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10 Signs The Paper Gold Crash Unleashed An Unprecedented Demand For Physical Gold And Silver
Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,
The crash of the price of paper gold on Monday has unleashed an unprecedented global frenzy to buy physical gold and silver. All over the planet, people are recognizing that this is a unique opportunity to be able to acquire large amounts of gold and silver at a bargain price. So precious metals dealers now find themselves being overwhelmed with orders in the United States, in Canada, in Europe and over in Asia.
Will this massive run on physical gold and silver soon lead to widespread shortages of those metals? Instead of frightening people away from gold and silver, the takedown of paper gold seems to have had just the opposite effect. People just can't seem to get enough physical gold and silver right now. Those that wish that they had gotten into gold when it was less than $1400 an ounce are able to do so now, and it is absolutely insane that silver is sitting at about $23 an ounce. If the big banks continue to play games with the price of gold, we are going to see existing supplies of physical gold and silver dry up very quickly.
And once reports of physical shortages of gold and silver become widespread, it is going to absolutely rock the financial world. But this is what happens when you manipulate free markets - it often has unintended consequences far beyond anything that you ever imagined.
The following are 10 signs that the takedown of paper gold has unleashed an unprecedented global run on physical gold and silver...
#1 According to Zero Hedge, the U.S. Mint set a new all-time record for the number of gold ounces sold on Wednesday...
According to today's data from the US Mint, a record 63,500 ounces, or a whopping 2 tons, of gold were reported sold on April 17th alone, bringing the total sales for the month to a whopping 147,000 ounces or more than the previous two months combined with just half of the month gone.
#2 Precious metals dealers all over the United States are having a really hard time keeping up with demand right now. According to Chris Martenson, many are warning customers to expect waiting times of five to six weeks at this point...
In the U.S., all of the dealers I talk to are reporting huge demand and brisk buying. Silver in any form is quite hard to come by unless you want to pay premiums of 20%+ per ounce above spot price. Delivery times are 5 to 6 weeks out now – that's an unusual situation. If this recent slam was designed to scare people away from gold, it did not have that desired outcome; in fact, just the opposite.
#3 Individual dealers all over the country are confirming that we are seeing a voracious appetite for precious metals at the moment. For example, the following is what a spokesperson for JM Bullion had to say...
We still have certain things in stock, like 10 oz bars, while others, like Silver Eagles, are a bit of revolving inventory.
The shipments are going out as soon as inventory comes in.
Our main challenge right now is actually getting the silver into the boxes and shipped out – we have been experiencing astounding volume.
This appears to be a widespread phenomenon. Just check out what other dealers are reporting...
“There has been a marked increase in demand since the plunge,” said Mark O’Byrne, executive director at Dublin-based investment and bullion specialist GoldCore, referring to the drop in gold prices seen Friday and Monday. Gold futures lost more than $200 an ounce, or over 13%, on those two days. They were at $1,392 an ounce, moving higher ahead of the close on Thursday.
GoldCore has seen more buying than selling on Wednesday and Thursday, with buy orders “lumpier and from high net worth clients, and with most of the selling in small orders of less than 50 ounces, said O’Byrne.
On Wednesday, David Beahm, executive vice president at Blanchard & Co., said his precious-metals investment firm has seen “2008-like demand” for gold since Monday.
#4 Large international banks are also experiencing tremendous demand for physical gold and silver by customers right now. The following is what Keith Barron told King World News about what he is hearing...
At the Bank of Nova Scotia in Toronto the gold window has been absolutely swamped. I have confirmed there were people lined up in droves recently for multiple-hours at a time to buy gold and silver bars and coins....
I then confirmed with UBS today in Zurich, Switzerland, that they are experiencing exactly the same thing. They told me people are waiting in long lines for bullion related bars and coins. The physical market is incredibly tight, and there is a huge buying opportunity right here.
The damage in gold will not be long-term because physical supply is already drying up. Asian countries have been aggressively buying gold. This really is an unprecedented opportunity for investors. This takedown in the metals has created incredible demand for both gold and silver, and anyone who wants to unload dollars or euros and put them into gold because they don’t trust the currency, now is the time to do it.
#5 The demand for physical gold and silver is heating up over in Europe as well. For example, the following is from an emergency message posted on the website of a precious metals dealer in the UK...
Due to the unprecedented demand triggered by the recent fall in the Gold Price we are currently not able to guarantee Next Day Delivery of orders.
We anticipate that all orders will be delivered within 7 days of receipt by us.
Whilst we appreciate that these delays are frustrating for our customers we would like to stress that all accepted orders are guaranteed at the order price and will be dispatched as soon as possible.
It is necessary for all of our staff to be utilised in fulfilling orders and we ask for your cooperation by not calling us to query delivery times. If you do need to contact us, please do so by e-mail and we will endeavour to respond within 48hrs.
#6 On the other side of the globe, demand for precious metals is skyrocketing as well. According to Bloomberg, people are "running through the gate" to get gold in Australia...
Gold sales from Australia’s Perth Mint, which refines nearly all of the nation’s bullion, surged after prices plunged, adding to signs that the metal’s slump to a two-year low is spurring increased demand.
“The volume of business that we’re putting through is way in excess of double what we did last week,” Treasurer Nigel Moffatt said by phone, without giving precise figures.
“There’s been people running through the gate.”
#7 Reuters is reporting that customers are waiting for up to three hours to buy gold in Japan...
A week ago, as the yen-denominated price neared a new peak, jewelry stores and gold merchants across Japan saw long lines of mostly older Japanese looking to cash in on unwanted jewelry and other items that they had held for years.
