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JPMorgan Accounts For 99.3% Of The COMEX Gold Sales In The Last Three Months
Submitted by Mark McHugh from Across The Street
Jamie Dimon Has Issues
When just one firm accounts for 99.3% of the physical gold sales at the COMEX in the last three months it’s not what most of us on this side of the rainbow would consider “broad-based” selling. Of course discovering this kind of relevant information requires an internet connection, 2nd grade math and reading skills, and the desire to do a teeny-weeny bit of reporting. Sadly they’ve wandered so far down the rabbit hole that the concept of “physical demand” (i.e. people actually wanting to take possession of the stuff) is puzzling to them because the vast majority of the world’s so-called “gold-trading” takes place in the realm of make believe (which is their natural habitat). It’s all fun and games until somebody loses their metal and “somebody” has lost one hell of a lot of metal in the last 90 days.
This is the CME Group’s COMEX metals issues and stops year-to-date report, which can be found here everyday for free. It chronicles the physical delivery notices of various metals, including gold. Let’s have a look:
“I” is for “Idiot”
That’s how I remember it, anyway. “I” actually stands for “issues,” meaning the firm parted with its metal (@ 100 troy ounces a shot), and “S” stands for “stops,” meaning the firm took delivery of gold. “C” is for customer accounts, “H” is house accounts. The first thing you should notice is that most transaction net out to zero in a given month (blue boxes), meaning the firm’s gold holdings didn’t change. What they delivered one day they got back the next, or vice versa. The green boxes show firms who received more than they delivered and the red boxes indicate firms who coughed up gold for Bernanke bucks (aka idiots). Note that Deutsche Bank’s massive take in February more than offsets its deliveries in December and April.
Notice one more thing before we move on: Despite Goldman’s much ballyhooed “Gold Sucks!” call a few weeks ago, the squid has not parted with any yellow metal whatsoever in 2013. Hmmm.
Now for the main event:
J P Morgan has fumbled ownership of 1,966,000 Troy ounces of gold since February 1. That’s 74% more gold than the US mint delivered through the US mint’s American Eagle program in all of 2012. I mention this because there’s little doubt in my mind that the US government is one of JPM’s gold “customers.” So (if I am correct) the same US government who just let the Morgue dump its gold on the COMEX floor will once again be suspending gold sales to peasants.
Maybe Jamie Dimon figures he’ll buy back all that gold on the cheap when the rest of the world realizes how smart he is. Or maybe he’s once again displaying that his firm doesn’t have the slightest idea what “hedging” is and is teetering on the brink of collapse. That would explain the April 11th meeting between President Obama and the Pig 5 bank CEOs, wouldn’t it? And you just have to get a little misty that Lloyd Blankfein was nice enough to provide some hot-air cover for his competitor, don’t you?
One thing’s very clear: When it comes to selling physical gold, J P Morgan is acting alone. The 130 contracts NOT delivered by JPM in the last three months (of which 110 were fromABN AMRO) are but a footnote. If Jamie’s right, he’ll look like a genius in a few months, if not he should be able to recycle his quote regarding the infamous “London Whale” losses: “Just because we’re stupid, doesn’t mean everybody else was.” Time will tell.
100 years ago John Pierpont Morgan famously testified to Congress, “Money is gold, and nothing else.” (Note: That is the exact quote, the full testimony can be found here). One has to wonder what the big guy would think of his legacy’s disregard for sound money, $70 Trillion derivatives book, and "House of Cards" "Fortress" balance sheet.
One more very, very important thing.
Anybody who says there’s been gold selling in the GLD is a freaking moron (Bob Pistrami, I’m looking in your direction). The GLD works much like a coat check. Unless you think checking your coat constitutes a real transaction of some kind you shouldn’t think of changes in the GLD’s gold holdings as sales. They’re not. When you check your gold into the GLD you get shares (like a claim check). Where it gets wierd is you can sell these claim checks to nimrods who seem to think they’ve bought your coat, but aren’t actually allowed to wear it.
What nobody seems to appreciate is that every share of GLD is allowed to be sold TWICE (long and short, and it’s really important to understand that). If you’re foolish enough to doubt me (and foolish enough to short gold), go short GLD shares and see if anyone knocks on your door demanding gold. Saying the GLD is 100% backed by gold is a bold face lie because they’re can be twice as many shares in play as gold backing them, which means GLD shares may be only 50% backed by gold before any rules are broken.
When GLD (or any ETF for that matter) shares sold exceed the existing shares PLUS all the shortable (double-sold) shares, legitimate shares can not be found for settlement and that must be reported to the SEC’s “Fails to Deliver” list, which is published twice a month with about a four-week delay (here).
April 15, 2013 was this biggest volume day ever for GLD (93.7mm) and I’ll guarantee you right now that record fails to deliver will be reported on or around that date, which should have required more gold to be deposited with the GLD (but that didn’t happen). So instead of the half-assed explanation Pistrami offered (here) of how he thinks the GLD works, he should have raised the question of whether or not there were enough legitimate shares of GLD to facilitate trading (I say no way in hell).
