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US Mint Halts Sales, Depletes Inventory Of One-Tenth Ounce Gold Coins
We have been reporting extensively on the terminal disconnect between the paper gold market, which tumbled ten days ago for a variety of reasons, and the physical gold market which one can safely say, has seen a record surge in demand by those who wish to take advantage of the tumbling prices, depleting inventories of gold and silver in virtually all jurisdictions, and leading to the a record purchase of gold in the US mint a week ago as also reported here.
Today, we learn that, as expected, none other than the US Mint has officially run out of small denomination gold coins, in this case One-Tenth ounce American Eagle gold bullion coins. We are confident this incontrovertible proof of soaring retail demand for physical will somehow result in JPM or another bullion bank dumping a few extra thousands ounces of paper/electronic gold or silver to further disconnect the paper price from what is actually going on with physical demand. As for the US Mint, first it's fractions of an ounce: look forward to the mint running out of all bullion denominations in the coming days and week, first in gold, then in silver as well.
From Reuters:
The U.S. Mint said it has suspended sales of its one-tenth ounce American Eagle gold bullion coins as surging demand after bullion's plunge to two-year lows depleted the government's inventory.
This marks the first time it has stopped selling gold product since November 2009, dealers said. A spokesman for the Mint did not return calls seeking confirmation of that milestone.
The U.S. Mint, one of the world's leading gold and silver coin producers, halts coin sales from time to time as it runs out of coin blanks to meet increases in demand.
So far in April, the U.S. Mint has sold 175,000 ounces of American Eagle gold coins, putting it on track to challenge a high of 231,500 ounces set in December 2009.
* * *
While the one-ounce American Eagle gold coins remain the most popular size, year-to-date demand for the one-tenth ounce coins has been up over 118 percent compared to the same period in 2012, the Mint said.
We, for one, can only hope that the idiotic smashdown of spot paper gold continue and the price is sent to $0 or negative, while the last remaining physical ounce in inventory disappears at any price.
At that point the exchanges will have quite a few anxious people to answer to, the second someone demands even one bar in delivery.
Also, learn the words: "forced cash settlement."
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I hear ya - dude is annoying today
He'd make a good poltitician. I wonder what he really believes?
He'd make a good poltitician. I wonder what he really believes?
Himself?
Tulving is probably going to file Chapter 11 Bankruptcy AGAIN..... Keep churning....
I do wonder about that too.... with a massive inventory and $200/oz price drop he could be shitting bricks.
Dealers hedge using the comex. No worries about price declines affecting inventory.
LOL, thats preposterous and you should know it by now. Please....your "free markets" are working fine in PM's is getting extremely stale.
I don't understand your point. This is a simple risk management function. If you are a dealer holding physical, you short the paper market, so that declines in the price are hedged. Even the dealer letter from TXmetals yesterday offers hedging as a solution to clients who are wait-listed. You are free to hold the opinion that the physical market will divorce the paper market at some point in the future - but we are not ther yet!
You dont seem to understand what the US Mint is up against do you? That is the point of the post.
Most of us realize there is still some retail gold available.
@ Bay of Pigs:
Respectfully:
I've been in numismatic coins for 20+ years now. I mention this, only to indicate my perspective. The US Mint has been periodically been suspending production in various bullion issues for several years now.
Currently, this is a non-event for me, but subject to change, contingent on IF the Mint runs out of Gold products, period.
When they no longer have the materials necessary to produce Gold and Silver coins, in ANY denomination, I will officially be calling "Shortage".
Agreed. Im not reading too much into this. What I do know is Im hearing of long waits from Tulving (weeks) when he used to ship within 48 hours. He says those products are in stock.
Why the delays....something isnt adding up.
@ Bay of Pigs:
I've never dealt with Tulving, but I could imagine that 2 things are happening: They either don't have the staff to fulfill orders, or are expecting the value of their inventory to improve, and are trying to discourage buyers from placing orders.
I have a good friend who placed a large (can't be any other kind) order with Tulving back in early February, his first with Tulving, and it took almost SEVEN WEEKS, and only after several increasingly concerned phone calls, before he received his order. This was for items that had all been listed as "in stock".
On the (small) plus side, he did not say anything about having been treated rudely on the phone.
