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"Panic" For Physical Gold Spreads To UK Where Royal Mint Sales Of Gold Coins Triple
Following the entire "developing" world (where faith in paper money "backed" by $1 quadrillion in derivatives is at times questioned, and instead the people, for some inexplicable reason, fall back to hard currency equivalents) scrambling out to their local precious metal dealers to find "out of gold" signs virtually everywhere, yesterday it was the US Mint's turn to announce it had halted shipments of the popular one-tenth ounce gold American Eagle coin as it had run out, following a surge in demand (we expect this shortage will soon spread widely to traditional one-ounce denominations shortly).
Things in the US have gotten so bad, not only are most online dealers backlogged weeks and months in advance for most PMs (as the CEO of Texas Precious Metals explained in detail), but respected bullion vaults are also now on the verge of running out of inventory. As Reuters described, "Michael Kramer, president of Manfra, Tordella & Brookes (MTB), a major U.S. coin dealer in New York, has been inundated by orders from existing and new wholesale and retail customers. "It's panic. This is one of the busiest times in quite a while. People think gold's at the lows and they want to take advantage."
It was only a matter of time before the last bastion of paper money, London, also succumbed to the soaring demand for physical, and sure enough moments ago Bloomberg reported that the "Britain’s Royal Mint, established in the 13th century, sold more than three times more gold coins this month than a year earlier as prices declined."
Sales are more than 150 percent higher than last month, according to Shane Bissett, director of bullion and commemorative coin at the Royal Mint.
“Since the dip in the price of gold we have seen increased demand for our gold bullion coins from the major coin markets, and this presently shows no sign of abating,” Bissett said by e-mail in response to questions from Bloomberg. “The Royal Mint continues to supply to its customers and is increasing production to accommodate the higher demand.”
Its not only the UK Mint, but a pervasive global "panic" to get as much gold as possible while prices are as low as they are, courtesy of the recent takedown in spot.
Standard Chartered Plc said yesterday its gold shipments to India last week exceeded the previous record by 20 percent and were double the total of the week before.
“The concern is really how long it can last,” said Dan Smith, an analyst at Standard Chartered Plc. “A lot of people surge in on the low prices and then they are likely to back away a bit as prices rally and they’ve restocked.”
Don't worry, Dan: for now the surge is going on, and on, and on, and so on. We will be sure to inform you, however, when physical demand is finally satisfied. Until then, we have several months of backlogged demand to catch up on, and possibly the default of one or two depositories in the meantime.
Finally, for all those confused by the non-linear relationship between paper gold (selling via ETFs and other), and physical gold (buying via retail and corporate channels), here is Bank of America with a quick and dirty summary of how to think about the relationship:
With prices now below $1,500/oz, we expect a pick-up in jewellery demand in the medium term and see considerable pain for miners should prices dip below $1,200/oz. As such, we believe the downside to gold prices may be limited to an additional $150/oz. In fact, we estimate that jewellery demand may become so pronounced by 2016 that prices could trade above $1,500/oz even if investors remain net sellers. Looking at sensitivities from a different angle, investors would need to buy merely 600t of gold to sustain prices at $2,000/oz by 2016, compared to non-commercial purchases of 1,798t in 2012.
So yes - physical demand can and will offset even virtually unlimited paper selling, assuming of course demand for physical persists at the recent pace.
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Amen.
I'm not sure whether the disingenuous man hopes to secure a boat all for himself or to beat the world record for swimming in open ocean. I really hope it is the latter and I would wish him good luck in that case.
If the former is the case, then he will hopefuly realize that he is trying to rock a 160 000 ton boat. Careful not to fall off board!
And here I thought we were going to have a pleasant, pud-free day, and enjoy a gold thread among right-thinking folks....CB
And what would these children be doing if they didn't have a chance to work in gold? Would they starve? Would their familly starve because the child is providing the only income? Any data on that, Pud?
Oh so why don't we bring back slavery then? What a stupid fucking thing to say
IIRC you believed Yanacocha (Peru) was a huge problem. And, yes, gold mining, even with "good" environmental controls, is a dirty business.
I can hardly wait for your comments on Peruvian gold mining when the Chinese mines come on-line. And they will be. A few details buried within this:
http://tinyurl.com/apttqe2
Don't try to put words in my mouth. You want to keep children out of the gold processing business. Fine. But like most do-gooders, you don't stop to consider the secondary effects. When asked for actual data, you provide none and resort to insults. That isn't the way to convince anyone that your position is correct.
