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Bitcoin Slammed As Baidu Suspends Payments Due To "Fluctuations"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Bitcoin is being sold aggressively on heavy volume as this headline hits:

  • *BAIDU SUSPENDS BITCOIN PAYMENT ACCEPTANCE ON VALUE FLUCTUATION

And the official, google-translated announcement from the BIDU website:

This is one of the reasons Citi and BofAML noted as 'disadvantages' and it seems Baidu agrees (for now).

 

 

and as a reminder...

 

 

It appears Mt.Gox has crashed trying to handle a very large sell order... and the resulting algo mess is as follows...

 

Chart: Bitcoinwisdom

 

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Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:16 | 4222556 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

It is still beta right now and is going to be bumpy but that is to be expected if you plan to be an early adopter. I like what it is trying to achieve will it be successful on this iteration, who knows but you need to start somewhere.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:25 | 4222595 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

Software quality is the issue if people are investing real money. Otherwise, I would be willing to use play money while they iron out the bugs.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:51 | 4222709 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Um, yeah. Any system where I have to trust a centralized third party to be honest, is not one I'm interested in. I already have access to a centralized third-party financial system, it's called the Federal Reserve, and I don't like it very much for that exact rason.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:58 | 4222736 Ponzi Pontiff
Ponzi Pontiff's picture

Software can be beta.  Males can be beta.  Belief in the value of a medium of exchange or store of value (on which is predicated its entire usefulness as 'money') can never be beta.

Bitcoin (and others like it) have the attraction of being beyond the reach of the charlatans and manipulators who populate our financial systems and power structures.

That attraction, right there, is the reason why they will kill it.

But they will not just kill it mercifully and quickly - that would defeat the purpose.  They need to get every mom and pop into it, shilling it on the news as the Next Big Thing, and then they step right up and give everybody a massive haircut so that everybody gets the message.

It's the same reason why they used to put heads on spikes outside the Tower of London.

Sure, you might make some money swing trading it - and good luck to you.  But there doesnt seem to be a lot of liquidity on the way down, and the Vested Interests have a vested interest in making it not work.

You keep building your skyscrapers in Minecraft, I'll keep stacking.  Hey, you keeping your dollars out of buying physical helps make it cheaper for me to stack.

I wish you no ill, and good luck to you making a return (or keeping what you've got) in any venture you care to partake in.

But 'beta'?  Puh-lease.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:37 | 4222811 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

You keep believing that. You sound like those people that are too quick to drop their draws when the TSA agent puts on the rubber gloves and not willing to challenge anything to find out. Over the long term banks are going to go the way of the dinosaur at least in a traditional sense like the phone companies did going from being strictly analog voice communication companies to a multimedia digital companies. The end result is they will end up probably strictly as investment services and/or storage vaults for actual physical items like gold, jewelry, cash while losing their stranglehold facilitation of commerce between individuals and businesses and traditional checking and saving services.

You are welcome to believe what you want but world is moving and changing and no TBTF or anyone else for that matter can stop change. One of the few constants in life is change. They may snuff this stuff out in one region but it will persist elsewhere. There is too much money invest in crypto-currency now and infrastructure around it to stop without a major fight. Self interest always rules and there is more of us than them.

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:44 | 4222674 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

"Moreover, because transactions ripple through the system, your balances can be affected even if you haven’t personally made a transaction. In other words, you could wake up one day to suddenly find that you owe a friend (or a few friends) a bunch of money. In that sense, everyone is a passive liquidity provider, which inherently puts you at risk even when you have nothing to gain."

Er, and this is good why?

PS  Regarding lending - Is it correct that there's no good way to loan Bitcoins at interest?  Seems like any loan arraignment would need to be strictly fee-based as compounding interest would not work without an inflation mechanism.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:55 | 4222716 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

BitCoins are deflationary, and debt doesn't work that well in deflationary systems. That is exactly the reason why the Federal Reserve system was invented!! You can't enslave a world to debt in a gold-standard system, because (assuming that coin debasement is easily detected in modern times, which it is) gold is deflationary.

Debt isn't 100% a bad thing, but I'd say it's 98% a bad thing. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:16 | 4222778 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Man you guys just fixate on one thing and don't see the forest for the trees do you......... Bitcoin is only one facet in this whole new iteration of a financial system that is slowly unfolding.

Let me spell it out for you in simple economic terms. What is slowly going on with crypto-currencies right now is actually Keynesian in nature. Demand is driving supply. The Central Banks are doing the exact opposite which is supply creates it's own demand but they rig game by being the only game in town that provides supply so by claiming to be Keynesian the demand part is self fullfilling when you control the supply end in absolute terms. Our current system is a supply side based system this a demand side based system.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:48 | 4222872 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Actually, I think you have it exactly backwards. The Central Banks are supplying dollars furiously, but the people who get them (the rich) are doing everything they can to get rid of them-- look at collectibles pricing, high-end real estate prices, or anything else rich people buy.