Gold continues to be pulled from the GLD (which really means people want their coats back) and still no one’s concerned about the number doubled-owned shares. Worse yet, the responsibility for sorting this unholy mess out falls to SEC chief Mary Jo White who is celebrating her 16th day in office.
I can’t wait to see what happens next….
Notes for Nerds: This piece is not intended to describe the inner workings of the COMEX or GLD in detail, so don’t bust my balls with minutiae, unless it is relevant to the discussion of JPM’s massive gold sales or the double-ownership of ETF shares. Double-owned ETF shares are huge problem with ETFs in general, but the misrepresentation (by omission) of this fact by ETFs supposedly backed by tangible assets like gold and silver seems more egregious to me.
In addition to the YTD CME Group metals report, you can track the hilarity on a day-by-day basis here.
The February 1 to April 25 delivered gold contracts info referenced included only transactions between firms. For that reason Morgan Stanley’s 307 contracts transferred from house account to customer account was excluded from the calculations.
Total Net gold deliveries Feb 1 to April 25:
Vision Financial – 1 contract
R J O’Brien – 2
ADM Investor Services INC – 2
Marex – 5
Citigroup Global Markets – 10
ABN AMRO – 110
JP Morgan – 19,660
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My tin foil theory from yesterday hahah.
JP Morgan or Ben B http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Dj24oJl0w
It's all so confusing (sarc)
Which version of the our dystopian societal dictionary do you believe?
In related news, this morning on eBay a lot of 20 1oz Silver ASEs sold for $32.30 each with 11 bidders. This is a 35% premium over spot silver at the time of the auction close.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-1-oz-2013-AMERICAN-SILVER-EAGLES-COINS-ROLL-9...
That's good. I've seen 50-100 percent over spot on many things. Some even had bids. PLEASE END SALES. That will be the final nut kick.
Anyone buying PMs off eBay has to be insane.
That is just asking for trouble.
Depends on the seller. There are some reputable ones, but you really have to know who you are buying from.
I admit I bought SBSS Debt and Death medallions for way over spot on Ebay since I missed the boat on the first release of a series. The only reason to buy anything on ebay is if its (a) discontinued or if (b) you can increase the value of your other coins by completing a collection or series.
You need at least 10% more just to cover eBay fees when selling there.......
In my Gomer Pyle voice, "Surprise, surprise!"
eBay consistently at $32+ this afternoon.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=silver+eagle+1+ounce&_sacat=0&_from...
(That's the link after I stripped out the tracking identifier. Bastards.)
Time for a new investment strategy, girls! Lift up your skirts and show em what you got.
Buy Physical
http://bit.ly/ZAvVJe
Not that SG isn't charging a priemium over cost, but plenty are still buying at those prices.
It's a free market -- step this way...
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/222/2/0/at_the_gates_of_hell_by_renata_studio-d464vj0.jpg
Keith will lead you to your trading station and tell you about the trade of the day...
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/35000/Keith-Richards-with-Mouth-Eye...
ahhhh a pciture of me in my younger, handsome years
The .223 / .308 ratio is 1:1; Time to trade up.
I just had a look at Ebay in the UK for silver coins; there is one auction in the bulk coins category. There used to be no shortage of these coins. There are almost no completed auctions, either. No-one is selling.
Jamie,
Bernie is looking for a cell mate. Bring lube.
Bernie hell... Bubba's looking for a cell mate...
A big one the size of the US deficit would be appropriate.
I say we all take up a collection and fly PUD to NYC immediately.
Perhaps he can loiter outside of the JPM parking garage and take his gripes about physical gold directly to The Man.
Wouldn't that cause a moral dilemma for pud? After all the plane uses an awful lot of carbon fuel. Maybe he can send a strongly worded message by carrier pigeon.
Commercial flying, being 'unnecessary', is inherently evil, therefore PUS would not take that flight.
He will, however, be willing to walk. Barefoot. Wearing sackcloth. And eating worms and bugs along the way.
Anything more than that would be unnecessary, and therefore evil.
How about wearing leaves and the skin of animals that died naturally.
No, that would be denying the opportunity for their components to return to the biosphere, therefore it would be immoral.
No, the only virtuous man is the naked man.
Let's just hope that PUS is in better shape than this guy:
PUD?
He's breathing other people's oxygen. That's immoral and also not sterile.
Breathing 21% oxygen at sea level is unnecessary.
The only moral man lives in the high Andes or Himalayas.
All those children in slavery need the extra O2, therefore it is immoral to breath more oxygen than is absolutely necessary.
Burn a candle, kill a child slave. Evil.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-bigge...
Matt "911-was-too-big-of-an-event-to-be-an-inside-job" Taibbi is claiming the stock market is rigged. Matt, The stock market is too big and complex to be rigged -- somone would come out and say something. </s a r c>
I'm o.k. with what he's saying, but as with the Frontline piece, I think we're looking at a mass transfer of wealth directly to the federal government(s). It's becoming increasingly obvious at this point.
The toliet trash is back at his games!
Forward!!
