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Klarman Clarity: "If The Government [Still] Can't Allow Failure Then We Are Indeed Close To Collapse"
One of the most insightful comments explaining what happened last night, when Bernanke just killed all credibility that the economy may soon be able to stand up on its own two legs, comes from Seth Klarman who crushed the logic (or lack thereof) behind proclaiming any recovery in a world in which the only marginal factor preventing an all out collapse in the stock market and thus economy is, and continues, to be the Federal Reserve which has not only destroyed the market's discounting function, but with every passing day is taking over both the entire US economy (the Fed's balance sheet is now 25% of US GDP) and the US bond market (currently in possession of 30% of all 10 Year equivalents).
To wit:
If the economy is so fragile that the government cannot allow failure, then we are indeed close to collapse
And the rest of Klarman's sermon, serving as the perfect counter to the voodoo shamans operating their Keynesian religion in the Marriner Eccles building. From Seth Klarman of Baupost:
Is it possible that the average citizen understands our country's fiscal situation better than many of our politicians or prominent economists?
Most people seem to viscerally recognize that the absence of an immediate crisis does not mean we will not eventually face one. They are wary of believing promises by those who failed to predict previous crises in housing and in highly leveraged financial institutions.
They regard with skepticism those who don't accept that we have a debt problem, or insist that inflation will remain under control. (Indeed, they know inflation is not well under control, for they know how far the purchasing power of a dollar has dropped when they go to the supermarket or service station.)
They are pretty sure they are not getting reasonable value from the taxes they pay.
When an economist tells them that growing the nation's debt over the past 12 years from $6 trillion to $16 trillion is not a problem, and that doubling it again will still not be a problem, this simply does not compute. They know the trajectory we are on.
When politicians claim that this tax increase or that spending cut will generate trillions over the next decade, they are properly skeptical over whether anyone can truly know what will happen next year, let alone a decade or more from now.
They are wary of grand bargains that kick in years down the road, knowing that the failure to make hard decisions is how we got into today's mess. They remember that one of the basic principles of economics is scarcity, which is a powerful force in their own lives.
They know that a society's wealth is not unlimited, and that if the economy is so fragile that the government cannot allow failure, then we are indeed close to collapse. For if you must rescue everything, then ultimately you will be able to rescue nothing.
They also know that the only reason paper money, backed not by anything tangible but only a promise, has any value at all is because it is scarce. With all the printing, the credibility of our entire trust-based monetary system will be increasingly called into question.
And when you tell the populace that we can all enjoy a free lunch of extremely low interest rates, massive Fed purchases of mounting treasury issuance, trillions of dollars of expansion in the Fed's balance sheet, and huge deficits far into the future, they are highly skeptical not because they know precisely what will happen but because they are sure that no one else--even, or perhaps especially, the policymakers—does either.
That is all.
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No doubt. But I'd like to disarm TPTB politically, first. And asymetric is all we have...
badges, we don't need no stinking badges
perhaps the reason you're not seeing any leaders is cuz you're not looking in the right mirrors?
just a thought.
Same mirror every morning. Same guy starin' back.
So step close and let's see what you reflect... What plan or strategy do you offer for consideration?
[Edit] +1 For the link.
Aim low boys, they're ridin' ponies.
My quick scorecard shows Klarman is now in the same bunker with Kyle Bass.
GS and JPM jumping up and down screaming "EVERYTHING'S FINE"
Anybody have any quotes from Michael Burry?
The last time you mentioned him, fonz, I went and googled him and yes he is active. Gold and actual land:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sWhvOaavTQ
edit: oh sh!t, that's from 2010.
edit2: oh wait, from 2012? YouTube says one thing but Burry's blog says it's from 2012:
http://michaelburryblog.blogspot.com/
Burrys modus operandi tells us he will not be giving any quotes/opinions. He doesnt show his cards until he has to. That said,
Burry would say (obviously).... "buy all the gold... buy all the productive assests you can get your hands on. farmland with its own water source... anything that doesnt need middle men to obtain and anything that gov'ments cant tax rape.
Skyrise rental units (think eastern block country family housing slum units),
Goods that require little to no power...handtools, bicycles, livestock, mopeds, beds, swamp coolers.
Look at other shit countries. What does the middle class do when they have to live without credit or in debt? They do things themselves. They buy durable goods. They use ebay/cl. Multi-gen housing.
Dont forget the upper class. They will be buying more BMWs and luxury goods than ever. Boats, planes, booze, hookers.
Time to start your hedge fund Fonz. Hookers Capital. You can even advertise on ZH with the new SEC ruling and all the guys living at mom&dads can invest their $1400 savings.
Isn't this story four years old now.
quit thinking and BTFD
Keep Stackin'
Buy land
Buy copper-coated lead
Get moar food
Just picked up two more 100 can cases of sardines this morning.
Beats cannibalism.
