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Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Wounded In Serious Condition, Will Get "Public Safety" Exception To Miranda

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The nightly developments continue as we learn next that Tsarnaev is in serious (or critical according to Bloomberg) condition in the hospital, with a gunshot wound to the neck and leg, and that perhaps just as importantly, he will not get his Miranda warning, instead the FBI is overruling due process and using the "public safety" exception instead.

The wound speak for themselves. Those wishing to learn in what circumstances the Miranda Rights can be overruled, read on.

From the FBI:

The "Public Safety" Exception to Miranda

After 44 years, the Miranda decision stands as a monolith in police procedure.1 Its requirements are so well known that the Supreme Court remarked, "Miranda has become embedded in routine police practice to the point where the warnings have become part of our national culture."2 And, although the Supreme Court has clarified and refined Miranda over the years, its central requirements are clear.3 Whenever the prosecution seeks in its direct case to introduce a statement made by a suspect while in custody and in response to interrogation, it must prove that the subject was warned of specific rights and voluntarily waived those rights.4 The penalty imposed on the prosecution for failing to prove that the Miranda procedures were properly followed is harsh. While some secondary and limited uses of statements obtained in violation of Miranda are permitted, such statements are presumed to be coerced and cannot be introduced by the prosecution in its direct case.5

The strength of the Miranda decision is its clarity in its nearly unwavering protection of a suspect's Fifth Amendment protection against selfincrimination. The commitment to this rule is so strong that the Supreme Court has recognized only one exception to the Miranda rule—the "public safety" exception—which permits law enforcement to engage in a limited and focused unwarned interrogation and allows the government to introduce the statement as direct evidence.

Recent and well-publicized events, including the attempted bombing of Northwest Airlines Flight 235 near Detroit, Michigan, on December 25, 2009, and the attempted bombing in New York City's Times Square in May 2010, highlight the importance of this exception.6 Those current events, occurring in a time of heightened vigilance against terrorist acts, place a spotlight on this law enforcement tool, which, although 26 years old, may play a vital role in protecting public safety while also permitting statements obtained under this exception to be used as evidence in a criminal prosecution. In brief, and as discussed in this article, police officers confronting situations that create a danger to themselves or others may ask questions designed to neutralize the threat without first providing a warning of rights. This article discusses the origins of the public safety exception and provides guidance for law enforcement officers confronted with an emergency that may require interrogating a suspect held in custody about an imminent threat to public safety without providing Miranda warnings.

ORIGIN OF THE RULE

The origin of the public safety exception to Miranda, the case of New York v. Quarles, began in the early morning hours of September 11, 1980. While on routine patrol in Queens, New York, two New York City police officers were approached by a young woman who told them that she had just been raped. She described the assailant as a black male, approximately 6 feet tall, wearing a leather jacket with "Big Ben" printed in yellow letters on the back. The woman told the officers that the man had just entered a nearby supermarket and that he was carrying a gun.

The officers drove to the supermarket, and one entered the store while the other radioed for assistance. A man matching the description was near a checkout counter, but upon seeing the officer, ran to the back of the store. The officer pursued the subject, but lost sight of him for several seconds as the individual turned a corner at the end of an aisle. Upon finding the subject, the officer ordered him to stop and to put his hands over his head. As backup personnel arrived, the officer frisked the man and discovered he was wearing an empty shoulder holster. After handcuffing him, the officer asked where the gun was. The man gestured toward empty milk cartons and said, "The gun is over there." The officer found and removed a loaded handgun from a carton, formally placed the man under arrest, and then read the Miranda rights to him. The man waived his rights and answered questions about the ownership of the gun and where it was purchased.7

The state of New York charged the man, identified as Benjamin Quarles, for criminal possession of a weapon.8 The trial court excluded the statement "The gun is over there," as well as the handgun, on the grounds that the officer did not give Quarles the warnings required by Miranda v. Arizona. 9 After an appellate court affirmed the decision, the case was appealed to the New York State Court of Appeals.

The New York Court of Appeals upheld the trial court decision by a 4 to 3 vote.10 According to the New York Court of Appeals, because Quarles responded "to the police interrogation while he was in custody, [and] before he had been given the preinterrogation warnings…," the lower courts properly suppressed the statement and the gun.11 The court refused to recognize an emergency exception to Miranda and noted that even if there were such an exception, there was "no evidence in the record before us that there were exigent circumstances posing a risk to the public safety or that the police interrogation was prompted by such concern."12 In dissent, Judge Watchler believed that there was a public safety exception to Miranda and that the facts presented such a situation. Judge Watchler noted that "Miranda was never intended to enable a criminal defendant to thwart official attempts to protect the general public against an imminent, immediate and grave risk of serious physical harm reasonably perceived."13 He also believed there was "a very real threat of possible physical harm which could result from a weapon being at large."14 The state of New York appealed the case to the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court ruled on these facts that a public safety exception to Miranda existed. To understand how the Court reached this conclusion and the implications of this exception on the admissibility of the statement and the handgun, a consideration of a summary of the steps used by the Court is important.

