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As BitCoin Touches $400 The Senate Starts Seeking Answers... As Does The Fed
Moments ago BitCoin hit $395, and will likely cross $400 in the immediate future (the chart looks a little less scary in log scale).
So as more and more pile into the electronic currency, some due to ideological reasons, some simply to chase momentum, some out of disappointment with the manipulated gold price looking to park their savings in an alternative, non-fiat based currency, which a year ago traded 40 times lower, the attention of the government is finally starting to shift to what has been the best performing asset class in the past year, outperforming even the infamous Caracas stock market.
Which means one thing: Congressional hearings.
The U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs will meet on Nov. 18 “to explore potential promises and risks related to virtual currency for the federal government and society at large,” it said in a statement today.
The hearing, titled “Beyond Silk Road: Potential Risks, Threats, and Promises of Virtual Currencies,” will invite witnesses to testify about the challenges facing law enforcement and regulatory agencies, and include views from “non-governmental entities who can discuss the promises of virtual currency for the American and global economies.”
“Bitcoin is obviously getting a lot of attention from the federal
government on the regulatory side,” Nicholas Colas, an analyst at ConvergEx Group, said in an interview. “Given the involvement of the currency in illegal activities, that is entirely warranted. I expect these hearings to be largely informational, which is good for Bitcoin.”
“The architecture of the system is elegant from a computer-science perspective, but hard for a non-tech person to understand,” Colas said. “Getting industry professionals to close this gap will be very helpful.”
Or not. Because the only thing the government does when its interest is piqued by something, anything, especially things that have to be looked in log-scale, is to promptly regulate it and then tax it, not necessarily in that order. Just how it will achieve this with Bitcoin remains unclear but one thing is certain: it will try.
Especially, now that even the Fed is looking at BitCoin when a few days ago the Chicago Fed issued 'Bitcoin: A primer" in which the Fed states quite simply:
So far, the uses of bitcoin as a medium of exchange appear limited, particularly if one excludes illegal activities. It has been used as a means to transfer funds outside of traditional and regulated channels and, presumably, as a speculative investment opportunity. People bet on bitcoin because it may develop into a full-fledged currency. Some of bitcoin’s features make it less convenient than existing currencies and payment systems, particularly for those who have no strong desire to avoid them in the first place. Nor does it truly embody what Hayek and others in the “Austrian School of Economics” proposed. Should bitcoin become widely accepted, it is unlikely that it will remain free of government intervention, if only because the governance of the bitcoin code and network is opaque and vulnerable.
Finally, while the Fed may be late to the game, the ECB has already made its feelings on BitCoin well-known long ago: recall from over a year ago: "The ECB Explains What A Ponzi Scheme Is; Awkward Silence Follows" in which the European central banks didn't mince its words: BitCoin is nothing but a ponzi scheme to the central bank tasked with preserving the viability of an entire insolvent continent, and a a currency which unlike BitCoin would never survive absent regulatory intervention.
So while the electronic currency is soaring exponentially as it goes through its appreciation golden age, will the one thing that can finally end the dream of BitCoin holders arrive soon: when the government, and existing monetary authorities, start taking it seriously.
Full Chicago Fed paper on BitCoin
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As far as I'm concerned trafficking drugs and weapons is perfectly moral - it is everyones right to be armed, and if they want to put crap in their bodies, well - it is their body after all.
In other words, BTC facilitates freedom - and of course the whiners who are scared of the very idea of freedom will throw up their hands and scream 'oh noes - people can't be trusted with freedom!'
Trafficking people is the only thing on your list that I have a problem with, and regardless of the currency - slavery is always immoral - unless of course the govt is doing it, then its called tax.
time to getbitcoins ??
not really, but i doesn't hurt to have some accounts open ready to buy!
I am telling you guys, LITECOIN LITECOIN LITECOIN.
BTC is going to get monkeyhammered by the Fed. Diversify your digital portfolios. I imagine that dropping 1 or two BTC (each) into LTC, PPC and NMC.
As soon as someone somewhere and get an active exchange going for the other three, it will be a monster ROI.
Diversify, diversify, diversify.
I know how to buy bitcoin. My neighbor and I can't figure out where to buy litecoin. Can you point me in the right direction?
Btc-e.com
Who the fuck would down arrow this?
BitCoin is to Gold as LiteCoin is to silver. Its base is 4x as big at BTC so it will always be worth less, but on the growth chart, it has yet to go as parabolic as BTC. Sure, if you held $500 worth of LTC on Jan. 1 of this year, and hadn't sold you'd be at $30k today, but the returns on LTC and BTC go up and down together.