What's the shelf life on those sardines?
+1
For a penetrating question...
What's the shelf life on those sardines? -- ZeroPoint
Depends on whether the can is being used as food or money.
I'd way rather stack cans of tuna.
unopened cans of salty fish? Really? Pretty damn long by most standards of stored wet food.
Come to think of it, I may be low on supply so maybe I should load up. Been saving more moar gold coinz so... slipped my mind. I have salmon, tuna, etc., in cans too though so not running super low.
Don't knock it til you've tried it.
Wendigo Meats Inc.
The IPO will be happening soon!
well said .. Armstrong has the spark getting lit Oct. 1, 2015.
In the meantime, dollar to rally, wealth to move from public assets ..bonds to private assets, stocks and real estate.
It's always wise to trust those who are calling such events to the day.
We would have gone in '08 but for the Bernanke and the financial coup d'etat (spelled TARP)....
There will be no "collapse"...but there should be some huge bumps in the road....very scary bumps....like when we lose the reserve currency thing..that will shake things up some....
Loss of the Reserve currency statis will be a big deal. It's when they loose a great deal of leverage.
The US dollar deserves to loose the reserve currency status. It's abused it's privilege.
And what would signify such a change of status?
Bueller? Bueller?? Anyone?
Like picking a dirtier dirty shirt ?
Plenty of things. Non-dollar denominated bilateral trade agreements, dumping (slow or fast) of dollar reserves (I suppose this is one's tautological), peg revaluations or elimination, more contracts settled in bullion or anything else, and devaluation at home (hmmm...). Oh, and any serious challenges to the petrodollar system (already in progress), in particular.
There isn't a single signal and it will not happen overnight - until it does.
Collapse #1 aka "QEinfinity" = loss of reserve status and hyperinflation destroying the power of the Fed and opening the door for gold currency
Collapse #2 aka "Taper" = bond and stock market bloodbaths, private and gov't bankruptcies far and wide (great fire sale bargains!)
I kinda like either one. Ben can't decide.
It will be interesting....
Losing reserve status means we go to war.... plain and simple. The U.S. will not allow ourselves to completely lose reserve status without a war first.... Petro dollar is key to that whole deal. ( IMHO )
We still spend more than the rest of the world combined on war machines.... if we can keep the petro dollar on our own then we'll just kick asses.
Might sound a bit "tin foil conspiracy" but, Libya wanted to trade oil for a new gold backed currency... Um, that didn't happen.
Or, I could be completely full of shit.... who knows?! There are a LOT of folks on here smarter than I am.
War is expensive. Hard to pay for stuff with Monopoly money.
Plus, taking care of Libya was relative child's play. Good luck trying to stop Iran or – ahem – China from circumventing dollars by using military means.
@twirling towrd
I don't know that you're completetely full of shit. But I know this much, there doesn't have to be a war.
latin america here I come... wait, when the collapse happens will I still be able to use my atm card?
If ya love it, fight for it. Don't run from it.
+1
What more needs be said?
Amen
The US dollar's value should be a great deal lower.
The value it ( the dollar) has/gets is from Bernanke's talking ass.
All fart and no substance
We've been screwed since before 2008. We've been screwed since 71' when Nixon took us off the Gold Standard completely, all so he and every politician who followed him could spend without limits. If you haven't already you may want to get some "Insurance" for yourself. ie: gold and other precious metals... http://goo.gl/clATk
Point well taken, but I'm going to say we've been screwed since 1913. Creation of the Federal Reserve AND the Federal Income tax.
I'll go even further.
We've been screwed every since the Government was created. I don't need a Government to "protect" me. The Government impoverishes you, while claiming that it is protecting you from people that will step in and... impoverish you.
I may find that I do need to hire the services of a private business that answers to the free market, for a modicum of protection. I believe that most protective services today are provided by the free market, not by Government.
In a free society, no business could exist that was not providing a benefit, some kind of value, to society. The only kind of monopoly is a Government created monopoly. The concept of TBTF is something that came only from Government. It implanted it in peoples minds in order to prop the current monopolies which serve the Government and it's crony capitalism(which is not capitalism). There is no such thing as TBTF in the free market.
+1 but I would counter-argue that for those who are weakest & poorest they are least able to pay for protection of any sort. Obviously we can see what government goons do to extract protection money and then offer that "protection" by then jailing whoever they please, murdering & planting evidence as they see fit. One could also add the Darwinian argument that we'll have more fit households & communities when self-reliance & self-defense is the first line of defense instead of the government.
I don't even like using the term "crony capitalism" because it's always corporate cronies, mere humans being but a mouthpiece for the monolith & interchanged at a whim. I call it Fascism because that's what it is.
Don't de-personalize it.
...mere humans being but a mouthpiece for the monolith... -- MeelionDollerBogus
Those humans make decisions for the monolith and comprise the workings of leviathan.
