This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Majority Of Americans Don't Mind Being Spied Upon, Pew Study Finds
In what is likely the most disappointing, if not unexpected, news of the day, we find that according to a just released Pew Research study, a substantial majority, or 56% of Americans, "say the National Security Agency’s (NSA) program tracking the telephone records of millions of Americans is an acceptable way for the government to investigate terrorism." Only 41% object to having every phone conversation intercepted, investigated, analyzed, and recorded for posterity. Sorry Edward Snowden: you just threw your life away for nothing. The sheep have been properly and thoroughly conditioned and brainwashed, which is why they continue to get precisely the government they so rightfully deserve.
More from Pew:
The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center and The Washington Post, conducted June 6-9 among 1,004 adults, finds no indications that last week’s revelations of the government’s collection of phone records and internet data have altered fundamental public views about the tradeoff between investigating possible terrorism and protecting personal privacy.
It just gets better:
Currently 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy. Just 34% say it is more important for the government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats.
These opinions have changed little since an ABC News/Washington Post survey in January
2006. Currently, there are only modest partisan differences in these opinions: 69% of Democrats say it is more important for the government to investigate terrorist threats, even at the expense of personal privacy, as do 62% of Republicans and 59% of independents.
However, while six-in-ten or more in older age groups say it is more important to investigate terrorism even if it intrudes on privacy, young people are divided: 51% say investigating terrorism is more important while 45% say it is more important for the government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible threats.
The survey finds that while there are apparent differences between the NSA surveillance programs under the Bush and Obama administrations, overall public reactions to both incidents are similar. Currently, 56% say it is acceptable that the NSA “has been getting secret court orders to track telephone calls of millions of Americans in an effort to investigate terrorism.”
In January 2006, a few weeks after initial new reports of the Bush administration’s surveillance program, 51% said it was acceptable for the NSA to investigate “people suspected of involvement with terrorism by secretly listening in on telephone calls and reading e-mails between some people in the United States and other countries, without first getting court approval to do so.”
Perhaps least surprising is that once the most vocal objector to "Dubya" pervasive surveillance, the Democrats, are now its most ardent defenders. And so once again, political party line stupidity trumps common sense.
Republicans and Democrats have had very different views of the two operations. Today, only about half of Republicans (52%) say it is acceptable for the NSA to obtain court orders to track phone call records of millions of Americans to investigate terrorism. In January 2006, fully 75% of Republicans said it was acceptable for the NSA to investigate suspected terrorists by listing in on phone calls and reading emails without court approval.
Democrats now view the NSA’s phone surveillance as acceptable by 64% to 34%. In January 2006, by a similar margin (61% to 36%), Democrats said it was unacceptable for the NSA to scrutinize phone calls and emails of suspected terrorists.
Of course, if the president was Romney, his head would already be on a stick. Metaphorically speaking of course.
Finally, the biggest danger to America it appears is not a turnkey totalitarian tyrant, but broad apathy as it turns out only one in four follow NSA News "very closely." The other 3 in 4 are far more concerned with who gets to fake-wed the fake-bachelorette this season, or who is the victor of Dancing with the Stars.
Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records very closely. This is a relatively modest level of public interest. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.
Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.
Attention to these stories is higher among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents: 32% are following reports about the government tracking phone records very closely, compared with 24% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents. The partisan gap in interest is almost identical when it comes to reports about government collecting email and other online information: 30% of Republicans and Republican-leaners are following very closely compared with 20% of Democrats and Democratic-leaners.
Overall, those who disagree with the government’s data monitoring are following the reports somewhat more closely than those who support them. Among those who find the government’s tracking of phone records to be unacceptable, 31% are following the story very closely, compared with 21% among those who say it is acceptable. Similarly with respect to reports about government monitoring of email and online activities, 28% of those who say this should not be done are following the news very closely, compared with 23% of those who approve of the practice.
Those who wish to be even more depressed can read on here.
As for Edward Snowden, hopefully this will teach you to throw away your life to liberate a bloated and apathetic society that couldn't care less if the slaughter-gate was slammed shut behind it, and just wants to have its rose-colored blinders on in perpetuity.
»
- 25415 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Don't sweat it. Happens to me all the time. As in investing, being early is the same as being wrong around here sometimes.
Shoulda seen it the time I posted up that Germany had effectively taken over Europe, but without firing a shot. I got hammered on that one. Two days later an article saying the same thing was posted up and people gushed over it. Shit happens. Gotta have a thick skin around here.
You should try a little trick I learned from the BLS. Just don't count the down arrows!
More than you know:
'The secret report that shows how the Nazis planned a Fourth Reich …in the EU"
"The paper is aged and fragile, the typewritten letters slowly fading. But US Military Intelligence report EW-Pa 128 is as chilling now as the day it was written in November 1944.
The document, also known as the Red House Report, is a detailed account of a secret meeting at the Maison Rouge Hotel in Strasbourg on August 10, 1944. There, Nazi officials ordered an elite group of German industrialists to plan for Germany’s post-war recovery, prepare for the Nazis’ return to power and work for a ‘strong German empire’. In other words: the Fourth Reich."
http://dprogram.net/2009/05/10/msm-revealed-the-secret-report-that-shows...
If there were Nazis, then the commies running this country would all be dead.
'People VOTED FOR this.'
Approximately half of eligible voters, including myself, do not vote for the precise purpose of falsifying this dipshit rhetorical claim.
Fuck voting; fuck Democrats; fuck Republicans. Fuck 'em all, each and every traitorous one of them.
