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The NSA Spy Scandal Debate: Obama 2013 Vs Biden 2006
Several days ago, in the damage control aftermath of Snowden's NSA espionage conspiracy fact confirmation, Barack Obama took to the TV pulpit where he appealed to the nation, as he always does in times of strife, explaining that one can't have 100% security and 100% privacy. He said some other things, all of which as usual wrapped in rhetorical brilliance, if holding little of pragmatic and realistic value. So who better the debate the president's attempts at damage control than the vice president himself. Here, for your viewing pleasure, is Joe Biden, circa 2013 debating Barack Obama, circa 2013.
As for the false dichotomy between security and personal privacy and liberty, old Ben said it best.
h/t @ggreenwald
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Wow....it's almost as if Franklin's quote was a direct repsonse to Obongo's.
Orwellian double speak.
The Tyranny playbook has been written in stone for a few millennium already.
Think about our last three greatest enemies(declared by our government). Bin Ladn, Saddam and Gaddafi. They were our most wanted, and yet none of our high tech snooping were able to catch them. Bin Laden was found by a Pakistanian doctor who tipped us off. Saddam was in a hole that a goat herder stumbled across. Gaddafi was found by a teenage Libyan soldier looking in a drainage ditch. Terrorists already figure we can track them. That is why they avoid the tools we can use against them.
The NSA isn't stopping terrorism, they are databasing profiles of American citizens. An unreasonable search. I have posted thousands of anti-government messages online. I hope I scared the shit out of them. There is resistance. I would rather have my privacy, but in a way I am happy they are finding out that millions of us like inherent rights. They can't possibly come up with an army big enough to quell dissent. They are scared to fucking death that we are all not sheep.
Don't get yourself droned, bro...
Dotcom raid in NZ, kiwi cops work for foreign corporations!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mmObwguVmEI
One of the saddest days for democracy and freedom was when the Swedish government bent over for U.S. media companies. Followed by the day the Swedish government obeyed Hilary Clinton's command to take down Assange.
I want to throw the Australian government in there (Assange's country), but I can't determine how long they've been on their knees servicing U.S. corporate interests.
Now the Kiwis?
Not surprising, but damn sad all the same.
Isn't there any western country that has the balls to tell my country to f*ck off?
How in the Hell can they know what is or is not a potential lead, aka terrorist, if they do not scrutinize every phone call, every e-mail, every message board posting??
How the hell can a terrorist do his terrorism if he babbles about it before he does it? If I'm gonna do it, I will plan it in secret. I won't be using email, phone, snail mail, etc. Sure, NSA coulddetect some attention seeker claiming he is going to do such and such. The real threats, who are inteligent to follow through, will also be smart enough to hide their ass....
It's so much easier for them to entrap idiots to pump up thier "disasters averted" stats using online forums though. . .
Babble. Babble. Babble.
I won't say that I'm not afraid of what they might do, if they choose to designate me a "person of interest", but I'm not going to stop.
In essence, I advocate that each person answer one question for themselves, "[D]o you think we live under a tyrannical government", then act individually within the ballot box to attack the government's legitimacy.
The point is to challenge the government politically in such a way that makes crystal clear our intentions by providing the means (ideas and arguments) for citizens to act collectively and substantively in an election without voting for candidates.
Perhaps the simplest description is that we ought inject a some political chaos into their well oiled twin-party machine by voting to explicitly revoke our consent to be governed under the Constitution.
Conspiracy of one or the hardcore is the only way. And even among the muzzies there arent a lot of the hard core
My point, which was obviously missed, is they claim they are not listening to phone calls, or reading e-mails yet go on to say this NSA snooping is a primary method of detecting and thwarting potential terrorism. Knowing the content with context is the only way to do this, which means everything is being scrutinized by someone somewhere........
I got your point', and appreciate your input!
Thanks, lol. In re-reading the post is sounded apologetic to the machinations of the nefarious scumsucking NSA bastards that devour taxpayer dollars under the guise of keeping us safe. I hope to have clarified my position with these subsequent posts.....
Rest assured A Lunatic. It's not a party without two participants. ( unless you're a delusional lunatic)
It's fairly safe to assume you're not.
Got your point, and appreciate it as well.
Gotta say tho, clipped for saying I'm willing to stand up for my rights? For fightin' the man? Talk about a confused crowd. Are we a mobocracy?
If the NSA wants to know who the next bomber is going to be they should just dial up Langley and ask for the training roster.
I find it hard to understand how they need to know the GPS coordinates of 80 year old grandmothers when they make calls in the name of national security, but yet when the Russian government contacts our secret service about an invidual who may have links to potential terrorism they deem him not a threat just before he sets off bombs at the Boston Marathon. I'm not a security expert, but I would think a tip from the Russian government would be more important than the GPS coordinates of 80 year old grandmothers.
This porch monkey would be looking for a leaver and not a beaver, and I think it's why him and cameron get along so good.
"Dumb & Dumber" The prequel...
» What Is The Government’s Agenda? — Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/
What is the Government’s Agenda?
Paul Craig Roberts
" It has been public information for a decade that the US government secretly, illegally, and unconstitutionally spies on its citizens. Congress and the federal courts have done nothing about this extreme violation of the US Constitution and statutory law, and the insouciant US public seems unperturbed.
In 2004 a whistleblower informed the New York Times that the National Security Agency (NSA) was violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) by ignoring the FISA court and spying on Americans without obtaining the necessary warrants. The corrupt New York Times put the interests of the US government ahead of those of the American public and sat on the story for one year until George W. Bush was safely reelected.
By the time the New York Times published the story of the illegal spying one year later, the law-breaking government had had time to mitigate the offense with ex post facto law or executive orders and explain away its law-breaking as being in the country’s interest.
