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"No Deal" - Boehner Says Obama Rejects Proposals, Not Negotiating; Talks At An Impasse

Tyler Durden's picture




 

After a two-day, five hundred point Dow Jones rally on nothing but hope that just because politicians are talking, all shall be well, it was the weekend's turn, when the market is conveniently closed, for true Congressional colors to emerge. Sure enough, moments ago Boehner told GOP lawmakers that Obama has "rejected our deal", and that talks with the president have hit an impasse. The WSJ, whose recent poll in conjunction with NBC found Republican approval rating at an all time low (because if the debt ceiling slams shut, the machinery that funds both the "wealth effect" for the 0.01% and the 60 million on foodstamps and disability will cease: or in other words a bust for the ultra wealthy and poor, if not quite so bad for what's left of the middle class) reports that his comments, in a closed-door meeting with House Republicans, put renewed focus on a plan being developed by Senate Republicans to raise the U.S. debt ceiling and fully reopen the government. As we speculated, Obama, smelling blood, has decided to shut down the GOP on all their demands: "On Saturday, a House GOP aide said Mr. Obama had essentially rejected everything offered by House Republican leaders in their proposal." Which is hardly a negotiation. The question is will the GOP, having pushed the limit so far, decide to back off now, and let Obama take all the spoils?

As also reported previously, house lawmakers portrayed their talks with the White House more negatively than the picture that had emerged on Friday, after Mr. Obama phoned Mr. Boehner to discuss a proposal that House Republicans presented late Thursday. The White House said Mr. Obama had "concerns'' about the plan but that the two sides had agreed to keep talking.

Mr. Boehner told GOP lawmakers he was now waiting for Mr. Obama to re-engage with the House leadership, said Rep. Richard Hudson (R., N.C.). "The president will have to come to the table with something,'' said Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R., Ill.). "All eyes are now on the Senate. The question is what will Senate Republicans do.''

WaPo adds:

House Republicans were told by Speaker John Boehner Saturday morning that negotiations between the House GOP and President Obama have ended, with Obama’s rejection Friday of the House’s latest offer.

 

At a closed door meeting in the basement of the Capitol, Boehner urged members to hold firm, several said, even as Senate Republicans work to negotiate their own proposal to end the impasse.

 

House members expressed anxiety about the Senate talks. House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wisconsin) said House leaders were only briefed on a proposal being circulated by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) on Saturday morning and were opposed to it. He said the reasons for opposition were too many to enumerate.

 

Admitting it’s not optimal, Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) said Saturday that “all eyes are now on the Senate” this morning as the House waits to see how the upper chamber votes on a bill to fund the government.

 

Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho) sounded a frustrated note as he left a GOP conference meeting.

 

“The president rejected our deal,” Labrador said.

 

“It’s all good. It’s now up to the Senate republicans to stand up,” the Idaho republican added.

While in the Senate the prevailing GOP sentiment is one of folding to Obama as well, Darrell Issa moments ago noted that Obama has rejected the Seante GOP offer as well, which he said "contains real reform", instead pushing merely for higher taxes.

So while Obama seems dead set on getting his way or the highway, all the momentum for late last week appears to have stalled, perhaps direcly as a result of the massive ramp in the stock market which once again may have come too early, taking away all the pressure from the negotiation, which now appears set to repeat the tried and true pattern of yet another market plunge whose only goal is to force the negotiators to sign in the 11th hour.

And speaking of 11th hour, it may just be revisited, since as Bloomberg reported, after today there are no votes scheduled until 6:30 pm on Monday, roughly two days before the first X-Date.

More from Bloomberg:

  • Rep. Bill Flores, R-Texas, says Obama is “not talking to us” and “is trying to talk to the Senate Republicans
  • Rep. Randy Hultgren, R-Ill., says he knows of no plans by leadership to seek a vote on increasing debt ceiling for six weeks
  • Rep. John Fleming, R-La., says “we’re getting a bait and switch strategy from the White House;” next step is for House members to keep passing clean piecemeal bills to open govt
  • After today, House isn’t planning any votes until Monday around 6:30pm, says Rep. Trey Radel, R-Fla.

In short: anyone who thought the debt ceiling tragicomedy was over, is very much mistaken. And just to make sure of that, here is Harry Reid:

 

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Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:40 | 4047747 11b40
11b40's picture

You might want to read the polls again.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:46 | 4047772 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

I just did:

http://patdollard.com/2013/10/ted-cruz-tears-obamas-approval-down-to-all-time-low-of-37/

Does the phrase "all time low" ring a bell?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:11 | 4048405 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

And so what? I don't approve of the Republican party and I'm most certainly on the right end of the politcal spectrum- I just see no point in supporting a party who is no different from those they supposedly oppose. How many of those how approve of Repubs less now do so because they are sick to death of them being gutless weasels? There is really no way to say.

