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Guest Post: Don’t Dismiss The Possibility Of Gold Confiscation
Submitted by Jeff Thomas via Casey Research,
If you hold precious metals in your portfolio, there is a good chance you fear hyperinflation and the crash of fiat currencies.
You probably distrust governments in general and believe they are self-serving and have no interest in your economic well-being. It is likely that your holdings in gold are your lifeline – your hope to get you through these times while holding on to your wealth.
But have you ever given any thought to the possibility of having this lifeline confiscated by the authorities?
In my conversations with friends and associates, I have often raised this question. The typical responses:
"They'd never do that."
"I'll deal with that if and when it happens."
"I just wouldn't give it to them."
I consider these "wishful thinking" responses.
It's an interesting thought that the greatest threat to gold and silver investment might not be the possibility of losing on the speculation, but the government taking it away from you. It's a thought that I've found few want to even think about, let alone discuss.
If you fall into this camp, you're in good company. Some of the forecasters whom I respect most highly also treat it either as unlikely or at best, "something we may need to look at in the future." To date, in conversing with top advisors worldwide, the two primary reasons they believe gold will not be confiscated are:
- "Confiscation would mean the government acknowledges the reality of the value of gold."
Yes, this is quite so. They would be changing their official view… which, of course, they do all the time. But I submit that all that they need to do is put the proper spin on it.
- "They would meet greater resistance than they did back in '33."
I expect that this is also true, but that a plan will be put in place to deal with that resistance.
We'll address both of these assertions in more detail shortly, but first, a bit of history.
In 1933, Franklin Roosevelt came into office and immediately created the Emergency Banking Act, which demanded that all those who held gold (other than personal jewelry) turn it in to approved banks. Holders were given less than a month to do this. The government then paid them $20.67 per ounce – the going rate at the time. Following confiscation, the government declared that the new value of gold was $35.00. In essence, they arbitrarily increased the value of their newly purchased asset by 69%. (This alone is reason enough to confiscate.)
Today, the US government is in much worse shape than it was in 1933, and it has much more to lose. The US dollar is the default currency of the world, but it's on the ropes, which means the US economic power over the rest of the world is on the ropes.
I think that readers will agree that they will do anything to keep from losing this all-important power.
The US government has essentially run out of options. At some point, the fiat currencies of the First World will collapse, and some other form of payment will be necessary. Yes, the IMF is hoping to create a new default currency, but that, too, is to be a fiat currency. If any country were to produce a gold-backed currency in sufficient supply, that currency would likely become the desired currency worldwide. Fractional backing would be expected.
As most readers will know, the Chinese, Indians, Russians, and others see the opportunity and are building up their gold reserves quickly and substantially. If these countries were to agree to introduce a new gold-backed currency, there can be little doubt that they would succeed in changing the balance of world trade.
That said, the US government is watching these countries just as we are, and they are aware of the threat of gold to them.
The US government ostensibly has approximately 8,200 tonnes of gold in Fort Knox, although this may well be partially or completely missing. Additionally, it ostensibly holds a further 5,000 tonnes of gold in the cellar of the New York Federal Reserve building. Again, there is no certainty that it is there. In general, the authorities don't seem to like independent audits.
In fact, there are rumors that the above vaults are nearly or completely empty and that the above quoted figures exist only on paper rather than in physical form. While there is no way to know this for sure, it's not out of the question.
Either way, if the US and the EU could come up with a large volume of gold quickly, they could issue a gold-backed currency themselves. It's a simple equation: The more gold they have = the more backed notes they can produce = the more power they continue to hold. By seizing upon the private supply of their citizens, they would increase their holdings substantially in short order.
Either that or they could just give up their dominance of world trade and power… What would you guess their choice would be?
It is entirely possible that the US government (and very likely the EU) has already made a decision to confiscate. They may have carefully laid out the plan and have set implementation to coincide with a specific gold price.
So how would this unfold? Let's imagine a fairly extreme scenario and ask ourselves if it could be pulled off effectively:
- The evening news programs announce that the economic recovery is being hampered by wealthy private investors who, by hoarding gold, are skewing the value of the dollar and threatening the middle and poorer classes. The little man is being made to suffer while the rich get richer. A press campaign to equate gold ownership with greed ensues.
- The government announces the Second Emergency Banking Act, advising the public that "the first EBA was instituted by FDR to solve this same problem during the Great Depression. This act was instrumental in helping the little man 'recover.'" (As the average man on the street doesn't know his history nor how wrong this statement is, he'll believe it. Besides, the announcement has a "feel-good" message, and that's all that matters.)
- Possessors of gold, who make up a small minority of the population, would become pariahs. It won't matter that the guy who owns two gold Maple Leafs is not exactly a greedy, rich man. No one will wish to be seen as resisting confiscation. Neither will they wish to go to prison for resisting, no matter how remote the possibility.
- The US pays for the gold in US dollars, which are rapidly headed south. Yes, the Fed will need to print more fiat dollars in order to pay them off, but this suits their purpose, as it inflates the dollar even more. Those who have turned in their gold will do whatever they can to unload the US dollars as quickly as possible and will need to find another investment at a time when there are very few trustworthy investments other than gold. The stock market would likely rise, showing the public how the gold confiscation program is "working."
- One last scary possibility: The government demands that gold is turned in immediately and that settlement will occur following confiscation. After confiscation, it announces that, as there has been such a large number of cases of rich people ripping off the little man, processing them all could take months, possibly even a year or more. A further announcement states that some investors have made an unreasonable profit on the backs of the poor and that they should not be granted this profit. This profit must be returned to the people. (You can almost hear the cheers of the people.) Then it sets about making assessments. The bureaucrats find that most investors do not have formal, acceptable receipts for every coin in their possession. So if you paid $1,200 for a Krugerrand a couple of years ago, you get paid $1,200. If you bought it at $250 in 1999, you get paid $250. But if you have no receipt in an acceptable form, you get a "fair," median payment, say, $500, regardless of when you bought it.