The beauty of LTC is, it is still profitable to mine without having to rent time on a super computer. There are plenty of people that were making $11/day with a $4k investment AFTER electricity. That was 7 months ago when it was $2/LTC.
I am telling you guys, diversify your crypto-currencies. BTC is getting all the attention right now, but the LTC is a buy and hold type of deal ATM.
if you mean btc to gold and ltc to silver as in no one cares about ltc and silver then you are correct
They'll survive if they're meant to. Dilute! Dilute! Dilute!
What they cannot regulate they will make illegal,and best get your $$$$$$ of the table while you still can.
No way Dracula allows this to live.
Free Bernard Von Nothaus!
whipped dog.
People misunderstand the utility of Bitcoin.
Have you ever spoken to a Chinese investor trying to get funds out of China? You need approvals up the ying yang, son only those well-connected with the Communist Party get prompt approvals.
The most recent trick was:
Fly to Macau, where Chinese can bring in their Yuan freely
Go to Stevie Wynn's casino, exchange Yuan for chips, fly to Nevada with said chips, exchange for USD.
You can immediately see that Bitcoin is infinitely easier, and there are another 160 countries that will let you transact in Bitcoin if the US shuts it down.
Remember, the Chinese wanted Paypal for a domestic payments system, but didnt want to ship 3.5% back to the US as a commission. The Chinese requested the code, Paypal wasn't cooperative.
Since then, China has been looking for a payments system with a lower transaction fee than Paypal.
Enter Bitcoin, where many transactions are still free of fees.
So does anyone still wonder why Bitcoin China has the top volume?
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
Look at the trades. People are buying .01 BTC for $35.
BTC will easily go to thousands of dollars before this stops.
I am off to downtown Vancouver to buy more BTC at the ATM. Lineups all week. That used to be a quiet coffee shop, now you can't get a seat anywhere.
I like the Steve Wynn option.
Reminds me of the Steve Martin routine about "Fred's Bank"...only with an infected buttplug of a human like Wynn involved.
That is very true. Open your eyes Tyler!!!
So people are all rushing to buy Bitcoin so they can sell them to them to the Chinese for a hefty profit?
That doesn't sound like trying to create a stable alternative currency. That sounds like a get rich quick scheme.
Actually it's money laundering.
When I hear stories like this, I know Bitcoin is toast.
I respectfully disagree.
If you can explain HOW the Fed/US gov't would burn BC, then I might be willing to temper my BC enthusiasm... but thus far I've seen/heard nothing that convinces me that .gov has the knowledge/ability/chops to shut-down BC... not even close. The TPTB have neither the legal grounds nor technical expertise to outlaw BC, thus I expect initial efforts to "ban" BC to be temporary and ineffectual.
If anything, the burgeoning counter-trend toward encryption/privacy bodes VERY well for BC. I do not believe .gov will EVER be ahead of the market regarding anything technical. The geeks have a very real advantage in a borderless world... gov't/politicians are way, way behind with no hope of catching-up, IMO. The genie is out-of-the bottle...
'If you can explain HOW the Fed/US gov't would burn BC...'
You're missing the point of the commenters above you. The MARKET will determine bitcoin's immediate stability, or lack thereof. The market is has created a bubble, plain and simple. And THAT does not point to a stable currency anytime soon.
stabilty will come in time. expecting an embryonic decentralized currency to also be stable (less than 10 yrs from gestation) is perhaps too much to ask at this stage, no?
the fact that BC exists is the critical element, not stability, IMO.
Furthermore, stabilty is relative. Millions of indians & chinese, etc. are well used to wildly fluctating values/FX... bitcoin is a walk-in-the-park for most folks around the world.
Only americans think "stability is necessary" and "gov't will shut it down"... such is the arrogance/short-sighted nature of modern americans, as if world history began with the birth of the $USD. If it isn't sold on The Shopping Network, it mustn't exist... laughable.
dont worry about them.. once the stackers finally ditch their gold and look for bitcoins we'll make them bagholders lulz
Also apparently their idea of a stable currency is to non stop lose 99% of value over time from inception. I'll gladly take some ups and downs with my general uptrend, thanks.
The CIA and NSA could spam the blockchain by passing the same coin back and forth millions of times. Eventually, it would take too long to verify the blockchain upon load-up.
BitCoin also suffers from O(n^2) scaling. Each computer on the network has to do work in proportion to the number of transactions on the blockchain. This is already becoming a problem. BitCoin sites are increasingly moving their transactions off the blockchain. As BitCoin becomes more popular, the transactions will become increasingly centralized in the back servers of a few mega-companies. Sounds familiar.