Another things lacking in polling data is where those polled reside- in a poll that samples heavily in urban areas, New York, California, etc. no doubt Team Elephant gets less approval- but what difference does it make? They aren't going to win there anyhow so who cares?

 

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:58 | 4047805 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

That is another prong of the strategy.

Cause something he can define as a "revolt" and Presto! EOs and NDAA for everyone!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:29 | 4047888 chubbar
chubbar's picture

He closed it for vets but opened it for illegal aliens protesting for amnesty. Could you ever have imagined that something that obscene would happen? The fucking MSM is completely silent on that outrage.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:11 | 4047996 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Repeat what follows as needed until the truth finally sinks in...

The role of the MSM is not to report the news. The role of the MSM is to shape public opinion as dictated by TPTB...

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:03 | 4048120 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

There is no TPTB organization with centralized or even decentralized decision making capabilities. The press, like the IRS people who automatically know to go after constitutionalists without any direct orders, are true believers in progressivism,Utopianism, whatever you like to call it.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:31 | 4047703 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

So here's a thought too, Bammer needs to keep this drama up longer to mask the total disaster Obamacare has been on the roll out so far?

They think they can "fix it" if they get more time (and money I'm sure)!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:34 | 4047715 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

you have to wonder what Obama plans to gain from causing a crisis.

Get ahold of yourself, McMolotov!!  It's what TPTB have to gain from their telling Obama to cause a crisis.  The gig is up.  They're ready for Great Depression 2.0.  It's most likely been in the master plan since the last one. But this time the goal is ultimate power.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:37 | 4047730 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I know, he's a puppet for powers greater than himself. But I haven't hated a president this much since George W. Bush was in office!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:41 | 4047744 jomama
jomama's picture

oops.  that comment will make your upvoters writhe with confusion

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:39 | 4047745 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

I have to agree on that one.  At least W could make you laugh, like a puppy who gets stuck in the doggy door.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:43 | 4047756 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

But I haven't hated a president this much since George W. Bush was in office!

That is some funny shit!

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:52 | 4047787 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Conservatives expected Obama to screw them; the problem is they didn't expect to get screwed by Bush.

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:08 | 4048130 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

W was not a conservative, it is just that the mentalities and messaging in the USA have moved so far to the left (the utopian progressivist statist left) that he seemed conservative,relatively.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:43 | 4048368 11b40
11b40's picture

What is a conservative?  I have no idea what the word means anymore.

I always considered myself as largely centerist.  Fiscally conservative, but more libertarian in social outlook.  I was comforable at various times with both parties, but since Bush, I have no trust for any of them, and the various labels seem meaningless to me  Liberals supporting NDAA, and Conservatives wanting to do vaginal probes.  WTF

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 17:09 | 4050957 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Buckley was conservative, if that helps define things a little better. I don't like the term either but people throw it out there. W doesn't qualify. He was a statist.

Tue, 10/22/2013 - 14:52 | 4080295 11b40
11b40's picture

So was Goldwater, and the thought of him approving of vaginal probes is ridiculous.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:32 | 4047900 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

...or is something else going on?

How about TPTB using this as an excuse to pull the trigger on the US?  After all, Obama was put into office for a reason... Perfect moment to let the wobbling edifice collapse and blame it on the stupid party, which of course are just following the script (in the role of "the patsy"). Boener plays his role to the hilt...

What worries the crap out of me is the firing of the two top rank military guys who have been sacked in such a short space of time, the number two guy for "gambling" and the number one guy because of a "lack of confidence" in him... The timing is "curious".

Time to take a vacation outside the U.S. meethinks.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:44 | 4047928 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

This is the end of the two party system...  Enough repuklicans have crossed over.  They really dont even hold the house anymore.  Runyon, Dent (my shithead), and a bunch of others have come out of the closet.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:16 | 4047617 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

Ex Governor, Jessie Ventura says in a Larry King interview this week..."F*ck all of'em in Washington". "If the Government is closed, why are we still paying them Taxes?" Great interview... Ex Governor Jessie steps up and has the guts to denounce the American Political Party system... https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=LhSJgJZspnU

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:32 | 4047708 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

Note: to watch the Jesse video, either cut 'n paste the URL and then take out the space before com, or ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhSJgJZspnU

Tools don't work if you don't know how to use 'em.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:08 | 4047828 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

fonzannon..."History is very clear on where this goes next." 

Jokes aside, history is clear that when a black takes over as chief executive of the government, the worst aspects of human nature will be expressed by that government and encouraged in the population, resulting in collapse. However, Obama isn't the cause of all of our problems, he is the outward manifestation of a long-term internal rot, like seeing bracket fungus on an old tree. 