But on Tuesday, buyers outnumbered sellers by a wide margin. At Ginza Tanaka, the headquarters shop of Tanaka Holdings, gold buyers waited for as long as three hours for a chance to complete a transaction.
#8 According to a Chinese article quoted by the Blaze, there is a mad rush to buy gold in China right now...
People have to rush to buy gold … gold bullion out of stock yesterday, investors yesterday to spend as much as 600 million yuan to buy 20 kilograms of gold bars
The mad pursuit gold insufficiency is not just a game for the rich. Yesterday, the Yangcheng Evening News reporter learned from the East flowers to Bay store, many growers, pork traffickers, fishmonger recently put down his job went straight to the mall to buy gold.
#9 According to Reuters, dealers in Singapore are having significant trouble finding enough of a supply to keep up with the intense demand for gold that has erupted this week...
"People are actually buying everything, gold bars, gold coins. People are rushing to get a hand on it. We have a problem meeting the demand because we are unable to get new supply," said Brian Lan, managing director of GoldSilver Central Pte Ltd in Singapore.
#10 Bloomberg is reporting that over in India people are "flocking to stores" to purchase gold jewelry and coins...
Gold buyers in India, the world’s biggest consumer, are flocking to stores to buy jewelry and coins, betting a selloff that plunged bullion to a two-year low may be overdone.
“My daughter is just six months old, but I think it is never too early to buy gold,” said Sharmila Shirodkar, a 28- year-old housewife, while displaying a new pair of earrings she bought from a store in Mumbai’s Zaveri Bazaar. “I had been asking my husband every day if prices will go down more. I couldn’t wait anymore.”
If the big banks were trying to scare people away from gold and silver by crashing paper prices for those metals then they have utterly failed.
Instead of being frightened away, the global appetite for physical gold and silver is now more voracious than ever.
If the prices for gold and silver stay this low, we are eventually going to start seeing some very serious shortages in the marketplace.
And once reports of shortages of the actual physical metals become widely circulated, it will cause an "adjustment" in the marketplace that will shock everyone.
So hold on to your hats. We are entering a period of time when there will be unprecedented volatility for the prices of precious metals. It will be quite a roller coaster ride, but if you can handle the ups and downs it will be worth it in the end.
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But what if we don't have any gold to confiscate? "Sure, officer, come on in and search...no gold here. See, I told you! Have a great day!"
In the gold bull I remember 3 times its looked like this with healthy physical demand at relatively low prices
april 2004, october 2006, sept 2008
It has been more of a pure speculation game since 2008 but April 2013 seems to have triggered the physical buying that precipitated massive increases those three times. The regular 500 tons per year net dumping on the market by central banks has stopped so we may see a more exciting bounce up once the physical offtake gets communicated by market forces to the paper markets with no apparent mechanism to slow it down. Hang on tight and when you detect the bottom buy like a drunken sailor as once it starts rising there will be a drought of corrections for a while...
It's like the forward pass having been invented in pro football and coach bernanke still has his team runnin' the flying wedge. Paper suppression worked for 30 years. Now it's whippin' a dead horse.
What I've learned from this thread...
A strong bias either for or against PMs is unbalanced. No one truly understands what is going on with our government or economy, and definitely not on a global level. The dynamics are very different today due to technology and "new" ideas and systems, so historical data may not exactly apply. Who knows what actions and interventions could be coming and what the consequences will be. No one has a crystal ball. Best to have the best of all worlds... PMs, FRNs, land and productive assets as your best chance of preserving your wealth. One thing I am certain about is that water, food, shelter, clothes, medical attention and/or the things needed to create them all have the most value of anything.
You forgot bitches and guns. For sure those are gonna be worth something, always.
The exact Buffett quotes...
“[Gold] gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
“Gold is a way of going long on fear, and it has been a pretty good way of going long on fear from time to time. But you really have to hope people become more afraid in a year or two years than they are now. And if they become more afraid you make money, if they become less afraid you lose money, but the gold itself doesn’t produce anything."
“I will say this about gold. If you took all the gold in the world, it would roughly make a cube 67 feet on a side…Now for that same cube of gold, it would be worth at today’s market prices about $7 trillion – that’s probably about a third of the value of all the stocks in the United States…For $7 trillion…you could have all the farmland in the United States, you could have about seven Exxon Mobils (NYSE:XOM) and you could have a trillion dollars of walking-around money…And if you offered me the choice of looking at some 67 foot cube of gold and looking at it all day, and you know me touching it and fondling it occasionally…Call me crazy, but I’ll take the farmland and the Exxon Mobils.”
I do not like Warren Buffett but you cannot dispute this logic. Unlike most of you, I am enough the free thinker to be able to dismiss the man but acknowledge the truth of the words.
Add to that all I've written about the human cost of digging out this marginally useful material (rock) and I think I've made my case.
He just fails to realize that gold is money.
"[uninvested money] is a way of going long on fear"
etc.
He completely misses the point. Somehow he thinks USD don't change in value over time, so when you go long USD, you're not betting on fear. However when you go long on Gold, you're betting on fear?
A 67 foot cube of gold is useless, but a thousand tones of paper is somehow very useful. Care to explain this again?
Complete nonsense.
He's thinking of gold as if it were an investment. Of course gold sucks as an investment, it's not supposed to be one! It doesn't create wealth because it has no risk. Just like money ought to be.
NO, You miss the point. Farmland is not fiat. It produces things year in and year out. Exxon is not fiat. It produces something. Gold produces nothing. It adds no value to the human condition. it is inert, non productive. it has side effects and consequences that are never disclosed (except by me here on these pages) It has many risks and is treated just like all other financialized products (paper gold, etfs, options, futures etc) Gold bugs are a cult. The believe like a religion and are impervious to all evidence that goes against their "faith"
Gold is superior money. Farmland is supposed to earn you gold. They don't compete.
