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US Mint Halts Sales, Depletes Inventory Of One-Tenth Ounce Gold Coins
We have been reporting extensively on the terminal disconnect between the paper gold market, which tumbled ten days ago for a variety of reasons, and the physical gold market which one can safely say, has seen a record surge in demand by those who wish to take advantage of the tumbling prices, depleting inventories of gold and silver in virtually all jurisdictions, and leading to the a record purchase of gold in the US mint a week ago as also reported here.
Today, we learn that, as expected, none other than the US Mint has officially run out of small denomination gold coins, in this case One-Tenth ounce American Eagle gold bullion coins. We are confident this incontrovertible proof of soaring retail demand for physical will somehow result in JPM or another bullion bank dumping a few extra thousands ounces of paper/electronic gold or silver to further disconnect the paper price from what is actually going on with physical demand. As for the US Mint, first it's fractions of an ounce: look forward to the mint running out of all bullion denominations in the coming days and week, first in gold, then in silver as well.
From Reuters:
The U.S. Mint said it has suspended sales of its one-tenth ounce American Eagle gold bullion coins as surging demand after bullion's plunge to two-year lows depleted the government's inventory.
This marks the first time it has stopped selling gold product since November 2009, dealers said. A spokesman for the Mint did not return calls seeking confirmation of that milestone.
The U.S. Mint, one of the world's leading gold and silver coin producers, halts coin sales from time to time as it runs out of coin blanks to meet increases in demand.
So far in April, the U.S. Mint has sold 175,000 ounces of American Eagle gold coins, putting it on track to challenge a high of 231,500 ounces set in December 2009.
* * *
While the one-ounce American Eagle gold coins remain the most popular size, year-to-date demand for the one-tenth ounce coins has been up over 118 percent compared to the same period in 2012, the Mint said.
We, for one, can only hope that the idiotic smashdown of spot paper gold continue and the price is sent to $0 or negative, while the last remaining physical ounce in inventory disappears at any price.
At that point the exchanges will have quite a few anxious people to answer to, the second someone demands even one bar in delivery.
Also, learn the words: "forced cash settlement."
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Yeah man I don't know what to make of it. Also a lot of the smart gold dudes on here are saying this is a non event on top of it.
i found this:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/us-mint-suspends-production-american-eagle-gold-and-silver-bullion-coins-due-unprecedented-d
FWIW the mint is selling 2013 Gold eagles for $1810 so I'd say you should be shopping elsewhere anyway.
This happened a few weeks ago when Vanguard Bogle guy said there would be two 50% drops in the next decade. I could not find a link and called april fools bs. Tyler linked it up a few mins later and I looked stupid. I am interested but not calling BS.
It's on WSJ.
link it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here you go Kito
http://stream.wsj.com/story/markets/SS-2-5/SS-2-218610/?mod=WSJ_Markets_streamMkts
Thanks Thulsa
thank you!!!!!
clearly, there are brisk sales, but not the first time.......one has to be careful of propaganda in either the pro or anti pm camps...................
why does the US Mint sell silver and gold at all?
do they raise revenue doing this? or lose revenue?
who supplies the govt. with bullion to make into coins?
Not sure how the govt. works this business.
statutorily required... because earlier generations were wise to the paper games.
One does have to wonder why the US and other governments continue to mint bullion coins, though --- and how and when they will discontinue doing so, which they eventually must if all the speculations surrounding the fraudulent paper PM markets of the GATA/Sinclair/Sprott/Maguire etc. camp are in fact correct.
They can generate revenue by selliing to citizens and then turn around later and confiscate it
Would make more sense to get a record delivery set of orders, not ship them, drop the price intensely, then demand by law cash settlement, then raise the price 10x or something huge after settlements are done and make gold ownership a ‘mark of terrorism’ implicitly illegal rather than to even make new laws.
Right...
By law...
With US produced gold and silver, BTW
Do some reading back on the Comstock Lode and the rationale starts coming clear.... The silver discovery was the largest ever and the miners had influence (via sliver, duh) to make it mandatory of the gubamint to buy their product via mandatory minting to meet demand....etc, etc, etc.
That's far from the exact facts of the matter, but serves the illustrative purpose.
why does the US Mint sell silver and gold at all?( because they make a profit on it,and are the go between to the West Point mint,likely others)
do they raise revenue doing this? or lose revenue? (above)
who supplies the govt. with bullion to make into coins?( Suppposed to be American PM's, as far as I know there is only ONE Ag mine producing in the US, and it's in Nevada).(they have been allowed to outsource to MEET demand,by law they are required to meet the US public demand.)
