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Well you buy what's working, right? Don't fight the Fed? Oh wait...
BTC just hit $670...
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BTC is a godsend for Bernanke and his buddies. Just think about it, at current prices the total BTC market is less than 1/10th of what the FED is pumping into the market each month, yet it generates enough attention to act as the perfect tool to crush any faith in alternatives for USD, stocks, bonds, or whatever else Bernanke wants you to own. When the hammer falls and all the greedy fuckers who are scrambling to also get on the BTC hype train lose everything, it'll teach the rest of the sheeple a lesson about what happens when you think you found an alternative to fiat and its derivatives.
This is not even considering the fact that I'm 100% convinced any BTC trade using the internet is traceable and it's just a matter of flipping the kill switch to effectively kill all viable forms of electronic BTC trade in an instant.
"Flipping the kill switch" means shutting down the internet. Given that the entire global supply chain is now dependent on the internet, we would have much bigger problems to deal with, than BitCoins.
Kind of like using a hand grenade to kill a fly. Not likely.
You don't think TPTB would be able to completely fuck up the BTC market by other means besides shutting down the entire internet? I'm not saying they could make all kinds of BTC trade impossible, as you could always trade them offline, over some kind of darknet, or peer-to-peer using strong encryption and email. That doesn't matter though, the minute the greedy idiots speculating on BTC can't withdraw their BTC in regular fiat by clicking a button on a website, and can't trade it for anything valuable without going underground, the BTC market will be dead.
You don't seriously think BTC went from $100 to $600 in weeks because everyone is using it to trade actual stuff or services, right?
"Kind of like using a hand grenade to kill a fly. Not likely."
Apparently you're not aware of military strikes...
When it's got to do with a "national emergency" NOTHING is off the table.
TPTB have been pushing for another Internet that's separate from all us peons. How's your math?
parabolic mania phase
http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price
What goes up parabolically usually has a tendency to fall at the same rate. Just look at the pump-and-dump crowd.
Manias don't go parabolic, they plummet much, much faster than they climb. Stop-loss trading helps ensure the volume on the downswing is much greater. With no short-selling of bitcoins, there is no demand-floor in place, either.
Except you just know SOMEONE has gone long BTC, using leverage. Which theoretically means they have to pay back the amount owed, at some point. Then again, we are dealing with Wall St banks, City of London, the Fed... And they aren't exactly known for following rules.
What is the intrinsic value of a bitcoin?
Same as USD's, or...stock certs, bonds, treasuries, CDS's, CDO's, etc.
Proving the point
I am willing to purchase bitcoins and exchange them for silver or gold discounted by 20%. Since bitcoin rises like a hundred dollars a day now, bitbugs should jump at this opportunity. Unload your PMs to me, get digital currency in return.
I am willing to purchase bitcoins if it will buy me Benny's head on a pike.
I'll take Yellen for 1000
What is the intrinsic value of anything?
I know fresh virgin pink pussy will always have a high value in any terms. Just ask Marc Faber.
You haven't met his wife, have you?
Take a seasoned whore over that any day
what is the intrinsic value of:
food when you can't find any ?
air when you are drowning ?
a nickel when you see one on the sidewalk and don't bother to pick it up ?
bitcoin when the internet is blocked/segregated or just plain shut down ?
...a bitcoin when you need buy something over the Internet without the government confiscating it.
Goverment can confiscate anything they want, regardless of payment method - that's what trade regulations are there for...
And if you can buy it with btc, you can buy it with anything else of value - like there wasn't illegal trading before btc and silkroad...
Could a Bitcoin get you out of Tacloban right now?
Sure, let me just plug my computer - oh, wait...
It is called proscription
Hey everyone, this guy's got it figured out.
Sell any company that makes money from credit cards, they're fucking PLASTIC, ZOMGWTFBBQ! When the Internet goes down with all electricity worldwide credit cards will be worth NOTHING! Is a dead end business model!
There's a subtle difference, and that's who is in charge, who is to profit (as is always the case). With credit cards it's the big banking institutions. Ah, the key word being "instutution," as in "institutionalized."
BTW - Folks can process credit card transactions off-line. Yeah, it sucks, but it can be done.
Maybe the practical use it has, when it has no other value?
E.g.: PMs have industrial use; paper currency has use as fuel (ask Germans...); btc have no existence, so their intrinsic value is precisely zero...
its ability to induce greedy morons for a finite period of time until there is a deficit of greedy morons.
If it offers a private means of exchange, that privacy ought to be worth something.
But isn't 'value' always extrinsic?
No. Period.
Argument by emphatic punctuation.
Is there a Latin phrase for that?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/great-rotation-bullion-bitcoin#...