And BTW, farmland is a horrible investment unless you are a farmer. It costs you money. I'll tell you right now, that shit is in a BUBBLE. You watch how well your vast tracks of land weather the Obama tax hikes and property grabs euro style that are coming. You are going to get a wealth tax on anything you can't hide, just like they are doing in Europe.
Farmland you own on the wrong side of a balkanized state will get you nothing but grief. Wait till the dusts settle, then buy with gold.
You keep missing the point. it's not about farmland being a good or bad investment, it's about productive assets vs. non productive assets...are you all illiterate ?
Farmland is not a "productive" asset unless you are farming it. It costs you money to keep it. You are the one missing the point. It is a cost.
And you keep comparing money to investments. Money and investments are two different things. You may not like gold because of whatever reason. But it is still money. It doesn't matter how many people you get to deny it is money. I can still trade it for goods and services. I can get just as many people to tell you the USD is definately not money, but some strange form of magical Alf Pogs. Your personal belief system is something you need to abandon in favor of reality.
Farmland will be an amazing investment once you get desperate tenant farmers and/or serfs working the land for you.
"Duke of Devonshire evicts farmer whose family have worked on his estate since 1830 - because the rent was ONE DAY late"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2297210/Duke-Devonshire-evicts-farmer-family-worked-estate-1830--rent-day-late.html
Please show us the law that says that all assets must be "productive" assets...we're waiting...
What does Wells Fargo Produce?
No, there's a definite whoooosh there. Auric has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Gold isn't a good investment... Primarily because it's not an investment at all. You don't invest in gold in the same way you don't invest in dollars. You save gold, in the same way you save dollars.
The nice thing about gold with respect to dollars is it is impervious to inflation and deflation. It doesn't change (very much), while dollars do change substantially.
I buy gold and silver PRECISELY because people like you and Warren Buffett don't like it. What don't you get?
What does Wells Fargo Produce?
Gold produces nothing. It adds no value to the human condition. it is inert, non productive.
Federal reserve notes produce nothing. They add no value to the human condition. They are inert, non productive.
Just like gold. But unlike gold, they lose value over time.
What are the advantages of FRNs when compared to gold, again?
The only advantage I can think of: they're more liquid in a small part of the planet (but less liquid everywhere else).
Gold is not money. It was money once but it is not money now. Every one of you thinks of it in terms of dollars the fiat you curse! How fucked up is that? If it were money you would be exchanging it for a pair of shoes not converting it to dollars. You would quote its value in numbers of shoes per ounce.
More Buffett quotes..
The major asset in this category is gold, currently a huge favorite of investors who fear almost all other assets, especially paper money (of whose value, as noted, they are right to be fearful). Gold, however, has two significant shortcomings, being neither of much use nor procreative. True, gold has some industrial and decorative utility, but the demand for these purposes is both limited and incapable of soaking up new production. Meanwhile, if you own one ounce of gold for an eternity, you will still own one ounce at its end.”
“What motivates most gold purchasers is their belief that the ranks of the fearful will grow. During the past decade that belief has proved correct. Beyond that, the rising price has on its own generated additional buying enthusiasm, attracting purchasers who see the rise as validating an investment thesis. As 'bandwagon' investors join any party, they create their own truth — for a while."
“I have no views as to where it will be, but the one thing I can tell you is it won’t do anything between now and then except look at you. Whereas, you know, Coca-Cola (NYSE:KO) will be making money, and I think Wells Fargo (NYSE:WFC) will be making a lot of money and there will be a lot — and it’s a lot — it’s a lot better to have a goose that keeps laying eggs than a goose that just sits there and eats insurance and storage and a few things like that."
"Every one of you thinks of it in terms of dollars the fiat you curse! How fucked up is that?"
I don't think of it in terms of dollars--I think of it in terms of ounces. Which is a concept that you're obviously having trouble understanding. Why is that?
Just a handful of Bloombergs can ruin Coca Cola.
Or WFC.
On the other hand they can kiss my ass when it comes to gold.
Gold is not money. It was money once but it is not money now.
Then why is it bought w/ government made paper, called money, and can be sold back for that same so called MONEY?.Just because someone chooses to rename,or make something else money, doesn't stop 5000 yrs of history.Gold and silver ARE money, and will always be money.
I disagree with you and Warren Buffett's own deceased father, and former Nebraska Congressman Howard Buffett disagrees too.
I urge you to read his entire essay on the subject, titled "Human Freedom Rests on Gold Redeemable Money," because even though it's 63 years old, it's as true today as it was when it was originally written in 1948.
It includes such prescient quotes as:
"...paper money, gives the individual who owns it no independence, because it has no redemptive value. Under such conditions the individual citizen is deprived of freedom of movement. He is prevented from laying away purchasing power for the future. He becomes dependent upon the goodwill of the politicians for his daily bread. Unless he lives on land that will sustain him, freedom for him does not exist."
And he closes his essay with this grim warning,
"...unless you are willing to surrender your children and your country to galloping inflation, war and slavery, then this cause demands your support. For if human liberty is to survive in America, we must win the battle to restore honest money. There is no more important challenge facing us than this issue - the restoration of your freedom to secure gold in exchange for the fruits of your labors."
"I do not like Warren Buffett but you cannot dispute this logic."
What if I don't WANT to own all the land in the United States and seven Exxon Mobils?
