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'Chiraq' Update: Illinois Overturns Ban On Concealed Weapons

Tyler Durden's picture




 

"Following a weekend of horrific violence in Chicago in which at least 70 people were shot and 12 killed, this was the wrong move for public safety in Illinois," Democratic Governor Jim Quinn noted as lawmakers overturned his veto to allow Illinois to become the last state in the US to allow residents to carry concealed handguns. As the BBC reports, the governor warned that the new law will allow people to carry guns in pubs and bars (and carry virtual arsenals on their persons), we suspect, if Chi-raq (the slang for the anarchic gang-ridden areas of Chicago) is any example, that this is already occurring en masse in a wide population of the state. Gun rights proponents, meanwhile, celebrated, "this is a historic, significant day for law-abiding gun owners, they finally get to exercise their Second Amendment rights."

Via BBC,

Illinois has become the last state in the US to allow residents to carry concealed handguns, after lawmakers overrode the governor's veto.

 

...

 

Mr Quinn vigorously opposed a concealed carry law, but the Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal.

 

...

 

On Tuesday, legislators in the House and Senate easily mustered a two-thirds majority needed to override Mr Quinn's veto, barely beating the court deadline.

 

...

 

"Following a weekend of horrific violence in Chicago in which at least 70 people were shot and 12 killed, this was the wrong move for public safety in Illinois," Mr Quinn said in a statement after the vote.

 

He said legislators had "surrendered" to the National Rifle Association, a powerful gun rights lobby funded in part by weapons manufacturers.

He warned the new law would allow people to carry guns in pubs and bars, and allow people to carry virtual arsenals on their persons.

Gun rights proponents, meanwhile, celebrated.

"This is a historic, significant day for law-abiding gun owners,'' Representative Brandon Harris, a southern Illinois Democrat said, according to the Associated Press.

Referring to the clause in the US constitution that refers to gun ownership, he said, "They finally get to exercise their Second Amendment rights."

 

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Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:19 | 3740691 Flagit
Flagit's picture

Everyone is reluctant to say it like it is, so I will:

sry, im late to the party. some fucking nigger jacked my ride while i was getting gas. they live like animals. they spend all day trying to think up the easiest way to get paid. theft, extortion, robbery, drugs, anything but work. the system gave up on them long ago and the lesson learned is the louder you yell, the faster you get your free shit. i stopped going to convenience stores 3 years ago. i dont have the 45 minutes for some dumb bitch dressed like she just came from The Ritz, to play $50 worth of lottery tickets, then pay for soda pop with a snap card, then haul ass out of the parking lot like there's a fire, in your brand new fucking navigator, cutting off anything with wheels including a flashing ambulance. you dont get a ticket, or even a second glance because of some shit that apparently went down 200 years ago, that me, and the rest of society has to pony up for.

the majority cant do math, practice hygiene, or park more than 10 ft from any given doorway. however, it is funny as HELL to walk into a HIP-HOP club at closing time and yell, "COPS".

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:12 | 3740886 Iocosus
Iocosus's picture

Trying to make a dolla outa fiteen sense

Unfortunately, you are correct. And the Zimmerman trial is being exploited by this regime to foment some sort of chaos in order to set another precedent to take away more freedom. Jefferson's prediction was eerily accurate: we'll end up homeless and broke in the continent our forefathers fought for. At this point, most folks are tiring of the white guilt trick (just like anti-semite). When the producers lose their jobs, either there is a complete government takeover, or we have a race war, IMO.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:51 | 3740808 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

I want you to know that Toronto's thugs and gangbangers are just as murderous and bloodthirsty as any in the U.S. We can say with pride that our gangs can match any of your gangs any day.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/interactive-city-of-toronto-...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:14 | 3740898 Iocosus
Iocosus's picture

Toronto vs. Chicago. Set it up. PPV.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:05 | 3740843 Lore
Lore's picture

Quality research seems scarce, but there is perception that gangs are expanding in Canadian cities, manifesting in more gun crime.  There is no statistical basis for the assertion that Canada is 'safer' strictly due to different gun laws.  The difficulty with which the Canadian government dispensed with its gun registry shows how uninformed and muddled the thinking is on this issue. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada#United_States

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/04/19/mexican_drug_cartel_violence_hits_canadian_mobsters.html

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 12:53 | 3741920 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

You're multiple postings have confirmed that you do not understand math.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:16 | 3747458 Flagit
Flagit's picture

You're multiple postings have confirmed that you do not understand math.

whut?

do you mean, "your"? i guess ill add grammatically challenged, to that list.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:44 | 3740178 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Why does Switzerland have a low murder rate (that's all murders not just gun) yet firearms are a popular sport and there are firearms in nearly every home?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:13 | 3740279 garypaul
garypaul's picture

That's a great point. The most obvious things that come to my mind are: The Swiss have a strong cultural identity (historically they are the fiercest people on Earth). But Switzerland is also stinkin' rich. That probably helps a lot LOL.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:45 | 3740707 noless
noless's picture

"strong cultural identity"