"What is the intrinsic value of a bitcoin?"
The same as anything else: zero.
Value exists only in the minds of people. It is 100% subjective and context dependent.
Rothbard approves of this message.
Again, http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/great-rotation-bullion-bitcoin#...
Things do not possess value. Things possess utility, for which they might be valued. Gold has industrial utility, as you mention. Bitcoin has financial utility.
How much value is placed in those utilities is different for every person, and even the same person in different contexts. Right now you would be thrilled if I handed you a crate full of gold bars, but you might be slightly less enthused about it if you were drowning in the ocean when I did it.
Value=utility (as you just proved!). Economic utility, speculative utility, you-name-it utility. Thanks for playing - try again or exit?
No, utility is separate from value. Gold has utility in manufacturing, but the value of that to me is precisely zero, because I do not manufacture anything with gold.
Instead, the value of gold to me is related to its utility as a Thing People Will Trade For. Bitcoin is no different. Bitcoin has financial utility as a convenient, easy method of settling accounts anywhere in the world with no middle man. I value such a thing.
You may not value such a thing, and that's alright, but that doesn't make bitcoin "inherently" value-less.
Utility=usefulness; useful=valuable; no usefulness, no value.
People only trade gold/whatever when they have an use for it, either practical or as store of wealth/speculation. Btc, is an abstraction, so theorectically perfect for trading (no diversion of useful resources), but in practice is all the opposite of what's advertised:
There's things you just can't do without gold/silver/oil/etc; that's their intrinsic value - the value they retain independently of their speculative/financial value, even if that drops to zero. That's entirely independent of whether they're valuable for you or me individually.
Under your definition, bitcoin has value because it is useful as a medium of exchange.
1. It is absolutely a trade currency. The computer I'm typing this on now was purchased in bitcoins.
2. Account balances are public knowledge (it is a public ledger, after all). Who owns each account is easily made untraceable.
3. Liquidity will get solved as the market grows.
4. Any transaction can be sent with any (or no) fee. The higher the fee you choose to send, the quicker your transaction will be processed. Buying from an exchange is not the same thing as sending a bitcoin transaction.
5. It's still decentralized, meaning there exists no central authority as a weak spot in the protocol.
There are things you can't do without bitcoins too. Without bitcoins, can you send an amount of a finite currency anywhere in the world electronically without a middleman to stop you?
We're still talking about intrinsic value, right?
Remove all the gold from the world and you have a (unsurmountable) problem; for one, to buy a computer, let alone with btc - in fact, you wouldn't even have btc at all, to start with... there's its intrinsic value: its intrinsic qualities make it so you can't avoid it right now, whether you're aware of it or not.
Btc, otoh, could disappear suddenly, and it wouldn't be missed for anything, even silkroad. The world wouldn't grind into an halt and no one except those suckered into it would miss it. At most it would be replaced by yet another (as replaceable) currency.
Your isp and exchange are the middlemen. You can send it by mail, as it has always been, well before telecoms even existed - unless you're afraid that's unregulated, decentralized transactions...
+/u/bitcointip @Saro 2 internets verify
Ok, I'm getting a bit peeved by the recurrence of this question. Intrinsic value is the future income expected from an investment discounted to present value. The intrinsic value of bitcoin is... zero. The intrinsic value of dollars is ... zero. The intrinsic value of gold is ... zero. These are not "investments" in the traditional sense, they are assets. People work for, buy, and keep these assets because of the expected future value in trade. In other words, I hope that at some point in the future, 0.001 BTC will be worth a basket of groceries at my supermarket. I know right now ~3 BTC = 1 oz of gold.
EDIT: That was like, so yesterday. 1 oz gold = 2.31 BTC.
Here's a serious question for bitcoin-istas - do you honestly think that if bitcoin ever went mainstream that world governments would just let it be without monitoring and taxing bitcoin transactions? Leaving the "worthless" Americans aside, the Euros tax everything of value. Hell, the French will probably tax their citizens when they take a crap pretty soon. Socialist governments can't survive without tax revenue.
And yet in the bitcoin world, you are going to be able to take away the governments ability to survive by starving them of tax revenue and they will do nothing?
I recommend that if you do make a purchase or income through bitcoins, you should self-report and pay the appropriate taxes as applicable. Render on to Caesar, what is Casesar's. I would not advise anyone to evade taxes.
Question for you: How did governments survive before they had computers to track the populace's finances, not to mention paycheck withholding?