I just know there is a lot of movement going on right now....a lot....and I think its going East bigtime...the players do not trust us anymore..and want it home or closer to their homes...and there are many new vaults for just that reason.....built because of the lack of trust....
that is why US navy is using NK noise, to keep close to that coast
Come on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_9zH9Q44o
lol You know what those gold coins are saying?
"Come on! Take me out!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=los6obvBbqU
Nice report here. Good post.
Pesky set of figures.
The smoke is pouring out of the windows.
JPM is fucked.
Optimist.
I doubt it,the Morgue is a survivor. Somebody further down the food chain is fucked.
They will will crawl out from the rubble with someone elses gold.
Correct doc. Cayman chapter bought and got delivery. JPM and US government are the same, so maybe they have to back the dollar with gold due to an intern memo from China that they are going to announce to back the yuan, or it's just the 1% who who's gold will pop up somewhere a few years after the reset.
Yes.
Actions have consequences.
But the predators are master consequences shifters.
Could it be that JPM is selling the gold to insiders and they are transferring wealth from the corporation into select private hands? In other words, could they be looting the wealth of the bank before the ship sinks?
The real question is, does she sink, or are taxpayers forced to go down with the ship?
An example of "hard assets" being sucked out of JPM pre-liquidation?
And meanwhile Obama may start a new war with Syria. And meanwhile Lawrence Wilkerson, former aide to Powell, is saying under oath most the Gitmo detainess are innocents and it's been known since they were dragged away to Cuba. And then there's that moron Bush: what fool would even allow his "library" in their town. That guy ought to be in jail as a war criminal. Cheney, too, and may others. What a shithole the US has become.
He donated all 3 of his books and one of them hasn't even been colored in.
And if you go further down the chart in the link you will see that JPM has net inflows of silver.
maybe jpm developed a conscience. Nah, he's just as evil as every self serving myopic goldtard on the planet
EEEEEEEEEEEEviLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
"Unnecessary and immoral hoarding"
THAT'S CORRECT..YOU'RE LEARNING..THANK YOU
Only sociopaths and statists (but I repeat myself) use the word "hoarding" in reference to anything other than the crazy old lady down the block who keeps 85 cats in her house.
When the word "hoarding" is used, one can almost invariably assume that the item(s) being "hoarded" are something held by private citizens that statists (whether those in power or their lackies) wish to confiscate from those citizens, or find it inconvenient or embarrassing for private citizens to hold.
Definition: Pathological or compulsive hoarding is a specific type of behavior characterized by:
SEE "STACKING"
None of those definitions of "hoarding" have anything to do with the government's use of that term in reference to those who stockpile a reasonable amount of food and supplies in case of emergencies, nor do they have any bearing on the government's (and your) ubiquitous use of the word in relation to those who put their savings into gold and silver.
Failure of Pud logic #473.
Why bother with him ?
The Darwin Awards are for those whose mis judgements and actions lead to their own demise. If he's wrong, he'll pay for it.
If gold has little or no value to you, will you sell me an ounce for $1?
Hey, it's $1. And you'll get it in exchange for worthless metal.
Yes akak and teapartiers/occupywallstreet/Greek/Aregntinian/Lybian/Chileans/Spanish/Cypriot people are bad and if you're not with us you're against us so bring the fight to them over there and make sure you go shopping or they win this cultural battle for noble prizes and progress but as long as there is hope and change and we declare victory before the next kinetic engagement the austerity rabid cranky old geezers preaching about deficits and debt to the youth who are our future and must be protected and have education will not stop the god blessed civilized nations from moving forward.
You forget to say "My fellow Americans" and "Let me make this perfectly clear".
<wipes away a tear>
Bravo! Bravo!
Hahahaha. I think I love you, akak.
I worry about my little Pud, I really do. Some day I will be walking by a common blighted area and there will be Pud sitting in a former burned out doorway of a once thriving business begging for scraps of food and nowhere to go. A feeling of pity will swell over me as I reminisce of the good old days when gold was readily available and the majority of Americans laughed and scoffed at those goldbugs assuring themselves that things get better, because isn't that what we've always been told? As I pull out a 1/10 ounce Indian gold coin in my hand and tumble it between my fingers I wonder if passing this on to one in need will make me complicit in damaging the environment? Sorry Pud...but I hear there's a FEMA soup kitchen two miles outside of town.
He could always go work in the gold mines, with all the other enslaved children.
PUD will scoff at you and say " ha I just caught this delicous rat! I'm good. Ill eat the meat make soup from the gristle and make a necklace from the bones"
I don't know who has a bigger "Learning Disability". PUD or the idiots who keep responding to him. He must be having a ball, making a noise and watching them bark like dogs on a leash. Sheesh!
ZHers love some good troll baiting.
For a mind to function normally, occasional random thoughts must be embraced.
Besides, some of the trolls actually seem to learn something after a while...
there is nothing berrter that punching a douchie in the mouth when your in fight club.
good, clean, digital manfun...especially important when faced with a totally unresolvable, unspeakable out of control systemic ponzi. We all need a way to work off some stress...sorry PUD, but FU. Phew, I feel better. Now you are welcome to tell me to FO...come on, probably make you smile.