- Appeals: Each investor will be allowed up to one year to appeal the decision of the Treasury as to what is owed him. Of course, the investor knows that the dollar is sinking rapidly and that he would be wise to shut up and take what he is being offered.
Again, this hypothetical scenario is an extreme one. The reader is left to consider just how likely or unlikely this scenario is and what that would mean to his wealth.
But bear this in mind: If the above scenario were to take place soon, the average citizen would have mixed feelings. They would be glad that the "evil rich" had been taken down a peg, but they would worry about the idea of the government taking things by force, because they might be next. It would therefore be in the government's interests to implement confiscation only after the coming panic sets in – after the next crash in the market, after it becomes plain to the average citizen that this really is a depression and he really is in big trouble. Then he will be only too glad to see the "greedy rich" go down, and he won't care about the details.
As terrible as the thought is, it seems unlikely to me that the government will not confiscate gold, as they have little to lose and so much to gain.
Those who own gold would prefer to think that this cannot happen, but they have quite a lot riding on that hope and precious little evidence to support it.
It is entirely possible that this scenario will not take place, just as it is possible that confiscation will not take place. The purpose of this article is to spark some serious discussion – both for and against the possibility.
Investors are, by their very nature, planners. It may take a community of investors to develop a legal plan to deal with the above eventuality. Time to get started.
The government can't easily confiscate what's outside its own borders, which is why it's working night and day to make it as difficult as possible for you to protect your assets abroad. This sad reality means that you need to take action before it's too late. Your first step? Learn how to start internationally diversifying your wealth – and your life. From investing in international markets and opening offshore bank accounts to setting up an offshore LLC or annuity, Going Global 2013 will tell you how and where to expatriate your wealth. It also presents solid, up-to-date information on internationalizing your life, from getting a second passport to choosing a good place to live.
Don't allow yourself to be milked by your home government any more. Get started on internationalizing your life today... while it's still possible.
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"Gold is becoming a de-facto currency."
Maybe between nations, but not within a nation.
Yes, more eastern nations are doing international trade in gold, but none of them are doing much with gold internally, fiat still rules.
Nope, gold will never be a defacto currency in any nation. Govts and central banks won't permit it, and 99% of sheeple want fiat anyway.
It might be a commodity used in "underground" barter, but that's about the extent of it. And that's what gold's real use is, barter, and barter is where it all started anyway, and reverts back to when fiat currencies die. Fiat currencies are the "flash in the pan", rarely lasting more than 50 yrs.
The problem is this "currency" mentality we've grown up with. Gold never becomes a "currency". Ever. It's always in the barter concept. Bartering something with intrinsic value for something else with intrinsic value.
It's where America started. Gold and silver coins were to be used as "money" in America. But they were never called "currency".
India has a controlled currency that cannot be exported. So when Indians import gold, India's Central Bank must pay for it with foreign currency reserves. India's foreign currency reserves are running low...
Though confiscation of gold concerns me I think it much more likely they will confiscate your IRA's, 401k's and pensions as described here:
http://macrowealthpreservation.blogspot.com/2012/12/teresa-ghilarducci-w...
After all, there's enough wealth there to pay off the national debt.
No. There isn't. Not even close.
But I agree, they're going to take it.
Her'es an additional link:
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/var/ezp_site/storage/fckeditor/file/pdfs/cent...
Page 12.
Here's another source but with updated 2013 numbers of $17.5 Trillion
http://sovereign-investor.com/2013/01/17/the-government-wants-your-pension/
Never doubt the Missiondweller.
Yep, you're right. I was just looking at DB and DC (private) plans. If you include IRAs and government-sponsored retirement plans it's just shy of $18T.
the 401k, pension stealing strategy has already been floated. They crash the market, then offer a govt secured investment, even offering to "replace" a small portion of your market losses when you switch. Game over.
It's 2008 -- ALL OVER AGAIN!!! There's also something on the back burner at Treasury that I'm hunting for, in the mean time they're prepping to make the sheeple BEG Uncle Sam for an ass-raping masked in a "bail-out"... Keynesianism repeating its confiscatory sovereign-refi finest hour.
https://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/2013/13-716-NAT.html
US Labor Department seeks input on regulations regarding lifetime income illustrationsWASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Labor's Employee Benefits Security Administration today announced an advance notice of proposed rulemaking focusing on lifetime income illustrations given to participants in defined contribution pension plans such as 401(k) and 403(b) plans. The ANPRM provides an opportunity for stakeholders to provide early input into the development of regulations.
"We are looking for the best ideas on how to show people what their lump-sum retirement savings look like when they are spread out over all the years of retirement," said Assistant Secretary of Labor for Employee Benefits Security Phyllis C. Borzi. "Retirees run the risk of outliving their savings. If workers have the benefit of seeing how long their savings could last, it might spur better planning for the future such as adopting more effective savings strategies."
EBSA is developing proposed regulations regarding the pension benefit statement requirements under section 105 of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974. The ANPRM solicits input on a rule that would require a participant's accrued benefits to be included on his or her pension benefit statement as an estimated lifetime stream of payments, in addition to an account balance. EBSA also requests comments on a rule that would require a participant's accrued benefits to be projected to his or her retirement date, assuming annual contributions and an estimated rate of return, and then presented as an estimated lifetime stream of payments.
