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Bitcoin Crashes, Loses Half Of Its Value In Two Days
It was inevitable that a few short days after Wall Street lovingly embraced Bitcoin as their own, with analysts from Bank of America, Citigroup and others, not to mention the clueless momentum-chasing, peanut gallery vocally flip-flopping on the "currency" after hating it at $200 only to love it at $1200 that Bitcoin... would promptly crash. And crash it did: overnight, following previously reported news that China's Baidu would follow the PBOC in halting acceptance of Bitcoin payment, Bitcoin tumbled from a recent high of $1155 to an almost electronically destined "half-off" touching $576 hours ago, exactly 50% lower, on very heave volume, before a dead cat bounce levitated the currency back to the $800 range, where it may or may not stay much longer, especially if all those who jumped on the bandwagon at over $1000 on "get rich quick" hopes and dreams, only to see massive losses in their P&Ls decide they have had enough.
Which incidentally, like gold, is to be expected when one treats what is explicitly as a currency on its own merits in a world of dying fiat - with the appropriate much required patience - instead of as an asset, with delusions of grandure that some greater fool will pay more for it tomorrow than it is worth today. Sadly, in a world of HFT trading, patience is perhaps the most valuable commodity.
As for Bitcoin, while the bubble may or may not have burst, and is for now kept together with the help of the Winklevoss bros bid, all it would take is for another very vocal institutiona rejection be it in China or domestically, where its "honeypot" features are no longer of use to the Fed or other authorities, for the euphoria to disappear as quickly as it came...
Two day chart, showing the epic move from $1155 to $576 in hours:
And longer term chart showing the overnight action in its full glory:
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I don't think the criticism that Bitcoin is too volatile is fair. How could it not be volatile? No one knows what it is worth yet. But the market seems to be saying that it has _some_ value. If nothing significant changes (i.e., the system is hacked or it's made 'officially' illegal) then it isn't going to $0. Not when it's been over $1000 and nothing has changed. Even though it's fiat, it's the best fiat you could ask for: limited and private. Hendry says they may hit $1 million some day. That would give it a market cap of $21 trillion. I guess that's the scenario where it replaces the dollar.
I don't think BTC is a currency, I think it's a service.
The service it provides is valuable, but services of equal value can be provided by competitors.
That is exactly correct. There is currently a duration risk with bitcoin similar to that with gold and silver. When silver went through its recent correction, my local coin dealer increased the spread he charged on 1 oz silver coins to $5-6 dollars to protect himself against the price of silver falling further in the near term. I expect the same to happen with merchants vis-a-vis bitcoin. They will start charging a vig over the spot price of bitcoin to account for duration risk.
but there is no duration risk for vendors with bitcoin. There are vendor services that will immediately exchange BTC for FRN's as soon as the sale takes place.
Gold coins serve the exact same function, and (unlike Bitcoin) have the added benefit of being entirely untraceable (in transactions under $10,000.00).
Additionally, there is far less duration risk with precious metals.
If I want to buy a meal for $27 and I have a chunk of gold, how do you give me change? How do I know your scales are correct and how do you know my chunk of gold isn't plated tungsten? Gold is a shitty means of performing transactions.
JFC - you don't cash in gold for meals. You have a core holding of Au that is a store of wealth just like your farm/homestead or retirement account (that should never be in fiat btw). You should also have a percentage of your wealth in Ag. For day to day expenses you use whatever you get paid in - be it barter, fiat, or crypto-currency. You only cash-out PMs for major purchases/emergencies. If we ever reverted to a barter/PM based local economy, those bags of junk silver and nickels you've got will come in very handy though. =]
Yes exactly physical gold in this environment is long term store of value and hedge not a currency or money. I look at it as the equivalent of the bank of sealy posturepedic that don't have lay on as the reason for holding gold concerning savings. But it is only one facet not the whole game.
There's no weighing involved unless you're way off the radar, in which case you better know what you are doing. When gold is money again, it will be the money. It won't be set at a fixed rate of $, it will be the dollars. When we transact, it will generally be done digitally and our account will be debited X milligrams for a given transaction.
Gold is a shitty means of performing transactions.