 

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:01 | 4048205 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Okay Kevorkian, when in the US history did a black take over as a chief exec?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:53 | 4048379 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

Coleman Young in Detroit...Maynard Jackson in Atlanta...Kurt Schmoke in Baltimore...Ernest Morial in New Orleans, etc.. If you can provide an example where electing a black chief executive was the beginning of a cultural renaissance or civic renewal please do.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:15 | 4048420 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Mugabe and Mandela did wonders for Rhodesia and South Africa. If you look at what those places used to be compared to what they are now it's an amazing...errr...uhhh... never mind.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:12 | 4047840 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

Ma'am, what exactly is a tad?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047624 Icewater Enema
Icewater Enema's picture

Exactly, his likely agenda all along. Destroy the GOP (who he assumes gets most of the blame for a catastrophy). And then collapse opens up the doors to all sorts of "emergency action." The vast masses of scared little rodents will cry out for rescue and go along with anything. You would think that a few of the more rational members of the administration would try to avoid this but apparently they are more afraid of Valerie Jarret than they are of the demise of the country.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:15 | 4047652 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Barack Obama is the worst president ever.

And Valerie Jarrett is his prophet.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:50 | 4047779 g'kar
g'kar's picture

He may well become the most powerful dicktator ever.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:54 | 4047791 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, much to our woe...

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:57 | 4047799 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes, DCRB, much to our woe. A lot of people will die fighting this.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:45 | 4047936 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

He actually has yet to demonstrate a large force of jack booted thugs... Not sure how rotten the US military has become, he may have it...  but then again he may not...

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:39 | 4048079 g'kar
g'kar's picture

You haven't been paying attention to the DHS weapons, bullet and armored vehicle purchases.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:09 | 4048213 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Barack Obama is the worst president ever.

And Valerie Jarrett is his prophet.

 

DoChen, addendum for ya, PROFIT.(Hehehehehehe)

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:09 | 4047988 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

The vast masses of scared little rodents will cry out for rescue and go along with anything

Bullshit. The "guns, God, and coffee" crowd will not go along with an Obama dictatorship. You will see counties and states seceding from the Union. If you poll the entire country, it may be true that more than 50% would go along with Dictator-for-life Obama, but when you look at things at the state level that is definitely not true.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:18 | 4048321 Icewater Enema
Icewater Enema's picture

Elvis,

I would hope that you are right. Parts would resist. But other large segments like the Free Shit Army, both  inner city and rural, and helpless white suburbanites would probably go along. I live among these people. They don't seem to be too aware of what is happeing or are at least in denial about it, since the shutdown doesn't really affect them. But if their 401K takes another 25% dump, then they will start to panic.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047625 Boeing Boy
Boeing Boy's picture

Who cares, one thing is for certain, gold takes another leg down on monday morning.

 

USA USA USA...

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:11 | 4047642 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"The idea that Obama wants collapse is becoming more plausible."

Probably something much more sinister: Use the NDAA to seize control and become dictator. Barry can use the default to declare the US in a state of disaster and would essential have complete control of everything. First to go is the GOP by arresting them for treason or some other trumped up charges for forcing the US into default.

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:40 | 4047742 optimator
optimator's picture

Obama will need the equivilant of an enabling act to straighten everything out.  It worked for Hitler.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:11 | 4048000 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Oh God, another "Obama as Hitler" analogy. Hitler was a master orator and propagandist. He could get people to believe what he was saying no matter how evil or ridiculous it was. Obama is an empty suit. Even most rank-and-file Democrats don't believe his bullshit (look at his appeal to bomb Syria for an example). 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:17 | 4048149 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Hmm. In the Twenties and thirties the mass communication technology was different. One to many, with government figures having the podium. Today Obama has a lot of competition on the airwaves. But that doesnt make his aims and methods different. They are just less effective. Now in an "emergency" measures could be taken to claw back share of voice. Obama wants that badly.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:37 | 4047735 jomama
jomama's picture

as if that puppet had any say in the matter.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:50 | 4047778 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

He's a Marxist and wants one party rule. This collapse would get him there faster than anyone is willing to admit and people better wake up to this very evil intentioned man.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:56 | 4047795 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

+100!!!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:21 | 4048155 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

He is a third worldist by dint of being anti-western. Marxism is just a way of getting and keeping power, to the greater end of taking down the western world. If he was a Marxist, would he be a big booster of Islamic fundamentalists? No. He likes them because the are against the sworn enemy, the west.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:37 | 4048355 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Well, plus the fact that he's actually a Muslim.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:00 | 4047809 km4
km4's picture
Free vibrators for non-essential federal employees

http://boingboing.net/2013/10/11/free-vibrators-for-non-essenti.html

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:30 | 4047896 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

The idea that Obama enjoys the prospects of becoming Emperor Barrackus GluteUS Maximumus are improving.