Well, tariffs or head-taxes mostly, but that isn't relevant to the question of bitcoin. Like I said earlier, the government plays dirty, right? Here's a scenario. They take in some bitcoin schlub, maybe even one of the heavy-hitters and tell him "We know you're dealing drugs. Give us your bitcoin passwords or we're going to send you to a military tribunal and you're going to jail for 50 years". Some bitcoiners will say "fuck off", but they only need one or two to cave in. If I understand, bitcoins have a history of all transactions on them. Is that right? They get a few bitcoins, they can track down basically the entire bitcoin community. And if you boys haven't been paying your taxes on your bitcoin capital gains, well, they're going to "Al Capone" your asses.
Lots of things can be deduced via pattern recognition. Given enough instnaces of something a farily decent statistical profile can be inferred. This is what the NSA does; they have a LOT of computing power and ability to pick through the trash and see what you've been "eating." Again, if it comes down to the Homeland's "security" then you better damned well believe that they'll look to put a stake through the heart of whatever it is that they feel needs to be killed. It's got nothing to do with what I do or don't want, it's got to do with the only thing I can put my faith in- LOGIC.
Dude, the info you are talking about has always been out in the open. Blockchain.info is a website with all that data you seek. Now ask why... Because no Bitcoiner trusts any other bitcoiner or centralized system. I need to be able trace a coin's full history to make sure it is not counterfeit.
That would be the financial value (or definition of) - the actual real intrinsic value is more like this: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/great-rotation-bullion-bitcoin#...
But all I do is fight the Fed!
If nobody is fighting the Fed, and if I believe I am going to outlive the Great Perversion -- then fighting the Fed is the best long-term game in town. And virtuous!
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. Bubble with "long-term promise".
and the intrinsic value of a bitcoin is?......
and the value of a bitcoin will be what when the internet is cut-off by TPTB ?
The same as any other company which relies on the Internet. Yet I do not see you making the same prognostications of doom against every e-tailer out there. Lets see some hate for apple, amazon, time-Warner, Verizon, any company posting a profit from Internet related services or sales.
FFS WTF is a dollar bill worth in the Philippines right now? Nothing next to a can of baby formula.
If you have to resort to an end of the world scenario to debunk something then your argument is worth about as much as the probability of your doomsday, I.e. almost nothing.
Remind us again why art has any value whatsoever? Or any company that uses electricity? Only things of value in Mad Max scenarios should have a price above zero at all times, all else should be considered already a dead market, right?
My argument against BTC is just that a person should buy low and sell high. And that means now is a time for selling, or holding. But not buying. Meanwhile, the price of gold is being suppressed, so that has to be taken into account.
"Companies" are tied into the credit clearing houses. All of this is institutionalized, which means that there's a LOT invested in keeping that system functioning. And it is this reason why a segregated internet has been being worked on for a while now: it all makes sense when you look at the way existing laws are managed- one set for one group and one set for the rest- the Internet as we currently know it will be nothing but a sandbox for the peons, and in the event of any threats to TPTB it'll get locked down in a heartbeat.
what BTC up what something like 200$ or 50% from yesterday?
Unless those bitcoin sellers are taking delivery, nothing changes.
That is when it gets interesting when enough people try to cash out into dollars or yuans or whatever and they can't settle the 'contracts' in a timely manner. Right now this is nothing more than momentum chasing going on. There are more tests to come just to see how resilient this thing really is.
With Mt. Gox withdrawal limits, a bank run on btc should be a scene to behold... and put fiat capital controls to shame. And lets not even talk about btc bid-offer spread/trading fees, compared to fiat, pm in banks.
The real test is when everyone who is trying to bypass the swift system with their accounts over at the Chinese BTC exchange try to cash out too much too fast. Follow the volume of transactions...
Mt Gox is less than 10 percent of the trading volume, and everyone (should) already be aware that you (basically) cannot extract USD from Mt. Gox at this time.
With a proper exchange, the buyer must have deposited X amount of their currency (dollars, yuan, whatever) into their account, and the seller must have deposited Y amount of bitcoins. When the exchange occurs, the money changes accounts on the exchange, while simply moving about on the paperwork at the exchange's bank. There should never be any fractional reserving or margin. When a withdrawal is requested, it simply comes out of the exchange's account.
If your exchange has a daily limit of $3000, be prepared in advance to be limited to only taking out $3000 per day. If there is 3 to 5 business days for the old-school banking system to process a simple transaction, you should be aware of this in advance.
All of this is more in general, since the price action is being driven by China, and I have no idea what is going on over there.
That's nothing but capital controls, which btc was supposed to shelter/free you from...
Bitcoin frees you from capital controls, it is the other currency you sell bitcoins for that have the capital controls on them. The trade-off with bitcoins is, you are taking on volitility risk.
exactly but these old kooks can't figure that out...
no reason to be nice to them.. they've been saying BTC will die all year
No, it's controlled by the exchanges - you can easily/cheaply trade large amounts of fiat for fiat/commodities/whatever, even internationally. Volatility comes on top of that.
