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Fidelity Bans IRA Bitcoin Investments Days After Permitting Them
Following what we can only imagine was uproar following our discussion of Fidelity "allowing self-directed IRA holders to 'invest' in Bitcoin," the company has very quickly reversed policy... As MarketWatch notes,
“On an individual basis, we allowed an investor to invest in that Bitcoin Investment Trust,” said Rob Beauregard, director of public relations at Fidelity, in a telephone interview Thursday morning. “We are no longer allowing that.”
The firm is not commenting on why that was allowed, and added "reviews are going on."
Fidelity Investments is no longer allowing clients to invest in the virtual currency bitcoin through SecondMarket’s Bitcoin Investment Trust, a representative for Fidelity told MarketWatch on Thursday.
...
On Thursday, a Fidelity spokesman told MarketWatch that such investments are no longer allowed. The spokesman couldn’t confirm when or why the policy was changed.
“On an individual basis, we allowed an investor to invest in that Bitcoin Investment Trust,” said Rob Beauregard, director of public relations at Fidelity, in a telephone interview Thursday morning. “We are no longer allowing that.”
He continued: “We’re not commenting right now on why that was first allowed. There are reviews going on, and we’ll make a decision at a later date. At this time, it is not available on our retail platform.”
SecondMarket maintained Thursday that certain Fidelity clients can invest in bitcoin through the Bitcoin Investment Trust. “It is only accredited investors [who] have IRA accounts that are eligible to invest through Fidelity,” SecondMarket’s Silbert said in an email.
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I agree Yen, but let's not stop there. Client says they think the market is going to go to shit and massive inflation is coming and wants the protection of physical gold. Broker says no need to withdraw funds from the brokerage, here's some GLD, it's the same thing. Class action lawyers wet dream.
@ philosophers bone Agree, the sharks started circling.
Actually, they have something that allows you to buy and sell the physical bullion coins. https://www.fidelity.com/trading/investment-choices/gold-silver-platinum But what you say about GLD is correct.
What business does Fidelity have telling customers what they can or cannot put their IRA money in? Other than things that are clearly illegal under IRS regulation (like collectibles)?
Forced investment of IRA and other pension funds in US government bonds will be next. For our own good of course.
What business does Fidelity have telling customers what they can or cannot put their IRA money in?
Ah, someone who remembers the old days, before fascism was ruling the world!
Two words: Fiduciary, Custodian. You don't know the business of responsibility.
What a joke this makes out of Fidelity, not out of bitcoin.
What "bank" isn't a farce these days?
sperm 'bank'
don't worry, piigs bondz are still a-okay
LO fuckin' L.
Funny, I thought it was "my" money. How are they going to allow me certain choices? Fuck that. Enjoy your 401(k) as it gets Corzined.
Enjoy your 401(k) as it gets Corzined.
Seriously, I wouldn't put a nickel in a regulated retirement account. They've had a committee working on taking over 401Ks for years now.
Pulled my IRA in 2008, paid the taxes and penalties, and have slept better ever since.
Some of that went to gold... :)
Amen. Same strategy and I sleep like a baby.
They'll be banning the UVF next.
Ahh, crypto-stabilty.
Fidelity - noun - faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support.
Ya might wanna consider a new name for your company...like...oh, I dunno...maybe.....
InFidelity!?!
3X Greek ETFs still ok though.
What is a bitcoin ?
Bitcoin: bankster currency sold as "digital libertarian tech money" to suck geek dipshits into it and advance the push for total digital money thus furthering bankster control and bankster theft. See also sheep marketplace.
bankster currency sold as "digital libertarian tech money"
Yes, Greenspan cooked it up in the back room after he retired! My psychic did a reading for me and confirmed it!!
Fucking fairy tales.
"Yes, Greenspan cooked it up in the back room after he retired!"
Exactly!
Just like Al Gore invented the Internet!, which is now completely controlled by TPTB...