Digging up the gold is immoral but Exxon is O.K. in your book?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......HAHHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Why anyone would want to accumulate bricks of a mostly useless metal has always been beyond me. Gold is the ultimate centuries-old Ponzi scheme.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bba66092-a80f-11e2-8e5d-00144feabdc0.html
Gold’s fall could have much further to go
By David Schwartz
Long-term support lies well beneath current levels, says David Schwartz
In the aftermath of the panic selling, gold investors now wonder if the correction has run its course or if prices will continue to decline.
As always in the world of investing, there are two points of view. Gold bugs, as fans of the precious metal are known, view the sell-off as a temporary setback. They think more price gains are inevitable as paper currencies are stripped of their value by incompetent governments and central banks.
They also speak of gold’s psychological appeal, long-term inflation trends, growing demand from Asian consumers and financial security it provides in times of crisis. Serious Money considers these issues in a bit more detail. I’m going to look at the price history – and prospects.
As just about everyone knows, gold’s been a stellar performer over the past decade. It rose by more than 700 per cent between its low point in 2001 and its 2011 peak in the $1,900/oz region. Most of those gains came after 2008, when terrified investors fled to gold as banks collapsed around their ears.
But prices are no longer behaving as expected in times of trouble. Cyprus is a good recent example. An economic collapse, a blatant raid on savers’ money, plus fears that the crisis could spread to other EU countries should surely have rekindled interest in gold. But it failed to trigger an expected price bounce.
War fears are also believed to boost gold prices. But recent threats by North Korea to start a nuclear war in east Asia also failed to produce any meaningful reaction.
The debasement of fiat currencies is also not having much impact. Japan recently launched a stimulus programme and is striving to cheapen its currency. The Federal Reserve is still buying $85bn worth of bonds each month with newly minted money. None of it is having any impact on the gold price at the moment.
Clearly, something has changed in the way gold reacts to economic and political challenges. Investors’ psychology has changed. They are no longer so fearful, even if they arguably should be.
Gold’s big bull market began in 2002 in response to central bank efforts to reflate a sagging US economy. My view is that this rally began to feed upon itself and shift into bubble territory in the second half of 2009. This was when we began to realise that the world financial system was severely wounded, but not terminally so. But gold prices continued to rise, doubling again over the next two years.
High quality global journalism requires investment.
The US is often the first to be cited. Its debt is believed to be unsustainable and the Federal Reserve support programme is making the problem worse. Once other countries start worrying of US debt, the dollar will collapse and gold prices will rise.
Experience teaches me that nothing lasts forever in the world of investing. No one can predict when a bubble will end. But once it does end, prices generally fall steeply.
The carnage on Monday and the previous Friday saw gold crash through some important technical resistance levels, including $1,540 and $1,470. My initial price target now is for gold to return to the $900/oz vicinity. This is where prices stood in mid-2009 when perceptions about the world financial system first began to improve.
If I am right, it could take many weeks or months to reach this level, with short rallies periodically disguising the underlying trend. Recall that the tech bubble took more than two years to completely unravel.
Even more troubling is that prices might drop well below $900/oz.
History repeatedly warns that prices typically return to the vicinity of their long-term support lines in the aftermath of a burst bubble. And past peaks in the gold market have typically been followed by very sharp retrenchments; between January 1975 and September 1976, the dollar price of gold fell by almost 50 per cent, and there was another big fall after the 1980 peak. If you trace the gold price back to the early 1970s, before the “Nixon shock” in 1971, you end up with a support line just below $400.
Stock market historian David Schwartz is an active private investor writing about his own trades
tradersdiary@ft.com
The question is will central banks sell off their gold to the plebes in an all-in bet to convince them we really should have faith in Bernanke-bucks and bonds on the backs of a welfare-state.
They probably will, right before they take it all back at gun point.
Consume or die.
"Clearly, something has changed in the way gold reacts to economic and political challenges."
Yes it is clear that something has changed and that something is active suppression of the price. The FED itself admits that it has to supress the price to maintain confidence in fiat currency. The whole premise of your quote is that we are in a free market. LIBOR, QE, etc. Nothing is free about it at all.
What matters is real assets, not a stash of some metal that a few morons have been deluded into thinking may be a store of value.
It's idiotic and irresponsible of any central bank or goverment to load up on an essentially worthless metal. It makes perfect sense that those who have aggressively been buying up gold at the top of the market are the likes of India and Sri Lanka, i.e. third world backwaters and certainly not quite a hotbed of intellectual creativity or innovative thinking.
Wake up. The reality is that Gold is crashing because there are no more greater suckers left in the game.
You understand that having a screen name like "London Dude Trader" makes you look like a complete asshole, right? And you also understand that many people buy gold and silver simply because people like you exist, right?
LOL
"This is where prices stood in mid-2009 when perceptions about the world financial system first began to improve."
LOL! Began to improve where--in his living room? Too funny...
Well....in fairness to that statement....he did use the word "perception".
LOL
Because of Cyprus, interest in gold was starting to 'kindle' but then the 500 million ounce on Friday (suspected one or two entities) before market close (what a surprise) brought the price of gold down.
Your statement does not hold.
Don't know about all those other places, but this is what's up in Southern California.
Gold still has reasonable availability, here is the silver data:
$1000 Face 90% Silver Coin Pre-1965 (715 oz.)We buy and sell $500 & $250 face 90% bags at the same rate.
$18300.00
Sold Out
$1000 Face 40% Silver Halves 1965-1969 (295 oz.)We also buy and sell $500 face 40% bags at the same rate.
$6500.00
Sold Out
COMEX Bar approximately 1000 oz. 0.999 FineCOMEX and RCM bars vary in size. Buy or sell spot prices are multiplied by that specific weight.