As far as BitCoin is concerned, it is a perfect example of Say's Law in action. There was virtually NO demand for BitCoins when they were conceived, yet BitCoin miners jumped in and started supplying them. Satoshi supplied the first alternative to the FIat Dollar in almost a century and tapped into a huge pool of latent demand.

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 18:14 | 4222903 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

We can do the chicken or egg came first circular reasoning here. Obviously someone or something had to create an initial supply but basic demand was already there. Demand is not always a tangible thing in this case the demand started as an intellectual endeavor who had an idea, the idea is the demand, which in turn he created a small supply and a system to create more. If there was no demand it would have never made it to this point and not only that it made it to this point in a voluntary fashion. Bitcoins weren't forced on anyone by the law of the land unlike state backed currencies which are whether there is demand or not. The coercive and monopolistic nature of Central Bank issued currency in essence automatically creates demand by lack of choice within the system. It is also creating demand for currency outside the system now because of the way it is being managed. Demand creates supply in a voluntary system. That has to be a mindfuck for Austrian types.....

You can't indefinitely deny demand when demands it. Ironically in the 2008 collapse and subsequent FED monetary policy that is probably driving the demand for crypto-currency more than anything else right now and the more they squeeze the more it will drive demand because necessity is the mother of all invention.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 05:24 | 4223943 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Bitcoins are not deflationary.
It's a fucking currency, not money.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:03 | 4222751 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

It is a start not the final outcome or solution. Crypto-currency is going to spark all sorts of new innovation and in the process things will come and they will go but an evolution is in process right now. It is the direction it is moving that is the important thing not this particular protocol which at this point is more of a proof of concept than anything else.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 05:20 | 4223940 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Down voted the post:
1. The comment is too long (spam-ish)
2. Ripple is crap (yes, I used it) and Ponzi
3. Google is an investor

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:49 | 4222697 Ponzi Pontiff
Ponzi Pontiff's picture

I accept your premise - that digital currency will be The Way one day, but I reject your thesis.

Your thesis seems to be that:

  1. There are 'a number' of virtual currencies being created;
  2. Early adopters who have the foresight and the wisdom mine these currencies and therefore accummulate 'currency' for free (minus electricity);
  3. TPTB will, one day, see the wisdom in virtual currency and will adopt it;
  4. TPTB will allow those far-sighted people in (2) to join the 1% by virtue of the fact that they were geeky enough to be able to build and run open-source.

I was kind of with you, right up until I got to (4) and then Morpheus said "welcome to the real world". 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:31 | 4222373 frankTHE COIN
frankTHE COIN's picture

Fat Finger.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:31 | 4222381 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

IT'S BECAUSE OF THE FUNDAMENTALS!!!

...

WHOEHAHAHAHAHAHA

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:48 | 4222461 akak
akak's picture

Bitcoin: only costs $5 to dig from the ether!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:31 | 4222383 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

The Baidu release was five hours ago.  I doubt this is in response to it.  

Don't trust any chart that you see now, Mt. Gox is at a 30 minute lag.  Bitcoinwisdom is probably not faring any better than the rest.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:08 | 4222524 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

It's 4am in China. Do you really think they're gonna wake up and start buying based on this news?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:32 | 4222388 semperfi
semperfi's picture

but but but my friends told me that housing only goes up - I mean bitcoin - bitcoin only goes up - wtf ?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:33 | 4222394 Iam Yue2
Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:33 | 4222397 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

yep - just another product to trade.

 

love how the banks come in to promote a $1300 target (so they can sell to the bag holders) and a few days later it tanks.

 

works everytime.  poor stupid bagholders.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:41 | 4222431 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

So it goes with "assets" backed only by greater fools...

Do I feel sorry for them? Fuck no, dumb fucks deserve whatever gets them.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:35 | 4222398 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Fonestar I was only joking when I said we need you in the lobby. Come back, please

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:35 | 4222399 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I don't think I'd like to own these bitcoins things, it seems almost more depressing than owning gold and silver.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:37 | 4222412 seek
seek's picture

I liken it to being a fast cycling bipolar mood disorder (BTC) v. a slow cycling mood disorder (PMs). You get depression and euphoria with either one.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:40 | 4222424 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

at least with gold and silver, you can melt it and forge a sword to impale yourself upon. with bitcoins, you'd have to smack yourself over the head with a hard drive...and that just looks silly.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:01 | 4222494 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Even with massive manipulation and controls gold and silver have an inherent value as physical items that have a real use, so they will never be worthless.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:45 | 4223288 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

LOL. +10 alien!

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:39 | 4222414 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

For fucks sake - convert at least 25% of your bitcoins to gold and silver on the next rise if not now.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:45 | 4222450 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why would I do that when my bitcoin portfolio is less than 10% the size of my PM portfolio?