Last year William Binney, who was in charge of NSA’s global digital data gathering program revealed that NSA had everyone in the US under total surveillance. Every email, Internet site visited and phone call is captured and stored. In 2012 Binney received the Callaway Award for Civic Courage, an annual award given to those who champion constitutional rights at risk to their professional and personal lives.
There have been a number of whistleblowers. For example, in 2006 Mark Klein revealed that AT&T had a secret room in its San Francisco office that NSA used to collect Internet and phone-call data from US citizens who were under no suspicion.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/interviews/klein.html
The presstitute media handled these stories in ways that protected the government’s lawlessness from scrutiny and public outrage. The usual spin was that the public needs to be safe from terrorists, and safety is what the government is providing.
The latest whistle blower, Edward Snowden, has sought refuge in Hong Kong, which has a better record of protecting free speech than the US government. Snowden did not trust any US news source and took the story to the British newspaper, the Guardian.
There is no longer any doubt whatsoever that the US government is lawless, that it regards the US Constitution as a scrap of paper, that it does not believe Americans have any rights other than those that the government tolerates at any point in time, and that the government has no fear of being held accountable by the weak and castrated US Congress, the sycophantic federal courts, a controlled media, and an insouciant public.
Binney and Snowden have described in precisely accurate detail the extreme danger from the government’s surveillance of the population. No one is exempt, not the Director of the CIA, US Army Generals, Senators and Representatives, not even the president himself.
Anyone with access to a computer and the Internet can find interviews with Binney and Snowden and become acquainted with why you do have very much indeed to fear whether or not you are doing anything wrong.
James Clapper, the lying Director of National Intelligence, who would have been perfectly at home in the Hitler or Stalin regimes, condemned Snowden as “reprehensible” for insisting that in a democracy the public should know what the government is doing. Clapper insisted that secretly spying on every ordinary American was essential in order to “protect our nation.” http://news.antiwar.com/2013/06/07/us-spy-chief-slams-reprehensible-leak...
Clapper is “offended” that Americans now know that the NSA is spying on the ordinary life of every American. Clapper wants Snowden to be severely punished for his “reckless disclosure” that the US government is totally violating the privacy that the US Constitution guarantees to every US citizen.
President Obama, allegedly educated in constitutional law, justified Clapper’s program of spying on every communication of every American citizen as a necessary violation of Americans’ civil liberties that “protects your civil liberties.” Contrast the lack of veracity of the President of the United States with the truthfulness of Snowden, who correctly stated that the NSA spying is an “existential threat to democracy.”
The presstitutes are busy at work defending Clapper and Obama. On June 9, CNN rolled out former CIA case officer Bob Baer to implant into the public’s mind that Snowden, far from trying to preserve US civil liberties, might be a Chinese spy and that Snowden’s revelations might be indicative of a Chinese espionage case.
Demonization is the US government’s technique for discrediting Bradley Manning for complying with the US Military Code and reporting war crimes and for persecuting Julian Assage of Wikileaks for reporting leaked information about the US government’s crimes. Demonization and false charges will be the government’s weapon against Snowden.
If Washington and its presstitutes can convince Americans that courageous people, who are trying to inform Americans that their historic rights are disappearing into a police state, are espionage agents of foreign powers, America can continue to be subverted by its own government.
This brings us to the crux of the matter. What is the purpose of the spying program?
Even if an American believes the official stories of 9/11 and the Boston Marathon Bombing, these are the only two terrorist acts in the US that resulted in the loss of human life in 12 years. Far more people are killed in traffic accidents and from bad diets. Why should the Constitution and civil liberty be deep-sixed because of two alleged terrorist acts in 12 years?
What is astounding is the absence of terrorist attacks. Washington is in the second decade of invading and destroying Muslim governments and countries. Civilian casualties in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya are extremely high, and in those countries that Washington has not yet invaded, such as Pakistan, Yemen, and Syria, civilians are being murdered by Washington’s drones and proxies on the ground.
It is extraordinary that Washington’s brutal 12 year assault on Muslim lives in six countries has not resulted in at least one dozen real, not fake FBI orchestrated, terrorist attacks in the US every day.
How can something as rare as terrorism justify the destruction of the US Constitution and US civil liberty? How safe is any American when their government regards every citizen as a potential suspect who has no rights?
Why is there no discussion of this in American public life? Watch the presstitutes turn Snowden’s revelations into an account of his disaffection and motives and away from the existential threat to democracy and civil liberty.
What is the government’s real agenda? Clearly, “the war on terror” is a front for an undeclared agenda. In “freedom and democracy” America, citizens have no idea what their government’s motives are in fomenting endless wars and a gestapo police state. The only information Americans have comes from whistleblowers, who Obama ruthlessly prosecutes. The presstitutes quickly discredit the information and demonize the whistleblowers.
Germans in the Third Reich and Soviet citizens in the Stalin era had a better idea of their government’s agendas than do “freedom and democracy” Americans today. The American people are the most uninformed people in modern history.
In America there is no democracy that holds government accountable. There is only a brainwashed people who are chaff in the wind." pcr
You want to know the government's agenda? Start here, your favorite MSM plaguerist swine did, and Barry too:
1500 hours of broadcasts of a murdered journalist who chronicled the agenda of TPTB
good link, thanks.
"What is the government’s real agenda?"
That's been fairly obvious for a number of years: a fascist police state to replace accountable democracy. Where the Rule of Law is replaced by the Rule of Man. A Constitution is not consistemt with such a model of governance, so it will have to go.
The steps towards it have been incremental for many years but mainly hidden from view. Since 9/11, and then the 2007-8 financial crises, the steps have been larger, faster, more blatant and are more difficult to hide from public view. Hence all the whistleblowing going on.