This is why - when gold was money - people carried around paper receipts for gold called dollars. Because a dollar was worth approx. 1/20 of an ounce.
For smaller transactions, there were silver and copper coins.
Sucks getting that gold coin to me as salary when I'm traveling to Singapore but my employers are in Londen. From personal experience, BTC works wonders in this case. I refuse to work for fiat.
That is one of the important characteristics of BTC that interests me as well, even if this does not apply to most here at ZH. Transfers nicely...
yeah, except when you got paid in bitcoin last friday and you want to buy something today. This volitility is why bitcoin
is not a digital currency is is active ponzi for traders to jerk around fools and take their money.
If you think bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, then you don't know what a ponzi scheme is. Ponzi schemes claim to invest money but instead pay older investors with fresh money from new investors.
If bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, then so is gold.
silversurfer, if you have a better solution to my problem, I'd love to hear it. In the meantime keep scrounging for them dollars.
Bitcoin transactions are entirely untraceable in any size. It just depends on how you transfer/use them.
What does the hippie think?
That's what all the gamblers in Vegas keep telling themselves isn't it?
Voice from the peanut gallery: "What's good enough for gold is good enough for bitcoin." After all, gold is currently on sale now, right? Right? At least Bitcoin gives 'em plenty of opportunity to BTFD and STFT. And if you miss the dip / top, don't worry, just wait till next week.
Disclaimer: I own no bitcoin and probably because I am too busy / slack to look into it and probably will never buy any until my gf has heard of bitcoin and urges me to buy some because my local shoe-shine boy with a part-time job as a lift operator has mortgaged his house to buy a time share arrangement of a bitcoin because someone told him that they always go up.
Disclaimer 2: I do not really know any shoe-shine boys or lift operators, although I have been assured that bit-coin investors eventually get the urge to widen their skill-base into these two areas.
Don't worry, there's a big dip coming and it might last a while...
You'll have plenty opportunity to buy at the bottom...
Mirror, mirror on the wall, when is the "biggest dip" of them all? Did you successfully predict the ramp up in BTC? Why should I think anything of your analysis on the subject now?
Because you're an idiot and you have no idea what you're doing.
For you it will be the last one, and this is the beginning of it.
To bad there was no way you could have foreseen this crash he?
to bad you didn't sell at 1200$....
God should have given you a sign or something...
Fucking wake up. You're gonna have this same argument next week after Bitcoin doubles and halves again. Then you'll be writing the same thing again the following week. You don't have to like it. Just see it for what it is - something that can bounce around for a lot longer than we can watch without getting dizzy. No way did I expect real estate prices to remain above the clouds for the last 13 years, but that is what happened. If RE and equities don't make sense, why should bitcoin? Someone misses selling for $1200 this week, they'll get the opportunity next week. Not saying bitcoin ain't a scam. I got no idea. Just saying that this ain't the first time bitcoin's demise has been predicted. For all we know it might crash tomorrow, or it might plateau tomorrow, or it might continue to bounce for the next ten decades. Unless you know something I don't.
the bitcoin fans i know are all gamers and daytraders. step away from the box and get some fresh air once in a while
https://btc-e.com/
Read the chat box for a few minutes, and if you don't lose your mind, you will know everything you need to know about BTC 'early adopters' and 'investors'.
You should see the alt coin chat boxes, where they openly talk about trying to move the price of an alt coin, or plan which coin to mine to raise its difficulty, or negotiate trades in the coins that are on the exchange, but to trade outside the exchange to avoid fees and prevent the sale from moving the price.
So they are acting like Wall Street insiders do?
It is not a regulated system and voluntary participation. Risk comes with territory. No risk no reward. If don't have the stomach there is always mommy government's system skirts you can go hide under if that is not your thing. Mommy will always make everything nice and safe as Roger Water's once sang.
props DCH, love it when somebody comes out swinging
It's a bunch of tech savvy bums hoping to hit the lottery, so they can continue being bums and drink skimmed milk lattes and play with fuckin chinchillas all day.