DAS RAYCISS

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:54 | 3740715 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

perhaps where you come from, but not in europe

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 09:16 | 3741087 XitSam
XitSam's picture

It's only rayciss when white Americans do it.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:52 | 3740712 Non-U
Non-U's picture

Yes by now they are stinkin' rich, but the legislation was put in place when they were stinkin' poor. Switzerland was one of the poorest nation in Europe.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:23 | 3740694 Flagit
Flagit's picture

and there are firearms in nearly every home?

i think you just answered your question.

and its actually a machine gun that you are required to fire 100 rounds thru, per year. i hear it is not enforced though. THAT is your well armed militia. almost any american CAN have a gun. every swiss DOES.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:58 | 3740226 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

canadians don't call other canadians "wingnuts", for starters.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:21 | 3740300 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Fewer gangs, fewer blacks, fewer drug problems, more rural populations, more homogenous population, less prevalence of "ghetto culture". For starters.

The high majority of violent crime in general and gun crime in particular ( in the US) is drug and gang related. Take those numbers out of the equation, and the US violent crime rate is comparable to or better than any country in Western Europe.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:41 | 3740351 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Bingo.  Somebody finally said it.  Name one city in Canada that is ethnically similiar to Detroit, Oakland, East St. Louis, Gary, IN, Camden, NJ, Philly, Trenton, Newark, NJ, etc.

The gentle idea of civil Canadians have never seen Toronto cops with protestors.  They beat the living sh*t out of protestors.  Not like the lib cops in Vancouver or Seattle, WA.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:45 | 3740357 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

very simple. Go to Detroit. Look at the population. Now go across the river. Look at the population.

You'll find your answer.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:28 | 3740442 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Because warm maple syrup pacifies?

Again, mind ur own fucking business. This is a family issue we are working out down here, eh. Lots of shit to sort out. Lots.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:57 | 3740490 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

I'm not canadian, cumstain.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 01:01 | 3740496 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

And I wasn't talking to you, fuckface.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:27 | 3740697 Flagit
Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:39 | 3740968 ipunchsquirrels
ipunchsquirrels's picture

I second that...hooray for fuckface commentary...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 01:06 | 3740500 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

And I am glad you're not a Canadian, just the same.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 01:40 | 3740542 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

I think he's a cumstain. But not a Canadian cumstain. Rather a globalist, environmentalist cumstain. You know, a progressive cumstain. A forward thinking and idealist cumstain. A cumstain to be reckoned with. A cumstain of stature and means. Yes, a cumstain that simply can't be rinsed or wished away. For further elucidation, see Bill Clinton.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 01:33 | 3740534 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

Oh,oh! I know this one. Because they're all dickless, liberal pussies? Right?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:41 | 3740779 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Canadians are usually too drunk to hit what they're aiming at.

It's a cultural thing.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 21:49 | 3743687 Promethus
Promethus's picture

Cause Canadians are mostly white.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:23 | 3740018 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

They are also same trade shootings.  And the business is "pharma".  Its just too bad that innocent folks get caught in the crossfire at times; a crossfire that wouldn't be happening if the "authorities" were doing their job effectively.

 

This is a great step forward for IL.  Agree with all who predict lower crime here as a result of joining the rest of the country w/ concealed carry.  

Being of skeptical mind I wonder with concern if some federal court might one day take away what such a court "gave" Illinois in this case?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:34 | 3740702 Flagit
Flagit's picture

yes, and no. like previously stated, a majority of violence is gang-on-gang. robbery related violence, on the other hand, could taper off. that is goin to depend on how many people considered to be potential victims enlist in the program. robberies can occur anywhere, but i have noticed an uptick in attacks where college campuses are located. arming a large majority of 18-25 year old students would tip the ballance away from those who would engage in robbery.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:30 | 3740107 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

Imagine the increase in shootings if the welfare checks stop coming.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:28 | 3740162 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

That's what will be the root cause of the real "Zombie Apocalypse"

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:47 | 3740165 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

And am preparing for accordingly.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:35 | 3740770 Flagit
Flagit's picture

The drill was for “Detecting the presence of unauthorized persons and potentially disruptive or dangerous activities.” I guess DHS is worried what might happen when SS checks don't get sent out anymore. I suggest they go do their drills in the hood to prepare for when the welfare checks stop coming. Probably figured that wasn't a good idea, even when the checks are still getting sent.

http://dirtydozensbunker.com/showthread.php?t=93343

that post is about 12th down on the thread. i think he nailed it.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:12 | 3740888 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

If Gov can spend several trillion $ in Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't think you have to worry about cutting off the free money.

It would be most uncomfortable for those in Greenwich CT or Malibu CA, to have the hoi polloi invading them.

Let them invade themselves, has been the order of the day for quite some time. They can't get

all agro on each other if they are passing out from hunger.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:51 | 3739984 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

Average Americans don't have personal security teams.

Average Americans have to live in shitholes even if it's not by choice.

Average Americans need to have the ultimate defense in a country absent the rule of law.

Average Americans are governed by a political body that are not bound by a rule of law by which they govern.

Average Americans will either be enslaved or give up their liberty

Average Americans in the coming years are coming to the end game.

