36 | 3447069 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

If today you put 1 million dollars in cash into a box and I put 1 million dollars worth of gold into another box and we both open those boxes in twenty years, tell me, who's box will have more purchasing power? The 20 year old gold or the 20 your old FRN's?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:38 | 3447239 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Exactly..Do same with 20 dollar bill in mattress or double eagle 100 yrs ago..
20 bux of paper buys at most 20 bux of stuff, actually its worth about 0.60 buying power from 100 yrs ago..the double eagle is still 1500.00 +

I know it took only 1.00 paper dollar to buy a silver dollar 50 yrs ago... Now it takes 30 paper dollars to buy the same silver dollar...

Got Metal?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:57 | 3447138 akak
akak's picture

Quick!  Buy US Trashuries, which pay an annual rate of return LESS than the real inflation rate, and which can and will plummet in value very soon!  And lose all of your money!  Sound fun?  It is if you are a sociopathic oligarch or his Princeton lackey.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:19 | 3447194 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

Dear Lying Obama loving worm;

 

What HASN'T the Barak Hussein Obowel Movement lied about?

 

 

LOL@SnivelingWormBoy

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:03 | 3447306 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

There's a .50 cal slug out there somewhere with your name on it.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:23 | 3447640 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

remove

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:19 | 3447026 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

The biggest problem right now is many people are trying to take physical possession...

Paper PM people are much like Bitcoin people

If you can't put it in your pocket and run through the woods with your head on fire...it's worthless.

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:25 | 3447040 Room 101
Room 101's picture

A question for y'all.  It occurs to me with the physical premiums being what they are, perhaps a good strategy short term would be to buy futures that are expiring soon and take delivery. What are the costs as compared to your friendly neighborhood coin dealer?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:30 | 3447057 reload
reload's picture

MFG had customers doing that I beleive.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:31 | 3447059 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

That's what the big boys did Friday. Read This.

 

(Others provided this link on Friday so I can take no credit to help boost my immeasruable ego.)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:48 | 3447112 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

(A real devil would take credit anyway...)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:54 | 3447288 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Damn right. Pure Evil is a softy :)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:39 | 3447082 blindman
blindman's picture

I have read that there are considerable fees and your talking
about a lot of product/money, lots!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:46 | 3447111 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

Yeah if you can take delivery

The big buyers (myself included) in my coin shop are not price buyers, they want to turn their disposable income into coins....now.

Everyone's running for the doors, It will get harder from here on out

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:18 | 3447189 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Comex gold contract is 100 ounces. At today's depressed prices that is roughtly $150,000 per contract.

Some people do what you are suggesting. Gerald Celente said he has been speculating in gold futures for years and every time his account gets big enough he takes delivery of a contract.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:26 | 3447046 Cantankerous Canuck
Cantankerous Canuck's picture

I know they want us to think we can never win.  But maybe we can't.  Have you ever thought of that?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:30 | 3447060 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

You can't win in the long run. Eventually, everyone gets a 100% haircut.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:56 | 3447572 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

In the long run... either Krugman is right, or ZH is.  Or both are wrong and we stay in Limbo.  In the meantime, define "long run" -- in a practical and actionable time frame.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:10 | 3447168 blindman
blindman's picture

I know you meant to say "but maybe we can."
and maybe we all can win in the long run and the
haircut is nothing to fear.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:21 | 3447195 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

On a long enough time line the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

Or to put it another way. You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:27 | 3447214 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Not necessarily what I mean. Look at George Soros. The guy will probably be a billionaire until the day he dies. But, on that day he will take a 100% haircut.

As the old saying goes, you can't take it with you. You might be able to have it buried with you, but when your flesh is dust and all that's left is bones, what's the point.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:32 | 3447066 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

All signs point to deflation and a cash, non-taxpaying economy.  The earlier treatise on Japan was pretty dang clear that people hoard their money far beyond the ability of the central bank to entice people to spend.  So, you end up with higher import prices (fuel, food), lower prices on real estate, and fewer and fewer jobs.  I think this guarantees that Benny will launch us into the stratosphere of monetization sometime this year, and that's when gold will be . . . well, golden.  After that, more deflation.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 14:34 | 3447070 Quonk
Quonk's picture

Will we ever see a return of honest price discovery?  I shop the local dealers and they have no Franklin halves or mercury dimes (my personal junk silver faves) with spot at 25.75.  However, over 30 they offer all I can afford.  So what is the real price: the fake one listed on Comex and manipulated by the banksters or the price at which I can actually pry it from a dealer's hands?  I suspect the latter, though I'm sure the Money Honey and the clowns at CNBS would inform me otherwise.