This being said, I think the current run will continue at least through January (minus a needed short-term correction). The awakened will spend Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's telling family and old friends about how fucked up the system is. Some will understand. It doesn't take many new converts to send the BTC price flying. Seems that whenever TPTB serve up a ridiculous kleptocratic farce, some people wake up and BTC has a nice run. Recent runups were associated with Cyprus and shutdown+Obamacare.
cuz like when gold flew up no one was buying that too since like buying frenzy doesnt move price up or anything...
Little Billy could have ddosed the entire internet back in 1990 but here we are today talking on it. Needless to say scalability issues are easily solved and usually overstated to begin with. As for mega companies taking over BTC, well now you may be on to a legitimate concern. But the difference here is you have to be dumb enough to give them control. There are always going to be stupid people and groups looking to take advantage of them, that's human nature. You don't have to sign up to facebook and give away all your personal info for free, it's a choice you make. Same with bitcoins, you can hold them yourself as was originally intended or you can be a twat and give control to someone else.
@New World Chaos
Sounds like someone isn't up on the protocol specification in Bitcoin. You can't spam transactions, the ones that are passed with zero fees don't have priority, so take whenever to show up - and they burn up BTC to do so.
Anti-spamming was built into the spec from the beginning.
As for scaling, you're really out of your depth. While the block size in the chain can be increased as necessary, there's no indication that the ledger can't handle transaction volume on par with that of Visa or Mastercard.
And your claim about centralization is hilariously out of whack too, the distribution has always had a roughly equal representation between mining pools collectively and individuals.
BTC is all things... sorry you can't label it just one way
@adr's bizarro doppleganger sez:
So people are rushing to buy Gold Coins so they can sell them to others for a hefty profit?
That doesn't sound like trying to create a stable alternative currency. That sounds like a get rich quick scheme.
Actually it's money laundering.
Money laundering = protecting your earnings from the kings highwaymen
Why would that be a Bad Thing?
Very dependent on how you make your money, but we'll let your under-the-table animal insemination clinic slide this time.
So once the DC politicians are accepting donations in BitCoin. It is hands off FEDs otherwise BitCoin will come in all variations around the world. Lets hope the Washington D.C. crooks get to accept BitCoin in donations before the FEDs fuck things up.
You see? We uses their greed against them. No way DC, ZOG, TPB can mount a coherent defense when there's money to be scooped up. BTC edges in for the win... same reason the net can't be taken down even though it is ultimately working to undermine the power structure as it exists, too much money involved, yawning chasm of a downside appeared almost over night. LOL funny how that works.
Oh dear, another bubble.
I can guarantee that the Bankers who run CONgress and the rest of .gov will use all their powers to kill Bitcoin.
Not a wish - I'm all for alternatives to the utterly corrupt FED - just a prediction.
Time for a ten to one bit split?
You can't split Bitcoin.
LEARN!
I think /sarc was implied.
The bitcoin fanatics are so paranoid about defending their scheme that even sarcastic comments are treated like blood libel.
Soon, they'll be hassling people in the streets like Scientologists and JWs.
Im already telling my capos to demand btc as protection money now....
"WTF is a bitcoin?! *ow* Okay, I'll get some by next week, Vinnie!"
(pan to little Italian baker guy running hasher on behalf of "Big Tony" in the back of his shop)
Well, at least they don't have an avatar whose claim to fame is two fingers inserted deep in their pussy circulating the internet.
Like you ever had any credible anti-Bitcoin arguments anyway, you vapid internet narcissist.
God Bless you Bitcoin fans, and I mean that sincerely.
Some of us are trying to give you an inkling of the risk involved, of the "Black Tulip" ramp in Bitcoin value, and that the Fourth Reich and the banker hegemony will use the N.S.A., the D.O.J., the SWAT teams, and the long arm of the I.R.S. to crush it.
I hope not, I hope it flies, I hope it evades all efforts; but I've been around this merry-go-round long enough to trust that alternatives to the coin of the realm will be crushed.
When they get rid of paper and coin currency and force everyone to go completely digital, all transactions will be tracked and have to be approved, and Bitcoin will not be on the "approved" list.
Thanks for that Eb, that is exactly how I feel as well. I am painfully aware my only escape from prying governmental eyes is now barter or cash. I do believe the elimination of cash is the ultimate goal. When this is fully realized, I pray there is a viable alternative to barter. The Death Star approaches.
Miffed;-)
Wicked ice burn, dude. Sure told me.
