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Bitcoin Crashes After China Bans New Deposits; PBOC Gets DDOSed In Retaliation
Yesterday it was the US Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network that tightened its grip on businesses that accept Bitcoin. Today, it is China, where the world's largest Bitcoin exchange by trading volume, BTCChina announced that he had received word from "above" that his platform would no longer be able to accept renminbi from BTC buyers. "As of right now, we have received notice from our third-party payment company that they will disallow customers from making deposits into our exchange," Bobby Lee, a former Yahoo developer who co-founded BTCChina this year, told the Financial Times. The result, not surprisingly, is an overnight crash in BTC, which crashed by 50% from $900 two days ago to just $455 hours ago.
More from the FT:
With its booming market for commerce, China had been seen by Bitcoin enthusiasts as fertile ground for the virtual currency. However, regulators were concerned that people could use Bitcoins to skirt the country’s capital controls. They also grew alarmed at the rampant speculative demand for Bitcoins, warning it had the makings of a bubble.
The Chinese central bank took a hard line two weeks ago, banning the country’s financial institutions from handling Bitcoin transactions.
Although the People’s Bank of China said individuals were still free to trade it at their own risk, the ban on third-party payment service providers from doing Bitcoin business effectively makes new purchases of the virtual currency impossible.
“I’m not that surprised,” said Hong Hao, chief China strategist at Bank of Communications. “Even if the amount of Bitcoin in circulation wasn’t that large yet, it was a potential threat to the monetary system.”
Mr Lee of BTCChina said the emphasis of the notice was on deposits, meaning that customers with existing renminbi balances would still be able to withdraw their cash from the exchange. “They are completely safe,” he said, adding that people with money already deposited on the exchange still had the option of buying Bitcoins.
...
China’s capital controls mean it takes time for investors to arbitrage the difference between prices in and outside the country.
In a world where the central banks are actively engaged in gold capital controls (and have been for over 40 years), and the BIS has its own in-house gold prices suppression team, nobody could have possibly seen this coming.
We are, of course, joking. But some who apparently were angry and did not see this coming, were the computer hackers of the world. As @george_chen reports, the PBOC reported it was promptly DDOSed in retaliation for China's overnight crackdown on Bitcoin.
BREAKING NEWS: CHINA CENTRAL BANK (PBOC) WEB UNDER ATTACK; UNSTABLE FOR ACCESS; LOCAL MEDIA BLAME BITCOIN INVESTORS pic.twitter.com/uXEoPWfxoP
— George Chen (@george_chen) December 18, 2013
MORE: PBOC TOLD MEDIA THIS AFTERNOON "WAS FIXING WEB"; MEDIA BLAMED "FOREIGN BITCOIN INVESTORS" FOR DDOS ATTACK story:http://t.co/E1KCVS73X7
— George Chen (@george_chen) December 18, 2013
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The only way to defeat them is to DISENGAGE from the global control grid. States, counties, citiies need to disengage (secede) from the federal (US, EU) money funnels. Engage in bilateral trade agreements between small states rather than regional (TPP, TTIP, NAU, etc) corporatist control agreements.
BitCoin is/was ALL of these...and so will be its successor/s.
I might dip my toe in and buy a few BTC if they get < $100. Kinda like buying a bunch of lottery tickets for Christmas.
I bought a few megamillions tickets yesterday just for the hell of it. Didn't. Match. One. Number. Just sayin'.
The thing is, you can grow tulips a hell of a lot faster than you can grow bitcoins. So they tell me, anyways.
But growing tulips takes real work and "mining" bitcoins only requires electricity and a foolish expensive minicomputer....
Can you hit someone over the head with a roll of bitcoins?
nop, all you could do was buy a footlong sandwich at subway and get your teeth pulled by that Polish dentist.
...or a Farrari.
How's that dealership feeling right about now?
No, fiat is latin for "by decree". Bitcoin was valuable "by decree"....of its supporters, and very few else, which is why it STILL isn't widely accepted as a store of value or for use in everyday market transactions (i.e. gas for your car, a haircut, etc).
