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Bitcoin Crashes, Loses Half Of Its Value In Two Days

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It was inevitable that a few short days after Wall Street lovingly embraced Bitcoin as their own, with analysts from Bank of America, Citigroup and others, not to mention the clueless momentum-chasing, peanut gallery vocally flip-flopping on the "currency" after hating it at $200 only to love it at $1200 that Bitcoin... would promptly crash. And crash it did: overnight, following previously reported news that China's Baidu would follow the PBOC in halting acceptance of Bitcoin payment, Bitcoin tumbled from a recent high of $1155 to an almost electronically destined "half-off" touching $576 hours ago, exactly 50% lower, on very heave volume, before a dead cat bounce levitated the currency back to the $800 range, where it may or may not stay much longer, especially if all those who jumped on the bandwagon at over $1000 on "get rich quick" hopes and dreams, only to see massive losses in their P&Ls decide they have had enough.

Which incidentally, like gold, is to be expected when one treats what is explicitly as a currency on its own merits in a world of dying fiat - with the appropriate much required patience - instead of as an asset, with delusions of grandure that some greater fool will pay more for it tomorrow than it is worth today. Sadly, in a world of HFT trading, patience is perhaps the most valuable commodity.

As for Bitcoin, while the bubble may or may not have burst, and is for now kept together with the help of the Winklevoss bros bid, all it would take is for another very vocal institutiona rejection be it in China or domestically, where its "honeypot" features are no longer of use to the Fed or other authorities, for the euphoria to disappear as quickly as it came...

Two day chart, showing the epic move from $1155 to $576 in hours:

And longer term chart showing the overnight action in its full glory:

 

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Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:31 | 4226015 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I don't think the criticism that Bitcoin is too volatile is fair. How could it not be volatile? No one knows what it is worth yet. But the market seems to be saying that it has _some_ value. If nothing significant changes (i.e., the system is hacked or it's made 'officially' illegal) then it isn't going to $0. Not when it's been over $1000 and nothing has changed. Even though it's fiat, it's the best fiat you could ask for: limited and private. Hendry says they may hit $1 million some day. That would give it a market cap of $21 trillion. I guess that's the scenario where it replaces the dollar. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:11 | 4224548 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I don't think BTC is a currency, I think it's a service.

The service it provides is valuable, but services of equal value can be provided by competitors.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:34 | 4224469 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

That is exactly correct. There is currently a duration risk with bitcoin similar to that with gold and silver. When silver went through its recent correction, my local coin dealer increased the spread he charged on 1 oz silver coins to $5-6 dollars to protect himself against the price of silver falling further in the near term. I expect the same to happen with merchants vis-a-vis bitcoin. They will start charging a vig over the spot price of bitcoin to account for duration risk.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:45 | 4224489 Stackers
Stackers's picture

but there is no duration risk for vendors with bitcoin. There are vendor services that will immediately exchange BTC for FRN's as soon as the sale takes place.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:54 | 4224510 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Gold coins serve the exact same function, and (unlike Bitcoin) have the added benefit of being entirely untraceable (in transactions under $10,000.00).

Additionally, there is far less duration risk with precious metals.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:02 | 4224528 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

If I want to buy a meal for $27 and I have a chunk of gold, how do you give me change?  How do I know your scales are correct and how do you know my chunk of gold isn't plated tungsten?  Gold is a shitty means of performing transactions. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:00 | 4224659 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

JFC - you don't cash in gold for meals.  You have a core holding of Au that is a store of wealth just like your farm/homestead or retirement account (that should never be in fiat btw).  You should also have a percentage of your wealth in Ag.  For day to day expenses you use whatever you get paid in - be it barter, fiat, or crypto-currency.  You only cash-out PMs for major purchases/emergencies.  If we ever reverted to a barter/PM based local economy, those bags of junk silver and nickels you've got will come in very handy though.  =]

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:21 | 4224960 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Yes exactly physical gold in this environment is long term store of value and hedge not a currency or money. I look at it as the equivalent of the bank of sealy posturepedic that don't have lay on as the reason for holding gold concerning savings. But it is only one facet not the whole game.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:42 | 4226033 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

There's no weighing involved unless you're way off the radar, in which case you better know what you are doing. When gold is money again, it will be the money. It won't be set at a fixed rate of $, it will be the dollars. When we transact, it will generally be done digitally and our account will be debited X milligrams for a given transaction.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:15 | 4225753 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Gold is a shitty means of performing transactions.

This is why - when gold was money - people carried around paper receipts for gold called dollars. Because a dollar was worth approx. 1/20 of an ounce.