Tavex is one of the largest gold bulliondealers in Scandinavia. They are out of several coins including Eagels. I was there a week ago and I had to ask for several different products before they could sell it to me. They get deliveries every second week and when I was there there was an entire week left until the next delivery. Many people have placed orders and not gotten their gold yet which means gold could run out super fast tomorrow when they get new products.
Tulving sucks. Crappy company. They lie. They cheat. They steal.
Not in my experience. In fact, I've never heard that said by anyone.
You should really substantiate that kind of statement.
Tulving sucks. Crappy company. They lie. They cheat. They steal.
They lost me at "F" rating w/ BBB.
I have never heard of anyone having any troubles or issues with that company. I call bullshit.
Me too.
Here is a clue - they have this thing called GOOGLE - google tulving bankruptcy, tulving ripoff - look them up on better business bureau and read the comments.
You guys must be employees there.
If he is unethical please provide specific info on that, and I will concede your point. I know lots of people that have bought from him in the past. Never a complaint. And I have no reason to promote his company.
Me too. Although he can be brusque, he hasn't let me down yet. But as I noted above it's been three weeks and I'm still awaiting my last order of Ag.
Thanks for the Tulving update Geek, I have ordered from them several times and no problems only once was my shipment delayed about a week British Soverains was the buy. I like them for the fractional play and the premiums were cheap like $7 a coin or little over $28 an oz. premium. Tulving does kinda piss me off with the multiple listings of the same coin. Makes it look like they have more for sale than they do. The biggie for me is the subtle omission of IN STOCK which immediately implies SHORTAGE and you have to WAIT! In your case its over 3 weeks thats a great indicator we are out! Eagles on allocation and with the blanks suppliers crying NO MAS. The trainwreck is growing in size and intensity. A-wipes take the paper down again today they sure like to double down but my guess is the days are slipping away fast and their ability to continue this paper metal ponzi are about gone. May they all rot in HELL!
KC,
Here is the latest news. I just received Tulving's email with the tracking number (i.e. the Ag shipped today even though this AM they said they didn't know when it would go out).
I was joking with the woman in Tulving's shipping dept. that I wouldn't mind if they cancelled the order (because I ordered before the big sale), but it was only a joke. Despite what I originally considerd to be a mis-timed purchase I'm glad actual metal is on the way because things do seem to be getting worse. Good luck!
Yeah I guess thats the bonus of lower prices the physical shorts i.e the Tulvings and NWTM (NWTM's Ross sez no shortage but every order I have had with them since spring 2012 has been delayed but he goes on and sez no shortage ) have to deliver or face cancellation of existing orders. That would be real expensive at this point so its shipping before the guarantee deadline....not all bad considering the delays and premium increases. Just rationalization for missing the bottom I guess.....but nice to see the shiney when actual delivery is getting more precious and tenuous
Magnum = Jon Corzine, here to show us his trading expertise. You go, girl.
No problem if you don't care in the least about the destruction of major ecosystems, habitat and social communities..
The placer gold mining at the Zaamar site has increased the total riverine mass flows of Al, As, Cu, Fe, Mn, Pb and Zn by 44.300, 30.1, 65.7, 47.800, 1.480, 76.0 and 65.0 tonnes per year respectively. We suggest that local to regional transformation and enrichment processes in combination with suspended sediment transport from numerous existing upstream mining areas contribute to high concentrations of dissolved heavy metals in downstream parts of the Selenga River, including its delta area at Lake Baikal. Furthermore, single hydrological events can increase the suspended load concentrations by at least one order of magnitude. Overall, the Selenga River Basin, which drains into Lake Baikal, should be recognised as one of the world's most impacted areas with regard to heavy metal loads, and it contributes to 1% and 3% of the world flux of dissolved Fe and Pb, respectively.
Can't see it from my house.
ROFL. Best response !
Poster child for stupid and ignorant
Ah, at last some honesty!
Yes, confession is good for the soul.
You sure are!
FU douche bag, if you want to whine about something, try china
yes, you are
They could stop mining it today and it wouldn't make much difference, either to the arguments and interests of the people who post here, or to the global environmental situation.
You lack perspective.
Metals make messes, controllable ones that can and should be properly managed. But the tyranny of debt and misappropriation of capital through bad financial incentives makes real big messes....visible from space (maybe, or maybe I exaggerated there).