Why do people assume you can only own one or the other?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:45 | 4222452 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Leave the BTC pumpers be. We have all chosen our ships and will soon find out which ones can withstand the iceberg.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:25 | 4223388 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

the S.S. Bitcoin is unsinkable!
Her hull's been reinforced with the hardiest of LOLkitten-fur straight from cheezburger.com.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:41 | 4222430 ivana
ivana's picture

I will wait until bulish trend is confirmed at cca 28000 and than ... will wait for few confirmation posts from fonestar - than am going all in! ha ha ha

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:44 | 4222435 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture


Bitcoin Crashes To $800 On Report Baidu Has Stopped Accepting Bitcoin


Bitcoin crashes to $800 on BitStamp on report that Baidu has stopped accepting Bitcoin. The famous "Network Effect" which has propelled Bitcoin "Valuation" according to its pumpers is working now against the "Future of Money" backed by Satoshi Nakamoto, NSA, CIA or by somebody else - please chose according to your liking. China has banned financial institutions from working with Bitcoin and now the other operators will follow the orders.    It always boils down to the question: what is it better - to look like idiot before the Bubble burst or after that? China is protecting its citizens and encourages them to accumulate Gold. Gold is holding well today after all positive economic news and Bitcoin bust will ignite the new Gold Bull Leg Up breaking free of any snake oil competition. Next few days will place the experiment for distraction from the Real Value into perspective for all involved parties. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/bitcoin-crashes-to-800-on-report-bai...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:46 | 4222448 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Maybe I am just dumb, but I could never understand how bitcoin works as a currency.  Maybe it is because it is an intangible and paper money I can see and feel in my wallet or stuffed in my mattress.

Bitcoin is like derivatives to me.  Bunch of BS in a nice sales package to benefit the house while the gamblers feed the machine, not realizing their losses are what keeps the opulent Casino operating.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:27 | 4222604 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

Study tally sticks and then just remove the stick.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:41 | 4222858 itchy166
itchy166's picture

How much does it cost to print a $100 dollar bill?

 

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:19 | 4223375 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

don't be so silly.
Bitcoin works as a currency in the same way that toenail clippings work as a retirement plan.
See? Clear as 0x83a04c7f9b.

int find_bagholder() {

 return ponzi(1,find_bagholder() );

}

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:48 | 4222459 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

You can tell who all the jealous non-bitcoin holders are when there is a negative development and they get all jubilant about it. Don't gloat. Buy.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:52 | 4222474 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Right away, sir!
LoL!!!!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:59 | 4222501 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Natural selection will not favor these gloaters who refuse to adapt.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:18 | 4222564 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Adapt?  To something that might not be around in 12 months?  Pretty sure the folks around Crater Lake aren't still buying asteroid insurance.

If you truly believe then here's your chance to put up.  You pick a conference in the 2015 Superbowl.  AFC or NFC I don't care.  If you win I'll pay you 25 Btc.  If I win you pay me $20K US. 

I made the same offer at $1200 xrate and at $1000 and no one piped up. 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:41 | 4222670 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

How are we going to enforce this bet?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:53 | 4222715 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Also, football sucks. And you can quote me on that. ;)

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:02 | 4222743 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Bitcoin the currency may fail. But you can't uninvent distributed ledger cryptocurrencies. They are here to stay.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:27 | 4222818 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 BEANIE BABIES ARE HERE TO STAY ALSO

 

 WANT SOME ????????????????

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:46 | 4223437 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Nice caps.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:06 | 4223340 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

NO, they're not.
A distributed ledger is a lousy idea wasting network bandwidth & computation.
PGP signed messages accomplish the same with  much less storage, less use of network, can work PERSON TO PERSON in hand as well as peer to peer.
You're re-inventing the wheel as a juggernaut tank tread when an actual circular coin will do.
It's like building a wood-framed steam-powered hydraulic cylinder from the 1800's and posing that we use that instead of aluminum cast gasoline engines.
It's absurd.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:52 | 4223460 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Thanks for saying something original, at least. Cheers.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 02:53 | 4223849 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

only about the 10th time I've said it - first time you paid attention. So that's the signal to ignore ratio.

How's that 31.5% loss in 5 hours looking on ya? Check out MtQox for your quatloo valuations in the last hour? 46% loss in just 2 days. You call that a currency? That's epic suicide.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 04:15 | 4223909 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Meh. I've seen this before. We who got in early all have.

Sorry I haven't been hanging on your every word. You should price your financial advice in bitcoins. It might be a good marketing gimmick.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:22 | 4225266 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

'got in early' = looking for bag-holders.

You'll find none here. Best of luck on your hunt. bitcoins have no value - the price is zero to me at all times.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:24 | 4222582 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You mean refusing to "adopt" a new electronic currency that's been given the blessings of the planners?  That's un-Natural selection, not what Darwin had in mind..

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:01 | 4222742 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Though it's not excluded that "adopters" of cryptocurrencies deserve a nomination for The Darwin Awards.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:13 | 4223208 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Yes. Because we might lose our tiny investments that have seen 3,000 percent returns. Meanwhile, I still have my gold, same as you.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:23 | 4222588 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

Nor the arrogant trendoftheyear fluffers who ignore history....