Spot - $1.00
Sold Out
100 oz. Johnson Matthey/Engelhard Bar 0.999 FineSpot - $0.40
Sold Out
100 oz. Academy Bar 0.999 FineSpot - $0.40
Sold Out
100 oz. Royal Canadian Mint (RCM) Bar 0.9999 FineSpot - $0.40
Sold Out
10 oz. Generic Silver Bar (0.999 Fine)Spot - $0.40
Sold Out
1 oz. Generic Silver Round (0.999 Fine)Spot - $0.40
Sold Out
America/Beautiful 5 oz. Sil National Park Sold Out US Silver Eagles 1 oz. Sealed Box of 500 Coins$12475.00
Sold Out
US Silver Eagles 1 oz. Lot of 20 CoinsSpot + $2.00
Sold Out
Canadian Silver Maple Leaf 1 oz. 2013 Box of 500$12475.00
Sold Out
Canadian Silver Maple Leaf 1 oz. Lot of 25 CoinsSpot + $2.00
Sold Out
Canadian Silver Wolf 1 oz. Lot of 25 CoinsSpot + $15.00
Spot + $30.00
Canadian Silver Grizzly 1 oz. Lot of 25 CoinsSpot + $7.00
Spot + $12.00
Canadian Silver Cougar 1 oz. Lot of 25 Coins Spot + $2.00Sold Out
Canadian Silver Moose 1 oz. Lot of 25 Coins Spot + $2.00Sold Out
Canadian Silver Antelope 1 oz. Lot of 25 Coins Spot + $2.00Spot + $4.00
Canadian Silver Bison 1 oz. Lot of 25 Coins Spot + $2.00Spot + $4.00
Austrian Philharmonic 1 oz. Lot of 20 CoinsSpot + $1.75
Spot + $4.00
Australian 2012 Silver Dragon Coin 1 oz$67.00
Australian Kilo Koala (32.15 oz.) - Round/Hard Plastic Holder Spot + $2.50 PCGS MS65 Peace Dollars - Box of 20$2100.00
Sold Out
Yes you're right. IT is still available in America. Americans just don't think like billions of Asians.
I had Japanese engineers follow me around with cameras, then they copied, mass produced and didn't pay me. After that with a little encouragement from Dick Cheney and Bill Gates I shelved the technological discovery that could have save you all. What it comes down to is, fuck you too. I couldn't care less if 'humanity' lives or dies. I only care about my own children. Hilary Kitten and the social engineers saw to it that I did not reproduce, so I have seen to it that you will get along without my most excellent, in fact stunning, servitude. Consider that, Barry. NON SERVIUM
USA! USA! USA!
1st No Ammo Available
2nd No Physical PM's Available
What will be next? No USD? No Food? No Oil/Gas? or How about No Freedom in General?
One thing I think will be in great supply is Chaos in everything and in everyone
The price of gold may appear high to MSM (likely to shift sub 1000) just wait few months !!! When all physical is gone you will see a real run ... It will start showing fracture of system within few months
Precious metal investing is a bit like fishing for marlin.
Make your decision, then strike. Hold when she runs, and buy when she tires and runs back towards you. This is not a sport for the faint of heart, but logic will ultimately prevail. Remember the fiat toilet paper ain't going anywhere we want to be, and in any fight the most determined, win.
Seriously the lower it goes the more I will buy, if I can find anyone to sell.
This is soooo sweet, the manipulation has backfired on them.... I can't smile enough
:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Lot of misinformation about, and undoubtedly some MSM persons come here to help TPTB in the cause of talking down gold.
You have to wonder why the MSM almost to a man is trying their hardest to cast doubt on gold, to talk it down. Quite unusual when a diversity of opinions on any subject would normally be the case. However on gold they are of one voice...and that is of course the voice of the Fed, BIS, LBMA...CFTC.
Strange that you don't get those here trying to talk down gold comment on the stange behaviour of the MSM on this subject.
And it is hardly irrational the buying going on in the west. There is a pick up of new interest (they created a new market, the average citizen with money), but nothing like a frenzied blow off, not even close. And in Asia, well they have been buying gold hand over fist for a while and have a history and culture of using gold as money and protection. That they will load up on it when it suddenly becomes $200 cheaper, in a very uncertain world from the Asian perspective...should not be a surprise.
What this does of course is make SE Asia even stronger buyers on an individual basis, and create an even further shortage of physical.
What happend the other day and maybe again soon was the Fed suddenly dumpring hundreds of tons of paper gold that is only backed 1% physical. You may as well call it fake gold. For the very purpose of trying to make 100% physical gold look as though it has collapsed.
I guess we should be mulitplying the paper gold by 100 to get the genuine physical price of gold, since it is leveraged 100/1 ...that would mean the paper price of gold makes physical gold valued at $130,000 / ounce.
To refer to the Comex price of gold as a market is of course a joke, it is no such thing. It is simply smoke and mirrors, circus tricks and con games, but nothing real. It is a reference point that will increasingly breakdown as it becomes obvious its only function is to have people dump their gold cheap.
The strongs hands wont budge, the moderate hands have been made strong and so forth....trashing gold from hereon by TPTB will gain them very little phyiscial gold.
The West's constant supressing of gold and silver has simply served to make Asia gold and silver rich.
@ Kina:
The fact that the MSM DOES try so hard to talk Gold down, perhaps makes one of the strongest arguments in favor of owning it, in my opinion. Talk about contrarian indicators.
The MSM said: "Tech stocks and Dotcoms are the future" in 2000. They also said "REIT's and other real estate-related vehicles are 'where to be' in 2005". Cramer said "Do NOT sell Lehman".....need I say more?
I'll happily sell some of my holdings, when the time comes that I feel they're fairly valued, according to real world price discovery, not some pie-in-the-sky paper price suppression scheme.
Possibly good indicators that Gold truly has completed its run?