I suspect that you are right, he does lack perspective - a true believer.
I think that our current economic AND environmental messes are due to the failure of the mercantilistic elitists to honor correct market signals that would be the guiding rail of real laissez faire systems of political economy. Unintended consequences, being left with a sad, poor environment in many ways? The inflationary deflation is to be prefered ASAP.
Oh Waaaah.
PUD,
Do you drive? Then you are destroying the environment.
Your computer and that iPhone you show off at the coffee shop use gold and silver. And we can't forget about the low wage Chinese you are supporting by purchasing them.
Are you breathing? You are putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, not to mention copious amounts of hot air.
Do you sheer your own sheep and weave your own clothes? Then you are likely supporting child labor somewhere and have further contributed to global warming.
How do you sleep at night?
incredibly stupid reply. Truly mindless. I don't drive but if I did it would be out of need to make a living. You do not need gold to make a living.
See?
Why do I even reply to children?
This troll/sock puppet sounds exactly like Math Man used to.
One has to wonder if he is a sockpuppet of another or a prior troll, or if troll evolution is simply convergent.
somebody mention sockpuppet ?
@pud
i am so fucking tired of hearing biased environmental impact studies, EVERYTHING you have in your life, whether city or country is dependent on the manufacturing base.
if you want to go off the rail on a single commodity/currency/object/element then super duper, but seriously, i want you to get a job as a grinder/finisher (if you can find one), your shit is tired and pointless.
I am an atheist who has strong spiritualist tendencies towards pagan faiths, i believe that humans are not above or reasonably in cointrol of nature, but that our interactions and usurpation of natural processes will have appropriate consequences.
you are a very successful troll, who has been allowed to carpet bomb/thread-shit at random, you have found me out, i believe that humans are a part of the natural world, is that what you want?
please, there is zero credence in an anti-gold platform based on environmentalism.
if you are a Luddite then proclaim it, otherwise shut the fuck up. worthless.
*insert .gif of a zootroll being fed a steak.*
PUD (what an appropriate name)
What about that shit and other gases coming out of your extremely condescending ASS? Everything you eat has some nasty byproduct associated with it, pesticides, water runoff, etc. Or are you living in a cave grazing on grass all day?
I will bet you this aholes name reflect his job, one of the many overpaid "planners" who thinks they have all the answers about how the rest of us should live. (Pud=planned unit development). First to have his hand out when things get tough.
You do not need gold to make a living.
You don't need FRNs to make a living either. And they contain traces of lead.
Why do you use them?
Channeling Bawney Fwank......
But you do need stawks and bawnds......
I up arrowed you (sarcasm)
Do you need stawks and bawnds to make a living?
OK fessin up.......been home 5 days straight with thoracic shingles.......,.alcohol and vicodin may have gotten me through the hump........but WTF
AAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Seriously, I wouldn't wish this shit on the Obowel Movement.........uh well ok.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Thanks for that VISUAL....
you do need gold to live and you need to drive, including having others do so on your behalf and then you pay them. It’s all the same.
I believe the miners are more concerned with the airflow of Pb when they stop mining.
PUD ? is that Pacific Utilities District ? How wonderfull to be a totalitarian tax tick. You must dream of puppies and Shetland ponies every night.
Do you know how many worms are killed by field plowing,every day? and their benefit to the global village, lost!
I used to watch health nuts jogging in Los Angeles when the smog was so thick you could cut it with a knife and take some home in a plastic bag.
Some Horses have to wear blinkers because reality freaks them out, you are such a Horse.
Pud, ur right. Mining is nasty business.
You use electricity? Where'd that copper come from?
Whale blubber & oil lamps?
You're never going to stop the rape & pillage of the planet.
"Heavy metal loads?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BvHI5GvIYs
Gold works fine without doing any of this.
What makes you think the average person in ZH supports the increase of gold supply by mining more of it?
You suck at trolling.
"We, for one, can only hope that the idiotic smashdown of spot paper gold continue and the price is sent to $0 or negative"
At $0 I am going to claim it all.
If you can afford the premium.
Hoard Economics: The Cloud & Big Bang
Labor is not going to turn the generator back on until the majority gets out of the way. Family Law, all the certification and licensing impediments, and companies like Microsoft, Boeing, Apple and Google, selling America out with regulation, is going, one way or the other.