Look for him resorting to the IEEPA to become a defacto dictator. If you don't know about IEEPA, you need to learn about it. Fast.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:49 | 4047943 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Being a gay, muslim communist, malignant narcissist, and pedophile are excellent qualities found in any Dicktatster!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:02 | 4047980 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Cloward-Piven strategy.  DUUUUUUUHHHHH!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:02 | 4048117 stant
stant's picture

thats how martin armstrong sees it

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:22 | 4048231 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Nah, he doesn't want disaster. Fact is, the pubs have nothing to bargain with. Pubs cannot beat back recall votes if we default.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 10:59 | 4047595 Everyman
Everyman's picture

butt, butt, butt, we went up over 400+ points on the Dow Jones NON Industrials on the "HOPE" and "PROMISE" of a deal!!!!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:11 | 4047632 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

Well then we must go up another 200 at least on Monday, because, you know, the CNBC dudes said that the economy has never been better and all that shit. Buy buy buy.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:14 | 4047643 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Bammer and the Boyz have made it clear, this is what they will take:
(And they are not negotiating)

-1 year increase in debt ceiling (approx 1 trillion+)

- full funding of the .gov with clean CR that funds Obamacare and all entitlements.

- reopen the .gov for all workers with back pay.

See you next October before House Elections 2014

The free shit army now outnumbers working taxpayers 2-1 before we add the 20-30 million illegals to the citizenship rolls in 2014, it's your call Boner?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:57 | 4047800 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Boehner should say he is willing to resign over this as he sees the unwillingness of Obama to negotiate as an act of a dictator.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:31 | 4047898 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

It wasnt hope or promise. It was the headline which contained the words hope and promise which caused the algos to go ape shit.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:02 | 4047599 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Republicans should call Obama's bluff. If he want default, let him have it. Besides, the sequester was supposed to be the end of the world, and it turned out to be the only successful policy in the Obama administration.   :)

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:10 | 4047636 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

In time history will record that if the system goes off the rails, that will be when President Barack Obama (D) was at the helm.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:24 | 4047686 Arbysauce
Arbysauce's picture

But he'll have glory in hell. Compensation enough.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:36 | 4047702 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Maybe he will be a Hell's equivalent of an Archangel.  One of the Devil's own 666!  A good question for ZH's own "Pure Evil"...  


:)

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:55 | 4047793 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Lucifer:

"Welcome, my Son. Come, rule at my right hand."

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:15 | 4047646 PacOps
PacOps's picture

Capt. Bart Mancuso: The hard part about playing chicken is knowin' when to flinch.

 

The problem in DC is that they are mostly a bunch of elected amateurs - roosters on the barnyard manure pile crowing away and they don't know their collective asses from a hot rock.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:40 | 4047746 g'kar
g'kar's picture

GOP House should just go home until the President and the Senate puts together a budget detailing all expenditures then negotiate from there while having the treasury pay the interest on the national debt. Wouldn't that be refreshing. No budget, no deals. No more continuing resolutions.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:17 | 4048016 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Problem with that is that pieces of toilet paper we wipe our asses with says all spending bill MUST originate in the house.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:18 | 4048070 g'kar
g'kar's picture

Yes, but the President submits his budget to the Congress.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:09 | 4048217 DosZap
DosZap's picture

A Mormon for President?  Not gonna happen.

Why not???, we got a Mooslim didn't we?.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:02 | 4047601 Defenestratus
Defenestratus's picture

I'm stocking up on ammo today.

This will be fun.

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:14 | 4047850 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Every single member of my former guard unit at this moment are stocking up on 'various items.' I've had 3 calls this week about firewood, spare tires and such.

The chatter on the military situation is not good.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 21:15 | 4049130 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

It's coming better to get it started.  The longer this goes on the worse it gets.

Everyone will soon have pick their sides. Fuck being in NY, DC or LA... any of the progressive shit holes.  Not sayin' the other major Cities will be a 'bed of roses' but at least you have a better chance of keeping the FSA at bay and to get tooled up for the inevitable.

Livin' on a prayer people.

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:02 | 4047602 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

That should make Gold go over $1500 ........Oh no wait....no deal, gold goes down....deal is happening , gold goes down. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:10 | 4047637 blindman
blindman's picture

that is it sea smoke and mirrors! it is all smoke
and mirrors and what gets stolen and transferred,
what price fixing might take place,
behind the scenes is none of anyone's business.
"..pay no attention to that man behind the curtain,
the (great oz) wizard has spoken." oz

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:00 | 4047603 Sleepless Knight
Sleepless Knight's picture

Just Bring it. Its gonna happen anyway - the sooner the better.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:04 | 4047606 Chief Falling Knife
Chief Falling Knife's picture

So the R's essentially offered him everything and more for very little in return, and Barry rejected it. 