A 21st century Ruling Elite is taking control of power. This new fascist state will - by definition - involve a polarization of wealth towards the top 1%-10% (bankers and other corporations with power and influence), progressive grinding down of the middle class with ever more controls and regulations on daily life, imposed with zero tolerance. Individuals will either be on the inside or not.
Further ahead, I would expect to see some sort of eugenics programme introduced, 'cos the world is overpopulated doncha know and there aren't enough resources to keep the new ruling elites in luxury which they are now accustomed to. In any case, if you aren't producing wealth which can be stolen by the elites, you have no purpose.
So "AT&T had a secret room in its San Francisco office that NSA used to collect Internet and phone-call data from US citizens who were under no suspicion." According to a former MCI/Worldcom employee, the same situation existed while that person was with MCI/Worldcom. I was told that the room was referred to by the employees as being used by No Such Agency.
Guess I'd better tell said former employee to watch out. Better yet, everyone forget that I ever mentioned this. It's just a joke. Not serious. Really!
The internet switch from ATT was activate around 12/02/02
Back in 01/16/04 You might have read this and seen the door of the room of that the ATT worker/whistleblower was talking about.
AT&T's Implementation of NSA Spying on American Citizens
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/05/70944
View Slideshow
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2006/05/70944?slide=...
And a PBS Frontline interview with him.
Interview with Mark Klein
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/interviews/klein.html
Whistle-Blower's Evidence, Uncut 05.22.06AT&T whistle-blower Mark Klein says this secret room in an AT&T switching center is home to data-mining equipment that can spy on internet communications.
View Slideshow Former AT&T technician Mark Klein is the key witness in the Electronic Frontier Foundation's class-action lawsuit against the telecommunications company, which alleges that AT&T cooperated in an illegal National Security Agency domestic surveillance program. In a public statement Klein issued last month, he described the NSA's visit to an AT&T office. In an older, less-public statement recently acquired by Wired News, Klein goes into additional details of his discovery of an alleged surveillance operation in an AT&T building in San Francisco. Klein supports his claim by attaching excerpts of three internal company documents: a Dec. 10, 2002, manual titled "Study Group 3, LGX/Splitter Wiring, San Francisco," a Jan. 13, 2003, document titled "SIMS, Splitter Cut-In and Test Procedure" and a second "Cut-In and Test Procedure" dated Jan. 24, 2003.Here we present Klein's statement in its entirety, with inline links to all of the document ex
The NSA: Future Crime Unit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nARsYRMQKE
: "If we take your guns away, you can't have 100% security and 100% privacy."
The bottom line is this: Back in 2002, when the Palestinians were being bulldozed by the Israelis and it was on the cover of every major newspaper in the world, Americans were shocked, and fed up Democrats started chanting the slogan “America First!” Anti-Semitic remarks started flooding the internet, and Senator Feinstein drafted an “Anti-Semitic Bill” similar to Germany’s, which would have prosecuted and sent to prison anybody in America who said anything against Jews. President Bush told her regarding the bill “Don’t pass it now. Wait. We will do it later”, to which she reluctantly agreed.
Fast forward to today. Feinstein doesn’t need to pass the bill; yet. Obama just signed an order where Homeland Security can arrest anybody considered “suspicious” for “prolonged detention” without the accused having any rights to an attorney or a trial. The NSA and Homeland Security is completely controlled by the Jews, and they are gathering via the NSA surveillance programs the names and information on everybody in America who has said anything against Israel or the Jews. It has very little to do with “Muslim extremists”.
At the top of the list is Ron Paul supporters and “patriots”; especially ex-veterans who have become Libertarian conservatives. These people are a threat to the government, which is taking away what little we have left of our rights, and these “patriots” have been very critical of the Jewish controlled Federal Reserve/Wall Street/Bankers and the Israel/Jewish lobbies who control Washington D.C. They are considered rabid “anti-Semitics”. Next, Feinstein will then pass her bill, and millions of Americans will be going camping: FEMA style.
Words are extremely cheap. Words don't mean shit. Actions are everything.
+ Infinity. You are the type of person that I have deep respect for.
now ZH is getting it on! this post is awesome!
pitting our founding fathers against the current politiy.
That one quote of old Ben is the kind of thing that ZH needs to keep posting.
Less talk more action people.
There are so many brilliant, brave, willing and able people in this ZH community.
Now will the new Samual Adams please stand up!
Yes. We need to become comfortable with being uncomfortable, and get out of our own way.
Seek Humility, discipline, wisdom and knowledge
knowledge and understanding is worth more than any gold and silver.
Freedom!
http://youtu.be/gr_OpFxCx-A
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gr_OpFxCx-A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Tyler Please run this new one from the Snowden / Guardian.
Pentagon bracing for public dissent over climate and energy shockshttp://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/jun/14/climate-change-energy-shocks-nsa-prism
Why the millions of rounds of ammo?
And Peak Oil kids
The study also warned of a possible shortfall in global oil output by 2015:
OT Everything that matters....
FR 06/03/2013
Wars, Wars, Wars
June 3, 2013
Sometimes when I board an airplane the head stew asks passengers to applaud the sacrifices our brave soldiers have made in defending the United States. I don’t applaud. For one thing, no soldier has defended the United States since 1945. For another, any dentist, bus driver, or musician has done more to benefit the country, and less to bankrupt it and give it a bad name, than all the armed services combined. Why don’t we applaud dentists?
It is curious that soldiers are held in honor, revered, and regarded as national heroes. Psychopathic serial killers who murders fifteen co-eds are viewed with revulsion. Why the difference? The young women killed by Ted Bundy were utterly innocent. So were the Iraqis murdered by the Air Force in Baghdad. I don’t see why pointlessly killing the unoffending in one country is admirable, but in another, isn’t.