'by decree' does indeed paraphrase 'fiat' but it refers to government decreeing a currency having value, not the market.
So... tally sticks were fiat, seashells/silver/gold were not. See the difference? If the English government had collapsed, or been taken over, the new authorities could decree tally sticks to be worthless (and they did, eventually).
Neither silver nor gold are fiat currencies, despite many people believing them to have money-like value.
SD -- "fiat" currency is currency that is backed only by the threat of force. "Accept this or we will harm you."
No one is forcing you to accept BTC, so it is not "fiat" currency.
I believe it is worth much less than the current price, which has been driven almost solely by speculative mania and revelations about widespread criminal spying by 'governments' -- but no way is it fiat.
I'll explain you when the next ponzi con game like bitcoin is pushed to the lemmings.
A con game works on trust, not force. That's why it's called a con game, and not simple theft.
You get the mark to voluntarily cough up his money, by manipulating his beliefs.
Believe me! Bitcoin will go to a million!!!!
NOW BUY MY BITCOINS FOR 1200$!!!
Uh oh about to crash right through $600
what where you saying? I was looking at all those empty spaces in your mouth where you're teeth used to be before you sold them off for that bitcoin you have...
your*
Yep, lower lows and lower highs. Broke through rising trendline. Not good.
Yes, bitcoin is either fiat OR its pyramid scheme, there is no other option, i say its not fiat, its pyramid. People will choose to except something that is worthless either by force or by promise/hope of speculative gains, there is no other way. So thank you for clearing that up that bitcoin is pyramid and not fiat.
Everything worthwhile is a pyramid scheme. Fondling your shinies all alone is not worthwile unless they are worth something to others at a later date.
Yawn... Wake me up when they invent your precious BTC's atomic number.
Until then, ta-ta, suckerz!
Considering every time a coin is mined, the early adopters get more rich.. I wonder which one this is? /end sarc.
How does increasing supply, on it's own, make an asset more valuable? Econ 101 Proffesor?
Because BitCoin has a LIMIT to how many coins you can produce.
@Sudden Debt
So how are those Euros in your bank account doing? Are they still there? I hear there is going to be another "bail-in" to relieve you of the excess. Either that, or they're going to print more debt to make them even more worthless.
Guess you're just smart enough to use a computer to post, but not enough to hedge out of your own crappy currency...
I will save this post and torment you with it two years from now.
Pop, it's actually the 4th bubble to pop in 3 years for bitcoin.
Still up 4000% here .... Yawn .... More ups and downs to come.
There's one born every minute... more down's than ups I'm afraid. Never mind, look on the bright side, you'll soon be able to buy them all now, for about $1 all in.
Just think of all those Chinese dudes now trying to exit a $1,214.00 trade at what, must be around fuck all squared by now...
Let it not be said that you weren't warned...
if there were more downs the ups then the price would be in negative price terms. So more ups and than downs. Nice try.
and warned about what ? that the BTC I bought at $10 may be worth $10 again ? the horror.
If there are idiots out there that buy something after watching it go up 500% in 2 weeks, thats their problem, but not mine.
You never know, if you stay in long enough you might even break even...
It's worked for silver that's for sure .............. I'm really sticking it to the man with that "investment" as I bought at $20, watched it go to $40 with all "smart" people screaming it was going to $500, and now back under $20 ...... I still havent sold it yet either, for the same reason I havent sold my BTC. Both have a long way to go and both will require patience and vision.
Silver is at the convergience of a two year down trend and a 10 year up trend. They cross sometime before April next year. My thoughts are that before then we will see $18.50 before it goes up and a long way up, but not long now.
Silver has an intrinsic value and a use it can be put to when it is not in use as a money, which is more than can be said for bitcoin, which can go to zero and stay there. Just watch and see.
@Harlequin
If you looked at a long-term chart, you'd see there has been more "ups" than "down's". But what the hell am I doing, asking a barking seal troll to use LOGIC and FACTS.
Excuse me, please go back to farting in the bathtub, going full retard, as it were.
