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Google Challenges Surveillance Gag Order: Squares NSA Secrecy Against First Amendment
It appears that unlike the president, whose rating is plunging in the aftermath of PRISM-gate, US corporations are not eager to double down on their privacy intrusive ways, and some are becoming increasingly concerned about what all the recent exposure may do to their bottom line. Such as Google, which earlier today became only the first company to challenge the long-standing gag order issued by the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA), arguing that the company has a First Amendment right to speak about information it is forced to give to the government. From Google: "Greater transparency is needed, so today we have petitioned the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to allow us to publish aggregate numbers of national security requests, including FISA disclosures, separately." And yes, GOOG, which once upon a time pretended its motto is "don't evil" and since transformed it to "be evil, just don't get caught", still refer to "constitutional rights" - how quaint.
From WaPo:
The legal filing, which cites the First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech, is the latest move by the California-based tech giant to protect its reputation in the aftermath of news reports about sweeping National Security Agency surveillance of Internet traffic.
Google, one of nine companies named in NSA documents as providing information to the top-secret PRISM program, has demanded that U.S. officials give it more leeway to describe the company’s relationship with the government. Google and the other companies involved have sought to reassure users that their privacy is being protected from unwarranted intrusions.
It is not as if Google is even requesting much: in the petition, filed with the FISA court in downtown Washington, Google is seeking permission to publish the total numbers of requests the court makes of the company and the numbers of user accounts they affect. The company long has made regular reports with regard to other data demands from the U.S. government and from other governments worldwide. Basically, this would at least put the FISA court's data demands on equal footing with all other judicial entities. But we can't have that now, can we, or else the terrorists win.
That information would not necessarily shed much light on PRISM, whose existence was first reported by The Washington Post and Britain’s Guardian newspaper. But initiating a high-profile legal showdown may help Google’s efforts to portray itself as aggressively resisting government surveillance.
More importantly, it will now start an arms, or rather words race, between US corporations, in which the company that does not seek to emulate the "truth-telling" overtures of others, will be seen as the one most willing to handover user privacy to a secret organization without a fight. Which to internet companies means less users, less eyeballs, less clicking lifeblood. And most importantly, less top and bottom line.
All of the technology companies involved in PRISM, including Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Google and Yahoo, have struggled to respond to the revelations about NSA surveillance. Most have issued carefully word denials, saying that they do not permit wholesale data collection while acknowledging that they comply with legal government information requests.
So now the ball is in the administration's court which will have no choice but to reject the demand, or else find itself bombarded on all sides by enjoinders from all other internet companies. Which in turn will put Obama in an even more unpleasant place: against the companies.
Because if anything, at least until this point he could spin the ever-escalating scandal as one in which the US was collaborating with an very eager private sector. This will very soon no longer be the case.
And if the accelerating of PRISM-gate means further loss of revenues and profits for some of the biggest companies in the world as a result of Obama's resolute defense of his Dubya legacy inheritance which he has succeeded in putting on steroids, then we would most certainly open a long private sector, short Obama pair trade.
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<<The desired influence is self-censorship.>>
Boom.
This would be, in fact, terrorism in its real sense.
Having said that, They don't in fact need any emails or evidence of any kind to get you. If They want you and can't find material, They will manufacture it. If your circumstances are public, They'll use a setup; if you are trying to organise or inform or learn on the QT, They will simply show up for you one night. And if Big Brother can't supply enough incriminating emails written by you, They'll supply those too. "Evidence" is also a quaint feature of a now-obsolete justice system. Shit, you never know when They'll kick your door down, shoot your dog, assault and bundle you off over a case of mistaken identity.
So. DON'T shut up. DON'T self-censor, since that won't change anything for you should They come after you anyway. Sort of like using a taboo word in an airport; they can silence and disappear one guy saying "bomb". They can't do it to a thousand people who are all talking about bombs together.
I wouldn't post on a public message board any plans I had, if I had any, simply because it would be fucking stupid to tip your hand and discuss your plans right where the Enemy can hear them, especially on networks that They control.