1. When buying Gold is all the MSM talks about. When their shows revolve around interviews with "gold experts" you've never heard of.
2. When "Buy Gold Now" advertising reaches parity with Big Pharma pill advertising.
3. When the price is into 5-6 figures, as measured in BernankeCoin.
4. When Gold mining stocks are the darlings of Wall St.
5. When people are electively going to the dentist, to have their gold fillings replaced, with enamel ones.
LOL! What matters are real assets, not a stash of some metal that a few morons have been deluded into thinking may be a store of value.
It's idiotic and irresponsible of any central bank or goverment to load up on an essentially worthless metal. It makes perfect sense that those who have aggressively been buying up gold at the top of the market are the likes of India and Sri Lanka, i.e. third-world backwaters and certainly not quite a hotbed of intellectual creativity or innovative thinking.
Wake up. The reality is that Gold is crashing because there are no more greater suckers left in the game.
You guys keep obsessing over Ponzi schemes of all sorts but just refuse to acknowledge the centuries-old biggest scam of them all that's just under your nose. Guess who the joke is on.
Your paper money lost over 90% of its value vs gold money in just the past 100 years. Debate over.
PMs are insurance! Insurance against the FED succeeding in destroying the dollar!
which they will......
@ London Dude Trader:
Gold is an asset, in that it is "money without liability". It is highly-fungible, and knows no loyalties according to culture, or national borders. Everybody in the world will pay something for it.
I can hold my Gold in my hand. The best the stock market can do, is send me a piece of paper, saying I own paper, worth "x" amount of paper.
Since you yourself say "What matters are real assets", your post is hypocritical at best, and idiotic at worst.
So yes, the paper Gold price is crashing, since only 1-2% of the "Gold market" is real Gold, while everything else is just paper.
The Gold leasing game is coming to an end, because the realization is soon going to hit the market that nobody who has paper claims on Gold, can actually get their physical, REAL Assets.
Once the last ounce is sold...that time is approaching, and soon.
My "Spidey-senses are tingling so much", that I actually think it's time to get out the popcorn, beer, and hotwings, because the fireworks display is about to start.
"It's idiotic and irresponsible of any central bank or goverment to load up on an essentially worthless metal."
LOL! But that's exactly what they ARE doing...what are you, stupid? If you think it's idiotic and irresponsible, tell them, not us....
The creation of more thin-air USD at more than a trillion a year is a given just to pay the bills.
Fiat will be increasingly diluted....until something brings it all to a halt.
The dilution and or whatever brings about the halt are a given, just the time frame unknown. Both are enough cause to want to include bullion in your portfolio, no matter what stupid games the Fed are playing with the 'price' of gold today.
That wass a deliberately dishonest statment, a lie in fact, and the writer knows he is lying. Why lie?
The reason gold crashed the other day was the central bank dumped 500 tons of (paper) gold in a day. Only a central bank has that sort of money, can absorb that sort of risk and is able to get away with such a blatant manipulation of the market.
Only a total fool would believe somebody dumping 500 tons of gold was trying to get the best price...though some MSM and TPTB shills here will certainly try to make that case.
>>The reason gold crashed the other day was the central bank dumped 500 tons of (paper) gold in a day.
Therin lies the key to is it going up or down. As i understand that was $1 billion short on the market. Assuming it turns out to be a profitable short, thats even more fiat the entity has to send gold downwards. Unless your betting this entity has a liquidity crisis and wont bang the gold market lower in future.
To all the shortage kooks , yes demand has been brought forward due to the drop in prices, catching some dealers by suprise aka. shortage. (Those indians queing up to buy , just decided to buy what they would have brought later in the year now.) But the local large bullion enitities are willing to sell me 1 kg of gold with the regular 7% discount from their usual phyisical premium, for large orders.
Gold is still a good investment. It will take out $2,000.
LOL Bitcoin is more likely to hit $2,000 first.
....and then crash back to 120 three or four times over and the whole time the site where your "wallet" is will get DDoS'd to shit and you may only watch it flutter back and forth.
I meant it ironically. Gold will never hit $2,000, let alone Bitcoin.
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 B.C.) Roman Statesman, Philosopher and Orator
I know those guys .... Obama, Dodd, Frank, Pelosi, Feinstein, Durbin, Biden (no .... he's too dumb to form traitorous intent .... guileless accomplice) .... Clitons, Algore, Jimmy Carter .... the list is long !
Earthquake tsunami...
Water level goes way down...
Then it comes back...
A lot higher. With vigor.
The question is only if and how well TPTB will be able to control the gold and silver markets from hereon. They have always been manipulating it, even Gordon Brown wasted some of the UK's gold for the purpose of the game.
And if and how much the paper and physical markets separate, until the paper has to face reality of its 100/1 leverage.
Analysing the performance of the market when it is heavily manipulated is a little pointless except to say that even with heavy supression gold has been on a decade bull. One can only imagine where gold and silver would be now without the heavy hand of the cartel banks and Fed supressing the market.
Central banks have and will remain strong buyers of gold and even with them buying hundreds of tons....gold has been supressed...does that speak a natural market price for gold? Of course not, it is a corrupted market price of paper gold.
BUT the problem for TPTB is that the economies are stuffed, and require continuous fiat creation/dilution, in increasing volumes. There is no escape from this except the chaos of implosion....and that is another reason to protect yourself.
People dissing gold in these times are the same as telling somebody to not insure their home.
Mauybe the Fed will try the same trick again, dumping gold another $200 ..since nobody will hold them to the laws of the land....but that will simply make more physical disappear from the market and possible create a crisis in confidence in the US economy.