If I had an agenda to push I'd start with the young. In the USA the general population's acceptance of homosexuality, for example, was very low until the elementary schools started pushing their "Bobby Has Two Daddies" program* and MTV produced a daily program* showing college kids running around in the underwear, and every episode included a homosexual romance. Then along comes Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, Will And Grace, and Ellen Degeneres. Suddenly what was once seen as abberant is now seen as normal.
Didn't Goebbels says something about not caring what you thought about them because they were the ones teaching your children?
* program? programming? oy the cohencidence
Webster's - program:
a plan of things that are done in order to achieve a specific result
a plan or system under which action may be taken toward a goal
a sequence of coded instructions that can be inserted into a mechanism (as a computer)
Exactly which is why we see the Dept of Ed integrating BTC into the curriculum for grades pre-k-12??!?!?
I apologize if following an analogy (see the phrase "for example" from the OP) is difficult.
The hypothesis draws from the observations of a majority of the pumpers that they are young and their detractors are old. You don't use a Judas Goat to lead rabbits. You use it to lead other goats, sheep, or cattle. Last time I checked Black Entertainment Television there were no shows featuring Asians, and I doubt that Jenny Craig commercials feature fat housewives in the "after" pictures.
Also, the 2nd half of the example did not mention K-12. The example there was a program about COLLEGE kids in a dorm. But thanks for ignoring the half that doesn't support your statement.
Are you familiar with the american communist party's early 20th C papers about infiltrating both the teaching profession and what are known as "teaching colleges" (where they teach the future teachers)? Infiltrating is my word not theirs. Those dots don'tneed to be connected by tin foil hats; they were a solid line written by the communists themselves. I'm not stating that was a good or bad thing; only that it is fact and the effort and outcome is demonstrable.
Another homophobe?
If you think it's a "choice" then one might ask you when YOU "decided" to be hetrosexual (assuming that you're not in the closet and putting up a false front).
FACT: homosexuality has ALWAYS existed, even in other animals than humans.
FACT2: homosexuals can NOT take over the planet.
Really, one could have picked a better subject about "programming" (like the CONTINUAL, from-the-start, programming about bowing to "authority"). But, shouting "homo" here (or "commie") does well to get up-arrows (even if the logic sucks).
If you're serious, go here: http://bitcoin.org/
Its also known as Barking Seal Troll Kryptonite, Banker Rat Poison, Central Bank Eliminator, Federal Reserve Fuckoff, and much, much, more.
If you weren't such a belligerent little pecker head, you would see this is actually a positive for you. If investors had been aloud to invest BTC in IRAs it would have certainly led to more regulation.
@Yen Cross
And if you weren't so busy categorizing people you don't know into little convenient boxes, you'd know that Bitcoin doesn't need Fidelity to do anything, nor the government to regulate it. Its amusing they'll try, though. I look forward to the fireworks.
Try to keep that temper down, you don't want to blow a blood vessel :)
The last I checked Exponere Mendaces we've never had any sort of exchange. So, how exactly would you profess to have any knowledge of how I view yourself or any other? You seriously need work on your reading comprehension skills.
It's irrelevant what Fidelity does or doesn't need. The simple act of offering a product that requires increased regulation by it's own nature, also increases scrutiny of the financial instrument being invested. Additionally, China and the United States represent (by far) the 2 largest BTC markets. As those markets become increasingly regulated it puts pressure on the whole BTC complex.
I've stated on several occasions what would be required for me to trade BTC.
He does that. As he pigeon holed me yesterday because of a post. I guess I'm supposed to love my "masters", instead of biting the hand that oppresses me.
I found it quite humorous.
His insecurity is blantantly obvious in his posts. He has little real understanding of finance, and shows up only when his precious cybercoins are attacked. When he's got no argument he just spins like a top to deflect any attention from the topic at hand.
its Vastdom......or VD.........trust me on this one......Id know that little sissy anywhere
... while foaming at the mouth and automatically calling everyone who is not on the bitwagon a "hater".
just because you arent on the bandwagon doesnt make you dumb.. but not knowing what you are talking about rather does
there are reasons to question bitcoin, but I'm not going to make your life easier.. that would need to be a full time job
@Yen (Perpetually) Cross
You said:
First, thank you for your concern about my well-being. I can imagine you have a busy schedule, as posting on Zerohedge is the last thing on your list - so it is really touching you think about me enough to write your critique. Alas, I must disagree with your assessment, as my replies are only to educate others, that the prevelant paranoia that is rampant in these forums isn't the only viewpoint, that the needlessly cynical not the only slant at which to look at Bitcoin.