You are wrong in a way that is inexcusable. Your beliefs have been refuted long time ago, and even in the information age you are still unable to find the truth. Start by watching "Free to choose" by Milton Friedman and videos on youtube with his Q&A with students from the 70's.
Yes, you read that correct, I advise you to hear the truths Milton Friedman said (not his views related to monetary policy).
Slavery is alive and well.
Pudwhacker:
If you actually believe the shit you post, then you deserve the taste of the whip on your back......
( if nothing else than for boring us to death)
They would be doing exactly the same job for Chinese masters but trashing the environment at twice the toxicity and receiving only half the pay... Sounds like a win-win for the overlords.
And unless you're a Vegan, you're complicit with cruelty to animals. Blah, blah, blah.
Your theme is getting old. Give it a rest or come up with a new theme, you Attention Whore.
Truth is hard to deal with isn't it?
For you, quite evidently.
You are missing the fact that gold is the commodity with by far the highest stock to flow ratio. A position in physical gold barely transfers any wealth to any immoral miners (who are probably hedged in the paper market anyway, so they waive profits from price rises for the benefit of somebody else!). In fact, it transfers very little wealth to any present day miners. Holding gold is a cooperative effort between all the people of the world, of all times, present, past and future who believe that gold is a good form of money. By holding gold I am paying much more respect to the brave men and women who discovered new lands (and thus inevitably new sources of gold, since gold is distributed in a very balanced way across the world, and maybe even the universe) than to any immoral people who, in any case, are actually redeeming themselves by working for the very moral cause of gold money.
What happens to the kids if they can't work the mines? Are there alternatives? If they could do something else, I imagine that they would. Perhaps its better if they starve to death and embrace a quick end to their misery. Unfortunately, the world can be a hard place.
Awww, now every time you flush the toilet, start your car, fire up the PC, etc...you are complicit PUD, get off your high en mighty horse already!
lol - good one.
Notice how libtards around the world always complain about these types of things, but they never do anything about it personally... nothing more than armchair pontification.
Two things you may consider:
1. Gold demand is skyrocketing BECAUSE of central bank printing - not some random gold lust out of nowhere.
2. Massive (endless) money printing exports inflation to the poorest of the poor in developing nations. The children you are worried about are literally being starved to death by money printing. When 70% of your income already goes to food and prices spike what do you think happens? Starvation, riots, and disease is what happens.
Know who your real enemy is and take your fight there.
that does not give you moral authority to condone and participate in an evil act does it?
Hi PUD,
how do you see silver and platinum. Given their industrial use, some of which is for improving the enviroment, such as in catalytic converts, do you also suggest we silver hoarders are villains? Or is this limited to the yellow metal?
If you have no actual use for it you have no business hoarding anything
Extend that to food and I will starve come the first famine. Given that some day (actually now) I am too ill too work, then I need to store money/resources for the future (called a pension). Or don't you believe in pensions? Hoarding and saving are terms for the same thing.
PUDdle of shit:
1) Who gets to define what I have an actual use for? You? The State? Sounds pretty despotic to me.
2) When does "saving" become "hoarding"? Again, who defines this, and by what standard? Isn't "hoarding" merely a code word for "holding that which those in power wish to steal"?
PUD: "If you have no actual use for it you have no business hoarding anything"
I have absolutely no problem with you holding that opinion, even though I completely disagree with it.
The problem is when people hold such opinions and then use force to try to impose that on others. That's what has caused the Hell of various 'utopian visions' throughout history.
I think he is conflicted - his MSM-copying self is obviously the utopian tyrant but you can disregard it. His other personality is simply trying to convince us that it is not worth it for us to try to use gold as money at all, ever again, because other nascent and future solutions (such as cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin) will be generally better and replace it. They might become better - one day in the future, but certainly not today and not in the next few years. There are many aspects of monetary/currency/credit systems so there will be competition and niches and multiple systems will certainly coexist. We just need to respect other people's favorite forms of money and currency/credit systems, or better yet, diversify. Endorse multiple of them that are generally good (gold, silver, platinum, palladium, Bitcoin) and not try to prematurely lock ourselves to only 1 thing, even at the cost of selling our honesty to a MSM outlet or something like that.
"If you have no actual use for it you have no business hoarding anything"
PUD, I have really never heard a more ridiculous comment here. Unless you produced in value today EXACTLY what you consumed today, then you MUST hoard. (Some people call it "savings".) What else would you do? Give the extra away? Quit your job because you need to spend tomorrow what you have left over? And what if you get sick and cannot work? The main purposes of money are 1) as a medium of exchange, and 2) as a store of value.