Average Americans must decide their fate instead of having their fate decided by those that want to control them.

Average Americans must decide their future.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:02 | 3739985 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Mr. Samuel Colt made everyone equal over a century ago. You want gun violence to cease? Everyone arm themselves, the cowards will cut that shit out when there is a real threat of return fire from anywhere in the room.

Call it deterrence.....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:44 | 3740180 20834A
20834A's picture

The Threat of Mutually Assured Destruction. Worked in the Cold War and The Wild West, eh?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:13 | 3740283 20834A
20834A's picture

From *everywhere* in the room.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:53 | 3739990 jon dough
jon dough's picture

A little dance number I've been saving for this day...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMVGJVgsoHg

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:09 | 3740042 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

I knew Gangnam Style reminded me of something!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:24 | 3740090 dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

Really? I've been saving this one!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u00f48g0fc0

Third world America!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:55 | 3739999 Au Shucks
Au Shucks's picture

What a criminal Quinn and his Quinions are.  Quinn is now OFFICIALLY guilty of treason agains the US Constition, as if we needed another reason to arrest him.  Literally EVERY argument the man makes against guns is defeated by any sane person simply asking "Do the "bad guys" follow the laws?".  Then it is crystal clear WHO exactly Quinny poo is attacking.. the SECOND Amendment. 

 

Worse still, the two guys seeking to unseat Quinn are even WORSE!!  OMG, Illinois is a terrible, terrible place.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:33 | 3740130 garypaul
garypaul's picture

'Literally EVERY argument the man makes against guns is defeated by any sane person simply asking "Do the "bad guys" follow the laws?".'

Well, we call them 'bad guys' because they don't follow the law.

Bad guys also steal cars. So should there be a law allowing you to steal cars? 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:40 | 3740158 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Does the Huffington Post crowd realize that their village idiot is missing?  Better hurry back over there before they put up flyers around the neighborhood.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:42 | 3740170 GernB
GernB's picture

Stealing cars does harm to someone else. Carrying a gun does not.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 01:27 | 3740526 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

Your complete lack of logic and rationale for your opinions is truly painful to behold. Please stop.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:41 | 3740778 Flagit
Flagit's picture

seriously Naperville, get lost.

actually, go to the Navy Pier, then walk westward. see ya, r.i.p.

your shit wont live past the first gas station.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 12:58 | 3741941 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

I agree.

And I live here.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:57 | 3740004 msnrochny
msnrochny's picture

Hey Cuomo, you paying attention?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:20 | 3740076 Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

Hey OWEMalley, you paying attention?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 22:01 | 3743724 Promethus
Promethus's picture

Cuomo is only for gay butt sex marriage not gun butts.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:58 | 3740007 clagr
clagr's picture

Maybe if the law abiding gun carriers whack a few of the prior violators who had guns anyway, there would be a drop in overall gun violence

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:00 | 3740013 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Now the law-abiding citizens can carry-concealed to protect themselves and those around them, just as the criminals likely already are and have been illegally carry-concealing for some time.

I agree with Chupacabra in pole position above: this could very well lower crime in Chicago.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:06 | 3740036 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Depending on speed of implementation or the re-education time from the brainwashed illinois pussy factor..

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:57 | 3740223 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I anticipate Illinois law enforcement will ignore implementation of the law, provide stupid excuses as to why and when they do implement, scream that the gun crime rate did not immediately fall. Oh, and unfairly prosecute self-defenders. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:10 | 3740266 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

Just like san francisco cops.  They have lost twice in court and they still screw with CCW holders.  Pretty city ugly people.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:23 | 3740922 Flagit
Flagit's picture

there have already been a few states attorneys come forward and say they will not prosecute, barring special circumstances. if i start cappin 4-5 hoods a week....on that note, in illinois they pull your foid the moment you are charged with certain crimes. felonies, mostly. it will be interesting(fuck, that sounds gastly) to see the outcome of the first trial involving a homicide via ccw-il.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 11:52 | 3741716 Rapada
Rapada's picture

Self defense, not homicide.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 22:05 | 3743729 Promethus
Promethus's picture

But see what happened when Zimmerman tried to defend himself.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:48 | 3740797 Flagit
Flagit's picture

every time, and i mean EVERY time somebody slips up concerning ccw, lisa madigan will plaster it all over the news. that bitch wanted to post a public list of every gun owner w/address in illinois.

gimmie a C,

gimmie a U,

gimmie a N,

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:16 | 3740288 garypaul
garypaul's picture

Wouldn't an UNconcealed weapon have more of a deterent factor? I'm just using your own logic...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:36 | 3740457 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Maybe, as it depends on the scenario. Information asymmetry is a powerful asset.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:04 | 3740028 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

If intrade was still around with a bet: Chicago gun murder rates go up after concealed carry is permitted - That would be a sure winner. The notion of drunkards at bars concealing weapons just doesn't sound like the brightest of ideas...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:15 | 3740057 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

I just did not expect to find an example of brainwashed pussy factor so quickly.............................