You can buy stuff with USD, sure. But what if you have piles of Yuan, Argentinian Pesos, or Venezualan Bolivars you need to unload? Also, not so easily. It takes several business days for wire transfers to be reviewed and approved. Plus the fees can be horrendous.
Nothing easier: if you want to keep there, just buy anything that will hold its value; if you want to move it out, just buy anything you can take with you and sell/store abroad...
Btc bid-ask spread not cheap either; limits on cashing out of btc also work against it. Transfer fees within EU, up to 50000k = 5 € for me, at the counter.
Does healthcare.gov work yet? Private industry and capitalists are revolutionizing banking, creating industry, and innovating. These are all things that Obama hates.
Someone put acid in my fucking egg mcmuffin this morning. Only explanation.
WTF? What has bitcoin have to do with bullion? India is the biggest buyer of billion and the smallest buyer of bitcoin Who buys bitcoin with bullion?
Bitcoin and bullion are both votes of no confidence in fiat currencies Nobody switches from bullion to bitcoin - nobody with half a brain
Let both bitcoin and bullion rise to the sky.
I sold a silver bar, put 400 euro into btc, and in two weeks is now worth 1000 euro. The rest of my silver has fallen 5% in the same time.
Now convert your BTC to Euro and buy more silver :D
Exactly!!! Finish the drill. Save in PMs because when fraud is the status quo, possession is the law.
dead money is dead money even if you can 'hold it'
I'll wait till its worth 5k, then sell 1k of btc a month to pay the bills, then I can stop selling silver each month. Silver is too heavy for me anyway, can't carry it off. Platinum is the next investment.
Hopefully, in the meantime, it won't happen to it the same as to AAPL to 1000 (or BBRY)
Amazing isn't it? There are none so blind as those who won't see.
Bitcoin Rises Over $500 - Its Collapse Will Start The New Gold Leg Up
We have all classic signs of the Bubble in Bitcoin growing very fast and its collapse will ignite another Bull Leg in Gold. Here where we take Bitcoin as the very serious and positive groundbreaking development in the modern financial history. Nothing less than that. The magnitude and speed of its appreciation are showing that this moment of the real FIAT currencies alternatives can be very close now.http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/bitcoin-rises-over-500-its-collapse....
How many people really understand bitcoin?
My rule of thumb is if I don't understand it, I don't buy it.
How many people really understand gold?
Bitcoin? It's a Twitter-like, P2P version of PayPal!
See, it's easy. Install this app and you're good to go!
A perfectly sound rule of thumb.
But what people around here seem to forget is that they also shouldn't disparage it until they do understand.
One question: What's China stacking, Bitcoin or gold?!
Condoms.
Buttcoins.
"What's China stacking, Bitcoin or gold?!"
Answer: everything they can get their hands on. Real Estate, factories, copper, iron, gold, bitcoins. Resource companies in Canada. mineral rights all over the world. A good chunk of Africa.
Damn, this really put the nail in gold's coffin. Bernanke is a genius gotta say.
Wake me up when gold hits $1000 oz. so I can back up the truck.
Is it possible there will be an inflection poin once Moore's law is realised and then the mad world of quantum entaglement can do its 'thang?
Moore's law is bullshit. Computer power no longer doubles every 18-24 months. Do we have 12 Ghz PC's today? No, we do not, but by Moore's law we should have them.
GHz =/= computing power - just saying...
Moore's Law is about number of transistors per square millimeter or whatever unit of space you want to use. The increase in clockrate due to die shrink ended quite a while ago; however, instead of a 12 GHz computer, we can have a 4 GHz computer with 4 cores that can do work equivelent to a 16 GHz computer, so the effect is similar, but with far more scalability and efficiency.
Right, but what you're saying - parallel processing - was not the essence of Moore's Law when it was first proposed. Parallel computing makes nonsense out of it because you could string a billion processors together and claim Moore's Law is valid.
Moore's Law is interpreted in various ways - there are people who apply it to computer processor speed (GHz) and there are those who apply it to technology in general. The idea that anything will continue to double every two years is ridiculous.
"Moore's law is the observation that, over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law
Obviously, in a finite universe, no real (as opposed to virtual) thing can grow or shrink indefinitely. In fact, we are probably hitting the wall of diminishing returns on semiconductors now, where the cost of another die-shrink is so great compared to the benefits, that the time to pay off the investment is almost too much. Other innovations will have to be made, or we will reach a plateau.