So talk about stuff everyone knows, or should know. Bartering. Real wealth (vs. false "wealth" or "wealth effect" nonsense). Critical thinking vs. groupthink. Identify clearly the attempts at distraction.
Name the Enemy. Barry & Michelle Soetoro. George & Barbara Bush. Bill & Hillary Clinton. Lloyd Blankfein. Jamie Dimon. (To name just a few of the American ones.) You know...at every opportunity, discredit the propaganda by being clear, specific, and uncensored. If They try to silence you for that, it will set Them even more in the public eye.
If They want to get you, They'll get you anyway. The one nice thing about this situation is They have tipped Their hand so far down now that the sheep have noticed, and now understand what those of us who have constantly referred to the "Criminal Government", the "Enemy Government", and "the Fascists" are talking about. I reminded my dad a few days ago, that I warned him & my mum years ago that this would happen. He said, "Yes, you did," and hopefully that will help him to get how the rest of what I have been saying fits.
Our greatest weapon isn't the internet but education. Now it's up to us to educate ourselves and those around us, and I believe that is why the Ministry of Truth has damned the torpedoes of public opinion in order to try to silence all this free speech. They never needed us so stupid as They do now, since this is when They are most vulnerable, with Their century-old ponzi now at its collapse. So now is when we should keep talking, the most.
Do I sound paranoid? OK. I'd rather be paranoid and wrong than risk being caught in the opposite situation.
Here endeth the sermon. :-)
Sure, education is great right up until the unwashed masses have their EBT cards whacked. Think the "Job Creators" will be their target?
Then it's Katy bar the door & batten down the hatches.
+1
I like you. You make sense.
DON'T shut up. DON'T self-censor -- Renfield
And I pretty much agree with everything, execpt I wouldn't post on a public message board any plans...
There must needs be an overarching and overtly political strategy, and it must be public. It need not have leaders, per se, but it must be a clearly articulated political goal. For example, remove the bastards from power and call a convention... is a legitimate political goal.
-1
Legitimate ... but incredibly stupid! I don't think you realise just how many "reserves" they have sitting on the bench and just how quickly they would divert a constitutional convention down a very wrong road.
You also failed to mention how you are going to simultaneously "remove the bastards from power" ... Congress, Senate, Supreme Court, Administration, bureaucracy, lobbys, think tanks, media, CFR, TC, BB, etc, etc.....
SECESSION FROM THE FEDERAL MADNESS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.
Yep, it's going to be a dog fight. And a whole bunch of dogs in that fight too. Anybody doesn't show, gets fucked. And everybody there is gonna get chewed on...
But, all we *have* to do to control a convention is ratify by popular vote in each state. In the end, if you don't like the deal, we can still shoot our way out.
May I suggest my other posts in this thread?
And right now the states suck that fed tit hard... drawing blood and treasure. They won't be parted easily. But it is a good idea. Nor is it mutually exclusive...
[Edit] And yes, their bench is deep... Quite the roster. Name names. Reach all the way down. Consult Tom Dye.
too little to late google assholes.
removing myself from all their services, and ms and fb.
open source where possible
The market has already priced in the Bull Shite. The usd is going to fall. long commodity currencies BITCHEZ!
Wasn't Eric Schmidt who stated that "if your not doing anything wrong then you shouldn't mind privacy invasion". I guess the NSA and the government doesn't feel the same way because they certainly minded their secrets being exposed.
GOOG is just a branch of the NSA
Terrorists have actually already won.
Step 1 scare the population V
Step 2 make them surrender their liberties V
Meanwhile everyone thinks they are being protected, while in fact there is nothing to protect anymore.
If you mean terrorists = governments worldwide.
I meant any individual or organization that tries to destroy a free society.
Don't fall for Google's moves.
Google and the intelligence community have been joined at the hip since Google's days of taking in venture capital.
In-Q-Tel
http://youtu.be/MXcFCTUUC3U
Fuck communist google
@ sceptic: "the power to force you to become evil." More like, entice you. Everyone has the capacity, even the propensity for evil, when temptations come. I'm sure the goodies become too many to resist at such a level.
Damage control in attempt to reclaim millions of lost users from duckduckgo, and startpage.com.