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:07 | 3447164 jim249
jim249's picture

It all depends on what the dealer pays for them. As prices drop their margin is going to increase so they won't have to take losses.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:33 | 3447226 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The actual price for a small retailer is that for which he can sell an item and make a profit. If he sells all his inventory for below cost then he's having a going out of business sale. The small retailer has to make enough money to pay the rent and associated business costs such as procuring more inventory.

For the small time inverstor, you're always gonna pay a premium no matter what the spot price says.

If you suddenly inherit billions of dollars then you can start playing with the big boys and start buy PM's at the spot price. But, then you have to ask yourself, where am I gonna store all that gold and silver.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:35 | 3447388 Quonk
Quonk's picture

The expansion and contraction of their premium is perhaps where we find authentic price discovery?  I can live with that.  Watching the JM and Englehard 10oz bars on Ebay isn't a bad gauge either.  Real people exchanging solid metal in real time.  The rest is fiat.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:10 | 3447166 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

I told you before: as long as products such as SLV and GLD are traded, they can be traded down to 0.0001 or up to .......I am an uneducated boy from the mountains, but as far as I know, phys delivery can only be guaranteed in a few places, Zürich and London, think also Hongkong. Meens, taking into consideration margin calls and all this BS, real phys trading is.......20,30 or ....how much more % of daily trading? Take always in consideration, that GLD snd SLV is only artificial, BUT: that's where the music plays, whether you like it or not, never in the immediate phys deliv. market, never. And 200 West knows that.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:38 | 3447398 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

The paper market  is dependent upon some physical flowing. If there is no one willing to offer physical the paper market must collapse.

THAT is the thing to watch for. We may see a divergence of paper and physical....OR...you could wake up one morning (or one Sunday afternoon) to learn the paper market is gone. All will be settled in cash (at some small amount per share or per ounce. They will say 'go into the physical market to source your metal.)

Quite excitin' I'd say...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:20 | 3447198 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

JPM and Scotia sell 500 tonnes of gold in the futures market and the price of gold drops $85.- NO actual gold gets delivered. A couple of months later they buy it back, the paper that is. Nothing happened except marks sold in panic. The banksters can play games like that for years, and they do, all the while getting wealthier. If it looks like they may actually start loosing some real wealth they change the rules, or send in the marines to take whatever they want.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:37 | 3447232 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Well, the marks sold in panic cause they had to meet margins. But, you are spot on with your analsys.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:41 | 3447233 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

fofoa has a different perspective. I do not know if his is the correct way of viewing current events but it is a perspective different than all other gold writers.

In December he noted that the 'mark to market' of the ECB's gold, for the first time, failed to surpass that of the prior period.

According to the freegold perspective this could herald the collapse of the paper gold market. If you like you can spend the next couple of months catching up...it is not an easy read.

For the lazy...buy physical but expect further decreases in the POG, perhaps to 300/oz and a complete collapse in the supply of physical offered.

Then maybe after a period of months a new 'physical only' market at a much higher price.

If you follow this you might have been long physical gold  and short paper gold and you'd be doing OK. I am doing OK...thanks for askin'.

 

PS the point at which no physical can be sourced is an unknown....do you buy now at 1480 or wait til 1400 and find that NO physical can be had?? good luck...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:10 | 3447330 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

FOFOA is required reading for anyone to see a wider perspective in gold.  My hunch is that he is right.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:11 | 3447336 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

There is always phys around, as much as you want! But prices WE are looking at, are based on what? But again, everyone is happy with that, we want it this way.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:49 | 3447268 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Agree with 1-6, disagree with #7 as inevitable.