Her pussy is circulating the entire internet....dayyam...not even Kegels can help with that.
There is a remote possibility that the central banks were planning to transition to virtual currencies before Bitcoin stole the play.
It's going to be interesting to see how they manage to declare ownership of this technology.
The problem for bitcoin concerns its useage in fradulent activity. The online drug markets are the most obvious example, but there is also now the useage of the currnecy to evade the US ban on online gambling; as, per:
http://www.pokerscout.com/AllReviews.aspx?id=1773
In that all bitcoin transactions can be monitored, it will be the exchanges that the DOJ goes after, in much the same way that they went after Neteller et al. They will use the fradulent activity to crack down on Bitcoin and to ultimately stamp their control on it. It will not be allowed to operate outside government control.
I have two words for you
Seychelles
Vanuatu
Fuck you Bernanke
That's 5 words.
:) Well I think the Bitcoin community dont give a damn about US Government. They may decide whatever they want but they have no jusrisdiction over Bitcoin, maybe over US citizens, but to quote Baidu's CEO: "You know, US is just another market, not the world"....
US gov't? Try the BIS...
You really think they are going to let the Bitcoin "community" take over? Its laughable.
?!?!?!?
what in the world can the BIS do to kill bitcoin? With what authority? With what regulatory agency?
the bitcoin community IS taking over - it's happening now... present tense, not future.
again - anyone - please explian HOW the PTB (USG, Fed, BIS, etc.) could possible kill or regulate bitcoin? the global regulatory apparatus to do so DOES NOT EXIST and likely will never exist.
The tide has turned and traditional gov't/regulatory structures are obsolete for all intend and purpose. The world belongs to the geeks now, but it may take another 20 years for the mainstream to figure it out... and americans - with their one-stamp passports - will be that LAST ones to figure out that the dollar is dead... long live bitcoin.
When things are outlawed doesn't the price generally increase dramatically?
exactly, people will go back to in-person cash to bitcoin on the street if they try to rub it out. They want to tax it so they don't want to see it all go underground and out of sight
This is an investment opportunity that we like, an in person exchange: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/order.php?symbol=DEALCO
Disclosure: We are long Dealco.in
That you believe it is up to a small group of self-appointed "Cheesepopes" is laughable.
You actually believe Bitcoin is going to bring the Central Banks down?
Well up until bitcoins creation there was nothing else that could replace their duty of conveniently keeping global accounts. Regardless of how evil you consider them to be they were at least serving a purpose, you had to have an arbitrator of account back in those days and it turns out that an arbitrator with that kind of power usually tends toward an evil bent. Bitcoin simply presents an alternative where there previously was none, it certainly seems to have it's benefits.
You are just making way too much sense on this thread OK?... Don't you need to go and fondle your shiny or something?
:-)
State sanctioned thugs took my shiny.
You obviously have zero concept of the function of central banks. They are not arbiters of account and world markets hummed along before their presence on the global stage (causing panics as they went, but functioning without central arbiters nonetheless).
I admit it is a gross oversimplification but considering their power over commercial banks I tend to lump them together.
Central Banks will bring themselves down. Bitcoin (and other finite decentralized currencies like gold and silver) will be there watching it happen.
Will or has the potential to?
"God, I've been good but I still haven't won the lottery."
"Saul, meet me half-way...buy a ticket!"
apparently, you have no idea what the word "fraudulent" means.
online drug markets, and online gambling, are not in essence fraudulent at all.
from what i understand, most of the dealers on silk road were quite reputable, and delivered high quality merchandise.
" it will be the exchanges that the DOJ goes after"
Illegality has probably helped Bodog. I hear he sends US regulators Christmas presents.
There is no cheaper publicity.
No mention of the $1.2 million worth of bitcoins that were stolen from accounts?
It doesn't matter if the transactions are encrypted, if your wallet and key aren't secure. A whole bunch of people just found that out.
What $100 in value in a day and a half? Sure seems sustainable. It is all momentum chaeres hoping for a greater fool now.
The $795k value of one Bitcoin is based on it becoming a world standard reserve currency. It isn't even a standard currency beyond blow right now.
I'm wondering if the recent massive uptick isn't from Silk Road 2.0 going live. Perhaps the cost of illicit goods went way up requiring more dollars to buy.
Another propaganda writer. Thing is, BTC is only worth about 4B. And yet Media in US and apparently some writers here are scared shit. Unfortunately for US , this is only the beginning of the downfall of the US dollar that the Federal Reserve is killing. You had better get used to the fact that China is 1.2 Billion people India over 1 B billion enven Europe bigger than US and US is 340 m. Accept that US is part of the world not the world itself :):)
I'd argue that the media is not scared shitless by this. In fact it is likely the opposite: they are very actively promoting BitCoins by presenting it in the news in a manner that seems more positive.