I damn near posted my phone number here so you could call me and we could settle this once and for all.
Hey Pud, do you have a car ?
no but if I did it would be because i needed one for my livelihood. I would get a hybrid and only drive what was needed. Even then that would not give me the moral right to dump the oil down storm drains, burn tires on my front lawn or own 25 jet skis....would it?
Dust to dust impact of hybrids are worse than oil burners like a Jeep Wagoneer or Hummer. Where do you think all that Lithium for the batteries comes from, anyway? Mmmmm, Cadmium - there's some good stuff too.
I don't know, but you would then be "participating" in the "evil".
You need a lesson in logic, PUD.
@ PUD:
I'm glad you're concerned about the environment: for what it's worth, we're running out of breathable air. Please help us conserve air, by putting a plastic bag over your head.
Did you vote for Obama Pud? Then you support the mass killings of innocents by drones, arms deals and money to instigate government coups and to fight "terrorism.". But my guess you will not answer for it will show the hypocrisy of who you really are.
My kids are looking for a job. Do you have an address?
I hear in some of those loser countries you can support a kid for like $50 bucks a month. Why not send them over there? I saw an ad on this site a few days ago but didn't get the address.
You and your indiscriminate copy-pasta again?
Quote from PUD, Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:03:
So you seem to be so confident in what about a dozen different MSM outlets say, that you just copy their writings (but at the same time don't respect them enough to give them credit... hmmm)?
No, i read actual reports done by universities, gov agencies, private watch dog groups etc
You are conflicted.
PUD, Sat, 04/20/2013 - 20:58:
You publicly endorsed here the agenda of a dozen-odd public universities, government agencies, private watchdog groups and corporate media outlets. You put their words in your own mouth. They are part of the status quo. The paper money creators are just one branch of the status quo: there is the paper money branch, paper investments branch, news paper branch, science paper branch, paper morals branch, identity paper branch, physical fucking in the ass branch, etc. You support one of them - you support them all.
Tylers, PLEASE, punch this fucking PUD in the face and get him the fuck out of here. We're all sick of his one-trick-pony show. We get the point. MOVE ON. BAN HIS ASS!
I buy Canadian gold - mined in Canada, refined in Canada, minted in Canada.
so what? did they make it from daisies? or an open pit mine using chemicals and tailings ponds full of toxins?
Your original objection was OMG think of the kids. No kids involved in Cdn gold mining. So now you want to know IF there are open pit mines with toxin laden ponds. You don't specifically know.
You are busted. You are objecting just to be objectionable. Troll.
He/she/it doesn't remember/process which of the dozen MSM articles he/she/it copied for this post and what theme it had.
No, PUD, he only buys what he needs. Same logic you use to justify driving a car if you had a job to go to.
Finally someone in Asia, Africa, and South America doing something about the youth unemployment situation.
Why do you hate jobs?
Jesus - PUD - STFU.
If your worried about child labor go to a farm in California during picking season. Otherwise, get over it. The world is a rough place and it's going to get a lot rougher in the US very soon as the reelection of Obama has brought our chance of a true economic recovery 0.00% over the next two or three decades.
Kids in the US should learn how to make 'small-scale mines' because the US Government has mandated a good education out of existence, regulated small businesses out of existence, debased our currency out of existence, and taxed our middle class out of existence.
Now, the value of a good day of hard work has been downgraded to something only rich white people should have to do. Everyone else - go get your Obama phone, your housing vouchers, your SNAP food stamps, etc.
Everything in the US (other than gold) is becoming free, but only if you promise not to work and to take the money handouts. It doesn't matter if you are Fisker or the average lazy shit found all over parent's basements countrywide. However, it's the parent's generation that has fucked everyone under 50 out of every dime.
The politicians are in final money grab mode. You should be too.
Oh, and PUD, you have an eponymous name.
T-r-a-n-s-i-t-o-r-y.
I hear her royal majesty the Queen is also buying this dip.
OK, since you mentioned the QUEEN, her majesty, I must present the most insipid, yet, argument-inspiring debate of recent time. If you had the choice between being married to Madonna foreva, or getting one BJ from the Queen, which would you take? Upvote for Madonna, Downvote for the Queen's BJ.
F yeah. Zero Hedge pointing out to the National Association of Realtors what pent up demand really looks like..
