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As Bitcoin Plunges 25% On Government Scrutiny, The First BTC "Fair Value" Reco Has A Stunning Price Target
It took literally minutes following our report from yesterday that in addition to the ECB and Fed, it was the Senate's turn to finally shine the spotlight on the most notorious electronic currency with a hearing titled "Beyond Silk Road: Potential Risks, Threats, and Promises of Virtual Currencies" next Monday, for Bitcoin to tumble 25% from its all time high just shy of $400, to $290 within 12 hours, in large part answering our rhetorical question if "the one thing that can finally end the dream of Bitcoin holders arrive soon: when the government, and existing monetary authorities, start taking it seriously." They appear to be doing just that, which is why additional upside from here may be in the eye of the Cray supercomputer-armed NSA beholder.
So yes: Bitcoin is volatile. Very. That much is clear. But what is not so clear, and perhaps a key reason for this volatility, is just what the fundamental, or intrinsic value of BitCoins is when one strips away the pure euphoric momentum to the upside or downside.
To answer that question, we go to Raoul Pal, head of the Global Macro Investor, and his November 1st recommendation to "Buy Bitcoins"(when BTC was $210 so nearly a 100% return in 1 week) which among other things attempts to "value BTC using a macro framework" or, in other words, the first supply-demand driven fair value assessment of BTC.
His take, and price target, in a nutshell:
A fudge, but not a stupid one
Let’s use a broad guesstimate. One Bitcoin should theoretically be worth 700 ounces of gold or pretty close to $1,000,000, if we adjust existing supply of both to equal eachother.
One BTC is currently worth 0.14 ounces of gold.
That gives BTC an upside of 5000 times to equal the current price of gold, supply adjusted. Clearly, I and everyone else believes that Gold may well be much higher than here in the next 5 to 10 years, thus versus the US Dollar the upside for BTC could be multiples of that.
Now, before you shake your head, simply go back to the chart of Gold versus the US Dollar and just recognise that it has risen 8750% since the 1920s. And just remember that Microsoft rose 61,000% from its IPO to it’s peak.
Considering what we know about the world, I personally believe that Bitcoin may well explode in value as more and more people begin to use it.
If you stuck $5,000 into Bitcoins and each Bitcoin did go up to a gold equivalent of let’s say, only 100 ounces of gold (not the potential fair value of 700), then at current prices your Bitcoin stash would be worth $3.3m.
Now that’s what I call a tail-risk option. It’s either worth zero or it’s worth a truly outstanding amount of money.
I bet you never thought you’d see this in a macro publication. But I’m serious. This just might work.
Read on in the attached pdf below (link)
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That's because you think bitcoin will be higher than $40.
When you find out you're wrong you'll be in for a giant surprise.
Could be! But in my opinion as someone who understands how the system works, that's a level of risk I'm willing to take.
You and I probably differ on that score.
at least differing in a rational way.
The irrational answer would be to deny the chance. To accept the real risk & decide to face it is what an investor does having done whatever qualifies as due diligence. Well, best of luck to you.
If you stuck $5,000 into Bitcoins and each Bitcoin did go up to a gold equivalent of let’s say, only 100 ounces of gold (not the potential fair value of 700), then at current prices your Bitcoin stash would be worth $3.3m.
How many times has a similar mantra been repeated?
While I applaud any free market currency that competes with central bank electrons/paper backed only by gubbermint fiat, irritating both in the process, Bitcoins are still just electrons on a computer/flash drive not backed by nuthin'.
Speculate if you like. But, anyone with a brain in his ukranium will continue to trust only real tangible (clink-clink) money with intrinsic value, silver and gold, in his physical possession, as a safe & stable store of value.
Here is where this analysis gets bitchslapped by the realities of both the physical and digital worlds:
You cannot snythesize a replacement for gold for less energy than it requires to find more gold, but you can certainly dilute the value of bitcoins by any number of alternative currencies, each of which could provide exactly the same utility as BTC, but dividing the 'demand-share' amongst them to keep "tulipmania" at (e?)bay. In essence, the OP failed to correctly account for how said demand could be met.
That being said, I would very much suspect the same a-holes that you know snythetically short real commidities with this same smackdown on their new toy (if only to giver their underlords coverfire) and would watch closely for their actions in pumping multiple digital currencies in various ways as Squid are wont to do.