Secondly, my Bitcoins *are* precious, each and every one! I'm pleased you understand this, and perhaps when I grow my stack a bit more, I may have a bit left for you to enjoy if you'd like. As for "spinning like a top", I assure you I don't really have a love for dance, though maybe you are inferring something from your own background, sometimes language does get in the way of interpretation.
Anyway, best of luck and thank you for being so considerate and thoughtful.
Yes, anyone who expresses ANY skepticism or caution regarding bitcoin is instantly labeled a "hater" by the fool.
Zitfaces do tend to see things in black(heads) and white(heads).
I'm sure my schadenfreude will be acute when bitCON comes to a head and pops. Same with the fiat dollar. I may actually have to go to the doctor to get a depressant to help with the joy.
@akak
When a dog comes running, snarling at you, the most prudent defense is your foot or fist. Had you been a bit diffeent in your tack, things would've gone a whole lot differently.
Just something to think about.
Pot ,... kettle ... you know the rest.
Down boy, down!
The best defense is a good offense. I've turned around snarling dogs by picking up a bicycle over my head and running AT them. I have a great fear of death/harm, which is why I have no fear of fighting to the death to avoid it... (for anyone that wishes to test me on it): yeah, try figuring That one out! :-)
@Yen (Perpetually) Cross
As you stated: "belligerent little pecker head"
That is a categorization based on zero. Do try to keep up. Also, its natural as I said AGAIN, that they'll attempt to regulate. What my POINT was, is that their regulation is like trying to make ropes out of sand as the tide comes in. Every possible hole they think they can plug, won't be ENOUGH.
Are we clear? Or do you need to get some more spiteful things about me out of your skull.
Not wanting to get in on the love-fest debate, but...
"Every possible hole they think they can plug, won't be ENOUGH."
This time will be different? If "they" cannot plug the leaks then they'll toss out the container. The world is their sandbox, always has been and always will be (as long as we accept "wealth" as the dermining measure of whose genese go forth... [yes, let's DO abolish "death taxes," as that would upset this entire scheme]).
"And if you weren't so busy categorizing people you don't know into little convenient boxes"
Kinda like stating that everyone who questions Btc is:
Convenient, eh? Chipocrisy at its finest.
@chemystical
This is fight club, and you use what you see being used against you. It may not be right, but it certainly gets their attention. Like now, you're taking your time to post things to me, which you wouldn't otherwise. Time to become aware of the possibilities, and not the dire predictions of the bunker-bound.
"and not the dire predictions of the bunker-bound."
As long as people keep using derogatory methods it's pretty hard to actually get down to actually doing due-diligence in logic-testing this shit all out.
When start resorting to using such, name-calling etc, then they've pretty much lost (whether they had standing in logic or not).
Accredited Investor. What a BS creation of the SEC. I can't count how many people have been unable to invest in what they want because they were unaccredited.
Like it or not, the legal system needs something concrete on which to provide support on/for. "Accredited," rightly or wrongly, is an attempt to provide some legal attachment to...
I think it will all come down to the question of whether Bitcoin is a competing currency*. Folks are not sure if some ruling will upend any position that they may take.
* If I were arguing before the supreme court I'd ask whether PMs couldn't also be seen as competing currencies. That's a knock-out punch, but... the only logical conclusion, that of being accepted in the same light as PMs, would only be allowed IF there were means of tracing/control, and, well, we're back to being contolled by TPTB, who, time and time again, have been proven that they can ONLY ever destroy currencies.
I know what bitcoin is, but what's a fidelity?
What is a "fidelity?" It's something that if you don't practice it correctly ends up in divorce...
FED, FBI, Treasury, CFTC, CIA, Girl Scouts of America.........came down on them HARD!!!