I call bullshit on this poll. I'd wager they made this data up out of thin air - made to order.
Market Research = Prove what the client is paying you to prove.
I'm sure the made the poll, and made the calls.
I'm also positive they made sure the list of people the called would give the desired outcome.
This poll is about as bullshit as the poll that said 96% of the american public wanted more gun control when you can't get 70% of the public to agree water is wet.
If my memory serves me well, Pew is one of the more "liberal" "left-wing" leaning pols, meaning their results have over the past many years been hugely as in "favorably" biased to protecting and facilitating the current "party" in VichyDC.
I'll bet you that a Rasmussen, which is consistently more accurate when it at least comes down to numerical proof as in voting patterns, etc., would not be so "benign" with respect to the intrusions into people's privacy.
Least I fucking hope so....
knukles,
There is surely selection bias in the Pew poll, just as there is self-selection bias among people who comment on NYT articles.
Disturbingly, comments on one Snowden-related NYT article were more against him than for him.
Even after adjusting for selection bias, it is clear that two substantial minorities do not care about liberty: (1) partisans who back their party's president no matter what; (2) sheeple who only care about material comforts.
After decades of mass brainwashing via media and public schools, there is no quick fix.
Even Daniel Ellsberg wrote in a Guardian editorial yesterday that 'Obviously, the U.S. is not now a police state.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/edward-snowden-united-stasi-america
Thus, even after his close brush with prison under Nixon, lifetime activist Ellsberg can't accept that he's ALREADY living in a police state.
knukles, we got a problem ...
Yes, yes, unfortunately the majority of Americans are morons, on the dole, and don't pay any income taxes (the poorest and the corporatist).
world war Z indeed.
Take out the word terrorism and replace with any reason whatsoever, and you'll probably get a different result.
When you say "terrorism" people think, "I'm not a terrorist so they aren't spying on me. So it's OK because they'll stop a terror attack."
To them I say, "Naive and stupid is no way to go through life."
I don't believe one single stat coming out of a sample of 1,004 sheeple. How do we know that they didn't just call right wing nuts, who would naturally be willing to bend over for the NSA? Snowden should be rewarded and lauded for his bravery. Fuck the Washington Post and Pew. These fucks think that they have their pulse on John Q. Public? Yeah, well, I THINK NOT, LAMESTREAM MEDIA BITCHEZ!!
All great fascist regimes need rags like the Washington Post and quasi-scientific "pollsters" like PEW to alter thought and behavior.
Most polls are done via calls to land line phones. So in looking at these numbers you need to ask yourself 1) who still owns a land line phone and 2) who takes the time to talk to pollsters.
The answer is little old ladies who are bored with talking to their 10 cats.
Not exactly representative.
I have a land line. It's the telecommunication equivalent of an AK-47 - that and an old school buttset. "When you absolutely, positively have to make that call." And I still have a modem. It's called "Plan B".
No way. I do not believe it for one second. I've heard a handful of people parrotting that it's okay as long as it protects them from terrorists and every single one of them smell like paid rats. They all use the same lines. It's pure spin.
So when do people begin to realize that democracy is a sure path to tyranny? When it's too late? Read the founders, they all thought democracy was a lunatic idea. We're about to find out why. :)
FUCK PEW
Talking about pew, where has Lew receeded to these last few weeks?
I am disappointed but not surprised. As long as people are getting their food stamps and disability insurance checks, and can sit on their butts in front of their 60 " TV's watching the latest episode of American Idol or The Kardashians, they don't give a shit.
"Majority of Americans Don't Mind Getting Gang-Raped in Prison"
Yeah, that "Getting Gang-Raped in Prison" is one of the most popular Reality Series going!
I especially like that big dude, Bubba...
remember that in every revolution, only about 10-20 percent of the population is needed...........the rest are sheep.......................mehhhhhhh
I sent a few texts around in the last day about this and did not get one response. Finally, annoyed, I sent a few texts to my buddy breaking his balls and he wrote "dude, stop. They are listening".
I'm so freaking annoyed with people and their ignorance right now that I have really hard time feeling any sorrow for them when the great die off comes.
I am fucked either way. I used to irritate everyone around me because I would not shut the hell up about this stuff. Now that I found you guys I have pretty much gone silent around the people that I used to yell at. My silence concerns them more. I can't win. I am just going to have to get the hell outta here.
Stick around. You can yell at me anytime you want fonz.
As a goldbug, I'm a sucker for abuse.
I'm very glad you are here.
Thanks, I should probably clarify. I meant NY. I plan on sticking around "here".
Phew. Okay. I keep seeing commercials for NY that describe it as the most business friendly state around, everyone lives in total harmony, and anyone can prosper, you know because its so business friendly. When I first saw it I thought The Onion had taken out an ad.
There are only two business's in NY, federal employment and Wall Street, so, maybe they were telling the truth after all?
Kito things are coming along good thanks. Some of my red swiss chard seems to have suffered some disease but otherwise the highlight of my day is picking something out of my garden and eating it.
Cougar I can't keep my moth shut. I never could. It just is what it is with me.
It's fine, it means you have not lost your sanity. We are each doing the best we can. In the end it will take both shouting from the roof tops and quiet organizing in the alleys to combat the dark days coming.
One if by land, two if by sea. Someone had to ride into that gathering night.
I think the guys in the alley are going to hang in there a little longer...
Sorry Fonz, here upstate (north of ulster ex-albany) we got lots of farmers and open space. You're talking NYC/LI/Albany wall street bullshit. If only we could separate upstate and form a new state. Maybe call it Iroquois or Seneca. Something native would be nice
we can go 50/50 on a cabin near the canadian border......how are the cucumbers coming along????