Hey, shouldn't you be out looking for a MILF?
Oops, whale got stuck.
.
The whole thing is so fucking corrupt it makes you want to throw up....
or throw DOWN
So if I understand this correctly the fed is SELLING gold and stockpiling bullets??
Jedi Mind Trickery 101:
UT Endmt: "We want to take physical delivery of our gold"
Comex: "You don't really want your gold. You want to sell it back to us and buy equities instead"
UT Endmt: "We don't like our gold anymore. We want to buy stocks."
So.....like...could a large portion of this gold be earmarked for the U.S. mint to keep that game running rather than denying us pesants the ability to buy?
I mean, since the U.S.G. is their 'customer'.
Juuuust hoping.
Why is the selling on GLD limited to twice?
A owns GLD, loans the shares to B, B sells them short to C, C loans them to D who sells them short to E.
Now A, C, and E think they own GLD. B and D are short...
Of course this could continue...
A buys shares of GLD and leaves them with his broker B. Broker loans shares to customer C to sell short to D.
D's broker loans them to E who sells short etc.
First mistake = "A owns GLD"
They didn't manipulate silver either.
An Alternative Theory:
It's a dimly lit room, full of stale cigar smoke and scantily clad wait staff. The walls reek of fine English Walnut paneling soaked too many times with lemon scented Pledge furniture polish, which gives one the giddy feeling of waking up with a Thunderbird Wine hangover. Dimond Jimmy sprawls in an overstuffed leather chair, clutching a rolled up C-note still dripping a white powdery substance, as the rest of the cabal listens.
"Let me tell you, this whole fucking econcomy is going down like a cheap hooker for five dollar bill. We're fucked. Shit is going to nothing, I tell you, nothing."
A pale, morbidly obese man, his jowls flopping like oversized labia on a fat girl, stops fondling a blonde in a French maid outfit long enough to ask,
"Deflation? That's what you think is coming? Deflation?"
Dimond scratches his nose, and replies, "Yep."
Another cadaverous faced tycoon-type, his feet perched upon a Turkish wrestler named Achmed, aka The Human Ottoman, puts in his few pence worth.
"I agree. We should dump any asset which we know is going down. Dump it now. Whatever the price. With deflation, cash is king."
Seconds of the motion and thirds echo throughout the chamber.
Dimond Jimmy sums it up before the vote.
"First, we dump all this fucking gold. What kind of fucking idiot is going to pay $1800 an ounce for this worthless shit when the shit hits the fan???We dump the shit. The Gold Bug Sheep will buy it all. Those fucking idiots think it is going to $10,000. They're like Mikey, they'll eat anything! And swallow!!!
A gong rings, and as the wait staff disrobes and bends over, a maniacal laugh spreads throughout the hall.. . .
Hahahahahah teehee teehee teehee. . . .
That is my take on it.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
Wow, you think unbacked paper is actually worth something. Interesting. And that the super-wealthy (against all evidence to the contrary) are unloading their gold on the 'gullible general public' prior to having the price collapse. Yikes. You might want to read a little history.
I like the poems, but maybe you can cook one up about what happened to all those poor cypriots who thought they were set up for a comfortable retirement, thought they were being prudent and conservative by leaving their money in the bank, and have now found out that they were just paying for the bank's bad bets with their retirement savings. I think that would make for a cute poem.
Hi AlH!!!
Actually, I did do some Cyprus Irish Poems, and a really KEWL long poem here called "PWNED" about the Gold Problem. I am glad you like the poems, and if you want to see some more, just ask. (hint. . .hint)
BTW (which means "By the way") have you ever thought about the purchase of Gold as an "INCOMPLETE TRANSACTION"??? Because it is. Every purchase of Gold, outside of a jeweler, is made with an implicit future sale. There is no other reason to own it, unless there is somebody else willing to pay you for it in the future. And hopefully pay you more than you paid for it.
Some people have argued that the same is true about paper money, but they are incorrect. If I take $1,800 in dollars, then I can use it everywhere, since it is legal tender. I can buy food, an acre of farm land, an Epiphone Elitist Casino (drool!), or other stuff. I can walk down any city street and there are tons of people who want my $1,800.
But, with Gold, I have to either transform it into cash, or find a person who wants gold. And the ounce I had a year ago, or so, when it was going for $1800 ish, is now only going for $1400 ish. As a supposed store of value, gold isn't doing so hot.
Which, if you think about it, Gold is always in the hunt for a Greater Fool.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
Patience....
When you put your snowblower away in the spring-- you shut the gas off and let it run to empty the float bowl...
remember how long it will run with the gas off?
That's what we're doing right now....
WTF? (which means 'why the face' BTW, LOL). You're confused about paper money because you're living in an age where it's worked ok for quite a while, and there's a global consensus that it represents value, which will be honored until it isn't. But tell me, if you have some Escudos from Portugal, where can you spend them now? Or to take a longer timeframe, suppose you have some French paper money from the 18th century. Where can you spend that? How much is it worth? Now suppose you have some gold coins from that period with the same face value. Which do you think will buy you more today?