Powers will NEVER allow a fundamental store of value/currency/money...OTHER THAN THE US DOLLAR!!
@ChaosEquilibrium
There's the rub, isn't it. ALLOW. That's the thing, once the concept is out of the bag, there will be others that embrace it, which makes any kind of blanket "ban" or prohibition rather useless. It should be a fun show though, seeing them try to prop the dollar.
The US Dollar is a FIAT currency.
BitCoin is NOT.
Fiat currencies, by definition, do not like competition.
Didn't the Chinese govt say that BitCoin was great but that their banks aren't allowed to deal with it?
Did the US "party" approach Fidelity with this same message?
Let's face it, TPTB AIN'T going to roll over, which is what full acceptance of BitCoin would cause (yeah, I could only dream of it being so). So, you want a revolution? Rebuke the State and the State will rebuke you (refer to executive order... concerning the use of drone strikes).
This quote works well with just a slight change in the wording. This is great when you don't even need to change the quote much:
The Fidelity man accused of allowing an investor to invest in the Bitcoin investment trust said Thursday he saw "angels" at the event, has been violent in the past and suffers from schizophrenia.
And from S.A.
The man accused of faking sign interpretation while standing alongside world leaders like U.S. President Barack Obama at Nelson Mandela's memorial service said Thursday he saw "angels" at the event, has been violent in the past and suffers from schizophrenia.
This is getting so easy. Man how I love Big Brother
Let me be perfectly clear, we allowed then before we didn't allow them.
Forget IRA tax benefits. Just invest in Bitcoin yourself if you understand the fundamentals.
It has been my observation from reading message boards on bitcoins, that the people involved are not professional traders, with experience trading any financial market.
I get the impression this is the first "investment" of any kind many of them have ever made.
That;s because 9 year olds can comprehend what grandparents can't.
Says the zit-faced smartass who is really just a dumbass.
Ride that bitwagon!
Why not go back to playing wonderful world of warcraft or whatever to fuck it is. You are not winning many "converts" here.
Does it hurt to know the net worth of a young millenial is orders of magnitude larger than yours?
Enjoy yours chains until the day you die slave.
I'll take BTC & liberty.
And I dont play World of Warcraft. I play Zerohedge.
When you are not playing with yourself.......
what net worth? Nothing of value is in hand, there is no net worth there.
net worth can't be measured in electrons.
It can only be measured in tangible goods.
Paper promises are a mere proxy. Their true promise is tribute to the slave-lords who issue them. Anything else you get on the side using those paper promises is at their whim. Bits get you even less.
You sure can't buy any gold or silver from me using shit-coinz.
Liberty vs BTC : polar opposites.
Green arrows vs. red arrows.
'nuff said.
there are only gray arrows
everything else is an illusion
jb
no, they think they can buy the easterbunny using toothfairy e-coins.
You'll learn grandmother knew best after all with gold & silver - when you see you're the one without any and no one wants bitcoins.
I don't now and will not ever.
Um... what's that quote? "With age comes wisdom."
Sometimes when you've been around the block a few times you understand that that "stranger" pulling up in that car is looking to drag your ass around the block...
9 year-olds don't do logic, sorry... (even IF they are good at parroting, which is how the young "learn")
Live long enough and you will see everything. Understanding the fundamentals of.....nothing
Buying bitcoin through a trust is a waste of fucking time. This was a trial balloon released in an effort gauge client interest. Period.
You don't (read; CAN'T) "gauge client interest" in 24 hours. Never. Ever.
You MAY however gauge BANKSTER FUROR in that timeframe. Swift. Severe.
Your "trial ballon" is possible...just not for the reasons you speculated.
If you like your bit coins, you can keep them.... or not.
The point is, ladies and gentleman, that Bitcoin, for lack of a better currency, is good. Bitcoin is right, Bitcoin works. Bitcoin clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Bitcoin, in all of its forms; Bitcoin for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Bitcoin, you mark my words, will not only save Fidelity, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.
We said Gordon Bitcoin, well said.
silicon horseshoe LOVES Anabit steel.