The ANPRM serves as a request for comments on specific language and concepts in advance of the proposed regulations.
The notice will be published in the Federal Register on May 8, 2013. It can also be viewed here.
"Retirees run the risk of outliving their savings. If workers have the benefit of seeing how long their savings could last, it might spur better planning for the future such as adopting more effective savings strategies."
My version:
"Retires run the risk of outliving the dollar. If workers have the benefit of investing in tangible assets, their savings might last beyond the collapse of the dollar. By adopting more effective saving strategies, avoid listening to Washington and the mainstream media, they might avoid deep poverty and becoming destitute."
wait the assets in pension funds have value to investors because they are a tradable asset, so when they are confiscated they become worthless at that point since no one can own anything anymore. so all the corporations will just be wiped out except the foriegn ones and the U S treasury will no longer have access to credit markets ever again. that's a plan for the united states of retardia
Oh, they'll still be tradable securities. They'll trade you your stocks and bonds for nice, safe US Treasuries.
As an added bonus, the US Government will become a major shareholder in every US (and many international) companies, plus hold huge chunks of their debt. That's what they call a "win-win" in DC.
Its just monopoly money anyway.
The Bank never "goes broke." If the Bank runs out of money, the Banker may issue as much more as needed by writing on any ordinary paper.” – Monopoly Board Game - Rule Book, Third Paragraph of Section titled - The Bank…..
The govt can confiscate your bank account....
your children via the draft.....
your property via eminent domaine....
I rarely post but this was just such utter trash I could not stay silent
First, the .gov needs to confiscate all the pressure cooker. Once that happens then re list the article.
In CT this week, someone spotted a pressure cooker box in a shopping cart. A major event, The area was evacuated; no children were hurt.
Someone just left an empty box and did not bother to bring it home.
Watching this I am very secure in my believe that only dumb people will respond to what the .gov tells them to do.
Most people here are coin collectors not PM hoarders and will respond accordingly.
Believe me, if worst comes to worst, and the dollar disappears taking every financial asset based on it with it, gold will face punitive taxes/confiscation in the rebirth of the NewDollar. It won't be alone, either, as any hard asset that carries buying power forward from the old fiat currency to the next will get targeted for being a "lucky ducky".
You will face a choice- pay the piper, or become a criminal in the eyes of the state.
Yoda wants you to remember your failure at the cave and also Jamie Dimon's suddenly emptying vault.
Jamie Dimon and his buddies are the strongest argument against outright confiscation (as opposed to confiscatory taxes). How many millions of serfs pockets must be manually picked in order to yield the gold of one Jamie Dimon?
BTW -- Since JPM buys also buys gold directly from gold miners regularly and they haven't added to their published "vault inventory" of gold supplies "available for settlement of Comex transactions" - what do you think the chances are that Jamie and his TBTF BFFs have fucktons in some vault (perhaps even the same vault) that simply isn't available for delivery to eligible CRIMEX victims?
As an old buddy used to say: "Should I just go fuck myself?"
Nah. They'll do it for you.
I try to be proactive.
People hold gold in fear of an economic collapse, Although I do agree with them, I have not horded gold simply because if it gets so bad that we are buying bread with gold, the governement would by then have either confiscated gold through outright confiscation or taxation, or, have made it illegal to do any commerce using gold.
And as for the gold buried in the back yard or bottom of the lake, it would be illegal to use it anyway.
And... If things are really that bad, you will be spending all your waking hours protecting your family, home, food and posessions before your leasurly stroll to the (black) market to buy food.
In the situations you've mentioned the Black Market quickly becomes larger than the Official market so your gold would still be useful to you. The black market would also have little fear from the police as they have to use it to get the goods they need as well.
I've occasionally heard of someone in England coming across an old hoard that has moldered in the ground for a thousand years or more. I'd rather see someone in the distant future benefit from my savings than the government. Screw them. Times will get better. Leave your heirs the GPS coordinates.
For the last time you buy bread with silver and Kate Upton with gold.
"And as for the gold buried in the back yard or bottom of the lake, it would be illegal to use it anyway."
Oh, well, in that case...LOL...
More evidence of extremely passe, legacy thinkin lad...
black markets exist[ed] in states without a control structure totally in place to achieve compliance in every aspect of the lives of it's citizen\inmates.
Pretty clear that you have no idea of what's been planned for your future. Good luck with that.
The point of hoarding gold is not to be able to spend it during the crisis, but to have a vehicle to move some wealth to the other side, for yourself or your heirs.
they won't have to confiscate it if they can just get you to cough it up as you go piss broke trying to get by day to day. it's a lot easier and causes a lot less violence. Also they get it at a discount.
Alas, just a reminder that .gov has refined it's torture techniques.
Yup! Probably a majority of the people I know have already surrendered their gold, at the "We Buy Gold" shops that have proliferated in my neighborhood.
It is my hunch they may end up confiscating Pb.
At 3200 feet p/s.
The feds wouldn't dare using outright confiscation, so they use price suppression instead hoping many or at least the weaker hands will surrender. For now anyway! That was their tactic in late 70's which brought the price down considerably...carbon copy!!
I recall some forty or so years ago. A war on drugs was declared, still fighting on today. To free the the USA of of mind altering drugs. How is that one working out for you? I find, ahem illegal drugs, more readily available today than back then.
Gold confiscation is going to be a little more difficult. I would start with the guns first. I can see the latest fast and furious gun grab effort, has taken the current regime aback for a new strategy.
Finally, the Roosevelt gold confiscation occurred at a time when gold was money. Today, it is not, it has been castaway as a barbarous relic, worthless.