The Internet is designed to breed these functions out of existence over time, but the majority is welcome to terminate itself more abruptly by choosing war, leaving itself no other choice, for lack of brain cells. The system under construction is in no way dependent upon US Navy controlled trade routes, while the majority is entirely dependent upon that control.
Economics is, and always has been, about propulsion. Navy is a utility, and its power may be rescinded at will. Have you driven along RT 20 in NY? That is the majority’s future, Hillary Clinton and Henry Kissinger, a marriage made in hell, or heaven depending upon your perspective.
I will sit here in Fort Bragg, CA, while everyone around me tries to stop me from going back to work, and watch the potheads fleece dumber and dumber tourists, as their town crumbles from beneath them, like most every other town in America. Over 100 million Americans are already out of work. Half of the remaining is processing those out of work. And the other half is competing to sell America out just as fast as it can. Don’t put the shovel down; keep digging for gold.
There is an entire forest out here, and an entire ocean, but the corporations have locked them down, to keep individuals out, because the corporations have exploited them dry and are waiting for nature to replenish them, at the behest of the majority, to do it all over again. The majority is its own worst enemy, creating artificial borders to create artificial scarcity, in a positive feedback cycle, paying the Krugmans of the world to justify their behavior. Brilliant.
So, I’m drinking my coffee, watching groups crowd the elevator. Pretty soon, out comes a pry bar, the door is opened, and the nearest group jumps in, before they realize there is no cab at the floor, and falls to the pit. The process repeats while capital waits for the bodies to stack up, creating a floor to inflate itself upward. Funny, the cab turns out to be virtual. It exists only to the extent labor chooses it to exist.
We have already given the majority of people on this planet the weapons necessary to kill each other. Just get out of the way. There is no exit, the volume is decreasing as individuals exit, and the pressure is increasing as capital controls are implemented to stop them. One way or the other, labor gets paid.
If you have a sustainable local economy, you don’t need the US Navy, and soon, Government will have no teeth. You can print your own money at will. The majority should have taken better care of its children. It makes the same mistake, every time.
Is it possible to melt my Silver Eagles down to make penny size portions of silver? At what temp?
No the melting point of silver is higher than all materials used to make crucibles.
You don't know what you're talking about. Ceramic crucibles work fine. Silver melts at below 1800.
Being sarcy.
The video on melting tungsten and gold plating the little silvery bars is a real hoot.
Huh? Sounds like a lot of work. Why not just go back and get a shitload of silver dimes?
Ronaldawg, Look @ Youtube for directions.
I've watched several.
Also, a guy on Ebay can make the molds.
Yes, that is possible, but probably wasteful of the value implicit in its coinage, subjecting the bits thus produced to assay costs. Might be better to do a "pieces of eight" type thing that preserves some of the vestiges of coinage for authenticity sake. Best to leave it intact IMHO.
I was trying to make a semi sarcastic point about using fractional coins when SHTF. Like starting my own coinage - always wanted my picture on a coin. Thought one day my signature would be on the FRN but since it has Timmy's that dream has been completely deflated.
Wasn't serious although I do have a couple of ounces of pure silver that was found in the Kern River.
If History is a guide, that is exactly what is going to happen...once confiscation/capital control attempts fail...and there will be several new currencies, digital and otherwise, backed by commodities, gold and otherwise. The real question is which technology/currency pair will prevail.
If the western brokerages can't come up with the metal while China India et al. are buying hand over fist, the question of their very existence would come up would it not.
Who will do biz with the roundeye when they cheat and screw at every turn.
They are really going to step on their own dicks with this one.
Also, it's not like every Guailao is gung-ho about crashing the paper price; how long before someone with a big say GLD position screams loud and long?
Just sucks being long this shit with these games being played {whine}
Now if only they would let the yuan float and weren't printing as well. Trust no fiat and no person.
Shall I compare GOLD to a summer's day?
GOLD art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough SQUIDS do shake the darling buds of May,
And COMEX's lease hath all too short a date:
Sometime too hot the eye of BERNANKE shines,
And often is his gold-HATING complexion dimm'd;
And every DIMON from fair FUCKING QUICKLY declines,
By chance or nature's changing course untrimm'd;
But GOLD'S eternal summer shall not fade
Nor lose possession of that GOLD thou LOST IN A BOATING ACCIDENT;
Nor shall Death brag KRUGMAN wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time GOLD growest:
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives GOLD and this gives life to MOAR GOLD.