Not sure how the govt. works this business. ( dats it in a nutshell).
On the financial side - I guess they probably hedge on the paper market. This means that they may be able to get away with not fulfilling their statutory requirement to mint coins by blaming the same force majeure that their counterparties will likely invent when the inevitable paper default comes.
As to the actual physical supplies... if I'm not mistaken, I read somebody say that they are obliged to use only silver mined in the US, which means the recent mine landslide in Utah that provided 16% of US silver supply might be the cause of at least some short term supply issues.
try this frankand...
http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?45661-US-Mint-shortage-of-SAE...
According to the web site they have 1/10 ouncers for $200. April sales are already at all time records with eight days left to go too.
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/OrderItemDisplay?sho...
But the WSJ is reporting they have suspended sales. WTF?
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/04/23/u-s-mint-suspends-sale-of-smal...
My guess is that if you want them you're going to have to pay the Mint's prices. They aren't going to be shipping them to local dealers. That in itself would be an interesting development.
Fonzannoon,
Click ON Gold Eagles and you will see Uncirc, and this message.
For investors, please click on the appropriate link for information on United States Mint American Eagle Bullion Coins or to locate a bullion coin dealer near you.
US Mint.gov cannot sell regular Eagles or anything else to the GP,the UNCIRCULATED coins is as low on the scale as it gets.
@ DosZap:
Unless things have changed, the Mint only sells to "authorized dealers", who are wholesalers to the numismatic industry. A lot of them send their Mint orders directly to the grading services (PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG) for grading.
So, cost of coin, plus cost of grading, plus premium (on MS70/PF70) = wholesale bid in the numismatic business. Bid + 10% equals wholesale Ask. Retail = Ask + 5-10%.
I found two other websites posting this Reuters article independently of ZH:
http://www.xe.com/news/2013/04/23/3319209.htm
http://www.fxmemo.com/forum/thread/3989751/
Agreed. But it also sounds like what you're implying then is this kind of demand on the mint is unprecedented, no?
In the spirit of questioning everything (this is fight club, right?) I have to wonder about this record consumer demand for gold/silver right now. Typically we hear that a bubble peak is characterized by this sort of manic buying by the broader public, and therefore signals an imminent pop. I suppose one could make the argument that this is not yet "broad" public demand, however reading about customer lines 10 deep, inventories sold out at LCS and online.... Sure sounds like a buying frenzy. Is it possible we are seeing the peak mania but the accompanying price rise was obfuscated by the coordinated smack down just over a week ago, and other smack downs along the way to now? If so what does that mean going forward for the POG? And once all this inventory is in the hands of the public, then what? They can't spend it directly for the most part, many of them may be looking to flip it (it's going to $50,000! Etc) Are we just setting up for another selloff, this time in physical as weak hands who jumped in now decide to dump their coins when it trades sideways or down for another year?
I see lots of articles saying TPTB messed up with this paper smack down causing a rift with physical prices, but maybe they're intentionally herding physical metals into weak hands for round two? Curious to hear others' thoughts on this.
I dont know if there has ever been a bubble where prices are decreasing?
".....TPTB..... maybe they're intentionally herding physical metals into weak hands..." - What bank wants you to trade in fiat for gold?
Usually with massive panic buying you get a parabolic rise in price, no?
Agree. And keep in mind I'm stacking as I ponder these questions. But the only thing that seems to be rising parabolically is the premiums on phyz, and even then it's not a significant change as a percentage of the total purchase price, yet. But we are seeing buying to the point of exhausting current inventories in the short term, which is certainly similar to panic buying on its face. But no commiserate parabolic rise in price, which is why I wonder if there is more to this story. Many people here tend to ascribe a mix of clever evil motive and base stupidity to TPTB and their actions, but it's difficult to resolve that dissonance. Somehow they are intelligent enough to hatch a nefarious plot to coordinate a global smack down in PMs, without killing a major player and without leaving an obvious prosecutable evidence trail (or at least buying off the regulators first). Yet then they're too dumb to forecast the huge demand and disconnect of prices in the physical market as a result? Something doesn't jibe there which makes me wonder if there is more to the story.
What better way to truly dissuade the public from PMs than by first making paper too risky to touch, then following up by a similar move in physical. Get the weak hands to dump the phyz back to the banks real cheap and voila! Inventory shortages solved, shorts covered, go net long and let it rip.