I'm not rotating out of gold, I've just been adding bitcoin to my diversified anti-Fed portfolio. I don't know of a single person that's actually sold gold for bitcoin (but I know people have exchanged bitcoin for gold.)
I don't think this is a great rotation so much as either massive effort on the part of TPTB to keep gold down ahead of some sort of trouble, or TBTF / bullion banks selling paper due to distress (remember, we saw gold spike down hard like the past 2-3 months prior to the 2008 collapse as well.)
Since the FED relies on monopoly of currency, you have to wonder if Bernanke supporting bitcoin means the FED is behind bitcoin. Perhaps to smooth the usd collapse and reign over people for another 100 years with this virtual currency...
The senators are supporting it, since when does the government support something that takes away their power(money) and control?
They must be in it up to their eyeballs if they are publicly supporting a digital currency over the USD or the use of bankster plastic for a fee.
TPTB don't want any currency they can't inflate. BTC is their kryptonite.
Exactly I wouldn't be rotating out of metals. They have always been a long term hedge. That is not changing bitcoin mania or not. Crypto-currency is too early to call if this is just momentum chasing that ends badly when too many people try to cash out at once with the combination of some major money exchangers being caught short and naked at the same time or if it is a good long term hedge against fiat issued by governments/central banks. Bitcoin regardless of what anyone else says is still fiat since it requires trust and the trust is that it's face value is not easily manipulated or it's ability as a digital medium of exchange is not easily compromised.
Besides didn't the Tyler(s) write off bitcoin as dead not that long ago....
The next major test is coming up. Timing is the key.
It wouldn't surprise me if Bitcoin is a creation of the TPTB. One step closer to a global currency and one step closer to a digital currency held on a RFIP chip.
A anonymous currency they can't steal through inflation? They'd have to be much stupider than I already think they are to rig up their own noose.
Pseudonymous. The blockchain is a ledger of every transaction made -- if they can connect you to an address they will have a complete history of your spending habits. Whole bunch of spies like that idea.
Yes, it's anti-inflationary, but since we know the USD is blowing up within 5-10 years, why not get in on the Next Big Thing ahead of someone else?
I'm a bitcoin advocate, but I wouldn't dismiss that someone in the government backed its development. However, I also wouldn't dismiss that it got away from them or blew up in a way that was unanticipated.
It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a government backed project "got away for them or blew up in a way that was unanticipated."
Look I don't prentend to know the computer science behind Bitcoin, but I'm smart enough to know that nothing on the internet is anonymous (or anonymous for very long). A hack is always in development. The TPTB are already gaining control of the internet in general. I'm sure the NSA is already on top of hacking BitCoin's encryption.
As for anti-inflationary, wait until TPTB convince the Bitcoin users that there needs to be some sort of a central bank for Bitcon to keep it "stable". People wouldn't be that stupid? Well, it happened with gold. If they pull that off, they will have the ultimate scheme: a universal currency which is completely dependent on a technology they control.
I see the Internet control by NSA ending in two parts:
step 1: cyber-balkanization. Nations start firewalling their traffic, then on to using different protocols and hardware
step 2: point-to-point, friend-to-friend networking using entangled particles, so that you personally know all of the people who own all the nodes connected to yours, but do not know any of the nodes connected to your friends' nodes.
"As for anti-inflationary, wait until TPTB convince the Bitcoin users that there needs to be some sort of a central bank for Bitcon to keep it "stable"."
They'd have to change the protocol, which would cause a fork in the blockchain, essentially creating their own, brand-new virtual currency (FedCoinz?)
Maybe someone decided inflation had its days and it's time to move on to another level
Bingo!
You guys are nuts thinking bitcoin doesn't have potential. Just taking over a system like western union would make its market cap 55billion. An that's just for starters. Architecture for commerce is being built as we speak and it will be a looooonnnggg time before they unencrypt it. But by all means keep saving in regular dollars. Only a fool wouldn't see it's potential. I'm trading some - SOME NOT ALL- of my gold for bitcoin. Anyone with half a brain would be buying bit and lite coin webnames as well. Just passing by MasterCard and visa would save merchants 2% on transactions. That's HUGE!! We haven't even thought of everything yet.
I have a feeling the minute the use of bitcoin is seen crowding out the profits of Mastercard, Visa and AMEX it will be game over. Those banking institutions take a dim view of allowing any other form of "currency" getting their beak wet at their expense. It will be fine until this makes the MSM news and your doorman starts talking about bitcoin. At that point I would imagine "Game over for Bitcoin" would be the front page headlines. That is unless those in the government and banking players happen to be covertly behind bitcoin, then it will have been a missed opportunity for most not getting in on bitcoin below 300.
money launders and drug runners dont use visa dude
30 million Chinese are millionaires or more. Thats $30trl. They all want out. Do the math, If their facilitator of the trade (ie BTC exchange) just takes a few points, its billions in fees.