Or perhaps I'm confused and hampered by this archaic notion that historical patterns that repeat time after time after time say something about the human species and have some predictive value, so I'm not able to grasp the idea that the world has finally figured out a way to generate prosperity simply by creating money out of thin air, as opposed to the old way of actually making things of value and trading them. And hopefully our friends in China and India, and the other rising, net exporting nations, are cool with the idea that we in the west are planning on maintaining our privileged status by simply printing money, and will go along with the expectation that they continue to live at a lower standard of living so we can enjoy the one we've become accustomed to.
If you want someone to get it about paper money say I'll give you a million..... Russian roubles. or Castro pesos Or even Italian Lira, if they are older than 30. See if they want them, if they don't want them, see if they can figure out why.
You omit,, at least , the major argument for holding physical gold:
Preserving wealth by spending paper money, whether fiat or backed by promises, to buy some gold can be a simple hedge against the failure of all other paper money. It may well be worth the risks.
Putting all your wealth only into physical gold is just foolish.
Hi Anonnn!
Well, Gold COULD be a simple hedge against paper money totally flopping, but that is the point I was trying to make above. The purchase of Gold DEMANDS, and can not be rationalized without, a future flip to someone else. In the meantime, there it sits in the corner, USELESS, and twiddling its little golden thumbs. If nobody wants it at a higher price, then the poor owner is just SCREWED. Or, as I soooo eloquently wrote here a few nights ago. . . PWNED:
PWNED
Quick, Maw! Hock the trailer!
And hock the pickup, too.
Gold is 18 hundred,
So, let's buy an ounce or two.
And when it hits 10 thousand,
Oh, how we'll swell with pride!
Sell it off, pay back the loan,
And buy a double-wide!
Paw, it's Fred, the pawn shop guy.
He's says a payment's due.
Should we sell an ounce of gold,
Or maybe even two???
Nope, it's 16 hundred now,
We need to buy the dip.
Hock the shotguns, and the dog,
We'll wait and sell the rip.
Paw, it's Fred, the pawn shop guy.
Another payment's due.
Should we sell an ounce of gold,
Or maybe even two???
Nope, it's 15 hundred now,
A sure sign to invest!
Let's go get a paycheck loan,
I think that's what is best.
Paw, it's Fred, the pawn shop guy,
And the loan girl, Betty Lou.
Should we sell an ounce of gold
Or maybe even two???
Nope, it's 14 hundred now,
So let's stick out our necks.
We'll gamble on the rally,
With some insufficent checks.
Paw, it's Fred, the pawn shop guy,
And Betty Lou's on hold.
They're mad about the hot checks.
Pretty pleeease, let's sell the gold???
Nope, it's 13 hundred now,
It's got to take off soon.
Nowhere left to go but up.
A rally to the moon!
Paw, it's Fred, the pawn shop guy.
Our trailer has been sold.
Betty Lou has garnished us,
You've got to dump the gold!
Maw, the stuff is selling
For 8 hundred bucks an ounce.
Cross your fingers, hope and pray
We get a dead-cat bounce.
Paw, it's getting serious.
The Sheriff's at the door.
He says we have to clear out.
Oh please sell it, I implore!
Maw, I can not sell the gold.
The price could not be worse.
I thought I had the Midas touch.
I did. . . but in reverse.
. . . .
Paw, this cardboard box, it leaks.
The sidewalk's awful cold.
I'm about to starve to death,
Too bad we can't eat gold.
Maw, I know just how you feel.
My pillow is a log.
I miss my shotgun, and my job.
I really miss my dog.
I miss my trailer, and my truck.
I can not be consoled.
All I have to keep me warm,
Is a stupid chunk of gold.
Time for me to dump the gold.
I've gotten a few tips,
About an opportunity
Investing in TU-LIPS.
The End.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
Squeeky Fromm, Fed suporter.....
If I live in the US and am travelling to Europe, then buying Euros DEMANDS that I sell them again at some point (for whatever I decide to buy in Europe). Gold is no different, that's the nature of currencies. But maybe you'd prefer a system of pure barter - trade cows for oil, stringbeans for shoes, whatever.
Al,
In your scenario YOU ARE TRAVELLING TO EUROPE. Therefore, you have a reason to convert to that currency. You know the risks, and there is no pretense that what you are doing is some kind of wonderfully brilliant INVESTMENT. Further, I doubt that you would pay some sort of outrageous premium for the Euros, hoping that you could flip them in the future for the equivalent of $10,000 per ounce. You would not encourage all your friends to convert their paper dollars into Euros, if they were not travelling to Europe. Take away all the prospects of Gold going to the moon, and people would not be investing (speculating) in it at these prices.
Just face facts. All this Goldbuggery nonsense is just people caught up in a bubble, who don't want to admit that they are caught up in a bubble, because they are smart enough to know that bubbles burst, and that investing in bubbles is both dangerous and foolish.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
Owning gold is not about MAKING MONEY. Its about retaining value. In a time of debasement, you look for return of capital before you look for return ON capital. Its called a store of value. Not a speculative vehicle. If the price has been suppressed, for any period of time, to any extent, then there will exist an arbitrage between the 'fair value' of gold and purchase price.