Amazing the amount of anti Bitcoin blah on here.
Bitcoin offers frictionless global transfers that require no application or ID. Every business person wants cheap, quick transfers and Bitcoin offers this. As long as the exchanges between Bitcoin and gold/silver/fiat function then it provides a genuine service. I´m not saying Bitcoin will necessarily survive but a secure global shared ledger has potential.
Amazing the amount of anti Bitcoin blah on here.
Bitcoin offers frictionless global transfers that require no application or ID. Every business person wants cheap, quick transfers and Bitcoin offers this. As long as the exchanges between Bitcoin and gold/silver/fiat function then it provides a genuine service. I´m not saying Bitcoin will necessarily survive but a secure global shared ledger has potential.
Best explanation I've read so far. Global shared ledger. I like that.
It's the exchange part where it begins to get slippery. On that part you are right in saying "potential".
The global remittance market is a half a trillion bucks and growing. Much of the market is eaten up by fees and other costs, passed on to the users.
Bitcoin removes the obstacle of fees and costs to users. Bitcoin's value is in near-instant and near free transactions between two parties, without using banks or other unreliable and dishonest agents. But like any other tool, if you don't learn how to use it, even a little bit, you'll never reap any of the benefits of the tool's possibilities.
If Bitcoin takes 10% of the remittance market, say $50 billion per year, 1 bitcoin will fetch roughly $3500-$5k. That's a lotta jack that banks, and agents of similar ilk, would be missing out on for moving money around. But the value would be going somewhere. Guess where.
.5tln for remittances, 2tln for blackmarket, who knows how much for chinese communist beaurocrats trying to hide their illegal yuan. that's before we even start on non-killer apps, like security from counter-party risk.
oh, and e-commerce, heard that's growin' industry.
I believe that aspect of Bitcoin is one of its most desirable features, and has me even more bullish than before.
paying a 2% fee to ensure I use a currency which does not have a 80% volatility band is well worth the cost.
viva la bitcoin......or anything else that escapes the scrutiny, manipulation, and confiscation habits of the moneychangers.
Jesus, every time i read about Bitcoin it has either blasted through another few zeros or fallen 90%...wouldn't touch it with a f**king bargepole. Interesting experiment it is - "sound money" its not.
Litecoin is stable.
~$4 USD for one.
Stable because the wallstreeters haven't jumped on it as of yet.
Over.
Bitcoin is like the law, arbitrary. Gold is like nature, randomly found and not, in any way, subject to the whims of man.
Bitcoin is at best a medium of exchange, like wired funds. Gold with its long history is a perfect store of value.
Gold is a good-ish store of value until an effecient means of siphoning off the ocean's free floating gold is found.
Bitcoin is an excellent way to exchange value. But in order to use it this way, the market cap needs to increase to handle the transaction volume.
Fail.
Over.
So yes: Bitcoin is volatile. Very. That much is clear. But what is not so clear, and perhaps a key reason for this volatility, is just what the fundamental, or intrinsic value of BitCoins is when one strips away the pure euphoric momentum to the upside or downside.
Some simple talk about this 'psuedo-currency' is enough to make it drop in 'value' by 25%. If i was to hold hearings on 'bread', saying that people are using it to trade for, say, drugs, would BREAD be less intrinsically 'valuable' in the sandwich you are eating? Ha ha ha, perhaps it would take LESS 'bitcoin' thingies to buy, therefore making it a better purchace...
OBVIOUSLY,'Bitcoin' HAS NO INTRINSIC VALUE. It is just like a stock (NO, actually, it seems to be more of a 'hedge fund'). It's all a matter of 'confidence'. It's a 'confidence game'. Well, then, it's a 'con game', if you will. Any method of trade worth ANY intrinsic value' would NOT be subject to such fluctuations in purchacing power (I.E. the 25% drop in value).
What, pray tell, is the 'fundamental value' of an idea or concept which is not translatable to a 3-dimensional reality in and of itself?
Does the fantasy girl in the video game REALLY give you a 'happy ending', or do you have to do that for yourselves?
Is Bitcoin like phone sex?
But, but, but, the trendy cafes all take it in trade for a latte...blah, blah, blah...