Bankster deer in the headlights time - it seems they have no answer for this, except default.
Moar QE will resolve this situation.
Wonder Twin powers activate! Form of liquidity! Shape of fiat!
For the non geeks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktUx57i63e0
This can't be true in the least, all these gold conspiracists and nut jobs thinking that actual shortages exist. Just ask Mish the Shedlock, cause that's his take on these overblown matters. Not that he's actually or obviously listened to what these companies are saying, because the Mishmeister knows better than those who run the actual companies. Wholda thunk it.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.ca/2013/04/us-mint-runs-out-of-sm...
bad luck brian:
buys gold coins at 1400.
a few years later government stets its price at 140 dollars and starts confiscating it - making it illegal to own privately.
lol
gold is everything else than a sureshot. if you want some bang for your buck buy some lands, or some real estate and rent it for some money.
i once was a gold fan BUT it is only a stupid metal who nobody really needs. it just sits there in your safe and does nothing. there is no real physical demand except for greedy investors and jewlery. if i would buy some precious metal then it would be silver. there is at least a soaring demand for it. gold gets recycled everywhere. and 1400 / ounce is still NOT dirt cheap. 300 bucks was.
Troll. Fail....
LOL...the government says that pot is illegal, too. How many people do you know who turn their pot in to the police?
Exactly JJ - Thats why Germany wants their gold back from the US Fed / Treasury. The stupid Germans just want it in THEIR safe ...doing nothing.
The German might be greedy, but they don't wear much jewelry.
that's some kind of stupid there Apeman
Amazing. No comment.
c
The Federal Reserve Charter expires on December 31, 2013 at 11:59 P.M.
After that, the Illusion and deception can continue. It must be voted on by Congress. Will they re cerifiy the Charter?
Well, they passed it the first time before a Christmas Holiday.
Will this be a TBTF Bank Holiday or Fasle Flag Re Certification Federal Reserve Charter to continue the Illusion?
“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
? Frank Zappa
Are you seriously entertaining the notion that Con-gress will not recertify the Fed's charter?
I'm pretty sure it was extended. That organization needs to change dramatically. Else it needs to be 'encouraged' to end its mission, mandate, and operations.
I told you yesterday that the federal reserves charter does not end.It was originally a twenty year charter ,but then it was extended indefinitely in 1927. It is a perpetual charter that can only go away if congress strips it away or if they forfeit the franchise by violating the law.Since the bankers own congress and make the laws, that isn't going to happen.
"they forfeit the franchise by violating the law.Since the bankers own congress and make the laws, that isn't going to happen."
Isn't that known as the 'Corzine Clause' now?
Is it only me or is Stockcharts.com not accessible?
"So yes - physical demand can and will offset even virtually unlimited paper selling, assuming of course demand for physical persists at the recent pace."
no it will not - this site is accurate about everything except the gold price
there is No Sign Of A Bottom For Gold
http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/2013/04/no-sign-of-bott...
If the theory goes that dumping paper brought this drop in price in gold, you would be foolish to rush in right now. What would be more devastating to goldbug psychology than another enormous hit on gold? I own gold and would like some more, but I believe we are watching lambs rush into the slaughter. Stay focused and patient my friends!
Rush in? At prices any lower than this this won't be any available to rush to. That's the whole point of this discussion.
if you're using the availability of product at the mint as a measure of the availability of gold, then be careful: they are always running out of something.
I have some fysical gold and silver stashed at a safe place. It's the only real money with a proven trackrecord of a few thousands of years. Short term I do some gold trading in paper gold. Fast in and fast out. The profits go in to the cold hard yellow fysical stuff.
Something does not add up. Since the crash down there is story after story of massive, aggressive buying - low or no inventory etc. That does not jive with gold prices not really moving back up. If demand really is that large then you would see the price of gold move back to at least 1500 fairly quickly. Dealers would bid up prices to get inventory. If you have a line of people waiting 2-3 months for coins you can get rid of that by bidding higher and getting inventory - thats the way it works. Since gold is not moving up quickly that tells me that these stories are likely bunk or exaggerated.
If you like gold below 1500, do you really care if you pay 1380 or 1420 or 1450? Usually the answer is no if its an investment - a good price is a good price. If you think its going to 2000 + then all that matters is a good relative price. Since gold is not moving up quickly to the 1500 area that tells me that demand cannot be that high as is stated.