I have never -- except around my wife and kids -- vented in public on any of this shit. Wife happens to be really hip and we have meaningful conversations around it. I counsel her to keep her trap shut outside the home. The kids need no such admonition, they are way more savvy than they look.
Really worried about the next leg down. I have an active imagination so it's not hard for me to visualize troops in the streets, door-to-door searches, "visits" from the FBI. Want no part of it. We'll be "running in place" by simply staying out of their target sights.
None of us are going to change anything now. The train has gone off the rails. We're not going to save even a single person from grief, as we are all going to get more grief than we bargained for. Waiting for the fall and then moving into the resulting cracks is the best any of us can realistically hope for.
I hear that. Low profile. Ms. Remus isn't quite as "hip to what's happenin'" as I'd like, but she's a smart gal (hard science degree) starting to put the dots together.
I have a hard science degree -- in fact I have two of them. Tell her I said it was okay to start freaking out in that cold, dispassionate and systematic way we hard-core egg heads like to do things.
Black Crowes - Seeing Things
I find it hard to shed a tear
You brought it all on yourself my dear
Wrong, yes I may be
Don't leave a light on for me
'Cause I ain't comin' home
It hurts me baby to be alone
Yes, it hurts me baby
A hundred years will never ease
Hearing things I won't believe
I saw it with my own two eyes
All the pain that I can't hide
And this pain starts in my heart
And this love tears us apart
You won't find me bent down on my knees
Ain't bendin' over backwards baby
Not to please
'Cause I'm seeing things for the first time
I'm seeing things for the first time, oh yeah
I'm seeing things for the first time
In my life, in my life
I used to dream
Of better days that never came
Sorry ain't nothin' to me
I'm gone and that's the way it must be
So please I've done my time
Lovin' you is such a crime
You won't fine me down on, on my knees
Won't fine me over backwards baby
Just to please
'Cause I'm seeing things for the first time
I"m seeing things for the first time
Seeing things for the first time
Oh I'm seeing things for the first time
Yeah, seeing things for the first time
I'm seeing things for the first time
Yeah, I'm seeing things for the first time
In my life, in my life
'EMBRACE THE EPIPHANY'
See Fonz, that is one of the benefits of the formal confirmation of suspicion that Big Brother is there... for real...
Now people are scared and will follow the "party line" display greater fealty to the powers leading them through the great paradise...
You'll just find more ever so dispirited, slumped shoulders and hollowed looks.
Gonna do fucking wonders for the economy, I tell ya, fucking wonders relighting animal and entrepreneurial spirits.
"You know how it is when you go to be the subject of a psychology experiment,
and nobody else shows up, and you think maybe that's part of the experiment?
I'm like that all the time". -- Steven Wright
quite franky, im tired of bothering with people anymore.......they are content with the market making new highs.....with their real estate property value resuming the upward climb.......with their home equity and auto and credit card rates at all time lows......................they dont want the boat rocked........................
So where is ZeroHedge Island?
And how many ounces does it cost to buy a lot there?
Zero Hedge Island is not a place; it is a frame of mind. It cost no ounces to reside there - you just need to have the ounces.
Exceptional comment! Thank you.
The data will be collated and sold to municipals (to collect levies, fines and taxes) and corporations (to target customers). They can pretty much model you, with this shit.
The answer? Unplug. They can only run what's on the wire.
That is indeed the answer. However it is a lot harder than most imagine.
Anyone posting on ZH and expecting to remain anonymous simply does not get it at all.
data will be collated and sold to municipals and corps -- BINGO.
is that Buttle with a "B" or Tuttle with a "T"?
I don't care if they continue to investigate me, I just wish they'd stop tossing Nutri-Grain 'soft bake' wrappers all over my porch. They, of all people, should know I never eat chocolate. C'mon fellas, can we get a bit more focus, please !
And 2% just don't know? For fuck sakes already. Why am I not surprised?
This whole incident was designed to piss people like me off to no end just to see what we will do I am starting to think. And that is where they are fucking up, I am not doing anything but to wait and watch them turn on themselves and let their avarice mutually consume each other. It would appear that what they are trying to do here is ignite an American Spring of sorts. Why bother, we all know what is going to happen to the fiat of the world and they are starting to sweat.
Majority of Americans are dumber than dogshit and believe what their televisions say.
if they didn't believe the television - they would turn it off.
The Ministry of Information says it is so.
Yup. Your prison guard is in the house next door.
Stupidity has consequences... and a majority of Americans will discover them soon enough.
50% of people have an IQ under 100, and 6% work for the Agencies.
Statistics explained!
If you think about average inteligence, 50% are not that bright - that only leaves 6% you have to figure out
i read something i think here - about 2 years ago - and i never laughed so hard in my life.
something like 'by definition - 50% of people are below average intelligence, so, you come up with an idea dumb enough that the 50% can grasp it - and one guy having a bad day - and you are elected. that's our government'.'
too true.
A lot of people are so easily intimidated that they want to give the surveyor the answer they want to hear so as to avoid complications that arise from being singled-out as different.
poll question: Do you know that the govt knows everywhere you are and hears everything you say.
answer: really?...I did not know that but now that I do, I'm so happy with the govt. They can do everything they want. I am soooo happy....(dodges into the bushes).
Thank you, that pretty well covers it.
They should have asked "Do you mind being treated the same as a suspected terrorist?" "Do you approve of a database, maintained by the government, recording every electronic transaction you engage in including your text messages, photos, IMs and phone calls?"
