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Killing The "We Paid Our Taxes; We Earned Our Benefits" Social Security Ponzi Meme
Submitted by Gary Galles of the Ludwig von Mises Institute,
“We paid our Social Security and Medicare taxes; we earned our benefits.” It is that belief among senior citizens that President Obama was pandering to when, in his second inaugural address, he claimed that those programs “strengthen us. They do not make us a nation of takers.”
If Social Security and Medicare both involved people voluntarily financing their own benefits, an argument could be made for seniors’ “earned benefits” view. But they have not. They have redistributed tens of trillions of dollars of wealth to themselves from those younger.
Social Security and Medicare have transferred those trillions because they have been partial Ponzi schemes.
After Social Security’s creation, those in or near retirement got benefits far exceeding their costs (Ida Mae Fuller, the first Social Security recipient, got 462 times what she and her employer together paid in “contributions”). Those benefits in excess of their taxes paid inherently forced future Americans to pick up the tab for the difference. And the program’s almost unthinkable unfunded liabilities are no less a burden on later generations because earlier generations financed some of their own benefits, or because the government has consistently lied that they have paid their own way.
Since its creation, Social Security has been expanded multiple times. Each expansion meant those already retired paid no added taxes, and those near retirement paid more for only a few years. But both groups received increased benefits throughout retirement, increasing the unfunded benefits whose burdens had to be borne by later generations. Thus, each such expansion started another Ponzi cycle benefiting older Americans at others’ expense.
Social Security benefits have been dramatically increased. They doubled between 1950 and 1952. They were raised 15 percent in 1970, 10 percent in 1971, and 20 percent in 1972, in a heated competition to buy the elderly vote. Benefits were tied to a measure that effectively double-counted inflation and even now, benefits are over-indexed to inflation, raising real benefit levels over time.
Disability and dependents’ benefits were added by 1960. Medicare was added in 1966, and benefits have been expanded (e.g., Medicare Part B, only one-quarter funded by recipients, and Part D’s prescription drug benefit, only one-eighth funded by recipients).
The massive expansion of Social Security is evident from the growing tax burden since its $60 per year initial maximum (for employees and employers combined). Tax rates have risen and been applied to more earnings, with Social Security now taking a combined 12.4 percent of earnings up to $113,700 (and Medicare’s 2.9 percent combined rate applies to all earnings, plus a 0.9 percent surtax beyond $200,000 of earnings).
Those multiple Ponzi giveaways to earlier recipients created Social Security’s 13-digit unfunded liability and Medicare’s far larger hole. And despite politicians’ repeated, heated denials, many studies have confirmed the results.
One recent study of lifetime payroll taxes and benefits comes from the Urban Institute. For Medicare, they calculated that (in 2012 dollars) an average-wage-earning male would get $180,000 in benefits, but pay only $61,000 in taxes — “earning” only about one-third of benefits received. A similarly situated female does even better. The cumulative “excess” benefits equal $105 trillion, with net benefits increasing over time.
The Urban Institute’s calculations revealed a different situation for Social Security. An average-earning male who retired in 2010 will receive $277,000 in lifetime benefits, $23,000 less than his lifetime taxes, while for females, their $302,000 in lifetime benefits approximates their lifetime taxes. And things are getting worse. By 2030, that man will be “shorted” 16 cents (10 cents for women) of every lifetime tax dollar paid.
While those results resoundingly reject “we earned it” rhetoric for Medicare, the Social Security results, with new retirees getting less than they paid in, could be spun as “proving” Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme. However, that would be false. The reason is that Medicare is still in its expansion phase, as with Medicare Part D, piling up still bigger future IOUs. However, Social Security has essentially run out of new expansion tricks, although liberal groups are pushing to apply Social Security taxes to far more income as one last means of robbing those younger to delay the day of reckoning. That simply means that we are being forced to start facing the full consequences of the redistribution that was started in 1935. That is, the current bad deal Social Security offers retirees is just the result of the fact that it has been a Ponzi scheme for generations, and someone must get stuck “holding the bag.”
In fact, perhaps the best description of the current Social Security and Medicare situation comes from Henry Hazlitt, long ago, in Economics in One Lesson:
Today is already the tomorrow which the bad economist yesterday urged us to ignore. The long-run consequences of some economic policies may become evident in a few months. Others may not become evident for several years. Still others may not become evident for decades. But in every case those long-run consequences are contained in the policy as surely as the hen was in the egg, the flower in the seed.
Social Security and Medicare’s generational high-jacking has become “the third rail of politics” in large part because seniors want to believe that they paid their own way. But they have not. They have only paid for part of what they have gotten. The rest has indeed been a Ponzi scheme. And as Social Security is already revealing, the future cannot be put off forever, however much wishful thinking is involved. Some are already being forced to confront the exploding pot of IOUs involved, and it will get much worse.
The supposedly “most successful government program in the history of the world,” according to Harry Reid, has turned seniors into serious takers. The fact that some of them are now starting to share the pain caused by those programs does not contradict that fact. It just shows the dark side of the most successful Ponzi scheme in the history of the world.
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no matter what TBTB want, it make sense that both are occuring as money sloshes toward the short end of everything.
Sorry, but it isn't insurance. Insurance implies a contractual obligation. There is no contractual obligation with Social Security. There is only a statuatory demand that you and your employer pay into it.
No sitting Congress is bound by any act of a previous Congress. Any sitting Congress may eliminate this program if the President signs the bill. A voice vote would do the trick if the pols don't want their names attached to that solution.