Retail is very small in the gold market when compared to the big players who move tonnes, That will change in the near future as these markets continue to become disjointed. Then you will gold really seperate from the paper price.
Two things, in my opinion, are working against the paper price of gold at the COMEX. First, if it is not evident to most by now it should be, that COMEX cannot promise delivery. And if it cannot promise delivery, then COMEX longs dry up. So, the only traders trading the paper price are uncommitted shorts and longs and of course it still remains an avenue to take paper price lower by another coordinated take down. But the fact is, (and this is number 2), bullion accumulators, coin and jewelry demand, and so on, are all skirting the COMEX and buying their gold elsewhere where it can in fact be acquired, and not promised, or paid back in $USD like the COMEX. My thought is that the COMEX is becoming increasingly irrelevant. In other words, gold could go to $1200, $1100, $900 on COMEX, but, nobody will care. It is a meaningless price (or is becoming increasingly meaningless) as commercial buyers, central banks, seek delivery elsewhere. For example, silver is down around $23 spot. But most places are asking 25% above spot. Its like the price of silver never fell! AT ALL!
Seems to me, silver's real price, has become completely inelastic at $0 - $29 (COMEX spot). That is, COMEX price could go to $3.50, and it will still be $29 or $30 at my bullion dealer, and you're bullion dealer down the street. As long as this diconnect continues (and I beleive it will actually widen), COMEX is going to be dumped or abandoned rather quickly where the MSM will seriosuly have some explaining to do then when everybody is trading $2000 gold, but COMEX is posting $1200.
Gold dealers now know that buying on the Crimex or London is futile as they will not get delivery. What this means for the paper markets I don't know. Where the gold is to come from, to fill the retail demand I also don't know. But it should be a wild ride.
Fiat money is THE Bubble. And the USD is the fiat to end all fiats.
"Tiny bubbles, in the wine. Make me happy, make me feel fine". - Don Ho, singer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEFD_odvUg
Lineups might be forming for bullion coins the world over because only some governments tax the sale of bullion, meaning people are transferring their savings into bullion.
Tell people you are taking money they leave in a bank account. Devalue what money they are able pull out or are forced to leave in. Then have a bank, ABN AMRO, default on the gold it owes its customers. Thern ram down the paper price as if the COMEX is about to default. I'd say the panic is just getting started.
And lets not forget the panic to get your gold out of the GLD which is losing 10-20 tons daily on physical redemptions.
Best option is to hold the real thing and keep it out of the banking system.
Fascinating how physical sales are going through the roof and pricing is down... what ever happened to that law of supply and demand?
Just another confirmation of the disconnect between the physical and paper market.
PUD,
I would like to sincerely congratulate you on providing us with an excellent preview of the kind of anti-gold propaganda that will be used in the future by TPTB to Nationalise filthy environmentally dangerous gold mines and confiscate the barbarous yellow relic. I'm sure we'll each be allowed a 2-3oz "jewellery allowance" to sweeten the pill.
Many thanks again
Some fancy conspiracy you have going on in your head there. The facts remain as i have presented them. Gold brings nothing but harm to the world at large. You can choose to not give a shit but I choose otherwise
I don't give a shit.
That makes you a very evil man too. I feel sorry for the people in your life if you have any.
Not evil. Apathetic.
That is worse than evil
Why?
Because I won't march to your drum?
Who cares about your grievances? Not me, I couldn't give a shit.
Troll vs. Troll. +100
Fuck You!!
@ParkAveFlasher
+1000 Way cool dude!
You forgot to mention that gold mining is immoral because it causes inflation and debases the value of every ounce of previously mined gold.
So what doesn't bring harm to the world at large? What good are you? What have you ever done but suck all the fun out of a room? You've never produced a nickel's worth of good for anybody. Sitting around crabbing is not a contribution to world peace no matter what you think. So why don't you kill yourself and put us all out of your misery?
touched a nerve eh?
Putz.
PUDtz
"...People think gold's at the lows and they want to take advantage."
Does that mean we're going to have another price smackdown?
yes most likely we are
I have to agree, but it's doubtful that there will be much physical to buy
One can only hope!
It's pretty clear they are not going to allow holders of paper gold to convert into the real thing and take delivery.
Cash settlements is a clear signal there is not enough metal to go around.
If I had paper positions I would take the cash and use it to buy back into physical... while the price is down and while the physical is still available.
Now that's one handsome devil!
most of us here are gold lovers, but if this was any other commidity/stock. We would be saying this is textbook bubble activity. perhaps the disconnect between paper and physical markets is the only thing keeping the price down.