Guess you'll be even happier in the double and single digits, then.
my local coin store says they're currently out of bitcoins
s'ok, .. s'normal...yeah...
exactly
1Nq1jeBrRSXyRmywmDwu4tcyvjMq9ruRXE
I expect the highs and lows to become less extreme over time, such that speculating in BTC as an asset gives way to exchange in a generally appreciating monetary unit and depreciating fiat currencies are abandoned accordingly.
If so, then the state as we know it will be on its way to becoming a thing of the past, the sooner the better.
Meanwhile, here again is the brilliant Stefan Molyneaux on BTC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6F91dFYCs
Via Brotherjohnf; silver price "fixing"
https://www.silverfixing.com
I thought let's put some real money on this thread.
LBMA 'fixing' the price of silver. If the fucking crooks hadn't broken the price of silver then it wouldn't need 'fixing'.
Stack On
The down legs were very strong and the base it formed is weak. It looks like this has to work down and test $500 again. If $500 doesn’t hold, then $200 is definitely on the table because recent hot money will panic.
I'm a buyer at $100. Same for $10 silver or $500 gold, will buy as much as possible at thsoe levels.
you're going to be waiting a very long time for $500 gold.
jomama, I think you are correct. If gold gets to $500, that would be "paper gold" only. At $500, there will likely be NO physical gold available.
(from FOFOA)
Every two weeks the PBOC tells Baidu giant to stick it up it's ass with it's idea to accept bitcoin?
Listen, it very simple, this was a great bubble, some bought at cents and sold at thousand and became millionaires.
Nice ride, Bitcoin won't dissapear, but it's no fun anymore. If you buy at really low prices, you really don't give a shit what the variations in price are, you will win either more or a lot. It's the best way not to suffer, not to take big chances.
Litecoin has risen up exponentially since Bitcoin rose up to the thousands, sign that mundane people (those who are not specially solvent) have jumped into Litecoin (another bubbling cryptocurrency project).
Until bitcoin isn't accepted in most shops and stores, don't expect it to have any reasonable weight.
Besides, TPTB do not want our freedom or loose control, so better take advantage of bubbles and invest those gains in becoming more independent and self-sufficient from the nasty gov't.
You can hang around with bitcoins, as long as you bought them really cheap, otherwise you are going to have a rocky ride.
Unless that money you used to invest really was spare change.
Hey Joe, where's the next bubble?
...like bees from flower to flower.
I've followed LTC for 3 weeks at most, and I've seen it go from $6 to $40, now back to $23.
Not my bag, baby.
I feel bad for whomever was suckered into buying at $1200
Why? If they purchased all at once, at least they had the opportunity to learn the value of buying in over time, rather than jumping in head first all at once.
If they paniced and dumped it all at $500, then they also have the opportunity to learn not to trade on emotion.
Matt "Why? If they purchased all at once, at least they had the opportunity to learn the value of buying in over time, rather than jumping in head first all at once".
Comment:
It's not about the value of buying over time. It's about buying value despite the time. The current problem is there is no stable assessed value of bitcoins, thus its wild moves up and down.
What one is learning now is that this is a speculative market regardless if one jumps in head first or waits. Since it is a new market with wild swings, even if one waits, one is still speculating because it is an unproven market, one that isn't established enough to the point it has garnered some price stability.
It is ironic, that bitcoin is claimed to be an alternative to fiat because fiat is controlled and manipulated by central banks, thus manipulated markets and price instability. Yet, bitcoins is also price instable because of the lack of transparency and I have yet to see anyone talk about that.
A true bitcoiner never says he's sorry for encouraging people to buy into a top.
Obviously you have different views, but my analysis says any bitcoin below $10k is dirt cheap. Risk is not very well quantified into my analysis and anyways is always an intensely personal calculation. Put some lunch money in and forget about it.
Meh. First world problems - it's only money they lost; other parts of the world they're losing lives/limbs.
Bitcoin didn't lose anything, it's USD who doubled in value.
Yes. And the "metals only" community borrowing all the same FUD tactics used on them by the cartel? Pathetic.
Rev. fonestar said:
It really depends on whether one's goal is saving or speculation. When buying gold/silver in 2006-2008, my goal was saving, so as to have a reserve of purchasing power insurance, and I had (and have) more long-term confidence in metal than paper. I wasn't looking for a trade or to get rich quick via speculation.