As to SS being a Ponzi scheme, well of course it is. It was invented by politicians. But even the second-rate mind of FDR would rebel at how brazenly it has been abused. He really believed a "lock box" would keep politicians' hands away. He really believed one's SS number was not to be used for identification (so it was kept private), just as SS cards used to be graven boldly with the words "Not to be used for identification purposes", OWTTE. Politicians are liars. Give them more power and they will tell you more lies.
Why did SS become a Ponzi scheme? In no small part because the money was never actually invested except in the lowest-return (non-marketable) debt instruments of the US government. And even that was a charade since all the money was spent on pork by the politicians and turned into debt. Had the money actually been invested using guidelines of ordinary pension plans, it would have returned (on average) 6% over the lifetime of the pensioner. Instead, it persistently returned less than 2%, which would get the manager of a real pension fund fired for incompetency.
So while it's entirely true that seniors today are "taking out" way more than they "put in", they have also been robbed of reasonable return on monies they (and their employers) contributed. Politicians spent it all because they knew it was virtually interest-free debt and they would be long out of office on fat pensions of their own when the cumulative debt crisis eventually came crashing down. Demographics are very predictable. Eventually the boomers would hit the retirement wire and the entire scheme would be revealed as a fraud. This was predictable by the mid-60's.
"Progressives" of today should please at least not embarrass themselves by shedding giant crocodile tears over a failed program created and spent dry by "progressives" they deeply admire who came before them. Once a thief, always a thief. Some go to jail. Others run for Congress. The rest vote them into office.
NOTE: if you're looking for money in the budget to cover expenses, consider taking the US out of the business of never ending war as a "jobs" program.
Wow are their actuarial tables pretty shitty or what?
If you talk about Social Security you hate people. Bet that will make the young ones pay up.
If you are black racism is your friend.
I used to think of Social Security as insurance, but if you think about it, "insurance" is where only a small portion of people receive payout, and where the majority do not. In the case of Social Security, everyone gets paid out. So it is definitely not "insurance". No insurance would survive continuous 100% payout.
Social Security is definitely an investment fund, that has been mismanaged...
Annuities are insurance vehicles. By prudent investment, they build greater value over time.
Everyone who has an annuity contract with an insurance company gets paid (else their inheritors if they die early). This is also true of privatized SS offered as an alternative in Chile. The question comes down to "whose money is it?" In the case of US SS, the money ultimately belongs to the state to do with as it pleases. In the case of real annuities governed by legal contract, the money ultimately belongs to private beneficiaries.
In the case of US SS, everyone does NOT get paid out. Only survivors who have attained the age of qualification and have applied for benefits. When they die (before or after receiving any benefits), their entire lifetime contribution reverts to the government-owned pot for distribution to other qualified claimants. (Spouses may qualify for a portion of that benefit, but only a portion.)
There is a keen difference between mismanagment and fraud. What the USG has committed is outrageous and continuing fraud, not occasional mismanagement.
If you vote, that's what you are voting for. Because if you vote, you are willfully consenting to whatever policy the USG undertakes -- even if you absolutely disagree with it.
"Most people have taken out way more than they have contributed to either SS or Medicare"
You will not find authority to back that assertion. Leave making up facts to the BLS...
"You will not find authority to back that assertion."
How unfortunate for you that you need an "authority" to help you discern truth from falsehood.
http://www.kearneyhub.com/news/local/now-individual-social-security-payouts-less-than-paid-in/article_5ab54474-dfec-11e1-a998-001a4bcf887a.html
They also forget to add in the interest that was accumulating over the lifetime. This article is just more divide and conquer.
Do we have to keep hearing about Ida? What an abuse of statistics.
Did we have a choice?
Tell you what, shut the whole gov't down and we can call it even.
Good comment. You're one of the few consistent voices of reason around here.
There is none.
Consider that right now, about 12% of 20 year olds will die before they reach the current retirement age (so their contributions will be used by others). With emerging problems in Medicine (antibiotic resistance, emergence of new infectious diseases (e.g. SARS, MERS-CoV, even new Influenza variants), there is very good reason to suppose that life expectancies in the future may well not be the "150 years ++" predicted by "Futurologists" in the early 1970's, for example -
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2012/09/doctors-warned-life-expectancy-could-go-down-and-it-did/ and
http://actionableforesight.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/have-we-hit-peak-life-expectancy-or-will-we-live-forever/ - note that life expectancy is dropping in the younger generations - for many reasons, of which non Insulin dependent diabetes is but one.
Employment has changed too. The days when your "job" provided exercise too have been replaced for a very significant majority by almost forced sedentary employment (the life of the "Cube Dweller"), with higher demands on "efficiency" and "performance" leading to psychological stress levels which were unseen in the days of more "traditional" rather than "Must be done NOW" employment.
When I first started paying FICA, I could fill my car for $2.20, now it costs $42. If I had been allowed to invest my FICA into gold, I wouldn't need SS or medicare.
blah, blah, blah . . .
And how many trillions have 'gone missing' from the Defense Dept ?
How many secret trillions went to banks, including those overseas ?
While the 'ants' fight over crumbs
Divide & Conquer works so well
do you have any idea how stupid your comment is....the ones who have plenty of money and do not need it are the ones who should be without it...it ain't much for most but to a large percent of those over 65 it is all they have and have no hope for anymore.....
You actually think that they received $1MM in benefits? Travel to any country in Asia and you can get basically same quality of care for 1/20th of the cost. Our inflated medical costs are at issure here.