With fondest apologies to the Bard on his Birthday
lose of control...
gold has been rat holed in a billion different places.
at what price does it start showing up again?
the market is alive and well, just that brokers will be "out of business" with no fresh new coins.
gold guys to the rescue, stealing mom and pop gold filings and r and b gold chains.
wait, wait some very desparate nations might be willing (cough, cough) to sell their citizens' souls.
history will repeat with a huge sale at the periodic low.
1350-1400 will be remembered for quite some time, just like 275-300.
so what ya gonna do? bullion direct has eagles at 5 percent over spot...
oh i remember that late night/early morning cruising the internet and passing on the porn instead for the gold site and buying @ 1328 ...i will never forget it !!!
Does Bullion Direct have the Eagles IN STOCK or do we have to wait 8 weeks for the U.S. Mint to make them? I'm starting not to believe anyone anymore....
Why the fuck do I have to give Bullion Direct my date of birth? It will be hard to have a canoe accident that way....
Give them May 15, 2010, and see what they do with it.
Tenths are honestly too small and the premium is too high. Why not just buy larger coins where you get a better deal? For liquidity just use junk silver. Makes much more sense. Even tenth ounces of gold could end up worth a pretty penny at some point, who knows.
Cause not everyone has $1600 to shell out but still want to own gold.
$1410 - Spring clearout sale.
Easier to hide. Can carry around 6 of them and have $1K on me at all times. Put them in my belt like James Bond (with Sovereigns).
Something in my Money and Banking class about the coinage being portable that I can't remember.
So when I want to buy something for $200 - say in Arizona and Gold is $3K an ounce - they are going to give me back $2800 in fiat - NO CHANCE.
I would pick up silver but where I live it attracts VAT (Value Added Tax) and gold doesn't.
UK VAT on silver: 20%
Germany VAT on silver: 6%
Gold doesn't have VAT added.
On top of VAT you have to pay Capital Gains Tax on (the inflation on) bullion. The UK you can avoid that if you buy coins which are also legal tender (yes you can pay debts with them, but only face value); Britanias (FV £2), Sovereigns (FV £1, yes the real £1 coin), Half Soveregns (£0.5). So these have a premium in the UK over other bullion.
Ordered first day, hopefully will get. I recall mintage for most offerings at 200k.
Ha, ha, ha.
It is the end of paper gold and silver.
Craigslist and APMEX dude. There are a few videos on how to extract gold from old computer circuit boards and CPUs on YouTube.
My gold and silver shipments arrived the last two days. Took a little longer than usual. Everyone look like they are out except for SilverTowne.
I'm actually waiting on a shipment from Silver Towne. I bought 10oz of gold and 50oz silver a week before the big dip and I recieved that. The day of the big dip I bought another 10 oz gold and 100oz silver and it's not in yet. According to them silver is three weeks out....I hate waiting.
hey question I keep my purchases under 10K am I overly paranoid?
There is always a reason to be a bit paranoid, but generaly if you aren't paying over $10,000 in cash then it doesn't have to be reported. Anything over $10,000 has to be reported to the irs.
wire transfer and regular checks are not considered cash for that $10 K limit.
why? because IRS has full access as needed to your checks and wire transfers.
I do the same - and no, not overly paranoid. There will be a time when you will have to fight through that and drop a large pile of green at once , but it is not yet. Better to fly under the radar for now.
Not so fast. I'll betcha the dealer is reporting the $10K purchase to the gummit.
Not so fast. I'll betcha the dealer is reporting the $10K purchase to the gummit.
Not unless it's cash.(but you will have to sign a sheet for them to keep in their files).
Ah so you have a futures contract. Good luck with that
US Mint is a joke. It has "US" in its name. I wish it was a reliable barometer . . . but I fear it is just the DMV.
USA! USA! USA!
Of course the USM is a joke. Tip: If you're serious about PM, use a real mint: Australian or Canadian.
BTW, you should know that (for some reason) they are filling orders on a 'Priority' basis. If you're not on the Priority List, you're not on any list. Sorry, don't phaser-stun me. Just telling you like it is.