Hah, homey don't play that game!
Mind altering drugs worked out well for me at least.
(I read ZH)
Besiege the cities after the food riots. Nobody gets in or out without a cavity search or an official business permit. Then, offer one barrel of soylent green for every gun or ounce of gold traded in at the ring of TSA checkpoints; no questions asked. After the supply dries up, send in the stormtroopers to ship everyone off to the FEMA camps, where they will be processed into the next shipment of Halliburton-brand soylent green. This process is entirely sustainable and Georgia Guidestone compatible. The only question is whether the banksters can pay enough declining fiat to get enough stormtroopers to do their dirty work. I think 90% of city/suburban cops would do it just for the boner. Rural goldbugs will fare better. Their main worry will be APMEX records and narcs motivated by a small (fiat) cut or just good 'ol revenge and jealousy.
Propaganda and market manipulation full court press on PMs.
Delivery demands will end the game, period. There's nothing they can do to stop overseas demand. They are terrified domestic demand jumps in.
I smell the hyperactive bowel stench of fear.
+ 1
And what great hypocrisy, as the US mints gold coins as legal tender.
If the US dollar goes totally down, America can still feed itself, power itself and protect itself. What it won't be able to do is retain 1000 overseas bases and interfere with other nations. This is the crux of the problem as the military industrial complex will not be able to cope with a fall off in business and America might not be able to cope with one million angry unemployed soldiers returning home.
peter pan....if the u.s. dollar crashes, do you realize how EXPENSIVE everything becomes overnight???? oil is everything......when oil becomes expensive, EVERYTHIING becomes expensive....no peter pan.......america would have a hard time feeding itself........a hard time maintaining medicare, medicaid, section 8, snap, disability...oh and what would yields on our debt look like??? how would the govt pay for that if the entire world stopped lending to the country with a reserve currency backed by the full faith and credit of the u.s. govt??? if the dollar crashes, you are talking about the argentina collapse in 2000 multiplied by 100 in intensity........................
you need to step out of fairytale land peter pan, stop flying around, and get down to earth.........................
You can make a contrary argument and I will respectfully consider it. But your gratuitous personal comment obviates my need to do so.
By the way, the Argentine economy could have had a tremendous recovery given its resources had it not been for a government hell bent on interfering with free markets and the inate ability of free people to regroup and recreate prosperity.
Why would the government need to continue borrowing if it wasn't running wars?
the govt pulling its bases, which will shirley be done..you are correct about that......would be the most overt sign of the end of the empire..........the world would have lost full faith in the full faith and credit of the u.s. by then............how do you think the bond market would react??? have you calculated the interest cost on 10%, 12% etc??????.........again, how would citizens afford anything if the dollar turns to dust???? no peter.............the u.s. will not live happily ever after..................
The current government does not want its soldiers back.
They will all be killed off abroad in a double-cross by Dick -O.
Bank on it.
If you are in the US Armed Forces, you will be abandoned and murdered by this regime.
I'll seldom seen a comment as bluntly accurate as this one.
But then... I've seldom had cause to uptick a comment by 'kito'... til now.
Interesting day here on the "all new" ZH.
Perhaps we are gettin down to something real. At last.
They (the soldiers that are not wanted back in the Homeland) may be sent to the new bases in Australia.
Just like the Vietnam vets that were too dangerous to be allowed back in the US, were stationed in Iran, with Bell helicopter.
And in case you haven't noticed, Americans pay twice as much as the equivalent level of care in Europe, because you ave been had by doctors and pharmaceutical companies,
If America shook itself free of bankers, pharaceutical companies and the military overkill budget, it just might become a decent nation once again with a future.
peter pan......you fail to account for the majority masses who have been conditioned to rely completely on the government for employment, medical care, housing, food, etc.................the united states is a country that grew into wealth based on the foundation of extracting the riches from other countries............and hoarding the worlds resource pie....hence the need for so many roman...er...american outposts.....................thats over now.....plain and simple.....so now the country relies on maintaining its illusion of wealth through monetizing the economy............its over......plain and simple.........
at what point does oil "become' expensive?
when the troops abroad can no longer protect it..............................
Now are we getting somewhere with civilized discourse without the need for personal comments.
I agree with you about people being almost completely reliant on the government teet.
I still believe that after a generation of readjustment and re-invention the American nation might just emerge with the same name but a totally different reality which is characterised by a much more simple, clever, leaner, happier and more sustainable paradigm.
Otherwise we are all headed to the cleaners and then some sewage outfall.
peter.......there was no personal comment....i dont know you :)....impossible to make it personal....i was only jesting....sorry i insulted your username..........please ask peter for forgiveness........
and yes, there will continue to be some form of america....but there will be darkness before dawn.........its the ebb and flow of life and civilization.......................i dont understand those who think the idea of uninterrupted linear growth doesnt work for markets but yet works fine for civilizations........
My only fear is that darkness might last for so long that people will forget what light looks like and hence become accustomed to it.
in some form, they are already becoming accustomed to it...................................
@kito: "If the dollar "crashes..."
... The fiat bubble pops, market dynamics will rebalance and price discovery comes back. Commodities will be priced differently. US bases overseas will be gone. Bye-bye to gunboat diplomacy and propping up of regimes/countries that can't survive w/o free stuff from the US.
EXACTLY!!!
Most of the folks who would bear arms against the government are employed by the government. AND OVERSEAS....NEVER TO RETURN!!!
Of you think otherwise, it would take a Herculean effort just to bring the logistics of movement of troops. My money is on the troops being left overseas to be exterminated by the indigenous people's.