Of course, soldiers are better at it, and thus much more destructive. They kill hugely, wreaking havoc, destroying countries and lives and cities, while the Bundys get only a few. The distinction is one of efficiency and scale. Morally they are indistinguishable.
Why the loving respect for soldiers? Militaries cultivate every instinct, every crime that decent people abhor. Why is this thought noble? In basic training in the Marines, I learned how to stab a bayonet into a sentry´s kidney so that the agony and sudden loss of blood pressure would quickly silence him. And how to garrote him with my forearm, while at once pulling him backward and throwing my weight onto his head, snapping his neck. Shoot an enemy in the stomach, not the head, we learned, as this will strain his medical services.
Doing these things in defense against an invading army is justified, but hardly something to be proud of. Invaders almost without exception are reprehensible.
Serial killers often torture their victims. So do soldiers. Torture has been part of war since war was invented—and it probably antedates other forms of prostitution. Today only the United States makes torture an avowed part of national policy, but all militaries do it. The internet makes secrecy harder these days, so we hear of Abu Ghraib, of waterboardees in Guantanamo choking, drowning, puking, screaming, begging for mercy. We get hints of crushed joints and lifelong cripples produced in the CIA’s secret torture camps.. Yet there’s nothing peculiarly American about it. Armies do what armies do. Sadism and butchery of prisoners and civilians run through military history.
Soldiers put a great deal of thought into into hurting people as badly as possible. We should be proud of this, I gather. When I covered the armed services, I routinely saw edifying examples. Research was done on blood-colored plastic shrapnel that wouldn’t show up on x-rays so that enemy doctors couldn’t easily keep soldiers alive. There was the Army’s manual on how to keep troops fighting between receiving a lethal dose of radiation and actually being unable to stand up any longer. One technique was not to tell them that they were already dead.
These things are written about by the military in carefully neutral language. The following paragraph is from a report on an anti-armor warhead tested inside a targtet tank at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland, but could have come from the labs of any civilized nation:
"The pressure transducer was the Kistler type 6121 piezo-electric gauge. This gauge, having a frequency response of 6 kilohertz, was used to measure air-shock pressures generated in the compartment. The incapacitating effects of temperature were assessed using the burn criteria presented in figure 7."
“Burn criteria” measures the hope of charring enough flesh that the crew will die. “Air shock” means destruction of lung tissue. These can be expressed less coldly. From The Sharp End, an excellent book about soldiers in World War II:
"A tank that is mortally hit belches forth long searing tongues of orange flame from every hatch. As ammunition explodes in the interior, the hull is racked by violent convulsions and sparks erupt from the spout of the barrel like the fireballs of a Roman candle. Silver rivulets of molten aluminum pour from the engine like tears...When the inferno subsides, gallons of lubricating oil in the power train and hundreds of pounds of rubber in the tracks and bogey wheels continue to burn, spewing dense clouds of black smoke over the funeral pyre."
The tank described clearly had good burn criteria. Crews seldom get out.
Why do people tolerate unending bloody conflict? The public’s attitude toward war is I think biologically determined, like most human behavior. A newborn instinctively sucks, at two becomes a minor hellion, at puberty discovers sex and, if a boy, wants a sword, a horse, and a long pointed stick. Human groups innately regard other groups with suspicion that easily turns to hostility and, if they can conquer them, they do.
Part of the animal instinct is concern for the well-being of our pack, but not of theirs. For example, the UN has estimated that over a half million Iraq1 children died as a consequence of the embargo. If even half that number is correct, it is monstrous. Is anyone even interested? No. A mother holding her baby as it dies of preventable diarrhea because the water cannot be chlorinated—she’s one of them Islams, so who cares?
Military aggression seems inbuilt. The worst of men, being aggressive, rise to rule countries, and then attack others. Roosevelt the First famously said, “Speak softly and carry a big stick.” The problem is that no one with a big stick can speak softly. Them as has sticks wants to use them. Thus all history is a record of the criminally hostile attacking anyone at hand:
Empires expand, usually with massive killing and destruction, with armies led by evil men, greatly respected by the dogs of their respective packs: Timurlane, Hitler, Napoleon, Bush, Lincoln, Peter the Great, Sharon, Alexander, on and on in their thousands. Implausibly, people honor the men who do these things to them.
We are no different. Today the US, having no military enemies, works to expand its empire, which it doesn’t need. It seeks to encircle Russia, encircle China, conquer Afghanistan and Iraq, looks for war with Iran, intrudes militarily in Africa. Why? No reason. It’s just what soldiers do.
The disastrous, unending, malign stupidity of constant war ought to be evident, but seems to make no impression. It never changes. The Greek city-states were always at war, and the Romans, and the Italian city-states, and the Arabs, and the Europeans, and…we are too. Any war is better than no war. Rape, burn, and kill. It’s what soldiers do.
it began at the fall of Adam. These are things of the world. Yet God believed the risk of free will is greater than then the cost.
Badness, is simply spoiled goodness, yet all things are possible through Christ.
Christ is impossible to comprehend because of the infinitie possibilities he is.
thank you for the post, it was telling, yet hope and faith prevail because all that you described is because of fear and doubt.
It ain't polite to post other people's work without crediting the author: Fred Reed, in this case.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35178.htm
He used his initials at the top (FR) and anybody who reads Fred knows Freds work.
Ya, but he should have had the link to Clearinghouse, or Lew's site or others.
Thanks
I did if you know anything about Fred
FR 06/03/2013
Wars, Wars, Wars
Should I give you his fucking sperm count you fuckhead???
http://youtu.be/4Prc1UfuokY
CBS report on Fast and furious get computer hacked by government
http://www.680news.com/2013/06/14/cbs-news-says-someone-tampered-with-re...