For smaller transactions, there were silver and copper coins.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:20 | 4224568 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Sucks getting that gold coin to me as salary when I'm traveling to Singapore but my employers are in Londen. From personal experience, BTC works wonders in this case. I refuse to work for fiat.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:31 | 4224593 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That is one of the important characteristics of BTC that interests me as well, even if this does not apply to most here at ZH.  Transfers nicely...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:20 | 4224800 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

yeah, except when you got paid in bitcoin last friday and you want to buy something today. This volitility is why bitcoin

is not a digital currency is is active ponzi for traders to jerk around fools and take their money. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:04 | 4225728 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If you think bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, then you don't know what a ponzi scheme is.  Ponzi schemes claim to invest money but instead pay older investors with fresh money from new investors.

If bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, then so is gold.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 05:05 | 4225833 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

silversurfer, if you have a better solution to my problem, I'd love to hear it.  In the meantime keep scrounging for them dollars.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:52 | 4224876 itchy166
itchy166's picture

Bitcoin transactions are entirely untraceable in any size.  It just depends on how you transfer/use them.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:12 | 4224421 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

What does the hippie think?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:03 | 4224400 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

That's what all the gamblers in Vegas keep telling themselves isn't it?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:22 | 4224440 PT
PT's picture

Voice from the peanut gallery:  "What's good enough for gold is good enough for bitcoin."  After all, gold is currently on sale now, right?  Right?  At least Bitcoin gives 'em plenty of opportunity to BTFD and STFT.  And if you miss the dip / top, don't worry, just wait till next week.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:28 | 4224454 PT
PT's picture

Disclaimer:  I own no bitcoin and probably because I am too busy / slack to look into it and probably will never buy any until my gf has heard of bitcoin and urges me to buy some because my local shoe-shine boy with a part-time job as a lift operator has mortgaged his house to buy a time share arrangement of a bitcoin because someone told him that they always go up.

Disclaimer 2:  I do not really know any shoe-shine boys or lift operators, although I have been assured that bit-coin investors eventually get the urge to widen their skill-base into these two areas. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:44 | 4224628 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Don't worry, there's a big dip coming and it might last a while...

You'll have plenty opportunity to buy at the bottom...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 06:05 | 4226323 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Mirror, mirror on the wall, when is the "biggest dip" of them all?  Did you successfully predict the ramp up in BTC?  Why should I think anything of your analysis on the subject now?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 06:49 | 4226356 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Because you're an idiot and you have no idea what you're doing.

For you it will be the last one, and this is the beginning of it.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:22 | 4224437 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

To bad there was no way you could have foreseen this crash he?

to bad you didn't sell at 1200$....

God should have given you a sign or something...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:43 | 4224484 PT
PT's picture

Fucking wake up.  You're gonna have this same argument next week after Bitcoin doubles and halves again.  Then you'll be writing the same thing again the following week.  You don't have to like it.  Just see it for what it is - something that can bounce around for a lot longer than we can watch without getting dizzy.  No way did I expect real estate prices to remain above the clouds for the last 13 years, but that is what happened.   If RE and equities don't make sense, why should bitcoin?  Someone misses selling for $1200 this week, they'll get the opportunity next week.  Not saying bitcoin ain't a scam.  I got no idea.  Just saying that this ain't the first time bitcoin's demise has been predicted.  For all we know it might crash tomorrow, or it might plateau tomorrow, or it might continue to bounce for the next ten decades.  Unless you know something I don't. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:13 | 4224549 starfcker
starfcker's picture

the bitcoin fans i know are all gamers and daytraders. step away from the box and get some fresh air once in a while

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:21 | 4224567 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

https://btc-e.com/

Read the chat box for a few minutes, and if you don't lose your mind, you will know everything you need to know about BTC 'early adopters' and 'investors'.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:05 | 4224678 Matt
Matt's picture

You should see the alt coin chat boxes, where they openly talk about trying to move the price of an alt coin, or plan which coin to mine to raise its difficulty, or negotiate trades in the coins that are on the exchange, but to trade outside the exchange to avoid fees and prevent the sale from moving the price.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:06 | 4224919 itchy166
itchy166's picture

So they are acting like Wall Street insiders do?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:12 | 4224933 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

It is not a regulated system and voluntary participation. Risk comes with territory. No risk no reward. If don't have the stomach there is always mommy government's system skirts you can go hide under if that is not your thing. Mommy will always make everything nice and safe as Roger Water's once sang.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:12 | 4225494 starfcker
starfcker's picture

props DCH, love it when somebody comes out swinging

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 02:16 | 4226199 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

It's a bunch of tech savvy bums hoping to hit the lottery, so they can continue being bums and drink skimmed milk lattes and play with fuckin chinchillas all day.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:07 | 4225076 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Guess you'll be even happier in the double and single digits, then.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:29 | 4225119 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

my local coin store says they're currently out of bitcoins

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:49 | 4224365 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

s'ok, ..     s'normal...yeah...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:17 | 4226478 sleigher
sleigher's picture

exactly

1Nq1jeBrRSXyRmywmDwu4tcyvjMq9ruRXE

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:47 | 4224360 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

I expect the highs and lows to become less extreme over time, such that speculating in BTC as an asset gives way to exchange in a generally appreciating monetary unit and depreciating fiat currencies are abandoned accordingly.