The first step toward this conclusion was a discussion by the Court of the relationship between the Miranda requirements and the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Fifth Amendment provides that "[n]o person…shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself."15 The Fifth Amendment "does not prohibit all incriminating admissions," only those that are "officially coerced selfaccusations…." 16 In Miranda, the Supreme Court "for the first time extended the Fifth Amendment privilege against compulsory self-incrimination to individuals subjected to custodial interrogation by the police."17 Thus, Miranda created a presumption that "interrogation in custodial circumstances is inherently coercive" and that statements obtained under those circumstances "are inadmissible unless the subject is specifically informed of his Miranda rights and freely decides to forgo those rights."18 Importantly, the Court noted that Miranda warnings were not required by the Constitution, but were prophylactic measures designed to provide protection for the Fifth Amendment privilege against selfincrimination. 19

After providing this explanation of the relationship between the Fifth Amendment and Miranda, the Court explained that Quarles did not claim that his statements were "actually compelled by police conduct which overcame his will to resist."20 Had police officers obtained an involuntary or coerced statement from Quarles in violation of the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment, both the statement and the handgun would have been suppressed. 21 And, in this regard, the Court explained that the failure to administer Miranda warnings does not, standing alone, make a confession involuntary in violation of the Constitution. 22

The Supreme Court then proceeded to determine whether the Miranda rule was implicated in this case and agreed with the New York Court of Appeals that it was. The Court agreed with the New York courts that Quarles was in custody. As the Court noted, "Quarles was surrounded by at least four police officers and was handcuffed when the questioning at issue took place."23 Therefore, on the facts of the case, the Court found that the Miranda decision was clearly implicated. The Court then referred to the determination by the New York courts that there was nothing in the record indicating that any of the police officers were concerned with their safety when they questioned Quarles. The Supreme Court noted that the New York Court of Appeals did not address the issue of whether there was an exception to Miranda in cases that involve a danger to the public "because the lower courts in New York made no factual determination that the police had acted with that motive."24

The Supreme Court chose to address whether a public safety exception to Miranda should exist. In this regard, the Court held that: "there is a 'public safety' exception to the requirement that Miranda warnings be given before a suspect's answers may be admitted into evidence, and the exception does not depend upon the motivation of the individual officers involved."25 Thus, according to the Court, without regard to the actual motivation of the individual officers, Miranda need not be strictly followed in situations "in which police officers ask questions reasonably prompted by a concern for the public safety."26

The Court then applied the facts to the situation confronting them when Quarles was arrested. In the course of arresting Quarles, it became apparent that Quarles had removed the handgun and discarded it within the store. While the location of the handgun remained undetermined, it posed a danger to public safety.27 In this case, the officer needed an answer to the question about the location of the gun to ensure that its concealment in a public location would not endanger the public. The immediate questioning of Quarles was directed specifically at resolving this emergency. Since the questioning of Quarles was prompted by concern for public safety, the officers were not required to provide Miranda warnings to Quarles first. Therefore, the statement made by Quarles about the location of the handgun was admissible.28 In addition, because the Court found there was no violation of Miranda, the handgun also was admissible. The Court declined to address whether the handgun would have been suppressed if the statements were found to be inadmissible.29

FRAMEWORK OF THE EXCEPTION

The Quarles case provides a framework that police officers can use to assess a particular situation, determine whether the exception is available, and ensure that their questioning remains within the scope of the rule. This framework includes the presence of a public safety concern, limited questioning, and voluntariness.

Limited Questioning

The Quarles Court made clear that only those questions necessary for the police "to secure their own safety or the safety of the public" were permitted under the public safety exception.35 In U.S. v. Khalil, New York City police officers raided an apartment in Brooklyn after they received information that Khalil and Abu Mezer had bombs in their apartment and were planning to detonate them.36 During the raid, both men were shot and wounded as one of them grabbed the gun of a police officer and the other crawled toward a black bag believed to contain a bomb. When the officers looked inside the black bag, they saw pipe bombs and observed that a switch on one bomb was flipped.

Officers went to the hospital to question Abu Mezer about the bombs. They asked Abu Mezer "how many bombs there were, how many switches were on each bomb, which wires should be cut to disarm the bombs, and whether there were any timers."37 Abu Mezer answered each question and also was asked whether he planned to kill himself in the explosion. He responded by saying, "Poof."38

Abu Mezer sought to suppress each of his statements, but the trial court permitted them, ruling that they fell within the public safety exception. On appeal, Abu Mezer only challenged the admissibility of the last question, whether he intended to kill himself when detonating the bombs. He claimed the question was unrelated to public safety. The circuit court disagreed and noted "Abu Mezer's vision as to whether or not he would survive his attempt to detonate the bomb had the potential for shedding light on the bomb's stability."39

A common theme throughout cases such as this is the importance of limiting the interrogation of a subject to questions directed at eliminating the emergency. Following Quarles, at least two federal circuit courts of appeals have addressed the issue of the effect of an invocation of a right on the exception. In U.S. v. De- Santis, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that the public safety exception applies even after the invocation of counsel.40 According to the court: "The same consideration that allows the police to dispense with providing Miranda warnings in a public safety situation also would permit them to dispense with the prophylactic safeguard that forbids initiating further questioning of an accused who requests counsel."41

In U.S. v. Mobley, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals also ruled that the public safety exception applied even when the subject had invoked his right to counsel.42 The court recognized that a threat to public safety still may exist even after Miranda rights are provided and invoked.

CONCLUSION

The "public safety" exception to Miranda is a powerful tool with a modern application for law enforcement. When police officers are confronted by a concern for public safety, Miranda warnings need not be provided prior to asking questions directed at neutralizing an imminent threat, and voluntary statements made in response to such narrowly tailored questions can be admitted at trial. Once the questions turn from those designed to resolve the concern for safety to questions designed solely to elicit incriminating statements, the questioning falls outside the scope of the exception and within the traditional rules of Miranda.

 

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Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:33 | 3475727 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

WTF is a public safety exception?

Is that anything like a free speech zone for the 5th Amendment?

 

The spineless sheeple will support this all the way to complete tyranny for their safety

 

 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:03 | 3475894 object_orient
object_orient's picture

Sure you can protest against the president along the parade route. But you'll be 14 blocks away, in a chain link enclosure, where nobody can see or hear you. The government has no problem respecting your rights, so long as they remain ineffective.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:49 | 3475735 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

deleted for not undertanding the issue.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:38 | 3475744 Precious
Precious's picture

<- Public Safety Exception

<- Handcuffs Exception

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:37 | 3475745 Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

The reasoning seems to be:

 

1. Public safety overrides constitutional rights.

2. Guns constitute a threat to public safety.

3. Therefore, gun owners have no constitutional rights.

Did I get that right?