Freedom of the press in America? NO SIR.
Obama and Biden are both douchebags...plain and simple.
Biden would make a block of granite sound intelligent. He is really dumb. Impeach Obama. Then we could have another sequel to Dumb and Dumber.
Obama and Biden are both douchebags...plain and simple.
Biden sounded fairly intelligent. I guess if you compare him to Obama he sounds brilliant.
Conspiracy facts - I love it. For decades the shitheads would try to debunk us by hanging "conspiracy theorists" around our necks. Case closed! Move along! But what do we call people who believe in conspiracy facts? Conspiracy factists ? :-) BYW, I read somewhere that over half of all federal felony indictments were for conspiracy to do something they don't like.
So what is the constitutional process of getting rid of the traitors in Washington D. C.?
They have documented they are enemies of the United States of America so what now.
"Doesn't make any difference... who cares what the people think" -- Racer
"They don't care what we think. ...It translates to: Fuck You" -- Bastiat
"Our constitutional republic is dead, lets not live in this sociopath banker hell any longer." -- The Shootist
"They have documented they are enemies of the United States of America so what now." -- q99x2
All well said and true. I get up every morning, look in the mirror, and tell myself "My opinion does not matter." It's best not to start the day with a lie.
I guess you have to be a real democrat to believe in democracy. And my, isn't the astroturf thick this year... Endless (and useless) .org petitions and emails serve up ice cream issue politics in whatever flavor the public (thinks it) wants -- as long as they vote vanilla or chocolate. (An occasional strawberry is OK, it gives the illusion of variety, but be careful and don't over do it... Or else the plebes might get ideas about Rocky Road.)
It's just my personal opinion, but I think we ought change that. All over the net we bitch... and do nothing.
For example, do you think we live under a tyrannical government? There are only three answers to this question. Yes. No. I don't know.
If you answer Yes, your opinion does not matter. Which means tens of millions of us, citizens all, do not matter to our government (or either political party, or the Fed). And not only has that been proved, time and again, they act even now to impoverish us and destroy our free society.
And we can do nothing but watch and bitch? The only thing that separates us from the muppets and sheeple is our ringside seat. Question is, why are we not in the ring?
Ah, the Panopticon.
Well fuck 'em. I've got a secret. Three in fact.
Do ya really wanna know? [whisper]
The Constitution of the United States of America is an agreement, a contract, between each and every citizen. We, the people, are parties to the Constitution; government is merely the subject of our contract.
The government of the United States of America derives its legitimacy by the election of candidates to Constitutional office; implicit in your vote for a candidate is your consent to be governed by the candidates elected to office.
You must show up to be counted (vote); that which is given implicitly must be revoked explicitly.
Now the cat's out the bag... Be careful you might make "the list' if you connect the dots. But then, front-running is always risky for the little guy.
It's quite simple, really. Since our opinion does not matter, what could possibly happen if we all showed up at the polls and voted "No Consent"? Nothing much, I'm sure.
"The best way to predict the future? INVENT IT." -- ZH poster
The 'constitutional process of getting rid of the traitors in Washington' is simple ... and America's Shadow Government behind the scenes, has already threatened to murder the Congressman who should lead that process.
They threatened to murder US House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, reminding him of how they murdered US Judiciary Committee Congressman Sonny Bono in the 1990s ... and they jailed Conyers' wife under politically-motivated charges just to drive the point home.
Conyers was naive, he had bought into the Obama hype, and he thought that with Obama's inauguration, he could move against the bribed federal judges who had jailed all those innocent black people, with Conyers' files proving the innocence of so many people in prison under the bribed judges.
---
The US Constitution makes Congress supreme over the Supreme Court as well as the President, but almost no Americans seem to know that ... the Congress may impeach the President for 'Misdemeanors' and may remove any US Federal or Supreme Court Judge or Justice for lack of 'good behaviour'
Impeachment proceedings start in the US COngress House, with the trial by the Senate ...
So it is important for the US ruling families / Powers That Be / to murder a few Congresspeople (like Sonny Bono) or Federal Judges (like John Roll)
So that everyone understands the threats of murder are REAL
Bankster in Brussels,
Shiill on.
Do not thread on me and mine, the Constitution that your nazionist House of Windsor and EUSSR patronise.
Done. You are so ruined, by your own nazionist lies, the House of nazionist 'Windsor', nazionists.
Your sort hate the Constitution, and Declaration of Independence.
The constitution makes Citizens sovereign over congress, SCOTUS and Barry. The 4rth branch of the government is the properly seated grand jury. The 5th branch is the irregular militia.
Read the constitution. Its all there.
The FBI, IRS and standing private UN/FR military are all unconstitutional. They are not in the constitution by any stretch of the lawful intent of its designers.
Great point about John Roll, some think that he was the target of the hit, but also gifford to take the public focus off the behind the scenes message that was sent.
That's how we got "Wellstoned" the verb....
It's time to let this puppet (Biden) go. Obama makes way more sense.
Mr. President, I called a dominatrix hooker last night and negociated for about 15 min. I want to let you know, the phone call was made by mistake.
Doug Hagmann on Canada Free Press is now being hacked, eavesdropped, and surveilled. The integrity of this researcher/journalist/investigator is a target. Think about this-the truth is NOT to be told. The deceit and fraud by government must be held up. A traitor =freedom loving patriot, citizen=I will remain silent, I will not think. Yes, massa.
Let's see... The massive government tells us that we need them to spy on us to protect us from people who hate us because of what our government is (and has been) doing to them. They promise (ha) that they won't abuse their "duty".
If you can't see the writing on the wall, you're hopeless. You young folk had better be paying attention. It's gonna be your hell if you don't.
Founding Fathers understood the human condition-> SMART GUYS. Obama and today's elites, oh well, nuff said.