A thousand cuts.
Take on the regime from all sides, at all times, from all angles.
+1
Yes, exactly. Deliberately and strategically. With overarching purpose. Decentralized, autononmous, independent. United.
Too little, too late...
My Google Drive has a big "Zero" documents in it.
Even the Art Appreciation teachers are completely offloading their "intellectual property."
Nobody with anything to steal is going to be dumb enough to have any good shit on an internet connected device after the recent NSA criminals were exposed.
Pen and paper, snail mail, story-telling and live music. Rock on.
What, you mean the precious CLOUD is DEAD? I've been telling imbeciles for a very long time, the entire fucking agenda is to deprive the citizen of private ptoperty, everything is owned by the oligarchs... rent this, lease that, license those. The CLOUD was just a monitoring device, easy way for the oligarchs to inspect our private lives. And idiots voluntarily used these mechanisms, not understanding the agenda... it's the same fucking thinking that allows people to accept TSA groping and NSA spying... if i'm not doing anything wrong, i have nothing to hide... but these douche bags don't understand, it's a psychology the oligarchs are after, so they have defeated these imbeciles already.
Good, anyone dumb enough to use the cloud deserves to have their rights taken away. I'll even squeal on those who I know used the cloud, cull the herd so to speak. OK, I would not really squeal, I'll shout it from the tops of the tallest buildings in Manhattan. Over there, that's where that idiot that uses Dropbox lives. And over there too. And there, and here, oh there.
My god there's no hope of ever educating people, no wonder Philly is building a prison and closing 25 schools... easier to let people do the dumb shit and put them away for it than to teach them how to attend to their own best interests.
On a related note, I think I will start using Linux Live CD's for my OS from now on. And see if I can set up a tether to a pay as you go data phone or something.
Fuck Google ; Google Sucks !! And fuck Eric Schmidt as well, that fascist douche bag. I hope Google rots in hell, and everyone that works in that shithole ends up suffering the consequences of what they have wrought. No privacy online... yet, they were FORCED to hand over secrets. Boo hoo. Lying scum bags. They are the government snoops, so there was no order to monitor our activities, the entire fucking purpose of Google is to monitor our activities... they were recording and tracking everything same time the NSA was doing it. I don't give a shit what google does... except I'm sure they've infested every software application now with their spyware.
Peter Gabriel (Shock The Monkey).
From the Wall Street Journal blog, a posting on keeping secrets:
The USA has turned into a newer version of Stalinist Russia, with the Supermax prison the American version of the Gulag Archipelago. Guy Scarpa Jr. was sent to Supermax to keep him from talking to reporters about the role the FBI had in suppressing the information Scarpa got on Al Qaeda plans in 1996 to hijack planes that would then be used as missiles. Information in confidential reports he provided the FBI when he was a confidential informant for the FBI at the MCI reporting on the conversations he had with Ramzi Yousef (the uncle of 9/11 mastermind KSM). The FBI never showed Peter Lance those CI reports; Lance may have realized that the Feds wanted Osama Bin Laden to succeed in his attack. After all, Osama was a long time agent for the CIA, with commendations from the Directorate for his work in Afghanistan.
More on government secrecy:
Are conspiracy theorists who say TWA flight 800 was shot down right? Flimmakers claim jet that crashed over Long Island killing 230 was hit by explosions OUTSIDE aircraftBy DAVID MCCORMACK
PUBLISHED: 22:20 EST, 18 June 2013 | UPDATED: 22:34 EST, 18 June 2013
A new documentary features interviews with six whistle-blowers who claim that the official explanation given for the ill-fated Trans World Airline Flight 800 crash in 1996 is wrong.
The flight crashed off the coast of Long Island 17 years ago, killing all 230 people on board in what is the third-deadliest aviation accident in U.S. history.
The official explanation given by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) at the time was that the crash was caused by a gas tank explosion.
The remains of the TWA Flight 800 from New York to Paris that exploded off Long Island, New York, reassembled from recovered wreckage
Many alternative theories exist, the most common is that a missile strike from a terrorist or U.S. Navy vessel caused the crash, and that it was subject to a government cover-up.