@ Kina:
Quote: "Mauybe the Fed will try the same trick again, dumping gold another $200 ..since nobody will hold them to the laws of the land....but that will simply make more physical disappear from the market and possible create a crisis in confidence in the US economy."
The time is approaching when the Fed does not need to apply "shock therapy" to the gold market, to suppress the price. The gold market will drop the price, on its own.
The people who have the metal, don't want to sell. The people who want the metal, don't want the paper. The people who sell the paper, are having trouble finding the metal.
Welcome to "Gold Shortage World", where paper prices are meaningless, and physical assets are in high demand.
" The gold market will drop the price, on its own.
The people who have the metal, don't want to sell. The people who want the metal, don't want the paper. The people who sell the paper, are having trouble finding the metal."
Uh.......how does that cause the price of gold to drop???
You can buy whatever physical gold you want from Kitco and other suppliers....where is the shortage. You can also buy it for $600 oz from same place in 3 months...
There is no shortage .... the supply of above ground gold increases every day .... but those bottlenecks .... in the retail supply chain .... can be a BITCH, Bitchez ! The same people that claim there is plenty of gold available to lower the price .... are the same ones who say .... there isn't enough gold .... to float a world wide money system !
Well, hey, if that's the case, I'll buy yours for $900/oz right now...oh, wait, you don't have any....
.....but will you accept tulips or bitcoin?
These are the times we've been waiting for !
Fairly dishonest statement steeped in ignorance.
And typical of the MSM and TPTB shills endeavouring the chorus of negativity on bullion as protection from fiat dilution and a terminally broken economy.
All markets have tops dives and recoveries and cycles depending on the performance of economies and the heavy hand of TPTB. As though people will hold a particular class of item regardless of the economic financial environment around them. Strawman much? Dishonest much?
The above statement applies just as much to shares as it does to anything as if people simply buy something and put it in the draw for 20 years.
Today and for the foreseable future we have massive amounts of fiat dilution/printing and broken economies, no hope as yet of a recovery being able to even reduce deficits let alone end them.
But not only the US but Japan, Europe and unsolvable trouble, and China with a mass of problems as well.
I doubt the world has ever been in this same predicament, to the level that it now is.
But of course TPTB are desperate to talk down gold and silver, and no doubt see ZH as a perenial pain in the arse in their telling the truth of the matter.
So I expect shills to come here and continue the effort for them.
[There is no shortage .... the supply of above ground gold increases every day .... but those bottlenecks .... in the retail]
Hmmm with paper gold having 1 ounce for every 100 ounces sold...they better start digging much faster to satisfy the calls on them...
We're on the same page .... whatever gold there is .... is exactly what's needed .... to fund a new world money .... as a matter of fact .... it's always been there .... lurking ! The new world money is .... Grams 'o' Gold .... and fractions and multiples .... thereof .... no government has to nor should do anything .... it's already here .... for the taking !
At the current price, their alleged gold holding will be depleted in one year. People in the last month are moving it out at about 8% a month. So that means they really have about two months at best.
Can some retarded wanker please please please say 'BUT YOU CAN'T EAT GOLD'
Please can some fucking person who hangs on every word of Kiernan and Cramer please trot out that tried and true statement...
SO I can tell you to FUCK OFF AND EAT DOG FOOD
@ Notarocketscientist:
Just since you asked!
"But You Can't Eat Gold".
Don't forget about this one:
"Gold doesn't pay a dividend".
Disclosure: Short on MSM Bullshit, Long on Physical Gold & Boating Accidents
If someone offered me all the gold I could eat, people would stop saying that.
Arizona and Utah accept physical gold and silver as legal tender now. Technically you can eat by owning gold. More states are following suit.
How is it a paper gold crash, when the price of the actual metal has dropped right along with it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Canadian-Mint-Gold-Bar-PERTH-MINT-AND-OTHE...
$1650......most are right around 1550. They are selling well too.
This week I've been at a few different coin shops. They have no metal at all.
I didn't ask them for the price. Which is the price of something that isn't available for sale?
One thing I fail to understand is that why most analysts are recommending the purchase of Gold as a safe investment? The problem today is that the price of Gold is not derived by it's physical demand or supply but more by the speculative positions standing long or short on the commodity exchange like any other traded commodity, stock or currency.
The basic mechanism of price discovery (based on demand and supply for actual use) of anything traded on an exchange has been terminally infected by speculators having access to unlimited funds and super fast computers for trading leading to volatile price swings. This has been made worse by the launch of ETFs for anything and everything under the sun by the financial community.
The price of everything including Gold is likely to suffer when the speculators unwind their positions due to some event that they have not anticipated or foreseen.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article35345.html
www.letstalkmoney2012.in
Things are being 'confused'.
From what I've known and seen recently..., there is plenty of gold above ground at this point. No shortages of gold except in the supply line. People are buying it up fast (especially in places with high inflation). This is supported by the fact that premiums have not risen (at least as of yet). But the price is low enough to maintain a lot of forward buying. Not just the retail, but as pointed out by McGuire, for the 90 days before this take down, a LOT of gold was leaving the market (suspected to be soverigns taking delivery). But just because there is not a shortage of gold does not mean the price won't rebound. The reason(s) for the gold price take down are suspect (meaning nefarious).
However...with silver this may be an entirely different story. Premiums have shot up. There is more questions regarding above ground silver than answers that are factual.
Silver gets dragged along with gold. Gold got taken down, silver went with it. It gave certain...(ahem)...'entities' a chance to exit their shorts. But it would appear a great strain has been put on the silver supply that we are not seeing in the gold supply.
If Pimpco sells all it holding in bonds then full in 'phys golds', this ponzi will end in just few days. Mr. Gross now the person of interest.