Obama and elites are smart guys too, albeit with a different motivation. Underestimate them at your own peril.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/nsa-deception-operation-questions-surround-...
NSA Deception Operation? Questions Surround Leaked PRISM Document’s Authenticity
Was Edward Snowden spotted before he decided to leak documents, and set up by the NSA?
By Steve Kinney
Global Research, June 12, 2013
..
.
"...Universal Surveillance: Romas/COIN, Odyssey and beyond
The same security breach at HBGary that revealed formal proposals to plant false leaks and target reporter Glenn Greenwald personally, also disclosed the existence of a real surveillance program with dramatically more dangerous civil liberty implications than PRISM: Romas/COIN, and its planned successor, Odyssey. Barrett Brown summarizes what is known about this program in an article on the Project PM website:
“A successful bid for the relevant contract was seen to require the combined capabilities of perhaps a dozen firms – capabilities whereby millions of conversations can be monitored and automatically analyzed, whereby a wide range of personal data can be obtained and stored in secret, and whereby some unknown degree of information can be released to a given population through a variety of means and without any hint that the actual source is U.S. military intelligence. All this is merely in addition to whichever additional capabilities are not evident from the limited description available, with the program as a whole presumably being operated in conjunction with other surveillance and propaganda assets controlled by the U.S. and its partners.”[13]
According to its internal e-mail from 2010 and 2011, HBGary was a prime contractor coordinating bids from Google, Apple, AT&T and others to build an expanded, upgraded version of the Romas/COIN information warfare system. Minor publicity attending the naming of these high profile vendors in the HBGary documents may have inspired the NASCAR-style sponsor logos decorating the dubious PRISM slides.
When HBGary’s e-mails were disclosed, the Odyssey bid was on hold with HBGary and its partners waiting for a revision in program requirements from the DoD. Two years have passed since HBGary was preparing to bid against Northrop Grumman for the prime contractor position on the Odyssey program. Odyssey should now be completed or nearing completion.
Is it possible that the PRISM leak was intended to mislead the American people into dramatically under-estimating the real domestic surveillance capabilities of our National Security Agency? You might well think so, but this reporter could not possibly comment.
"
I'm not done listening to this yet, but it's a great job juxtaposing ...
What a piece of work. That Chicago boy is a real winner.
In 2007 they already moved forward with the ability to read YOUR US POSTAL SERVICE MAIL, under certain "exegencies" w/out warrant.
We must move to telepathy I suppose, in order to retain any privacy ...
There is nothing private about telepathy. And if you use a Ouija Board as your readout device, a camera in a light fixture can watch that too.
Screw NSA
UnFacebook and UnGoogle youselves and go: FireFox-Tor Browser with StartPage search engine.
UPC Group, Liberty Global.
Is Joe Biden a retard?
Mentally Deficient, sounds better. That way smoking Joe can qualify for a SNAP card.
Check out what Daniel Ellsberg has to say: http://www.ellsberg.net/
"In my estimation, there has not been in American history a more important leak than Edward Snowden’s release of NSA material – and that definitely includes the Pentagon Papers 40 years ago. Snowden’s whistleblowing gives us the possibility to roll back a key part of what has amounted to an “executive coup” against the US constitution.
Since 9/11, there has been, at first secretly but increasingly openly, a revocation of the bill of rights for which this country fought over 200 years ago. In particular, the fourth and fifth amendments of the US constitution, which safeguard citizens from unwarranted intrusion by the government into their private lives, have been virtually suspended.
The government claims it has a court warrant under Fisa – but that unconstitutionally sweeping warrant is from a secret court, shielded from effective oversight, almost totally deferential to executive requests. As Russell Tice, a former National Security Agency analyst, put it: “It is a kangaroo court with a rubber stamp.”
It may seem to Ellsberg like an "executive coup" and he may think it has only been happening since 9/11.
But what's happening is far more than simply an Executive Coup on the Constitution. It includes the Corporates (banking/financial/many others including Microsoft, Google et al) and also the Intel/Security agencies of government, who are out of control. It is a fascist take-over of accountable democracy which requires the Constitution to be brushed aside. Obama is just the mouthpiece talking head for this criminal gang. They have common objectives, viz, raping of the national wealth, power and control over the population and bigger corporate profits etc. This is fascism.
I suggest this take-over of democracy by a three-pronged gang of criminal fascists has been a creeping process for much longer than since 9/11, probably since the end of WWII or even earlier.
As Ellsberg says and I have said before, that process was largely carried out behind the curtain - the drip-drip-drip or frog-boiling syndrome - and few people noticed what was happening. What changed since 9/11 and even more so since the 2007-8 financial crash is that the take-over is happening at a faster pace and the measures are far more overt and desperate. Their hand was forced and they cannot now hide their actions from public view. The consequences are what we see going on all around us. And as we see, anybody who blows the whistle is rounded up and punished to shut them up and to send an intimidating message to others.
I think we need to keep some public lists. A list of all the politicians that are calling for Snowden to be hunted down, disappeared, tried for treason, etc.
An off the cuff start: Rep King, Senator Linda Graham from SC, that Yenta from Florida, Schultz, Boner, Feinstein...just a start.....You are all on notice.
When the American collective voice states that Snowden actually was not treasonous, but simply doing his job, upholding the constitution, against enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC, y'all will be deemed enemies of the State. then prosecuted, and convicted of war crimes.(we are at war with terrorist, natch, and the battlefield is everywhere) You will then likely receive what you are suggesting, and be sentenced to death possibly by lead poisoning (at a couple thousand feet per sec).
You make me sick.
Read the GD constitution. It is not just a piece of GD paper!
Oh, and hi! NSA. I'm walking outside now so your sattelite can get a good view of my money maker. bugger off.