Also this morning Moody's and S&P have moved Hugh Hendry's Eclectica Asset Managment from credit watch list down to junk.
One of the reasons cited earlier..............."due to the funds significant exposure to BTC" said a spokeswoman for the agency.
We await further news from the company.
Angry Bitcoiners Crash All Global Banks... All Customer Deposits (investment) Lost!
Yellen says they were going to taper, but now that the cryptoanarchichist, metals loving, government distrusters have STOLEN all the money ....the banks and FED are insolvent.
FED and global CBs offering $500,000 reward per terrorist turned in.
Too bad the sheep wont get that $500,000 wont buy them a rallys cheeseburger.
Ahhh shit ..this is going to suck.
RIPS
I thought it was invincible?
what was?
The sales pitch...
Long live BitCoin! Bitcoin is dead!
Long live Litecoin! Litecoin is dead!
Long live Namecoin! Namecoin is dead!
Long live TBTFCoin! The Dollar is dead!
See how this plays out kids?
You can't destroy an idea! ...no, but you can destroy how its traded.
I have about 500 idea's a day... and I can't remember most of them after 5 seconds and by tomorrow they're all replaced by 500 new idea's.
I think that's called Parkinsons...
Fonestar has left the building and is rumored to be hiding in some unknown South American country.
South American country=Mom's basement, behind the dryer.
fonestar trusted bitcoin
Given the history of bitcoin, why are you guys so quick to pronounce it dead??? It's no different from the guys predicting it will hit the moon just because it hit $14, $140, $400, $1200 ...
Sure it might die (for all I know), but history sez it won't go down without a fight or ten.
ANNNNNnnnnnddd......it's gone.
SEE YA FUCKSTAR.........!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA !!!!!!
Crank that GPU bitch !!!! You're going to need MOAR !!!
Welcome to the psychopath world of currency creation. SUCK IT !!!
There is a reason why only items such as gold, silver & other precious metals have been able to withstand the test of time.
"And in related news, a prominent ZeroHedge commenter and Bitcoin advocate known as fonestar was rushed to a local hospital today with a brain aneurysm. While being transported to the hospital he was said to be quoting word for word the reporting of Herbert Morrison when the Hindenburg crashed - 'It's burning and bursting into flames, and the...and it's falling on the mooring-mast and all the folks agree that this is terrible, this is one of the worst catastrophes in the world. [Indecipherable word(s)] It's–it's–it's the flames, [indecipherable, possibly the word "climbing"] oh, four- or five-hundred feet into the sky and it ... it's a terrific crash, ladies and gentlemen. It's smoke, and it's flames now ... and the frame is crashing to the ground, not quite to the mooring-mast. Oh, the humanity...'"
Hey, where are the photos of lines at the Bitcoin ATMs?
Was calling for a decline these past few days, but keep on with that "bitcoin is dead" stuff, its so precious the fourth time around...
Now back to the charts :)
Crash bitches!
SELL MORTIMER SELL!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8H2FIf1oH4
Aaaannnnddddd its gone!
Ahh yes, herro!
.....and it's gone.
I thought it would be different......you know......this time.
On todays episode of As The Bit Churns, foney learns that CH1 has been cheating on him with that floozy silver and vows revenge.
I've always had a thing for silver and gold.
Their attraction can not be denied.
Especially around the holidays. Gotta love that song by Yukon Cornelius
Oh Fonestar??????????
He puked his guts out and is all balled up at the moment.
I think at the moment he's trying to open another ZH account...
No, Fonestar, cannot publicly admit he was wrong, because that is the same as publicly admitting that he was an idiot. Psychologically speaking that is why a lot of people ride investments all the way to zero.
Are we all picking on Fonestar because, were upset we didn't buy bitcoins when they were still under 100? Yeah i don't the idea of virtual money, and prefer tangible gold and silver, but still... I think the guy deserves a little credit.. Unless bitcoin is just a big evil deceptio to divert us from buying PMs...
So give him a hand then, we all think he's a twat.