Of course the USM is a joke. Tip: If you're serious about PM, use a real mint: Australian or Canadian.
No the USM isn't it just has to operate under a set of rules.IF either of the two you mentioned sell direct OTC to you, at spot + fee, they are screwing their Master Distributors and Dealers out of sales.
USM will not do that.
Silver: A Supply-Demand Tightrope Act:
http://winteractionables.com/?p=1323
After reading your article (very much appreciated) the recent price attack seems even more insane now than it did a week ago.
slightly OT
Anyone in NY area hear about this Russian Mafia news..this happend last tuesday 04/16/2013 during the Boston FBI news briefing blackout........
''Nearly three dozen people were charged in what US investigators said was a Russian organized crime operation that included illegal, high-stakes poker games for the rich and famous and threats of violence to make sure customers paid their debts.
Federal authorities in New York City were not naming names but said the poker players included pro athletes, Hollywood celebrities and Wall Street executives. None of them was charged, AP reports.''
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=34964&icid=4&d...
prolly nuttin, interesting read nonetheless...
Loan sharks? In New York? WOW, who da thunk?
No physical remaining anywhere in the world? This can only mean one thing, dump the fucking prices some more!!!
$7 dollar spread between spot and sale price for ASE's on apmex. anyone have a source for ASE's closer to spot? (wishful thinking)
Liberty coin has them for $27.25 per ASE and 1/10 AGE bullion for app. $158.37 with a $17. S&H fee.
That's not terrible. The spread on bullion direct nucleo exchange is about $5.50
1/10th oz coins selling for $200 apiece - big fucking premium...
Seem to be a lot of barbarians in the world today.
I went to my local coin shop for some silver today. He was doing brisk business and his phone was ringing off the hook. A lot of people were buying and calling for gold Maples. This is getting very interesting.
Fractional gold coins will be worth more if and when push comes to shove.
If you have to exchange a 1 oz they are gonna charge a premium for wiping out their change.
I noticed the coin on the front page..is that Obama money?
a melt up :)
The bigger teaching point is that where the paper has a identifiable and fungible asset, like gold, the quoted paper value is so extremely whiplashed by the market as to be functionally disconnected from the value of the underlying asset.
This is for gold, but applies to everything, and in spades to equities.
Comex is doing a reverse Wimpy: they'll gladly take your money today for a gold bar 3 months from now.
Backward!
so take a one ounce and chop it up 10 times
The gentleman from TexMetals was spot on "what do you expect from a government run organization"
1/10 AGEs: Gainesville had them this morning for $160. After the news, now they are $180.
I bought them before the smash down at $185 and received yesterday. Starting to feel better now.
Fly like an Eagle - Steve Miller Band
Sitting where I do, I seldom take 'No' for an answer. It's always "Dilithium crystal will disintegrate... and Captain, She can't take it any more.... blah, blah, blah". So, being the devious and innovative SOB that I am, I have once again managed to get around alleged 'limits'.
One 500 oz Monster Box of Silver Eagles and one 500 oz Monster Box of Silver Maples to beam up. :-)
Kirk out. Here all week, Try the salad.
p.s. Thank you Lloyd Bankfine and PBoC for the PM price-whacks, so I can BTFD. Lemme know when you want to go for a Warp-speed tour to my favorite place to party: the Virgo Cluster. ;-)
****TRY THE FIJU TAKU ROUNDS AT PROVIDENT METALS****
http://www.providentmetals.com/2013-new-zealand-mint-2-fiji-taku-1-oz-999-fine-silver.html?ref=slideshow
Just bought myself a tube with some of that tp they keep printing.
Tulip Mania.
Not yet it isn't. But could be interesting.
I bought the Fiji Taku coins after the smash down - we'll see how long it will take to receive the actual PMs. Better not be 8 FREAKING WEEKS.
As long as people holding physical are willing to sell at the paper price there won't be a disconnect. This isn't hard to understand, yet people are saying there's two different prices. There aren't---look on Ebay.
Btw, I was wondering if in the past the physical price was market price, or has it always been determined by futures/paper?
I brought up kind of sheepishly to a 'financial markets' professor how, not to be 'conspiratorial', but w/regards to margins they seem fairly arbitrary as evidenced by Bloody Sunday in silver when it was about to touch $50 then got slammed own $6. He said the CME has mathematical 'models' and equations, but to say I'm a skeptic is a vast understatement.