Let's see. A GLOBAL, DIGITAL currency. One to replace all other forms of GLOBAL, DIGITAL currencies (which, of course, are BAD, because they are simply DIGITAL, and also GLOBAL as well). Here, if you don't like this bad shit, here's some MOAR bad shit. Don't critisize it. Keep moving. Nothing to think about here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH_DkBI9Qsk
One world, one government, one digital currency, one religion, one car, one for them, none for you when they shut the power off.
Naturally, if this 'Bitcoin' survives, it must be REGULATED by the REGULATORS who are NOW moving to REGULATE the internet (upon which BITCOIN is based). The article speaks of 'fundamental value', but fails to comprehend the FUNDAMENTAL FLAWS in placing value upon something which doesn't really EXIST.
Silly humans!
OCH! I'm going back to my cabin to study some more engineering journals. I'll leave you humans to program the next Holodeck simulation of a currency. This one sucks!
Check the deep web .onion domains.
You can buy 'dirty bitcoins' from vendors for 1/2 the price. They are also selling very high quality counterfeit USD's ($20, $50, $100's that pass the pen test and machine test). USD's are selling for .50 cents on the dollar.
So you buy the dirty bitcoins and then use the dirty bitcoins to buy the counterfeit USD's. Then take the USD's and buy some clean bitcoins, for free.
If anyone questions your activities(FBI) you can also hire a legit hitman and some usable EU passports.
If you don't get hassled then cash out the clean BitCoins at the CC-ATM machine and use it to pay your rent, electric bill, cell phone, and internoodle bills.
I call it living off the land.
Over.
News flash:
Government regulators, armed with the usual things, just swooped in, shutting down one of the most evil, rotten Bitcoin Cartels, in some thirld-world nation that most of you sheople wouldn't recognize the name of, in a daring raid to sieze computers and Hostess Twinkies from what appear to be several post-adolecent males, all gathered in the basement of one of their mothers. Here's Biff Studly with the report:
"I'm speaking to you from the outskirts of Whateverstan, Haifa, looking in shock, as the Bitcoin Forger Laundering Gang is being hauled away. They are all wearing the trademark Nike shoes, and pocket protectors; most in boxer shorts depicting what appears to be 'Mickey Mouse'. One of them appears to be trying to tape his glasses back together now,,,"
CUT, to the sounds of automatic gunfire...
Lucky I would never get caught in such a roundup, I'm just a simple laundromat man. Living off the land.
A high plains drifter.
Over.
"I'm really good at killing people" - President Chalky Goebbels
I would add to his hubris that if I can't literally kill you I will try and steal or confiscate your money no matter where it is or what form it is in. I am "The One", and there shall be nothing that undercuts or undermines my authority to make life in Amerika just like Stain's in the 1950's. Good luck Bitcoin holders.
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
Where do I buy these things? I want to speculate!
Big Time Gold Bug Bearing is working on that very thing, devo. I am intrigued by the possibility of being able to move value around more freely...
MT.GOX - https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20195237-General-Questions
Bitstamp - https://www.bitstamp.net
Two largest exchanges from what I understand, anyway..
NOT Mt. Gox. They're bank wire capacity is super limited, people are waiting months at the moment.
With https://localbitcoins.com/ you can set up a person-to-person cash only deal if there are sellers in your area. There are also online transaction offers there. Coinbase.com is the standard "Bitcoin Store" but is only available through a U.S. bank account.
This lists all the major exchanges: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
Localbitcoins is your best bet starting out small, since you can had a guy $300 cash in person and have him transfer a bitcoin to you.
Right now, in the US, I'd say go with bitstamp or campbx. DO NOT go with Mt. Gox, they're having troubles with the banking system so it takes weeks to months to transfer out with them at the moment. Also do not leave your bitcoins in any account, transfer them to an address from a software wallet (ideally generated on a PC not connected to the internet), the exchanges are the primary hacking targets and get hit and drained of bitcoin fairly frequently. (This is where the "bitcoin has been hacked" nonsense comes from -- it's websites that get hacked that are storing bitcoin and leaving the keys online, d'oh!)
I'll pay forward the favor All Out of Bubblegum did for me in January and give both you and DoChen 0.1 BTC if you publish an address here for me to transfer to. I'll do the same for one or two more people if they ask.