Not sure what the other shoe to drop would be to do that, but then most folks never expected to see 15% of (paper) annual world Au production sold off in 30 minutes.
You're looking at bubbles being created within the context of a stable currency. When the currency bubble pops or the dollar gets dramatically devalued, which I believe is inevitable, then you can compare the value of real money to fiat money.
"(or at least buying off the regulators first). Yet then they're too dumb to forecast the huge demand and disconnect of prices in the physical market as a result?"
Let me explain it. They bought off the regulators, hence not a peep about the gold crash from them. You can't fool all the people all the time. Lets use that as an axiom. Not all 'players' will react the same to the plunge in price. Some may try to catch the falling knife, some may go in with leverage at the end of Friday's drop, thinking that was the whole plunge. Others will wait and see. Some will run and sell their gold. But most likely those 'weak hands' have sold grandma's earrings a long time ago.
So really, you are trying to trick 95% of people. Not 100%. You want to fool the chart guys, the momentum guys, people who placed stops, or used leverage... And on top you want a nice narrative of gold 'isn't safe any more'. Yes, fiat money, deposited with your bank, thats where you want to be! Maybe some nice stable, dependable government debt for you?
@ Swarmee:
Quote: "I see lots of articles saying TPTB messed up with this paper smack down causing a rift with physical prices, but maybe they're intentionally herding physical metals into weak hands for round two? Curious to hear others' thoughts on this."
As far as this statement goes, I agree with you. As the paper price and the physical price separate, look for the paper price to continue dropping. Yes, there's a tremendous amount of physical buying happening. I agree with the sentiments of others that "Joe Q. Sixpack" is not getting into the PM market, just yet. BUT out of the people who are buying, how many of them are buying on the advice of loved ones? Family, friends?
The point is, How many of the new entrants into Gold and Silver, understand the Gold and Silver markets? How many understand the paper leverage game? Gold leasing? Forward hedging?
Answer: Not many.
They see "Gold Price". And when this class of buyers sees the paper price fall dramatically, they will be hitting the sell button.
flat out, they’re NOT hitting the ‘sell’ button. Not now.
“Yet then they're too dumb to forecast the huge demand and disconnect of prices in the physical market as a result?”
Ya, because no one in history’s ever been able to forecast the true action of the crowd to follow. It’s a chaotic system. It defies forecasting, like forecasting which raindrops will hit where at what second having seen but clouds in the distance or in our era radar images. It’s only partially helpful. It’s part of the reason the calculation problem exists and is intractable.
Swarmee,
I respectfully disagree, here in the states there is no real RUN on PM's by Joe 6 pack,and most folks I know are still in denial and fully invested in their 401k funds in stocks.(Gonna lose it all, YET again).The LINES you refer to are not in the US, they are overseas.
Those folks are not weak hands, they have a LONG tradition of understanding value, and Insurance,as well as a cultural affinity for the metals.
I don't know about the rest of the US but the blue state I live in, I didn't see anyone running to the local shops to buy. The online sales are brisk according to the guy running the shop I talked with but the local walk in crowd was pretty much non existent, They had inventory also not massive amounts but you could walk in and walk out with about 10k of gold or silver bullion and bars no problem, premiums weren't that bad either, I only paid $4 on 10oz silver bullion bars over spot, spot was higher for coins and depending the coin that varied also by up to $10 over spot, gold was at 5% over spot last week here locally (I have no idea what the online market is pricing it at over spot). People around here are by and large clueless to what is going on. Joe six pack around here will most likely be flooding places like these after the market crashes in panic mode not before. By then everyone stacking and holding physical depending on the value of the paper should be able to flip some of that physical for a nice profit when the panic starts in the blue states back to the local coin and pawn shops.
Big world with lots of trading going on. Capital running scared. Funds desperate for cash flow. Etc. The "real" fundamentals have yet to really assert themselves. Folks here (myself included) are early to the party.
I agree about being early to the party, I'm just trying to highlight a difference in how people view gold and silver and hence the local demand vs. global. Macro vs. micro, micro is going to vary on geographic location.
Right on. Your mileage may vary. Batteries not included. Some assembly required. +1 from me.
The only constant here is that those who are really concerned with relative price are in for a rough ride for a little longer. Then, they will be faced with a decision to sell - and how much to sell, when PMs really take off. The "top" for PMs will be right before real world deflation kicks in like an angry mule on steroids. After that, who the hell knows what value will be for awhile. Again, depends on where one is at the time... and remember the payment across the river styx (paid on the other side only).