 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:52 | 3475845 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

Da Comrade!

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:45 | 3476083 Popo
Popo's picture

Miranda != constitutional right

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 12:02 | 3477091 noless
noless's picture

you have a constitutionally designated right to not be forced to act as witness against yourself. as in, coerced testimony or false confession, without this right the legal system could not function, as within a judges court, if you could be forced to make a statement against yourself, as in, a confession, then the entire process would be null, there could be no impartial trials, all trials would be show trials.

also, if it was viewed as a "lawful order" by "peace officers" it would implicitly condone torture and arbitrary indefinite detention.

 

imagine a courtroom trial where a judge addresses the accused to implicate themselves in a crime, and if they don't obey the judges order they are held in contempt of court, repeat indefinitely to avoid cruel and unusual.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:43 | 3475786 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

The Aunt in Toronto turned them in to the FBI? Crazy.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:43 | 3475791 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

getting better all the time,

first - citywide marshal law

then - "public safety" BS,

is there public safety exception for torture?

next - re-educatioin camps for "publicly unsafe"

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:07 | 3475917 object_orient
object_orient's picture

Alan Dershowitz on The Case for Torture Warrants.

http://www.alandershowitz.com/publications/docs/torturewarrants.html

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:47 | 3476373 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

 

 

 

 

wertvolle Jude

 


Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:22 | 3476548 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Dershowitz?

You might as well take a dump on a dinner plate and offer that up.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:45 | 3475801 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

I'm glad they got the guy. But, it took 10,000 cops to do it.

Not what I'd call efficient. As for Miranda, or any other right, including the one to your bank account, or life and liberty, forget about it.

The EU has proven that people exist for the good of the collective banker association. They don't have the guts to actually admit it openly in the US, but it's pretty much implied.

The open admission will need a carefully planned series of events, which I'm sure is in the works.

 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:48 | 3475811 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Great strategy!  This way the can suppress the first part of the transcript showing that he greeted the FBI agents by their first names.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:18 | 3475969 nyquil762
nyquil762's picture

That was funny as all get out!

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:47 | 3475814 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Miranda... an anachronism in the post rule of law era.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:47 | 3475816 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

First, one can understand the relief of the Boston police officers that this guy has been caught, and empathise with the tension and, in many cases, fear they have felt as they have gone about their duty.

But systemically what has happened?

First, the US government decided to take in Muslims, including these guys, knowing that most terrorist events around the world are committed by Muslims.  And before any nutter starts yammering on about McVeigh or someone else, the fact that you have some home grown killers is not actually a persuasive argument for importing more from overseas.

Now we learn the FBI had their eye on the older brother for some years, but instead of actually stopping him from blowing up children and other American citizens, they basically just told him to be more clandestine in the way he went about preparing for terror.  And we also know the FBI didn't tell American citizens of this stuff up.  Instead it concealed its prior knowledge until it was outed by his mother and foreign reports.

After the two guys were involved in a firefight, and one killed, the government shut down the whole of Boston, a major US city, at great expense to the citizens of Boston, while they hunted for one wounded 19 year old killer.

What we have seen is one disaster after another inflicted on American citizens by their government(s).

There are obviously suspicions the US government had a more malign hand in what occurred.  Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.  But without assuming that, what we see is incompetence run riot, leading to massive personal, social and economic costs to American citizens.  And now they are backslapping themselves about a "job well done".

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:16 | 3475965 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

I feel bad for the boys in the field they do there darnedest, there trained well, but the behavior of those in charge, sicken me.

 

Give the boy his rights and hang him.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:58 | 3476589 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

People like you make mobs so frightening.

Should this person be involved in what may be an act of aggression against US personally, his survival would ensure he would name people whom he associated with.  The prisons are filled with victimless criminals.  Having this guy in there for a few years. to find out if there is a network in place, would be worth while.

There is also clear reason to believe this could be a false flag.  Six months ago or less, the world learned Viet Nam war was begun on a false premise.  The 9-11 story is filled with so many holes, it's beyond the need to even cite them any longer. By the way, 9-11 hearings were scheduled

There is no hurry to investigate this.  Why the rush?  Is a bullhorn and negotiations no longer a tactic?  You have so little information that to end your comment with an execution only enforces my belief that many have lost their sense of right and wrong.

http://www.cruisebruise.com/Scopolamine.html

 

https://twitter.com/CBS8/status/325148541762801664/photo/1 (naked tourist)

The last time I watched naked people beingled by guards was while perusing a holocaust site.

You better stop and take a look around.  What you have before you is one man's enemy.  But the next guy in control? You just could be the kind of enemy he'd have on his list.

 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:56 | 3475852 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

If they give the guy an opportunity to lawyer-up there might well be disclosure of stuff they don't want disclosed.  This way, they think they can control what gets to the public. 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 22:58 | 3475867 freedogger
freedogger's picture

Take a look at the picture. They are putting a King Airway into this guy's throat. Miranda or not, he won't be talking and incriminating himself with that in there. 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:07 | 3475916 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Are these cops going to put in for OVERTIME? I wonder if the donut shoppe caters, since Tyler is all bout reporting about caters, and did the governor, mayor and every other meat head politician have a nice meal during this emergency.

Just saying!!

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:06 | 3475920 Bear
Bear's picture

Miranda ... a total joke. There isn't a criminal that can't quote it perfectly. I respect the Constitution; however, I really doubt that the framer's intention was for 'justice' to be perverted by not informing a criminal of his 'rights'. Nidal Hasan is still awaiting justice (how many years?) ... the Constitution promoted swift justice, so alleged (or obviously guilty) criminals wouldn't languish in jail without trial and swift acquittal or punishment.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:22 | 3475991 Monedas
Monedas's picture

First time offenders .... should have it .... tattoed in reverse .... on their chests .... so they can read it in a mirror .... as a condition for parole !