If so, then the state as we know it will be on its way to becoming a thing of the past, the sooner the better.

Meanwhile, here again is the brilliant Stefan Molyneaux on BTC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6F91dFYCs

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:50 | 4224374 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Via Brotherjohnf; silver price "fixing"

https://www.silverfixing.com

I thought let's put some real money on this thread.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:34 | 4224467 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

LBMA 'fixing' the price of silver. If the fucking crooks hadn't broken the price of silver then it wouldn't need 'fixing'.

 

Stack On

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:30 | 4224463 HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

The down legs were very strong and the base it formed is weak.  It looks like this has to work down and test $500 again.  If $500 doesn’t hold, then $200 is definitely on the table because recent hot money will panic.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:06 | 4224682 Matt
Matt's picture

I'm a buyer at $100. Same for $10 silver or $500 gold, will buy as much as possible at thsoe levels.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:45 | 4224738 jomama
jomama's picture

you're going to be waiting a very long time for $500 gold.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:50 | 4225027 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

jomama, I think you are correct.  If gold gets to $500, that would be "paper gold" only.  At $500, there will likely be NO physical gold available.

(from FOFOA)

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:20 | 4224561 Digital_Bucaneer
Digital_Bucaneer's picture

Every two weeks the PBOC tells Baidu giant to stick it up it's ass with it's idea to accept bitcoin?

Listen, it very simple, this was a great bubble, some bought at cents and sold at thousand and became millionaires.
Nice ride, Bitcoin won't dissapear, but it's no fun anymore. If you buy at really low prices, you really don't give a shit what the variations in price are, you will win either more or a lot. It's the best way not to suffer, not to take big chances.
Litecoin has risen up exponentially since Bitcoin rose up to the thousands, sign that mundane people (those who are not specially solvent) have jumped into Litecoin (another bubbling cryptocurrency project).

Until bitcoin isn't accepted in most shops and stores, don't expect it to have any reasonable weight.
Besides, TPTB do not want our freedom or loose control, so better take advantage of bubbles and invest those gains in becoming more independent and self-sufficient from the nasty gov't.

You can hang around with bitcoins, as long as you bought them really cheap, otherwise you are going to have a rocky ride.
Unless that money you used to invest really was spare change.

Hey Joe, where's the next bubble?
...like bees from flower to flower.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:22 | 4224572 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I've followed LTC for 3 weeks at most, and I've seen it go from $6 to $40, now back to $23.

Not my bag, baby.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:39 | 4224846 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

I feel bad for whomever was suckered into buying at $1200

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:01 | 4224903 Matt
Matt's picture

Why? If they purchased all at once, at least they had the opportunity to learn the value of buying in over time, rather than jumping in head first all at once.

If they paniced and dumped it all at $500, then they also have the opportunity to learn not to trade on emotion.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:39 | 4224986 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Matt     "Why? If they purchased all at once, at least they had the opportunity to learn the value of buying in over time, rather than jumping in head first all at once".

 

Comment:

It's not about the value of buying over time. It's about buying value despite the time. The current problem is there is no stable assessed value of bitcoins, thus its wild moves up and down.

What one is learning now is that this is a speculative market regardless if one jumps in head first or waits. Since it is a new market with wild swings, even if one waits, one is still speculating because it is an unproven market, one that isn't established enough to the point it has garnered some price stability.

It is ironic, that bitcoin is claimed to be an alternative to fiat because fiat is controlled and manipulated by central banks, thus manipulated markets and price instability. Yet, bitcoins is also price instable because of the lack of transparency and I have yet to see anyone talk about that.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:31 | 4224987 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

A true bitcoiner never says he's sorry for encouraging people to buy into a top.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 04:08 | 4226295 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Obviously you have different views, but my analysis says any bitcoin below $10k is dirt cheap.  Risk is not very well quantified into my analysis and anyways is always an intensely personal calculation.  Put some lunch money in and forget about it.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:17 | 4225100 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Meh. First world problems - it's only money they lost; other parts of the world they're losing lives/limbs.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:13 | 4224273 Balvan
Balvan's picture

Bitcoin didn't lose anything, it's USD who doubled in value.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:45 | 4224358 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes.  And the "metals only" community borrowing all the same FUD tactics used on them by the cartel?  Pathetic.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:31 | 4224465 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Rev. fonestar said:

Yes.  And the "metals only" community borrowing all the same FUD tactics used on them by the cartel?

It really depends on whether one's goal is saving or speculation. When buying gold/silver in 2006-2008, my goal was saving, so as to have a reserve of purchasing power insurance, and I had (and have) more long-term confidence in metal than paper. I wasn't looking for a trade or to get rich quick via speculation.