Bitcoin works. Remind me of that when everything goes south and you need an extra gun or some water, and your neighbor/best friend tells you to shove that thumb drive up your ass, and hand over your gold watch, bracelet ect...
Your lack of experience and youth really show when you make comments like that. It's obvious that you've never had to experience any sort of real hardship in your short little narcissistic existence.
We've been reminding you for a year now. And we will surely remind you a year from now.
Hey,
Did anything else of yours return 9000% last year?
a couple of pennystocks could have but there are so many, hard to pick the right one.
Feel bad for the bag-holder stuck when it drops to 0.02 pennies and they do.
As will bitcoin.
Cry no tears over money made in the casino - someone else lost a lot more and be glad not to be one of them.
For those who got bitcoin at 1200 and see it go to 12, there will be many tears.
Is this how you intend not to be one of them, to push it to find more bag-holders?
You'll be the bag-holder, and be happy about it.
@Yen (Perpetually) Cross
Remind me when those people in the phillipines used gold to buy their food and water.
Oh wait, they didn't did they? Didn't see ONE story about it. It obviously was a cabal of anti-goldbug evil government types covering up all the grateful citizens buying their food with gold coins. I mean, think of the effort it must've taken to prevent all of those success stories from being aired.
Funny how you can have a complete disaster, the kind that bunker/stackers dream of, and there isn't a single solitary example among the suffering where gold made a difference. Reality is a wonderful teacher, isn't it?
they sure as hell didn't use bitcoin: no grid to use it on.
They used any local currency, perhaps silver also, just DID it instead of advertising they were targets for looting who had precious metals, and survived.
Pretty sure any number of fools who got nothing had bitcoins and realized how destroyed they were before they turned to corpses.
Reality: we don't fucking tell you when we barter for goods with gold or silver, we do it and never tell you because it's dangerous to tell you.
@MDBogus
Oooooh so you're saying that its all SO SECRET, that nobody KNOWS, ever? Damn, good call. I'll have to scour the video and see if there were some people throwing gold gang signs to let everyone know they had some food for the 'shiny stuff'.
bitcoin does none of these things which is why I have none.
When it can do these things I'll re-think it. It isn't.
"Bitcoin works"
I think that that is a bit premature, or, at the very least, insufficiently targeted.
I'd agree that in "theory" it works.
In the "real world," however, it appears to be struggling a bit (Chinese govt declaration, then this major US financial instutution). Keep in mind that I quoted "real world." I don't think that by measuing BitCoin within the confines of our current distorted prism of a "real world" we can declare success or "works." Again, within our current "real world" what "works" is what TPTB say "works." If TPTB cannot put their seal of safety on it (which is really only a seal of safety for THEM) then I'm seeing a pretty damn big hurdle to achieve that declaration of "works."
My "test," as feable as it may appear to some of the more "educated" types, is how well something can be used when it is more distanced from the control of TPTB. Being a rural type, I tend to see things with regard to the "rural" mindset, you know, folks that look, live and think more like trailer trash (crap! I've given myself away!) than a Bill Gates- how well does/would BitCoin work for these kinds of folks?
Fidelity's logo pretty much tells us where they're coming from, no? Bitcoin is a threat to the existing paradigm and thus to the PTB. It's one thing to allow us to use BTC to buy itunes, but for them to give it easy acceptance and validation as an "investment vehicle" is a whole other kettle of fish...
Well f*ck 'em. Like others here have said, it's much better to own them directly. If you're confused about wallets, etc,, you don't have to be. Just use Coinbase.com. Coinbase makes buying, selling, and storing BTC very easy and secure. Very reputable outfit as well.
Hope for a crash and BTFBTCD. Don't make me spell it out :-)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2428278,00.asp
"Bitcoin wallet and platform Coinbase has received a large infusion of cash from well-known venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz. Coinbase today announced a $25 million series B funding round led by Andreessen, with participation from existing investors Union Square Ventures and Ribbit Capital. Andreessen Horowitz's Chris Dixon and Union Square Ventures' Fred Wilson will join the Coinbase board, while Gavin Andresen is now a Coinbase advisor. In a blog post, Coinbase said the investment is the largest for a bitcoin operation to date, bringing its total funding to $31 million."