+1
by that logic you were screwed since gold was confiscated in 1933. And so it is.
EBT Card = Free lunch. Woohoo!
Purchasing a slave a meal is a small price to pay when you can jet to Europe for a snack.
Going long appocolyptic insurance.
When the Fed Reserve is dependent on the Stock Market staying at highs and ging to new highs that says it all.
The public gets it. They are just locked in a closet by the burglars robbing them. It is interesting that Edward Snowden an admitted fellon on the run with a conscience has 3 times the approval rating of congress. So yes the public knows our economy is a fabrication by hidden forces.
The public either does not get it or is or is totally pussy whipped. If the public got it and had any balls they would quit laying down and taking it.
More guns in the hands of the public here than in Eygpt. Yet Eygpt is getting it.
The Mid East is getting hungry for food. THAT is what makes the difference.
While I absolutely agree with this article's point of view, the 'collapse' will not happen for some time. Inevitable? Of course. But as with all bubbles, they last much longer than many think (and want). The stock market, which is now broadly known as the economy, and the Fed Balance sheet since 2008 are nearly 100% correlated. We will have a 10-20% correction soon, it won't be a collapse. I suspect it will be more tapering rhetoric, market gets scared alongside some (ongoing) European issue, Ben says if I made myself clear you misunderstood me, QE5 and were off to new highs by mid 2014. What I'm more excited about is to watch the REAL unemployment figures, increase in government-dependant souls, debt/GDP ratio, sheeple/realists ratio and the value of my bullets increase over the next 10 years. Can't wait!
Because nearly all of America is supported by the publicly traded apparatus, the collapse happens when the stock market blows up. 90% of the stock market economy is fake, nothing but inventory transfer, tax write offs, and bullshit accounting entries. All to keep that ticker symbol going up in value. Employees have no worth, only there to make it look like the parent company is worth something and doing work.
I meet with groups of people and major publicly traded corporations and I'll be damned if I can figure out what any of them do that can be considered work.
The entire system has been manipulated to create wealth for a small group of people who wish to never labor for income. Most wouldn't even be qualified to flip burgers in a private enterprise system. Which also means most of the people who work for them really don't have a useful job.
What percentage of wealth in today's world comes from earned income? We know that 90% of the wealth is held by 15% of the people. Nearly all of that comes from real estate and stock market gains. So it is safe to say that at least 80% of the world's wealth is unearned.
Is it any wonder then why the stock market is all that matters. Without it somewhere around 80% of the world's wealth evaporates. Forget about real estate, the only thing holding up values is the unearned increase in wealth that allows the rich to buy more of it.
Collapse means sending those who run the Fortune 500 to the poverty line. I for one would love to yell FUCK YOU at a begging Blankfein.
What the collapse will look like is 80 million Americans waking up one day finding out they no longer have a job. You really have to wonder how millions of Americans could be fired in the last collapse without hurting the production or profits of the publicly traded corporations they worked for. It means they weren't needed and didn't actually do anything. Because the revenue of the corporations they worked for is all fake.
In a real productive economy you can't fire your way to growth. Because then you don't have anyone to produce, yet our reality is that with the lowest pool of labor in 40 years, you can have corporate profits that demolish any previous record. That doesn't seem odd to anyone?
I think you've hit the nail on the head, adr..
When will this blow up? What will be the initial trigger?
adr, don't you realize that pyramids don't build themselves?
Seth, my man, the average citizen doesn't understand jack shit and that is the problem.
Well that's subjective, i repealed the bill of rights.
Seth, my man, the average citizen doesn't understand jack shit and that is the problem.
Whenever I send article after article, EXPLAINING this situation to my friends, they always respond That is way too far over the top!,so they refuse to see or believe.I tell them WHEN it happens, you will remember YOU were warned,your own blood is on your head.All we can do is be the Watchmen on the Wall,it's not our responsibility to save them, just warn them.After that it's ALL on their back.
Fuck You Bernanke.
Fuck you a Quadrillion times Bernanke.
I agree with what he is saying, but right off the bat he may also be minunderstanding the vast majority of the American public:
"Is it possible that the average citizen understands our country's fiscal situation better than many of our politicians or prominent economists?"
To that question above I would say "No". I would say the the average citizen barely even knows what planet they're on at this point. No joke. Now if he would have asked, "Is it possible the average informed citizen who ignores the MSM and .gov; who reads alternate economic media, such as ZeroHedge and it's many contributers; and who has escaped the brainwashing propaganda that most of the sheeple are being bombarded with, understand our country's fiscal situation better than...."?
Well, then I'd say the answer would be "Yes". But in my estimation, and everyone can jump in with their own estimates too, but I think maybe only 20% tops of our population has a clue what's really going on. And so the average of those 20% and the above average folks has a very good grasp of what's happening and what is going to inevitably happen.