Medicare aside ,myself and my employer paid 280K into SS ,my benifits will be about 18K which means I should deplete my "contributions in 15.5 years without interest .Do away with the max out part of SS contributions ,but you must raise payments to as well .........
(1)... i can't believe Krasting didn't write this article.
(2)... REMOVE the cap on earnings for SS. if you're making $113,000 plus per year, then it AIN'T gonna hurt your ass. (i know, i was one making more)
(3)... i think anger and revenge should be directly focused on the ones to BLAME, the GOVERNMENT and all it's crooks, past and present.
(4)... everybody should quit whining and learn to tie bowlines and other useful rope knots.
(5)... and lastly, please find a job, or work until you drop, cause i depend on that social security check to help offset my green fees every month.(sarc).
WTF!!
WHO IS THAT DOUCHE@
http://www.democratic-republicans.us/images/Albert-Thomas-LadyBird-LBJ-J...
Social Security is not, NOT insurance. This was determined in the supreme courts Flemming v. Nestor decision in 1960. The Court ruled that no such contract exists, and that there is no contractual right to receive Social Security payments. Payments due under Social Security are not “property” rights and are not protected by the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment. The interest of a beneficiary of Social Security is protected only by the Due Process Clause.
in·sur·ance[in-shoor-uhns, -shur-]
noun
1. the act, system, or business of insuring property, life, one's person, etc., against loss or harm arising in specified contingencies, as fire, accident, death, disablement, or the like, in consideration of a payment proportionate to the risk involved.2. coverage by contract in which one party agrees to indemnify or reimburse another for loss that occurs under the terms of the contract.
3. the contract itself, set forth in a written or printed agreement or policy.
4. the amount for which anything is insured.
5. an insurance premium.
An aside.
Where does having fertility treatment when you are 60 as part of your cover fit into the insurance equation? Or pre-natal care as a twentysomething male? Are they covered under a "Free Shit Army funding clause" in the smallprint of all those juicy new (significantlty more expensive) healthcare policies?
Obamacare - a huge stinking turd whichever direction you are sniffing from.
And yet, there is FICA.
OK - give me the $$$s contributed back and call it even... and fuck-off with the name calling. I have been paying in for over 42 years....
You voted for all the broken promises.
And they spent all your money on the other dumb shit you voted for.
Unfunded liabilities will simply not happen. They will not bankrupt the country they will never happen because there is nobody out there to buy enough Treasuries to pay for it. Not even the Fed.
The promises will simply be unpromised.
Anyone counting on any kind of national pension is a mug. It ain't gonna be there.
"You voted for all the broken promises.
And they spent all your money on the other dumb shit you voted for."
How on earth do YOU know that? Do your arms ever get tired painting w/such a broad brush?
The second part of what you said is true, but unfortunately clouded by unsupported assertions in the first part.
If you have ever voted for anyone in the past ninety years, you have voted for this mess. The current issues in the economy were not manufactured in the past few years, they are a culmination of ninety plus years of idiocy.
I know that because I can see all the dumb entitlements that have been passed through the legislature.
Did these people hold a gun to everyone's head to get into power?
No, they were elected. By you, the electorate. In large part because they promised to pass a lot of dumb entitlements.
Well I never signed my half of the bargain so I ain't paying you that money you are expecting. Fuck you and your selfish demands. You failed in your fiduciary duty as a voter. You voted for liars, hundreds of them.
Are you so delusional as to think that we really have choice in an election? 99% of candidates are rich and have absolutely no idea how most people live.
Yes you have a choice that's why the candidates clamour for preferance with empty promises.
A lot of old dudes have been promised my money and I'm here to tell them they can't have it. It's not theirs. I didn't sign that.
Sorry old dudes. Why did you think your politicians of yester year had any right to my money?
"I have been paying in for over 42 years...."
This is the crux of the problem. With all due respect @QQQBall, you have not paid into the system. You have been stolen from for over 42 years. The government has been stealing from you under the guise of it being a contribution. That's like the pastor of your church holding a gun to your head as the collection plate is passed to you and saying you must "contribute". Contributions are a voluntary act and there is nothing voluntary about Social Security or Medicare taxes.
Language is important. And as long as the government can convince us that we are 'contributing' to Social Security and other social welfare programs by way of immoral direct taxation then it is easier to feel entitled to them. This is why seniors keep using the phrase 'I paid into the system so I deserve to get my money back'. It assuages their conscience, makes it easier to justify taking money that is stolen from someone else. After all they say, people "contributed" (willingly) into the system.
They have redistributed tens of trillions of dollars of wealth to themselves from those younger. Social Security and Medicare have transferred those trillions because they have been partial Ponzi schemes.
While partially true, it has been the case FOR ALL OF US SINCE FDR instituted the POS, and then WHO opened up the SS TRUST FIND, to hands on GENERAL FUND?.Where it has been robbed blind and filled with WORTHLES GOV IOU's.
I am with the other dudes, screw you.Write this biatch a check for the hundreds of thousands I/WE PAID IN INVOLUTARILY, and we'll call it even.Until then, stop the HATE on folks that have been played by the same damn system your BITCHING about now.
WHY do you CONTINUEto insist on SLAMMING the wrong innocents?.As if WE HAD a choice!.
Thank you for this. Finally a succinct takedown of the idiotic "earned benefits" meme. You didn't earn jack squat. You voted for Republicans and Democrats for 40 years straight and expected young people to clean up after you. And now you have the gall to call young people lazy and ignorant.
Guess what, Baby Boomers? Young people don't need your bullshit financial system anymore. We have Bitcoin.
I didn't realize there were age limits on bitcoin.