Gold is off $500 from the high. How is the lowest price in 2 years a bubble? If it was a bubble it burst in August 2011 when gold peaked at $1927. It is now $500 an ounce lower. So where is the bubble?
The "bubble" is from ETF/paper investment. There are 2 markets...physical and paper. The paper market created a bubble that the physical has suffered from. This is what makes gold/silver investment so tricky. There's no way to determine the real value of an asset/commodity/security when the demand is generated from 2 different markets for two totally different reasons. The physical buyers want to keep it and speculators want to trade the volitility. So depending on your idea of "value" gold is a good buy or a bad investment at these levels. I've said all along that gold/silver investment is a little hazy because of the paper market influence on the spot/future price and investing capital in physical can get dicey because you really dont know what the true value of gold is until the paper influence is removed. ETF's and other investment vehicles total about 80 million ounces or so... maybe more ... which leaves one to wonder how many people invest in paper gold because its easier and more liquid to invest in PM that way than actually pay the premiums for owning the physical and be in charge of storing/protecting it. What if the US governnment dumped about 2 million ounces onto the open market to quell whatever demand frenzy existed and beat the price down. They could. And I wouldnt put it past them.
Meanwhile, back at the Crimex the inventory of gold in the warehouse declined by 2.3% more yesterday.
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/nymex-delivery-notices.html
I purchase my yellow and silver stuff from antiques auctions, In this area the demand above spot is slack, No urgency to catch the lower prices or anything, Sovs was in strong demand and sold over spot but everything else just adjusted to the new normal.
Things here in the UK are just going on quietly as I see it, But for how long before TSHTF could be anytime so keep stacking.
the soonest i will see the 100oz. Ag i ordered last week is going to be May 15th. And that's *if* they can ship me the entire 100 i ordered..
I have been wrong so many times before about investing hard-earned money but it really does look like gold will go parabolic due to the clear lack of trust in governments around the world.
You know I've been in the bullion deal for quite awhile and I have to say, it's a shame I haven't recorded some of the BS the I've heard come from coin dealers' mouths. People should realize their main source of profit is when some old geezer dies and leaves an immaculate coin collection to his heirs who walk into a coin shop and sell it for a tiny fraction of what it's worth. Everyone knows the scruples of these con artists.
Having said that, now we have a guy in New York named Michael Kramer on record as saying there's a panic for gold. For shits and giggles I would love to hear what he says if someone called him right now and said they wanted to sell 5 tubes of 2013 Canadian gold maples. He'd no doubt give a song and dance about the great uncertainty and then offer to pay 97%.
Five reasons that gold is a loser - MarketWatch.com
http://www.marketwatch.com/Story/story/print?guid=3770D7C6-173E-4ACE-9895-99B84FEF3EE9
Marketwatch... LOLZ!
No. 1: Gold has likely topped - So let's see. It was just smacked down over $200 and it's topped?
No. 2: Speculating isn’t investing - If Buffett buys and holds a stock long term then that's investing? If you buy and hold gold long term then that's speculating?
No. 3: Doesn’t produce income - It's money. It's not supposed to produce income. It only preserve present wealth into the future
No. 4: Poor long-term returns - See answer to No.3 above
No. 5: Gold timers miss - 5000 years as money means nothing?
If it doesnt produce a dividend then its speculating. Investing involves being paid to hold the stock. You don't just make money off of capital appreciation, you actually get paid a dividend. Speculating involves buying an asset that does not generate a dividend. The only way you make money is from increase in stock price (or the increase in price of gold for example). This is why Buffett turns his nose up at gold and says it doesnt produce anything. He wants to own assets that produce and generate cash flow...profits...dividends...growth... simply owning gold is a trap because your stuck trying to figure out how much its worth and its near impossible to determine because it doesnt generate anything of value. All it is is a store of value which is why your portfolio should only contain about 10% gold. Because its speculation not an investment. But, it is also insurance against our government and poor monetary policy. But to own all gold and silver is crazy.
And if you put money in a stock that goes to zero because the company went bankrupt, is that investing or speculating?
When a bunch of crooks manipulate LIBOR, The stock market, etc, and you invest with them is that investing or speculating?
Speculate - Invest in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with the risk of loss.
Invest - Expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result
By definition it looks like speculators are more intelligent than investors since speculators realize that there is a possibility of losing.