This is worrying. A good rule of thumb is that however the American media wants you to feel about something, you should feel the opposite. They herd the people into traps.
is a bunker a trap?
We have the reserve currency, the largest and most technologically advanced military, the largest spy apparatus ever created in all of human history; all at the beck and call of the Bankster Class 24/7/365. You had better get used to the fact that India's billion and China's Billion aren't even speed bumps on the path to total world domination, otherwise known as globalism.......
with all due respect, you seem to have a bit of a naive notion, that the bankster class has some sort of allegiance or connection to the usa.
they could care less about nations, and they know which way the wind is blowing.
their operations are corporate and supra-national, and the writing is on the wall for the demise of the dollar as the world's reserve currency; they will not fight this trend, they will position themselves to gain from it, usa be damned.
You mean "COULDN'T care less".
Think about what you are actually saying.
it's a common expression in the usa; i don't know which country you are in:
http://grammarist.com/usage/could-care-less/
i could care less about sematics, though, you understood what i was saying and the point remains.
I am in the USA as well, and it is simply an idiotic expression, which in point of fact says exactly the OPPOSITE of what you are really trying to say.
If you "could care less", then you are saying that you could care less than you do right now, which means that you DO in fact care, when what you (presumably) are trying to say is that you do not care at all.
Just because something is common does not make it correct or acceptable. Do you routinely use "ain't" for "is not" or "am not"? What about "aks" for "ask", or ekspecially" for "especially"?
It's a sloppy, ignorant and uneducated expression. So perhaps perfect for modern-day USA after all.
you're correct, of course, for some arbitrary definition of "correct".
but language is not set in stone, it's determined by common parlance, which may not be logical at all, much like democracy.
I know it's common today to dismiss the rules of language as unimportant but this is wrong. It promotes laziness and ineffective communication. Every day I drive by a grocery store that installed a neon sign " healthy snacks". I cringe because this appears to be the vernacular of our day but this is,in fact, incorrect. Grammer isn't my strongest talent and I gladly accept correction because I want to improve. Letting everything have a pass ultimately says there are no standards worth respecting.
Miffed;-)
Hey, I guess it's better than buying snacks that are suffering from any number and variety of maladies.
;-)
But seriously, Miffed, you have, as AnAnonymous might say, "bitten the nib of the mattering thing" here. Proper grammar, spelling, pronunciation and punctuation is not just a bugbear of nitpickers, it is PRECISELY about accurate and effective communication! In fact, I take that concept even further than most, which is why I am so bothered not just by bad and lazy grammar, but by bad and lazy pronunciation as well. ALL of that is part of language, and language is nothing if not communication. Once we let standards fall, whether in grammar or pronunciation, we increasingly disable our very ability to effectively communicate with each other.
By the way, it may shock and outrage some of you here, but a good friend of mine, an elementary school teacher in Michigan, has been telling me that for years that it is FORBIDDEN for her and her fellow teachers to correct the pronunciation of any of the words of any of her students --- it is apparently now "judgemental" and "damaging to their self-esteem".
are you guys still harping on this?
my point is, i was within the "rules of language", as you put it; the phrase "could care less" is in the common vernacular.
also, it's "grammar" not "grammer", haha.
Yes, and by the way, you forgot to capitalize the first words in each of your sentences, as well as the first person pronoun "I".
You're welcome.
Orwell had much to say about language and the power of the State. Basically, your ability to think clearly and critically and to formulate and communicate complex ideas is constrained largely by your command of language. In this context, "Text Messaging" is a devastating 21st-century victory on the statist path to what Orwell called Linguistic Reduction. By discarding rules for spelling, syntax, protocol and style, "Texting" handicaps literacy, essentially leaving young people increasingly unable to communicate much more than the three letter equivalent of grunts.
Language is also a key tool for thought control. Consider Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP). The audience that has a poor grasp of language is handicapped when attempting to filter any message that has been written by a propagandist skilled in wordcraft.
Literacy and critical thinking are essential for the preservation of freedom, not to mention a healthy economy and prosperous career. How can you operate at a high level in any complex organization without good communication skills? Lack of diligent attention to good reading, writing and speaking skills at an early age is inexcusable.
Rgds
Good thing we still have access to an effective counter: books; at least until they start emulating Bradbury too.