Psychology of previous investment, confirmation bias, emotional attachment, etc.
TPTB don't like competition.
Such malice from gloating gold bugs.
>> Such malice
What did you think snotty arrogance would bring on?
I can tell you I am not gloating. I don't think this is over yet. they are pissing off the techies now. I hope this is just the beginning of a beautiful war.
You're a goldbug? When the hell did that happen?
I own gold. I am also a realist. It can happen.
I own gold.
On purpose?
Only once on purpose (it's a long story and I'm not proud). Every other time it was by accident.
I'd tell my story.....but it really pisses off the hippies.....so I'm just gonna shutup.
On porpoise?
What, with Flipper's friendly finger?
..and that hippie talk reminds me of a very friendly granny in Big Sur.. but oops, I will be quiet now, too.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
You guys are vicious. Bitcoin is a good thing, even if we don't quite understand why. I own silver, gold, land and other tangible things, but I'm an old one.
Fonz, "they are pissing off the techies now"
I'm willing to bet the DDoS "attack" is fake. They took away their fiat link, then blamed a crime on them.
u are probably right. i mean in a more general sense. people are finally starting to innovate with currency, and are getting introduced to the enemy.
The DDoS attack fake? How else to explain that the PBOC's website went down? Mid-day maintenance??
China graduates 300K engineers a year.. they might not all be busy doing other stuff.
WD
By "fake" I'm assuming you mean "the ones" that have everything under control and have our backs making peace and democracy safe from "terrorists"?
That data center out in Denver's been busy as of late...
Precisely
Not questioning the site going down, just who's responsible
"They" are not the enemy. I am just saying. I have to agree, they are not dummies.
Such malice from gloating gold bugs.
They don't really want to defeat the cartel. What they want is a self-congratulation club.
Bitcoin is harshing their buzz.
yeah, lets defeat the cartel with digital tulips! But but but they are "distributed", yeah more than 50% of all are distributed between less than 100 people... uncentrilized my ass.
the Chinese currency is a fraud...that's why they aren't merely banning bit coin but are going out of there to eliminate it as a medium of exchange. "they know worthless when they see it" and BTC is a clear and present danger to their theory that they're building anything but the Boomdoggle Express in the Orient. "as long as people keep buying the fiction that the yuan is real money" then everything is fine. The fact of the matter is that is a complete falsehood and bitcoin miners know it. Their attack meets all the criteria for a grade a punisher: swift, certain and severe. Simply put finance ceases to exist when the phones lines are cut...and that's what a denial of service attack in fact is. not saying buy BTC.....I can see it's value dropping far lower from here. having said that the mark of a trader is that it metes out punishment in some way when it gets attacked. be interesting to see if/how/when this escalates.
And Chinese currency strong to the dollar..
Global transactions with about 0 costs. Fuck that. I prefer JPM's money transfer services.
Wanna defeat the cartel, become more self reliant!
Disconnect from the system, learn new 'old' skills like growing more of your own food.
Learn to make your own sourdough starter and make nutritious bread with all the vitamins unlocked and available. http://sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=startingastarter
Learn to create a local economy in your neighborhood, join or create a community of like minded, liberty loving patriots.
Attend a local city or county government meeting, get involved in being the catalyst for change.
Quit looking to Vichy DC to fix our problems.
Starve them of both currency and attention!
/rant off
DaddyO
My list:
Grow as much of your own food as possible.
Minimize the need for healthcare - eat healthy, exercise, read books, get enough sleep.
Don't go back to school if you are over 35 years old.
Never watch MSM news.
Fix and reuse things until they can't be fixed any more.
Exercise and don't watch MSM news, definitely the keys to health and happiness! And not losing your mind!
CH1
The secret jewish, debt-money, banking cartel that enslaves us all was doomed on day one, the day it started. Just.Simple.Math.
bitcoiners, dont delude yourselves that invisible coins were going to bring down the cartel that was designed to fail thru it own greedy machinations.
btw, fuck you and happy hannuka
@CH1
Yeah, starting to think that these "preppers" and "stackers" don't give a shit about being prepared or hedged, they just want to lord it over everyone about how well-off they'll be when the shit hits the fan. A variation on the "keeping up with the joneses" except its played out with how big your bunker is, and how large of a walk-in vault you have for your 'stack'.