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:56 | 3740216 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Well, I always found American irrationality towards guns kinda fascinating. Calling me a pussy when if taken through a Freudian approach, all this gun blabbery sounds a lot like phallic insecurity.... who knows?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 05:32 | 3740659 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Oh good, another sophisticated chain-smoking Yerpeen weighs in on the simple uncultured Murrikins. And a GERMAN Yerpeen at that, if the name is any guide. OK, Fritz. While us'n surely do appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to school us on our irrationalities and insecurities about guns - undoubtedly some kind of phallic substitution deal as the wise Yerpeen Froid might say - lemme run this by you and your ideological butt-buddies, *yet again*. (clears throat)

Yo! Fritz! I once saw a movie set in a genteel, sophisticated Yerpeen paradise where only the police und der army had guns. It was called "Schindler's List". Despite the safety and obvious superiority of an unarmed populace watched over und kept safe by their gun-toting shepherds, for some reason there weren't too many picnics und giggles in it, strangely enough. Care to enlighten us proles in re that most puzzling paradox, scheisskopf?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:07 | 3740722 noless
noless's picture

I hate to sully the pure brilliance of your response, but, i just have to say the whole"phallic replacement" argument has to come from a female source deriding him into submission in his search for sex or intimacy, deconstructing any last vestiges of masculinity within his crushed soul by use of his innate human weaknesses coupled (or i guess in this case not) with his indoctrinated insecurities..

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 17:53 | 3743022 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

And I'm not even German...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:20 | 3740064 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

From the text of the bill:

 

"(d) A licensee shall not carry a concealed firearm while 

under the influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, 

intoxicating compound or combination of compounds, or any 

combination thereof, under the standards set forth in 

subsection (a) of Section 11-501 of the Illinois Vehicle Code. "

 

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/HB/PDF/09800HB0183lv.pdf

 


 

 


 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:36 | 3740144 garypaul
garypaul's picture

But but, bad guys don't follow the law! 

I'm having so much fun tonight poking holes in your pee-brain logic.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:44 | 3740181 GernB
GernB's picture

Yes, so those bad guys not following laws are already carryng conceled weapons in bars. Duh.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:57 | 3740222 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Well, now you'll get not only "bad" guys drunken with guns, but "good" guys drunken with guns too. Helluva mix, dontcha think?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 02:28 | 3740589 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Go swimming with sharks, expect to get bit.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:46 | 3740185 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Your first sentence is a most correct point.   Too bad you are applying it in exactly the wrong way.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:10 | 3740727 noless
noless's picture

I really haven't seen you display any hole poking ability yet..

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:05 | 3740031 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

70 shot and only 12 killed??? Sounds like the citizens of Chicago need some more time at the target range. Maybe the city of Chicago can set up some low income ranges in the abandoned buildings.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:21 | 3740082 samsara
samsara's picture

Are you sure those aren't the stats for the cops??

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:21 | 3740083 max2205
max2205's picture

Chi town = new town times 1 million

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:28 | 3740103 Maos Dog
Maos Dog's picture

It's becuase they have no idea what they are doing, they shoot sideways and use cheap-shit ammo. There is a good reason to use JHP or load critical defence.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:09 | 3740041 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The liberal  media won't advertise lower crime rates due to conceal and carry. It's about time citizens are allowed to defend themselves.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:20 | 3740077 Maos Dog
Maos Dog's picture

Umm, you guys know that this is complete bullshit right?

Here is the cold hard reality of the situation: No one will have a CC in Chicago. 

It's going to be just like New York, CC is "on the books", but it will be *nearly* impossible to get a permitt unless you are somehow connected. 

Meanwhile the cocksucking media will continue to report the violence in Chi-Town, throwing in digs about how now it s "CC" state and it's now the "The Wild West" thanks to the "NRA" when in reality no one has a fucking CC permitt. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:34 | 3740132 Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

It may not have any practical effect in Chicago, but at least now gun owners in Peoria and Decatur don't have to suffer for Chicago's gang problems.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:53 | 3740212 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Exactly - same for the Chicago 'burbs.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:37 | 3740461 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

It's a state issued license.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 13:04 | 3741971 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

The IL State Police are in charge of issuance.  They're a bunch of fucking nazis who opposed this bill, so that may be a problem but, if so, it won't be limited to Chicago.

One of the "amendments" Quinn tried to put in with his veto was a home rule provision which would have had the de facto effect of allowing Chicago to not issue.   

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:21 | 3740079 Powder
Powder's picture

So there is some hope that this country can change further for the better.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:25 | 3740091 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

It is amazing that commies like Quinn are not laughed right out of office.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:28 | 3740098 samsara
samsara's picture

Maybe we will read headlines in Illinois...

 

Dead Intruders In Houston Send a Posthumous Message: “Find Another Line of Work.”

In Houston on Sunday afternoon, three armed men entered a home and demanded payment. They got payment. The owner of the home grabbed his gun, shot two of them dead, and scared off the third, who ran.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/07/gary-north/dead-intruders-in-houston-send-a-posthumous-message-find-another-line-of-work/

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:39 | 3740156 garypaul
garypaul's picture

What the fuck does that have to do with CONCEALED gun (I presume handguns) out in public??? It's legal to have a firearm (ie. shotgun) in your home in any fucking country.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:47 | 3740192 Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

"It's legal to have a firearm (ie. shotgun) in your home in any fucking country."