Close. More likely, they will be given the choice of leaving quietly and leaving the gear, or staying and doing w/o water and electricity. Much easier solution. Also more devious and rids them of the GIs peacefully, so these can become America's problem. Some will opt to switch sides and stay, most will come back -- pissed pissed and scared.
Before all that happens, TPTB would rather use them in a world war. Which is in their plans, as TPTB won't go quietly.
assuming the dollar crashes.................they wont bother with gold....most of it will have been sold by the masses to the "we buy gold" stores...
The Dollah won't crash, they'll print it out of existence and conveniently convert to an all digital currency.
I'm afraid BTC is a little too independent for TPTB.
"No one will wish to be seen as resisting confiscation. Neither will they wish to go to prison for resisting, no matter how remote the possibility."
I completely disagree.
Hell, with all of the data mining over the last few years there is not one of us who could not be convicted of something. So forget worrying about being a criminal. You already are one, anytime they want you to be one.
I owe them nothing when they finally take down this house of cards. I will go Galt with guns blazing, if the need arises.
Dying won't be so bad, if I take ten of the bastards with me. And I won't be alone in this respect. We are Legion.
Very good comment, + $55,000
Oh, that gold, you mean that er... uhmm.. oh yeah. Most of my gold was stolen in an armed robbery by two black guys back in '09 when I was taking it out of my safety deposit box. And I have the bank registry records and my complaint to the damn bank for lax Secutity in its parking lot ( no cameras ) and the police report. The other gold I sold to various individuals who paid cash; sold it at a loss and have receipts. Most of them are like from that guy whose Social our President is using, so you can talk to them. I never invested again in that crap. All I have is my Apple stock back at $38 per share.
Holder and Hussein?
More likely they will ban gold sale in US in the name of national security.
Then I'll cast bullets from it. Field surgery with a rusty bayonet will be a hoot to watch.
And what happens if/when the cashless society is brought into being? The government (one world or otherwise) will have the power to render gold as valuable as glue.
The technology is here now, it is just a matter of implementing it. The plans have certainly been around for several decades.
and what if the sheep are offered a month's supply of food for each personal password they turn over, or a year's supply for turning over all their neigbor's? Or maybe get food for blood donations by the pint direct from the SNAP program?
Who cares?
Idiots can't be fixed.
The rest of us can avoid the idiots.
As for gold, until the government can PRINT GOLD ATOMS more than glue then NO, they can't render it the value of glue.
The stars are powerful beyond human control and ONLY the supernova of a star determines the availability & thus value of gold. End of story. Period.
I'm short boating insurance. Bitchez.
Do you think this economic system was set up for your benefit? Do you think it ever was? Do you think that as the YOY growth of the economy slows you will maintain your standard of living? Think the top 1% WONT TAKE MORE OF THE PIE AS THE PIE GETS SMALLER? AND YOU WILL GET YOUR "FAIR" SHARE?
GROW UP! IF YOU WANT MORE, YOU'LL HAVE TO YANK IT OUT OF THEIR FAT PIGGY MOUTHS. ITS ALREADY ON THEIR PLATE!
Thought alot about this. I suppose I'd try to become a smuggler. I don't doubt for a minute this gov't would confiscate - especially THIS gov't. All these guys are all too big and too corrupt to jail. Complete criminals.
Amazing how fast the US has declined in terms of corruption, we re a banana republic. I'll tell you this, after dealing with ten years of these criminal banksters and their bullshit manipulation of gold and silver, confiscation would pretty much push me over the edge.
Peter Pan - I could use about 100 of those committed veterans. We could change the country.
One hundred seems too small a number but then again the 300 Spartans set the standard for what it means to stand up for your country even in the face of certain defeat.
Perhaps what it might take is for one puppet president to unexpectedly reveal the truth on TV (assuming they do not pull the plug) and to reveal the manipulators, their manipulations and their treasonous behaviour.
That might just ignite a re-awakening of the spirit of America.
Wishful thinking but then again humanity has often been driven by dreams.
Will they try confiscation? Yes.
Will I resist? Hell, Yes.
Will there be a black market? Hell, yes.
Will I participate? Hell, yes. My father, then a 'tween, spent most of WWII blackmarketeering with his father out of their basement. People want shit. You provide it. QED.
Will I shoot the motherfucker who comes to rob me, despite the imprimatur of government "authority". Oh, hell, yes.
See you all on the other side.
Will I shoot the motherfucker who comes to rob me, despite the imprimatur of government "authority". Oh, hell, yes.
And u lose, because it's always a 20-1 ratio, and their gear,tactics are 1000x's better than ours.
Tell that to the people in the Warsaw ghetto. They might have died, but they saved thousands of others and they got to kill some fascists before exiting.
Most of "ours" are ex military and/or heavy hunters and woodsmen. Plus, vast swaths are enclaves of folks who will come to their neighbors aid.
I might not "get a lot", but I can promise you I WILL get at least 1, and if everyone does their duty to the Constitution and Republic that is all it would take when the "come for it"...
Actually it is not a 20-1 ratio. More like a 1-100 ratio. After a while the local SWAT team is going to resist going on raid after raid after raid on good neighbors in their own town.
Look what happened in Boston. Took thousands of cops, FEMA, and DHS guys three days to find two dumb amateur muslims after their pics were broadcast on global TV. The system will quickly run out of resources.
Exactly, I plan on running towards my neighbors when I hear firing, if this new era fully dawns. If they want to make me and my neighbors "Enemies of the State" ex post facto, then by God I will be an ENEMY OF THE STATE.
Fuck you NSA. Jam a 12 gage up your ass, pull the trigger, and clear your mind.