Consumerism translated over into the realm of the paranoid, but not so paranoid as not to brag about it. Witness Hedgless Horseman's lovingly photographed locally-made meals, the excess of comments about what kind of gun/ammo to buy, the recommendations of dealers in gold bars and coins. They want to share, they NEED to share, to show everyone how "right" they are and how willing they are to see the world burn.
Take the labels off and recontextualize it, it might as well be a bunch of Bentley owners talking about their deluxe concealable pop-down garages, their security systems and of course, the wall safe full of rare cigars and hunting trophies.
Its the displacement of disposable income masquerading as a somber and sensible investment. No wonder they make fun of Bitcoin, not only do they not understand it, but they don't see how they can use it to brag about their foresight and preparedness.
Like it matters to me, at all, while they're counting down eagerly, waiting for the doomsday clock to hit midnight, Bitcoiners are actually fighting the system by participating in something that has benefits that go beyond a bunker or wall safe. Something that adds up to social justice in the face of rampant corruption and wealth inequality.
But they'll keep it up, because that's all they know, much like the inmate that goes back to prison after being freed, because the real world is too much of an unknown compared to the spartan cell they lived in for 30 years.
What I find interesting about this is article, the hack attack is blamed on bitcoiners. Like they're some kind of terrorist. I'm sure they'll end up doing this to Gold holders as well.
I think the angst is caused more by the perception of those who hold Bitcoins. Since it is digital and "technical" the average Joe (or Wang, as the case may be) finds it easier to blame shit like this on those he isn't connected to in some way.
Gloating crypto-anarchists who are going to "take the whole system down" right after their hot pocket is done. That's who is controlling the narrative for BitCoin. This is Communist China FFS. You think that mantra is going to play well in Beijing. Did you think China would allow a vehicle for mainlaind wealth to exit the MotherLand without tribute to the CCP? I have contempt for bureaucrats like the rest but not all are fucking stupid. This is the Achilles heel of the Bitcoiners. They think they know everything because it's "Math" and "Computery" and everyone else is stupid. A billy club beats poetry everytime.
Now that ASICs and GPUs are pretty worthless for mining except for new coins, let's see the interest maintained. Fonestar seems to own 70% of the BTC market so his stash puts on floor on things I guess.
And before any retaliatory spew flies, all the BTC punters know for a fact that this is BAD. The Yuan/<Western World> arbitrage is pretty much shutdown at this point. You have to figure the China holders will exit with great haste.
Apparently you are peculiarly unaware of who the biggest holders of bullion are in the world.
The Central Banks.
Praise be to the Central Banks?
Its not malice.
I for one, would have loved BTC to work.Was not going to happen.Its been crushed by the PTB just
like gold and silver.The fiatmasters will alow no competition to their power.Period.
Back to the drawing board.
Why are you using past tense here? Bitcoin protocol still running worldwide, still the best performing asset year-to-date.
Yep. You can't move yuan into BTC electronically? No problem, time to move it to the streets. Physical cash for BTC. Or... dare I say... gold and silver for BTC??
Obviously this article is something along the lines of an Onions hack job. I was just recently assured by someone very knowledgeable that bitcoin was out of the reach of TPTB. I'm sure said spokesman will be here to refute this rubbish article, as soon as he's finished loading the boat at $700.
What the Bitcoin idiots will say is this.
But TPTB have never stopped file sharing, illigal music and move downloads, etc...so how can they stop Bitcoin...
Well, ok, but what happens when you want something that CAN NOT be sent down your internet connection....like a car, a freezer, a house.....all TPTB have to do to kill it, is make it illigal for business to trade in it.......