Except for the country of New York City and the country of the District of Columbia (pre-2008)....

And most countries of the world, of course; the UK for example requires a shotgun certificate and only allows double barrels, as pump shotguns are considered assault weapons there.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:58 | 3740227 garypaul
garypaul's picture

No wait, I wasn't clear. I meant most places allow legal ownership of long guns with an appropriate certificate (just not handguns)

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:04 | 3740394 Freddie
Freddie's picture

"Certificates?" "We don't need no stinking certificates!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:53 | 3740210 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

Actually, this is not true.

I have lived in several where the general population was damn near completely banned from owning them.

Some because of outright ban, some because they just wrapped up a civil war.

The biggest one in the world where the general population is forbidden to own firearms of any kind, including shotguns in the home, with the excepton of hunting (which is hghly regulated itself) is China.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:00 | 3740237 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Japan and the UK too....

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 02:31 | 3740591 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Are there a lot of bears/cougars still roaming around in Japan/UK?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:44 | 3740982 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Don't know about the UK, but Japan has bears in some of it's northern areas. Wolves have been extinct there for a long time. The only other animal that might prove dangerous there are boars.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:30 | 3740113 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Chicago Violent Crime Rate Drops 46%

Mayor Credits After School Program

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:47 | 3740190 JR
JR's picture

All IN with Chris Hayes: June 11, 2013

Chicago homicides plummet, but is it a fluke?

"The homicide rate in Chicago has gone down, 34% so far this year, but Chris Hayes looks into whether this is a fluke for a city that has come to symbolize out of control gun violence in this country."

This content comes from Closed Captioning that was broadcast along with this program (excerpt).

>>> there's big news out of chicago today . the city that has had a brutal time of it lately has become an absolute national emblem for the scourge of gun violence . the city's troubles painfully crystalized when a 15-year-old chicago girl who performed in the president's inauguration was murdered one week later about a mile away from president obama 's chicago house . she was the unintended target of gun violence , like-9 so many others. first lady michelle obama attended pendleton's funeral. president obama addressed chicago 's gun violence when he was there in february.

>> we may not be able to save every child from gun violence , but if we save a few, that! u starts changing the atmosphere in our communities. neighborhood by neighborhood, one block by one block, one family at a time.

>> today, chicago was treated to a different kind of headline. a substantial drop in homicides and shootings in the first part of this year. homicides down 34% compared to the same period in 2012 . shootings of children 16 and younger down 46% compared to last year. of course, it's obscene we even have to keep a record of shootings of children 16 and younger which is exactly why gun violence in chicago and other cities is so destructive and so terrorizing. as reported by "the times" as many as 400 police officers a day working overtime have been dispatched to the 3% of chicago 's geography that accounts for 20% of its worst crimes. but that is being done at a cost of nearly $32 million of the $38 million total in budget overtime. that's 84% of budget overtime pay already spent and it's only june. nevertheless, mayor rahmjftfqo? u ? u wants the city to continue staffing police in these hotspot, working regular hours, not overtime. "it's sustainable because it's actually bringing the results i want to see." as for the recent crime statistics emanuel says “it's good but not good enough." joining me is mary mitchell of "the chicago sun -times." mary , it's been a horrible stretch for chicago , and as someone who lived and worked in chicago and loves the city with all of my heart and soul, painful and wrenching to watch it. this news got me excited and i want to know if i should be feeling good about a corner having been turned in the city.

>> well, i don't know if we should go so far to say that a corner has been turned. it has been a, you know, in chicago the weather's been terrible. it's now just beginning to get warm consistently. it seems like every time the weather breaks you have a news of more shootings. and we talk about a 34% reduction. that sounds good because it's a statistic, but the headlines say that since friday, 28 people in chicago have been shot and 3 of them have been killed by gunfire. if you live in a neighborhood where you're hearing shots fired, that statistic doesn't mean anything to you. i think we have a long way to go. i don't think it's time to celebrate yet. i think in august we need to come back and look at this and see if we can sustain the reduction in the shootings.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/52174660#52445977

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:12 | 3740276 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

"mayor rahmjftfqo? u ? u"  Good one JR.

 

I'd bet a statistical study correlating shootings with weather in Chicago would have a very high "r squared".

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:48 | 3740364 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Uh....the weather wasn't hot.

Now it is.

Care to guess the body count lately?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:33 | 3740114 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

I've been around a long time.  I used to own guns.  I have no problem with a responsible citizen owning a gun.

I've been know to go to drinking establishments in the course of my life.  I have witnessed disputes, beatings and so on and been involved in brawls and fights.  I also saw domestic violence.