Excellent post. Looking back at my college education truly exemplified this personally. In private school I was expected to read original authors in Philosophy,Sociology, Psycology, Religion, History and even Science. With out a foundation in good language skills, this would have been impossible. I was thankful I wasn't required to read Nietzsche in German. Advanced classes had no textbooks to rely on summations. Papers were critiques and comparing/contrasting arguements, never summarizing facts.
When I went to a State University I was shocked critical thought was not valued, at least as an undergrad. Bubble tests and an occasional essay were the test methods. Regurgitation of fact seemed to be the requirement for a good grade. I did what I had to do to graduate but I knew the inherent value to myself was essentially negligible.
I fully agree with your point Lore. Though legions of people today have discarded the necessity of language in terms of grammar, syntax, formulation of argument, or presentation of thought succinctly and clearly, this doesn't mean it has lost it's importance. Everyone should strive for impeccability of one's word or one is simply alone in their own world.
Miffed ;-)
i never use capital letters, except when using acronyms, and when writing formally.
it's one of my rules of grammar.
why should a letter be capitalized just because it happens to be at the beginning of a sentence or proper name?
it's discriminatory, and i won't stand for it, i tell you!
i belive in equality for all letters, regardless of where they happen to be in the sentence.
All this for one abused colloquialism?
Damn that rap music.
You are correct grammar vs grammer. I do admit I spell terribly and thanks for correcting this. However, in this case it was a typo. I should have checked my post more carefully. Sometimes my iPad has changed properly spelled words into incorrectly spelled ones for some bizarre reason ( this was not the case you cite)so I must be more vigilant in the future.
Miffed;-)
I agree that the USA is means to an end in the big picture. At this point in time it is the best means available....
...and running on fumes. The cheap oil is all gone.
ummm adr a propaganda writer? you haven't been here long, have you?
The gov'ts using those 'World Standard Currencies' dont steal?
haha
1. National taxation
2. Regional taxation
3. Local taxation
4. Costly bank fees
5. Regulatory fees
6. Filing costs
7. Seizure of your funds if/when it is commingled wiith funds the govt deems illegal (eg money laundering, drug trafficking)
Just back from the Bitcoin ATM. Guy in front of me from Senegal used to use Western Union to send $ to family in Africa, now will use BTCF and pocket almost $100/mo in transaction fee savings.
Behind me were Phillipinos sending money home.
A few tables of people doing private BTC transactions.
Some Chinese guys saying that if 10% of the wealthiest Chinese (they have over 30m millionaires) use BTC to send $100,000 to friends/family overseas, or to invest in overseas business, then it will be $100,000 per BTC overnight.
Silk Road 2.0 brought to you by the FBI. Why don't you guys just turn yourselves in now to save some time. They are just gathering information right now. The arrests will come later after they stop laughing their asses off about the dummies who line up to buy drugs from the cops.
If cryptocurrencies and 2048 bit encryption become ubiquitous then the state withers away.
Voluntary exchange of value and freedom will rule. If you want a road or a school you will have to find other ways to pay for it rather than thru the barrel of a gun and prison as threats.
Sorry. I forgot.
Fuck you Bernanke!
Free Francis Sawyer!
I really miss f_sawyer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is some shit people can't handle, such as the truth.
Did francis get banned?
francis was banned as was the TRUTH
That is sad.
did ekm get banned?
Which truth was Francis espousing at the time?
Yo mamma
the disproportionate hegemony of a certain tribe in american finance, he said before "being disappeared".
No it doesn't.
You still have to process the blockchain. Who is better placed to do that than the Federal Reserve and the primary dealers?
Bitcoin is a red herring. A fifth column. A wild goose chase. A merry dance.
Need I go on?
"You still have to process the blockchain. Who is better placed to do that than the Federal Reserve and the primary dealers?"
The free market?
"process the blockchain" ??
Chinese, Russians, Europeans, South Americans, cousin Louie in Alabama are all processing the blockchain right now. They are throwing 3,690,179 GH/s of hash power at it as we speak.
No, you needn't; you've proven yoursefl quite ignorant enough with that.
Who remembers the liberty dollar?
I bought some from germany on ebay last year.
It is my pride and joy in my curio cabinet.
Let freedom ring.
Yeah, like that.
The Feds and the FED will not be denied.
liberty dollar / bitcoin
apples / oranges
silly comparison on sooooo many levels...
Sure, Bitcoin is infallible because it involves math and is done over the Internet, is that it?
Who built the Internet and controls it? Who bagged the Pirate Bay guys?
I'm behind the idea and those against the FED, but use your noodle.