The documentary - TWA FLIGHT 800 – premieres on July 17, the anniversary of the crash, at 8PM ET on cable network EPIX.
It features interviews with key members of the original investigation team, who now claim that their investigation was systematically undermined.‘..This team of investigators who actually handled the wreckage and victims’ bodies, prove that the officially proposed fuel-air explosion did not cause the crash,’ said the film’s producers.
The documentary - TWA FLIGHT 800 – premieres on July 17 at 8PM ET on cable network EPIX
The documentary features interviews with key members of the original investigation team, who now claim that their investigation was systematically undermined
‘They also provide radar and forensic evidence proving that one or more ordinance explosions outside the aircraft caused the crash.’
However, the statement said they did not speculate about the source or sources of any ordinance explosions.
The incident occurred just 12 minutes after take-off from JFK International Airport on the flight bound for Paris, France.
More than 600 people gave eye-witness accounts after seeing the plane crash and the majority described seeing a ‘rising streak of light’ moments before the crash' which many believed was a missile hitting the plane.
The whistleblower team claim that at the time they were placed under a gag order by the NTSB, which they charged falsified the official conclusion of the cause of the crash, reports Fox News.
With conspiracy theories immediately swirling around the crash, the FBI conducted a 16-month investigation and concluded that there was no evidence to indicate that any criminal act occurred.
Many conspiracy theories exist, the most common is that a missile strike from a terrorist or U.S. Navy vessel caused the crash, and that it was subject to a government cover-up
Read more:Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344246/Are-conspiracy-theorists-say-TWA-flight-800-shot-right-Flimmakers-claim-jet-crashed-Long-Island-killing-230-hit-explosions-OUTSIDE-aircraft.html#ixzz2WcdkXqNS
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+1
Thanks for this. Always looked like blowback to me...
Never mind the British Puppet State lets Lockheed-Martin process its Census Data, so at least the US has the full background on British Residents for its files.
US Data Mining
An intrusive personal data collection and analysis project commissioned by the US government may find enthusiastic backers elsewhere. The Orwellian ‘Total Information Awareness System’ is under development as part of a Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) system. It seeks to create a very large database (VLDB) with data mining functionality to analyse telephone records, bank records, medical records, and educational, travel and other common transaction data of every citizen in the US. TIA also proposes to connect with a massive system of biometric identification. The project is championed by former US National Security Advisor John M Poindexter.
(Source: http://www.epic.org/privacy/profiling/tia/tiasystemdescription.pdf; http://news.com.com/2010-1069-979276.html?tag=fd_nc_1)
"There are two aspects of what the government calls the National Identity Scheme: the roll-out of ID cards, and the creation of the database on which the state will store - among 49 items of information - people's photographs, passport numbers, driver numbers (given on driving licenses), fingerprints, national insurance numbers, dates of birth and addresses. By way of softening the introductoin to all this, there will initially be no specific date on which every British citizen has to be signed up; instead to start things off, the government has proposed that either people applying for their first passport or renewing an existing one will have their details entered into the register and be issued with an ID card".
24th January 2008, The Guardian
Google can publicise applications to any US court it wants and cynically quote the 1st Amendment. Why did they participate in spy activities in the first place if they had 1st Amendment concerns?
Obviously they thought they could get away with it without being exposed.
But Enter: Edward Snowden.
And it will not change the fact that Google is a rogue corporation and always has been - paying only lip service to personal privacy - just like Microsoft. Both have multiple relationships with governments (and other industry players) to screw and manipulate customers. Anything they say or whatever aggregate numbers they publish (if approved by FISA) can only ever be taken with a large pinch of salt.
They've been caught with their knickers down and are now in damage-limitation mode. That's it.
rights? what rights do you speak of. i dont think the word you are using means what you say jit means. i was under the impression with the coronation of king obama these "rights" were done away with. 550 murders in chicago says its over. east st. louis, anchorage, camden, newark -home of the celebrity mayor of hollywood, bridgeton, phila, and so on. america is done only thing is wait for king obamas head to roll and a silly ass repub to take over.
I never used the word "rights". My comments were not about that.
{shrug}