Just announced today.
Thank you for sharing the piece. Looks like Coinbase is here to stay and will continue to be a major player. In your opinion, what's the significance of this move?
I havent formed one. I dont use coinbase and I'm not familiar with VC generally. I dont know the track record of these particular VC.
I merely wanted to post the quote and link in response to your mention of coinbase, in the spirit of sharing information and making it easily accessable in apropos places.
I plan on looking into this farther though so I can continue to make informed decisions as best as I'm able to.
It's much more bullish than fideltity getting into/exiting BTC in my simple mind.
"Big news indeed. This guy invested in Facebook, Groupon, Twitter, Skype, etc if I recall"
"Coinbase is not a full-fledged exchange like Bitstamp; I assume because of the legal-ramifications in the US of doing so. I'd watch for Coinbase to announce a full exchange, though... This round of funding is probably large enough for them to get money-transmission licenses in most states, thereby paving the way for them to operate a full exchange in addition to their existing services."
"This is a big deal for bitcoins! With $25M funding, and a new trusted board member, it would be safe to assume Coinbase wouldn't be running off with our coins if they get "hacked" "
Well put!
More and more people don't have "investment" or "retirement" monies anyway, and all that Fidelity and such will see is "wealth" invested from the wealthy. It's always been a small club, always will be, and that's the way that TPTB will ensure it continues to be.
Get about establishing how you're going to live in the future. Since I'll be around a bunch of rural folks I'm not thinking that BitCoin is going to be all that viable. Select the tools that you find appropriate in the "work" that you need to do, always sound advice....
where is the bitards shameless defence of there fiatcoins i need some amusement hurry up and finish crying over your reality check and get trolling fonestar it not like you have anything else to do
Here's a funny one.
BTC gave investors a 9000% return in one year.
Trololololo
except for bag-holders who got stuck at the top - they will get giant negative returns.
This means it's not a currency, it's a pennystock.
trolololololol to you too.
Speaking of bag-holders, how are those precious metals doing? That is, if the government LETS them rally.
Makes you think, doesn't it?
I am currently bearish on gold. The bullish sentiment has to be ground out of the poor old goldbugs, till they puke and fold. Maybe a drop to $800 will do the trick. Maybe then they will switch to bitcoins ha, ha.
Meanwhile JPM is quietly cornering the gold market to the long side, and China is grabbing every oz they can get.
Oddly the Bank of China are not buying bitcoins. Quite the contrary, they banned Chinese banks from dealing in them.
@xxxxx
It was admittedly a cheap shot to call out the precious metals crowd, but honestly, sometimes they need the reminder that their valuation is more under control than Bitcoin's ever will be. If anything, how PM's are treated is a warning to anything that comes after.
China is doing fine. They ring-fenced Bitcoin the same way they did Hong Kong, allowing it exist and thrive. It is true they don't want their banking system dealing with products using it, but BTC China, one of the largest exchanges, is operating just fine. In fact, they've eclipsed most USA and other countries volume for trading BTC.
The Bank of China isn't buying Bitcoins, true - but at the same time they're not forbidding their citizens to take their own risks in doing so.
"The Bank of China isn't buying Bitcoins, true - but at the same time they're not forbidding their citizens to take their own risks in doing so."
I am not knocking the Chinese, but it's well known they will gamble on anything including bitcoin.
all of my physical assets are doing pretty good over all my precious metals are currently worth about 600% moar than i paid for them and i dont have worry about some bank not accepting them or even the US accepting them i have never seen any one turn down being paid in gold or silver in fact theres a little light in thier eyes
then again you seem to see bitcoin being turned down alot here lately
no, it doesn't.
I have options calls for paper price chasing.
For metal itself the wealth is the atoms. They are wealth by ATOMS, by weight alone. No price in dollars matters after, only the lowest possible cost in hours, forced into dollars (not my choosing) to acquire.
Not one shall be sold for paper, ever.