I don't want to be in a bar next to some normally placid individual who is carrying a concealed weapon, getting drunk and losing his cool and using deadly force to prove some kind of point.  There is no need for concealed weapons.  If it is that dangerous in Chicago, best move somewhere else where it is safer and where they don't allow this kind of stuff.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:34 | 3740137 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

See comment and link above.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:43 | 3740173 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

The problem is the alochol/drug ban does not reflect reality.  Someone can come into a joint with the intention of having a coffee and meet some friends, have a few drinks, forgetting about his gun, until he or she uses it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:05 | 3740251 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

I've done my share of time in rough places as well so understand what you're saying. Here is what the new law says further on the subject:

Section 65. Prohibited areas. 

(a) A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a 

firearm on or into: 


(9) Any building, real property, and parking area under 

the control of an establishment that serves alcohol on its 

premises, if more than 50% of the establishment's gross 

receipts within the prior 3 months is from the sale of 

alcohol. The owner of an establishment who knowingly fails 

to prohibit concealed firearms on its premises as provided 

in this paragraph or who knowingly makes a false statement 

or record to avoid the prohibition on concealed firearms 

under this paragraph is subject to the penalty under 

subsection (c-5) of Section 10-1 of the Liquor Control Act 

of 1934. 

 

Pretty much tells me: "don't bring your gun to the bar".

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:43 | 3740171 Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

I must have missed Gov. Quinn offering an alternative CCW bill that banned carry in bars.  He's just throwing red herrings out there to make his position look less unreasonable.

"I don't want to be in a bar next to some normally placid individual who is carrying a concealed weapon, getting drunk and losing his cool and using deadly force to prove some kind of point."

I'd avoid bars where Chicago cops hang out, then. You know, the only people in Chi-town who have always been able to carry concealed.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:47 | 3740361 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

They said the same thing when Virginia allowed CHP in bars and restaurants a few years ago. The gun grabbers have been silent as no CHP holder has murdered anyone in a bar. It's a bogus argument.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 03:59 | 3740636 Bloodstock
Bloodstock's picture

Lol, Maybe you feel safe in a cop bar?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:32 | 3740125 JR
JR's picture

Looks like this banker-controlled fascist government plans to freeze us out with cultural decline, or kill us off with a massive amnesty that will lead to lawlessness. The destruction of a culture leads to breakup of established law.

Louis L’Amour wrote in The Mountain Valley War:

“There’s a clause in the Constitution that says the right of an American to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged. The man who put that clause there had just completed a war won simply because seven out of every ten Americans had their own rifles and knew how to use them. They wanted a man to always be armed to defend his home or his country.

“Right now there’s a man in the area who is trying to take away the liberty and freedom from some men. When a man starts that, and when there is no law to help, a man has to fight.

“When a brave man dies for what he believes, he wins more than he loses. Maybe not for him but for men like him who wish to live honestly and decently.”

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:37 | 3740146 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

'Bout Fucking Time! Where's Charles Bronson when you need him? Quinn, you're a fucking-liberal-moron. You should resign immediately!!!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:39 | 3740155 Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

The amount of the NRA's funding that comes directly from "weapons manufacturers" is tiny, and Mayors Against Legal Guns and the Brady Conspiracy To Prevent Self-Defense have roughly equal funding to the NRA anyway.  The NRA's power comes from its extremely politically active 7-figure membership, not from its funding.

It's also cute that the BBC refers to them as a lobby; one wonders if they refer to the ACLU as a lobby?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:40 | 3740159 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Most of the shootings are black-on-black in black neighborhoods. I don't see a problem.

When they come out of their hoods and try to wage war on me and mine, well, Mr. AR, Mr. AK and I will rise to meet them.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:42 | 3740166 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

 

As the old saying goes:

 

Tis better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:13 | 3740418 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

In the case if Zimmerman....he is being judged by 6. Just an interesting point or you.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:46 | 3740172 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Some situations take a modicum of critical thought, like this whole gun issue for example.

I will dare to tread the waters of race because unlike most I use objecctivity and embrace the rationality behind numbers.

Let's start here:

(you'll have to click on the race/ethnicity tab)

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-crime/

And than here (homicide rate by race)

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/youthviolence/stats_at-a_glance/hr...

"Males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24 had the highest rates of firearm homicide from 1993 to 2010"

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4616

"In a 2004 United States Department of Justice report which analyzed carjacking trends over the previous decade, carjacking victims identified 56% of the offenders as black, 21% as white, and 16% as members of other races"

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/c02.pdf

Most dangerous cities  (NBC):

1. Flint Michigan - 56.6% African American

2. Detroit Michigan - 82.7% African American

3. St. Louis - 54% African American

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/most-dangerous-cities-america-832351

Safest Cities (Forbes):

1. Plano, Texas - 7.6% African American

2. Henderson, NV - 3.76% African American

3. Honolulu, Hawaii - 1.5%African American

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/egim45edhe/1-plano-texas/#content

So clearly there must be something to this. I would be so bold as to suggest that perhaps race has something to do with behavior (like propensity for violence and lack of impulse control). I can tell you from my own research (do your own) the same trends are evident on a global scale, so it's not isolated to the U.S.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:51 | 3740204 Jim B
Jim B's picture

I suspect most of it is related to the drug trade....