Cheers.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:00 | 4223332 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

natural selection will favor ONLY those with tangible assets, each one with an atomic nucleus, which bitcoin is not.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:15 | 4222552 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

I have no agenda in the bitcoin debate. I do have a bit of experience with intangible assets. Anyone who seriously invests in assets that do not exist in the physical world is delusional. Period. Your chances of a positive result are inversely related to how long you stay invested. It's a lot like gambling. If you are smart, you quit while you are ahead. Otherwise...........

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:37 | 4222632 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Why- so you can get out?

Not a chance.

Enjoy your ride to zero, sucker!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:45 | 4222676 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

I haven't sold a single bitcoin since $32. Haven't sold an ounce of gold since $1900 either.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:06 | 4222759 Ponzi Pontiff
Ponzi Pontiff's picture

Every trade has a buyer and a seller.

If everybody follows your brilliant advice and buys, then who exactly is selling?

No way it would be the folks who bought at $100 or less, now looking for greater fools?  Of course not.

In my years on this earth, I've learned a couple of truths.  One of the biggest truths of all when it comes to trading or investing is this:

"Those who know don't say.  And those who say, don't know".

How's them 'DOW 20000' hats working out for ya?

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:28 | 4223250 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

What if those who say are saying opposite things, and only one of them can be right?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:59 | 4223325 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

don't buy - that's suicide.
By all means, if you got 'em sell 'em but to throw hundreds of dollars at this just before it loses another 50% is much less entertaining way to lose money than just lighting it on fire in front of you, which you can with paper, lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills, etc.
You'll be at a full loss either way but one is entertaining. The other is being a giant sucker.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:50 | 4222469 devo
devo's picture

What goes up...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:10 | 4222531 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Blood Sweat & Tears - Spinning wheel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK62tfoCmuQ (2:33)

Spinning Wheel - High Quality Version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi9sLkyhhlE (4:13)

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:54 | 4222475 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

You would have to immediately turn around Bitcoins for online transactions with this volatility.

You can't wait 50 minutes or put them in the "safe" overnight if they all will drop 10% in the next 1/2 hour.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:08 | 4222525 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Such volutility ensures BTC will never be a widely used "currency" in its own right for trade/exchange.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:38 | 4222628 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

The problem is that being a widely used currency is the only real value Bitcoin has to offer. If it cannot be used a currency in normal transactions, including large industrial transactions such as buying and selling commodities such as oil, or manufactured goods, it has no real value, and then becomes a wild speculation only.

If it can only be used to purchase novelties such as "I <love> Bitcoin" T-shirts, small retail items, and semi-black-market goods, its application is severely limited and its value is very low.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:48 | 4223295 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Your last sentence is simply not true.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:04 | 4222746 geewhiz
geewhiz's picture

Patience grasshopper, bennybucks will soon demonstrate true volatility.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:55 | 4223313 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

indeed. Any stable currency must change rate of supply or rate of 'value' in accordance with the goods on the other side of the trade to be stable.
That's that. That's why using goods AS money, tangibles, is most stable, such as gold or silver.
Even with fiat's rapid decline on the 100 year chart, wages have gone up & many goods have declined in price per unit which are critical goods (like computers) so the total damage has been minimal.
It's been fairly SYNCHRONIZED and so long as they move in the same direction at the same time it's actually fairly stable.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 15:54 | 4222478 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

The horror...the horror...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:05 | 4222522 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Led Zeppelin - When The Levee Breaks (Studio Version - Best Quality)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKkJHSO8A0 (7:08)

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:11 | 4222530 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

My stack of gold plated tungsten is still here.

Some of the plating is wearing but I plan on superglueing it.

 

 

ETA:  Thnx Goldi!!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 18:29 | 4222960 auric1234
auric1234's picture

If the plating is wearing, then it wasn't real gold plating. You've been ripped off!

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:52 | 4223307 MeelionDollerBogus
Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:10 | 4222532 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

Did anyone doubt this sort of behaviour was ahead once the central banks cast their gaze in the direction of bitcoin?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:13 | 4222541 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

I've never understood the vitriol on this site for anything that isn't gold or silver, nor the gloating when they feel validated for about 5 seconds. 

Do any of you ever feel stupid after Bitcoin goes back up time and time again?  Or does your smugness allow you to believe that the long term trend is the lie and the short term is the truth? 

The idea of Bitcoin really is sound.  It's a fascinating tech that could change the way people around the world can exchange goods and services.  And it cuts out the squids of the world who suck every bit of value they can out of others productivity. 

Is this a sound, safe investment right now?  No.  Of course not.  Their are only three types of people in Bitcoin seriously right now - Gamblers, Technies, and Locked-Down Third Worlders.  It's reached fad status in Europe and at least you can actually buy things there with it and to a limited extent in the US, but the valuation swings relegate it to the brave.  As the economy grows, these swings will become less severe, though. 

There are lots of companies whose value is based off of the creation of a bunch of digital bits that may or may not be of use tomorrow.  This isn't much different than owning stock in those accept it's more like a massive crowd funded startup where all the early adopters are hoping to reap the benefits of either a quick buck or mass adoption. 