Sure glad the Dow was up 500+ points the last 2 days on a rumor.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:02 | 4047608 wally_12
wally_12's picture

Get ready for a Constitutional crisis as he intends to invoke the 14h Amendment to overide Congress

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:51 | 4047788 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Bigger.

Get ready for Emergency Powers.

One-Man rule by fiat.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:29 | 4047890 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

And in the darkness, bind them.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:05 | 4047610 20-20 Hindsight
20-20 Hindsight's picture

 Rinse and repeat... Groundhog Day.  

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:05 | 4047612 involuntarilybirthed
involuntarilybirthed's picture

If our current course is not sustainable then surey we are now headed faster to what not sustainable is.  

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:12 | 4047613 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I found the poll details suspect.

Democrats in the sample were 11% more than GOP in the sample.  Romney lost to Obama by less than 4%.  Now while some polls try to adhere samples to the turnout model of the last election, other polls allow self selection (as this one did) and large departures in sample profile from the last election can happen.

Also, there were 20% government workers in that sample, the size of which was only 800.  Truth is 16% of workforce so less than 10% of voters.

The GOP may have had time to examine that poll's internals and dismiss it. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:43 | 4047757 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

But the actual numbers are NOT the thing - it's the public perception and acceptance of the feeling of overwhelming blame for the GOP that is important.  That feeling is in the propoganda being put out by the MSM and a lot of the so-called liberal web press.

That public emotional response should not be dismissed by an intelligent GOP.

Oops, tried rational thought - of course they can dismiss a poll.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:49 | 4047773 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I'd say no.  There are not many marginal seats.  Most are concretely held.  The 3.7% Romney loss is pretty definitive on this.  If anything, the hardest core of the right wing didn't turn out for him.

If the members are polling their own districts, they may not fold.  Only the handful of marginal seats will make very loud sounds in the media about folding, but most are in seats not at risk and have no reason to fold.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:49 | 4047782 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I would bet a genuine poll would show he has only about 25% approval.

Remove African-Americans, you're at 15%, IMO.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:04 | 4047614 RacerX
RacerX's picture

Funny how O's "negotiations" are nothing more than: "Give me all of what I want or no deal".

What a jackhole.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:12 | 4048005 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The lightbringer wants to watch the western world burn.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047619 Jim B
Jim B's picture

The Rs are folding like a cheap suit, so the child president will push them to the limit and beyond.  He knows they will cave!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:09 | 4047633 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Mens Warehouse has a special on.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:53 | 4048187 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

George the scumbag lib, no thanks no more business done with George after 2008... Plenty of places to buy suits, my money goes where my values are respected.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047620 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Republi-cavers.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:09 | 4047623 Arbysauce
Arbysauce's picture

Leave the shutdown in place = shrink the fedgov of 'nonessentials' = a good thing. Let the vets march on the capitol and the stupid National Park Service farce continue for all to see. Leave debt cap as is = balanced budget = a good thing.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 18:14 | 4048608 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

national park can be a national park.  park.  open, free space.  if i'm stupid enough to let a grizzlie bear attack me, then so be it.  300MM+ people, it's called darwin awards.  no more helicopters to bail out stupid people.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047627 NDXTrader
NDXTrader's picture

No surprise here. This is Obama's gambit to destroy the tea party. He now has the blame squarely on them through his lackeys in the media

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047628 LawyerScum
LawyerScum's picture

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047629 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

When you think about it, wouldn't a default of the global currency be the perfect impetus for worldwide marshall law, the big leap for the NWO creeps?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:16 | 4047655 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Shame about the NSA data center not being online in time for that, sure it was vital to their plans.

Who designed that POS anyway,Tesla motors, and Solyndra  ?

On the birghter side those inbred self acclaimed elites fuck up  just like J6P.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:20 | 4048020 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

falling for the fake stories about problems are we?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:20 | 4048023 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

LOL U actually BELIEVE what a spy agency, especially one as sinister as the NSA, says?!

Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 21:20 | 4049139 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

The force is strong in that one....

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:10 | 4047631 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Obama wants a collapse so he can get his 3rd 4th and 5th term.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:43 | 4047760 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Both posters are right!

The goal people refuse to understand is "fundamental change."

It means abrogation of the Constitution, strongman rule and negation of the bicameral congress.

To wit:

Hard push for Debt.

Hard push for Surveillance.

Hard push for Martial Law (Boston rollout, beta test).