There aren't, but older folks will be the last ones buying in. Right now they're still in the "it's too volatile, it's not backed by gold, it's a ponzi scheme" phase.
"Folks". The mark of the liar.
To be fair, there are many older people that see the utility in Bitcoin and many younger people who don't get it at all.
My freshman econ textbook told me gold was evil......but it didn't state why....and that was before Common Core.
I'm guessing it's because the NSA couldn't track it.....enter Bitcoins.
i am 57, but if i was younger i would look at the boomers and ask what were you thinking?
I know personally, i never wanted anything to do with the whole fucked up mess called s.s.
so if you are younger forgive the non-conformists as we didn't want the fucken thing either.
what we got is your dad's peice of shit, and now what? dad didn't plan so you got to pay for his lack of responsibility either way. OR say fuck off dad?!
SS wouldn't be so bad if it were allocated and properly managed. But the way it is, it's just another massive ponzi being gamed by a few.
I'm now 66 years old and my first BTC from 2011 is long gone. It was just a curiosity for me at the time and it was stashed in an online wallet site that is now gone. Not paying attention, I "left the keys in the car". Looking back (the proverbial hindsight), would have served me well. I still have a BTC account that is more protected. So... to the point, old "folks" do have an interest. So there.
Watching nationalist toilet paper trying to engage Bitcoin is painful. I almost feel sorry for these nationalist currencies.
It's almost like watching a squadron of biplanes trying to engage some modern fighter jets with sidewinder missiles. You want to tell them to stay grounded, tell them to not even bother getting into the air.
Do you really think Bitcoin is going to protect you from our government?
Yes, because I can leave the country with my wealth intact. You can't do that with gold or silver.
People have been smuggling gold for a very long time. Why do you think a 10 tola bar has rounded edges?
Try getting a cargo ship's non-English speaking captain to accept your family as stow-a-ways by showing him a USB drive allegedly containing your bitcoin wallet. The odds are much better that you will have no trouble with a few Krugerrands up front, and more when you arrive.
This is what happens when you try and do things the old fashioned way.
(And having $10,000 is considered "greed").
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/02/man-has-undeclared-10000-seized-...
Cash at a Canadian airport flying to Costa Rica isn't exactly apples to apples. That story is, however, an excellent illustration of where we are today.
Fortunately, I don't recall owning any gold, and would never think of leaving this bastion of liberty known as the USA.
Well perhaps not apples to apples but it does help exemplify the larger issues at hand. Cash can be sniffed, gold & silver are detected. Bitcoins are floating around in the cloud. And only a greedy person would want to move $10,000 (according to a welfare-system judge being paid $250,000/yr).
The Feds can brick your USB by cranking up their X-ray machine.
And so what if they do? All of my important files are backed up and encrypted at various locations + the cloud. My currency is in the block chain, not a usb stick.
Sounds complicated.
I also have encrpted files (O.K.,mostly porn), but I'm not stupid enough to think someone will exchange real items like food or medicine or even clean water for them-though I could maybe get a bitcoins. So your encrypted bitcoins are highly illiquid. You better have stockpiled real items for barter and use before you "invest" anything in a digital currency. First clean water supply, then food, then medicine, then guns and ammo etc.
EMP? NSA?
The interwebs are a system of tubes that are easily manipulated by TPTB. If you believe the interwebs will be available to the general public in a financial meltdown you're wrong.
Bitcoin smells like ball sac, and modern virtual guard dogs are well aware of this. Just trying to be helpful.
Thank-you for those insightful comments.
And remember folks, simple is something you can touch LOL...
roffles. no, probably not.
Hedgeless Horseman,
I love the pictures and thoughts you share of ZH. You are a very wise man :)
"People have been smuggling gold for a very long time."
Not through metal detectors, they haven't.
I love this bullshit that we all be scrambling out of here for greener pastures. Cracks me up.
There are probably many readers, here, that have relatives that did exactly that, and were thankful they could.
They came here.
fonz,
Best comment of the day.
Who said you can leave?
+1 Excellent A clean exit is indeed becoming as difficult as an IRS audit ;-) Depending on circumstance, you have to pay for the priveledge of going through the grilling associated with renouncing citizenship. Being an American ciizen ex-pat still holds you to IRS machinations. The regulatory fence is there to keep you in.
And here I thought we were free. What a bunch of bullshit.
"Do you really think Bitcoin is going to protect you from our government?"
Yes.
...you bet?...
Guns N' Roses - Sweet Child O' Mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w7OgIMMRc4
I sure hop "bitcoins" isn't your plan....
now what? you bought a 700 dollar bitcoin and hope you'll get a million for it?
because you earned it?
Grow up and get a job you lazy bum. And put the money from that bitcoin where you're balls are.
Good luck getting your pillow sacks of gold and silver coins past border security.
Somebody needs to watch "Schindlers List".
Gold is a valuable commodity when SHTF.
Spielberg propaganda? No thanks, I will skip his revisionist bullshit.
Gold will pay off more people than bitcoin ever could. Why?
You have to convert bitcoin into dollars in order to use it. Who fucking accepts bitcoin? NOBODY. Sure, you can give it from one person to another...but only to that small number of people who accept it.
I guarantee a gold bar is good in any store I take it to, in any country you can name.
I also guarantee that any police who disagree with the system will forget they are the police if you show them a gold bar...
Even the Nazis turned a blind eye for the shiny stuff.
That argument totally ignores transactional utility. If you can't find the many utilites that Bitcoin provides I can't help you.
Myself, I am coming up with more of them on a weekly basis.