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:26 | 3476208 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Thank your politicized lawyers and courts for the delays in justice, not awareness of rights.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:12 | 3476761 Vooter
Vooter's picture

I hate to break it to you, but you (and most of the rest of this country) are just L-A-Z-Y. No matter what situation you're presented with, you want it wrapped up in an hour so you can move on to the next show. YOUR LIFE IS TV. Pretty sad...

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:09 | 3475934 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

This kid might end up suiciding himself by shooting himself in the back of the head THREE TIMES.

Just saying!!!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:27 | 3476211 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Nah, he'll beat himself to death and then cut his own throat for good measure, ala Kenny Trentadue.

http://kennethtrentadue.com/information.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Michael_Trentadue

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 08:03 | 3476594 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

50/50 the suicide weapon cannot be found.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:10 | 3475947 forwardho
forwardho's picture

There was a time when  "equal justice under law"  was a foundation upon which our country prided itself.

Does the least awake of you have any faith that the principle exists today?

The "laws" of this nation  apply now only to those who fall below a certain net worth.

We are no longer a nation of laws, truth and justice are to be purchased by the highest bidder.

I weep for the passing of my country.

I find myself a stranger in a strange land.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:16 | 3475964 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Forward Hoes .... You'd be strange .... wherever you went  .... you can't read Miranda .... to an unconscious .... piece of shit  .... you (the taxpayers) .... would be sued .... for medical mal practice .... pilfering the scum's golden hour !

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:08 | 3476750 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Gee, you're a pretty terrified little monkey, aren't you? LOL...

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:12 | 3475949 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Miranda rights .... how about letting the perp .... accept the contingencies .... of the chaos .... he foisted on those .... who have to clean up .... his mess .... bloody mess .... as in German army field kitchen .... butchering peasants cows !

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:07 | 3476743 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Hmmm...how about letting the banks accept the contingencies of the chaos they foisted on this country? Or do we just have different laws for different situations and different levels of wealth and power? OF COURSE WE DO. Now fuck off...

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:17 | 3475970 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

We're never again going to see this individual not hopped up to the gills on forced medications. That's presuming he lives, which I highly suspect he (conveniently for certain three-letter agencies) won't.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:28 | 3476009 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The constitution .... prohibits .... cruel and unusual punishment .... nothing about CREATIVE, IMAGINATIVE, TAILORED PUNISHMNET .... that fits the crime !

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:34 | 3476042 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

I've said that for years.

 

Let the cruel and unusual punishments fit the cruel and unusual crimes.

 

Put it on pay-per-view, and use proceeds to pay down the national debt.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:07 | 3476157 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

you'll be the first to go on RUNNING MAN!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 02:06 | 3476351 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

"These coloreds don't run."

 

Besides, this was a hate crime, because race was involved.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:32 | 3476033 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Simple, announce that he died at the hospital. Give his family an unknown corpse from some morgue, and fly him to Russia for interrogation.

 

No lengthy trial, and they know how to make chechens talk.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:34 | 3476043 loregnum
loregnum's picture

The cops said their goal was to take him alive and they decided the best way to do that was to shoot him in the neck? Yeah that fits.

I like this public safety clause. This guy is one of the most evil people to ever exist. He makes guys like Hitler look like chumps with his alleged bombing killing 3 whole people and seriously injuring maybe 10-15 more people. People can say "it could have been worse" but I don't think that was the point as they could have created more powerful bombs if mass damage and death were the goal. 

Yes, if he truly did do the bombings and wasn't some patsy then he is a big douche and deserves whatever punishment he gets yet this event is being blown up beyond belief. I wonder if they are ever going to allow the Boston sports teams to play again in the city. Locking a city/area down trying to find one guy. Yikes.

Oh and if this guy is guilty then brilliant job of his and his now dead brother to not leave the area during the 3 days they had the ability to do so. That is another thing that doesn't fit...they bomb a place without much regard of being noticed yet seeked to live and get away with it, don't leave the area when the FBI supposedly has no clue who did this yet they fight to not be taken in when the manhunt is on to the point of one guy being killed and the other hiding in a boat for what, 3 or 4 hours surrounded by a billion cops. EIther there is something fishy about this or they were just two dumb guys too stupid to think about leaving.  

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:59 | 3476590 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Putting the bombs in the litter bins at the end of the marathon would normally be a fools plan, unless of course, they knew that the police had a policy not to touch those bins during the race.

 

So we have a police anti-terrorist drill the day of the event, which means anti terrorist measures were carried out during the race...and they forgot to check the bins.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:01 | 3476099 Trampy
Trampy's picture

Not Mirandizing him is a red herring where the FBI agent who answered the question may have just been feeling cocky to assert their status as lead federal agency ... her answer may have been directed to CIA more than anywhere else.

Could anyone doubt he knows that he has right to not self-incriminate, and right to an attorney whether or not he can afford one?

He had all day to think about what if anything he'd say if caught, and if he would even let himself be taken, and doesn't at all seem like he'll be making any spontaneous self-incriminating statements out of ignorance that he can stay silent.  And, for now at least, there is no public safety exception for allowing torture.

If I were in his shoes, I'd be fearful:

1) that my injuries make me very vulnerable to TORTURE during interrogation, and

2) that POTUS could invoke the NDAA and tell FBI to hand me over to CIA for disposal.

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:52 | 3476110 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

In times of war, the Constitution often takes a back seat (remember FDR and the Japanese? Abe? Etc.). We are at war, like it or not.

But not legally.

Hence, all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about due process. You can due process yourself to suicide. Look at Gitmo. Still arguing over the size of the judges' gavel after a decade. I would love to see those lawyer's billable hours.

I'm no fan of the indefinite war on terror. All we have done is just placed Christians in the free-fire zone between zionists and muslims.  Strangely, one group is not doing much of the dying.