"Do you like being treated like a criminal?"
"Do you consider yourself to be a terrorist?"
"are you aware that mere suspicion of being a terrorist is all that is required to freeze all your bank accounts, arrest you, detain you without a trial or a charge, and/or possibly kill you in cold blood on the street?"
It doesn't matter. There's always 40% of the population that can barely get dressed in the morning.
I just commented on this poll being very sad indeed as it also shows the level of digital literacy in the US and besdies the topic has now switched to how this is legal...what happened to transparency?
I have had a campaign for a couple years now and maybe it will fly with licensing all those sharing and selling data, comapnies, universities, etc. get a license so we know who you are. Second, have a federal website of disclosures kept up by those who sell and list what kind of data they sell and to who.
Third excise tax those making billions selling data, i.e. Walgreens up to about a billion a year in selling data only. Help fund the NIH and FDA or even the cancer patietns who are suffereing with the sequester. Banks and comapnies that are too stingy otherwise should be happy to pay this tax modeled just like a sales tax, pay every quarter. Don't keep the license up, government can shut them down with selling data or lop on a huge fine...just what we are lacking...an avenue for regulation with privacy...a way to switch money back over to the 99%...at least a start.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/05/licensing-and-excise-taxing-data....
Hmmm...how much has Booz Hamilton made selling to the government...and you know our current CTO spent a little time there and is where he met George W's cousin and started a Health IT company, Athena. No security issues there:)
Seriously this survey is a joke and if you have not spoken to someone in technology, do it as this is alive and well in private industry scalping you as well. Government has to buy the technologies used from the private sector, remember that.
If more Americans who took this poll had watched the PBS series on Secret America, they might have had a few reervations or questions about how the spying works. Feinstein was just as useless in her talk as she is just a mapgie, and don't take that wrong as I like her but she's just repeating about a topic she doesn't really understand. Links for soem of the PBS videos below..kind of shocking in some area and they even itnerview a former FBI tech with him asking 'how much security do you want"..." if I tie it down too tight folks loose rights"...and the NSA spokeperson herself on their Las Vegas failure with using predictive analytics.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/06/nsa-data-mining-opens-need-for-di...
Again this survey is useless as to the content and the way it was conducted and as far as I am concerned is somewhat irrational and lacks context (grin).
The fuck heads in this country will never be aware,,,they love being fucked, it's a Stockholm syndrome. anyone who puts their ass on the line for these tit sucking government sheep are fucking idiots.....
Get the fuck out of here if you have the resources and talent... or stay behind like the Germans...
Where to go ,,,I don't giva a fuck you do the research
However Edward Snowden is a hero and I have the utmost respect for him, but he did it for an ungrateful people.
The good news is that we now know the true traitors among the 535; those that want to indict, incarcerate, or suicide Snowden. The Dems, like Feinstein, were always obvious, but it's interesting to see the Repubs out themselves
Repubs outed themselves in 1996 when they passed the first laws seizing assets from Americans who renounce citizenship ... straight out of the Soviet playbook.
Would that Newt Gingrich had been sincere about 'more freedom, less government.' But it was a ridiculous lie. In his recent presidential campaign, Gingrich was outdoing Romney in licking Israel's boots.
the public school system has been a success according to the central planners
School taxes are like the Chinese system of making the families of executed convicts pay for the bullet to the back of the head.
But iOS 7 is coming! The new Xbox is coming! Halo 97 1/2 is coming! All is well!
There is no doubt in my mind that a certain percentage of this planet's inhabitants(discounting animals, insects, and other things that can't drive a car) are going to be on the losing end of 'What's Next!'...
Low information morons don't care about ANYTHING..... Except has my SNAP card been reloaded yet!
Yes Manuflip; and your response was already anticipated. Remember the divination of 'white rage' a few years ago. 2" thick plexiglass at Chase bank teller windows. They just take another step, then another, seeing and calculating how far they can go. One day we wake up with $6 gas, national guard at the pumps and Free Shit nation in the streets. And no Internet. Where would you be if your iPhone was down 3 days? How about power?
Unplug now and get used to it. GLTA who are sincere.
This may be a simple lie. People tend to follow the crowd. If we can be convinced that the crowd doesn't care then we are likely to abandon our uneasiness and "go along with everybody else" (even if the "everybody else" is fictitious).
The only time people use a Pew report or survey is to push their agenda. I wonder how much money Pew was paid to slant this one?
"Baahh!"
http://www.free-hdwallpapers.com/wallpapers/animals/30881.jpg
1004 people surveyed hardly reflects the views of 300,000,000 Americans. That's patently ridiculous. I know one thing, this American minds it very fucking much thank you. Any American that doesn't mind being spied on can let the government set camera's up in throughout their house and cars and live in their own version of Jersey Shore. I'll be in the minority I suppose when I politely decline camera's and recording devicse and be allowed to live under the protections the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are supposed to afford me.
So it's ok for the government to spy in any manner on the american people yet government officials like the IRS are allowed to be protected by the same constitution and take the 5th amendment all the while professing her innocence. Hmmmm..... That's odd, the double standard. Well I guess it's not odd in our "new normal" but it should be odd and not appropriate. The American people should have total access to every person that gets paid by and works in sevice to the american taxpayer. What other job prevents the people writing the paychecks from knowing the activities engaged in at the workplace by the people receiving the paycheck? In fact those receiving the paycheck seem to have unusual powers over the paycheck writer. Ass backwards if you think about it.