Some people enjoy speculation, and some even profit from it. Good for them. I don't have the time to spend or capital to risk on speculation. I'd rather spend my time on gaining knowledge and useful skills and I'd rather spend my disposable capital on books, tools, materials, and scientific equipment. But hey, everybody focuses on what they consider important.
I really don't care one way or another about bitcoins. Maybe they're a genuinely revolutionary breakthrough in means of exchange, maybe not. Time will tell, and if they become a common and widely accepted currency, I'll use them at that time. I won't miss out on their potential benefits by waiting until then. I might miss out on speculative gains, but that doesn't matter since there is no loss in delaying adoption.
As a saver, my view on bitcoins is like my view on the dollar: I don't see the store-of-value utility, whereas gold and silver have had that utility for dozens of centuries.
What you fail to see, and really how could you in your religious fervor, is that your bitcoins as a speculative trade are no different than the speculative trade in metals, stocks, real estate, commodities, bonds, T-bills, FX, and other paper products. Some people will profit handsomely, some people will lose their asses, and many will spend a great deal of precious time going back and forth between a little above and a little below breaking even. Bitcoin is just the new guy.
I won't speak for anyone's personal integrity, but if we are to keep our INTELLECTUAL integrity, we absolutely MUST point out that short-term and long-term price fluctuations or positions DO matter.
In a short-term variation, only Speculators are affected, insofar they might have to either cover borrowed money (margin) or they cash in at a loss.
In the long-term variation, Investors (looking for ROI over longer timeframe) and Savers (looking to preserve value of fiat) get 'burned'.
Given the fast changes (short timeframe) in BTC, it is clear (for IQ > 95) that no Investors or Savers have yet been impacted.
Now... Given the Long-term slide in PM, it is quite likely that its Speculators got burned by TPTB and are whining accordingly. PM Investors may have been been 'burned' if they invested in PM in the last 12 months. Savers may also have been 'burned' by PM in the last 12 months, if they had to cash in for some unexpected reason/emergency. Even if they did not have to cash in any PM, they could've bought way more today than a year ago. Unfortunately/fortunately, NPV and Opportunity Cost DO matter.
If we are to stick to facts and financial math, and keep "investment religion" out of our discussions.
In light of everything above, medium-term slide in PM prices DO matter, as do long-term slides in currency debauchery through 'printing' (reckless increase to the currency supply, that is then made available only to a tiny subset/elite of the economy's population).
IOW, the 100 slide of the USD is an absolutely valid argument, and a large motivation for many Bitcoin Investors.
BTW, a smart investor will spread his holdings into various asset classes and types (that includes RE, stocks, cash, PM and Bitcoin), whereas a dumbass ('investor' in name only) will risk his holdings mostly in one basket. In spite of the time-proven Golden/PM basket, having only that basket is unwise and risky -- given how Murphy's Laws tend to work: odds are, just when you need your PM the most, its currency price will 'suck'.
Hedge and diversify accordingly. If you have the fiat, smarts and balls. Else, rather than "making history" (yeah!), you may "experience" it or read about it (ouch!) and lament/bitch accordingly. Good luck.
P.s. I hope you will be one of those who'll go Yeah. But even if you end up going Ouch, ZH will be more than happy to have you lament/bitch on their site. Because even bitching is "good for business" on ZH... All posts and clicks create the "wealth effect" for blog site owners. ;-)
Many nice points, Captain Kirk.
Especially:
"BTW, a smart investor will spread his holdings into various asset classes and types (that includes RE, stocks, cash, PM and Bitcoin),..."
***
Diversification is one of this bearing's middle names.
Diversification or diworsification? Depends on where you're at in life I guess. I like things a little crazy myself.
Ever hear of the saying: "Don't put all of your eggs in one basket?" That is very sage advice - and the advent of crypto-currencies don't change this reality.
The electronic nature of BitCoin and it's BitClones leaves it very open to black swan events. That risk must be taken into consideration.