If Bitcoin dissapears, it won't be today, or this month or likely even this year.  It will dead cat bounce and keep going until a hammer is really dropped on it.  Baidu is more like a pin.  The China declaration is also a joke.  I'm sure most of you are aware that half China's economy is in the grey and black markets.  Adoption there was never going to be official. 

So continue to cheer all you want at the demise of Bitcoin.  You'll get the chance to over and over again just as you did in January, and May, and July, and now.  Yet it was still $10 dollars a year ago and now after it's crash it's ~850 ish right now.  I'm not sure you are going to see the billions of dollars invested in this just dispear overnight like you think. 

Disclosure:  I own 0.00000000 bitcoin right now.  I can see the benefit of it as a technology and as a speculative investment though. 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:18 | 4222559 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

I don't understand, how something as stupid as ONE online outlet for Music stopping to accept bitcoins can cause such wild drops in the market.

Its nuts really... people panic sell / buy on the lightest whisper.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:21 | 4222579 seek
seek's picture

If you look at the charts, it's pretty clear that one music store stopping payment isn't the cause of this, just a good thing to blame it on. Someone placed a big sell order in a really retarded way -- or a very strategic way -- on Gox to trigger a price stack implosion.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:36 | 4222640 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The 51% er's  control the market.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:40 | 4222660 seek
seek's picture

More like today, this guy: http://blockchain.info/address/12WFth5HabiVrcj5waHtDP1b7gXSQPuDPz controlled the market.

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 18:27 | 4222957 auric1234
auric1234's picture

See, when this happens to gold I couldn't care less who are the assholes who control the market. I know when the market disappears, gold value will rise in the end.

With BTC, I get the impression that is precisely the BTCUSD market which gives it value. If the market disappeared, suddenly all BTC become worthless instantly!

And don't tell me you can buy things directly with BTC. You can't. The only reason some merchants accept it is because they can be exchanged for USD. The exchanges are like a central bank to Bitcoin, in the sense that they're the ones who give it value by making it redeemable.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 01:39 | 4223797 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Exactly bitcoin is like a bearer bond.

"redeem on demand at your local online exchange for USD at current market value".

 

Thats what a bitcoin would be stamped with if it was physical currency.

 

Lol if USD's went poof a laptop would cost 1000's of bitcoins instead of 0.0054 of a btc.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:39 | 4222657 RhoneGSM
RhoneGSM's picture

Kinda like the PM Futures from time to time?  Makes me say hmmmmm

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:42 | 4222673 seek
seek's picture

Me to. I've been digging in the blockchain around this event, there were repetitive 1000 BTC orders spaced every 5 minutes or so followed up by this bad boy that I linked to above: http://blockchain.info/address/12WFth5HabiVrcj5waHtDP1b7gXSQPuDPz

Unfortunately we don't know who it is or what the price was, but that's not an inconsequential amount of money on a single exchange like Gox.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 18:43 | 4223000 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Nice forensics seek. Ballsy big time pump and dumper or maybe Baidu CFO getting out of Dodge?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:21 | 4223232 seek
seek's picture

Difficult to tell. It could even just be the exchange sweeping bitcoins into safer storage. But it's pretty suspicious that a transaction of that magnitude appears immediately prior to the biggest drop of the day.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:56 | 4223316 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

How does sweeping bitcoins into a safer storage work seek? why would that effect the price? If you bought them, it doesn't fall until you trade them back in for fiat right?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:17 | 4223370 seek
seek's picture

The sweep wouldn't have any effect on price -- but it would create a large transaction. What we have here is a single transaction that's 25K BTC ($20M+ USD) -- which is just simply huge in bitcoin terms. It occurred during the drop, right before the biggest drop in price of the day.

There are multiple possible explanations. Let's say that MtGox was seeing people sell all day, and MtGox was buying. At some point their "live" bitcoin wallet could have 25K bitcoints and it'd be a security risk to keep them live, so they send them to a offline wallet. That would show up as a single 25K transaction to one address from many addresses. This would have no effect on pricing.

Or, let's say someone has been slowly accumulating bitcoin in multiple small transactions over the past few months, and decided in the middle of a downturn that it was a fantastic time to unload $20 million worth of bitcoins all at once at market rates. That too would show up as a singe 25K transaction to one address from many addresses. This would affect the price, but we won't know how without knowing the stucture of the trade, which we'll never know.

We can't know what happened based on the blockchain info alone. But it's an "interesting coincidence" that this transaction appearred at the start of the big drop.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:58 | 4223468 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Thanks for the info Seek, but how could sending Btc to an offline wallet be marked as a sell? And, to further show how naive I am...what kind of vehicle is an offline wallet? A personal computer?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:05 | 4223589 seek
seek's picture

When you look at the blockchain, you can't tell what's a sell v. not, they're all just transfers. (You could argue that the receipient "bought" the BTC with whatever in exchange, but the reality is you just don't know. They're all just "transactions" on the blockchain.)