Disarmament of US citizens.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:57 | 4048195 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

+1000  Cloward-Piven implemented and successful with the help of the MSM who should bear the brunt of our displeasure.  If they advertise on the MSM do no business with them, force the MSM to take direct Gov money to stay afloat.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 21:33 | 4049176 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Agreed, they have completed their plans and now the final showdown can commence.

Of course, like all past battles, these plans will be shown the dustbin once the first shot is fired.

Good luck with that, TPTB, and let's not forget the 'fellow travellers'.  Remember, as you cunts read this, that there are only so many seats on the Learjets or the bunkers for that matter.  Good luck saving your families or yourself for that matter. Gonna be some angry fuckers huntin' you down.

Interesting to see of the likes of Chris Matthews gets to an offshore combat ship to continue to broadcast hope and change?

Yugoslavia, 'merican style, here we come.

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:10 | 4047635 20834A
20834A's picture

The Republicans cave, Obama has wrested complete control over both houses and rules as king. The Republicans stand firm, we enter a financial crisis which Executive Orders allow Obama to take complete control over the country, disband Congress, and rule like a king.

We are screwed.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:35 | 4047902 foxmuldar
foxmuldar's picture

 Obama to take complete control over the country, disband Congress, and rule like a king.

Yep, its what I've been saying since this Muslim took control. He wants to rule his own banana republic. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:20 | 4048022 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Geez, the paranoia level among ZH posters this morning has been turned to 11.

Here's what's really going to happen: Republicans fold, popular opinion turns towards Obama and the Democrats. Economic crisis strikes the U.S. in 2Q or 3Q 2014. Democrats get blamed (because they "won" the debate in October 2013). That added to the clusterfuck that will be Obamacare and the Democrats get crushed in the 2014 mid-term electons. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:12 | 4047639 TheBoyPlunger
TheBoyPlunger's picture

Let's be honest here, this is just going to be another ruse to get people shorting on Monday only to get squeezed again on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

Just keep buying those momo internet stocks with no earnings "until your hands bleed," because this time it's different.... right?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:13 | 4047641 blindman
blindman's picture

the governments only hope is that u.n. chemical team
and vlad putin!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:14 | 4047644 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

How many Muppets bought the market Friday at its high?

Monday morn is going to be painfull

 

Ouch!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:48 | 4047948 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

open half a percent down.  The algos have shown they can do the lifting.....

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:13 | 4047650 thismarketisrigged
thismarketisrigged's picture

how amazing is is that all of us zerohedgers knew exactly what would happen, yet wall st is so fucking clueless?

 

dont worry, tomm when the futures market opens, we will here how they have decided to talk again so the dow can rally 200 points again.

 

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:39 | 4047731 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

How do u know wall street was clueless? I personally saw over 1200 contracts get bought on UVXY oct 40 calls expiring next friday. All bought witjin 10 minutes. I dont think that wasyou or I was it?

The banksters had many meetings with Bama. You think they were competing to offer him a new line of credit for his wifes new garden?

It is all planned with dates and goals.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:53 | 4048193 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Did you also see how many contracts of all other types were sold (or bought)?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:17 | 4047658 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I LOVE Obama more every day he stands firm and brings us closer to the reckoning!

Obama - keep the illusion alive as long as you can; this is the best movie I've watched in a long time! I hope an Oscar is waiting for you down the line, you can put it on the shelf next to your Nobel Peace Prize!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:21 | 4047672 The Persistent ...
The Persistent Vegetable's picture

Mo one has anyone bent over a barrel. both sides on this are right now hunkered down studying their script for the next act in this comical farce.

It will end on Wednesday or Thursday with Boner and Obama agreeing that Social Security and Medicare have got to be cut, while corporate welfare will be allowed to run rampant.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:23 | 4047679 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

As far as I am concerned, this is a life or death struggle, because real issue is....

$17 trillion dollar and growing debt driven by entitlement caused structural deficit is why the young people of this country want this government closed until they address a Balance Budget. Young people understand that a $20 trillion debt at 10% interest is an INTEREST PAYMENT of $2 trillion. If we keep this deficit spending up, soon all tax revenues will be consumed by INTEREST PAYMENTS. What a great country that will be!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:32 | 4047706 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Debt and deficits, that's right.  The big enchilada.

+ 17 trillion

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:23 | 4047682 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture

Dog barks at pony.  Pony kicks at dog.  Dog wears tutu.  Pony runs around ring.  The crowd loves it.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:50 | 4047785 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

And don't forget the subsidized beer, pretzels, and hot dogs.

And the crowd goes absolutely wild.

until the bread and circus runs out.

What then?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:43 | 4047931 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

Sathington Willougby

+++++

I had always wondered about The Dog and Pony Show.  I just sent your explanation off to 50 people.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:25 | 4047683 CerpherJoe
CerpherJoe's picture

"The question is will the GOP, having pushed the country so far, decide to back off now, and let Obama take all the spoils?"