So large drops in price mean big shorts and large rises mean big longs. Watching this price is becoming increasingly useless in valuing physical:
http://www.goldprice.org/
It's to the point where it's just not believable.
Looks like the new game in town is not "Where's Waldo?" but "Where's my gold?"... Psst, only the Shadow knows...
Who gives a shit about gold?
Not me.
It's just another thing to trade.
your loss : you will find if you trade out of gold you can’t trade back into it. Gold is not a trade, gold is a holding for generations. Paper tickets for asset claims are for trading. Not gold.
No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TmeBd9338
Anyone know if this is factual?
FORMER CME CEO REFUSED PHYSICAL DELIVERY FOR 2 GOLD CONTRACTS!
http://silverdoctors.com/former-cme-ceo-refused-physical-delivery-for-2-gold-contracts/
Signs of extreme physical tightness in the gold and silver markets continue to intensify, with reports of banks and firms refusing their customers physical delivery of their own bullion increasing nearly by the hour.
The latest report comes from the CME’s former CEO Leo Mahlamed, who reportedly was refused delivery of 2 gold contracts Tuesday!
Mahlamed attempted to stand for delivery of 2 April gold contracts (a measly 200 oz), and according to reports from the floor, the CME reportedly refused to physically deliver 200 oz of gold to its former CEO, and would only provide Mahlamed a warehouse receipt!
The music appears to be stopping, and the paper game is up!
Mahlamed is reportedly a CURRENT CME Board Member and Chairman Emeritus of the CME, and was the CME’s CEO from 1969-1993, yet the exchange cannot come up with a measly 200 oz of gold to satisfy the delivery requests of one of it’s own!
It's part of damage control. The CME and bullion banks, having rehypothecated so much gold and silver are doing their darndest to make it painful for anyone to get their PMs out, even the little guys. The jig is almost up (default/force majure/settle in cash). Mine output is way down, nobody wants to sell scrap PMs, and the guys that run the paper market are about to get screwed. Jim Sinclair (Mr. Gold) said on KWN that a good friend of his couldn't get delivery of allocated gold at his Swiss bank. The Swiss bank gave the poor guy a song and dance routine about how they were worried it would be used for money laundering or some such garbage. Andrew McGuire said that the takedown was because the LBME was about to default. The takedown was meant to scare people away from gold, however it's had the opposite effect. I guess the FED is going to be counterfitting alot of cash off it's digital presses real soon as these bulliuon banks, depositories, and exchanges will have to settle in cash as they default.
Basically, the jig is almost up. I'll be buying more silver tommorrow.
In the memorable words of the Mogambo Guru, "Buy gold, silver and Oil...Whee! This investing stuff is easy!"
The miners turned today. Clear and defining bottom here...well...i'll say this...the scared money is out. Solid footing in this area here. Going long (LEAPS) with SLW and junior minors (GDXJ). Also, I find it very strange that the SLV has been laying back here. Perfect spot to buy the May SLV 25 calls and then buy May SLV 22 puts. More upside potential there than downside risk. But buy some insurance in case the SLV lags the miners and gold. Probably a big pop coming in the next day or two.
SLV? One can only guess how many times each ounce is re-hypothecated in iShares Silver Trust.
I suggest you give SIL (Global Silver Miners ETF) a chance. Miners are not free of counterparty risk, but my guess is they're much less crooked than trust ETFs. At least you won't be left holding a worthless bag after some bank defaults.
I bought SLW rather than the SIL. Safer investment I think. Plus, I bought LEAPS so my time horizon is a little longer. I buy/sell the SLV only to play the volitility. Im gonna be in that thing no longer than 2 weeks. I have no interest in having the SLV/GLD/PHYS/PSLV/GDX for longer than a few weeks as I own physical gold and silver for my "investment" but trade the ETF's when the charts scream "BUY" or "SELL". I do actually own SLW and a few other miners for long term holdings in my portfolio but also speculate with some cash when the market looks right.
They can always just decide to lower the price of gold further and not crash the world economic system... or decide to confiscate the gold and pay less value in the new currency (what I think will happen). The gold bugs will get screwed one way or another because they have no control over price.
They can have my PMs after I run out of bullets and crossbow bolts!
They can't have mine since I have already forgotten where I put them
we do control price: we decide what we will sell real gold for and that is the real price. The spot price / comex paper is already now publicly clearly known as not the real price. AND not in control of the prices people really will pay.
Stacked up a few more boxes of marine parts today. One mans slam down is another mans window of opportunity..........
Aint no Sunshines where I go.........