I have slv call 29 / 2015 jan, 2x agq call 2015jan / strike 33, 1 more for strike 35, and when I get a chance, I'll pick up agq call strike 25 expiry 2016 jan.
By that time my estimation is silver in the 70-100/oz range and at 70 agq is 205, at 100 agq is over 400. At 200 I'll pocket from that last contract a decent $17,500, at agq to 400 silver to 100, I'll pocket from that ONE contract $39,000 or around 98x multiplier of money put in.net of fees.
It will leave bitcoin in the dust.
And not a single atom of silver or gold shall move to accomplish it.
Fiat for fiat,
atoms for atoms.
Never the twain shall be traded in error by me - atoms do not leave my side for electrons.
And if someone were out in the "outback" somewhere and needed to barter for something from the more primative of peoples (again, I'm out in the rural hinterlands, where trailer trash rule!) what would you carry in your "wallet?" Shit, I've got really bad Internet service in my "civilized" country, what the heck is it like in less "civilized" places? Yeah, carrying around PMs might be cumbersome, but so too might carrying all that computer gear (even if just an iThing you would have to be prepared for no power, possibly having to travel long distances for reception of some cell tower [IF], etc etc etc.). In cities I can see it easier to carry something along the lines of BitCoin (relying on the "cloud" infrastructure etc.).
If I had a penny for every time I'd heard someone spout of knowing "certainties," and being certainly wrong, well... emotions and prejudices (with deception ever-present underneath it all) tend to make for great blinders. The term "field testing" is quite meaningful to me (well, being a farmer who tends to be outstaning in his field and all...). I've had LOTs of exposure to tech, I've seen MANY wild claims, claims that later on end up being signficantly toned down; this isn't to say, however, that I do not use tech (I see it only as a transition- I'll miss a bunch of it).
I never PUSH any "solution." Everything is situational. It's enough of a risk to assume responsibility for making one's own decisions, let alone making decisions for the entire planet.
In other news*, United States dollar almost doubles in value in a single day!
</sarc>
________________
* From the Bitcoin world's own version of the Onion
lol best response yet
"I still don’t quite know why I got into these “bucks” back in the day. I guess it was just a wild hair. Now they’re all sitting in the corner with my beanie babies and tulip bulbs. I’m still hoping that they’ll be worth something someday."
Bitcoin for self-directed iras? You can't be serious.
They let people put Enron and JDSU in their IRA's. Why not Bitcoin.
Personally, I'm waiting until they come out with a triply-levered Bitcoin ETF. Until then, does anyone know of a brokerage that allows me to buy Bitcoins on margin?
There is a way to speculate on bitcoin long or short through Forex contracts offered by Plus500 a London Forex dealer listed on the London Stock Exchange.
Here is the link.
http://www.plus500.com/?id=77170&pl=2
Contracts are for 1/10 of a bitcoin Initial margin is 10% with a 5% maintenance margin
The contracts expire on a daily basis so are sold if not closed.
You can of course re buy the next day.
The contracts are backed by bitcoins on MtGox.
Advantages.
You don't need to buy bitcoins or worry they will be stolen.
Liquidity is instant.
Orders are executed instantly no commissions. The broker makes money on the spread between the bid and ask price.
Your money is safe.
If you download the demo trading platform they give you about 25 euros free once you verify your account which is very easy, and takes about 2 minites. Just your name and address and they send a 3 digit code to your phone. Enter it and the account is validated.
You are dealing with a reputable party authorized and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority in the UK. Its Australian operations are regulated by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission.
the company's Market capitalization to US$ 200million.
The website and the platform are available in 31 different languages in over 30 different domains.
They even have a affiliate program so every trader you refer, you make money.
You are not dealing with a fly by night bitcoin broker, who may take your money and bitcoins with no legal recourse.
Disadvantages
It is not open to Americans
You are leveraging something that is very volatile making it trading on speed.
You do not actually own bitcoins it's a CFD contract for difference so you make money only if the price goes up and you are long
Or when the price goes down and you are short.
Bitcoin is completely unregulated. To the point where financial services employees don't have to declare trading positions, how much they have bought and sold etc etc. It's not considered as a regulated financial instrument. Which is a good and bad thing. Discuss.