The rest of the sheeple are totally fucking clueless, and that is going to be the other side of the reason this whole thing will definitely collapse. And even many of those who do think they know and understand what's going on really don't. Because they're basing their MIS-understanding on their idiotic political ideology within the right/left paradigm that's being used against them to divide our nation while these corrupt scumbags on BOTH sides continue to rape and pillage the entire country.
Another, in my opinion, poor assumption of this article is that "we" or a certain number of "us" know more about what's going on than the policiticians and economists do. Maybe in some cases that could be true, but I think it's a HUMONGOUS mistake to paint these policiticians, economists, the media, the bankster gangsters, hollywood, etc. etc., as unknowing of how the moves they make, the things they say, and the laws they pass as being uninformed in some way.
People: These sociopaths know exactly what they're doing. They know exactly what lies and propaganda they are spewing to the public. The fully understand the destruction they're causing throughout America and the rest of the world. These are evil fucking Socialist/Marxist traitors who set out on a mission to destroy the free Constiutional Republic of the U.S.A. well over 100 years ago.
They have always understood that they needed to slowly nudge and incrementally push the American people and political spectrum further left little by little by doing all this evil shit to us slowly over time. They know what they're doing. They are the enemy of America and all free thinking people in this world. They are a cancer within, eating us from inside out until only the shell of America will be left which will collapse in on itself once they're through with us.
They understand fully that by deindustrializing America by sending all our manufacturing to the East is turning us into a slave nation of useless eaters fighting amonst ourselves and rotting away our society...they know this will bring about a fascist police state to control the masses and shut us down economically.
They fully understand letting 10's of millions of illegal aliens into America will be one of the last nails in our coffin and it will never be reversable.
They understand this because they know they have to take us down in order to bring in their one world governance under the U.N. or whatever it eventually becomes.
Us thinking that all this shit they do to us is just becauase they are misguided in what they think they need to do to HELP us recover from the destruction they have purposely created over the last 100 plus years has got to stop. They know what they're doing. They're decades ahead of most of us in their plans and processes and goals to destroy America.
And the public has been so dumbed down by the force fed indoctrination of this pathetic educational system, multi-media bombardment of brain rotting propaganda, food-water-and drug poisoning, and psychological warfare from the elitist corrupt political demons on BOTH sides, that I do highly doubt that better than 20% have some kind of elemental grasp on reality well enough to understand the ramifications of what all this has done to our country and how it will eventually usher in the collapse at some point.
It's full spectrum dominance at it's worst, and although more and more people are waking up, I fear that many will be lost forever and won't be of any help when it comes times to really bring the fight hardcore once again.
Don't let them get our guns folks, becauase that will be the end of us all.
Oh, and yes...Fuck You Bernanke! That's better :)
Standing, Clapping. Brilliant post. Very Succinct and captures nearly all of it.
They DO know what they are doing.
"They understand this because they know they have to take us down in order to bring in their one world governance under the U.N. or whatever it eventually becomes."
Thanks man...much appreciated.
-1
For begging the question...
The rest of the sheeple are totally fucking clueless... Save_America1st
What are you gonna do about it?
Sleep with the sheeple, or hide and bitch with the "informed" 20 percent? Both groups are cowards and effectively useless. Which are you?
BTW, if twenty percent of the us are informed, that is more than enough people to get the ball rolling. But only if you are willing... to think and act.
I've been twisting people's arms and their BRAINS over this shit for 10+ years now. I wish it had been longer, but ZeroHedge wasn't around then! ;-)
I've converted many friends here in Florida to buying guns and ammo and getting their concealed carry permit. I don't agree with having to get gun permits because we should be able to open carry anywhere we want to! But it is what it is, and Florida has been working on open carry permits, and hopefully one day we'll have it.
Many of us now regularaly hit the range together and I'm glad a lot of my friends are now so into guns along with me. I'll tell you it wasn't easy. It's always seemed so odd to me that normal people, especially guys, had never shot guns before and it never even occurred to them to buy and carry a sidearm! But now we could be a small well-armed and "well regulated militia"! How kick ass is that?
I have woken many people up to the dangers of this tyrannical government and the fascist police state being built up all around us. I've got people reading sites like this and many others and have gotten them reading BOOKS, which is no easy task these days, that's for sure. I'm typically reading several books all at once.
I email a very large group of people so many damn articles from online, especially from ZH, because it's the only site that covers so damn much about these important subjects and provides us with so much insite into things I had never even heard about until 4 or 5 years ago.
I have a degree. But this site has been instrumental in educating me beyond anything I ever knew before. And I pass as much on from this site as I possibly can. And it has worked!
I've woken so many people up to preparing and stacking phyzz...silver and gold. I've been stacking for 3 years now and almost feel I am way above average now in my understanding of the metals markets and how this system is manipulated and the importance of stacking phyzz and getting ourselves out of this fiat system, etc. etc. etc.