SOLD OUT BITCHEZ!
The Physical PM shortage seems to be adhering to Keynes/Krugman's/Bernanke's "Aggregate Demand" theory quite nicely.
The physical PM demand is globally "aggregating" like a Mo-Fo. Economic prosperity must be right around the corner, bitchez
Too bad these Fuck-tards don't understand that the economy would start improving if they would simply let credit collapse so people could get back to work digging worthless, barbaric relics out of the ground and trading them for fuel, housing, and food.
The jig is almost up! Woe be to the bullion banks, the LBMA, and the Crimex! In the end, it'll be the traders dumping boxes of paper gold/silver futures over the side of the Good Ship Comex like it was the original Boston Tea Party.
Found over at Jesse's. The tentacles are everyfvckingwhere:
"The shareholders of Barrick have rejected the Executive Compensation plan in what has been described as a 'tumultuous meeting.' Good for them.
"It's panic. This is one of the busiest times in quite a while. People think gold's at the lows and they want to take advantage.
Sales are more than 150 percent higher than last month"
so much more sellers? interesting. :D
There is no panic selling since the crash. I have been checking Nucleo Exchange by Bullion Direct for fire sale from the weak hands, nobody lower the ask price. I bought 5 Maple Leaf at almost the bottom from the Catalog instead.
All of this is hype and BS. Nothing has fundamentally changed.
Fun fact:
Ernö Goldfinger was one of post-war Britain’s most prominent architects and designers. Prominent, and notorious. A Jewish-Hungarian émigré, he was one of the leaders of the so-called ‘Brutalist’ movement. Brutalism was essentially a love affair with unadorned cast concrete, and in Goldfinger’s case led to buildings such as the Daily Worker headquarters at Farringdon Rd (a building run by the British Communist party), and the severely sculptural residential high-rises of Balfron Tower and Trellick Tower in London. He was a highly flamboyant character with a love of fast cars, cigars and young women, and was thought by some to be rather a bully: there were stories that he was given to frog-marching uncooperative clients out of his offices. Such character traits, one might have thought, would have made him a hero in the eyes of the creator of James Bond. Instead he ended up as a villain...
Fleming, however, was not pleased. It was a clash of two egos of rather similar size and shape. Fleming (also a womanizer, fast-car lover, occasional bully, etc.) considered getting his revenge by renaming the villain ‘Goldprick’ and inserting a slip into all the books explaining why this had had to be done: eventually he cooled off and the book went to press with the provisos Goldfinger’s solicitors had stipulated.[source]
Which is why the spoof character was called "Gold Member".
Un-PC snark: when you could threaten to call a multi-billionaire a prick in print, and not end up sued to this side of debtor's prison.
First the 'panic' buying of guns & ammo, now of physical pm's....it all makes sense, though you'd never hear anyone in the media or any elected offcials acknowledge that something is quite different this time.
Odd. A comment I posted earlier has gone missing.
Here's what I said, as best I can remember:
When someone deletes a comment, do all replies get deleted as well? Or did some moderator just not like my comment? Or is my ADHD so bad I just can't find it?
http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?name=bitgroin
Thank you.
There's data glitches all over atm [some say due to CISPA, some say due to irritated AI, some say due to MiM attacks]. I lost a good number of bookmarks I know were set (all radical stuff, mind you), YouTube is getting useless due to bad tagging algos / rampant DCMA algo take-downs, and there's probably something out there hunting...
Check your Six Red Leader.
Anyone can tell a good free source for the (paper) gold spot/futures chart, which includes volume?
Tried bloomberg, google finance and yahoo finance. They all suck.
kitco.com - excellent charts.
Re: Yahoo Finance. The.Worst. I'm patiently awaiting the day when Melissa Meyer gets the boot and recognized as the queen bitch failure she is.
OK, I mean this is getting real, now. Just saw an auction on ebay end for a 1943 quarter, a beaten up one at that, so there's probably less than the 90% silver value there, go for $5.10, plus $1.69 shipping. The silver value in that coin, according to coinflation.com, is $4.1757.
So, the winning bidder paid 22.13% over spot, and, if you add in the $1.69 shipping charges, I can't calculate that high, drinking... sorry.
People must be thinking, I've got an extra seven bucks, maybe I should get some silver in case the world ends tomorrow. Wild.In.The.Streets.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-Washington-Quarter-/151030098244?pt=Coins_U...
They can have my PMs when they pry them out of my clenched, tight ass.