And not all will convert all to USD, some will keep their Bitcoin
Millionaires by what metric? The Yuan, the Bitcoin, the USD? You see the irony in calling them millionaires using the USD as the metric?
Just because 5 billion Chinese eat rice doesn't mean the rice market is the right place to be for financial gain or preservation.
"money lauder's and drug runners don't use visa dude." Not exactly the marketing motto to use when championing an asset, or at least I wouldn't think so.
I tend to find ways to shoot holes in my investment thesis before I buy. If I'm blindly wild about it and can't hear the negatives then from my personal experience I'm usually wrong in the long run, but that's just me.
Good luck to you sir.
You have the trade backwards. You are selling gold low and buying bitcoin high. I'm actually looking at doing the reverse either right now or in a little while. Might wait to see where things settle in the next week or two.
You can't stop it short of shutting down the internet. In that case it becomes a black market currency.... I hear the market cap for that market is in the trillions. Currency gets it's value from public acceptance, nothing more nothing less.
Bitcoin is the beta for a new internet standard. The internet was originally designed as a communcation network. It has morphed into a distribution network. They are going to when they re-write the protocol standards ultimately have a universal crypto-currency built into it. That is going to be your NWO cashless society that everyone is afraid of. It is not going to be bank based and I doubt local currencies will disappear either but that is going to be the one everyone accepts because it is the standard. Things like bitcoin and litecoin are nothing more than distribution crypto-currency solutions for communication specifc networks. Once the architecture evolves to a distribution network, bitcoin goes the way of the dinosaur.
http://named-data.net/2013/07/03/what-is-ndn/
The Named Data Networking (NDN) project aims to develop a new Internet architecture that can capitalize on strengths — and address weaknesses — of the Internet’s current host-based, point-to-point communication architecture in order to naturally accommodate emerging patterns of communication. The project studies the technical challenges that must be addressed to validate NDN as a future Internet architecture: routing scalability, fast forwarding, trust models, network security, content protection and privacy, and fundamental communication theory.
..
We are still a few years away but this is general direction and no one government or central bank is going to be able to stop this evolution in process.
What do you, work for bitcoin?
I agree with everything you say. It has excellent potential any fool can see that. My biggest problem is the political risk. The US government, unless it is covertly behind bitcoin doesn't take kindly to being left behind and I could see them, at least in the US market with many western allies going along making bitcoin illegal for whatever reason they want to invent only to bring to market "mintcoin" using the exact same bitcoin only difference would be under the control of the Fed.
Banksters getting bypassed, not being able to we their beak wet with bitcoin, have a tendency to get their way through legislation. Perhaps some politico's missed the bitcoin train, decide to make some noise to flash crash it in order to get their orders in at lows. I know nothing like that could possibly happen in our free market society so no worries really.
Bitcoin would be toast with 1 comment from the US government. The very notion that The Authority even glances at bitcoin with a hairy eyeball would send it "flash crashing" in an instant. Not sure that's where I want to be but that doesn't mean bitcoin is wrong. Just means I'm a nutless wonder when it comes to this sort of thing. Look what happens to the entire market the minute a "taper fart" hits the wires.
Um, the feds have already frozen the US assets of the then-largest BTC exchange, shut down silk road, and issued various confusing regulatory guidance that says all BTC users have to register as money transmitters.
BTC occasionally does crash, then it bounces back.
Here is the underlying problem with bitcoin since it is limited to a max amount of coins. The central banks have license to basically print as much money as they want. If they want to undermine the construct they just need shell companies and buyers to obfiscate what they are doing. They just need to keep buying up coins and not dumping them back on the market (though I doubt the can resist the temptation to dump a few here and there to gamble) to dry up supply. They can try to flood the market and crash the price but it has shown that it is resilient and will bounce back so the more likely strategy is to kill bitcoin you need to reach max coin first then keep buying up coins to kill demand by drying up the supply and/or dilluting the market with fiat ultimately deflating its value to 0 if you can't. They can control that end of the curve quite easily with an unlimited printing press operation. The ride up to peak coin not so much.
The irony is Bernanke and all these Central Banks and their ZIRP/NIRP policies are probably helping fuel the momentum chasing going on right now. When you starve the things you are trying to control what would a person with common sense expect to happen, those fucking things are going to find a new food source to keep from starving to death. Apparently educated morons don't understand these things. The more education they have the less they seem to understand.
I thought that had more to do with illegal activity occuring and bitcoin was not the focus. When you see legal activity being "bullied" by The Authority due to the use of bitcoin, then see what happens.