Some people enjoy speculation, and some even profit from it. Good for them. I don't have the time to spend or capital to risk on speculation. I'd rather spend my time on gaining knowledge and useful skills and I'd rather spend my disposable capital on books, tools, materials, and scientific equipment. But hey, everybody focuses on what they consider important.

I really don't care one way or another about bitcoins. Maybe they're a genuinely revolutionary breakthrough in means of exchange, maybe not. Time will tell, and if they become a common and widely accepted currency, I'll use them at that time. I won't miss out on their potential benefits by waiting until then. I might miss out on speculative gains, but that doesn't matter since there is no loss in delaying adoption.

As a saver, my view on bitcoins is like my view on the dollar: I don't see the store-of-value utility, whereas gold and silver have had that utility for dozens of centuries.

Pathetic.

What you fail to see, and really how could you in your religious fervor, is that your bitcoins as a speculative trade are no different than the speculative trade in metals, stocks, real estate, commodities, bonds, T-bills, FX, and other paper products. Some people will profit handsomely, some people will lose their asses, and many will spend a great deal of precious time going back and forth between a little above and a little below breaking even. Bitcoin is just the new guy.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:30 | 4224590 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I won't speak for anyone's personal integrity, but if we are to keep our INTELLECTUAL integrity, we absolutely MUST point out that short-term and long-term price fluctuations or positions DO matter.

In a short-term variation, only Speculators are affected, insofar they might have to either cover borrowed money (margin) or they cash in at a loss.

In the long-term variation, Investors (looking for ROI over longer timeframe) and Savers (looking to preserve value of fiat) get 'burned'.

Given the fast changes (short timeframe) in BTC, it is clear (for IQ > 95) that no Investors or Savers have yet been impacted.

Now... Given the Long-term slide in PM, it is quite likely that its Speculators got burned by TPTB and are whining accordingly. PM Investors may have been been 'burned' if they invested in PM in the last 12 months. Savers may also have been 'burned' by PM in the last 12 months, if they had to cash in for some unexpected reason/emergency. Even if they did not have to cash in any PM, they could've bought way more today than a year ago. Unfortunately/fortunately, NPV and Opportunity Cost DO matter.

If we are to stick to facts and financial math, and keep "investment religion" out of our discussions.

In light of everything above, medium-term slide in PM prices DO matter, as do long-term slides in currency debauchery through 'printing' (reckless increase to the currency supply, that is then made available only to a tiny subset/elite of the economy's population).
IOW, the 100 slide of the USD is an absolutely valid argument, and a large motivation for many Bitcoin Investors.

BTW, a smart investor will spread his holdings into various asset classes and types (that includes RE, stocks, cash, PM and Bitcoin), whereas a dumbass ('investor' in name only) will risk his holdings mostly in one basket. In spite of the time-proven Golden/PM basket, having only that basket is unwise and risky -- given how Murphy's Laws tend to work: odds are, just when you need your PM the most, its currency price will 'suck'.

Hedge and diversify accordingly. If you have the fiat, smarts and balls. Else, rather than "making history" (yeah!), you may "experience" it or read about it (ouch!) and lament/bitch accordingly. Good luck.

P.s. I hope you will be one of those who'll go Yeah. But even if you end up going Ouch, ZH will be more than happy to have you lament/bitch on their site. Because even bitching is "good for business" on ZH... All posts and clicks create the "wealth effect" for blog site owners. ;-)

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:37 | 4224609 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Many nice points, Captain Kirk.

Especially:

"BTW, a smart investor will spread his holdings into various asset classes and types (that includes RE, stocks, cash, PM and Bitcoin),..."

***

Diversification is one of this bearing's middle names.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:53 | 4224650 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Diversification or diworsification?  Depends on where you're at in life I guess.  I like things a little crazy myself.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:07 | 4224681 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Ever hear of the saying:  "Don't put all of your eggs in one basket?"  That is very sage advice - and the advent of crypto-currencies don't change this reality.

The electronic nature of BitCoin and it's BitClones leaves it very open to black swan events.  That risk must be taken into consideration.

What would happen, for instance, if a targeted Stuxnet-type virus were released that could corrupt the code used in folks' e-wallets? or just tagged along and messed with retailers' servers.  Hell, even the rumor of something like that could cause huge problems. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:09 | 4224688 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

fonestar, I am almost 58.  I am thinking about what may happen when our kid gets married (soon?, who knows, we're the last to learn these things).  For me, holding gold, our bearing business in Peru, no debt and holding BTC makes a lot of sense.

A little crazy and a little BTC makes life more interesting no doubt.  I am on your side.  

But, since I do not know what will happen, I hedge accordingly.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:43 | 4224482 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Fonestar: "Pathetic"

A little butt-hurt are we, Fonestar? 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:53 | 4225187 knukles
knukles's picture

He didn't crash Bitcoin all by himself.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:15 | 4225245 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Correct knukles, that was me.  I bought Bitcoin, so it's my fault.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:08 | 4224251 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

Not true.