A re-anchoring to 'sound' money may not involve PM/Gold. We could get SDRs, or a basket of currencies. Or war -- the Asian or WW3 variety.

Hedge accordingly. How many to beam up?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:54 | 3447269 Lord Drek
Lord Drek's picture

Revelation 13:16-18 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

For years, scholars and learned men (read: men like Paul Krugman) scoffed at the notion of a mark being "in" the forehead or hand; now, with the advent of nanotech implants, we know exactly how the new financial system will be arranged.

Oddly enough, the elite have also begun construction on an underground military installation in Israel called Project 9/11. Read Revelation 9:1-11 to see what they're trying to protect themselves from.

Don't say the book didn't warn ya.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 15:53 | 3447286 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

I don't need to read those long books.
The books of the largest world CBs warned me way before you finished page 1 of your monster book.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:32 | 3447389 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

It is not just the book of money (which, BTW talks a lot about) but it is also the book of Life.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:45 | 3447612 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"Book of Life".  Uh huh.  For healthy skeptics like me, prove to me 2 things:

1. That it is not the Original Ponzi -- which, as a "working hypothesis" I'm assuming to be the case.  AND...

2. That some Ancient Alien (Starship Captain) & Crew haven't been 'violating' more than the Prime Directive?  Easy as Pi back then.

:-)

 

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:52 | 3447553 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"Don't say the book didn't warn ya."

Be thou faithful until death, and I will give thee a Crown of Eternal Life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReevKbb2878&feature=related

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:11 | 3447304 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

remove

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:17 | 3447318 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Let's see... If I had taken Jim Richard's advice and limited my PM exposure to 15-20% (instead of 33%), and invested the rest in the Markets (I didn't), and some into BTC (I didn't), then between last summer and now, I'd be laughing all the way to my JPM branch.

I can just picture my 401k guy now, who advised me not to take a loan on my 401k (to buy PM), cause he did say that what could happen now has happened.

Moral: Since none of us (even ZH, gasp!) can really predict the future with any actionable accuracy, it behooves us to plan and hedge accordingly.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:06 | 3447462 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

It entirely depends on where you think this whole thing is going....

I buy Silver coins because I will be trading/buying/bartering within 10 miles of my home.

I know all the Farmers that live 10 miles from me and they are also buying Silver coins and share my ideals.

Many people here are trying to make sense of our present broken system instead of moving on and accepting a new system where you will have to live with less....but survive.

Yes I think this is about to end, whereas the next guy might think somehow magically we can fix this.

You ask 5 people you get 5 answers.

 

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:07 | 3447606 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

You ask 5 people you get 5 answers.

Usually if you ask 3 engineers you'll get (at least) 4 answers.

Internal conflict, bitchez.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:51 | 3447439 farco
farco's picture

Meanwhile...

"Our shipping crew is working non-stop but due to extreme demand, your order will ship within 20 business days of cleared payment."

My internet coin shop, SilverGoldBull, seems to be overloaded.

"I understand my order will be shipped within 3 weeks of payment"

An "option" to check for buying Maple Leaf coins... Hmm, let's take these American Eagle and Buffalo ones.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:00 | 3447448 Trampy
Trampy's picture

Apmex has been selling all weekend at Friday's closing prices.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:01 | 3447450 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

PPS

fofoa and his sources: Only gold 'no other metals will play a role' (note well the CBs of the world do NOT own silver or platinum or palladium or rhodium)

fofoa and sources: this is not a bull market in gold, it will be a reset and may happen suddenly....delay acquiring physical at your own risk

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:25 | 3447503 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I wish we could get rid of the 'smart guys in underwear' ad and get the crazy blond with the knife bitch back.  I was starting to fantasize over that one.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:36 | 3447521 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Although Mike Maloney was an excellent scholar of the history of money, and he has been a very successful businessman within established systems, his superficial theories regarding "sound money" were not based on money being backed by murder!

Any kind of old fashioned honest money based upon the conservation of matter, as manifested in the gold or silver metal, is nowhere remotely close to emerging technologies based upon the real fact that matter is a form of energy, etc.! Obviously, the properties of gold make it the best expression of the conservation of matter, which enables it to be a store of value, which relates to its history of being treated as money. However, the possession of gold depends upon the existence of "private property."