If you've been collecting everybody's phone calls, how hard would it be to figure out who to call to get this result? Easy Peasy.
Basically, America has been completely pussified. A land of pussies where a threat by the Terror Man causes to run to Uncle Government saying "Take away my privacy and my freedoms but don't let the bad man hurt me."
Pussified.
Yeah , I knew it !! We are retarded by nature !!
I think this article is extremely misleading.
It is not polling the main issue at hand. The article discusses "getting warrants to track phone calls and emails". That is not the issue. The issue is tracking phone calls and emails of all Americans regardless of anything. Even congressmen.
Interesting how the spin is twisting and turning it.
Or, you can read the small print:
LOL, the Tyler Durden slapdown.
Such a bullshit poll.
So if you were one of the ones polled Dungness, then you would fall into the "Don't know" column? Pew should add "Don't Understand" to the list of possible responses. I think we would see some very different numbers if that were to occur.
Pew should add "Don't Understand" to the list of possible responses.
... along with "No hablo inglés, cabrón, CARAJO!''
I would blame the result of this poll in what I call the "Facebook effect".
People just line up and pics the concept of privacy down the drain.
Facebook is a wonderful form of psychological preparation toward a surveillance state.
"Low information voter" my ass. I blame soccer moms and hipsters.
Definitely soccer moms. The hipsters are just trendies, soccer moms are actually afraid enough to beg for enslavement.
#stopthesufferageofwomen
OTOH, much of the questions were worded to imply that surveillance REALLY DID prevent "terrorist attacks"...
Now back to reality TV
Whateve's, hey, why hasn't Kanye been hanging out with KK as much as he used to?
I am somewhere between who gives a shit what the majority thinks, this ain't a national democracy AND fuck this shithole, I'm out.
The best rated comment on the CNN rstory about Snowden right now is:
""Edward Snowden, great American hero and true patriot. Thank you Mr. Snowden....stay safe & God Bless."
The comment has over 4600 up votes and only 258 down votes.
There are over 21,000 comments,most of which are for Snowden & against the NSA.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/10/politics/nsa-leak/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
'Mericans do not care about the TSA scanners at the airports too. The lines of opt outs for pat downs are non existent and the few people who refuse to be microwaved are delayed and placed there for a while for the sheeple to see while they are hearded to the harmless scanner.
I am sure that the opt outs are now in some 'list' and their faces have been stored via face recognition software and linked to their various internet profiles.
On the other hand George Orwell's 1984 fictional novel is breaking sales records:
RT @GuardianUS
In past 24 hours, Orwell's 1984 has been climbing Amazon's list of Movers & Shakers. Sales are up 83%. http://trib.al/Cg6pxEj
Ninteen Eighty Four has been a free text file for years.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100021.txt
Most of the American people are idiots, so I don't see the point.
A serious flaw in the survey would have to be that most people (I'm guessing 90%) simply have no idea what is the scope and technical basis for the current NSA efforts.
If after arriving home from shopping for clothes at the mall they got a phone call from the NSA asking why they bought the red sweater and not the blue one, most would just answer the question without a thought for the implications.
Someone is now going to flame me for trash-talking the common man. Brother, I am afraid to death for the common man. The bones of common men fill countless unmarked mass graves all over this planet. And it is their trusting nature and penchant for overlooking important clues that had them eventually standing bewildered on the edge of a pit they had dug with their own hands.
I will watch your back when I can cougar.
Someone is now going to flame me for trash-talking the common man.
LOL! An interesting person to be sure. Should anyone flame you old school style, I would expect that you would have a fair amount of support on ZH; old school style.
All your comments on this have been nailing it cougar. Another flaw with such surveys about sinister official govt spying, is that some respondents may feel their responses can be identified with them, so may provide an 'answer' that serves their short-term interest in anonymity.
If people watched "COPS" and noticed how police detaining them, act on any small snippets of info which they can lever from intimidated idiots who are foolish enough to actually provide police with answers, which these cops then almost always use against them within minutes, they might realize what's at stake in providing a police-state any answer or accurate information about anything you do or have done.
Because just like the police within COPS, a police-state is also NEVER out to protect you, it's always going to be looking for information to use against you, to intimidate and isolate and destroy you, and anyone connected to you, if they want. Thus promoting an atmosphere of betrayal and fear in necessary to divide and control. And information is the wedge they seek to divide us with.
The information is always used to isolate us, and to have people betray us, so that we'll be easily destroyed and find it hard to effectively defend ourselves. It's a classic method of bullies. 'Common-people' in this survey still don't realize that the mega-bully will single them out soon enough, as well, and by then it's far too late. The police don;t need a reason to fuck you up, and a polices state definitely doesn't give a toss about fucking you up without even a reason to do so.
In the end, unless we stand 'unified' (for want of a less sappy word) and refuse to betray and divide ourselves from others in fear ... then we will divide ... and that's all that's required for bully police state Govt to destroy us - piece by piece.
Allowing them more info just allows them greater speed and efficiency to do it, and do it with control, before we can act. The govt is surely not our friend, it's always more or less a home-grown enemy, a home-grown center of mass-terrorism. it's just been largely latent, until the past decade or so.
So?
If you know that the government is monitoring all of your calls, isn't it just self preservation to say that you don't mind them doing it when somebody calls to ask?
Never ignore the past!
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
-Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
-Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
-Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me
-and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Neimoller (1892-1984)
He was an ardent nationalist and prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitleer and spent the last 7 years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.
Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of pottage. Interesting that the name 'Esau' contains the initials 'USA' and 'EU'.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin
Was ex-CIA employee Edward Snowden right to leak documents exposing the government's secret surveillance program?
I would say the 45% who are anti or don't care means Obama gets away with this, unless he's caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl.
Sucks, but this shit should have been stopped 50 years ago, when the govt lied about Kennedy's assassination. It only went downhill from there. Nixon's resignation is the last time the system worked as it was supposed to.
If you can think of all this as the shortest route to a system full reset, it doesn't feel nearly as bad.
Why are those three options mutually exclusive- except that the poor little sheeple heads might explode if they had explain why they are not... It would have been be far more interesting and enlightening to have each participant weight their agreement with each of the 3 statements - then the raving techno lunatics responsible for CNN productions would even have a legitimate excuse to create 3-D interactive Venn diagrams...
after the responses i have gotten the last 3 years ......this 56% is WAY TOO LOW !!!!!!!!!!!
So many ZHers get so angry at the sheeple - as if they and you have the same IQ, education, world experiences, and ability to connect the dots.
They don't.
Guesstimating broadly, I'd say that to follow these discussions, you must have an IQ of at least 125 - 130. That eliminates a lot of the general population from the discussion.
They must be aware of the world as it really works - and be able to deal with that reality. If they could do that, they wouldn't be keeping up with Kim and JayZ, DWTS, Idol, and the latest porn on xhamster.com. Face it - they don't know, and they don't want to know.
So I'd like to suggest all this angst is just a wasted emotion on your part.
But I'd also like to suggest that those sheeple are not material to the way things go in America anyway.
We are.
We are because we can comprehend the consequences of what is occurring in our midst. We are because we can foresee the future outcome as an assault on human dignity. We are because we can connect the dots, and we know that it forms a hangman's noose around our necks.
So write them off. They are just going to go with whatever flow develops. They will adjust to whatever reallty they find themselves immersed into.
They are, in short, irrelevant to the discussion.
The discussion is between people like us, and those who are equally bright, equally worldly, equally able to connect the dots.
The difference is that we believe in the dignity and rights of humanity; they don't.
And that is why, every time they try to take over a period of history, they are ultimately removed from power.
I read the end of the Book, and we win.
-30-
You underestimate the ability of the very intelligent to be very dumb - socially, politically, economically, etc. A High IQ says nothing about one's ethics, or one's desire to know some relatively accurate version of the truth, or ability to resist certain forms of programming/control/manipulation,
The second-tier of modern industrial societies is compromised of exactly such people - smart, highly educated, informed, cultured professionals ... WHOSE POLITICO-ECONOMIC ROLE IS TO OVERSEE THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS OF SOCIETY, THEY ARE PAID, THAT IS, TO NOT LOOK OUTSIDE THE BOX, TO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY, TO ENFORCE THE RULES, AND TO PROPAGATE THENSTATUS QUO. IN OTHER WORDS, THEIR LIVELIHOODS DEPEND QUITE EXPLOCITLY ON SERVING THE STATUS QUO, WHICH MEANS SERVING THE ULTRA-ELITE.
That they are highly intelligent is beyond doubt. That they are bought, paid-for, co-opted, corrupted, brainwashed, programmed, sold-out, and generally quite fine with their managerial, bootlicking, enabling roles is equally obvious. The two are in no way mutually exclusive.
Noam Chomsky, gatekeeper though he be, is one of the few intellectuals who admits freely that a society's intellectual class is more often than not it's army of eager apologists and rationalizers (cheerleaders) for state power.
If anything intelligence simply allows people to construct more elaborate, nuanced, and technical rationalizations for ... anything.
PS: I emphatically disagree with your conclusion.
Totent...
"You underestimate the ability of the very intelligent to be very dumb"
That is a true statement. However, remember that this self-imposed standard also applies to you as well. Please do not take that as obtuse because I think that you are well spoken. I do enjoy most of your comments but every once in a while all we have a moron synapse misfire in our brains. All of us experience this phenomenon because none of us are perfect and that includes myself.
I am not sure that they even use IQ tests any longer in the U.S. I took one such IQ test in grade eight and scored, well, never mind. The fact of the matter, as I recall, is that towards the end of the two day testing, I became bored and just started making designs on the number two pencil only scanner sheet. I wanted out of there and schewl in general.
Later, in university, I had to take the Briggs-Meyer test. It is hard to say if that test is any indicator of anything but I came back as an introverted-extrovert with extreme perception abilities. Although the Briggs-Meyer test is debatable as to accuracy, I do have an ability to perceive what others are thinking before they even think it or say it. That's not braggadocio so please do not take it that way as others of higher intellects can deceive my perceptions with carefully chosen words at times.
To up the ante a bit or two, I had to take a test for a promotion I was about to receive a few years back. Yet again, another test of sorts to see if I was the correct personality and had the correct intellect type for the job. I took the test and did TOO WELL and HR suggested that they NOT promote me because they thought I would likely get bored with the job. Hell, I could have told them that I was already bored with the job since I had already been doing it for everyone else. I got the promotion anyway and immediately started looking at the financials. I will save the drama, three years later I was fired because I had caught them in so many financial statement lies and had hard copy to prove it. I called bullshit and basically started sending e-mails that were, shall we say, not what a multinational corporate structure would like to have stored on their servers but I can assure that they are still there. I became a liability for that reason as well as my involvement in the Ron Paul campaigns and involvement in local politics.
I simply call perception my Bullshit-O-Meter these days. If I let my perceptions get out of control and allow my imagine dragons to go wild I would be in depression. I refuse to let a gift turn into a curse. Never take an asset and turn it into a liability.