What would happen, for instance, if a targeted Stuxnet-type virus were released that could corrupt the code used in folks' e-wallets? or just tagged along and messed with retailers' servers. Hell, even the rumor of something like that could cause huge problems.
fonestar, I am almost 58. I am thinking about what may happen when our kid gets married (soon?, who knows, we're the last to learn these things). For me, holding gold, our bearing business in Peru, no debt and holding BTC makes a lot of sense.
A little crazy and a little BTC makes life more interesting no doubt. I am on your side.
But, since I do not know what will happen, I hedge accordingly.
Fonestar: "Pathetic"
A little butt-hurt are we, Fonestar?
He didn't crash Bitcoin all by himself.
Correct knukles, that was me. I bought Bitcoin, so it's my fault.
Not true.
The guy that makes a washing machine sells it to the person that needs to do their clothes. That time saved from washing clothes can be used to go out and make more money that the cost of the washing machine. Not everything is a zero sum game. There is a certain synergy in many economic activities.
Another example is that two horses can pull more weight together than one can pull individually because they work off each other's strengths and compensate for each other's weaknesses.
You are talking about productive employment. I am sorry to tell you but it does not exist any more. It has been replaced by magical employment which is much easier and produces things out of thin air such as money for example. Please try to keep up.
Thank you! The million dollar elephant in this room: what are these people going to spend the bitcoin on? A college education for them or their kids to better themselves and prepare for a wholesome, fulfilling career? Oh lulz...
We have way bigger problems than the monetary problem: we have a human problem.
http://www.fakenation.info/please/beauty-not-bitcoin-will-save-the-world
Dear Tyler, this is not full story.
1,several days ago besides Baidu there is another important support for Bitcoin in China - China Telecom.
After Baidu temporarily suspend (or say pernamently stopped) bitcoin payment, Chinese people finally know that China telecom will be next (because this one represent government)
2, Ministry of security (the most important goverment department) doesn't say anything, they are watching. they ask bitcoin trading website e.g. BTCChina, Okcoin etc to register everyone's detail information including copy of personal identification, I think most of speculators don't want those registration (like in jail), so someone simply quit
3, some website shut down during cliff drop, make speculators panic, they put more sell orders and make more website shut down
Seems like using pretend money isn't the wisest decision.
Yeah, dollars are pretty shitty.
"A Simpleton's Theory of Value"
By Egonschilde von Shitsferbrains
You've been bit rolled.
still upvoting your own posts, i see.
How are Bitcoins different from World of Warcraft money?
WoW has no limit to how many coins can be created. Bitcoin limit is about 21M by the year 2140 and those coins can be divided up currently to 8 decimal places but protocol changes could make 1 bitcoin infinitely divisible if needed.
WoW has no limit to the rate of inflation. Bitcoin is limited to approx 25 coins per 10 minutes, which cuts in half every 4 years.
WoW has no way for money holders to access the general ledger. Bitcoins can be tracked by anyone and everyone has a copy of the ledger can validate anyone else.
WoW is controlled by a central authority. Bitcoin is distributed and the power to control the currency is divided among the entire world, namely anyone who is running the Bitcoin wallet.
Wow and Bitcoin both require the user to own a poopsock.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poop%20sock
Your comment is so stupid.
Explain to us, for starters, how a medium of exchange can can be tracked by anyone and at the same time cannot be controlled by a central authority.
Also the US dollar can be divided up currently to 2 decimal places but protocol changes could make 1 US dollar infinitely divisible if needed.
The amount of US Dollars that can be created is also limited, because of the unique serial number printed on each bill: to about (26^2 * 10^9) * ($100 + $50 +$20 +10 + $5 + $1) because the serial number is in format AA99999999.
However remember protocol changes could make <whatever> if needed!
You have to understand bitcoin to know these things. Basically, everyone has a copy of every bitcoin transaction ever made. If I say I own 20000 bitcoins, I have to provide my public address to the network along with a transaction record if i want to buy something or send someone some of my bitcoins. My "transaction" is signed with my private address, the address I never give out to anyone. Only my public address can validate my private address. Therefore, everyone can validate that A) I have a ledger entry where 20000 bitcoins got sent to my public address and just as importantly, B) My public address validates my privately signed transaction.