And if people were speculating in gold then they would be doing so on margin. And they would be getting whipsawed into bankruptcy by market manipulations. No, gold stacking is done by savers, who have lost faith in the USD as a store of value. The real bubble is the USD. Ask yourself which one is more widely owned, the USD or gold? And people think the gold owners are the fools? Really? So a scam was perpetuated to fool everyone, and the minority who bought gold were the fools? The majority, who buy gov't bonds, hold their money in bank accounts, they saw right through it, call it lucky ignorance. Geniuses. How could I not see it before?
And here I thought for a second that the US Gov't has over 100 Trillion in UNFUNDED LIABILITIES. I.E. USD waiting to be printed.
I have to assume from this that you are either being intentionally misleading, or that you've never seen a real bubble, particularly a bubble in gold. If you had, then you would know that this is nowhere near a bubble.
Squeeky, your squeeking is without logic.
Yes, that is the nature of ANY investment or form of savings. Also money, coincidentally.
By the 'logic' of your specious argument, ANY kind of investment is merely a "flip", and therefore bad and risky. Risk, though, is inherent in life, and one needs to quantify or or least estimate those risks before taking ANY decision, or before not taking a decision, as the case may be. Right now, although the average sheep does not or cannot see it, the long-term risk of holding government fiat currency is much greater than the long-term risk that one will lose value by converting that fiat into gold.
Really, can't you anti-gold trolls just keep it simple and stick to the "you can't eat it" argument?
akak:
Most investments have a "flip" aspect to them. But they also do something in the meantime besides just lay there and shine. For example, stocks pay dividends. Bonds pay interest. Houses can be rented. If you buy a bunch of pork bellies, you could actually take delivery of them, and learn to like eating pork bellies.
Mebbe if you live in the 'hood, you could take your gold and make some chains to wear. Get a little grill work done. Show off to your buds??? Outside of that, gold pretty much just lays there. Plus, if you bought it at $1,800 it also kinda screams for an alternative use, cause that ain't even keeping up with inflation.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
Money is not supposed to earn interest or a dividend.
Gold and silver are fundamentally NOT investments --- they are simply money.
akak:
In your simplistic little golden world, you say you see Gold as "simply money." Would you convert to "gold currency" today, if you thought there was a good chance the price was going to drop tomorrow??? Obviously NO. That would be foolish bet.
BUT, you do the exact same thing when you convert to "gold currency" expecting the price to increase tomorrow. You are making a foolish bet that somebody else will come along and bail you out of your position. That is also a foolish bet when the purchase prices are as high as they are now, and the economic conditions are as iffy.
Quit calling what you are doing INVESTING. You aren't. You are just speculating. It may pan out for some of you, but betting that you can swap a useless metal for a lot of legal tender in upcoming bad economic times is not smart. Even good useful metals, like copper, are getting hammered.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
Sorry, you have used up your five complimentary chances to be treated with respect and as an honest if misinformed poster.
Squeeky, you are disingenous piece of shit, and you know it.
All your blather about "speculating" and "flipping" and "bubbles" is a load of crap. Sure, there are some gold owners who are undoubtedly speculating that they will increase the value of their savings by holding gold, but I daresay that the vast majority of those who hold gold have no such expectation. These latter and vastly larger number of gold holders merely expect to MAINTAIN the value of their savings in gold, NOT to increase them radically --- and they are fully justified in holding this belief, given the millenia-long consistent history of governments debasing the value of their currencies and cheating those who save in those currencies out of the value of their savings. Gold has, over the long term, held its value through every one of those currency debasements --- perhaps not perfectly, but if you want perfection I suggest you kill yourself and knock at the pearly gates.
So you can stop disingenuously blathering about "investing in gold", because it is only YOU who seem to have that idea here. Those who hold gold here, from what I can see and read, do so as a means of SAVING when to do so in government fiat today, given the rampant and exponential governmental indebtedness and consequent monetization of that debt, is both a guaranteed losing proposition if not outright insane.
Now, go away, or I shall taunt you for a second time.
akak:
Hogwash! I don't see six articles a day about peoples pass book accounts, or savings accounts. But the GOLD crap is all over place with one goober after another hawking the stuff as the best thing since sliced bread. Even when the price drops, which ought to be a wake up call for the Gold Bugs, it's still buy, buy, buy. While you try to minimalize all the Gold Hoopla, and act like it is just a calm cool investment, the circus atmosphere is just screaming.
You can taunt all you want, but if you have invested in this silly bubble, you maybe ought to practice some humility. The day is coming when you will need it.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
akak, forget trying to reason with Squiggy Fromm. He's just a bland troll that gets off pretending to be a girl, probably so he can excrete his oh-so-cutesy "poetry" (tee hee) without people calling him a sackless prancer.