And Fonestar ran away,but fear not...I gave him the "I TOLD YOU SO" a couple weeks ago, knowing that this was coming, and also knowing that when it did, he would run away like the kid that he is. Shame, he is stuck in his mothers attic. But maybe he should look in the mirror and ponder...."Why am I still lilving at home with my mom, could it be that I am pretty stupid with money so can't afford to feed and look after myself"???
He gave away his hard earned "money" and got what in return? a USB stick with some bits on it........SUCKER!!.....lol.
Central Banks Launching Worldwide Coordinated Attack On Bitcoin
Bitcoin Bubble is busted, trades below $350 on BTCChina. Now U.S. Treasury is moving according to the plan we have discussed few days ago.Will Gold shine again with "Gold 2.0" in metdown now?
All these actions are coordinated, as you can see now. Pump it Up and Crash it hard - how many will be left to support the brilliant idea? We will note one more time very important coincidence: according to the reports JPMorgan is Net Long Gold now. Crashing Bitcoin will send Gold much higher, maybe JPMorgan knows something the others don't?
http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/european-banking-authority-warns.htm...
That's going to leave a mark on some BTC wallets.
That's going to leave a mark on some BTC wallets.
Which would make you very happy. You might want to look at that.
Sell your cyberchits and buy some rounds of XAG. They're on sale and you won't regret it. I said last week BTC looked like it was going to the mid 700s and if that broke it would fall to the mid 500s. People are going to be much more cautious now that prices are higher. Especially if they got burned at the top. Don't expect the types of price moves back up that you've experienced in the past.
CH1, I give you props for showing up to this "I told you so" feeding frenzy of a post.
Wondering if they could do the same to gold? Oh wait, they tried and FAILED...for 5000 years now. Thats why a physical currency will ALWAYS be preferable to an imaginary one. So long bitcoin wannabes!
First they laugh at you, then they fight you...
Then the FED fucks you in the ass.
LOL
LOL. Let's go brother. I got some BTC rolling here. Get your blockchain wallet going and I will give you some. We will get to the bottom of this bullshit once and for all.
Why can't bitcoin just be pegged to the dollar so it's 1 for 1. it would give stability to people who hesitate to accept them. I mean the whole point of bitcoin (I thought) is to evade taxation and all your transactions are totally private. The part about everyone becoming billionaire's speculating seems to have taken over. As long as the other two aspects are still in place it seems to have a purpose.
Unless those other two aspects are not accurate. I have no idea.
You really need to do some reading on this.....
There are just so many things wrong with your comment it is hard to know where to start.
Yeah I am sure there is a lot wrong with my comment. I am sure I don't understand it. I am still waiting for all the bitcoin bugs to come on here bragging about all the great things they were able to purchase when they cashed in (even partially for Chrissakes) their botcoin. So far I still have not seen anything.
You forgot your /sarc tag up there fonz...
Most recent coins i bought were at $666 so I'll keep my head down regarding price for a little while (MtGox fighting to hold $500 it seems, for now)...
Still around to discuss technical and political aspects of bitcoin..
If I were you technically I'd sell at around $500. If you can. Which you can't.
Why not just print off a certificate and hang it on your wall, one day it might be worth $666 and you'll get your money back, though I wouldn't hold my breath waiting...
Nah, actually still accumulating, but I'll keep that a secret ;>
I would, it might get embarrassing...
Hmmmm, $710 now on MtGox-- should I sell those $666 coins? nah....
It happens. I'm all for you man. I hope it works out for you. I also agree with oddball player that it is just really down to where it was a month ago. Sure, some people got battered in the interim. Some of the gold I own is at a basis above $1,600. So I can relate. It is what it is. Good luck to you.
I wont speak for anyone else, but I dont intend to 'cash in' BTC - I intend to just accumulate it to diversify away from fiat and over priced asset classes.
Gold and silver are incredibly underpriced right now, and I believe so is BTC. Im not going to trade an oz of gold for less than half what I think its worth, or silver or a BTC. I have managed to accumulate more BTC during this latest market meltdown, and that will be my ongoing strategy.