LOOKS LIKE POST LANDED IN WRONG SPOT. SOMEONE PLEASE FIX THIS!
For those of us seeking to exit dollars, suspecting it will be forced or that we will benefit by choosing early, this is not a concern.
You're absolutely wrong. By law, the gold for Gold American Eagles must come from sources in America, alloyed with silver and copper to produce a more wear-resistant coin. These mints can't keep up because there isn't enough raw material. Other mints from around the world are having a hard time keeping up with demand by the way. It's a worldwide problem.
do you think these guys will apply opposite logic....lets drive the price to the moon and they will sell instead of buy......problem solved
Further proof that nobody trusts markets or government except the obama and bernanke sack lickers like LIESman
How will this cause Hyperinflation?
I know, and when it happens it will tear this country apart.
Are you referring to "Bubbles" Bernanke?
I thought it was Ben "I blow bubbles" Bernanke.
Hey Ben,
The circus is back in town and Bubbles remembers YOU.
Just bought a few ounces of silver today. Those bastards are on delay as well.
I got delivery yesterday from last weeks order, now very little to buy
It's been three weeks since I paid Tulvin for Ag; still no delivery or idea of when it'll ship. If I hadn't ordered from him before I'd be worried instead of irritated.
EDITED TO ADD: Never mind; I just learned that the order shipped today.
Maybe people have figured out how to eat this stuff.
Shalom, Ben Shalom! Thank you for the Dip, so we who are true gold friends can Buy The Frikkin Dip (BTFD) and keep stacking.
Obviously the paper-gold/ETF guys now really hate your guts. Especially if they went Long or are speculating -- and thus are not True Gold Friends.
Been off the air most of the day so this has probably already been covered, it's worth repeating though. I recall Jim Willie mentioning that there are billions in claims being litigated in Switzerland over allocated bullion that is missing and/or not being delivered as per contract. It has to date been kept out of the press. I'm wondering whether something like this may break that logjam? Probably not since the press is controlled. Nonetheless, lots of folks are going to be reading how banks are now confiscating gold from allocated accounts, could be interesting.
"Dear CIGAs,
Today legendary trader Jim Sinclair stunned King World News when he revealed that a dear friend of his who is very affluent just had a Swiss bank refuse to return his large hoard of gold when he asked for it out of an allocated account. Below is what Sinclair, who was once called on by former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker to assist during a Wall Street crisis, had to say in this remarkable and candid interview.
Eric King: “Maguire spoke on KWN yesterday about the fact that one of his clients went to the LBMA to get the metal from them and could not get it. They told him he would be cash settled. This is what you have been talking about is the failure of the physical markets.”
Sinclair: “A person that I know with significant deposits in one of the primary Swiss banks, in allocated gold, wanted to take out his gold and was just refused on the basis of directives from the central bank….
Click here to read the full interview on KingWorldNews.com
I like the 1/10th oz Eagles. They make great gifts to the right people. They are also affordable (they cost about $165 each).
I suppose the next ones to go will be the 1/4 oz Eagles. Then the 1 oz... Buy now!
Nobody serious about investing in bullion has more than a tube or two of these. 12% premium it's basically produced so gold shops can make a profit selling then buying back and spot then selling again at 12% over and over. Wake me up when there are no gold eagles for sale.
But a decent dealer will also pay a premium to buy them back. He has to pay a markup on new ones from the distributors so you should get the same price. Avoid dealers who only pay spot.
Yes of course but you can buy a 1 oz eagle for let's say $60 over spot and sell it back for $20 over spot. You have to pay 12% over for 1/10 eagles then when you sell back they give you a song and dance and only offer to pay 3% over spot, maybe if you are lucky 5% over spot. Do the math, the 1/10 oz eagles are gravy train for coin shops. Personally I like the 1/10 oz eagles but it's by no means a market indicator if the mint runs out of them.
Once ZH did a Chicken Little article about how the mint had run out of PROOF silver coins and to anyone who knows the business the only response is B F D.
You mention that this isn't a big deal, and you may be right.
But one thing you seem to take for granted is your statement that retailers are willing to pay more than spot to buy gold.
This demonstrates the disconnect between paper and physical.
Are you personally a gold buyer because it doesn't sound like it.
It's never too late to start, and this is a good entry point. Go buy some 1/10 oz eagles if you want but a better deal is the 1 oz coin.