For some reason he has a boner for gold, so he jumps into threads like this and performs for himself, admiring his own cuteness in the process. If you happen to corner him with logic, he'll pretend not to see it and won't respond.
As far as trolls go, Squiggy is lame and unremarkable. At least genuine kooks like AnAnonymous will occasionally rise to the level of unintentional entertainment. The only time Squiggy even comes close to being entertaining is when he hears the call of the magic megaphone, which gives him apoplectic fits and transforms him into a hasbarium enema. The rest of the time he's pretty much nothing more than a doormat, aspiring to the level of a Max Fischer or a Johnny Bravo.
Sorry, FouthStooge-ing, I already ended up taking the bait.
And I didn't even get a payback in the form of "citizenism" or "blobbing-up"! Only a metaphorical roadside squat.
I'm telling ya, they don't make trolls like they used to.
.
That's a good way to describe those execrable droppings of "poetry" he leaves scattered about during fits of self-admiration.
The troll standards all pretty much went to shit as soon as they unionized.
4thStooge: Your "boner" comment inspired a new Irish Poem. Thank you!!!
Where The Gold Doesn't Shine!
There once was a Gold Bug, so bold,
Who made him a phallus of gold.
It was a tight squeeze,
But he saved storage fees. . .
Though he grimaced a lot, so I'm told.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
(PS: That is hardly lame or unremarkable. So There!!!)
See what I mean, akak? Squiggy got all narcissistic and had to rub out another self-admiring "poem".
Note the transparently forced girly cuteness he employs when using quips like "So There!!!" or "soooo" or ending his questions with three question marks.
He's a sackless prancer that should go back to playing with his dolls.
Lame. Unremarkable. Doormat.
You are just mad because you know that was a really, really good Irish Poem. It is obvious that you are just sooo jealous!!! But you need to quit grimacing, because your face could freeze that way.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
@ SqueekyFromm:
There once was a user named Squeeky,
Who thought she was pretty sneaky.
She disliked the Gold, but I have been told,
That her ass is amazingly leaky.
ROFLMAO
You would do better if you were to bring out a line of toilet paper with your thoughts/ poems (such as they are) on it.
Squeakky, did you expeirience some sort of severe blunt force trauma when you were a child? Do me a favor and write "The End" after you are finished posting so your 3rd grade monetary understinading matches your 3rd grade writing style.
Gold is a currency. It's actually traded as such in the forex market (traded as XAU). Are you familiar with currency hedging? Do you understand the point of it? Do you think ordinary citizens of the USSR (which, by the way, was the second most powerful country on the planet for at least 50 years), who saw the destruction of the ruble (which many of them had been using to transact for actual goods and services) would have preferred to have a currency hedge?
As far as the convertibility of gold, this is both historically and currently well established. Central banks are the last word on whether a currency is convertible to goods and services. They use gold to settle trade via the Bureaa of International Settlements; the International Monetary Fund and European Union also have very significant holdings, as do the following individual countries, who hold greater than 70% of their total reserves in gold:
USA (at least officially)
Germany
France
Italy
Why do you think these very economically and geopolitically powerful countries would hold such a significant amount of gold as their reserves? Do you really think this is about "tradition", as Bernanke put it? Would these banks really be that stupid to hold the vast majority of their reserves in gold if it wasn't worth anything?
Hi Pan!!!
Tulips could be a hedge, too. Say you had $1000 in paper money, and were unsure how much it would buy in the near future. You could buy a few packs of tulip bulbs at $6.39 and set them aside knowing that even people in financial depressions like pretty flowers. You could even hedge some more of the thousand bucks, and buy a few boxes of ammo, say 38 caliber at $11.99 per box. Ditto for a few camp stoves at a reasonable price, and some MRES. And plus, notice how with all these things they have a utile value.
BUT, here is where you Gold Bugs MISS THE POINT. There is a REASONABLE PRICE to pay for whatever commodity it is that you are using to hedge with. If you pay an unreasonable, stupidly high price, then you have done the exact opposite of hedging your bets, and exposed yourself to losing a shit load of money.
At $1,800 per ounce or thereabouts, you are talking serious money, and way too much for hedging purposes. Any increase above that $1,800 is just more of a BUBBLE. You might get lucky, and find some really stupid person who thinks Gold is going to 10 thousand dollars an ounce, but you also might run smack dab into The Brick Wall of Reality, upon which there is a sign which reads:
Confucious say: People who are broke ain't got $10,000 per ounce to pay for gold.
That is what happened in the Tulip Bubble, and in the Housing Bubble. There wasn't enough money around to pay for the over-priced assets. Tulip bulbs at $6.39 per box is fine, but tulip bulbs at $1,000 per bulb is idiotic. Same with gold. Maybe around $200 ish dollars an ounce, it is a hedgy asset. At $600 per ounce up, here there be dragons. At $1,800 per ounce, you're in frigging lala land, and you better be praying that your stupidity is contagious, and that there are a lot of greater fools out there who have compromised immune systems.