Still, your initial assertion stands Totent and I must respect it. But please consider that I, and my family, have paid a tremendous price for my political activism and put my family at risk simply because I demanded the truth on everyone else's behalf who would not get off their asses to do anything. In fact, of all of the Ron Paulers that I know, and they are many; every single one of has lost our jobs over the effort. We rebound but it is stressful to say the least.
the "official" iq tests are biased in so many ways.
The kind of intellect required to handle HOSTILE actions like military or lies is unique.
The kind of intellect required to figure out how to design nuclear reactors is unique.
The kind of intellect required to figure out how to build skyscrapers is unique.
I question this: how many of these unique people CREATE the IQ tests, segments of them?
If dumbfucks are writing the questions the answers can't be that helpful.
MIS, I am sure that ZHers appreciate your succinct comment;
"I'd say that to follow these discussions, you must have an IQ of at least 125 - 130. That eliminates a lot of the general population from the discussion."
This is also the reason why you see some fights going on around here from time to time. Alpha male vs alpha male with an occasional alpha female in there. It's a beautiful thing but it is also the reason that we will be the first targets to be liquidated in this ever increasing fascistic globalist state. This would be why we have angst and the best action many of us can take is to let it out in the form of our posts and blogs. ZH is obviously one of our preferred platforms to do so for the time being. Some of us can see a few chess moves ahead in the game that is being played. To that end, many of us have very specialized knowledge and expertise in specific areas of finance, investing, sciences, engineering, arts, cultures, languages, et al that few others posses. It is for this reason that we come here to express our discontent and at times seek some reinforcement.
As for some of the foul language and the accusations of being lowbrow that are sometimes applied to ZHers, nothing could be further from the truth. Give me ten hardcore ZHer's to form a team and we could take over just about any comment board if we wanted to. That idea, however, is precisely why we do not do anything of the sort because doing so would violate our independent nature. Many of us would not be so angst ridden, such as myself, and would not be so pissed off if we were not subjected to being shoved around, stolen from and treated like cattle for slaughter. All we really want, is for the state to leave us, our families and our neighbors alone but they can't seem to do so. For all we have tried to do politically, at the expense ourselves and our careers, to try to effect some change in the system that exists; we have little to show for that effort thus far. That movement is still growing however because we do NOT GIVE UP.
I will NOT BOW DOWN to whoever thinks we need to kiss their ass. .Gov can cut the bullshit, drone me, and get it over with already. It is better to be dead than to live under tyranny.
MIS, I appreciate your thoughtful comment here as well as others you have posted in the past and look forward to more of your posts in the future so long as we are all still here.
Thank you for your very kind remarks. I appreciate all that are written agreeing, or disagreeing, with my premises and conclusions. I learn from all that are seriously posted.
Frankly, I feel surrounded by some of the finest minds and dignified people in the world of finance.
And yes, I also believe they are the most honest.
I truly hope that the demise of which we read won't occur, but I'm finding entirely too many things happening that I saw predicted on ZH. You have to give credit to those who are correct in their perceptions.
Again, thank you for your remarks, and thank you to all who make ZH the most intellectually rewarding world-class financial board.
-30-
The end of the books I've read don't have so happy an ending.
Oh, but that xhamster thing is actually fairly entertaining :D
LOL
You write some really great posts. Thank you for taking time to reply to mine.
-30-
I just can't help but switch fluidly between good factoids some would like to deny, good embedded links in off-hand comments, and trolling. Given that... I'm sure some are tempted to hit -1 on the spot but hey, it's fight club.
Men watch women. Women watch themselves being watched.
So true.
Stare at a woman's ass.
Within five seconds, she will swivel her head and look directly at you.
Women are very much aware of what they are doing when they are doing their ass that particular way, just to make you look.
It is the oldest game in the book. Men and women have been playing it for 5 million years. The women are probably getting more pleasure from it than they want the men to realize.
However this new game is blowing people completely the fuck away. Nothing they know or desire has prepared them for the level of unwanted scrutiny they are now signed up for. It is going to hit them like a bolt from the blue, invisibly and inexplicably, and they will be as thunder-struck is children before the storm.
The expectations born of 5 million years are now our enemy. We wise up or we fall off the edge of the world. The next generation of wild children will come from the loins of the canny and quick, or they will come wild not at all but be born to a cage.
Cougar, I am surprised that you do not have more green arrows since that is what everyone seems to be concerned about around here. Since I said so, I green arrowed you for this statement:
"It is the oldest game in the book. Men and women have been playing it for 5 million years. The women are probably getting more pleasure from it than they want the men to realize."
True statement. I am old enough now to know better. Usually. What really matters to young males, because I used to be one, is to screw the living hell out of any female he can get into bed. As males grow older, something evil starts to happen to them in that the other head starts to relinquish it's control on the actual head that needs to be functioning. Meanwhile, female sex drive starts to increase as they age.
So it goes.
I appreciate your posts Cougar as you have had some great ones.
Majority Of Americans Don't Mind Being Spied Upon, Pew Study Finds: Bullshit!
Hell, even as little kids we don't like our parents watching us all the time. Most kids can't wait to be old enough to leave the nest and they're just kids. Most polls are bullshit most of the time. If it walks like a fuck and talks like a fuck, then fuck yeah it's fuckin' bullshit.
Walmart has cameras hidden in their bathroom stalls and they watch people wipe their butts and record whether they wash their hands or not. It is to protect Americans from getting hepatitis.