New people at work come up to me now to ask me about silver. Nobody has ever taken to it right away like I did, but over time they've ended up figuring things out after reading everything I've sent them and actually seeing now how bad things are, and sure enough they start asking questions of me on their own and it's great to see the lightbulb burning bright once all this shit finally clicks in someones head about what's really going on.
I'm stacking as much supplies as I can, and the only thing I haven't been able to do yet is to be able to save enough up to quit my job and bug the hell out of this city to the mountains out West where I'd like to just get a small place off-grid and call it good. Hunt for what I need and just do what I need to do.
I've traveled to the District of Criminals alone twice in the last few years to voice my opinion to the criminal CON-gress critters faces.
So I feel I've woken a lot of people up over the last several years, and until the day comes when I can or do bug outta town I'll keep doing everything I can to wake more people up.
Like I said, it's taken a lot of arm and brain twisting to do it. But I'm trying, Ringo...I'm trying real hard.
***So, Ringo...I see you've only been around here for a little over 5 weeks. Maybe you're just a Troll trying to stir the pot? Who knows...Maybe I shouldn't have bothered to explain anything to you as detailed as I did, but like I said...I do try. But I sure don't hide behind a computer screen calling people I don't know and never will know cowards like some kind of hypocrite.
+1
For...
...it's great to see the lightbulb burning bright once all this shit finally clicks in someones head about what's really going on. -- Save_America1st
And it's good to see someone thinking on their feet...
...trying to stir the pot? -- Save_America1st
Most recipes call for pot stirring. This one is no different. I am happy to do so, if it serves a greater purpose...
And the problem is greater purpose.
I'm glad you and your friends like target practice. And merely note that you voluntarily add your name to a law enforcement database (concealed carry permit) declaring that ownership. But buying and owning guns is hardly a courageous act. Moreover, your small and well-regulated militia will not last long -- you romaticize brutal and bloody violence; that's implicit in your writing... HunnyBunny.
You will not get your Alamo, unless you want it. Just local police escorting some "gentlemen" from .gov to your door. Over and done. Resist... an MRAP rolls up, heavily armed, armoured, and well-trained paramilitary gunmen pour through your door, as your neighbors watch from behind their curtains, and in the end...
Another murder / suicide in [your town here] where a man killed his wife and children, then turned his gun upon himself, early this morning. Officers at the scene said... All carefully documented for posterity by the one-eyed-god.
And perhaps I am a hypocrite. Read what I write and judge for yourself.
For example:
We know there are people looking for... something. Occupy and Tea Party are ready indicators of their desire. But Tea Party management got bought out and Occupy was a put-up job.
Aye, there's the rub. In an age of astroturf, how does one create a leaderless, decentralized, local political movement with nation-wide effect?
What is our plan?
If you do not plan to do so, how can you affect the outcome when the time is ripe?
I'm looking for opinion leaders to advocate a strategy that exposes us the least, by using the popular mythos of the Constitution and Bill of Rights politically against our adversaries. But you have to sign on for real democracy, tempered only by Constitutional process to make it happen. That Constitutional process is robust, and biased against the elite -- we control it by popular ratification.
However, the key to success is discrediting the elite twin-parties and de-legitmizing our current political leadership by voting against them to invoke that process... taking them out of the game. It's a political choice made in the ballot box. Peacefully.
This is the implicit promise the authors of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution included -- democratic evolution rather than bloody revolution to throw off would-be tyrants. All you must do is consider this question: Do you consent to what the US government is doing? And vote your conscience.
No Candidates, No Consent.
Anything else you care to do is simply up to you.
And if you need further validation of just how powerful our use of the Constitution is, and how scared the elite that we might use it:
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/professor-seidman-authors-book-on-con...
Now whom was that Georgetown history prof that pointed a young Clinton at a Rhodes scholarship?
Or perhaps this:
Apparently you do not understand the Declaration of Independence nor Constitution. And by not voting you ensure your enslavement.
The twin parties are the scam, not voting. Nothing in the Constitution mandates political parties, much less the elite's twin parties. Stop voting for them. But vote. And if there are no suitable candidates, vote to explicitly revoke your consent to be governed by the bastards.
And perhaps, if only 1% (say ~10-20M) voted for candidates and TPTB declared a "winner", do you really think the 99% (~130-180M) whom voted to revoke their consent are not going to enforce their will? (And I would love to have those numbers.)
Would such a government be seen as legitimate? Would it's orders automatically be followed?
Perhaps we'll have to water the tree of liberty. But let's not neglect strategy and commonsense in a rush to shed our brothers' blood. Cut their legitimacy out from under them first, and perhaps they'll simply fall. If not, we march...
Or this:
"I never gave my consent for this shit.....how does one NOT give consent in a "Democracy"? And what happens to you if you do refuse to consent?" -- SimMaker
+1 Because you're pissed and ready for change.