"When a richman dies, he loses life's joys. When a slave dies, he loses life's pain."
"All must awaken from the dream."
really? Ever heard that saying "you can't corner Dorner" ?
1 man had multiple police forces shitting bricks and many of them were shot in the head.
ONE man.
Turns out at the last big press conference / coordination area he had them ALL dead to rights. They are alive now because he CHOSE not to shoot them all down. He could have.
Sure, why wouldn't they take people's gold. They steal your labour and can steal more of it at any time. They can steal your time if they want it.
That was a long ad.
PB; The most precious of all metals
He who holds the guns upholds the law.
The only way to ensure they never get your gold even when they have encircled your home is to have a jar of nitro-hydrochloric acid which will dissolve it.
If you cannot keep your gold then they cannot have it either.
This ain't 1933 and the current Fascist WH occupant isn't Roosevelt. Before this govt has a chance, I will shave my gold down, feed it to myself and my dogs and spend weeks shiting it out of the sewers and parks of Houston before I give it to this government.
Fuck this government
Long Live the Republic
My thoughts exactly!
Well said, my brother.
Hey Obama? You and your lackeys reading this?
Fuck you.
I'll just move to Texas. Obama is no FDR and this isn't 1933. I don't think he can make it stick.
Come on down brother, we need more like you
I just got Alzheimers disease. I don't remember if it was before or after the boating accident.
"that the government will not confiscate gold, as they have little to lose and so much to gain"
I disagree with that statement. This ain't 1933. They will loose lives trying it.
"...The US government ostensibly has approximately 8,200 tonnes of gold in Fort Knox, although this may well be partially or completely missing..."
the key word is ostensible. starting with the london gold pool in the early 1960s and continuing until the late rubin-clinton years, the government pissed away every ounce of gold it owned and stole from americans. clinton got us into the tungsten game. fort knox holds nerve gas - nothing more.
the nerve of them....
This article is so full of horsefuck on so many levels. Jeff Thomas is so full of horsefuck on so many levels. Doug Casey is so full of horsefuck on so many levels. Why does ZH even give this Casey Group horsefuck lip service. If Thomas wants to alert folks, he might start with true information and he might even wish to get his math right. Shouldn't be too hard to do. The horsefuckers at Casey could start with acknowledging that JPM and FED set prices at the point of a gun. Doug Casey finds conspiracies everywhere except in the gold fix, so who gives a horsefuck what he thinks, or what his horsefuck puppets think. The only solution Doug Horsefuck Casey ever has is to tuck his coward's tail and run for South America. That's his answer to everything. I won't spend one vaulable moment of my life refuting this horsefucker or his horsefuck puppets. If you have half a brain, you've already spotted the horsefuck in the piece and if you don't have half a brain, then who gives a horsefuck what you think.
Dear listening intelligence services,
Please add "horsefuck" to your alert-word lexicon. May be a terrorist code-word or something. I don't know, but you better add it to be safe anyways. I think that anyone you hear using that word should be looked at a bit closer. Like should they really be allowed to fly or even to take Greyhound?! Get those TSA guys to take a better looksie or something. I'm just saying.
Thanks, and cold regards.
P.S. What is "horsefuck" anyways?
Horsefuck is the new normal codeword for bullshit. And I'm quite sure NSA, TSA, CIA, CSI Miami, MGM, S&P, AT&T, A&P and TG&Y have been looking at all of us pretty closely.
Classic!... after a long homage to Al Peck(as the skit you have performed here is nothing but the same stylistics of his dance n pitch schtick)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyEuxm4HiG0
you have yet to move a single pint of the used fruit sitting pon your cerebral shelf... or land a single substantive blow against the author's premise... which may indeed have plenty of the pockmarks which gave our man the inspiration to term his overripe loupes "moon melons".... but we'd never know from your pallet load of bluster... masquerading as an argument....
you may need to throw in a couple of free tickets to the "Circus Lupus" fore the more informed reader takes home any of your slightly worn wares son...
or maybe you'll just continue to peddle the juvenile invective. There's a market for everything... looks like you got that one err..
nailed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9CZUEVVpvA
Can you smart people comment on whether this hypothetical would work?
I put an ad in the newspaper advertising gold and silver coins for sale. When someone calls, I tell them that it's all already sold. Poor me, I needed money so bad I sold it at a loss. If the government ever inquires, I tell them I couldn't possibly remember who I sold it to. I point to the receipt from when I bought it, and the date of the ad when PM's were at a low price. Didn't declare it because I made no profit, and gee, I didn't know I could claim it as a loss on my tax return.
Holes?
I sold all of my PM's on craigslist for cash. Have the ad to prove it.
And took a loss on all of them. No need to involve the IRS.
That's exactly what I did with my firearms, back when I lived in the Homeland.
It may not be perfect... but it's gotta work better than the truth.
No real holes that I can see except the rules can keep changing - especially if too many of us use that rather than "boating accidents"
Physical gold moves from West to East, as central banks settle accounts with their preferred nations: their slaves in the East, controlled by their central bank allies.
China urges its people to buy gold, as a kind of support system for the reset to come in monetary/political waif affairs.
India tries to damp down its people's fervor for gold, as it wants to walk in goose step with the nazionist central banksters.
Confiscation of private gold serves no purpose in this 21st century, as it is only privately held physical gold that will assist the reset to come, and the banksters need private allies. Lamp posts await them unless they save gold, and silver sister.
Follow the money. National politicians hate you. Nazionists who employ them do too.
Fyz with guns forward or serf
Nazionists are cowards who killed jews in Nazi Germany, applauded by Keynsians, and all governments.