... and to identify closet coprophagiacs for medical intervention.
LMFAO!
Surveillance is a logical consequence of the virtualization of social relationships. A virtual society built on selective (mostly positive) feedback leads to "abnormal" people. These "abnormal" people start to question the real society and eventually start to fight it. In a non-virtual society its hard to dig into "abnormal" things and there are too many people giving you negative feedback, making it hard to procceed.
The state has to criminalize that and mark it dislikable. Thinking counter-nationalistic should cause a bad conscience.
Surveillance is most efficient once officially confirmed. Its not about fighting terrorism its about protecting the state and the power structure.
I gave you an up arrow. I hope that's OK.
So, bullet holes count as down arrows right?
wtf?
This isn't "society" seeking surveillance this is the STATE.
This isn't everyone peeping on everyone from being stuck indoors too long.
This is the STATE using it as an excuse to smack down anyone undermining the criminal activity OF the state.
Conflating one into the other isn't valid.
Any acceptance by citizens is because of apathy or failure to understand. They gain nothing from this and do not participate in it.
Where do these people live? Are they spead around the country? If not, tell me where they don't live, and I might move there.
Having polled the ten members of my family under 30 over the weekend, not one of them give a shit about this story. All of them are voracious users of digital comms., naturally.
Not only did they not give a shit, but the blank look i was given said that I was mad to suggest it. So yes, I'd say he's chucked his life away for nothing.
This poll comes out now. That strikes me as just a little too convenient. Especially with those results which I don't believe for one friggin minute.
Its a whole nother story when they just don't care, or they are actually ok with this behavior. Its like standing by and doing nothing while watching a family member get gang raped in central park and not being disturbed by it in the least.
This one is too much for me goddamn it.
You are, indeed, going to have to leave.
But it is not sad.
Living in a normal country again restores your soul.
Heh, heh. Where is that country, then? This kind of shit is just as bad, if not worse, everywhere else...
why would i believe this is a valid survey...?
Because the results would show that 'murkins are mostly sheep, which we already know anyway.
Americans have been turned into an entirely dependent society - think about the technology, the food supply, basic understanding of how things work. Modern day society is utterly and completely anti-self sufficient.
As a society we count on others to make the food supply, actually even making meals is a lost art. How to make the cars run, now to change oil. On and on. Certainly how to live within our means without government rebates on SS, med / med, SNAP, welfare, housing assistance, tax deductions for taking out greater debt on our homes.
Utterly reliant and the idea of having to stand on our own, face the world without UE or disability...actually have to save money for downtowns, actually have to take responsibility for ourselves.
There really isn't much, at this point, to be overly proud of. So much good that has led to so much bad. What a conundrum. I said it before but I didn't really believe that we would gladly give away our rights to be safe from "those who hate our freedoms"...but I'm watching it happen in real time.
I see, its never the fault of the guys who are responsible for our current state, it's always the fault of the guy with SNAP card buying table dances or soda instead of using it to buy bean sprouts and tofu or working for a corporation as a private national security contractor on taxpayers dole.
Stupid, selfish and greedy white middle class created this.
"Modern day society is utterly and completely anti-self sufficient."
That's a matter of risk vs risk, the risk of having less skills per person vs the risk of having less total output able per person working together in a market. Balancing that risk is an over-arching theme of all societies and economies and levels of technology.
Every time we add a cost of burden by adding a layer of collapse-support we make a choice of risk vs risk.
"As a society we count on others to make the food supply, actually even making meals is a lost art. How to make the cars run, now to change oil. On and on."
NOT the same problem or topic. THAT is how people are enslaved, welfare state. The idea here is that if you can make the cage comfy enough you can keep the slaves happy IN the cage instead of rising up and demanding rights, freedom and blood.
THAT 2nd problem can be removed but the 1st one NEVER can be.
I don't understand why this is a big deal. This has been happening with Echeleon for decades, and every telco on the continent has been plummed into that pipeline. They've been reading your email, listening to your calls, and a whole lot more since the peak of the cold war. How can it be ok then, and not now....or vice versa?
Or is it that folks are just now starting to understand how few rights they REALLY have, and for how long that has been an indisputable truism?
My friend, the Cold War ended in 1991. The email age began in earnest a couple of years later. How does your comment make any sense? They have always been able to bug and tap lines selectively but the applicaton of technologies allowing data mining and eavesdropping on a massive scale is a recent development.
I guess all of my calls will have to have the same message:
"I just called to say 'I love you',
I just called to say how much I care.."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJb1ssF7040
Throw in some references to Coca-Cola, GM, Apple Pie, Boeing, and McDonalds - and they'll be certain you are a real "Patriot".
You forgot to add 'support the troops,' comrade.
Do you not support Victory in Syria?
"You zee? Your neighborz don't mind zat vee are getting rid of zee Jews, so vhy should you?
Ah jus tink dat if de nsa is lookin at de terarists in dat facebook den dats gud, ain'it? i was just small in de 911 time but i remember de fear al'rite, it was on every tv in de air-rea, an presdent bush in de scool oca in floreda
Is the whole country full of perverts and exhibitionist freaks?!
Oh, .... that's right, sorry ... I forgot.
Nevertheless, a result to such a question depends how the question is asked. Such a survey is nonsense.
Most people in this country do not have the backbone of a cheezy-poof.
Yeah a 1000 person poll of who the fuck knows backgrounds
They're called 'jurors.'
Now do you want to accept a plea bargain?
Since the PTB are diddling everything else that is meaningful, why wouldn't they also diddle the polls?