Private property does not exist outside of some system of public violence. Most people, including businessmen like Mike Maloney, have been able to operate within times where there was a relative stability to the "rule of law," which exists while the dominant military forces are relatively stable. "Sound money" is based on the relative stability of the dynamic equilibria of the murder systems.

The runaway triumph of financial frauds drive the money cycle history, as outlined in this article above. The ability of force to back up those frauds is the necessary condition to enable that to happen. I AGREE that we appear to be nearing the end of an historical phase of relatively stability. Since the end of World War II, the USA has been able to operate as the global reserve currency, and has been able to continue to back that up with violence, in order to keep that going. However, the breakdown of the US dollar as the global reserve currency appears to be happening.

Another recent video from Porter Stansberry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN5BLQLA4FA

The End of America

That is an hour and a half DISCUSSION OF THE US DOLLAR LOSING ITS STATUS AS THE GLOBAL RESERVE CURRENCY, due to runaway financial insanities, whose numbers are constantly becoming more NUTS!  That has motivated another "wealthy businessman," Porter Stansberry, to spend a lot of his own money advertizing his latest instalment in the series of public statements that I have been aware of since 2010. (The last half of that video is merely his sales pitch.)

The problems that would cause go right off the scale, since the reality is combined money/murder systems.

Average Americans have become 10% POORER during the last 5 years, while my hunch is that they are going to get another 40% poorer in the next 10. That will certainly impact upon Canadians, as well as all other countries, to the degree that they are "neighbours" of the USA!

However, that could trigger series events within and outside of the USA to happen, which are unprecedented in human history, since a globalized electronic money system is backed by global atomic murder systems. Those are all in precarious dynamic equilibria, with the USA dominating since World War II. This kind of collapse is never going back to anything like human history was before!

I find it silly to the point of being ridiculous to take for granted "sound money" should be based on the principle of the conservation of matter, i.e., as in the history of metallic money, that does NOT allow itself to be transformed by the progress in science and technologies that have discovered and proven that matter is a superconcentrated form of energy. (Some of the previous comments above, about the monetary value of other heavy and/or radioactive elements, tangentially touched upon that issue.)

What we SHOULD be doing is understanding human civilization as an energy system, within which our monetary measures are more scientifically related to the measurements of energy, which include the value of matter, such as metals. HOWEVER, the deeper dilemma with that concerns perpetual political problems, such as that nobody guards the guardians.

When one approaches human civilization as an energy system, one rediscovers in principle what has already been empirically proven throughout the actual history of civilization. I.e., militarism was the supreme ideology, and all theories of money must and did operate within that. The history of militarism was that success in war was based on deceit. The controlling elements in the human systems have been lies, backed by violence. Human civilizations, from a scientific point of view, regarding them as energy systems, are ALWAYS organized lies, operating organized robberies. That is what the combined money/murder systems actually do ...

That is the real context in which the millennia long monetary cycle outlined in this article above has been operating. The PROBLEM is that we are on the verge of breaking out of that historical spiral, but there was nothing remotely like electronics and atomic energy, which are trillions of times BIGGER, any time before in human history. The PROBLEM with our monetary systems are that they are based on the history of the War Kings becoming the Fraud Kings.

Returning to sound money, or honest money, is as problematic as having sound death controls to back up the debt controls, or having an honest murder system to back up the money system. The PROBLEM with militarisms being the supreme ideologies is that, although warfare is the oldest and best developed social science, success in warfare was based on deceits. Therefore, it was natural that the War Kings gradually transformed into the Fraud Kings (as the international banksters we able to covertly take control over the sovereign powers of states.)

Our emerging political problems are how to cope with the old social pyramid systems of society being amplified many orders of magnitude in size by the breakthrough progress in science and technology. We now understand the energy systems everywhere else way better than we ever did before ... thus global electronic fiat money frauds, backed by weapons of mass destruction, has become the really surreal system we are living inside of NOW.