 

Indeed that is the question. But, just so you know:

If they cave: they lose 2014

If they fight: they win 2014

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:27 | 4047684 reader2010
reader2010's picture

“At the end of a society’s historical enterprise to no longer recognize that it has any but a utilitarian function, and given the individual’s anxiety faced with the concentration-camp form of the social link whose appearance seems to crown this effort, existentialism can be judged on the basis of the justifications it provides for the subjective impasses that do, indeed, result therefrom: a freedom that is never so authentically affirmed as when it is within the walls of a prison; a demand for commitment that expresses the inability of pure consciousness to overcome any situation; a voyeuristic-sadistic idealization of sexual relationships; a personality that achieves self-realization only in suicide; and a consciousness of the other that can only be satisfied by Hegelian murder."

— Jacques Lacan, and Bruce Fink (Translator). The Mirror Stage as Formative of the I Function. 1949.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:55 | 4047789 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I- Dysfunction and narcissistic stockolm syndrome. Hegelian murder of "the thing" meets Nietzschean Ubermench gone soggy in uncontrollable angst and : "Hence the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire...

Sartre, who thought like Lacan, was a guy who couldn't choose between his mistresses and his wife, life companion who had a lovely butt she gave to her lover in existential distress, which spawned "the second sex".

Despondency is no cure to getting stuck in a hole; especially when you build it yourself.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:26 | 4047689 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Seems to me that if the dollar is crashed what pray tell will most likely happen to other countries currencies?? To my thinking, they will like wise take a dump--the dollar is still the standard by which they are gaged.

This would present us with the all time circle jerk--and very messy.            Milestones

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:58 | 4047802 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

Seems to me what would happen is utter chaos, with the temporary resolution that a black market would almost immediately arise in commerce and city streets with daily changes in exchange rates for currency. In this case, paper will not prosper against coinage.

No idea of what the banks would do except to close.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:27 | 4047690 TrustbutVerify
TrustbutVerify's picture

LOL...I thought it was "all the Republicans fault."  What a laugh.  Obama remains intractable - "I'm won't negotiate."  He presses his foot to the floor as we head toward the debt cliff.  Surely, the few economic rationalists that are Democrats, frail and neutered as they have become, are aghast as they realize the path we are on.  After the debacle hits the government as "the one-and-only solution to our problems" will be paraded out for us.  

SPENDING was the weapon used for these past decades to get us into this situation - along with the American's citizens inability to resist the easy money promises that were, the entire time, too good to be true. 

For decades those that wanted to control promises and spending were demonized.  Its still happening today.  

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:36 | 4047729 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Bath House is intractable ONLY because he wants Absolute Power through the imposition of the EOs he has had written for him enabling him to declare a national emergency. These EOs would not have been written if they were not meant to be used.

The Republic is headed for a cliff. It remains to be seen if Bath House will seize power or be removed from office via a revolt by some faction of government having the authority to remove not only him, but the hidden structure which empowers him.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 21:55 | 4049220 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

"The Republic is headed for a cliff. It remains to be seen if Bath House will seize power or be removed from office via a revolt by some faction of government having the authority to remove not only him, but the hidden structure which empowers him."

I doubt that would happen initially.  Those with such 'authority' to remove the treasonous scum would be eliminated quickly unless they go underground real fast.  Some would stay inside and plot from within. Either way, America is a polarised nation, controlling 350 million across such a vast country even with the full backing of the military, DHS et. al. and the localised police forces would be an incredible feat.

The Chinese ensure that internal movement is tracked and no one is armed.  To ensure loyalty and ruthless enforcement of any spark of resistance they have the option of using units drawn from different ethnicities / cultures to enforce others (Mongol units used in Tiananmen square).  I do not see that the USSA internal security apparatus is built up this way. Perhaps they have other things in mind?  Everyone has read the same books? False flag / distraction would seem the most likely option.

Time will tell... interesting times.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:50 | 4047704 Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

Obama is going for total humiliation of Boehner, and he will probably get it.  Boehner should tell Obama to F-off, and that he is going to put Ted Cruz in charge of the negotiation from here on out.  Now that would be funny.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:54 | 4047792 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Thats why Ryan is negotiating. He is running for speakership. This is a an opportunity to nail Bohener. Can't say I feel sorry for him. I hope doesn't slip an fall on his tears on the way out.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:23 | 4048028 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

thats funny, Ryan is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyyyyyyyyyyyyy to the left of Boner.....  he and Barry would be in bed so fast with Michelle with a strap on it wouldnt be funny

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:31 | 4047712 involuntarilybirthed
involuntarilybirthed's picture

Obama is under select pressure to move his people toward the mountain top.   His time is running out and any austerity that cuts funds to his/their agenda(s) is a set back.  He needs moar and will suffer whomever/whatever to get it.  That caucus has been deafening quiet?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:31 | 4047714 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

These guys have to stand firm.