An offline wallet isn't a PC. It's basically an address like any other address, but the difference is the private key that generated that address was generated on a computer that was never connected to the internet (or wasn't when the key was generated, and then promptly rebooted, like if you booted with a live CD.) Paper wallets are the best example of an offline wallet -- you can generate them on a computer that has no network connection or hard drive, then shut it down. At that point you have a receive-only bitcoin address with private keys that never touched the network, and hence can't be hacked or stolen in any way. If you have a substantial amount of bitcoin it's wise to transfer them to an offline wallet for security reasons. Hence, if MtGox had a pile of bitcoin they'd bought, it would make sense for them to transfer them to an offline wallet to prevent them from being stolen. MtGox actually had a major bitcoin theft in its past, so I'm sure they're more careful about these things now. Unfortunately we have no way of knowing who those 25K bitcoins transferred today actually went to.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:16 | 4223601 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

My thx!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 05:06 | 4223936 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Makes no sense; the price should not change because of such transactions.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:17 | 4222561 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Replacing a dog shit sandwich with a cat turd sandwich is not my idea of a good lunch. Ya feel meh?!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:30 | 4222611 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

"Do any of you ever feel stupid after Bitcoin goes back up time and time again?"

yeah, I do for about 10 seconds, then reality slaps me like the bitch that it is and I wake up--only to realize that those that hold something physical still have something to show for it, instead of a wallet stuck somehere out in the wild blue yonder. Even at the low prices we see with metals ATM, one can grab a coin or bar and see value, instead of circle jerking in front of a monitor that contains some digits. 

Another nice feature of gold and silver is it does not require a password.


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:30 | 4222615 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

I downvoted you for your moniker, and couldn't be bothered to read what you posted because of it!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:39 | 4222650 jcaz
jcaz's picture

"Speculative investment"?

Umm, isn't it supposed to be a currency?

Such a fine line between clever and stupid.....

Next stop is zero when people stop accepting it as tender, dude-  pretty simple.

At least you were smart enough not to buy any......

BUWHAHAHAHAHAAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:46 | 4222689 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

Yes it is supposed to be a currency.  As said, it's just a shitty one right now if stable value is of some importance to you.  It actually works very well otherwise...

And of course its an investment... I can put fiat in it right now and get a shit ton more out of it if I played my cards right, but I don't.

I'm just a poor engineer with a family to feed.  I find this interesting, but not so much I'm throwing money at it.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 05:01 | 4223934 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Stable value?
This currency has no value. It has an exchange rate.
Money has value.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:28 | 4222821 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 Nothing wrong with the current system of exchange.  Only criminals don't like it.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:10 | 4223197 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

ILoveDebt: Yep, my exposure to BTC is also zero. However, if you ever do acquire some and need a place to send them just light up this addy: 1K7YC5XCmt7ArEvqRFTYwoHKRE4CeafTeP

So far nobody has fallen for my trap...

Seriously, I don't begrudge anyone who believes in BTC. I've discussed my situation with SEEK, one of the most knowledgable BTC people on this forum. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me, which is why I need a shipping container to store all the WB7 art I bought this year.

Now, if all you BitcheZ keep fighting I'll send you straight to your rooms with no snacks!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:08 | 4223591 seek
seek's picture

"So far nobody has fallen for my trap..."

Until now... Check your wallet.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 02:01 | 4223818 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

SEEK: I hope you didn't do that. I have a HUGE amount of respect for you and my post was in jest. I will return anything you sent.

I just saw your post now and will check. You can contact me directly at silverstuff_at_hush_com  - No worries, I sort the wheat from the chaff on that one and once I take a peek at certain things we will have direct speaks. So far MultiBit isn't showing anything.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:39 | 4227656 seek
seek's picture

Actually I did but for some reason the transaction didn't clear the last two days. It just got dumped into the blockchain about two hours ago (two days later.) No idea waht the glitch was about though bitcoin-qt did bug me about network connections for a while, so maybe that.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:48 | 4223291 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I  hate AAPL and I hate MSFT and I hate pennystock miners and I'm glad I touch NONE of it.
I am happy to see each face dire straights because it shows their true failures.
Bitcoin is no different.

In the end bitcoin will fail for proper, good reasons. Watching suckers like you declare it going up after a correction will lose it all. ALL.

It's properly entertaining to watch suckers go bankrupt. It's not enough to say "I told you so". When you're this arrogant the best reward is seeing you end up begging for food at the road side.

You were warned & as far opposite of humble or cautious as you could be. You brought it on yourself.

your smugness tells me you have a fair bit more than 0.00000

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:16 | 4222544 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

        In other news : Lamborghini Dealer arrested for grand theft auto in New Porsche Beach Ca.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:15 | 4222551 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

Baidon't

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:17 | 4222557 Itch
Itch's picture

7% ticks...lol.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:21 | 4222576 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

If I am Satoshi I am an anonymous billionaire and I would stay put in whatever Fujiyama aerie/silent dojo/meditation hall he has set himself up in.  I would stay hid good :0)

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:34 | 4222621 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Heh, you think there is a real Satoshi? It's a cool back story the spooks came up with to appeal to the geek squad. They had to make the arrival of digital currency appear organic. If they rolled that bullshit out like Obongocare you can guess the reception by a .gov weary public.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:24 | 4222591 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

You know what sucks, if it goes down for too long, the profitability for the miners disapears and people shut the servers down, then the network will pretty much self-destruct lol.