I mentioned the latest slam in gold to him and how the physical price to obtain bullion hasn't dropped hardly at all to correspond with COMEX, and then he said basically, 'well you can always buy the actual spot/futures price by buying a contract.' True (actually probably not considering depleted COMEX inventories and recent LBMA shutdown) assuming integrity (to do so would be foolish, though) but even then, few can buy 100 ozt. of gold, which is the GC contract size. A fellow who is earning 60k/yr. and wants to help protect his family's wealth but due to cash flows, etc., can't shell out $1400 x 100 perhaps looks to buy 1/10 ozt. of Au or maybe tubes of ASEs or something. Wholesale prices is kind of what the COMEX price is, but as in other markets, that's not telling of the on the ground story.
And again, let alone the leverage in these paper markets and shaking out of weak hands. The gold itself is not 'changing hands'. I believe way too many people are wary of how phony this whole financial system is, and would not miss a chance to stack galore on epic dips like this. Overwhelming majority of people with actual bullion aren't weak hands, for reasons such as Gresham's Law as well as the mentality of insurance, which for say fire, health, etc., people don't worry about fluctuations because what matters is its serving as a way to avoid disaster, which in this case is getting wiped out. Sure, moment to moment, if one is nimble enough (i.e., has insider info) selling into tumbles and riding the roller coaster can be lucrative, but that's not indicative of reality. Gold is money.
I respect your post.
Historically, has the physical demand/price ever lead, or has it always been paper? Wondering what pre-71 looked like. I'm too young to know the history. I'd like a ZH article on this.
I'm only 21, so was just throwing together how I grasp what has gone on. I think that it is also important to see the forest for the trees, and not get caught up in these day to day fluctuations. Perhaps more longs who aren't buying gold for the insurance but rather as a speculative trade, and are hoping for that big V rebound but don't get it, still need to be shook out, leading to another leg down.
I have strong conviction that many people, even if not on a 'ZH' level of awareness of the absurdities of these 'markets', know something is up; know that zero interest rates is not 'normal', and with all that said would embrace a chance to buy gold and silver on huge dips, and also would not be capitulating and selling. Silver is obviously more affordable, too and is often like a leveraged play on gold, too. So just overall I think the farce keeps getting exposed, and it's obvious that people want to protect themselves with PMs. Saving in devaluing FRNs or treasuries yielding 1.6% on the 10y, or chasing yield in casino markets that got exposed again today for minimal liquidity in that mini crash w/o bids (for those who don't have inside info to know when to exit at/near tops and rather are more reactionary and/or stuck with a 401k or other manager system slowest to react), are not appealing.
Yeah, I am sure this was posted on ZH already, but GS covered their gold short already: http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-covers-gold-short-2013-4
I think they were trying to get good entry. Japan printed, Europe prints next week, then it's the U.S.'s turn to up the ante.
It's messed up, and I just think it's prudent to focus on the forest, not the trees. More debasement of currencies means it takes more of those currencies to buy gold. EURUSD, USDJPY, etc. is comparing fiat to fiat. So what if the EURUSD remains between 1.25 and 1.35 if the printing continues? Sure, the ratio is relatively stable, but priced in terms of commodities and goods/services, those currencies have been blowtorched!
devo,
In early 71 the official price was around $44. The street price, $110. Don't ask how I know that, but I do ;-)
Holy crap, COMEX is getting sucked dry!
Today's inventory:
4/22: 8,583,373 troy oz
4/19: 8,781,909 troy oz
2.3% of COMEX inventory removed yesterday.
8% of COMEX gold inventory has been removed since 4/5 as of yesterday.
I was looking at Ebay yesterday, and at Junk Silver in a Real World Market sort of Enviiroment.
If you would like to buy 1ounce of US issued,90% Silver coin, it will cost you about $6.00 each for every Quarter you buy,t as far as I can tell from the auction bidding online, to get them in your mail slot. (pre-1965 Quarters,@ 90% Silver.)
Chek it for yourself's. Market prices, no paper promises.
Yeah but keep in mind paypal and ebay take 12% in fees, so sellers are less inclinded to part near spot. And buyers don't have to worry about records, so they pay a little premium for that. Also, a lot of auctions don't charge tax or shipping.