How so? You think because you can take it over the border that it has value?
Again, only to people who accept it. You might as well have Zimbabwe dollars in any country but Zimbabwe.
I don't care where you take bitcoin if no one accepts it.
The way you talk about it, it reminds me of a company store where you get paid in tokens, and can only redeem those tokens back with the people who paid you...
"I don't care where you take bitcoin if no one accepts it."
Not everywhere is as far behind as the United States. Germany has endorsed Bitcoin as an official currency, the Russians are buying, Canadians are installing Bitcoin ATMs and the Chinese are getting into it in massive numbers.
"Bitcoin ATM's"
Like I said...no one takes BITCOINS. You have to CONVERT THEM into FIAT.
I don't care who sponsors Bitcoin and says it's a "valid currency". Words don't make a currency valid, a market does. So far, the market doesn't go beyond buying weed and assassins. Until the average person can use bitcoins to buy goods and services from their neighbor, they are worthless.
Worthless to idiots with no imagination perhaps. Most of the industry surrounding Bitcoin has not even been thought of yet.
You're a man selling cars when there are no roads.
Continue your silly endeavor. I will enjoy watching you crash and burn in a ditch that "wasn't thought of yet".
We are the people who were building the information super highway while you thought the telephone was the be-all-end-all.
"We are the people who were building the information super highway while you thought the telephone was the be-all-end-all."
And all this time I thought it was Al Gore.
A few things
- A lot of people seem to take the stance that its either/ or. Either you have gold/ silver or you have bitcoin. I think they compliment each other.
Bitcoin is what I try to use for daily transactions if I can, they are NOT my long term store of value. I treat them more as my bank account.
Bitcoins are also not my shtf option. But the item being mentioned was moving money from one location to another and for this role bitcoin is much better than gold.
Once we agree on that, lets look at your post. Your assertions are just silly. The list of stores that would take a bar of gold is very short but since you tossed out the challenge. Take a bar of gold to the supermarket and buy your groceries, let me know how it goes. If you are paying for your everyday items using gold and silver somehow then I applaud you. If you are using your TBTF bank account everyday instead then maybe learn a little bit about bitcoin. Of course not everyone accepts bitcoin either but the number of people that do is increasing every day. There are tons of websites devoted to listing company's that will accept bitcoin (both large company's and local ones)
You do NOT have to convery bitcoin to dollars to use them
Bitcoin is used in a lot of transactions every day. I assume you are not very familiar with bitcoin and that is why you think no one accepts them. Here is some information that maybe of interest.
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-total
Why is this doorknob so precious that you include it in your bugout bag?
There were no XRays at the airport in Schindlers List.
Yup, it's not "earned benefits," it's more like "accessory to theft."
However, the attitude behind "earned benefits" highlights how the government criminals take one's soul in exchange for said "benefits."
Guillotine maintenance tip #1: Use Rain-X to protect the blade from corosion after cleaning and polishing.
I know its easy to attack a generation as the source of all ills today but as a tail end boomer (1961) not all of us believed in this travesty. For thirty years we tried diligently to build our own retirement ourselves all the while paying the max in SS. We knew this was no Bank Acct. We have scrimped and saved all our lives living frugally and thanks to ZIRP and an insane government, we're screwed. I'm sorry we failed in our endeavor, it wasn't for lack of trying or laziness.
Never in our lives did we expect the younger generation to support us in our old age. Believe me, we are highly aware how many people we are supporting now and many are probably not worthy or appreciative of this fact. Our tax rate, federal and state, is 50%.
I never call young people lazy and ignorant. I know how hard it is for youth today and have sympathy. I support them any way I can. Instead of fighting among ourselves we should focus on the real enemy.
Miffed;-)
Amen and well stated. Don't ever apologize this was not your fault but the fault of a few really really bad apples.
Agree. We are going to have to re-learn the meaning of solidarity or we will continue to fight over scraps.
Well said. I don't see the point of blaming anyone but the government. Take the Ponzi scheme. The first wave of people who pay into it actually get their money back + the promised magical 30% returns. Along the way, fewer and fewer people get any "returns," and then the last wave of suckers gets nothing when the entire thing collapses.
Who is to blame? The people who got money? The people who didn't? An intellectually honest person will admit that they are ALL to blame because they ALL gave their money to Ponzi. They ALL believed in the magical returns, even though life (and math) should have caused them to KNOW that it was impossible to get something for nothing.
It's been a known known for very many years that SS was not sustainable. It should have been a wake up call that government should have nothing to do with your money or your retirement. But alas, generation after generation (wave after wave of suckers) falls for the (false) promise of magical returns.
Bitcoin will make a fine electronic currency once it is backed by something that qualifies as money.
Bitcoin will never be backed by anything. It operats solely on confidence.
But US dollars and Euros aren't backed by anything either. They operate solely on confidence.
So Bitcoin is just as legit as US dollars and Euros in the "backing" sense.
I think Bitcoin is a good digital currency, just as good as US dollars and Euros. Lot's of other people seem to think so too, and that's what counts, because all three have no real backing at all.
TD's need a thread on ZH for this Idea:
"University of Michigan economist Miles Kimball has developed a theoretical solution to this problem in the form of a n electronic currency that would allow the Fed to bring nominal rates below zero to combat recessions. He's been presenting his plan to different economists and central bankers around the world. Kimball has also written repeatedly about it"..
as I read his Idea he debases fiat even faster than the FED, but calls it negative interest, not debasement or inflation..U of Michigan seems to hire idiots.