Their unregulated otc dervivatives are killing them. Stand aside. Stay with the Constitution. Let them kill themselves, as they most surely will by their own 'financial weapons of mass destruction', and 'assassin contracts' CDS, said Buffet and Soros, the Rothschild Zionist agents.
Be careful of the propaganda. Our enemies use everything they have to appear as us, and turn us on their prey, because we are right and we are just. As long as we are right & just, we are free. Thats the price of eternal vigilance: govern yourself well.
Confiscated...!!!!!
WHAT...!
That means you would have to give it up to them....
Fat Fucking Chance of that one.
"The government announces..."
The government can announce anything it wants at this point. Nobody trusts them to do anything except to attack them, kill them, steal everything they have molest their dog and starve their goldfish.
Obama's been punked. Holder's been punked and McCain and Graham are about to be punked too.
FED better pack it up and get while the going is good.
I can just see it now. A bunch of jack booted thugs digging up everyones back yards, looking for gold. This article is BS.
They can't take what they can't find. There will be a huge black market in gold, that will difficult to trace. The people holding the gold aren't stupid!
Yeahbut...you know this YC: if buyers of PMs have provided ID details to their suppliers - which is increasingly the case and in some places already mandatory - the gold collection jackboots will have the evidence and demand it's handed over. Failure to do so will be a federal offence. Claiming it was lost in a boating accident might only work once or twice.
in some places already mandatory.
Who cares what's mandatory? Cash and carry , support your LCS.
digging?
Have you not noticed entire HOMES, ALL THE LAND being stolen in court with forged signatures?
But it must be legit because Linda Green says so.
I went to the local pawn/payday loan shop this afternoon to purchase 2 one oz gold eagles. The 20 yo girl behind the counter informed me that the price would be $2900 to which I agreed. Then she said that she needed to see my ID. I said why I am paying cash. I said it would be absurd for me to give you my home address when you know thethat I just spent 3k. She said that is our policy. I told her that I would take my business elsewhere.
At least you had the chance. I went in to the nearest pawn shop (statewide chain) to do the same and was told that they are only buying.
so much for being a "pawn" shop. Or was it a cash4gold? The cash4gold type places have never sold gold that I've ever seen. Pawn shop yes, but at least around my parts there's a cash-counter for testing, taking the gold, and handing over paper. None are to be trusted: they pay no more than 60% of spot.
Damn right. It's a no-good policy meant to spy. It's not like you're selling the gold and they want to "make sure it's not stolen" they already have the gold and once they verify the cash is legit they have ZERO need to know. None.
It's not going to be a all out confiscation like before but there are other ways to try and curb the phyisical demand from the public side.
One is banning or restricting it's transportation, another is just insane premiums over spot or import duties.
If one was to have a gold mm prosthetic device perhaps from a unfortunate smelting accident they wouldnt take it would they? I mean a prosthetic device- oh the humanity!
401(k)s and residential property taxes are much easier targets for tax revenue/confiscation.
one does not exclude the other.
Gold shorts need market panic to close those shorts green? Other than that... well the confiscation is possible but not efficient method to suck peoples wealth. Generally all what is needed is to pound some numbers into their computer and bang you are penniless. Or even jailed.
Meanwhile the spooks monitoring this (and other sites ) discussion on avoiding confiscation, are having a field day. Whatever you decide to do, don't broadcast it on a public forum, unless you're playing the double-double-triplecross game.
If this starts to happen I bet a few ppl will go "POSTAL" me included.
The western PTB are winning battles back to back right now, but it's a losing war they fight. The majority of the au/ag is gone for good to the east, and that loss will not, cannot be compensated even by confiscation. If they do, we'll have civil unrest and blood in every street. Those will be dark dark days, for ALL, the little guys, the phyzz holders, and the "elites" as ALL realize that TWAWKI is gone for good. Best of luck to all.
Lets think this out logically.
There is no reason for the government itself to confiscate gold unless we are going on some kind of a gold standard. It literally would serve no purpose. If we did confiscate gold, it would mean we are planning to go on a gold standard and it would run to several thousand dollars an ounce overnight on the global markets. So what the confiscators are saying is that everyone else on the planet will suddenly become rich, but the people in the USA will lose and be unable to take advantage of the new gold price. Further, no one in America has any gold to take anyway. It would be GD embarrassing to see the results of a gold confiscation here.
The only reason gold would be confiscated would be to save the banks who are short gold or who owe gold to the Fed and Treasury. But there is no way this could be done via the government. The government is not going to pass a law where they steal from you to give to private banks while admitting they have no gold in government vaults. What the government will do is ignore banks telling people that their gold is all gone and other bank related gold misconduct. If there is any sort of confiscation it will be in the form of bank fraud involving large concentrations of gold.
The reality is the government is far more likely to end up confiscating banks, farms, utilities, oil companies, and arms manufacturers than gold. Collectivism is nothing if not predictable.
They could also take the gold the easy way - just do gold QE. All the Fed has to do is buy gold with printed dollars. They won't get everyone's gold, but so what? They will get enough, and more importantly will suck it up from outside the USA as well. It might even have more economic impact than buying bonds. And there is a lot more gold outside the US than inside it.
The only way gold would be confiscated today is if the USG had to make a payment in gold to a foreign power that could not be defaulted on. If we bought flying saucer technology from the lizard men on the other side fo the galaxy, and they had to be paid in gold, you can bet that they would be paid in the amount of gold specified in the contract, and the USG would do whatever it takes to obtain that gold.