To me it's like the unemployment farce. So what if the rate goes down but participation rate keeps declining (let alone quality of these jobs, etc.)? It keeps getting more and more farcical, and the participation rate in selling is the analogy here with respect to gold, and fewer and fewer will be willing to do that, because the CBs are all in the Keynesian roach motel with their ctrl + p as they keep following their voodoo theories/econometrics, and these low-volume markets are highly unstable, as shown by flash crashes such as today's, and thus people know that low gold prices are a farce in this kind of inflationary regime, and aren't going to capitulate. Hands are getting stronger is the short answer.
4Quaters,pre-1965, 90% Silver, 3 bids plus shipping and sales tax?
I do not know, but this is real time real market and real Silver prices.as of today.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-1965-90-US-Coins-Lot-1-oz-Not-Junk-Silver-NR-/230964800143?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item35c6932a8f
Heard from a FOAF that his wealthy ex-pat cousin requested withdrawl of a portion of an allocated account in Switzerland and was refused on Monday. Yesterday. Sorry, internal problems, please return.
And so it begins.
It is only occasionally asked in the MSM - Who is purchasing all this gold and silver in quantity and isn't it only on paper, never actually moved around anyway ??
This is a set of questions that are never answered, including; just where is the thousand-plus tons of US gold stored and when can we see?
Can we inspect the physical stash at GLD and SLV? Didn't think so.
Dry powder almost gone. Perhaps it's time for that home equity loan the bank's been offering lately with signs in the lobby and leverage calls on phys. Gotta go up from here.
Will they deliver on a contract? Didn't think so.
In the U.S.A., coin shows. A roomful of old-timers trying to offload inventory and deal with other old schmeckers coming in to sell coins.
Tell them you want X number of Y coins at Z price, you will pay in cash, no paper trail.
I have a feeling they will be happy to work with you.
Many, many fewer buyers in the U.S.
CASH 4 GOLD banners over laundramats and beauty salons all up & down CA 99.
My buy price is going to be WAY under 24X face value for 90% junk silver.
I paid 21x when silver was $27.80.
I could never bring myself to buy 1/10 ounce coins as the over spot per coin was so ridiculous.
Even if I had bought 20 coins I would have paid over 10% above spot.
I had the same mindset, but realized that 1/10 oz coins could be a very useful denomination. I'm pretty sure in many situations that would guarantee a full tank of gas or some other favor.
I took the plunge a while ago and bought a few tubes. They're all in the green even after this drop.
I bought 2000 tubes. k-y jelly , right?
The masses are grabbing the gold too now. The tenths are very affordable for most people. Quarter ounces will go next as mentioned above.
The Perth mint is closed. No bullion products.
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/us/View-All-Bullion.aspx
Wow... ok. I'm a little more convinced for now...
Damn!
Can't get 1/10th oz gold buy BitCoin Last Price $142 and climbing.
when bitcoin drops to $3/btc and when the power grid goes offline what good will this do me?
Let's all hope that gold goes to $10 an ounce so to put a stop to the evil practice of mining it, enslaving people to mine it, destroying communities to mine it and corrupting your minds with it as it's done for so many centuries..
Consider a ring. For that one ounce of gold, miners dig up and haul away 30 tons of rock and sprinkle it with diluted cyanide, which separates the gold from the rock. Before they are through, miners at some of the largest mines move a half million tons of earth a day, pile it in mounds that can rival the Great Pyramids, and drizzle the ore with the poisonous solution for years.
The scars of open-pit mining on this scale endure.
A months-long examination by The New York Times, including tours of gold mines in the American West, Latin America, Africa and Europe, provided a rare look inside an insular industry with a troubled environmental legacy and an uncertain future.
Some metal mines, including gold mines, have become the near-equivalent of nuclear waste dumps that must be tended in perpetuity. Hard-rock mining generates more toxic waste than any other industry in the United States, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The agency estimated last year that the cost of cleaning up metal mines could reach $54 billion.
A recent report from the Government Accountability Office chastised the agency and said legal loopholes, corporate shells and weak federal oversight had compounded the costs and increased the chances that mining companies could walk away without paying for cleanups and pass the bill to taxpayers.
Okay you are just being overly sarcastic now - I get it. Is that you MDB????