When we collectively use mussolini's definition of Fascism, we acknowledge it is Corp + Gov. but I think we have to shift the focus.
It's Not the Government spying on you, it's Every computerized company you do business with.
Microstuff OS routinely captures unknown amounts of information from you attached devices. Imagine a constant monitoring from the OS that does an inventory update of your machine automatically. Sends that information and who knows what else, back to the mcrostuff's website or computer systems. Then dup it and send it to the NSA.
Consider that same thing happening everytime you use a computerized device(ATM's Car, Electric Powermeter. etc Imagine the number of SCADA devices sending info back home)
Imagine all of them sending data back to home base company about what ever environment it happens to be, (Money, Power usage, Where you drove. iphones, etc)
All automatically forwarded to the NSA. They suck it in and onto some DASD, They then have indexing programs that are constantly running. Constantly making Coorelations to other data bases and creates views of anyway you want to slice it. (Think Enemy of the State type of holistic vew).
Common indexes make the links. GPS Address from the power meter possibly, Your current account balances, your name, ss#, email address, .....
One piece of info correlates/links to others. (Think 6 degrees to Kevin Bacon as a mental image)
AND the NSA pragmatically doesn't have to "Collect" anything. It is automatically sent to them. (There's a lot of perks going back to the Corps so they are making out in the relationship).
I think that is a better way of looking at how it works. There isn't two sides here to the Big F. They have merged into one.
"They have merged into one."
That's exactly how Mussolini described his fascist party the merger of state and industry.
It hardly matters which one of them actually does a particular piece of data collection, that will be whichever side is best suited. In the case of knowing what tech gizmos you own, it's easier for the corporates to do the spying and pass it over to government. Because they can include call-home chips/features in their products as we all know Microsoft has done for years with its Windows op/sys. In other cases, government agencies themselves will be best suited. Presumably, all the personal data collected either ends up in the same place or is readily available to the spymasters.
Yes, and they all share the combined data
The fact that none of the fuckers in the house or senate will bring impeachement and treason charges against the leadership is proof America needs an independant third party...
Randomly fire half of all PSOs (Public Servant Oligarchs) .... they'd be at each other's throats .... they know how much they have to lose .... wurfless hole lickers !
I have a feeling it's going to be an interesting & eventful weekend.
I expect { Abe & Co.} to hit the "RED LINE", before the (F/X) markets open Sunday.
I want Mrs Watanabe to use her force of finance and fiat.
Bury the bastids who used Japan most horribly.
The Republic, the USA was made for honest trade, not lying politics, and nazionists, their opium trade.
I want Japan to bury the bastids that used it. Bury it for the sake of my children, and theirs.
No surrender. Not this time.
newengland "Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned".
Biden, the Joker.
O'bomba, the fool.
The people of the USA and the world are most hated by nazionists, their EUSSR, euro nightmare, and House of Saud killing the ME for their despotism.
"We're going to have to make some choices as a society"
When did we as a society have the opportunity to make this choice?
Lord Haw Haw sends a silly bint. Wendi Dung Murdoch, perchance.
The problem with your sort is that you want the resources made by those you patronise. Eeejit.
We have been working on this one for some time...
OKaayyy....we knew this was going on...now it makes sense why UPC Broadband is scrubbed from the Web!!Justice Dept: If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't care what we are doing.
Same Justice Dept: We are suing Arizona for asking people engaging in suspicious activities for identification.
Citizens have no rights, non-citizens are fully protected by the Constitution. Welcome to the USSA.
Couldn't you have at least put Franklin on top of the crack head?
0% privacy and 0% security is what he delivers, plus 100% lies.
From our Declaration of Independence, seems relative:
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
Anyone ever watch the series "Lie To Me" with Tim Roth? That show gave a road map to determine "untruths" observing facial, hand, body gestures and speech patterns. The Lightman Group would have pegged the "intellectual dishonesty", to put it gently, within 20 seconds. The politicians must really believe the notion of the unintelligent masses falling for anything. Those days are long gone to the point that just like anyone that lies will tell you that even when telling the truth no one believes a word you say as you have no credibility left. The pooch has been screwed as it pertains to the US government. And I thought Mr. Obama was going to raise the admiration for the government after W. had, according to the left, destroyed it. How's that working out thus far?
As G.W.B, the eloquent wordsmith that he was, once said, "There's an old Tennessee saying that goes: Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, erh, uh, uhm, erh, hmmm, you can't get fooled again. Ha heh heh ha ha". You have to remember his little chuckle he has to get that last bit.
This "story" cannot be allowed to fade away. The US Ferrell Government's actions of the last decade (I know we can talk about many more years of delinquency here) cannot be shrugged off like just another topic too overwhelming to contemplate.
Thank you ZH.
I have comented here about the UPC Group on many an occasion. That would include the broadband business and other facets of financials. I will give a bit more...
RE: PMSS of TUV SUD group consulting for Cape Wind
I was alarmed by the paucity of information in the news regarding TUV SUD to provide expertise in environmental, health and safety, quality assurance, etc., for Cape Wind as consultant, I've done a bit of research on them.This is explosive---Carbon credit fraud suspended by the UN, TUV SUD! Cape Wind's consultant on all matters impacts!?!
Answering—Who is TUV SUD? (See more attached on them)
Next from this link UK Telegraph>
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/rowenamason/100004692/carbon-offset...
clip-
In the past week, the United Nations has been forced to suspend the world's second biggest carbon offsetting auditor TÜV SÜD under its "clean development mechanism" (CDM) programme over concerns about its practices that were revealed in a spot check. This follows the temporary suspension last year of the biggest and third biggest auditors – between them, the top three are in charge of verifying 70pc of the world's $30bn offset market.