 

Very dangerous.

I mean sure, you could have crazy swings, that last a day or two, but if bitcoin stayed in the red for more than a week, you would have serious issues as servers went off line to save electricity.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:31 | 4222617 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

ASICS are both a curse and a blessing in that sense.  What else are these people going to do with thousands of dollars of hardware that can't do anything but hash SHA256?  They won't shutdown because they have nothing else to do.  Also, if they saw the hash rate going down across the network, they would stand to gain even more bitcoins if the difficulty dropped.  It's going to take a long time to convince the gamblers that bought ASICS that they aren't going to make a fortune - certainly more than a few weeks. 

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:35 | 4222633 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The difficulty can move up or down? I was under the impression it could only move higher.

Interesting.

 

I am suddenly hoping that a prolongued blackout occurs in China.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:50 | 4222707 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

Bitcoins are designed to be awarded every 10 minutes.  If the miners throw more hasing power at it and the average over something like 2012 blocks is less than 10 minutes, the difficult goes up. 

Conversely, if everyone quit, and it took the remaining miners 20 minutes on average to solve the problem, the difficulty would be halved the next 2012 blocks. 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:42 | 4223283 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

but the difficulty WON'T drop with the hashrate down - the existing bitcoins increase the difficulty.
And the cost of power use won't go down: to continue to operate is a loss, to stop is a lesser loss (only the spending to date).

Doesn't matter who's convinced: when the power bill's too high & the profit is zero, it's a loss, the power is shut off and it WILL stop.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:38 | 4222637 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

Bitcoin developer admits he works for the Feds!

http://12160.info/forum/topics/bitcoin-developer-confirms-he-s-working-w...

Pretty much explains all the pro-bitcoin trolls up in here lately...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:42 | 4222665 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

Do you believe any bullshit you read online, or only the bullshit you like? Watch the whole video sometime.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:02 | 4222694 seek
seek's picture

Someone already spammed that link yesterday. Here's my reply: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-05/citi-bitcoin-could-look-attract...

The TL;DR summary: the developer said no such thing, and that site takes his statement was taken so far beyond the context of what he said that it's an outright lie.

Don't believe me? Watch the video the site linked to.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:41 | 4222669 NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

:) So now we have the doomsday posts here. Great. Do any of you guys how many times BTC has been "doomed" since the start?. In April it crashed 75%. And its still here. You guys are really funny.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:38 | 4223274 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You're funny. Each such crash WEAKENS a currency.
Once they happen enough times it's over.
How many times can a currency crash 75%?
Before no one ever dares touch it EVER again?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:22 | 4223383 seek
seek's picture

You should read Antifragile by Taleb. It might change your mind about crashes weakening a currency (or market, or anything, actually.)

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 02:49 | 4223846 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

he's wrong.

Many things once said to be 'anti-fragile' are utterly destroyed. Bitcoin will be no different.

Already lost 46% in just 2 days. That's not anti-fragile, that's ball-busted & epically weak.

Lost 31.5% of usable trade value in just 5 HOURS. h0uRz d00d!

Anti-fragile is a myth but if anything is opposite of anti-fragile it's showing right now in bitcoin. It's screaming off a cliff, high on LSD, and all the bit-BagHolders are chained to it flying high on peyote.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:40 | 4223275 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You're funny. Each such crash WEAKENS a currency.
Once they happen enough times it's over.
How many times can a currency crash 75%?
Before no one ever dares touch it EVER again?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:48 | 4222691 Miramanee
Miramanee's picture

I see it this way: I work for a living. I don't make a lot of money, but enough to get by. I have two sets of investments, one conservative and safe and one entirely speculative. I gamble with a few thousand dollars here and there. If it goes poof, no worries. If it hits, cool. I have about $2k in crypto. I will pull my hard drive (not throw it away) in a little while and forget about it...and in 5 years I'll see where things stand. If I lose my $2k, so what. if I make some money, fine. And if fiat collapses altogether and the algos prevail, I will cash out. But none of it means shit. I remain happy regardless.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:49 | 4222703 Audacity17
Audacity17's picture

For a cryptocurrency to be stable, you need a 1)large float, 2)mostly mined already and 3)an established value relationship vs sovereign currencies due to widespread adoption.  

Since BTC only has half of its 24 million coins out, and hasn't been readily adopted by the majority of people, fluctuations are expected.  

 

I own a bigger float currency, but will not mention it, as my intention is not to bash BTC.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:54 | 4222723 geewhiz
geewhiz's picture

Its buying time again

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 16:58 | 4222740 q99x2
q99x2's picture

BAIDU is Dodo.

I sent Mr and Mrs. Gox an email. They replied back that as soon as their tech guy gets back from the bar they are going to have him look into it.

This ain't about money. This is about freedom.