The 12% premium for 1/10 oz coin vs the much lower premium for the 1 oz coin has nothing to do with a disconnect between paper and physical. That premium has always been there even when paper price is high and there is plenty of supply.
An accurate demonstration of a disconnect between paper and physical is that stores fill up with buyers and supply dries up.
No it doesn't reflect a disconnect - it reflects transaction costs. Go try buying or selling anything on any market without paying commissions. It's the same in options arbitrage - the prices between puts and calls look skewed, but aren't actually arbitrageable once you figure trading costs into the price differences. Moreover, if you know anything about bullion you know that there is a premium on any metal that is minted, and that premium is higher the smaller the denomination of coin/bar. That's why it is inefficient to buy 1/10th oz gold eagles in comparison to 1 oz coins or bars. Indeed, you also pay an additional premium for a recognized coin (eagle, maple, kruger, philharmonic, panda, etc.) over a bar with the same bullion content. That's the tradeoff between having a coin of known assay value and a bar.
I'm all for bullion, but be an informed investor, not a sucker. If you can't finance lower premium, higher-cost gold bullion, than maybe you should be working with silver instead.
I was talking about what retailers pay individuals.
Of course individuals would pay above spot.
No! when the bid is higher than the ask you have the seed of inflation sprouting.
Allways fear that if you dont get it now you will never get it cheaper.
Read Fear and Greed, 1st chapter of Economics 101
tenth ozs are the cheapest entry point. if i'm new to the gold game, that's what I'm buying. I don't care about premium initially due to my trepidation with regard to my 1st physical purchase.
I'm not well off enough to give 1oz gifts either, but tenth's are perfect.
use that magnum brain of yours
I have been a gold buyer for years but unfortunately I had a boating accident and it's lost. However, I can tell you that 1/10 oz Austrian Philharmonics are a better bet for you. Lower premium and very nice coin. 1/10 oz eagles are nice too but consider the Phils as well. Good luck my friend. Keep stacking.
tenth ozs are the cheapest entry point. if i'm new to the gold game, that's what I'm buying. I don't care about premium initially due to my trepidation with regard to my 1st physical purchase.
I'm not well off enough to give 1oz gifts either, but tenth's are perfect.
use that magnum brain of yours
Newbies may well be entering the game this way.
This post actually provides a useful prism to understand the issue, ( if there is actually an issue) otherwise I am struggling to get excited by this "development".
Yes demand is higher across retailers but, I would advise caution in the gold market at this time. There still could be much Sovereign gold that may be fed to the markets to keep the ponzi going. (pigs countries)
The PTB are probably filming stacks of warehouse gold now so they can trot the film out in two years time and pretend it happened yesterday...
Consider that perhaps the "great manipulation" is just taking on a new form, perhaps a form designed to deliberately demoralize And misinform the stackers, is that possible?
EDIT for example are the Central Banks buying or selling?
If they were going to manipulate for a shake out of the stackers wouldnt it make sense for them to accumulate first?
I am a little slow on the uptake so someone please explain to me WHY any one would "flip" gold or silver bullion? ......or sell same back to LCS for a "profit"? To get what? Green paper with dead presidents? Help me understand cause I just happen to know where a large bag of coins fell overboard on a recent boat trip.
that’s what you pay for misallocation of wealth. If you wanted paper you should have traded paper. I do trade paper as I please, hzu (tsx), gld calls, slv calls, gld puts, spy options, whatever, but my bullion is for ME. It’s trade-value in profit later is for other tangibles. I allocate to 1/10th gold, silver, paper as needed for the expected future along several overlapping time-frames.
A tube? I have about eight of them, LOL... But, your point is valid, things will get BAD when there are no 1 oz Eagles available.
O/T:
Look at Number 490 on this list:
http://www.clustrmaps.com/top-users.html
Eight pieces of 1/10ths, not tubes... LOL!
They are very usefull. When inflation picks up a one ounce coin will not be usefull as currency. Even today 1400 dollar coins are not that usefull except if you are buying a car or a house. Even 1/10th of an ounce is a bit much for shopping.
I'm not worried about usability. An electronic scale and a pair of tin snips will get the job done if both parties are interested in doing a deal.
(But I didn't downvote you).
I think junk silver fits the role of trade best. Running around with gold could be hazardous to your health. Everyone will start thinking you prepared. They might exchange lead for gold.
I think junk silver fits the role of trade best. Running around with gold could be hazardous to your health. Everyone will start thinking you prepared. They might exchange lead for gold.