The guy that makes a washing machine sells it to the person that needs to do their clothes. That time saved from washing clothes can be used to go out and make more money that the cost of the washing machine. Not everything is a zero sum game. There is a certain synergy in many economic activities.

Another example is that two horses can pull more weight together than one can pull individually because they work off each other's strengths and compensate for each other's weaknesses.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:27 | 4224298 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

You are talking about productive employment. I am sorry to tell you but it does not exist any more. It has been replaced by magical employment which is much easier and produces things out of thin air such as money for example. Please try to keep up.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:22 | 4224814 Fake_nation
Fake_nation's picture

Thank you! The million dollar elephant in this room: what are these people going to spend the bitcoin on? A college education for them or their kids to better themselves and prepare for a wholesome, fulfilling career? Oh lulz...

We have way bigger problems than the monetary problem: we have a human problem. 

http://www.fakenation.info/please/beauty-not-bitcoin-will-save-the-world

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:01 | 4224234 PP
PP's picture

Dear Tyler, this is not full story.

1,several days ago besides Baidu there is another important support for Bitcoin in China - China Telecom.

After Baidu temporarily suspend (or say pernamently stopped) bitcoin payment, Chinese people finally know that China telecom will be next (because this one represent government)

2, Ministry of security (the most important goverment department) doesn't say anything, they are watching. they ask bitcoin trading website e.g. BTCChina, Okcoin etc to register everyone's detail information including copy of personal identification, I think most of speculators don't want those registration (like in jail), so someone simply quit

3, some website shut down during cliff drop, make speculators panic, they put more sell orders and make more website shut down

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:06 | 4224246 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Seems like using pretend money isn't the wisest decision.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:23 | 4224293 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah, dollars are pretty shitty.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:43 | 4224342 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"A Simpleton's Theory of Value"

By Egonschilde von Shitsferbrains

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:49 | 4224364 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

You've been bit rolled.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:56 | 4224512 jomama
jomama's picture

still upvoting your own posts, i see.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:44 | 4224487 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

How are Bitcoins different from World of Warcraft money?

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:01 | 4224526 covsire
covsire's picture

WoW has no limit to how many coins can be created.  Bitcoin limit is about 21M by the year 2140 and those coins can be divided up currently to 8 decimal places but protocol changes could make 1 bitcoin infinitely divisible if needed.

WoW has no limit to the rate of inflation.  Bitcoin is limited to approx 25 coins per 10 minutes, which cuts in half every 4 years.

WoW has no way for money holders to access the general ledger.  Bitcoins can be tracked by anyone and everyone has a copy of the ledger can validate anyone else.

WoW is controlled by a central authority.  Bitcoin is distributed and the power to control the currency is divided among the entire world, namely anyone who is running the Bitcoin wallet.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:26 | 4224584 booboo
booboo's picture

Wow and Bitcoin both require the user to own a poopsock.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poop%20sock

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:46 | 4224624 malek
malek's picture

Your comment is so stupid.

Explain to us, for starters, how a medium of exchange can can be tracked by anyone and at the same time cannot be controlled by a central authority.

Also the US dollar can be divided up currently to 2 decimal places but protocol changes could make 1 US dollar infinitely divisible if needed.

The amount of US Dollars that can be created is also limited, because of the unique serial number printed on each bill: to about (26^2 * 10^9) * ($100 + $50 +$20 +10 + $5 + $1) because the serial number is in format AA99999999.

However remember protocol changes could make <whatever> if needed!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:27 | 4224977 covsire
covsire's picture

You have to understand bitcoin to know these things.  Basically, everyone has a copy of every bitcoin transaction ever made.  If I say I own 20000 bitcoins, I have to provide my public address to the network along with a transaction record if i want to buy something or send someone some of my bitcoins.  My "transaction" is signed with my private address, the address I never give out to anyone.  Only my public address can validate my private address.  Therefore, everyone can validate that A) I have a ledger entry where 20000 bitcoins got sent to my public address and just as importantly, B) My public address validates my privately signed transaction.  

A central authority has no way of "printing" bitcoins because the protocol as a whole simply doesn't allow it.  New transactions are validated from previous transactions  

It has long been known that if you controlled at least half of the world's bitcoin wallets, you could split the block chain and do pretty much anything but the more "common folks" that run the wallet at home, the more secure the system is.  

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:58 | 4225593 malek
malek's picture

It doesn't help to go deeper and deeper into minute details.

You at least imply bitcoins cannot be controlled by a central authority.
As long as your body and physical needs cannot be digitized and sent over the internet -encrypted if necessary-, your local authority can hinder you very effectively to use bitcoins as a medium of exchange for local transactions.

So the "no control" argument is a fallacy.