Ida Mae Fuller, the first Social Security recipient, got 462 times what she and her employer together paid in “contributions”
Sounds like a ponzi-like, 'Ida Mae' scheme to me. Draw a pyramid and put Ida Mae at the top.
I pay 3k in taxes every month on my salary and according to my pension calculator I'll get 1240 euro's... the same amount a trash collector gets....
But a teacher who makes half of what I makes get's 2500 a month like most public servants...
IT'S EXACTLY THIS COMMUNIST SYSTEM THAT BROKE THE PENSIONSYSTEMS BACK!
A PENSION SHOULD NOT BE MORE THAN 70% OF YOUR LAST SALARY.
Why should a person who never worked a day in their lives get 960 euro's a month?
where's the difference to a working person? A housewife who never received a paycheck suddenly get's a pension cheque once she's 60! WHY?!?!
Sure I have 2 extra pension savings but that is private and comes from my salary.
Sure I have 2 extra pension savings but that is private and comes from my salary.
- A salary that you have ALREADY paid taxes on. When I was in the UK the then Conservative Government was really pushing the Private Pension idea. "You'll get a good return on your "Managed Investments" were the mots du jour.
Things like "Management Fees" (with VAT on top of course), and being taxed on the "profits" were carefully hidden in the very small print. Private Pensions were not for the benefit of the Pensioner-to-be; rather thay were intended as just another "money harvesting" scheme for the well connected, and their "friends" in the Treasury.
"A PENSION SHOULD NOT BE MORE THAN 70% OF YOUR LAST SALARY."
A pension should be whatever you and your employer worked out without bringing my tax dollars into it.
THAT'S WAY BETTER!
Wow Iggy.... how about the people that die before 62?
Shit, I thought I was making funny.
Oh, well.
Those seniors really think they build the world and refuse to believe that all that debt accumulated was also because of them.
But the current generation isn't any better.
The government is here to protect and serve us.
And they really think it's always been this way. And oh my god if you give them a little history lesson on how things where in the 60's here in Europe...
nop... according to the current golden generation, money grows on trees, the government always solves everything once they stop talking about a problem and tomorrow will only be better.
1) This article would be meaningless if there were more growth in the young population (who work) than the old (who no longer do). There would be no financial pressure if there were more young people working and paying in -- and when they got old even more young would be needed. At the core of the matter . . . the problem comes from World War II and the Korean War. The troops came home and made babies.
2) Blacks die early. Social Security cheats them. They are paying in while in the workforce and they cannot collect because they die -- and it doesn't matter why they die early. It only matters that they do. They are paying for white retirement.
3) Old people vote. Forget getting change to this. The GOP pretends it wants entitlement reform (aka Social Security and Medicare benefit cuts), but they will never vote for it if their opponent does not.
what a crock. all the problems we got and you, gary galles want to focus on impoverishing the elderly? gary, when you're done giving paul ryan his tongue bath, eat some rat poison. for the children.
Blacks die early, and SS cheats them? Most blacks who "die early" are low lifes who never worked a day in their lives. Fail.
Poor St. Skittles will never collect...he was "cheated" by SS
Unscientific poll of the young ladies in my office. Even the gals whom are non political don't expect anything from SS by the time they retire.
What I find odd about the younger generation is they seem so passive to it all. Like they are merely observers to some distant political drama that they have no control over.
But this generation has been totally 'media-ized'. They are literally marinated in it from the time their little eye lids flutter open til the time they turn off the ipad and the TVee.
They are waiting. The body of oldsters is still too strong. The kids know they just have to wait long enough. It is easier to push over a tottering old man than a man in his mid to late 50's. There is still some fight in the top two generations. Slowly but surely, the younger generation are going to get into power. Then they will rise up.
They are a smaller generation but as the top generations get older, they will no longer have the fight in them. They will become passive. When you are smaller and the other guy is losing his strength, you bide your time, you wait and you prepare. Then you make your move.
We are probably ten or twenty years from the shift assuming they don't provoke something sooner. If the PTB choose to muddle through then it will be a war of attrition and the younger folks just need to wait.
"The kids know they just have to wait long enough... Slowly but surely, the younger generation are going to get into power. Then they will rise up."
No, that is not how it works. Power does not come to those who merely wait. You become stronger in your rights by exercising them. You learn to fight by fighting.
Take a look at how previous generations worked this power thing--and learn.
It is called picking your battles. When you are fighting a ruthless, thieving bully who outweighs you by about 50 lbs., you don't fight him straight on. You take your shot when he is off balance.
Have fun
No, shit for brains, you are smaller, and so is your brain because your parents were morons and because of natural selection. Why would you want to push over a tottering old man? Your father? A political leader?
Trust me on this U4 whateverthefuck, I could give you the world, and you'd go back home and lie down.
Actually, I'm not one of them. I am in between the two of you. I am of the generation that will be sitting back and watching them eat you alive.
Have fun
Well U4 makes a good point. The elderly won't necessarily be "pushed" in a literal sense, but their benefits can be lowered at the voting booth. Hey, if you didn't save a pile you may not be spared some hardship. Are you an ant or a grasshopper?
And there are always those 'benevolent' leaders of ours that are always pushing for the 'merciful' assisted suicide. As the money runs out that may no longer be an option but a mandate
I'm worried that the younger generations will want not only SS, but free health care for life and a living wage. They are being told that those things are rights. Gen X was not taught this.
Young people going into public office 20 yrs from now will be just as corrupt as the current generation of politicians. They'll screw you over just like politicians screw us over now.
I don't think things will go on that long though. I think we have five more years at best. But who knows. I'm amazed it has gone on this long.