-1 Because you don't understand the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
Which means it's being used against you... by denying the essential nature of our Constitutional contract.
The Constitution is nothing more than a contract between each and every American citizen. Our contract simply describes how we govern ourselves, and the Constitutional offices -- government -- it defines as our representatives.
We, you and I, are parties to this social contract. Government is the object of our agreement, the subject of our contract. Government cannot legitimately exceed the bounds of our contract as it is not party to it, but merely our agent. Our employee.
When an employee acts toward an employer, as our government now does toward us, what does the employer do?
Thus consent. Specifically your consent to be governed. Our consent to be governed. Or not. Consent is meaningless without the ability to dissent -- to just say No.
To be valuable, genuine, one must be able to answer either Yes or No to the question: Do you consent to be governed under the Constitution?
We answer Yes to this question each time we elect candidates to office. When you vote for a candidate, you implicitly consent to be governed by any candidate elected to the office. As a result of our collective consent, the new government (i.e.: candidates elected to Constitutional offices) is legitimated.
Because your consent to be governed is implicit in voting to fill Constitutional offices, you must revoke your consent explicitly by voting not to fill those offices. Your intent to revoke your consent must be clear and politically relevant. No Candidates, No Consent.
Will the government recognize such a vote? Government has no choice, as it is not party to our contract. Government is our employee, and if enough citizens revoke their consent to be governed, we will have fired those employees occupying Constitutional offices.
Certainly, TPTB, or shadow government as so aptly described above, will declare "winners" in any such contested election. But if, 20-30M vote for candidates and 100-120M vote to revoke their consent will that government be considered legitimate?
Will that 100-120M submit if they know their strength?
I don't romanticize a conflict against these sociopaths, but I certainly won't be one to cower if ever confronted with it. I'm not about us pulling the trigger first. I'm sure they're "false flag" events will eventually become enough to spark things off. Just like Hitler pulled with the Reichtstag fire.
But my point is that at least I was able to get more people to wake up and realize their 2nd Amendment right when before it actually never even occurred to them to do so. I think most Americans might be that way...just kind of in a fog. They never meant to ignore their own God given rights, they just forgot about them due to the relentless, constant bombardment of garbage night and day, 24/7 that Americans are subjected to, and they don't realize if you don't use it you can lose it. It is true that all it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men (and women as well) to do nothing.
And our Declaration of Independence speaks pretty clearly to me:
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
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You could easily replace "history of the present King of Great Britain" above with "history of the U.S. Government" for the most part, and everything else still easily fits in place. They have lost their way after so many decades of rotten deeds done by shady characters and it's time we revoke our consent to letting these snakes govern over us when it is We The People who should rightfully lead the way.
I think the only way to cure these problems created by government are the original Constitution and Bill of Rights themselves. They have been deformed and trampled upon by evil men who hate the restrictions put upon them by the original intent of those documents, and that's why we should go back to them.
They were designed and written the way they were for very specific reasons, and they would work just fine today if evil people were kept from altering and ignoring them. Corrupt traitors all of them.
I do consent to the Constitution, but we are no longer governed by it today. We are ruled over by evil traitors and insesently badgered by their un-Constitutional laws, policies, rules, fees, taxes, surcharges, entitlements, etc. etc. etc.
No scumbag politician honestly means it when they take the oath. They're liars...sociopaths. Not all, but damn near all. And if they weren't at first they quickly become corrupted by the system or else they're ground up and spit out on the other side like hamburger.
Ron Paul made it many years without selling his sole to the devil. I never voted for the douchebags that the fraudulent oligarchy tried to throw in our faces over the years.
I write in: "Ron Paul". - I'm sure my ballots get thrown away by the criminals running the polls and they just put one in place for me filled out as they so choose. lol
Whatever...I still don't consent to them.
+1
For...
...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government... -- The Declaration of Independence
If you wrote in RP, you voted for RP, and thereby consent to be governed under the Constititution by any candidate elected to the office. And that was your right. I voted for Jill. But I will not waste another vote on the bastards.
There are other amendments and passages just as important as the second. It backstops us, certainly. But we must breathe life into all of it, not just some of it. It's going to be a dogfight. Up for it?
Why do you think I'm interested?
But my point is that at least I was able to get more people to wake up and realize their 2nd Amendment right when before it actually never even occurred to them to do so. -- Save_America1st
And because...
I think the only way to cure these problems created by government are the original Constitution and Bill of Rights themselves. -- Save_America1st
That's a principled stand. I respect that.
Moreover I agree that...
We are ruled over by evil traitors... No scumbag politician honestly means it when they take the oath. -- Save_America1st
Please consider what I'm proposing carefully. If you like it, tell your friends. Then vote for it. That's all I ask.