By and large, I find it laughable how the reactionary revolutionaries recommend that we should go backwards to sound money based on gold and silver, or whatever! Intelligent guys like Mike Maloney may well have been personally successful operating within the established systems, through better understanding of the deeper realities regarding those systems. However, people like him do not appear to be within a light year of coping with human civilizations in which MATTER IS PROVEN TO BE A FORM OF ENERGY, BECAUSE ATOMIC BOMBS GO BOOM!

While it may well be symbolically appropriate to appreciate the theory that gold atoms were made in the supernova explosions of previous generations of stars, the deeper truths that that insight provides do not appear to be remotely close to the understanding of those who think we somehow should go backwards to a more honest sound money based on the conservation of matter, such as exemplified in gold backed money.

The deeper reality is that gold backed money depends upon murder backed money, because the private possession of gold depends upon some system of public violence to enforce that claim. Those who operate more or less within the established systems manage to take for granted the coercion that backs their claims up. However, from theoretical points of view, that presumption begs the questions way too much!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:39 | 3447814 honestann
honestann's picture

There are a great many valid ways to look at what's happening in the world today.  However, the real bottom line is, are humans free or not.  If they are not free, in a very short number of years, they will be wholesale slaughtered off by the predators-that-be and predator-class.  These predators have no ethics, they only have a modus-operandi, and that modus-operandi is "get away with whatever you want and can".

If the vast majority of humans will accept this treatment because they are brainwashed, clueless or afraid, then humans are finished - flat out finished.

The tiny, tiny percentage who "really get it" have been laboring under the notion that they need to convince the a majority of sheeple what is happening, and get them on the side of liberty.  By now it should be clear that the vast majority humans are beyond becoming sane, beyond becoming honest, beyond becoming rational, beyond becoming intellectually independent.

Therefore, the tiny, tiny percentage who "really get it" (say, 98% get it) need to disconnect from the rest of humanity and find ways to evade the predators.  So far, this is not happening --- the number of collaborations is infintesimal.

Those who "really get it" need to clearly understand is this.  The vast, vast, vast majority of human beings are flat-out your enemy.  Not only can you not convert them, but they sanction the predators, they support the predators, they want a system in which they may "get something for nothing".  They know "get something for nothing" actually means "get something from the predators who turn around and steal huge wealth from those productive folks who really get it, keep most of it for themselves, and throw mere breadcrumbs to the masses of sheeple".

The predators no longer need the masses of sheeple to stay in office.  But the sheeple don't know that yet.  Nonetheless, the sheeple will happily sanction, advocate and support the predators all the way to the end of the line for them.  They will give tips to the predators, they will turn their friends and family in for $100 of worthless fiat debt-notes, they will do anything and everything to support the predators-that-be and predator-class (banksters and mega-corporation-executives).

In short, they are not for us to save, they are our enemies, and ultimately they are the ones who carry out all the atrocities when the predators give them a uniform, a fictional title, a fiat paycheck, and orders to kill and steal.

The time to convert is over.  It didn't work.  Just about zero humans converted to ideas of individualism and liberty.  When people don't decide to be individuals by age 4 or 5 or 8, they never do --- they become supporters and agents of the predators.  They've been firmly in the dark side of the force for too long.

The only escape for the few who "get it" is independence.  Or call it evasion (meaning, leave the countries controlled by powerful gangs of predators, and make a simple, productive life somewhere the so-called government is too poor to cause much harm, massively incompetent (a bunch of keystone cop types), or less predatorial.

Stay far, far, far away from cities, because that's where predators operate and focus their efforts, because that's where huge quantities of their human prey live.  Stay out of site, out of mind, and invest your efforts into becoming more and more "out of site" and more and more "self-sufficient".

By now there should be several places established on this planet for productive people who "get it".  To date, I don't know of any.  The closest to this appear to be the DougCasey and SimonBlack communities, but they are much too "on the radar" and subject to overt predatory confiscation (all at once, or via massive "property taxes" or "asset taxes" or "wealth taxes" or "who-knows-what-they-will-dream-up).

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:16 | 3447856 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

"... are humans free or not ..." ???

I will give you my transcendental poetry answer, honestann:

As soon as we define human beings, then, by that definition, they NOT free. To the degree that we define their boundaries, then they MUST get energy and matter from across those boundaries, in order to continue to live.