The "limited" supply is meaningless as well, as nobody knows if tomorrow someone introduces bitcoin 2.0 with 10x as much coins and a majority jumps ship and onto the new bandwagon.
In that case some central authority would actually be helpful to not have the rules changed all the time.

(Yes, we also don't know if tomorrow the majority shuns gold and opts for example for Rhodium instead. But in this case of ambiguity I fallback on history's judgement, as it's usually not different this time.)

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:07 | 4224924 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

So covsire, say I take a WoW character and pillage someones BTC wallet on the interwebs and make off with some coins, can I spend them in WoW or do I need to launder the fake digital currency through an exchange and trade them in for fake paper currency before I can do that?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:31 | 4224984 covsire
covsire's picture

Sure knock yourself out.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:32 | 4224319 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Greenspan opens his trap"

 

"fitting metaphor for Greenspan's mouth"

 

What did the trap just say, that the market is NOT a bubble?  Right after he admitted that "we knew it (housing) was a bubble all along."  What did he say at the time?  The market was just frothy.

The market is up huge but not a bubble, so says Greenspan.  The trap is open.

Hugh Hendry threw in the towel the other day, calling himself the last bear.  Yesterday i read on ZH that a Hindenberg Omen has occurred.  Perfect timing.

 

 

 

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:54 | 4224880 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

has that Tesla dealer gotten fired yet?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:27 | 4225779 digi
digi's picture

Considering that he actually managed to sell a tesla, he probably got promoted.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:57 | 4225052 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Some little teen age peckerhead name of Exponere Mendaces was schooling all us old timers on the Bitcoin for Tesla thread.

He was hysterically preaching that Bitcoin was taking over the worlsd, old guys were all fucked, and his youthful digital cadre of Bitcoin warriors were gonna take over the world. 

Seems like the Black Friday half price sale fucked up his plans for world domination just a bit.

Reminded me of the young bull and the old bull on a hill looking down at the herd of cows.

Young bull says " Lets run down the hill, and fuck a few of them cows! "

Old bull says " No, son, let's walk down the hill, and fuck all of them ! "

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:20 | 4224287 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

TSLA timed BTC about as good as a fart in church...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:47 | 4224490 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

OH NOOOOOoooooo !!!!

And FREDDOM TECH is........gone.

Shit.....Fuckstar's double shot espresso with organic goat's milk will now cost him twice as much......if the only coffee bar in town that accepts Shitcoint is still accepting Shitcoin.....or still in business for that matter.  LOL !!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:49 | 4224492 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Quick.....buy that Tesla NOW Fuckstar......otherwise......I doubt you hedged enough Magic the Gathering cards or Beanie Babies to cash in to buy a Tesla.     HAHAHAHAHAAAA !!!!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:43 | 4225562 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

Of course it's crashing.  Max Keiser has been talking it up the past month.  Always late to the party that one...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:28 | 4225781 digi
digi's picture

He's been pumping it since about $5 so he is still up about 100x.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:31 | 4224146 spinone
spinone's picture

I wanna talk to fonestar

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:44 | 4224175 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

Please check the number and dial again......

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:46 | 4224187 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Dial 1-888-lil-bitch

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:49 | 4224191 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The S&P is up 30% ytd and it is FDIC insured. Why mess with this stuff?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:31 | 4224307 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Trick question? 

http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/information/fdiciorn.html

Funny, the FDIC does not make me sleep better at night. As you one said...even if they market tanks BIG TIME...who will be around to pay the short side? That, mi amigo, has stuck in my head like a lawn dart. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:40 | 4224329 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Yeah man. I truly believe that is what we we are going to witness will be spectacular. With no real alternative to stawks left for everyone we could see markets just continue to plow to ridiculous levels. I mean I was interested in bitcoin but these moves have scared me off. 

This is the grandest hostage scenario in history. All that is missing is the stockholm syndrome.

pretty funny link

http://blogs.wsj.com/privateequity/2013/12/05/recent-blackstone-deal-in-focus-on-the-daily-show/?mod=yahoo_hs

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:40 | 4224336 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> these moves have scared me off.

As intended.  Same with the smash downs in gold.  Message loud and clear.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:44 | 4224350 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"Same with the smash downs in gold"

Nah, next purchase will occur at $1100

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:59 | 4224394 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> next purchase

I was talking more general market psychology rather than you, per se.

 


Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:57 | 4224515 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

"FDIC Insured" is like a "Jumbo Shrimp".

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:56 | 4224890 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

my gold will remain buried in the ground for another 10 years or so.  let's see where it is priced then.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:15 | 4224427 seek
seek's picture

I'm convinced at this point we'll see sub-$1,000 gold within a year, if not a month or two. (Before the launch to the stratosphere sometime between 2015 and 2018.)