I'd happily take you up on that offer. Have been trying to buy small amount to test out, but was surprised how difficult it is to quickly buy BTC.
1NZqEwutjNvZmn1Jb754cjES8JKFJDanU6
"Let’s use a broad guesstimate"
Broad is a huge understatement, there is no guesstimate here.
This is called 'pulling one out of your ass'.
Donate to my cause: 18D1nyFstr8doMtX6nYJoaigcBGJqYesy1
Fishez!
I will likely write this up at my blog once I have done a transaction or two.
1P11zA1GaJcyjc7oVt1jVQvWcPoW12sv5R
EDIT:
I do not need the money, give it to the guy above instead. I already got a small donation which I am going to experiment with.
Sent. I'm really bad at following instructions. Also sent to Long above as well.
gold can be banned or taxed on windfall gains. bitcoin already banned in Thailand.
You and I are slaves you may take on debt but don't get any ideas of financial freedom. This is for the top 5-10 percent.
Signed your loving globalist royalist oligarch. I come in the chocolate and vanilla tub of Socialist / Capitalist so you can debate the finer points of the vanilla bean V Cocoa. While you life's excess endeavor accrues to my interests.
Gold can only be affected by "banning" if you're ass stupid enough to to get caught. Even more ass stupid to get "taxed" for it.
Government is an illusion.
"oh, gee the government says I can't give you this object because they banned it, I guess I have to do what they say."
Why?
True the criminal gang just may show up with guns and threaten your life (or just take it for that matter) but then again maybe they will not. It all depends on what your risk tolerance is.
I can state for a fact that the fiat dollar will continue to lose its purchasing power. And most all transactions nowadays are recorded when it comes to dollars.
Pretty enticing scenario. So is the immaculately angelic chick I had over here last night and teasing my life for the last year and a half.
So is the Woman I'm 'married' with but who hasn't spoken with me for a year and a half.
Life offers many 'promises'.
I've been exploring the realm beyond money, ephemeral beauty, sexual delights and other temporal deceptions.
The 'merchandise' so far is more compelling.
Posted this on my site the other day on Bicoin.
The Race To Dominate Bitcoin
http://www.daytradingbias.com/?p=106528
So who will take the plunge first? Germany? US? or China? =)
I guess that if I were to develop a new crypto currency like bitcoin (I'll call it bitecoin), that means as the creator I get lots of it to begin with since I am like god.
..."Fair Value"...
[MMD] bwa ha ha HAAAAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZEjo8gIbU (1:06)
David Webb on the "hole in Bitcoin".
He claims that the hole is the fact that there will only ever be 22,000,000 coins in existence so once people realize that there aren't enough to support trade because they're hoarded they'll become worthless. David Webb, as a guy who is clearly more of a technology expert than myself, is painfully clueless about the basics of bitcoin. Bitcoins were created with the ability to be divisible into exponentially smaller units. So, if the use were to become widespread, somebody could buy a hamberger with a 'milbit' (1000th of a bitcoin) or something, or a centbit (100th of a bitcoin) for something a little bit more valuable, etc.
It is interesting to see that a currency with deflation woven into its very fabric is subject to hypervolatity. I wonder, if ever silver and gold achieve their potentitals whether we will see the same behaviour in them - prices spiking when hoarders refuse to sell at any cost, then collapsing just as quickly when profiteers panic that they have missed the peak.
Why is the bid always higher than the ask?
Dafuq..??
https://markets.blockchain.info
I don't get all this defensiveness in regard to Bitcoins. I don't quite get it, not interested in it...but Im not all butt hurt over bit coins like some seem to be.
To me it would be brilliant if it endured and became somewhat immune to Govt fucking arouund with......if it proves itself over time...then it might just another place to put some money where you can feel safe about...Return of capital....aka gold.
Now I have gold and silver.... but not all my eggs in that basket since its fiat value is totally corrupted and isn't allowed its own head. Some in property....the rest all cash in AUD earning 3.5% Tempting to buy more gold....but I don't want to be over exposed to one category (since govts can make laws that totally fuck up one category..ie tax).
So Im waiting to see how bitcoins do over time. I am not emmotional butt hurt over it, I don't get that people here are.