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 05:31 | 3740660 Morla
Morla's picture

The government is responsible for some half the murders in the U.S. via the drug war..

Concealed carry might help somewhat, but the real solution to gang violence is for the government to stop spending billions deliberately encouraging gang violence.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:56 | 3740215 Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

High crime shitholes tend to be populated by black majorities because they tend to be too poor to have the money to get the hell out.  All 3 of those cities (Flint Detroit StLouis) have black majorities because they've hemorrhaged their white population, not because the black population is rising.  The "safest cities" are all out in the middle of nowhere, where crime is going to be lower because population density is lower.

If you were interested in "critical thought", you would attempt to separate out some of these confounding variables and recognize that correlation is not causation.

But you're not; you're just another racist hiding behind "just asking questions".

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:21 | 3740285 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Of course....I'm 'racist' because I made those numbers up right? (the first FOUR examples I provided had nothing to do with population density, they were statistics on a NATIONWIDE basis)

I'd expect you to provide me with numbers to disprove or ameliorate what I have provided in substance but I don't expect you can. Instead you will simply resort to the lowest common denominator by calling me a racist and other ad hominem forms of attack.

All 3 of those cities (Flint Detroit StLouis) have black majorities because they've hemorrhaged their white population

And why have they "hemorrhaged their white population"? That's an interesting observation, I wish you'd elaborate.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:11 | 3740411 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Look up crime stats for other nations like Britain based on race.

No different than here.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:21 | 3740433 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Eric Holder's DOJ stats say the same thing. He just keeps it to himself, especially the part where black on white crime is 350% higher than white on black crime which hasn't budged in 100 years, same low 3% as in 1900.

 

Blacks now kill as many whites every 3 years as the democrats lynched under Jim Crow in 50 years from 1885 to 1935. And of the 4750 republicans that the democrats lynched under Jim Crow, 1350 of them were whites fighting for black civil rights (Tuskegee Institute). 

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:38 | 3740453 One And Only
One And Only's picture

You nailed it (hilariously)

It was the democratic party that was lynching blacks. It was the republican party that fought for the rights of African Americans.

Now blacks are killing white people at high rates and black people support the DEMOCRATIC party AND call republicans racist.

True irony.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 13:57 | 3742122 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Wrong!

In Chicago they tore down the "developments" (for the benefit of those that wanted the land) and built "scattered" housing all over the city. They were put in middle-class and working-class neighborhoods, etc.

Didn't change their behavior one bit.

Those of goverment have created niggers (coddled and subsidized black people) from the black community. Now, unfortunately, they are being more and more turned on the rest of the US and think themselves entitled to what we have left. That can only lead to blood.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:11 | 3740410 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I thought East St Louis (which is actually in state of Illinois) had one of the highest homicide rates 109/100K in the Western hemisphere, up there with parts of Venezuela.

 

Of course, East St Louis has about a 98% black population, everybody else GTFO. Definitely a race component in violent crime stats, but when you distilled it down it's the gangs and the same individuals doing the same shit over and over.

I know several mature black women who are sick and sad about what's happening in their hoods, but not afraid to slap the punks upside their heads. They knew them when they since were toddlers.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:51 | 3740481 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Of course there is a race component, it's obvious and it's evident world wide it's not like one neighborhood. This is evident across every city, country and continent.

Black women slapping people won't correct it. It's genetics.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 03:24 | 3740619 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

No it's Enviorment....Have you ever seen Trading Places????

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:49 | 3740800 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Who destroyed the black family in America?

Who paid unwed mothers to have children?

Who is producing little gang bangers on an industrial scale?

No father figure ... you run with the gun son.

Despite these horrific levels of violence, the vote is bought and paid for.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:01 | 3740217 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

I have to share a true story as I recall it from the 1970's.

A rural Appalachian county, which will go unnamed, known for its political corruption, illegal activities and outstanding adult nightlife had a shooting one night in a local Tavern on a major highway just outside the county seat.

A man was killed at the scene in this local night spot. It was not written up in the newspaper as a "murder", but as a "killing". It seems this individual walked into the bar and upon seeing his estranged wife with another man he returned to his vehicle for a weapon. He reentered the front door and took a shot from the door he entered, big mistake. No one was charged with his death because of all the return gunfire, it was impossible to determine who actually killed him.

It seems that firing from across the room it was impossible for patrons to tell who he was firing at among so many capable and willing to defended themselves. So, where was the crime?

It has long been understood in Appalachia, prior to being diluted with retirees and values from elsewhere, that the difference between a "murder" and a "killing" is that in a killing the victim likely deserved it. Not so much anymore but we are still light years from chicago think and respect one another for it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:05 | 3740252 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

"the difference between a "murder" and a "killing" is that in a killing the victim likely deserved it"

And who establishes who "deserves" to be killed or not? Damn, that man must be God itself!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:10 | 3740268 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Having just labeled you as a pussy, I will give you that one.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:23 | 3740298 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Thank you big man. I guess you dick so big. If not, I'll know you'll complement it with some guuunz.