Right, print and buy, or if really needy nationalize the mines. Why is it taking 7 yrs to get Germany's already owned gold back to them? probably because its being bought on the open market, because it ain't sitting in a pretty pile like it was supposed to be.
The article is one big pile of poop with an agenda.
Read FDR's personal letters - F.D.R.: His Personal Letters, 1928-1945, edited by Elliott Roosevelt (New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce, 1950)
Read the series of books on his public letters and addresses - especially 1933 and 1934. Understand the monetary system back then, how it developed after WW2, during the Kennedy years (white house tapes discussing the concerns of 500 tons a month being shipped out), Nixon in Aug '71, the Smithsonian Agreement, etc.
Please remember that FDR also confiscated silver, there were postings of the largest holders in the United States, and it was confiscated by forcing of mintage into coins with huge arbitrary seniorage charges that FDR decided almost at whim.
What does the average citizen hold today in coin or bar form, probably less than an ounce of Au and Ag.
In really extreme times, precious metals are not used, they go into hiding until some sort of civil behaviour returns.
No German gold is digged in Mali... thats why it takes 7 years to gather it. So there no way to buy such amounts of gold from the market. But the counterparty risk never realises on FED...
You can't get very far with print and buy. Once started, the price picks momentum and in a matter of days you'd have no bids.
I think they get a lot more gold by manipulating the price down and fooling the miners into "hedging" their position.
If there is any sort of confiscation it will be in the form of bank fraud involving large concentrations of gold.
Spot on. Furthermore, they are already doing this on a daily basis.
The government will not tolerate anything which might act as an alternative currency. Control of currency is how they maintain control of pretty much every aspect of your life and iI is the currency that makes America what it is.
Why this article is one of the first nearly honest treatment of the issue it glosses over the reality I believe: first they make it illegal for you to hold it or use it then they offer you something small in exchange for it. Go ahead and bury it - will be like staying submerged to hide from those who would capture you how long can you wait. Once they have chased it out of circulation they've accomplished much of what they want in short term.
And they would love for you to move your money to safe havens off shore that's the first place to look for it.
Give unto ceasar what is ceasars
how long can you wait? Generations.
Let's try another logical approach.
In this logical approach it is presumed the government & their bankster masters are at good ease when the rest of us are poor.
In this regard we must rely upon them for debt & their web of wage manipulation to ensure we can't save up for needs.
In this regard ALL assets are to be confiscated by any excuse & mechanism available.
Gold, house, land for growing food, the food itself if grown on the land, special insurance regimes we have yet to think of in their diabolical invention, and so on.
If pure asset confiscation at any price up-front was the end-goal rather than the mechanism then the mechanism would be printing money and they'd openly buy your assets for whatever you want - then keep printing money. This is not an end-goal, it is a stepping stone.
Wait... If gold becomes confiscated, how can we use it to buy anything with any value?
It means we have to hand in our gold regardless of what happens, in which case there is no point holding onto it. You will be arrested if you try to transact with it. So as a Gold Bug, I have decided to sell my physical gold holdings on the weekend.
How do we transact in a post-confiscation era? It doesn't work, gold is made worthless unless converted to fiat... It's crazy! We won't be made to transact in physical gold, it will only be backed by gold on the note, i.e. anyone holding physical gold would be arrested.
As if they are going to let us redeem it like the old gold standard if the goal is to keep gold in the hands of the government... Think about it guys! Why would they let us redeem, in fact they will just give us paper gold, probably in a fractional form!
in a post-confiscation era who gives a fuck what laws they make. They forced us into being criminals the day they trashed the Constitution and became a cuntry other than the one we used to pledge allegiance to. That country is disappearing fast.
I bury my stuff. Only one another person in the world knows where it is at and it ain't my wife. No one else.
If the Libs[same ol Nazis] confiscate, won't they be using purchase records ? If they raid my premise and find nothing, will they resort to teeth pulling like the Libs in Germany did or worse?
How far will they go? How far will I go?
My line in the sand is beer confiscation
Anything but that.
"I bury my stuff. Only one another person in the world knows where it is at and it ain't my wife"
Slow-clap for you my friend, slow clap for you.
A hole in the ground works like a charm.
Anything you own that has a paper trail is fair game for the US gov't.
Once the confiscation starts, cast the Au into bullets and smile when you fork it over at 2700 fps.
If our mil loses enough strength we've got an ass-whipping coming for decades of foreign intervention, our gov may be the least of our worries
Gold is only good when it is sold... a very poor investment over the last 33 years since it last peaked at $800...bonds did better.
like they say its not a typical investment, it's insurance for chaotic times and a store of wealth, wealth not necessarily measured in terms of USD. If times become chaotic enough and there's a serious fuel shortage, and you have to relocate, you can carry on your person a lot of wealth stored as gold, 1 rifle, and if it's a .22, 1000 rds ammo. Things can happen that force you to relocate and not be able to transport all the other survival gear/food/water you've been collecting. With gold you can barter once you get where you're going. Red Dawn Bitchez
That's why before I started stacking I bought a canoe.
FOFOA on confiscation:http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/08/confiscation-anatomy-part-2.html
verdict...unlikely.... because gold is not part of the monetary system. Roosevelt needed to take it for devaluation purposes. The USG could seize any asset but this time gold will not be in the same position it was in 1933.
except gold IS part of the monetary system, used in gold-leasing and on the balance sheet of every central bank and in their vaults (with exceptions where we suspect less/none in vault vs what's on paper).
It's just not money for serfs. Serfs don't use $1000 bills either but they are legal tender (varies by jurisdiction: Canada yes, US I'm not sure anymore, never checked on Australia)
it's all in your head - no more confiscation
#brainwallet