For all I know bitcoin could be a "trial balloon" being used to test the notion of total cashless society. Could actually be some "black ops" that is run by the CIA in order to watch response of the digital currency under different circumstances. Could be a ploy to lure "goldbugs" out and turn them in to "bitcoin bugs".
Then again it could just be what it is appears to be. That would be amazing, something being what it appears to be, nothing more, nothing less. Only time and risk taking will write this story. "Cheerleading" and or "denier's" won't write this story I don't think.
Whatever the case it will be interesting. I don't know a thing about bitcoin. How do profits from the buying and selling bitcoin get treated by the IRS. Is it treated the same as it would be for any other currency trading? Actually the IRS handling of bitcoin profits/losses may be the "tell" needed to decide the true feelings of the US government as opposed to any jawboning statements made. Sort of "actions speak louder than words" test.
Th largest buyers of BTC are Chinese in China. Why would they care what the inept US government has to say? You have to be kidding. They hate the USD and now they have a way out of it.
I suppose if you are living under Chinese rule then all is well. From all accounts the Chinese have been the largest buyers of gold and US Treasuries for much longer than bitcoin has been around. I'm not a cheerleader nor a denier of bitcoin, I'm more or less asking questions and looking at potential negative angles. Thanks for the lesson.
Not so good for btc - trading in China could definitely be killed a flash.
Keep smashing the price.... I'm looking foward to seeing the Comex and LBMA implode come December. Expect more takedowns, on no news, all the way to the 29th of November. The cartel is desperate. I'll be saving my powder until then, and pull the trigger on a nice sack full o'phyzz for Christmas. Ho! Ho! Ho! Bitchez!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the COMEX cannot implode; if they run out of gold, they can simply settle in dollars. The only people who would be screwed was anyone standing for delivery and expecting to get gold.
This is the top for BTC, a congressional hearing is peak media.
I'm expecting a big double top and a long tail.
I'm expecting it to fall upon media buzz die off as well... but it will not collapse into dust and it will not fail out of existence. Not even close. The fall may not even be as much as people think.
It will have a long tail as there will be people who bet their whole lives worth on it.
Google "Pump and Dump cycle" and look at it next to a BTC chart.
When something is rising 20% a day it has lost all basis in reality.
I will still stick with gold. If bitcoin is a distraction from gold then is does some of the feds heavy lifting. Who is to say the fed is not buying up botcoins and bidding the price up, just to crash it to the floor and teach everyone a lesson for buying virtual money. If the fed is ok with this then enjoy the ride. Just know when to get off the runaway train.
OK, I'll admit it. I don't understand any of this bitcoin bullshit & how it works, etc.
Its tulip bulb mania.
Person A pays 5000$ to build a computer to mine a bitcoin
Person A sells bitcoin into circulation on exchange
Person B gives person A their USD'S in exchange for bitcon
Price of Bitcoin goes up
Person B sells to Person C for profit
As long as there are new Persons C'S entering the market the price will rise.
"real transactions" for products taking place in bit coin is minimal its tulip mania.
That sounds so ponzi like. You gotta use more fancy language and technical terms to bamboozle the masses or they won't get in.
All those grads from the IT campuses of the world need jobs. This is their chance. BTC sales are the new personal life insurance sales.
Its a ponzi scheme, it doesn't get more simple than that.
The only difference is, the checks ponzi is writing can be exchanged for drugs, bootleg products being exported from china, and other illegal activities.
Bitcoin is essentially private drug cartel money for the most part.
People are driving the price of bitcoin up based on Mania, its clear as day to see............ but who am I to judge? people are allowed to buy whatever they want, it ain't my business.
Personally im torn between getting in on bitcoin to try and ride the wave before it crashes and burns or just exploiting the small dips in metals.
The entire economy and all the markets are in twilight zone mode nowadays.........bad news is good news because its an excuse to print, bitcoins are going up and people are buying because "they are going up", people always wait for something to go up in price before they buy, and thats usually right before it crashes and burns.
I think bitcoin is going to peak at around 1500~2000$ and then people will really just sell off and it will scare new 'investors" after it crashes down to say 600 again.
You aren't really "investing" in anything when you buy gold or silver or bitcoins.
You are speculating or attempting to save in a medium that doesn't get debased by central banks.
Really you are better off using the money to perform some kind of profitable economic activity, but the markets are broken and reward speculation right now..... and the economy is soo bad that the only way to make money is to gamble................. you will have winners and lossers rich and poor to the extreme.
The economy is broken, there is no economic growth, all that is happeening is wealth is changing hands as people take bets.
Its really bad
and its going to end badly for a lot of people, it almost makes me want to cry because with this kind of economy a lot of people are going to suffer.