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
So, Squeeky, what makes you uniquely qualified to judge and determine that the price of gold today is radically overpriced, when millions of market participants judge otherwise? Yes, the majority can be and often is wrong, but not nearly so often with their money, and you have not given us one iota of evidence to back up your assertions.
One might also point out that your "fair price" of $200 is multiple times lower than the cost of production of gold from mining. One might think that one who dares to comment on financial and economic matters might understand the basics of economic principles such as profit and loss.
And answer carefully, as I give each specious and shallow anti-gold troll only five chances to make their case in a logical and consistent manner. After those five comments, they are officially fair game and open to the full brunt of my formidable arsenal of sarcasm and ridicule.
No one works for free squeaky wheel, who pays for you to squeak? We sure are getting lots of paid trolls here lately.. It's is almost as if something is happening in the markets, something needs to be disguised or a distractio n created a setup of some sort, hmmm
hey squeeky
next time
take the safty off...
charlie's pissed at you
check his FB page
You need to differentiate between value and price. They're different. As Buffet said. "The price is what you pay, value is what you get."
You may want to ponder what the value of gold might be rather than the price.
There once was a girl named Squeeky
Whose logic was incredibly leaky
She thought she had wit
But it was really just shit
That led her to being so cheeky.
akak:
That was a very good Irish Poem, and don't you feel all better making that kind of response, rather than just saying horribly mean, hurtful, and nasty things to people???
You are making progress and I am very proud of you!
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter
Help me out here... Am I to read correctly that Nova Scotia (Scotia Mocatta?) bank took sizable deliveries?
I noticed the same.
I was in Scotia Mocatta on Friday. They are out of bars. They have Maples left. Teller said the line ups the previous week were around the corner, and when they closed at 16:00 they had to turn many people away.
If they took deliveries and are still out of bars .... wow.
Daily update on COMEX:
4/25: 8,143,247
4/24: 8,583,373
5.1% of COMEX's total inventory left yesterday.
12.2% of COMEX's total inventory has left since 4/5.
5000 more ounces walked out of the US Mint.
and next month I'm going to take another 12.2%, Bitchez !!!
...GLD (or any ETF for that matter) shares sold ...
This may be true for GLD etc in the US but Xetra Gold shares issued by Deutsche Boerse in Frankfurt can be given back to the custodian. Then physical gold will be delivered. And it is actually being delivered.
"When you check your gold into the GLD you get shares (like a claim check). Where it gets wierd is you can sell these claim checks to nimrods who seem to think they’ve bought your coat, but aren’t actually allowed to wear it."
More writing like this please, and less with 6-column-inch run-on sentences with 17 comma splices.
I'm just on pins and needles waiting for ZH to write the article that they've been fully drained.
What happens then, when JPM Runs out of gold? Does Bernbanke Print some gold bars and hand it to them? eventually demand will spike as the price runs wild when the vaults of JPM empty or hit a low and they are forced to stop.
They kinda have to stop selling it. Or, they borrow it from someone to sell.
they will "offer" everyone asking for delivery to be settled in USD
the ink on the bills
will still be wet...
WTF?
So they've just been dumping and dumping and dumping and now they've dumped so much that their vault is almost empty and they're just about out of ammo?
That only makes sense on a political level, it makes no sense at all from an investment point of view. Unless the dumpers have insider info in the FED.
hmmm, maybe they did find the philosophers stone
If so then every month would have a blue box (or maybe green), not red. And Glodman would catch a whiff, demanding a piece of the action. No way they'd stay flat.
On a political level...such as
make war.
planned chaos to grab control.
prep for a new money game.
destroy value of other-people's-commodities to control them.
destroy value of other-nation's-exports to control them.
etc, limited only by madmen's imagination, or their advisors'.
JPM the FED are one in the same.
Of course, how else did Jamie Dimon get those presidential cufflinks?
JP M is suckering in the uninitiated and the gullible. DO NOT BE FOOLED. Round II is next...
Ok, then make a prediction. Let's make it easy: up or down?
Thar she blows!
I can hardly wait for the next whale to surface.
Anybody else's Futures broker having trouble this afternoon with Clearing firms confirming orders and fills ?
I dunno about you guys but all I can say is "Nice fucking trade, Jamie." Sure beat being LONG gold, now, didn't it?
But I thought that JPM had been shorting gold and silver all these years. Does this mean that they were actually long?
Of course, if I were a JPM client who owned gold that JPM was holding for me, I would be just a tad worried. After all, MF Global shows that there isn't really any difference between customer and house assets.
Long physical. (Naked) short on fake promises (soon-to-be cash-settled).
the most disgusting part is hearing "about how Wall Street always draws the best and brightest" ad nauseum.
The IDIOTS working on wall street get insider info - front run - massively leverage and still LOSE. Then they have to buy the CFTC, SEC, CONgress, Fed Courts just to get bailed out.
Hilarious....then they summer in the Hamptons
But nevertheless, they switch the lights on, on friday afternoon.
best and brightest fraudsters
It is no surprise that CFTC Gensler's breath smells of Jamie Dimon's beef torpedo.
Gotta love the Tylers,they are such an efficient and quizative bunch.