A central authority has no way of "printing" bitcoins because the protocol as a whole simply doesn't allow it. New transactions are validated from previous transactions
It has long been known that if you controlled at least half of the world's bitcoin wallets, you could split the block chain and do pretty much anything but the more "common folks" that run the wallet at home, the more secure the system is.
It doesn't help to go deeper and deeper into minute details.
You at least imply bitcoins cannot be controlled by a central authority.
As long as your body and physical needs cannot be digitized and sent over the internet -encrypted if necessary-, your local authority can hinder you very effectively to use bitcoins as a medium of exchange for local transactions.
So the "no control" argument is a fallacy.
The "limited" supply is meaningless as well, as nobody knows if tomorrow someone introduces bitcoin 2.0 with 10x as much coins and a majority jumps ship and onto the new bandwagon.
In that case some central authority would actually be helpful to not have the rules changed all the time.
(Yes, we also don't know if tomorrow the majority shuns gold and opts for example for Rhodium instead. But in this case of ambiguity I fallback on history's judgement, as it's usually not different this time.)
So covsire, say I take a WoW character and pillage someones BTC wallet on the interwebs and make off with some coins, can I spend them in WoW or do I need to launder the fake digital currency through an exchange and trade them in for fake paper currency before I can do that?
Sure knock yourself out.
"Greenspan opens his trap"
"fitting metaphor for Greenspan's mouth"
What did the trap just say, that the market is NOT a bubble? Right after he admitted that "we knew it (housing) was a bubble all along." What did he say at the time? The market was just frothy.
The market is up huge but not a bubble, so says Greenspan. The trap is open.
Hugh Hendry threw in the towel the other day, calling himself the last bear. Yesterday i read on ZH that a Hindenberg Omen has occurred. Perfect timing.
has that Tesla dealer gotten fired yet?
Considering that he actually managed to sell a tesla, he probably got promoted.
Some little teen age peckerhead name of Exponere Mendaces was schooling all us old timers on the Bitcoin for Tesla thread.
He was hysterically preaching that Bitcoin was taking over the worlsd, old guys were all fucked, and his youthful digital cadre of Bitcoin warriors were gonna take over the world.
Seems like the Black Friday half price sale fucked up his plans for world domination just a bit.
Reminded me of the young bull and the old bull on a hill looking down at the herd of cows.
Young bull says " Lets run down the hill, and fuck a few of them cows! "
Old bull says " No, son, let's walk down the hill, and fuck all of them ! "
TSLA timed BTC about as good as a fart in church...
OH NOOOOOoooooo !!!!
And FREDDOM TECH is........gone.
Shit.....Fuckstar's double shot espresso with organic goat's milk will now cost him twice as much......if the only coffee bar in town that accepts Shitcoint is still accepting Shitcoin.....or still in business for that matter. LOL !!
Quick.....buy that Tesla NOW Fuckstar......otherwise......I doubt you hedged enough Magic the Gathering cards or Beanie Babies to cash in to buy a Tesla. HAHAHAHAHAAAA !!!!
Of course it's crashing. Max Keiser has been talking it up the past month. Always late to the party that one...
He's been pumping it since about $5 so he is still up about 100x.
I wanna talk to fonestar
Please check the number and dial again......
Dial 1-888-lil-bitch
The S&P is up 30% ytd and it is FDIC insured. Why mess with this stuff?
Trick question?
http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/information/fdiciorn.html
Funny, the FDIC does not make me sleep better at night. As you one said...even if they market tanks BIG TIME...who will be around to pay the short side? That, mi amigo, has stuck in my head like a lawn dart.
Yeah man. I truly believe that is what we we are going to witness will be spectacular. With no real alternative to stawks left for everyone we could see markets just continue to plow to ridiculous levels. I mean I was interested in bitcoin but these moves have scared me off.
This is the grandest hostage scenario in history. All that is missing is the stockholm syndrome.
pretty funny link
http://blogs.wsj.com/privateequity/2013/12/05/recent-blackstone-deal-in-focus-on-the-daily-show/?mod=yahoo_hs
>> these moves have scared me off.
As intended. Same with the smash downs in gold. Message loud and clear.
"Same with the smash downs in gold"
Nah, next purchase will occur at $1100
>> next purchase
I was talking more general market psychology rather than you, per se.