Parabolic moves overshoot on the downside when the crash occurs. I predict bitcoin falls to $100-200 level and then has a series of dead-cat bounces.
In order for that to happen all the drug cartels, CIA funds, money launderers, terrorist money, political contributions etc etc has to stop moving.
Two predictions:
either
1. USA studies this for a long time
or
2. other countries ignore USA if USA regulates
They all USD, and Wall St banks, not BTC. WTF?
While I agree this sudden surge out of China is pure mania, and will result in a massive pullback, I doubt it will scare too many people out, since this has happened pretty much every year now, with a big rise and sudden drop.
This, however, is false: "real transactions" for products taking place in bit coin is minimal its tulip mania."
No. of Transactions: 77592
Estimated Transaction Volume (USD): $499,089,592.66
Number of Transactions, excluding top 100 popular addresses: 67357
from http://blockchain.info/charts Keep in mind that the exchanges will be popular addresses, and bitcoin only needs to undergo a transaction when being sent into or out of an exchange, the trades at the exchange typically happen within the exchanges records, without actually moving the coins.
That's $500 million in transactions, compared to a $7 Billion Market Cap. The volume in transactions for goods and services is steadily growing, although certainly not +700% in the last 60 days to justify the increased exchange rate.
As Asia will be the next financial center of the world and they place a high value in the PMs, I will continue to buy PMs. Targeting the beginning of the year for my next purchase. Armstrong is saying $1000 or even $900 1st quarter of next year, and then the metals will begin a slow steady rise into a bull market. He said that dips should be bought once this next phase begins. The days of the US making the rules is slowly ending, better to bet against corruption than to sacrifice one's principles and march in line like sheep.
Not sure if Armstrong will be correct in that kind of a drop or not...but last time gold was passing by 1000, silver was around 16.50...coincidentally enough a 60:1 ratio just about where we're at right now. Actually right now we're at 62:1 or so.
I'd love to pick up phyzz silver at that price, but with cost of production being somewhere around 24/oz it sure is hard to imagine silver being pushed that low...supply would be wiped out and I think we would see premiums in silver as well as gold skyrocket to record highs.
That's my assumption/opinion, and so while supplies are good right now and premiums are still in the "normal" range then I have no problem buying now around 20/oz rather than waiting for the insanity of something in the 16.xx area where we'll hardly be able to find any, and if we do we'll be waiting weeks for delivery and we'll be paying premiums so high that the cost will probably be around what we're paying now or possibly much higher for readily available phyzz silver right now anyway.
just my humble opinion...fire away! lol ;-)
Why people are listening to Marty Armstrong on gold now is just so fucking bizarre.
The dude has lost his marbles.
Because he's one of the few people who were talking about a major correction to sub $1300/oz level in 2011 when everyone was laughing at him. He and a few others have been right.
The funny thing about ZH is that so many people think truth needs to conform to their ideologies and positioning which is, in fact, somewhat lacking in marbles also.
You forget what Marty said before that when he was still in prison? Yeah, I guess your memory isn't very good either.
I don't care either way, was simply commenting on your question as to why people listen to him. I know the true value of hard assets, I know the risk and supply/demand dynamics within the BTC markets and I don't live in the past, subsequently I'm enjoying the ride. I also haven't listened to what anyone in the ZH programming/comments sections/echo chamber/ has had to say for some time and not about to start again now.
What a great buying opportunity (on VirtEx anyway) while the "authorities" speaking at the Senate hearings scare the weak hands.
Martin Armstrong? Never trust a guy who says he built a computer than can tell the future.
Gold going to 1k may happen, but pretending Armstrong has some special foresight is foolish.
Once Shanghai is fully up and running as the new depository for gold we should begin to see prices being set in Asia, not London/NY. That will end the West's domination of the paper gold market. Gold/silver will then reset to more realistic levels ($2500/oz?). Bitcoin may secure a place as a currency that is useful on the internet but there will still be fiat currency and gold/silver as a means of measurement of true value and as a store of wealth. I doubt most of the world will decide to trade in their gold/silver for bitcoin electronic bits....even if they were capable of doing so. Btw I am not against bitcoin but I worry about it being so dependent on electronic technology......and potentially subject to control by the powers-that-be. Anything that lives in cyberspace is potentially subject to such control.
Armstrong's been strongly mistaken for quite some time, perhaps even misleading.
Gold won't hit 1000 USD and gold hasn't been in a bear market. It's in a bull market now & has been since 2001.
FUCK YOU BERNANKE!
FUCK YOU JANET YELLEN!
FUCK YOU SUPER MARIO!
FUCK YOU ABE!