The "trust" fund has been raided so many times no wonder it can't pay back the folks who contributed legitimately. Add to that all the benefits Congress has conferred to those who never put the first dime into the system and you have the seeds for its destruction. Is that the fault of the seniors? Maybe, for voting for ANYONE in the last 40 years - it wouldn't have mattered which party. But it is stretching things to say that those of us who have put money in year after year for 40 years or more should get stiffed just when we need our money back.
Convert congressional and presidential pensions to SS!!
Fuck and make babies - keep the Ponzi Scheme Going- Problem solved.
Hmm, no mention of the fund-skimming since Reagan? Might have something to do with " Social Security’s 13-digit unfunded liability" hmmm?
Reagan started the skimming to pay Shultz's Bechtel and other cronies and make the deficit appear quite a bit less. No one else could get off the crack.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html#a0=6
LOL
World War III - The first private war in history
Those who won all battles shall lose the war.
http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.gr/2012/02/world-war-iii.html
...
They are like the sad “Trojans” who thought there was no enemy to fight against them and they had the nerve to get close to the “Greek” ships. Now, disaster and defeat shall hit them full force. Now they can see what is hidden in these “ships”.
Authored by PANAGIOTIS TRAIANOU
Read that last night. Aside from the spelling and gramatical errors it's a very good read.
Even if you just accepted that the folks that are / or are about to collect SS really did earn it (they didn't but play along)
The CASH collected to make the payments has already been spent.
It is no different than the people that gave Bernie Madoff their retirement savings - the fucking money is gone.
The rich got the tax breaks. Now they get to pay it back. Simple!
Tax breaks? We spend billions out of the public coffers on giving people with some aches and pains new knees and people who eat themselves to death kidney dialysis. We spend it wars and things like bailing out criminals, spying on our neighbors, militarizing our police, busting kids for smoking pot.
Tax Exxon some more and your gas goes up in price. Tax Walmart some more and prices won't be rolled back as much. Let's cut back our oversized Gov.
@ all-priced-in;
"the CASH collected to make the payments has already been spent."
So, this is your political and social position -- that the victim is identical to the criminal, so screw 'em?
Life is hard and not always fair - you put your trust in a criminal organization (Madoff or the US government) what do you expect?
If someone steals your retirement money why is it fair to expect me to pay it back?
Thing is, they continue to steal our money as we speak. And the fools just keep voting! Why?
No, his position is that the money is gone. Math doesn't care if you are a victim. Math doesn't care how many promises the crook gave you. YOU DON'T TURN AROUND AND STEAL FROM SOMEONE ELSE TO MAKE YOURSELF WHOLE.
An intellectually honest person says, The last wave of suckers IS the last wave. If I'm in that wave, so be it.
"The money is gone." Yes.
But if we cut federal gov't down to size, stop policing the world, etc.; there would be enough income to give the old farts something and let the young ones opt out. But what are the odds....
ASSHOLE!
It was the scum in Congress (Reagan's time) that voted to fund deficits by spending SS funds instead of savings.
In Canada the SS money (CPP) went into investements. In the US it funded lower taxes for the rich.
Time for the rich to pay up now!!!!
Taker.
I paid in to it all and I WANT mine. I deserve it. I also went to Woodstock and we are the coolest generation. LOL!
I am actually younger and F the baby boomers and seniors who voted for O.
What a bunch of whinners, the non-boomer generation.
For all the boomer haters out there, I'd like to point out that a 1947 baby only got her first SS check in January 2013 (age 66). YES we are abut to suck you dry, BUT we have not done it yet.
And really...this system will collapse before too many have actually gotten 'theirs' and then some. Essentially we paid our parents retirement but we are not going to get our's. I will be shocked if I ever receive more than I paid in. This is because Ponzi systems fail. If this one does not...well whoopee, I won! But Ponzis do fail so quit bitchin at us boomers because we are not going to get rich, we are getting fucked like every one else.
I'm not gloating, and perhaps I will be shamed into an undesirable outcome in years ahead, but I stopped contributing to SS about 15 years ago. Started my own business, found massive tax loopholes and either showed losses or made less than the $400 threshold and filed my taxes diligently, every year.
I did this because I saw the Ponzi that was SS many years before, when I was 16, got my first paycheck and asked my dad what this "FICA" was. He told me that was social security and I've never forgotten his quote, "You'll get that back when you retire," nor mine, "I'll never see a penny of that."
Anyhow, that was 1969 or 1970, and I'll turn 60 in two weeks. The last time I saw a statement from the government it showed my SS retirement to be $414 a month. I'm fine with that. I only really paid into it from 1974-1982 (after I quit college and worked for a living), so, if I don't get it, I'm not sweating it.
All you people who say, "pay me back what I paid in" and like comments, I'll go one better. Keep what I paid in, eliminate the system, and I'll be happy. The problem with most people is the belief that they're owed something, when the fact is that the government "taxed" you, i.e., stole from you, to pay somebody else (your parents). My advice is to stop bitching about the system and strive to live as much as possible outside it. Stop berating people who espouse the benefits of bitcoin and start researching it. Of course, gold, silver, arable land, useful machinery, alternate fuels (small hydro, wind, solar, geo) guns, bullets, etc., should be on your list. Become resourceful and self-sufficient. It's not as hard as you might think. Imagine, for instance, if people planted gardens in just half of their back yards instead of growing and mowing the lawn. The difference would be huge.
I'm rambling, so I'll quit. Bottom line, run, don't walk, away from government. They are the true enemy of our freedom.