I heard about Bitcoin early on and, like you, said, "heh, cool idea, hope it takes off." After a couple years it came back up on my radar and, having done more research, made the determination in my mind that it was on the way to success and started getting involved. "So Im waiting to see how bitcoins do over time." What amount of time and how will you measure how they are doing?
Perl script to get current quote and trades.You may need to 'sudo cpan install Net::Async::WebSocket::Client' first.
use IO::Async::Loop;
use Net::Async::WebSocket::Client;
my $client = Net::Async::WebSocket::Client->new(
on_frame => sub {
my ($self, $frame ) = @_;
print "\n$frame\n";
});
my $loop = IO::Async::Loop->new;
$loop->add($client);
$client->connect(
host => 'websocket.mtgox.com',
service => 80,
url => "ws://websocket.mtgox.com:80/mtgox",
on_connected => sub {},
on_connect_error => sub { die "cannot connect = $_[-1]";},
on_resolve_error => sub { die "connect resolve - $_[-1]"; },
);
$loop->loop_forever;
Anoncoin seems to be very promising https://anoncoin.net// :
Anoncoin is currently the only cryptocoin that supports the i2p darknet. With the addition of being fully tor compatible there is a huge possibility of hiding in plain sight by transferring coins using the darknets only. This kind of transfer across darknets, exchanges, and "coin mixers" can help you ensure that the coins you received initially either from mining, purchasing, or as payment of services can be fully scrambled and thus not traceable back to your wallet. Even if the blockchain is studied in detail there will be no way to tell which coins belong to what wallet, nor any kind of ID.
This is exactly why I don't like bitcoin long term. In the near term, speculatively, it could make an awesome momentum trade but, litecoin and all the others will make this thing moot. It's similar to clothing trends. First it's unique but then it gets imitated into oblivion. Regardless. I'm thinking about buying some bitcoins speculatively.
I must be one of the hammer wielding dumbassess who cannot/does not play piano or something. But when one speaks of "value" in regard to putting a dollar/gold/salt/wheat/pork belly/whatever sum on it, I tend to want some tangible object or good or already performed service that I can put my hands on to do with that definition or valuation.
You can have as many bitcoin or whatever you want but if no one is interested in trading them for let's say FOOD you won't be all that rich. The dollar is really no different save for the fact that right now most anyone will trade most anything for dollars.
And they will continue to do so.
Until they do not.
I fail to see in a dollar collapse scenario how bitcoin becomes more accepted. At least not just yet. Perhaps when the guys who grow the food I eat start taking ANYTHING but cash or even begin to use a friggin calculator...hmmm, might want ot give that some thought.
BTW who exactly decides who "mines" the bitcoin, how much gets "mined" and who gets it first? Seems like that is a pretty important part of the equation. And since most everyone has to BUY the stuff WITH DOLLARS or another fiat currency just how does one-and I mean you fonestar-define "rich"? What if someone else has as many bitcoins as you have but bought at either higher or lower prices? Which one is rich? Which one is less rich?
I can sit here and pour through endless questions that to me have not yet been answered. Then I can come up with more. I do not think that makes me a luddite. I'm all for another monetary system. But right now the bitcoin is just-figuratively speaking-a piece of paper. Except without the intrinsic value of a piece of paper. It's just a bunch of ones and zeros THAT A BUNCH OF HUMANS HAVE DECIDED TO TRADE AND ULTIMATELY VALUE IN FIAT CURRENCY DOLLARS.
That's a little problem.
The protocol for creating bitcoin can be, and already is duplicatable. Cryptocurrencies give the masses the ability to print and create fiat also. I can only guess that without one, standardized version this will go down in flames. Not to mention earned "money" plus credit "money" is chasing this momentum. If you break bitcoin and litecoin down to its smallest fractions, there is 6 quadrillion of these units.
Anybody can mine bitcoins. You just have to connect to the network and start doing the calculations. With this being the case you can imagine many people have already jumped in and are currently mining. At this point most of them have bought expensive specialized hardware to do this. This can be measured: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty. The equivalent of about 4000 supercomputers are struggling against each other trying to solve the next block, in the process securing the network from attack.