 

BTW, big dick man, I've been a victim of gun violence several times. I've seen the barrel of a gun pointed straight at my face (or ballz). I lived in pretty fucked up places. Yet I never had a gun. I never was shot. And I'm still here, know how to speak 4 languages and have specific knowledge in many other areas, and doing great at work. All those gun laden freaks who once thought they were all above me are either dead, in jail, or living really miserable lives. Who won there?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:30 | 3740323 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

pussy!!!!

(apologies to others, i just could not resist..)

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:17 | 3740424 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

yo dick so biiig

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:55 | 3740373 gwar5
gwar5's picture

When bad guys with guns outnumber good guys with guns that shit will happen. Btw, screaming for help in French won't get a cop there any faster and will just piss the bad guy off even more. Just saying. 

When people are allowed to conceal carry a personal defense weapon the bad guys never know who is carrying a gun so it really fucks with their heads. That's why they brazenly act out in places like Chicago. The policy also widely protects those who choose not to carry for personal reasons.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:19 | 3740427 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

bad guys, good guys... yeah sure, manicheism all around. Reality is never that clear. In theory what you say might be true, but you know what they say: "There ain't no difference between theory and practice, except practice is always different".

 

BTW, how many of you have ever lived through being pointed blank in the face by a gun barrel held by some cracked up fucktard?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:51 | 3740485 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

I've had a similar experience with the weapon in the hands of a convicted felon who had shot his own son.   Very much shaped my personal views about rights to self defense and legitimate options to exercise same.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:58 | 3740493 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Well yeah, we wouldn't be here if we hadn't lived through it, but I take your meaning!

 

I've been around guns all my life and was an officer in the military and had to operate on people with gunshot wounds, so yes, the world is a dangerous place. But it is the bad guys who should be feeling the fear, instead of you, because we massively outnumber them. 

If you can't avoid dangerous people in your line of work, and have never shot a gun, it might be wise of you to find somebody to take you to a local gun range and just shoot a small caliber gun a few times there just to help desensitize yourself to them. You'll feel more in control about them and a little more empowered overall again.  

Serious persons who carry concealed weapons are usually the best of the best, undergone background checks, and are real gun safety freaks. Yes, they do practice a lot, but it will never, ever replace situational awareness to first foresee and avoid a bad situation coming towards you. A gun is pretty useless if you don't have time to react.  

 

 

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:21 | 3740915 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

I'm sorry but I don't believe the good guy / bad guy dialectic. Manicheism is not my thing.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 03:53 | 3740632 Bloodstock
Bloodstock's picture

Me! I've had a revolver pointed at the side of my head as I was being robbed, didn't get shot but didn't like it one damned bit. Now get over yourself. Depending upon the circumstances of where I may be, having a weapon for self defense should be my choice as per the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United Statres of America period! Read it sometime Mr. Immature-dick-fixation. Why you got to be so paranoid?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:23 | 3740920 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

All I know is that if on these gun violence situations I had a gun, I'd be dead, some friends or family would have ended up dead; or I'd end up killing someone. I see no positive results in any of those options. The best of them all was not having a gun at all.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:23 | 3740311 Blano
Blano's picture

If you're shooting at me, when I haven't done anything to you, you deserve to die.  Period.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:20 | 3740430 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Did you ever seriously think what is it to live with the burden of knowing to have killed someone else?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:44 | 3740783 noless
noless's picture

Who are you ashamed of killing? Do you still see their family around?

In a previous post you said something about loving the power you have over others now, and you don't sound all that articulate. I can't imagine that you are all that young if you actually possess such ability.

Also, wtf is with your penis fixation, seriously, who the fuck preaches this idiotic gun= penis thing?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:18 | 3740910 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

When you kill someone, if you're not a psychopath, you'll live with that burden for the rest of your life; even if you see the victim's family or not.

I didn't say anything about power over others. I said I was a victim of gun violence several times, I never had a gun; those who inflicted gun violence on me now are either dead, in jail or living miserable lives; not me.

Gun = penis thing is totally Freudian.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:23 | 3740919 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

What burden?

If they were trying to kill me I'd be damn happy to be faster and better than they were.

Bad guy made a very serious mistake. End of story.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:30 | 3740940 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

You really don't get it, do you? Or you're a psycho? You think killing another human being is a simple procedure, like signing forms or something?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:41 | 3740352 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Sounds like the bar was full of good marksman who knew the local laws because they all did the right thing at the same time. Justifiable homicide includes self defense and the defense of somebody else's life, too.

 

Guns or knives in the defense over property is generally a chargeable offense. You generally, can't shoot a guy stealing your car unless he tries to jump you or run you over. Know the local laws, must generally be afraid for your life or the life of another. Too bad teachers don't carry.

 

 

 

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:06 | 3740865 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

The return fire was democratically voted on.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:40 | 3740970 One of these is...
One of these is not like the others..'s picture

Acthungaffen makes a fair if unpopular point actually.

I also happen to know that the first time you take anotehr life for fully devloped human beings the experience is most unsettling and it's not to be taken on lightly, by non psychopathic people.

Some of you (IMHO) need to decide where you stand in that regard...

 

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