And the casualites are mounting (at least for two of the aforementioned groups). We will no doubt be hit again and again and again because the majority of the electorate are ignorant and liberal-minded (which is another way of saying dreamers).  Even today the libs would vote to alow more Islamic immigration (and pay for their keep), just to show how enlightened and compassionate they are.

That is why we need to declare war on al queda or some other fuckers, if we keep insisting on being the shield of Zion, which I would rather not be.

This would put the constitution bullshit to rest for those engaged in terrorist activity.  Terrorism is a war crime, not a felony.  When you watched the news, did it not look like the army was going after them? It was in all but name.

And then once they are captured, instead of club fed, it's blow torches & pliers, bitchez. 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 23:54 | 3476117 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Public Policy and Legal Precedent:

From now on, ALL such cases of DR (Domestic Terrorism) will automatically be exempt from Miranda Rights.  The danger lies in the potentially 'flexible (arbitrary/fiat) manner with which the classification of DR will be applied.  At first the bar will be fairly high -- like right now -- but in tine, it will be lowered.  When the public becomes dulled and desensitized enough.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:05 | 3476147 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

The public has never been duller.

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:04 | 3476142 nomorebuyins
nomorebuyins's picture

Miranda is one of the most powerful laws protecting the people from tyrants abuse of power. Waving this right in a huge public case sets the stage for the end of this protection for all of us. They have set a new precedence. Welcome to the USSA!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:08 | 3476161 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ nomorebuyins:

Republican Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham called for Tsarnaev to be deemed an 'enemy combatant'.

Thank God we have great patriots like McCain and Graham working to keep America safe!

</sarc>

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:48 | 3476247 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

If they aren't the pots calling the kettles black...

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:05 | 3476153 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

IOW: you have no rights, fucker!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:06 | 3476155 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

Who wrote that garbage from the FBI?

 

It reads like a Wikipedia post

 

Are they going to burn the Constitution, type it into Wikipedia and let the DOJ be the Admin on the post next?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 00:21 | 3476195 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

""Public Safety" Exception To Miranda"

What is that? Is it like a broken broomstick in the ass?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 01:24 | 3476307 Shooting Shark
Shooting Shark's picture

As I said in the days of Hamdan and Boumediene, the ill-advised mixing of military and judicial processes will work both ways.  America's refusal to take seriously a war thrust upon us will not end well.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 01:37 | 3476317 Kina
Kina's picture

I thought they would have Droned him. Just incase he was innocent

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 04:43 | 3476443 nick howdy
nick howdy's picture

No Miranda rights! They'll make this patsy confess....This whole story stinks...

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 05:15 | 3476459 Expat
Expat's picture

This is not surprising.  And I am not even disappointed.  I am sure that the special interrogation team will use "enhanced methods" on this suspect.  And I am sure that 90% of Americans will approve of and enourage the use of torture on this suspect.

Since we can't go to war with Russia or Chechnya over this minor fiasco (yes, that is all it is...a minor fiasco.  If you want to save American lives outlaw guns, cars, swimming pools, cigarettes, and alcohol), we will now go to war with ourselves.  Look forward to increased security as the DHS invents new colors for their Spring Collection (Level Mauve is Soooo hot this spring!).    Look forward to government organized neighborhood watches (Commander, you look fetching in that brown shirt with lightning bolt epaulettes!).  Look forward to renewed attacks on the French (Goddam cheese-eating surrender monkies!  They supplied the pressure cookers! )

Goodbye to the last myths of American freedom and exceptionalism.  Goodbye to being the good guys for the last time.  Goodbye to Hollywood, my surburban youth, and your children's future.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 05:38 | 3476478 negative rates
negative rates's picture

He's been shot in the neck, you can't torture someone much more than that.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 05:20 | 3476463 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

this whole fake terrorist event is manufactured to destroy miranda....miranda is the most wonderful legacy of the 50s/60s and requires no exceptions....after all, if the police can track down a supposed assassin of a president in 45 minutes, surely they can sniff out a bomb in 10 minutes....

just like the beltway bomber, these two mk ultra subjects were created to destroy law and protection....police routinely stop people without probable cause, shake them down, beat them, and incarcerate them....you are at the mercy of a nazi police force whose respect for presumption of innocense, rights and privacy is completely non-existent...police are nazi thugs....it is completely laughable that hundreds of gestapos were needed to control 1 19 year old kid...

shoot first, then ask questions....the same horsecrap was applied to sirhan sirhan, another mk ultra subject....the public had no facts - just the river of lies from the newsfakers....he has been locked up for life because of crooked police, lawyers, judges, and cia - and he is not an exception.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 06:11 | 3476492 ozzz169
ozzz169's picture

Disturbing... its these times that the law must be upheld the most. Love them or hate them they are the law and should be upheld. This seems to be pretty solid case but what about next time when the case is not so good and they have the wrong guy, and some over zealot FED tramples your rights for the "public safety" and has it wrong?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 06:14 | 3476493 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

Why not just read him his rights and follow the usual process?

 

Why possible reason is there for not reading him his rights and quizzing him under the framework of the law?

 

Are they trying to help his lawyer??

 

 

Where is the line in the sand here? Who ever thought it was possible to dissolve human rights with a bit of wiring and some pressure cookers?

 

How can this kid possibly get a fair trial? Even the POTUS has branded him a terrorist in worldwide media. 

 

 

Nixon would fucking love this, he was right all along. It's not against the law when the president does it.

 

This is Nixon2

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:03 | 3476530 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Place yourself on an elevation, take a binocular and look all the way back to the horizon. The fine line you can see when the weather is real clear - that's the line in the sand you asked about. 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 06:16 | 3476494 o-antonio-maria
o-antonio-maria's picture

Preparing the nation for the worse. I mean for a new stylish dictatorship :(

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 06:18 | 3476495 Longtermnotreally
Longtermnotreally's picture

A 19-year old boy was killed, the governement is now judge and executioner

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:00 | 3476527 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

It also redacts all the news ...