People who place value in Bitcoin do so because of Bitcoin's properties. One of these properties is that they have always been and will always be intangible. You can carry any amount of Bitcoin across any border and they will weigh exactly zero. You can send Bitcoin off to you kid at college any hour of any day without going through the banks for basically zero fees. Bitcoins are scarce, fungible, recognizable, divisible and decentralized (i.e., no single point of failure presents itself to the powers that be).
Bitcoin is a big topic with many aspects, https://en.bitcoin.it is a good wiki site that goes into each topic in more detail.
Bitcoins started from scratch outside of the banking system. It is unrealistic to believe merchants all over the world would suddenly just start accepting them all at once. However, they are gradually, one by one, coming on board.
The prevailing argument is that PMs will serve wonders somewhere down the road, based on history and the looming economic apocalypse. I am balls deep in PMs but you would have to be a dildo to overlook BTC benefits at the very least short term. No one here has a fucking clue what could happen to BTC, it could reign supreme or end in the shitter....who fucking cares. Many are looking to hold wealth for generations. Carpe diem. I'm making a mint and don't care enough to waste time and effort bitching about power outages or government intervention. Plus as many have said, diversify and spend some BTC profit on PMs. It you fear BTC enough to not make some easy money, your loss.
I agree brothuh!
It is fascinating to see the Mania.
Mania usually exists outside of fundamentals or solutions, or even the hint of such things...
The greatest affirmation involves witnessing, and hopefully therefore understanding, how we got here in the first place.
If you are a BTC speculator, you are doing well, as you still purportedly hold BTC to a higher standard, that which shuns Control...
but you ignore the Mania, the fundamentals, the solutions, and even the Control that is breathing down BTC's neck...
the long-term "success" of BTC requires a soft coup of the global infrastructure, central banks and governments included.
Good luck to all -- BTC is indicative of a Chaos that will not resolve itself without pain, and wealthy Bitcoiners resolves nothing at all.
Well. The very fact that a thread on BitCoin can generate such an incredible volume of discussion here on Zerohedge means:
1) there is most definitely a market for it
2) it is here to stay for a while
That's NOT TRUE, the simple fact is that DAILY you repeat
making posting about BTC, and its common blogger fodder for
all here to attack,
If everyday here on ZH you were to do an OP post on turds or geese that too would get lots of comments.
It's basically 24/7 here either faber, or bitcoin, and its pretty fucking boring, and I believe that the majority here are in support of BTC based on /sarc.
Where on Earth did this Fonestar douche get the idea that everyone who is bearish on bitcoin is a technodoofus and an anti-intellectual and uneducated?
Those 3 statements smack of the most narcicistic jerkwad I've read in a long time.
Fonestar, I assure you that you're not the smartest guy in the room. There are plenty of folks herein who more than qualify for MENSA.
I've spent many years as an academician, and have a PhD in one "hard" science, an advanced degree in another, and one in business (not bc I wanted it but because I was told to get one if I wanted to move up). I'm anything but anti-intellectual, but I do see the toxic hubris that sometimes accompanies it - and i fall prey to to that more often than I'd like,
So you have some programming background? So...fucking...what?! My daughter has dual PhD's in bio and chem but she's not stoopid enough to presume that ipso facto confers upon her the ability to lecture me or anyone else on the macro and microecon ramifications of some protein she's playing with or how the markets will respond. Perhaps more importantl...how governments will respond. Unless your bitcoins can buy an army or police force then you're WAY behind.
At least one poster suggested that cryptocurrencies are inevitable. As a small black market perhaps but I doubt that they will amount to more than that. (See comment re armies and police). BTC might make tremendous sense, but so do thousands of other things that will never be permitted to see the light of day (and will remain in the darkness of black markets)
..."and will remain in the darkness of black markets".
Such as the dark markets of Allentown PA.?
Man buys sandwich from SUBWAY using Bitcoin.
Search youtube for Subway and Bitcoin.
"Where on Earth did this Fonestar douche get the idea that everyone who is bearish on bitcoin is a technodoofus and an anti-intellectual and uneducated?"
Mostly because of the stuff that comes out of their mouths regarding bitcoin. As an enthusiast, I'm well aware of several potential hurdles and threats to Bitcoin, but some of the stuff people say on here proves that they haven't done 5 minutes worth of research into it before shouting to the rooftops about what a scam it is ("HACKERZ R JUST GOIN TO PRINT MOAR BITCOINZ!!")