It is true that all it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men (and women as well) to do nothing. -- Save_America1st
He speaks of the "average citizen":
"When an economist tells them that growing the nation's debt over the past 12 years from $6 trillion to $16 trillion is not a problem, and that doubling it again will still not be a problem, this simply does not compute. They know the trajectory we are on."
The average American Citizen never listens to an economist, has no idea what the current debt is, and lives for today having no idea what a trajectory is or how to spell it!
They do their taxes on an EZ form or pay HR Block to do them. Some who never touched their IRA's after the crash are happy because they see, in their eyes, that they have been made whole again.
They do not see the no longer statistically non existent Americans because they do not go where they are. If they do see them, they blame them for bringing the problem on themselves.
The average American is still stuck in clouds of propaganda myths focused on hating everyone but the ones who are the true enemy.
The problem with Klarman and others is they have no clue who or what an average american is. They do not go where Average americans are. If they do run across them they rape, pillage and plunder them and then say, "this is what the average American wants."
And the average American has no clue that they are doing it. They are stuck in the right/left meme that has been perverted to such an extent they no longer know right from left and will subvert their own beliefs perpetuating the parental mantra, "Do as I say and not as I do."
The average american has been trained to get fucked and cheers of the oppression of those who dare rebel.
All proclamations that sooner or later the average American will rise up and revolt are trees falling dead in a forest that no one hears.
Those who cry the government can take my gun when they unwrapped my cold dead hands from it's barrel will be the first to give them up when the gestapo knocks on their door.
American history has proven that the average American will do nothing more than hold their hand out and may have enough balls to say, "please sir, I want some more!"
I work with very nice people. I know for a fact though, that none of them read ANY books, researchs ANYTHING, or know much about ANYTHING outside of the latest tv show or new missing girl news story. I've tried talking to them about business, markets, science, or math, and they don't have ANY clue about what I'm talking about. Outside of the local sports team, they are uniformed and like it that way. It makes me sad.
That is the default for all people everywhere always. It costs some effort/time/money to do things like learn (read, debate, research, etc.) which could be spent doing other things - a simple economic calculation, as time, moeny, and energy are scarce "commodities".
It comes down to bounded rationality, simply because people enjoy, and believe they will enjoy or otherwise benefit from some things more than others, and don't have infinite means to do all of them.
Not directed at you personally, but people really need to stop imagining that in a socioeconomic mode wherein almost everyone is busy, quite reasonably, with many different chores, that the average person can ever hope to be more than minimally educated/learned/informed (particularly when there's no real incentive to be so). It's a nice ideal, but it's totally unrealistic for myriad reasons, even more so in a time when information vastly exceeds knowledge, and both are growing, at an accelerating rate, such that professionals must be constantly learning - unheard of in any previous society: knowledge was knowledge, it didn't change, it didn't grow within one human lifetime, and it travelled on foot.
"Argue for your limitations and they are yours" Richard Bach
Cybernetics. Marrying technology and Command and Control procedures.
Heidegger warned of this long ago. It is a direct route to fascism.
From a statistical vantage point, you can optimize mechanical systems.
That markets are self reflexive seems to be a point that the Central Planners ignore, or discount simply as noise.
How do you statistically optimize self reflexive systems?
What I can't figure is that if $16 trillion in debt is OK and even $30 trillion is fine, what happens when the economy normalizes, which is the goal of the FED, and interest rates rise significantly? Does the increase in revenues, assuming that more taxpayers are created, offset the rise in interset costs to service an increasing debt? I don't hear Sir Benny addressing this question with his mumbo-jumbo voodoonomics.
Don't you worry, the CBO has it all worked out.
According to their projections, things will gradually improve two presidents down the road.
471 Too Small to matter US banks have failed since Sept 19th 2008.
It's good to be big!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBAl9cchQac
Future living for about 50% of mericans with Ben non stop printing Bernanke at the helm
You Can Pick Up This $5,000 House And Take It With You http://www.fastcoexist.com/node/1682437
http://foundhouse.cc/index.html
Close to collapse?
HUH? We've already collapsed, but have gotten really good at pretending all is well. Just look around. Everything is phony and supported by continuing fraud. I don't even think more than 1/3rd of the SHEEPLE are even paying any bills with their own "money."
It's BEEN OVER!
Fuck you Bernanke!
Wars lay waste to the physical infrastructure so that central banks can make exponentially more money on the rewind/rebuild. C.S. Lewis thought that we ignored the advice of the ancients against basing an economy/society on interest and debt.
It feels like a man who has been on the wrong side of a trade and is desperate. Although 150 is chump change for this guy I suppose - still think he is betting on collapse.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2013/07/10/seth-klarmans-baupost-hedge-fund-loses-more-than-150-million-on-gold-miners/
Klarman's many references to "they" (the average citizen) knowing about all these things he mentions is probably a tad optimistic.