"Loopholes", eh? Did you combine some real estate loses with income or did you do some fibbing on your returns.
This is a touch topic and although the article makes some valid comments it omits the following.
First, when social security came into being people did not have today's life expectancy. This has blown out both benefits and medical costs.
Secondly, had social security been invested in real things such as toll roads, farmland, equities, precious metals and the like the fund would have been worth a lot more than some useless IOU earning almost zero.
Thirdly, demographic developments are aganst us.
The bottom line is that we will get to the point where the output of the economy and the aggregate demand for that output will be out of balance. Who will get what will be most interesting.
"First, when social security came into being people did not have today's life expectancy"
Not far from my house is an old cemetery with perhaps 150 burials. If the adolescent deaths were discounted the life expectancy would be very close to what it is today. Show me a study that examines deaths over time where children are not included in the calculations.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
It is time to change these idiots. Give me 75% of my paid money, and i will buy an annuity that will pay me an equivilent income, thus removing me from this bullshit program and giving the government a 25% boost on their basis..
WTF
Ladies and Gentlemen,
It is time to change these idiots. Give me 75% of my paid money, and i will buy an annuity that will pay me an equivilent income, thus removing me from this bullshit program and giving the government a 25% boost on their basis..
WTF
Make sure the company you buy the annuity from remains solvent. Many have lost their private pensions along with their jobs in the last few years.
1997 Mom died at 52, worked her whole life paying into SS. Got 3 checks before she passed away. Dad, died at 64 in 2004....paid into SS his whole life. Got 1 check when it was finally approved right before he passed on. They each paid in thousands over their working years. Each diagnosed with cancer, each died exactly 5 months after it was diagnosed. So, do tell me...who gets the money they paid into it? Surely not the family since there is no trust bequeathed upon us. Where the fuck did THEIR money go? I know none went toward their chemo bills, rad treatment bills, in-care and therapy I can fucking tell you that!
I grin when I look back and It was a measure of TRUE generosity when my sister and I each got the $225.00 from SS to help with their final expenses. Really saved our asses from the $10K burial costs each.
Fucking mother fucking joke yo.
The number of centenarians in the USA grew by 66% between 1980 and 2010 even though the population increased by only 36%.
Your point about nothing flowing to the estate is a vald one.
Perhaps contributions should be based on how long you expect to live.
If you expect to die before retirement then make no contributions. If you expect to live to 100 then be hammered. If what you contribute turns out to be too much due to early death then omething should flow through to the family.
The saddest thing though is to have lost your parents so early.
God keep them happy in their next life.
This is not how insurance works. The risk being insured against is the risk of living longer than expected. The current system provides for survivors who are spouses during the working life of the insured as well as minor children, and is based on his earnings. To provide for other survivors it would be necessary to raise the rates.
Thanks mate
The funds your parents did not receive went to others who lived into their 90s. That's the way insurance works. Just like automobile insurance: Those who never have an accident pay for those who do. In the case of SS, those who die in their 50's pay for those who live to their 90's.
So, wait a second. If social security is "insurance", what is it insurance against? Social problems?
Did your grandparents ever collect welfare (SS or Medicare)?
That is how a pay as you go TAX and pay ENTITLEMENTS system works -
If it was a real retirement plan and you had to pay everyone back what they paid in TAXES PLUS a reasonable rate of return you would be paying more in taxes -I guess they figure - the LUCKY ones die young.
If you can't see it, smell it, touch it, It exists. *That's what they teach kids in Skool now days.
* Career exemption for Miffed.
The Tangible vs. The Touchy Feely?
Reality is just so..... heartless and unforgiving. It never cares about your feelings. It never boosts your self esteem. It expects actions not emotions. Thank god schools today are blunting that horrible harshness and graduating students in life coping skills.
Miffed;-)
Deep respect for you Miffed. I started my first business out of my garage back in the 80's.
Then I should have more respect for you than you have for me. You opted for risk, independence and self determination. The point of this country (well, historically). I, after watching my father's business be destroyed by unscrupulous men, chose "safety" in a professional career. I, unwittingly, lashed a yoke of debt slavery on my back and will never taste freedom. I truly envy and admire those who had the wisdom and foresight not to have gone down my path. It would have been nice to have known someone like you in the early 1980s to have inspired me to a better path.
Miffed;-)
Miffed: You have a gold mine awaiting. All you need to do is get to it (yes, you can bring Mr. Miffed).
I ran into another miner today at 711 by chance while gassing up the mining mule. Had a great 5 minute talk with him which was far too short since we were both trying to get other shit done. He said did you ever notice that most of the mining claims in British Columbia are owned by people from Alberta?
I said, that's because the BC dope growers don't register minings claims. They just plant it on the land you aren't mining without your knowing about it.
Moral of the story: There are different ways to "mine" different products. I'll have to stick with mining. I can't even grow fungus in a petri dish.
I have not forgotten. You are such a tease! I've looked at its picture many times. We've got to plan something next year when we may make a trip to Spokane in the late spring I've got to fire up the homing pigeon and connect with you.
Don't worry about not having skill growing fungus. A few months back I isolated a very rare black mold from a patients brain with leukemia. I was so proud I identified it correctly and was then horrified to find out it could be lethal to immunocompetent microbiologists. Thank God I handled it correctly though it was scary. So sad to call a Dr and tell them his patient was not going to live and having a worried feeling you may share the same fate! Still, I must admit, I wouldn't like to stumble upon the other "miners" stash who probably guards it with pretty impressive fire power.
Miffed;-)