The ACA is the center piece of the "fundamental change" of the US into a Socialist, one-party authoritarian government.

The ACA is NOT and never was about 'healthcare.' It is an omnibus of rules and regulations designed to implement a Socialist, Stasi-State Regime which completely ignores the US Constitution.

THAT is why Bath House will not negotiate. If the ACA falls, the Socialist Dictatorship he was ordered to implement will suffer an almost insurmountable setback.

The reason the software does not work is either because it was designed to fail and force a fast-track to more control, or it was sabotaged by anti-regime forces.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:38 | 4047737 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

ACA is indeed about a big power grab.   It has already failed!  Something like 1% have been able to get onto an "Exchange", for what that's worth.  And they haven't started paying yet...

So, the next step is "Single Payer".  Socialism.

Unless the R-Team wakes up and spikes this turkey Obamacare once and for all.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:46 | 4047769 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Always side with your posts, but it has not failed-yet.

If the Republicans fail, their party is finished.

Chaos is the result.

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:16 | 4047854 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's why I am Going Galt.  (and 1 year dry)  Gold & guns sums up my new attitude recently.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:40 | 4047919 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Been off hootch for almost 14 years.

Sober is good.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:28 | 4048048 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

There's one guy who not afraid to look at his Friday night posts on Sat morning!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:16 | 4048223 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Six years here.  Part of being awake and aware is not buying into medicated befuddlement of any kind.  If you are over age twenty-five and you get drunk every night then you are exact;y where they want you.  Just sayin'

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:46 | 4048370 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Been sober since 12/22/82, coming up on 31years...

Holy Cow, it blows my mind just to think about it.

DaddyO

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:19 | 4048436 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Nice Christmas gift...

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:24 | 4048034 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

no a two class one party socialist state is the result.  Too many Iphones and playstations for their to be chaos

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:31 | 4048056 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Look, if they cave to Obama it would not be the end of the Republican party. You have to realize that congressional elections are local elections. The Tea Party Republicans can go back to their districts and claim that they "fought the good fight" but were betrayed in the end. If they are sent back to D.C. they will continue the fight. That message will sell. Moderate Republicans can go back to their districts and say that they restrained government spending with the deal they made with Obama (The CR's being discussed would reduce the growth of spending). That message will probably sell too. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:03 | 4048202 DosZap
DosZap's picture

ACA is indeed about a big power grab.   It has already failed!  Something like 1% have been able to get onto an "Exchange", for what that's worth.  And they haven't started paying yet...

DoChen,It WAS designed to fail from day UNO,Reid said it IN A TV appearance that they designed it to do JUST that,EPIC fail.

Just like everything this Admin has done.

 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:11 | 4047836 22winmag
22winmag's picture

If Obama was president of Egypt, the military would have already thrown him in the slammer. In this utterly lawless landscape, some brave souls in uniform need to step up with the handcuffs and do the right thing.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 18:29 | 4048656 noless
noless's picture

Point: through "legal" and "constitutional" application of gender(sex) and racially discriminatory taxation.

I wonder if i get a "sex change" (since apparently it no longer requires physical alteration to be recognized as your preferred gender legally(at least in California)), if i can get cheaper "voluntary" health insurance rates?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:33 | 4047719 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Who else is sick and farking tired of this dog and pony show?

What we see here is a bunch of puppets play acting their parts in the great plan to kill America. Anyone that thinks these puppets actually have anything to do with the coming default and crash so they can implement martial law is just stupid. The coming actions are all bought and paid for and planned years in advance by the bankster puppet masters that hold the strings on these things called obama, and boner. Stop watching the hands and instead, watch the illusionists! Track them so when the chinga hits the rotating device, EVERYBODY knows where they are so they can be rounded up and hung at the nearest liberty tree.

The whole shit-show is just putrid and disgusting. It makes one who is even partially conscious sick, just plain old ugly sick. Yuck! What is sad, is this slow train ride that is headed off the cliff is all planned to bring on the crash and martial law and the end of free America. After that happens, all hell will break loose and it will be open season on these banksters that have caused all this mayhem to come about. There is no reason to report on the stupid antics of these puppets, just bring on the crash and lets get jiggity in the cleansing of our country. These puppets have got to go back to hell where they came from. ALL OF THEM!!!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:33 | 4047720 optimator
optimator's picture

Wife wants to increase credit limit on credit card continuing to pay interest on balance only.

Hubby wants to keep credit limit continuing to pay interest on balance only.

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