For sure, folks who read ZH "know" all these things and have watched it play out for about 5 years.
But I suspect the average citizen is more than willing to soak up the endless propaganda spewed out by MSM, expert economists, central bankers and of course the lying politicians.
The average citizen is having an extended attack of cognitive dissonance which has forced him/her into denial. Some may suspect that economic matters are not as good as they're being told, but what can they do about it? And when they consider what the real conditions may be, it scares them to death. "It doesn't bear thinking about" must be going thru their heads. All they can do is to carry on and the wiser ones take some precautionary measures where possible, eg: reduce spending on junk.
Another aspect of this is that IF the ruling elites know what corrective actions are necessary (IMO most of them do not), the measures would be so painful for a while that it would almost certainly bring about howls of anger and the end of our fake democracy. Obama is already trying to do that with his Stasi v2.0 police state and mass surveillance, but without too much pain for the uninformed masses. They will agree to anything if it makes them feel safer.
Excellent point, smacker:
"The average citizen is having an extended attack of cognitive dissonance which has forced him/her into denial. Some may suspect that economic matters are not as good as they're being told, but what can they do about it? And when they consider what the real conditions may be, it scares them to death. "It doesn't bear thinking about" must be going thru their heads. All they can do is to carry on and the wiser ones take some precautionary measures where possible, eg: reduce spending on junk."
It's the path of least resistance via denial with some awareness (spending less $) plus cognitive dissonance. I see it all around me among "educated" average citizens who should know better, 99.9% of my family members, my husband and friends. I feel so isolated at times. ZeroHedge helps. :)
You're never isolated on ZeroHedge :-)
Seriously, many people on ZH including myself find it difficult to discuss the perilous state of the global casino financial system, insolvent banks, unsustainable sovereign debt levels etc etc with folks who are not in the know and prefer to stay in denial. All we can do is let them stew in their ignorance and try to avoid too much Schadenfreude when they get caught with their pants down!
I try.. but this messenger has been shot over & over again, (so) I've become quiet again.. Thanks for your thoughts. :)
oh it's so much worse. The average citizen is watching Honey Boo Boo and the subset of them that watch the MSM news are considered "extra smart" by their own selves and "numb nuts who watch news, newz is for pussies" by the average who watch Snooki and Honey Boo Boo.
The 0.0001% who actually read zerohedge are so far off into left field (in a good way) compared to all these dumb fucks it's not even funny.
At this point I think I'm gonna go into denial and turn on Honey Boo Boo.
/s
Completely disagree with the premise that the average person even remotely understands anything the fed is doing. They have no fucking idea. 95% of our whole county's lifestyle is predicated on doing as little as possible and expecting the large reward. While I agree with the outcomes he presents, I do not think has an one iota of understanding of the social nature of not only the US but the world
"They are wary of grand bargains that kick in years down the road, knowing that the failure to make hard decisions is how we got into today's mess."
This congress cannot speak for a future congress, thus Grand Bargains are meaningless. The Bush tax cuts still have not ended, as designed by a previous congress.
Greenspan should have made the hard decision in 1998 and not cut the rate to 4.75%. But 1920's booms feel good, so it was 5,000 Nasdaq or bust.
Bush should then have made the hard choice but getting re-elected is more fun than being booted out like his father was. Housing bubble followed.
Obama does not want to make hard choices either. Neither does Bernanke, as was Greenspan before him.
A collapse is the only thing that will force the issue, as that is which they do not have control over.
Nail on the head again, "tangibles" and we have too many making money "flipping algorithms" in the US and not enough manufacturing to where those technological algorithms could be put to good use.
But don't worry, there's a brand new opportunity here with "gamification"...Data Dealer, the game. You know if the government and others don't take this as the absolute slap in the face for their lack of knowledge and how data modeling for profit works, I don't know what it's going to take to wake them up.
Ok so here you go, connect with other data brokers, learn how to break in to their data bases, set up online companies, the buyers will come running...and it's going on kick starter:) This is also as I see it a real good slap in the face for insurers who try to "gamify" everything when it's not a game. It's not fun dealing wiht insurers as they too just want your data.
This company in Austria has gamified the Attack of the Killer Algorithms...sure buy a profile of a disgruntled nurse who is selling all the patient records...the video is well done.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/07/data-selling-game-now-exploits-no...
Again, the FTC and others should really see this as a slap in the face and further goes to show how "Algo Duped" we have become with believing everything that gets stuck out there. More videos about Algo Duping here from folks smarter than me. Already in New York the Data Skeptics group has over 500 members and growing. These are quants and other high level thinking folks too, the ones with the talent that write the models and algorithms. Hope we see more of that in other cities too.
A few weeks ago you could play the Fed game and now you can play the real money maker, Data Dealer:) More on Algo Duping...
http://www.ducknet.net/attack-of-the-killer-algorithms/
"Seth Speaks"!