Agreed if you can find it, and your talking SHTF scenario.
Bottom line is people will need to be prepared & will only deal with others who also prepare. Others will be subducted into poverty like the ocean floor.
1/10ths are a good bridge between 5 and 10 oz silver rounds and the higher weights of gold coins. I had 20 of them before the dog knocked them off of the boat and I know I was paying a higher premium but wanted an escaltion of sizes. In the end if everything goes to complete shit, paying a higher premium on the lower sizes isn't going to matter much
I acquired a tube's worth between $50 and $100 during the initial run up. Figured they might be useful for small scale barter. Alas, lost it with all the rest when my canoe tipped trying to land a River Monster.
There are numerous people who are very serious about investing in gold bullion and who have more than a tube or two of .10 ounce gold currency. However, the coin's purpose (in large numbers) has less do with "investing" and more to due with a divisible medium of exchange (i.e. returns) in the event of banking holiday.
Or in simpler words, when TSHTF try breaking a $1500 "bill" or asking for change- because you're likely to receive that change in LEAD (potentially travelling at a high velocity).
You should keep cash, booze and silver coins for that. And trade them in that order. You'd be surprised how many people will still accept fiat for a while even after it crashes.
Lead, Diesel, Medicine, Knowledge the list goes on and on... But what prepared serious investor needs "physical" GOOD DELIVERY BARS before they have all or even some of the pre-requites?
You only need physical metals if you don't trust that your banker actually has your gold, or suspect that he might take an unscheduled holiday- and if you actually or seriously suspect that- then you need a hell of lot more than just a pile of big metal bars and a prayer.
Gold bullion isn't for when SHTF. It's for having an honest money system when the world respects the rule of law, and criminals actually go to jail regardless of the size of their campaign contributions.
The last time I was buying in quantity .10s were about equivalent to a $50 bill, and have behaved much more honestly than the stack of 50's next them that has mildewed a bit (despite dessicant) and debased a lot.
I wouldn't hold my breath for honest money and rule of law though, the ride back can be just as agonizingly slow as the ride out, even when the threat is only on a national level (as in Russia under Yeltsin) it's taken years and they're still not there yet.
Regardless, life and commerce will go on and there will be opportunities to be seized at certain moments- semper paratus.
Actually, It's for having money left over with some real worth after the SHTF and everyone else was fleeced of their savings and wealth. The world as a whole doesnt really respect the rule of law, and politically connected criminals rarely go to jail here or anywhere, unless it helps divert attention from an even bigger crook. I'll be happy when the US restores the rule of law which is in embodied in that little short document.
delete
it’s precisely for shtf – having a currency collapse is by definition s h t f and by definition a lack of currency is a return to goods as money, such as gold coins (small) and silver coins, the bars being for the NEW establishment of NEW community banks, or supporting existing credit unions with real hard currency if you believe you can trust them.Gold is money when rule of law does not yet exist so you can pay to survive to BUILD a rule of law.
Barter goods in lieu of currency.... After WWII had ended you had cigarettes serving as currency in Occupied Germany. Stale as hell and probably unsmokable but traded easily. Canned goods - long gone bad - were also used, anything with perceived value.
In past currency collapses you had 'safe haven' currencies as stores of value. When Yugoslavia fell apart people held German 100 Mark notes. Easily spent and eagerly sought, the problem was when you went to spend pone you didn't get change back. The $US and South African Rand served in Zimbabwe (with gold dust).
The problem is that there's NO currency large enough to serve as a 'safe haven' given the potential demand. Reality is no nation WANTS to be that 'safe haven' as it makes their currency too expensive and jkills off export commerce. That's why the Swiss deliberately linked to the Euro.
I expect the old stand-bys - alcohol, canned goods and maybe mmo - will prove to be good items for exchange. Gasoline could be a high demand item but the new ethanol mixes go bad after time.... Maybe propane and camp stoves?
I like the 1/10 oz Eagles too DoChen. They fit in the tubes for dimes nicely. Hopefully they will stay sealed tight away from the water at the bottom of the lake.
Have no fear, Dagny! Even if the tubes leak, the gold will not tarnish! #Winners!
WEAPONS MERCHANT!
Fun site for your Pb (the "other" PM) needs:
gunbot.net
I just hate that the premiums are so high on them compared to the 1 ounce coins.
I can see 1/10 ounce for gifts, but certainly not for investment. And with the premiums, they aren't doing much to preserve purchasing power.
They're still available here, along with other sizes: http://www.pmbull.com/gold-price/
Keep the gold for investment.