Liberty Reserve a cautionary tale for bitcoiners.
http://forexmagnates.com/fx-traders-stunned-as-liberty-reserve-shuts-down/
Here are the Cliffnotes.
Liberty Reserve, the leading payment channel for traders in emerging and frontier markets, has come under fire and the firm has been taken out of operation.
Authorities flagged his firm for money laundering. Apart from financial and general e-commerce, it is thought by the investigators that the company engages in illicit payments from criminal activity such as child pornography and drug trafficking.
[But that never happens with bitcoins...right]
Liberty Reserve is a payment channel whereby people can send and receive secure payments without revealing their account numbers or identities.
[sound familiar]
Liberty Reserve has been widely used by traders where central banks restrict bank transfers to foreign entities; for example in countries such as Malaysia, Pakistan, Argentina, Nigeria and Brazil.
The service offers traders a fast and cost effective method with charges capped at $2.99.
[sound familiar]
Liberty Reserve’s website has been shut down and none of their international representatives in India or Malaysia were reachable for comment. Dery Rusdan one of the largest introducing brokers in Indonesia said in a comment to Forex Magnates: “We always thought that Liberty Reserve could have issues like e-gold but this was a shock, business will suffer.”
A Dubai based brokerage firm who wished to remain anonymous told us: “We average around $250,000 to half a million in monthly deposits, mainly from Asia and Africa.
Forex traders have faced issues with payment providers in the past, like with e-gold, a digital currency provider that was found guilty of money laundering by US authorities”.
@xxxxx
Liberty Reserve is indeed a warning, but not for the reasons you may think. First, they are a centralized service. (Or were, before the bust.) This meant servers that could be controlled and other avenues that authorities found quite easy to put a stop to.
While Bitcoin itself is decentralized, there are a number of "choke points" in the form of the exchanges. That is where your comparison works somewhat, but it overlooks the other avenues of buying and selling that don't depend on these central points.
Overall, it is a cautionary tale for those that run services that don't try to adhere to basic requirements. Most exchanges that I know have made changes to make this happen.
In the long run though, the exchanges won't be necessary, this is just the "boot strap" period where bad money is turned into good, and it stays that way. (A majority of it does, at any rate.)
"While Bitcoin itself is decentralized, there are a number of "choke points" in the form of the exchanges."
bitcoin is decentralized only in the abstract.
You realize the bitcoin exchanges or "choke points" as you call them operate in sovereign jurisdictions around the world, without the regulatory consent of that jurisdiction. In other words if that jurisdiction choose to close them down, they could and would.
"In the long run though, the exchanges won't be necessary, this is just the "boot strap" period where bad money is turned into good, and it stays that way."
I assume that after the "boot strap period" all sovereign states, along with their fiat currencies and the entire world banking system will have ceased to exist. That's a pretty tall order good luck with that.
"You realize the bitcoin exchanges or "choke points" as you call them operate in sovereign jurisdictions around the world"
I don't know why people cannot accept this fact, this reality. Again, this is pretty much what China has done by forbidding its use by its banks: they "choked" it on a more granular level).
The existing central banks can come up with their new "Bretton Woods" system that uses its own BitCoins. The agreement would be that only this/their form of electronic currency is to be accepted. Any other currency would have to be "converted," and the conversion process would create the trail for "conformity" ("anti-terrorist" mechanism).
Excellent!
I wonder how TPTB will manage to guarantee that they make MOAR off of this than everyone else? Have progeny to make sure gets carried forward with silver spoons... (please remember to help them in this endeavor by ensuring that there are no "death taxes" [we like to continue to see Kennedy and Bush families!]).
Baidu, Fidelity. In, out, in, out, shake it all about.
Well done, Fidelity. Others may risk their money on a chance new thing called bitcoin.
Fiduciary duty is more important.
Also, the law as it is now, not as some might wish it to be.
Making money is easy. Keeping it is another level of awareness.
More push-back by/from TPTB:
European Union Warns on Bitcoinhttp://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/european-union-warns-on-bitcoin/?...