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:10 | 4222766 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

"This ain't about money. This is about freedom."

Digital currency has nothing to do with freedom. After it has been made to appeal to the masses, it's true face will be shown. Welcome to slavery.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 18:36 | 4222978 itchy166
itchy166's picture

currency that isnt debt, is untraceable, is untaxable, and can move across borders undetected isnt about freedom?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:31 | 4223108 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Maybe I misunderstand what you and the others are saying, but it sounds like this:

"I will unshackle myself from the central banks' fiat currencies!  We will destroy the central banks!"

So, "no one, absolutely no one" (wink wink) is interested in exchanging their Btc for USD or Euros etc??

Let's go with the premise that cryptocurrencies free from the CB's are the inevitable future.  So now everyone has a wallet of Btc et al.  Why would ANYONE give you ANYTHING in exchange for one?  The only possible reasons are:

1) there is no other choice for a means of exchange.  THAT is laughable.

2) someone with a gun to my head says that I can't use anything else to buy/sell goods & services.  Ok, I'll bite: exactly who will that be?

"Oh, but they're so difficult to mine/obtain and they are scarce".  So is my navel lint. 

"Oh, but they are a means of long distance exchange."  So is VISA ad nauseum.

If you remove the ability to exchange the virtual currency for the "real" thing, then your virtual is worthless.

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:14 | 4223209 itchy166
itchy166's picture

Bitcoin makes it possible to exchange in a currency that requires no debt or interest payments.  It is impossible to tax earnings in bitcoin.  There is no fee or record created when moving money across international borders.  Try to send $100,000 to Iran tomorrow in any other currency other than Bitcoin - good luck...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:16 | 4223214 itchy166
itchy166's picture

And, in my city, I can buy gold directly with bitcoin (anonymously) without ever transfering into USD.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:36 | 4223264 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

people buying a can for $1.50 of soda or a loaf of bread don't care about any debt attached to dollars. Doesn't matter.
When they are accepted they are used, when they are not they will not be used. It's that simple.
Bitcoin has no benefit over dollars in this regard for daily use.
For long-term value possibly BUT the counter-argument is that you will have no choice in paying taxes using ONLY the fiat of the land & prison if you do not pay.

There is ALWAYS a record created for EVERY TRANSFER no matter if there is a border or not with bitcoin. Go check. You are in error.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:32 | 4223402 itchy166
itchy166's picture

I agree, most dont realize that the $100 bill in their wallet cost $0.07 to print.  And most dont understand money at all.

As far as your position on Bitcoin, you are in error, there is NEVER a record, unless you choose there to be one...go check...

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 02:55 | 4223850 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I am not in error. To de-synch from the network means to no longer be participating IN bitcoin. All transactions are computed across the network to a distributed leger otherwise duplicate wallet ownership of the same bitcoin would be possible.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:34 | 4223259 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

bitcoin's 100% traceable - it needs the network to be used (unless bartering usb sticks for goods with btc confirmed on them).
It can be detected at all border crossings and all network traffic.
Border crossings have machines that can read object on you, such as a storage device.
Perhaps you understand much less about bitcoin than you think.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:32 | 4223405 itchy166
itchy166's picture

Nope, wallets on paper... easily done, and impossible to trace

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:34 | 4223409 itchy166
itchy166's picture

Or how many Bitcoin fit on a microdisk?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:38 | 4223416 itchy166
itchy166's picture

If you can figure out how many I own to the third decimal, they are yours :)

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 03:06 | 4223858 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I don't want them - they have no value to me. I only hold items of value - each one must be comprised of atomic nucleus & chemical structure. Beginning, end, period. Electrons aren't money to me.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 02:55 | 4223851 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

in that case also impossible to use. In order to transact & keep everyone up to date on who currently owns the bitcoin in question the network must be active.
Removing yourself from the network means that your wallet's invalid if it doesn't agree with the majority.
It also means if you used a digital copy to spend a bitcoin & then traded a paper copy of a bitcoin without network verification a person would be left with NO bitcoin, just an expired piece of paper.

Tracing is EXPLICIT in bitcoin's function.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:13 | 4222772 Goldilocks
Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:19 | 4222793 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Jury is still out on BTC and it might be the sacrificial lamb that paves the way for other crypto currencies but prefer to watch from the sidelines...

 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:09 | 4223066 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

There is a reason some of us dable in the alternatives that are 1% of the price.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:26 | 4222813 Smuckers
Smuckers's picture

Faith in Bitcoin <ANAGRAM> Habit in Fiction.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 17:36 | 4222839 deerhunter
deerhunter's picture

To Ebworthen,,, how did you do deerhunting?  I took a nice 8 pointer with my bow.  Still need to take a doe.  The buck resulted in a phone call to my son in law to help drag him out of the woods.  All my mining this time of year has to do with deer and not bitcoins.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 18:02 | 4222899 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

Congrats!!

One of the things I REALLY MISS HERE IN NYC!

Cheesecake for backstrap?? :)

Three more years....than some deer are going to fucking pay.

 

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