When you look at the blockchain transactions prior and during the bitcoin takedown, it was very reminicent of the April gold takedown -- it looked like someone spent about $5-$10M walking the BTC price down and sucking up liquidity yesterday on MtGox before dumping a single $25M order that blew out the bid stack. I've not checked out the blockchain for it, but I'm pretty sure based on the patterns there was a small dry run a few days before.

Until yesterday, I believe BTC was largely free of manipulation -- as of yesterday I don't think that's true anymore. We're dealing with actors that are perfectly comfortable losing millions to generate a particular market response, and that really only leaves governments and their agents (banks) as the candidates behind this. The irony is because of their inability to naked short, their purchases of BTC to be able to sell likely drove the price up prior to the crash. They can undermine faith in BTC, but I'm not so sure they can kill it thanks to them not being able to use their old tricks.

To borrow a line from Terminator: The Fed is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:27 | 4224447 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

agreed all around. so go long stawks, short the miners, and take gains and buy real stuff. take what is given and use it to your advantage.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:02 | 4224491 seek
seek's picture

Even though stawks have been up since 2008 due to QE, I still think it's picking up pennies in front of a steamroller being in them at any time. I'm long cash/gold/BTC and food and other "necessities," many of which have NSN's assigned to them.

We're living in a psychotic mad max world right now, with a happy veneer put on top.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:25 | 4224583 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

seek wrote: "I'm long cash/gold/BTC and food and other "necessities,..."

+ a million.  

Preparation through diversity is how those of us will make it through all of this.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:14 | 4225091 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

To say the manipulation started yesterday is RIDICULOUS.

I watched LTC be ramped from $6 3 weeks ago, to $40 a week ago.  So that was just normal market action in your opinion?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 21:42 | 4225689 seek
seek's picture

Well, the groundwork for the plunge had to happen slowly in advance of the sale, so there would be some impact on pricing from those purchases -- so there'd be modest influences. For bitcoin, to make the plunge happen it took about $30M USD in sales -- those same purchases were likely spread over weeks or months prior, so frankly, the manipulation impact over that time would be nothing compared to what happened in a couple hours.

I lived through the silver and gold boom in the late 70s/early 80s. Silver was manipulated by the Hunt brothers, but gold went up largely because a lot of people were buying in and you get mania. I think the runup on cryptocurrencies was comprise of organic development, mania, and modest manipulation, and the crash was driven my substantial manipulation and reverse mania; the organic development is why we have a floor that's still above $500.

I seriously doubt the people that went after bitcoin gave a rat's ass about LTC -- I think it was just bleedover of the mania by people who felt BTC was too expensive. Virtually all altcoins rose strongly with bitcoin and I seriously doubt the Fed or anyone else cared about namecoin or anything outside of bitcoin. But they did care about bitcoin, and knew starting a run would leak over into everything else.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:49 | 4224494 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

What TPTB are doing with bitcoin is no different than what they do to small fry who short gold and silver. They crush them like bugs. TPTB probably owned most of the bitcoin stock initially. They manipulate the price higher, and people like fonestar and CH1 buy on the way up. TPTB then crush the value of bitcoin, and the small fry panic and sell their bitcoin back to the TPTB. It's like stealing candy from a baby.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:48 | 4224633 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

seek, I pray the yellow metal dips lower so I can buy some of those luscious Perth Mint Snakes and new Horsies.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:51 | 4224375 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Funny, the Daily show audience, on average, probably has no idea that this is not even the tip of the iceberg...rather just a little snowflake. 

I just hope the system can stay together a bit longer....because you are correct...whatever happens will be spectacular. 

Reminds me of the movie Seven...I just hope my head does not end up in a box. 

Have a good weekend! 

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:10 | 4224418 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

you guys do the same

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:53 | 4224507 PT
PT's picture

Thanks for that link.

"Unfortunately this video is unable to be shown in your location."  Oh well, I think the text explained it all.  Makes me wonder about the "freeness" of the internet though. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:31 | 4225787 digi
digi's picture

Hmm, 1.3x or 100x, yea you are right, why bother, same difference.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:32 | 4224149 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

"That's why I'm richer than you."

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:32 | 4224150 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Bit "the dust" Coin?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:49 | 4224370 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Still the best performing asset 3 years running.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:34 | 4224153 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Everyone who ordered video cards to mine the alt coins is probably thinking of canceling them right now lol

I know I am.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:42 | 4224338 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Can those cards be used for any alternate purpose?  Like processing photographs or playing games?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:27 | 4224452 Kidrobot
Kidrobot's picture

I figured that's half the reason this was made :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gtXhFzOBRw

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:35 | 4224837 Matt
Matt's picture

Nvidia cards are, at best, 33% as fast at mining as comparable AMD cards. I'm pretty sure the Titans would consume more electricity than they would produce in alt coins.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:34 | 4224154 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

Ok...bring on Litecoin!!!!!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:02 | 4224230 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

You joke, but they did the same thing with Friendster and MySpace before setteling on FB.

edit: not my junk.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:46 | 4224356 Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

The ultimate champion will be Bigcoin™

Buy now or be priced out forever...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:37 | 4224155 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Like it has crashed 637 times before.