Give these as gifts:
http://www.apmex.com/Category/110/America_the_BeautifulSilver_BullionCoin_Program.aspx
I'd buy a commemorative 1 oz silver coin with Blythe Masters face engraved on it just for the sheer irony.
or engraved with Blythe Masters ass...
Hard to tell the difference...
I just hate that the premiums are so high on them compared to the 1 ounce coins
Me too, but there are reasons for the high prems.
ONE is cost of dies.These lil pricks wear out dies faster than one ounce dies,(same as 1/4oz,also) and cost a lot more to make than 1oz coin dies that will last much longer.
Also. I also like British sovereigns and half sovereigns for the same reason (also being VAT and CGT free).
It's a good number for spending. A couple of weeks grocery shopping for a medium family, a new pair of good quality hiking boots. New tyres for the car. It's a spendable amount of money for an ordinary person.
I like the 1/10th oz Eagles.
Do, so do I,but when I look at the prems , and the 10 x 1/10oz price, I refer the 1oz.LOL
1/10th oz AGEs would be small enough for some purchases in the future, less "change" necessary. They are almost exactly the "geometric average" between a 1 oz Silver Eagle and the 1 oz Gold Eagle.
The 1/10ths are OK for (future) spending. The big ones for carrying wealth through the generations...
The sky is falling there are no 1/10 oz eagles LOL.
Do yourself a favor and try to connect the dots.
plus 1 BOP .. connect the dots and paint by numbers
Demand up, market price down? What school of eCONomics did you go to? LMFAO indeed!!!!
Huh? It is standard economics to expect that as prices decline, more quantity is demanded. What you are referencing is a shift of demand curves, perhaps.
Sigh...........yet another troll who bought near the top and now is pissed his stash is lower in terms of fiat.
indeed. This is a time of higher profits. I get much more gold or silver for the same work-hours. Given that it’s gold, silver, food, etc., that I want as an output/trade for my work-hours this is PROFIT not loss. You can always tell who’s mentality is stuck on fiat as money vs awoken, realizing real goods are real value and fiat is a medium of exchange, currency, and worse, forced upon us. Forced is the hint: no one forces you to use things for your own good (except maybe some good parents when you’re a young’in). In all other cases it’s your government “authorities” forcing you to be a slave, to lose your rights, your property, all at once or a little at a time. You can only gain by being awake, aware, prepared & breaking loose of the control grid.
How can this be when Goldman's has said emphatically that demand is waning? or are they talking about a different kind of "demand"?
Demand for bald Blankfein heads and guillotines is rising.
It's true then? The $1,400 Blankfein gold piece with his profile on the front and the guillotine on the back with the words "In Blankfein We Trust To Do God' Work" embossed around the edge. I can't wait to get a tube.
sokkomb (youtube search that, you won’t be disappointed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ATrhuqd5sM
Down is up, white is black, demand IS supply.
Really?
Anyway. All the mint has to do is buy some of that excellent JPM stamped gold on the spot market and turn it into coins. No problems.
I think the Chinese will be doing this shortly after they have drained the ETFs of all the bullion they have.
+1,Classic ! "We, for one."
If you have the cash, you can take delivery from the Criminex with about a 1% premium to the cash price. Its mostly just a delivery charge and a fee for taking delivery.
Considering the physical premium of anywhere between 25% - 40%, this gives a huge arbitrage opportunity to the dealers to take delivery. If the demand for physical is as high as it seems, then given enough time, they will deliver and squeeze the paper price to deliver.
Following up on GetZeeGold's query from yesterday- Has anyone taken delivery from the Crimex in the last 18 months?
Even Andrew McGuire has admitted doing it - at some point in history. But it comes across more like a due-diligence or confirmation-of-bias exercise- before returning to business as usual, and taking delivery of physical Crimex inventory seems like business as usual to remarkably too few people.
Jewelers do it on a routine basis.
So Warren Buffett and Richline Group have a secret tunnel to the Crimex vault to match Jamie Dimon's secret tunnel to the FRBNY vault and he can get physical gold out of the Crimex whenever he pleases, but no one else can, why am I not surprised...
Richline Group's motto would have an alarming similarity to ein Führer, ein Reich, ein Volk if translated into German, I wonder if he has a funeral home chain buried in his Berkshire Reichs...
I also wonder if Warren is keeping any "excess inventory" on the Richline balance sheet, or sneaking any of the merchandise home to "sample", while disparaging the barbarous relic in public at every opportunity, which conveniently drives his acquisition cost down.