"FDIC Insured" is like a "Jumbo Shrimp".
my gold will remain buried in the ground for another 10 years or so. let's see where it is priced then.
I'm convinced at this point we'll see sub-$1,000 gold within a year, if not a month or two. (Before the launch to the stratosphere sometime between 2015 and 2018.)
When you look at the blockchain transactions prior and during the bitcoin takedown, it was very reminicent of the April gold takedown -- it looked like someone spent about $5-$10M walking the BTC price down and sucking up liquidity yesterday on MtGox before dumping a single $25M order that blew out the bid stack. I've not checked out the blockchain for it, but I'm pretty sure based on the patterns there was a small dry run a few days before.
Until yesterday, I believe BTC was largely free of manipulation -- as of yesterday I don't think that's true anymore. We're dealing with actors that are perfectly comfortable losing millions to generate a particular market response, and that really only leaves governments and their agents (banks) as the candidates behind this. The irony is because of their inability to naked short, their purchases of BTC to be able to sell likely drove the price up prior to the crash. They can undermine faith in BTC, but I'm not so sure they can kill it thanks to them not being able to use their old tricks.
To borrow a line from Terminator: The Fed is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.
agreed all around. so go long stawks, short the miners, and take gains and buy real stuff. take what is given and use it to your advantage.
Even though stawks have been up since 2008 due to QE, I still think it's picking up pennies in front of a steamroller being in them at any time. I'm long cash/gold/BTC and food and other "necessities," many of which have NSN's assigned to them.
We're living in a psychotic mad max world right now, with a happy veneer put on top.
seek wrote: "I'm long cash/gold/BTC and food and other "necessities,..."
+ a million.
Preparation through diversity is how those of us will make it through all of this.
To say the manipulation started yesterday is RIDICULOUS.
I watched LTC be ramped from $6 3 weeks ago, to $40 a week ago. So that was just normal market action in your opinion?
Well, the groundwork for the plunge had to happen slowly in advance of the sale, so there would be some impact on pricing from those purchases -- so there'd be modest influences. For bitcoin, to make the plunge happen it took about $30M USD in sales -- those same purchases were likely spread over weeks or months prior, so frankly, the manipulation impact over that time would be nothing compared to what happened in a couple hours.
I lived through the silver and gold boom in the late 70s/early 80s. Silver was manipulated by the Hunt brothers, but gold went up largely because a lot of people were buying in and you get mania. I think the runup on cryptocurrencies was comprise of organic development, mania, and modest manipulation, and the crash was driven my substantial manipulation and reverse mania; the organic development is why we have a floor that's still above $500.
I seriously doubt the people that went after bitcoin gave a rat's ass about LTC -- I think it was just bleedover of the mania by people who felt BTC was too expensive. Virtually all altcoins rose strongly with bitcoin and I seriously doubt the Fed or anyone else cared about namecoin or anything outside of bitcoin. But they did care about bitcoin, and knew starting a run would leak over into everything else.
What TPTB are doing with bitcoin is no different than what they do to small fry who short gold and silver. They crush them like bugs. TPTB probably owned most of the bitcoin stock initially. They manipulate the price higher, and people like fonestar and CH1 buy on the way up. TPTB then crush the value of bitcoin, and the small fry panic and sell their bitcoin back to the TPTB. It's like stealing candy from a baby.
seek, I pray the yellow metal dips lower so I can buy some of those luscious Perth Mint Snakes and new Horsies.
Funny, the Daily show audience, on average, probably has no idea that this is not even the tip of the iceberg...rather just a little snowflake.
I just hope the system can stay together a bit longer....because you are correct...whatever happens will be spectacular.
Reminds me of the movie Seven...I just hope my head does not end up in a box.
Have a good weekend!
you guys do the same
Thanks for that link.
"Unfortunately this video is unable to be shown in your location." Oh well, I think the text explained it all. Makes me wonder about the "freeness" of the internet though.
Hmm, 1.3x or 100x, yea you are right, why bother, same difference.
"That's why I'm richer than you."
Bit "the dust" Coin?
Still the best performing asset 3 years running.