"Sure, Bitcoin is infallible because it involves math and is done over the Internet, is that it?"
Yes, I think you are starting to get it.
"Who bagged the Pirate Bay guys?"
Hmmm, the piratebay is still showing up in my browser right now, maybe you need to recheck your internets? The website seems to be working the same regardless of the current owners. You can imprison the man but not the idea.
You and the others must be right.
Jump into Bitcoin, it's infallible because it uses binary digits and requires a technology that has been in the mainstream for less than 20 years, and electricity, and an Internet provider, and a credit card or bank account to pay for the provider, linked to the MAC Address of your computer.
And those Central Banks and Governments won't mess with it at all, whatsoever, I'm certain, just like they never messed with Gold or other stores of value - because they care.
And no one could ever resist them, because that would require ordnance and armament, and governments won't mess with that at all. Seriously, is there any end to the things you can't do?
You really don't think that in a post-crash world there would be a market for Internet service paid for in bitcoin and possibly linked the MAC I can set in my computer at will? Never heard of Gresham's Law?
Planning for a return to the stone age seems premature, at best.
Nobody (at least not me) is commanding others to "jump into bitcoin".
But I am baffled by the contradictory attitude so many hold against bitcoin... if bitcoin didn't exist, these same naysayers would be sitting in the basement, pining, "... golly gee, if only there were an anonymous digital currency that could undermine the CB-controlled global monetary system!". But of course bitcoin DOES exist and many who should "get it" instead piss all over it... because it's not gold? a silly reason, as if BC were a threat to gold's 5000 year track record.
The genie is out of the bottle. And even if bitcoin were smashed (somehow) by TPTB then another (even more robust) anonymous digital currency will pop up in it's place...
The very existence of bitcoin is a very significant development, IMHO - a milestone for liberty & decentralization - a rare victory for the good guys amongst countless defeats at the hands of corrupt unelected war mongers. Perhaps this point (bitcoin's historical context) is not so obvious to others as it is to me, for whatever it's flaws (and there are but very few) bitcoin should be absolutely celebrated and encouraged at every turn, IMO.
"The very existence of bitcoin is a very significant development, IMHO - a milestone for liberty & decentralization - a rare victory for the good guys amongst countless defeats at the hands of corrupt unelected war mongers."
Yes, ^5, I am with you there, amen.
My main point is I see Bitcoin as a distraction from tearing things down, a delay in disconnecting and withdrawal, and something that will work for a while and give people hope then be squelched.
But, I'm with you in spirit.
Fair enough, to be honest with you I am only interested in it working for the next 100 years as beyond that point I will surely be dead and 'couldn't care less'.
Satoshi Nakamoto, that's who remembers.
Any time someone whines about the inventor of bitcoin being anonymous, I just point to the number of alternative currency developers that wind up in prison.
And you all trust that this inventor is just altruistic and wanted a better future for the world? You don't trust ANYBODY, ANY GOVERNMENT or ANYTHING but you trust this magical new currency with your money? Amazing...
It's not magical. It's open fucking source. Go look at it and make your own decision. There's no need to trust a 3rd party including the person you are transacting with.
Doesn't have to be ALL my "money" now does it?
Maybe I feel like fractionally supporting something that provides a way to send a giant FUCK YOU to the powers that be and their economic control system.
They were a centralized - single point of failure - outfit. So 1990s. Bitcoin is decentralized, worldwide, peer-to-peer, trustless based system. Can't shut it down.
Coxxukking feds just don't get it. Or maybe they do. I think we shan't be far from bloodshed, and the firing up of those FEMA camps.
I keep whistling the theme from The Great Escape for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zwW7iWinrk
BitCoin is not a joke... however, governments demonizing it, attacking it or trying to make it illegal WILL hurt its value in the short/medium term. ...but as the underground economy grows and thrives in the US and elsewhere it will just keep growing and the only way the government will stop it is by cutting off everyones Internet/power. So basicaly, the global banking system is dead meat thanks to bitcoin and other virtual currencies like it.
The fax machine helped destroy the soviet union propaganda machines... and the Internet is slowly destroying this current global cabal.. both by real information and educating humanity and now by taking over the roles of banks.
The day the fed makes bitcoin illegal is they day every bitcoin holder can retire.
Looks like someone gets it.
Exactly.
I was recommending people buy bitcoins here months ago and everyone was down voting me. Now I say pressure from governments could lower its value and people down vote me? Wake up, the exchanges are highly regulated right now as it is... regulation CAN do damage to bitcoin... but like I said, it would not be long term.