If people want to get educated about how bitcoins operate and then explain in a rational fashion why they still aren't buying, that's awesome. Let's talk. But the amount of willful ignorance displayed in every bitcoin thread on ZH is beyond ridiculous.
Is BTC a commodity that can feed, cloth or shelter people? What is the tangible benefit of BTC other than a group of people declaring it quasi currency and speculating the price higher and higher?
C'mon folks, throw a guy a bone here. I'm ready to dump my gold and silver and convert to BTC this instant if anyone can assure me that my legacy can still use it to sustain their livelihoods in 100 years. I'm willing to buy BTC hand over fist!
Unlike tulips, BTC doesn't even need watering or planting!
It doesn't really matter. The BTC mania and rage just might be the bitch that jumpstarts hyperinflation for good. As a grower, I don't care. If there's credence to BTC in the exchange world, I will have to raise my prices along with the inflation of BTC vs. USD.
It just might be that as BTC screams higher, the people awake and will start realizing that Fed or ECB paper is toilet paper.
"I'm ready to dump my gold and silver"
No don't do that. Just diversify a little into BTC, preferably with some extra fiat you may have lying around. PMs and BTC rise and fall in value and nobody can predict what will have been the best investment 100 years from now. For many people (ref: this ZH article) it appears the potential upside for BTC is greater than PMs in the medium term.
One of bitcoin's properties is that it has been and will always be intangible. If you can't wrap your head around that then BTC is probably not for you.
Gold isn't generally used for feeding, clothing, or sheltering people either. Mainly it's used for trading for the things that feed, clothe, and shelter people. Bitcoin is no different.
bitcoin is completely different.
You need an established grid of wired & wireless networks, computers (modern phones count) & electricity for bitcoin.
You need gold to BUILD & rebuild all that before you can even begin to use bitcoin.
For that reason bitcoin does me no good.
In a Mad Max scenario where the entire world infrastructure has collapsed, I agree that gold would probably make a better money than bitcoins. Of course, in that situation, I'd rather be packing PB than either AU or AG anyway . . .
You'd need all combined because if you try to live as a robber/ predator only using the lead ... someone else with gold will buy more lead & alliances and hunt you down.
Long-term you can't be a warlord, you can be a pillar of a community or very hidden.
Even those who get to war-lord status often don't last long for the same reasons.
ZH is full of so many idiotic "gold silver bitchezz" "preppers" who have no clue about what bitcoin or cryptocurrencies are about. Oh well, forget them, they are missing the boat.
btc's can't buy the boat, or passage onto one, or a destination.
Serious problem with shitcoinz.
You mean that boat filled with greater fools? Nah.
Interesting subject.
1.) how did the fed catch pirate-dread, 'he gave out his real gmail...'
2.) how did the fed get pirate-dreads 'keys' to his btc's? He was using the same password (key-chain) everywhere, it was found on servers seized by the fed's
We're supposed to believe this guy was fucking real? maybe he was smoking too much product? but he certainly didn't understand the 'system'
the 'key's should have been on encrypted home devices, and he should have never been using a gmail even in real-life as this is 100% NSA 24/7 spying,
The entire subject of BTC is like morons, selling shit to morons, ... its like they want to get caught.
Pirate Dread " I want to hire someone to murder", FBI, "Sure I can arrange the hit, but we must talk on gmail
, dread "Ok, no problem', hell lets chat on skype so you can see my face too"
It's all too fucking like 'made for the msm'
The internet was developed by the DOD, its their fucking trojan horse, if & when the 'resistance' learns to work off the grid, it will not be on the 'system' back bone.
Clear misunderstanding. Once gold has this "price" the paper won't have any & gold will be directly exchanged in hand for goods in hand or services on the spot.
BTC may not even have a grid to use where it's needed most so that leaves gold (and silver).
In those areas (and I expect to be in one) btc's fair value is zero.
Maybe http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-10/typhoon-death-count-surpasses-10000-people-walk-zombies-looking-food-martial-law-imm these people will buy food & shelter for repairs with bitcoin! oh wait, shitcoin doesn't work without a grid?
I guess it's not money then because you need materials bought with money to repair after a grid-down disaster.