TUV SUD said that the increase in number of temporary suspensions indicates that "the provisions for (firms) are not clear enough," to allow them to “carry out their activities in compliance with the standard.” The UN's move appears to be serious,with it claiming that TÜV SÜD had approved projects despite knowing there were problems with their authenticity. Some previous suspensions were connected to worries about the qualifications of monitoring staff.
TÜV SÜD, recently voted the best verifier of climate change projects by carbon financiers, has checked more than 1,200 projects over the last eight years.
Dozens of big UK and other European utilities, banks, investment funds and energy companies use these firms to approve their purchase of offsets. China – which has had 4bn euros of offsetting business from Britain – lists big names like Barclays, RWE, Scottish and Southern, Shell, BP, Citigroup and many others among those registered to buy offsets on its official CDM website. It's a widely accepted way for Western companies to stay within their carbon allowances allocated by the European Union.
Undoubtedly not all projects are improperly verified, but there has been a series of scandals about wind farms supposedly delivering carbon savings that lie idle and unconnected to the grid, a massive dam that received offset money despite being under construction two years before applying for the subsidy – and now the blow of further
auditing suspensions.
Incidentally, TÜV SÜD was the auditor that approved offsets in the controversial Xiaoxi dam (that displaced 7,500 Chinese people from their homes), maintaining it had net environmental and social benefits despite public outcry. RWE, the owner of npower, was due to buy the offsets and decided to "make its own inquiries" about the project last year.
The UN is at least facing up to cracks in the system by enforcing suspensions, but its member countries failed to make any progress on reform of the entire CDM offsetting programme at the Copenhagen climate change conference in December. If it is to persuade sceptical countries like America that carbon trading is a genuine way to reduce emissions, it’s going to have to make a lot more effort to prove the environmental promises attached to offsets are worth the paper they’re printed on.
Report on Carbon credit fraud-
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/1738940/report-carbon-credit-fraud-how-big-firms-faked-green-to-mint-gold
Announcement of PSS TUV SUD consulting group to be used by Cape Wind was in: North American Wind PowerCape Wind Hires Firm To Assist With Project Management
in News Departments > Projects & Contracts
by NA Windpower Thursday June 13 2013
Clip-
U.S.-based offshore wind developer Cape Wind has signed a consulting services agreement with the North America division of PMSS - a European offshore wind consulting firm and a part of the TUV SUD group.
Under the agreement, PMSS will assist Cape Wind's project management team. The PMSS staff will be a collaboration of both U.S. engineers and consultants and U.K. offshore wind experts, and will provide expertise in environmental, health and safety, quality assurance, risk management and other strategic advice.
http://www.nawindpower.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.11633
cut--please see the attached information for "TUV SUD".
"The Adminstration seeks power entirely for its own sake. They are not interested in the good of others; they are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. They are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled them, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know what no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end."
“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” GO 1984
you know it is serious when there is a new rap song for NSA..... http://theslipperyslopeinvestor.blogspot.com/2013/06/nsa-jam.html
The president looks like a puppet in that video.
Eben Moglen explained what the NSA was doing a year ago.
http://youtu.be/HJCczbSF-B8?t=7m12s
The NSA has been listening to phone conversations, using specialized asic chips to translate them to text to be scanned for active keywords for decades.. This is nothing new. The fact that Edward Snowden brought this to public attention will be forgotten in a few days time, and people will be like Edward.. who?
The people are not going to do *shit* about the NSA and it's wiretapping, that program will not go away no matter what. The only thing that would end the NSA program is if the Russians nuked America into oblivion and the survivors left went back to an 1800's existence. With technology will come monitoring. I'm very surprised that Edward Snowden didn't realize this, if in fact this whole thing wasn't a conditioning operation, which I suspect probably was considering that the media covered it at all.
Profiles in Courage...and Cowardice! http://shutupnsing.wordpress.com/2013/06/15/courage/
52% of Amerika has thrown in the towel.
Like it or not, the T party scares the shit out of the thug crew.
A flat tax and term limits would be a good start, as would polygraphs for congressional witnesses, same for congress and drug tests before votes as well as certifying they ahve read the bill.
. All the dems are on mind altering drugs of one sort or another. they all have a crazed look and talk in tongues to their moron parasite constituents... and are continual political war... setting aside the interests of the nation and the Constitution.
I couldn't agree more. The "thug crew" doesn't have skeletons in their closet, they have a graveyard in their closet, which is seeing more public daylight every day.
Which T Party? The real Tea Party movement started by Ron Paul prior to the 2008 elections or the one (s-?) created by the RNC etc all to hijack the reform energy to apportion across the annointed and vetted (co-opted) mainstream candidates in the last two Prez elections. Don't limit your critic to only one mainstream party. It's sooo two party bullshit!
I thought everyone might like to know how Amazon (and certainly the NSA by their association with Amazon) classifies us here on ZH.
I just got a side ad from Amazon for the book “Diabolist”, described as a thriller about a couple who travel far and wide to infiltrate and understand THE WORLDS MOST DANGEROUS CULTS.
That’s funny. Why would Amazon target ZH users as people with particular interest in that subject? I don’t recall ever telling Amazon that I was a member of ZH either. I seriously doubt that Tyler has the resources or time to waste informing them about that.
Oh the joys of being CLASSIFIED by people in power who you never even met. I wonder if this could ever have an impact on me getting a job, a loan, or getting accepted to a college of my choice?
I would like to read the book, but I'll guess I'll have to borrow it from a friend, since only Amazon, the NSA and God knows how it might increase my rating as a member of The World's Most Dangerous Cults if I actually buy the book from Amazon.
It’s a small world after all, it’s a small world after all, it’s a small world after all, it’s a small, small, world.
(Sing it everyone, you know, for the children).
So Obama and Joke Biden lied? Really?