Virtual tulips for sale
Problem with BitCoin is that it is dependent on constant stream of electrons to keep it going. Should SHTF in an epic way, good luck cashing, let alone getting, your BitCoins. It's a fools gold to invest in it. Physical assets are the only safehaven.
Or you put your Bit coin wallet on a flash drive and your wife took it to transfer some photos of the kids and lost it. Whoops, there goes your bank account.
You can create paper wallets that cannot be accessed any other way and store it in a safe or vault... just like bonds/cash.
If TSHTF, good luck getting your money from the ATM.....but I do understand the FDIC aspects.
It seems the revolting citizenry are pursuing economic freedom again sir...........
Good luck to all those in bitcoin. I'm sure many of you are making a huge profit. However, this is not the first time that an object of zero intrinsic-worth has been propelled to higher "Perceved Value" so just be careful.
:) so what is the "value" of the USD? .... It's going down, by the minute and the FED is trapped in an everlasting QE. It will not stop and you are starting to realise it. Bitcoin is worth 4B USD today. Come back in two years and you will see the USD devalued 100 times to Bitcoin. The dollar is a dead asset and will continue die for the coming 50 years.
The value of the USD is in its ability to be used in an economy. So long as the USD reduces in value SLOWLY, or not at all, you can have a stable economy. However, if the USD rapidly appreciated, day to day (i.e. hyperdeflation), then it would make no sense of anyone to produce goods.
For example: If I made a product for 2 bitcoin of effort. I then have to sell it. Imagine after a week I haven't sold it... in that time bitcoin appreciates by 100%... someone else then makes the same product, but now there effort is measured as 1 bitcoin... He is able to undercut me and I am no longer able to sell my product for a "profit"... ergo, a currency in hyper appreciation is unsuitable as a basis of an economy.
Btcoin isn't experiencing hyper-apprciation... All the other currencies by which you measure it are experiencing hyper-depreciation.
Actually, it would be better to say that the "value" of bitcoin is correcting against the amount of fiat currency and debt currently contained in the global economy. Gold and silver should be doing the same, but they're not because those markets are controlled. The makret for bitcoin is mostly a free-for-all.
And as long as the market remains free, the "value" of bitcoin will continue to go up. It has to because the amount of fiat and debt goes up - every single day.
You point to your "product" and its value being measured by money. But that's not entirely accurate. The value is measured by the amount of excess energy you devoted to creating it, and how much in excess energy it costs you to duplicate it.
If you can get someone else to give you that exact amount of their excess energy for your product, then you break even. Get them to give you more, and you make a proft. How they give you that energy, or how it is measured doesn't matter.
With all due respect, and far be it for me to even implicitly defend fiat currencies in any manner whatsoever, but I don't think that the world's (fiat) currencies have depreciated by 75% in the last three months.
I smell an establishment-fueled pump-and-crash here, with the goal of discrediting Bitcoin as "unstable" and "excessively volatile" in price/value --- just as was done in 2010-2011 with silver, and between 2011 and earlier this year with gold.
but there is more than a little truth to this analysis, i.e. as bitcoin grows, support for trad. fiat wanes... can't really deny that.
and when BC becomes as ubiquitious as, say, Paypal or Western Union...? Whole new world.
"I don't think that the world's (fiat) currencies have depreciated by 75% in the last three months."
Might be true might not be if you also want to take into consideration some of the made up financial nonsense that currently exist only in the fiat world that is constantly being poofed in and out of existence. But what can certainly be said is that people are looking forward. Fiat didn't have to depreciate 75% in the last three months, enough people just needed to bet on the prediction that it will depreciate by 75% at some point in the future. Fiat could have only dropped 5% but if everyone thinks it's a sure thing it drops 80% over the next decade, btc rises.
as much as i hate to agree with grammar nazis like akak, he's right.
the spike in price of bitcoin has to do with capital inflows to bitcoin, not a sudden depreciation of all fiat currencies.
i wouldn't go so far as to infer that there is a pump and dump occurring - that may or may not be the case.
there are more likely explanations, such as increase in media attention, roll-out of the first bitcoin ATMs, etc.
On this point I concede you are spot (pun!) on; speculative excesses from the muppetherders are always something of which to be wary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QFErOdTag
"First, they ignore you.
Then, they laugh at you.
Then, they fight you.
Then, you win."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Then he got 3 bullets in his chest.......Winner.
Spoken like someone who has never stood up for what he believes in, also known as a coward.
if you applied the same metrics to silver could you extrapolate a price based on the same demand and the current available supply of silver compared to Bitcoin.