What I suspect is a valid explanation would be someone with a large paper gold position wanting to rotate into physical bullion.
You would do that by selling paper gold at whatever price you could get while making back to back purchases of physical metal. All it costs you would be the premiums/fees, and if you can get the physical in your own vault you are now fireproof.
What will have surprised the actors is the alacrity with which the muppets (aka the people of the world) took this as a buying opportunity as has now been chronicled around the world.
Games theory - the prisoners dilemma - suggests that the first person who acts gets the best outcome.
If someone tries this again before the price recovers, even more muppets, including me, will come out of the woodwork to buy and the resullting strain on the physical market is going to disconnect the physical from the notional gold market. The paper is worthless if you can't get good delivery, and nobody is going to take the other side of a short either when it is obvious that physical cannot be had..
Furthermore, US gold reserves are approximately 258 million troy ounces (8000 tonnes). 200 million muppets each buying an ounce and squirreling it away is not an impossbility.
For those that say "you can't eat gold", you are missing the point. Ever since Eve, women have craved gold jewellery. If you remember that you can have all the food and pussy you want.
Don't listen to the Gold shrills. They are always bullish. Sprott. Sinclair, Hathaway, Clemente, Keiser, Turk. They have a vested interest in you buying gold from them or are paid shrills. They are bullish no matter what. It's always a once in a lifetime opportunity to buy for them.
They look like some kind of soothsayers when the market is on a steady rise. See they said it would go up and gosh it did!
They have milked this bull market for all it's worth. If the Gold market crashes well you won't be hearing from them again.
Come to think of it who the fuck is Tyler Durden
"XXXXX"
TROLL ALARM!!!... TROLL ALARM!!!... TROLL ALARM!!!...
Money is a medium of exchange. Gold is not money. It is a store of wealth. Insurance. It was money when you could pull a gold coin out of your pouch and exchange it for some other commodity or need. Governments are in control now (as monarchs were in the past) and they lay down the rules. Whether we like it or not, whether it is logical or not... legal tender in the USA is fiat dollars. You can't pay your taxes with gold, you can't pay the dentist, the grocer, the car mechanic, the home seller, etc. etc. with gold. Thus, it is NOT money.
1) store of value
2) unit of account
3) medium of exchange
Gold can be all of these things that make a good money. Medium of exchange is just one of the qualities of money. Gold is money. It may have been "demonetized" but it still may function as money. To say it's not money... well it depends what you mean. It's not government money sure. If the government decides what you do and dont trade with then you are a slave. If you are a slave it doesn't follow that everyone else is, nor does it follow that gold is not money just because the government decided.
That is just plumb wrong. Your fixed ideas and bias on gold prevents you from reading and duplicating what I wrote earlier. The government tells you what currency is, you don't decide upon it. Face the facts. You can't pay your taxes with it so it is NOT money... NOT legal tender... NOT what the rule of law states. You have to buy it with FRNs and convert it into FRNs when you want to buy something (and if you convert it back into FRNs using certain channels you will also have to pay a meaty tax on it). You are not outside of the government. Go ahead... just do what you want and where will you wind up? In jail. Face the facts man. Knock off the theoretical gold bug nonsense and face what is happening in the real world. Go down to your local grocery store and give the clerk two silver pre-1964 quarters for your groceries. Get your cavity filled from your dentist and then try and pay him for your filled cavity with a 1/4 oz of gold. NOT gonna happen. Gold is a store of value, a possible hedge against a crisis, a non-performing asset, etc. but it is not money in the modern world that we live in. It may someday be part of the commodities that back a paper currency but that would still mean it is not money. It's collateral and value backing up a currency that is a medium of exchange. Gold is not a medium of exchange. USDs are the medium of exchange. What is so hard to understand about this?
A Dentist? Know one who has been practicing since the 1950s, owns horses and a ranch.
Getting him to accept gold coins for dental work would be totally acceptable, of that I have little doubt, in fact he may very well own quite a bit? In those days, dentists probably followed the gold market more closely than the average bear, and were also afforded some form of exemption from owning AU from the 1930s thru 1975.
Anything can be used for money - some have more or less utility and convertibility. A stack of engine blocks - steel - has a scrap value. What would $50,000 worth represent, a big mess and leaky fluids everywhere. The grocer doesn't take small block chevy engines, T-Bills, Stock certificates or corporate paper, either. What people are really getting at is the unit of account. It wouldn't have to be gold, (Eisenhower reportedly asked whether putonium could be used as a standard or peg?) but one of the attributes of money, is durability. Of this, gold really has no equal. It is scarce, and difficult to counterfeit. Compact and portable - when some says, "it's heavy" - so to preclude one from ownership as this is a Bad Thing, consider most people could carry around their net worth in their front pockets, not that anyone would notice!
A standard unit of account would make business and industry, government and retirement planning accurate and credible. At some point the numbers become too large for most to fathom, on a practicle level.
"Instead of being frightened away, the global appetite for physical gold and silver is now more voracious than ever."
I submit that the appetite has always been what it is, but the availability (price) makes it much easier to consume (purchase).
The big PM bashers screwed up big time and got their timing wrong. They left the citizens of this world with too much accessable currency in the bank before orchestrating this take down. They should have drained us down to a bare minimum first. But alas, their screw up may be the event that allows us to cram those illegal short contracts down their throats until they are oozing out their backsides. No need for toilet paper...
In Macau now on the way back to Zhuhai. Gold shops are busy, busy, busy and its not a weekend. Mainland shops are having lines form. Locals I talk too are amused at the buying frenzy. Fuck you Bernanke appears to be the message. The dog-fuckers on Wall St are looking at a looming reaming from Asian gold buyers.
regards