Human beings are only "free" to the degree that they are not defined. Thus, I tend to ascribe to the perfect paradox, that we ARE the Whole Universe, and thus, since that is infinite, we ARE too ... However, no useful information is found within such transcendental poetry perceptions. All relatively useful information is relatively finite. Thus, paradoxically, only the relative illusions regarding the degrees of separateness, or subtraction from the Whole, are useful to the relatively finite beings.

In order to BE human we name things, including ourselves, and then assemble those names, with their properties, into stories. Thus, the narrative about human beings and human civilization becomes a Great Story, which is more or less treated to be "sacred," because it is our story. (However, those are all still just stories.) Thus, we are NOT free to the degree to which we are stuck inside of our defined limits, and free to the degree to which we can transcend those limits. The interesting struggle between those are what human realities are, where we operate through systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies, BUT, the subtraction is never absolute, and so, the processes of robbery are never finished.

Given that philosophical context, of the kind of transcendental poetry I like, I turn to the rest of your reply, honestann.

Of course, I basically agreed with your view. We are relatively STUCK inside an established social system where the matching participants are the Vicious Wolves AND the Zombie Sheeple. BOTH are our enemies, because BOTH got relatively fixated inside their own stories.

However, personally, I do not follow your kind of advice, ... although I see considerable merit in it ... That path was deliberately not the one I chose. Instead, I took the opposite kind of path. To be honest, honestann, right now my path looks pretty stupid and dismal, for precisely the reasons you outlined in your reply above.

99% of the people act like adamant political idiots, and the 1% that dominate them work to keep that way ... and those things have been going on, and on, for so many thousands of years of history, that their systems appear way too well-established to be able to be creatively changed ... other than through their runaway madness destroying themselves.

So ... my path looks quite ridiculous, when viewed more realistically, but nevertheless, my goal has been to work towards catalysing the coming collapse into chaos, in ways that MIGHT mitigate that, and thereby have something better emerge on the other side ... Such a vainglorious day dream, I know, but still, that has repeatedly been the path that I decided to continue to take ... despite it way more probably turning out to be a dead-end, for the reasons you gave above, honestann, in your reply.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 23:11 | 3448421 honestann
honestann's picture

Well, one big problem people like you and I share is... every option looks pretty stupid and dismal at this point.  To be sure, a very, very few of us managed to create [close-as-possible-to] self-sufficient and hidden hideouts in extreme boonies, and maybe that will let us live our lives out in relative comfort, security and sanity.  But that sure as hell doesn't do much for the other 99.999999% of humanity, nor for the rest of human history.

I don't know much about your path, but it appears you still try things with more widespread benefit, if they work out.  To be sure, the very best result of a large-scale catastrophy is the complete elimination of the predators-that-be and predator-class when human behavior explodes completely and quickly.  A nice plan, and I hope that works.  I just don't believe it will.

On the other hand, as I already said, my approach doesn't do squat for mankind as a whole, it just makes my life more enjoyable.  That is, that part of my approach that was about self-sufficiency and evasion.  The other part of my plan is the "frontier plan".  As I've said, the reason the current time in history is far and away the worst ever is... a lack of a new frontier for those humans who are more brave, self-confident, and liberty-oriented to flee to.  While some on-earth possibilities do exist, and might work ---I suspect they won't, because the current predators are completely hell-bent on controlling and destroying everyone on planet earth.

That's why I'm guessing the only practical approach is for some small group of humans to achieve the final frontier, that is, life in outer space.  The predators cannot control outer space, not now, and not ever (unless inexpensive and practical FTL for macroscopic objects becomes a reality, which I believe will never happen).  As it turns out, it will be a non-space-travel technology that makes it possible for a small group to leave earth and inhabit asteroids and spacecraft in outer space.

Of course this achievement will not save mankind either, only a few to a few dozen individual humans.  Not much of a legacy when measured in quantity, so quality will have to suffice.

I give my support and respect to anyone making any serious effort to achieve a better world after the coming collapse, mass enslavement, and mass extermination.  It is best we give as many approaches as possible a try, and hope that at least one of them works.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:30 | 3447523 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

twenty years of monetary blowback are coming, buy gold bitchez

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