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 20:31 | 3481863 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

Correction, The 19 year old bomber is alive, but is unlikely to ever have parole if convicted. I am ok with his unpleasant future. He still has 2 legs.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 06:47 | 3476516 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

You are permitted free speech as long as you do not know anything. You are permitted to know things only if you are forbidden to disclose them.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 06:51 | 3476520 falak pema
falak pema's picture

THAT  aligns with this : 

Lindsey Graham: Obama Should Hold Dzhokhar Tsarnaev As Enemy Combatant - Business Insider

But apparently not with this : Boston Suspect Arrest: Obama Speaks - Business Insider

 

So what made Potus change his mind?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 06:57 | 3476524 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

A phonecall from his spindoctor, I'd say ...

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:05 | 3476533 deerhunter
deerhunter's picture

"my boys were angels",  a quote heard year upon year here in the gang infested city of Chicago.  Quotes most often heard from mothers,  neve fathers,  seems odd.  Over there fathers must be important.  Maybe dad didn't give them enough bubble baths when they were young.  Who gives a flying  F'''''   why they did it.  Try him,  hang him in the public square.  I wondered out loud how long it would take before bombs started going off in our malls,  sports arenas and public places.  Know we know.  We have DHS,  TSA and now what?  Do you all feel more secure??  All that firepower,  all that overtime,  all that tactical gear,  military equipment and armament and two pressure cookers with some ball bearings waltz in in backpacks and wreak havoc just like that.  Do away with DHS,  TSA and 30% of all Federal employees across the board and let us take care of our own security.  One question.  Were citizens in Boston subject to arrest if they didn't stay in their houses?  Can someone define for me where police departments and or mayors have the power to command me to stay inside my residence?  Just wondering.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:16 | 3476542 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

I can explain to you where they have the power: At the point of a gun.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:29 | 3476559 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

So he can hire OJ's team and get off on a technicality thanks to the FBI's stupidity.  They should have just followed the rules.  This exception can be argued in court.  They need to follow the GD rules and take off the jackboots.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 08:40 | 3476631 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

The laws are for the innocent you fuck. 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:36 | 3476568 lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

The US has descended into a barbaric state.   Every day I read about police who break the law using undue force on citizens, who are little better than the criminals they purport to be saving the public from.  They are rarely punished and are now militarized with all kinds of weaponry.

Is there real evidence of a legitimate struggle with police in this case?  One event I read about said that the kid attended a party on Wed night and was actually arrested with 3 friends last night.   

If there is no concrete picture of the kids going nutso and throwing pressure cooker filled bombs at the police, then in a civilized society, he would be arrested, jailed and tried.

As a society we would get to SEE what the true case is against this person and SEE justice being done.

As long as the police can go around gunning as they please YOU AND I could easily become targets.

Wake up.

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 07:38 | 3476572 lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

The US has descended into a barbaric state.   Every day I read about police who break the law using undue force on citizens, who are little better than the criminals they purport to be saving the public from.  They are rarely punished and are now militarized with all kinds of weaponry.

Is there real evidence of a legitimate struggle with police in this case?  One event I read about said that the kid attended a party on Wed night and was actually arrested with 3 friends last night.   

If there is no concrete picture of the kids going nutso and throwing pressure cooker filled bombs at the police, then in a civilized society, he would be arrested, jailed and tried.

As a society we would get to SEE what the true case is against this person and SEE justice being done.

As long as the police can go around gunning as they please YOU AND I could easily become targets.

Wake up.

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:36 | 3476837 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

+++++1000

I agree totally.

Everything they say is all, at best, circumstantial.

But you cannot reason with a population that is about 75% stupid.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 08:11 | 3476599 pine_marten
pine_marten's picture

Does anyone recall the IRA bombings of London in the 70's?  The brits continued their holiday shopping with a stiff upper lip.  Clearly our over reaction is worse than the problem.  Not to minimize the tragedy this has caused in people's lives but the swat fest is like giving a patient chemo for a wart.  And remember - sadists are drawn to law enforcement like flies to shit.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 08:52 | 3476642 nick howdy
nick howdy's picture

If McCain and his boyfriend Linsey have their way, this kid will have a one way ticket to Gitmo or summarily executed.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:11 | 3476944 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

Ya, it looks like Massachusetts does not have the death penalty so they are probably going to find another way to get him convicted.

The kids life is over, even if he lives. Only "evidence" he did it, is from the terrorist FBI group. Wow, doesn't that make you feel nice and cozy secure?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 09:03 | 3476653 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

We live in bizarro world now.

It will only get much worse.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 09:33 | 3476674 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

"...i do agree there could be sleeper cells involved. the fact that this kid and his brother had been watched for years by the FBI and they still got away with it...and then had a shootout...and then were still on the run for a while... is not good news."

um...seems like FBI is the sleeper... cell or ? Can anyone explain what FBI's job?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:32 | 3476817 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

The FBI is one of the many Terrorist Groups in the USA. They have perpetrated Terror on the public for decades. The first WTC attack back in the 90s later turned out to be directed by FBI.

The only way to stop the terrorism taking place in the USA and overseas (by US terror organizations), is to expose them and stop them. It takes a lot of energy to be working to bring the truth since the USA is loaded full of idiots. I'm sorry. I used to defend people, but this was last straw for me.

The main reason they keep getting away with this is because of the stupid American public.

The Gov't terrorists are good at what they do. They reach out to these kids and provide a "support system" some of them don't have. THEY USE PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS.

 

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:50 | 3476866 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

"The first WTC attack back in the 90s later turned out to be directed by FBI."

 

Omar Abdel Raghman, aka "the blind sheik", did not work for the FBI.

 

He would have never passed their vision requirements.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:09 | 3476934 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

If you are Pro-Mainstream-Media, you may be comfortable watching this quicky video from CBS on the subject which suggests the FBI involvement, but there are plenty more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UUnykZ4pun8#!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 14:03 | 3477461 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Thanks, but no thanks.