Everyone who ordered video cards to mine the alt coins is probably thinking of canceling them right now lol
I know I am.
Can those cards be used for any alternate purpose? Like processing photographs or playing games?
I figured that's half the reason this was made :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gtXhFzOBRw
Nvidia cards are, at best, 33% as fast at mining as comparable AMD cards. I'm pretty sure the Titans would consume more electricity than they would produce in alt coins.
Ok...bring on Litecoin!!!!!
You joke, but they did the same thing with Friendster and MySpace before setteling on FB.
edit: not my junk.
The ultimate champion will be Bigcoin™
Buy now or be priced out forever...
Like it has crashed 637 times before.
It's brand new and just started getting media attention. All the weak hands are flushed out.
The dollar has lost 98% of its value over the last 100 years. Let that sink in. If you earned a dollar 100 years ago it's worth 2 pennies today. Kill yourself.
That's getting your "two-cents" worth.
Arbitrage opportunities in price swings........
Oh so Bitcoin is still a good thing cause it "crashed 637 times before" and it's "brand new" !!?? What fucking sense does that make!?
Oh duh.. It is true that a sucker is born every minute!
"Every business day in London, five banks meet to set the price of gold"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-25/how-gold-price-manipulated-duri...
G'luck
It's a great thing, for speculation not investment, for those with the time and willingness to play the various markets and price swings.
Windows 95 Bitchez
??????
He said, "Oh so Bitcoin is still a good thing cause it "crashed 637 times before" and it's "brand new" !!?? What fucking sense does that make!?"
To which I say, Windows 95, Bitchez.
Buying msft in 95 was a huge win, but lots of shortsighted people said the same thing about wibdows 95.
Thanks.
Do you know of anything else that can lose half of it's value in a day multiple times a year and yet continue forward with ever increasing prices. I have yet to hear of any ponzi or pyramid scheme with such resilince. Perhaps, just maybe, there is actual utility being presented with bitcoin? Something to consider, that's all.
"If you earned a dollar 100 years ago it's worth 2 pennies today. Kill yourself."
I think it is safe to say that anyone who earned that dollar IS ALREADY DEAD!
Also...if you saved that dollar in a Bank for the last 100 years the magic of compound interest would actually give you a wee bit more than a dollar in your account. If however it was under your mattress..you would have a 100 year old dollar bill in perfect condition...also worth way more than a dollar..so really it's hard to make the one dollar 100 years ago comparison.
Edit: It would have been a 1913 half dollar (silver). You would get $4000.00 for a "new" pair of those (at least).
That's right LoneStarHog......they have officially reached ZeroHedge
If you earned a dollar 100 years ago, you're dead now.
That took a hundred years, not 7 days! You at least have some time to decide if you are a strong hand in the US dollar or not before you jump ship. If you're a strong hand in Bitcoin, you will wake up the next day missing a few of your fingers, with severely limited dexterity.
And then you wake up the next year with super advanced cyborg limbs that can easily crush all of your enemies.
is Bitcoin the new Silver?
No, the new PETS.COM
Clarification: the price went down 50%. Headline suggests that the value of bitcoin was USD$1300.
And BTW silver went from $50 to $19. What percentage drop is that?
Must be worthless.
We don't know the value of silver either until we have proper price discovery.
smfh
The price of prescious metals are set by banks fuck ass.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-25/how-gold-price-manipulated-duri...
Bitcoin is going through price discovery.
I agree with you, short term. Long term, I might physically hold my silver and it will retain value. Bitcoin may be or may become a tool of the NSA/.gov and be held against you. Calculating odds and risks.... yep, gonna stick with silver for long term.
Also, you don't need a working internet to buy/sell silver.
Good. Hold it, cuddle it, I don't give a shit.
If you cuddle it in your tinfoil bunker so the NSA can't peep you while you do it +5
This is price discovery all right. They discoverd the price was getting too high and enjoy seeing instant bagholders.
But at least you have a digital wallet somewhere, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy
I do feel warm and fuzzy.
Thank you, SIR!
You would be more credible, if you knew how to spell. Use spell-check.
You even hyphenated spell-check. You're not only credible but incredible.