It's brand new and just started getting media attention. All the weak hands are flushed out.

The dollar has lost 98% of its value over the last 100 years. Let that sink in. If you earned a dollar 100 years ago it's worth 2 pennies today. Kill yourself.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:39 | 4224163 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

That's getting your "two-cents" worth.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:41 | 4224170 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Arbitrage opportunities in price swings........

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:51 | 4224200 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh so Bitcoin is still a good thing cause it "crashed 637 times before" and it's "brand new" !!?? What fucking sense does that make!?

Oh duh..    It is true that a sucker is born every minute!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:55 | 4224215 One And Only
One And Only's picture

"Every business day in London, five banks meet to set the price of gold"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-25/how-gold-price-manipulated-duri...

G'luck

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:33 | 4224318 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It's a great thing, for speculation not investment, for those with the time and willingness to play the various markets and price swings. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:23 | 4224441 jballz
jballz's picture

 

 

 

Windows 95 Bitchez

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:09 | 4224686 PT
PT's picture

??????

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:07 | 4226095 jballz
jballz's picture

He said, "Oh so Bitcoin is still a good thing cause it "crashed 637 times before" and it's "brand new" !!?? What fucking sense does that make!?"

 

To which I say, Windows 95, Bitchez.

 

Buying msft in 95 was a huge win, but lots of shortsighted people said the same thing about wibdows 95.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 06:24 | 4226353 PT
PT's picture

Thanks.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:30 | 4225793 digi
digi's picture

Do you know of anything else that can lose half of it's value in a day multiple times a year and yet continue forward with ever increasing prices. I have yet to hear of any ponzi or pyramid scheme with such resilince. Perhaps, just maybe, there is actual utility being presented with bitcoin? Something to consider, that's all.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:02 | 4224232 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

"If you earned a dollar 100 years ago it's worth 2 pennies today. Kill yourself."

I think it is safe to say that anyone who earned that dollar IS ALREADY DEAD!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:42 | 4224314 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Also...if you saved that dollar in a Bank for the last 100 years the magic of compound interest would actually give you a wee bit more than a dollar in your account. If however it was under your mattress..you would have a 100 year old dollar bill in perfect condition...also worth way more than a dollar..so really it's hard to make the one dollar 100 years ago comparison.

Edit: It would have been a 1913 half dollar (silver). You would get $4000.00 for a "new" pair of those (at least).

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:16 | 4225509 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

That's right LoneStarHog......they have officially reached ZeroHedge

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:03 | 4224240 Balvan
Balvan's picture

If you earned a dollar 100 years ago, you're dead now.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:09 | 4225227 bombdog
bombdog's picture

That took a hundred years, not 7 days! You at least have some time to decide if you are a strong hand in the US dollar or not before you jump ship. If you're a strong hand in Bitcoin, you will wake up the next day missing a few of your fingers, with severely limited dexterity.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:39 | 4225798 digi
digi's picture

And then you wake up the next year with super advanced cyborg limbs that can easily crush all of your enemies.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:41 | 4224164 RacerX
RacerX's picture

is Bitcoin the new Silver?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:48 | 4224637 malek
malek's picture

No, the new PETS.COM

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:40 | 4224165 philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

Clarification: the price went down 50%. Headline suggests that the value of bitcoin was USD$1300.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:41 | 4224167 One And Only
One And Only's picture

And BTW silver went from $50 to $19. What percentage drop is that?

Must be worthless.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:43 | 4224172 philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

We don't know the value of silver either until we have proper price discovery.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:29 | 4224303 One And Only
One And Only's picture

smfh

The price of prescious metals are set by banks fuck ass.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-25/how-gold-price-manipulated-duri...

Bitcoin is going through price discovery.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:35 | 4224322 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I agree with you, short term.  Long term, I might physically hold my silver and it will retain value.  Bitcoin may be or may become a tool of the NSA/.gov and be held against you.  Calculating odds and risks....  yep, gonna stick with silver for long term.

Also, you don't need a working internet to buy/sell silver. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:45 | 4224354 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Good. Hold it, cuddle it, I don't give a shit.

If you cuddle it in your tinfoil bunker so the NSA can't peep you while you do it +5

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:40 | 4224333 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

This is price discovery all right. They discoverd the price was getting too high and enjoy seeing instant bagholders.

But at least you have a digital wallet somewhere, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:47 | 4224361 One And Only
One And Only's picture

I do feel warm and fuzzy.

Thank you, SIR!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:04 | 4224529 JimS
JimS's picture

You would be more credible, if you knew how to spell. Use spell-check.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:41 | 4224845 rdlem
rdlem's picture

You even hyphenated spell-check. You're not only credible but incredible.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!