I'm not a fan of the MSM, but I believe that SOB did inspire the 1st wtc attack, the one with the truck bomb.

I live in Central Pennsylvania, and I knew hunters who reported arab looking people running through the woods shooting at trees.

The terrorists had a training camp in Perry County.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 18:54 | 3478440 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

But they knew about it and did nothing. Your taxes are paying for this.

This stuff will continue until the American people refuse to fund their government's terrorism overseas as well as groups like the FBI.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 09:56 | 3476713 Vooter
Vooter's picture

But the guy is in custody and his brother's dead, so what's the public safety concern about reading him his Miranda rights?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:22 | 3476785 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

This was the last straw for me. Watching people cheering this on, knowing this kid will not even get to speak to a lawyer before being interrogated if he is able to in his condition or when he is able to if he lives.

Just like I had suspected during the 'who-dunnit' phase when Americans were vehemently saying it was a Muslim or a Right-Wing Patriot, THE FBI HAD BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THESE KIDS for at least 3 years!!

Also, in another FBI "case" in February of 2013, the FBI buddied up with Mathew Aaron Llaneza and directed him towards jihad, setting him up with weapons and teaching him how to make a bomb (which they apparently did in a Van of a Mall area)....

....You can read all about the FBI and Llaneza, as well as many other similar FBI 'cases", from the FBI.gov website. Just put in Mathew Aaron Llaneza in the search box.

Many to most Americans have already convicted these two kids of the Boston bombs. The Media has already stopped talking about the bomb sniffing dogs, or the Terror Drill that was going on in Boston by law enforcement.

They may have done it. BUT....you are considered innocent until proven guilty and EVERYONE should be given their rights while locked up including an attorney....OTHERWISE, this is not a free nation.

And if the FBI were involved, which initial evidence (slowly being dissolved) shows, this would then implicate OBAMA administration. WHO CAN BELIEVE ANYTHING the FBI, Media, and Obama Administration tells them? These are the sleaziest of people, with no morals or integrity whatsover. Obama, like Bush, is the ultimate Terrorist and has the biggest arsenal in the world at his finger tips.

I got called a Conspiracy Theorist at work yesterday, while my idiot co-workers were talking about killing all these people. Because I mentioned the FBI and its well-known tactic of recruiting young vulnerable men of Muslim faith to perform a fake terror attack and then arrest them, I was called a Conspiracy Theorist....EVEN THOUGH what I said about the FBI is FACT.

I know there are some good U.S. Americans who see thru all this bull shit, but there just is NOT enough of us. Americans are so screwed up they don't know their shit hole from their mouth. On one hand they talk about the "commies" who are taking over the government, and on the other they will protect that government at all cost! It must be tough living in Cognizant Dissonance.

I feel emmence heartache for the victims of this crime, but if I were one of those victims I would be looking at the government's role in it.

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:35 | 3476830 exgop
exgop's picture

Well said

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 14:07 | 3477393 Trampy
Trampy's picture

While i share your frustration 100%, it seems that the majority of the zombie sheeple have rightly concluded their life is easier if they don't think about any of these things.

The herd tends to protect itself from Dangerous Ideas by shunning and ostracizing anyone who threatens their Peace of Mind.

It was the evening of 9/11/2001 when the biggest criminal conspiracy in history came to light that G.W. Bush converted "conspiracy researcher" into an epithet by warning the zombie sheeple against listening to "outrageous conspiracy theories." 

Many of us who understand that the U.S. is now a Fascist tyrrany are now completely shunned by family and former friends probably because they, like everyone!, prefer to be with others of like mind.

That is why ZH is such a very important place, which we all should be grateful for and do our best to keep a place for civil discourse.

I'm relatively new here and look forward to the day that i can use the private chat feature to talk to people like you who are having a hard time with the Cognitive Dissonance and associated shunning. 

There are many people (here!) who haven't been Stockholm'd into supporting our own oppression.

Very importantly, this place seems evidence-based, with little or nothing of the common stuff about flouridation, chemtrails, etc. etc.

And finally, the proprietor and many members are interested in trading markets, which is my present avocation after a career in science and engineering. 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:23 | 3476789 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

We have the NDAA, why we need even talk about Miranda?

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:27 | 3476798 rejected
rejected's picture

We are now to the point where a police declared 'suspect' is considered guilty, no miranda or other legal protections required? We will woe these days of enlightenment...All Aboard!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 10:53 | 3476877 NRGTDR
NRGTDR's picture

"Needless to say, Tsarnaev is probably the single most hated figure in America now. As a result, as Bazelon noted, not many people will care what is done to him, just like few people care what happens to the accused terrorists at Guantanamo, or Bagram, or in Yemen and Pakistan. But that's always how rights are abridged: by targeting the most marginalized group or most hated individual in the first instance, based on the expectation that nobody will object because of how marginalized or hated they are. Once those rights violations are acquiesced to in the first instance, then they become institutionalized forever, and there is no basis for objecting once they are applied to others, as they inevitably will be (in the case of the War on Terror powers: as they already are being applied to others).........Leave aside the fact that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been convicted of nothing and is thus entitled to a presumption of innocence. The reason to care what happens to him is because how he is treated creates precedent for what the US government is empowered to do, including to US citizens on US soil. When you cheer for the erosion of his rights, you're cheering for the erosion of your own."


What rights should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev get and why does it matter?

The Obama DOJ says it intends to question the Boston bombing suspect "extensively" without first Mirandizing him

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/20/boston-marathon-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-mirnada-rights

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:09 | 3476935 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"When you cheer for the erosion of his rights, you're cheering for the erosion of your own."

Which, unfortunately, is exactly what they want...