They more traditional sized jeweler who apparently got hosed in NYC with the tungsten bars was buying a couple 10oz bars at a time.
are you sure? Last I checked many get actually 1 kg bars, harder to fake, easier to handle, not 400 oz ‘good delivery bars’ which are standard for the COMEX delivery contracts. Is this information inaccurate?
see, this is the problem with all these cry-babies; booo, they dont have eagles. end of the world. for fucks' sakes, all you dumb asses, take delivery of 1000oz good delivery silver bars from comex and stab the beast in the heart by collapsing the 100:1 leveraged derivative fraud
"All you dumb asses, take delivery"
Well, as a dumb-ass muppet, I was going to do just that: set up a futures account with a broker who facilitated physical delivery. The name at the top of the list, for dumb-ass muppets like me, was Lind Waldock, soon to be ass-raped by MF Global.
"Take delivery", great idea. Keep talking, and keep walking.
you first, then tell me how it worked out. It worked out very well for all those MF Global customers didn’t it? Oh yes, so well.
have you actually seen such a delivery, received one? Word is in the past 2 years many have been told to take paper or take a hike (lawsuit) and many who tied their money INTO the contracts in the first place realize that’s the money they’d need to sue … so they take the paper as told like good little market-monkeys.
Keep going Bernanke. You also oversaw an epic real estate bubble and now you got the bond market into a complete bubble and are well on your way with the stock market. To finish up, you can oversee the destruction of the dollar for an encore.
It was a Govt mandated housing bubble. Don't forget the Subprime enablers: Fannie, Freddie, HUD and Barney Frank.
And the "tax incentive" to pay interest to a bankster.
BoooooooooooooooooooooYaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaH !
Says Cramer.
Two Helena Handbasket!
Maples are more pretty and are 24k.
They also do 24k Austrian Phils at 1/10 and those are even more impressive miniaturized.
Just ask my local pond...
They also do 24k Austrian Phils at 1/10 and those are even more impressive miniaturized.
Maybe the 1/10th are,but the Phils IMHO are so BUTT ugly, I cannot bring myself to purchase them.
Not everyone gets off on images of the Royal Hag, sorry. I'll take that dude on the Krug as a protest face!
j/k - I have Maples lg and sm
The Philharmonics have the Satan's curse on them. It says "EURO".....
Same amount of gold in each..
I know. The 24k pureness makes them more pretty, more sparkley, more twinkley :o)
Aussie 'roos.....
They are my fav too.
Maples are more pretty and are 24k.
Yep, prems are less, but the damned things scratch and dent so easily lid golves must be used on them, and all .999-.99999 coins.
If they send GLD lower, I will buy even more. These banksters just don't seem to get the point. If they keep doing this, Bundesbank 'll never see their gold.
maybe that IS part of the plan!! Just like Kyle Bass was told “price will solve everything”
...aaaand the price goes down!
funny how the barbaric relic is flying off the shelves, eat shit paul k
And Warren Buttfuck.
On a FAR MORE SERIOUS NOTE, Tulving is for the first time I have EVER SEEN completely sold out of gold. Forget the 1/10 oz eagle scoop boys and girls this is huge:
http://tulving.com/goldbull.html
THIS IS THE USA's TOP DEALER FOR DEALERS AND HE IS SOLD OUT OF ALL GOLD.
make up your fucking mind will you?
Ha I actually can't tell what's up with Tulving because one table shows he has stock another says Sold Out across the board.
That would be his BUY CHART.
LOL
This is like waching classic troll ZTV .. just fucking awsome i was laughing so hard at read the buy chart ,,, way funny
OK I made a misread of Tulving's old style website so what. You probably did not even know Tulving before I mentioned it. The fact is ZH misses the mark on this story -- because a 1/10 oz eagle shortage is meaningless. And yes I do know the bullion business.
My dealer had 45 silver products available three weeks ago. Now he has 7. Notice how I never mention my dealer's name......
local dealer had a few 1/10 maples, a couple of hundred 1oz sunshine bars and a bar of scrap. his thursday order is 50% sold as of yesterday afternoon. He said he recieved an order yesterday and is was 80% sold. He said his dealer upped their premiums
Local Kijiji listings has no gold and the odd silver offered. Private guy wants to buy at spot plus 1$.
Private guy wants to buy at spot plus 1$.
Private guy is in LALA land.
If I didn't have to sign in to send him that message I would.