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:22 | 3476971 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

+1000

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:01 | 3476900 Vooter
Vooter's picture

The funniest fucking part of this whole thing is the idea that because the cops have decided not to read him his rights, the guy's suddenly going to tell them everything he knows. What if you don't read him his Miranda rights, and he still doesn't tell you where the "other bombs" (LOL..) are located? How's that helping public safety? "No Miranda rights for you--now you'll HAVE to tell us everything!" Fucking morons--it's hilarious watching this country go down the shitter...

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:26 | 3476981 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

If he lives I'm sure the interrogators will terrorize him and torture him until he agrees that he did everything they say. They might even get him to agree that they had help.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:03 | 3476902 Carl LaFong
Carl LaFong's picture

 

TIME TO WAKE-UP --- The Tsarnaev brothers were double agents who decoyed US into terror trap http://www.debka.com/article/22914/The-Tsarnaev-brothers-were-double-age...

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 12:16 | 3477124 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Long on speculation...

Nonexistent proof.

Maybe the alledged bombers were angry about no gay Boy Scout leaders.

I have equal 'proof'.

None.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 11:41 | 3477029 Paracelsus
Paracelsus's picture

   This was supposed to be a quirky finance blog,that's why I come here.

  Tyler,I can read all this crap on the other blogs,it is being well covered.

  This is fight club,on a long enough timeline your survival rate......

  The only thing I am interested in is the look on peoples faces when they get the police overtime bill for this.

  Remember when the cops and firefighters at the WTC site went to fisticuffs because the City accountants were shitting themselves over the costs involved. Go ahead and down-arrow me but this can't be outsourced as in Iraq (or can it?). Next step drones and collecting all those nasty firearms out there. Give them bread and circuses.

 A Question: why can't they deploy all that manpower to get Corzine and those Wall Street douchebags?

 Nice shiny armored vehicles they have there.  

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 12:21 | 3477146 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Too hard to prove criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt...

Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 12:32 | 3477180 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

The FBI has the following Youtube video displayed on the front page of their website.

This is the bullshit they are basing their "case" on. It shows these young guys walking thru casually with backpacks over one shoulder. There were tons of people there that had backpacks on. In fact some of the FBI operatives (the guys with tan pants and black tops) had on big backpacks that looked stuffed.

THIS VIDEO DOES NOT SHOW ANY EVIDENCE OF FOUL PLAY ON THE PART OF THESE TWO BROTHERS (The FBI really thinks we are all idiots...that's why they keep doing this):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M80DXI932OE&feature=player_embedded

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 13:30 | 3477355 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

That's what a jury is for.  Provided the proper procedures are followed, there need not be evidence to convict in order to arrest.  That's what bail is for.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 12:46 | 3477219 Nehweh Gahnin
Nehweh Gahnin's picture

Regardless of any legal exceptions, one still doesn't have to talk.

Kid could have told them he'd had a boating accident...

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 12:57 | 3477251 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Government Solution to finding a 19-year old kid who ran away from a "shoot-out" - flood the area with thousands of heavily armed robot-looking goons, bring in the tanks, helicopters, National Guard, sheriffs, local police, FBI, ATF, close down the city, close down the air space, bring in more vehicles so they all get in each other's way, have helicopters criss-crossing the skies, post snipers every 5 feet, warn residents to stay indoors, evacuate residents [get the hell out of your house - "where am I supposed to go"] and constantly tell the citizens to be afraid, be very afraid....

Old School Approach: Goddamn it, somebody call Smitty and tell him to bring his bloodhound....

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 13:23 | 3477324 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

I liked your conclusions the best. It boils down to that in my mind at this point (That may change) and it is worthy of more details to hear on the legal side.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 13:28 | 3477346 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

The failure to mirandize is a mistake.  Like any other arrestee, he should be given the full panoply of Consitutional protections.  

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 13:29 | 3477348 Cheeseus Sonofdog
Cheeseus Sonofdog's picture

For the conspiracy theorists: Dzhokhar was a volunteer for "Model United Nations".

 

From Wkipedia: Model United Nations (also Model UN or MUN) is an academic simulation of the United Nations that aims to educate participants about current events, topics in international relations, diplomacy and the United Nations agenda.

The participants role-play as diplomats representing a country or NGO in a simulated session of a committee of the United Nations, such as the Security Council or the General Assembly. Participants research a country, take on roles as diplomats, investigate international issues, debate, deliberate, consult, and then develop solutions to world problems. More recently, simulation of other deliberative bodies, such as the United Nations Security Council, has been included in Model United Nations, even if they are completely unrelated to the UN or international affairs as a whole. In general, the participants that the executive panel considers to be most contributing are given awards, such as 'Best Delegate award'.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 14:05 | 3477469 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

Has anyone read the "public exception" stuff?

Basically anything this kid blurts out before he is read his rights is inadmissible in court.

Also in EVERY other case of "public safety exception" the authorities had physically witnessed the actual existence of a physical device.

In this case it is a presumption that such a device exists.

It's a bit strange that the authorities have decided to bend the law in this way. I think it's entirely unnecessary too. Just follow due process and keep everything water tight.

Look at how Norway handled Breivik (who bombed and shot 77 people). They just stuck to their existing system and guess what? It coped.

Why make legal exceptions for any crime? It's bullshit and weakens all of society, the law is supposed to be equal no matter how aggressively some people test it the authorities should never bend it to their will.

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 00:22 | 3479408 Judge Crater
Judge Crater's picture

From Wkipedia article on Judge Sol Wachtler: "Wachtler was arrested in November 1992, on charges including extortion, racketeering, and blackmail. He eventually pleaded guilty to harassing Silverman by threatening to kidnap her daughter. He resigned as a judge and from the bar. He served a 15-month sentence, first at the medium-security Federal Correctional Institution in Butner, N.C., and later at the Federal Medical Center in Rochester, Minn., after he had been stabbed in the shoulder while dozing in his cell."  What a judge to use in support of the "public safety" exception. 

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