I may adjust my positions between gold, silver and BTC - but unless I actually need to buy something I am happy to accumulate them for now - because I feel they are cheap, and are a safer store of value than equity, bonds or even real estate (though some real estate that you put to use right now for living on is a good security for non financial reasons).
At some future point, Ill trade PM's or BTC for stuff I want or need - when I think that they are fairly priced.
If anything, I think Bitcoin levels all currencies, or at least forces them to be homogenous. In my mind this makes them far more easily exchangeable, while allowing them to maintain value when currencies rise and fall aginst each other.
Other than some gray hair, am I missing something?
Hi fonz,
Bitcoin economy is growing
http://coinmap.org/
http://www.venturescanner.com/scans/bitcoin
Let crypto float against fiat. You can't print bitcoin therefore it will go up against fiat over time. There are short term issues, but not enough to stop new merchants from signng up, as below quote
"On August 1st, Coinbase reached a milestone of 200,000 users. That was quickly followed in mid-October by the news that we had reached 300,000 users. Today, there are more than 600,000 consumer Bitcoin wallets on Coinbase, signaling that we are nearing a tipping point for broad adoption of Bitcoin – what we at Coinbase believe to be one of the most important shifts in the global economy in our lifetime."
There will be bumps along the way. I have had a speculation going since May and I am up nicely even with this correction.
If there is a crash in February 2014 as many are now advocating, the price of commodities including crypto is going to rocket against fiat. Make no mistake, people are waking up and are ditching fiat. They have had enough, and governments will not be able to stop it. When hyperinflation hits, world govs are fucked. Once control over money is lost for TPTB it's game over...
For all the bitching luddite zero hedgers, I have more than 90% of my wealth in barbarous relics, but having looked at crypto, it truly is revolutionary, and I beleive it works beautifully into FOFOA's freegold thesis, with crypto rather than fiat being the scrip paper trading method.
I can't beleive anyone dumb enough not to buy a few coins at this time. These are going a lot higher
good morning skin
"You can't print bitcoin therefore it will go up against fiat over time."
Unless you find a way to securitize it. Which is where I feel this is going if it is accepted. Then the statement in quotes becomes as useless as gold as long as there is GLD
They can securitize it, but it doesn't affect the underlying bitcoin protocol. You can layer whatever securities or vehicles you want on the underlying protocol. If the securitization blows up, the underlying protocol isn't affected. Like fractional reserve banking in the days of gold. The paper ticket might be worthless, but the gold underneath wasn't.
There are already nearly 50 crypto-currencies. If they kill bitcoin, people will just go to another.
I'm in 7 or 8 different crypto's for this reason.
And check out the first of the next generation Nxtcoin https://nextcoin.org/index.php
A much smaller blockchain, no wallet.dat file, only a password. This is a big improvement on bitcoin from what I've seen thus far. It's very early days for the whole crypto revolution...
" It's very early days for the whole crypto revolution..."
well everything else aside I am pretty sure you are right about this. I hope it's for the right reasons. Have a good one I gotta run.
There are already nearly 50 crypto-currencies. If they kill bitcoin, people will just go to another.
This, to me, is cryptocurrency's biggest drawback. Unlike silver or gold, which are atomic elements with uniquely moneylike properties (gold, especially), I can see no reason why you can't have 1000 different cryptocurrncies. People routinely trot out the 'first mover' story, but it seem sto me there's no major sunk-cost or network benefits that make this analogy work.
But we'll see... it's still early days.
I still think TPTB will be releasing SDRcoin... and it will be fiat in the sense we'll all be obliged to pay our taxes with it.
Thats why I compared cryptocurrencies to company scrip. Each one can be duplicated, and each one is only as useful as what it can be used to buy.
Crypto cannot be duplicated, only mined to the predetermined algorhythm, which is part of the existing protocol.
Predetermined by agreement... kinda like banker behavior in 1913.
The source code for all the cryptos is open source, i.e anyone can look to see how it works.
Any changes to the source code and protocol need the consensus of the crypto developers, and the community generally.
As far as you can get from the secrecy and corrupt Creature of Jekyll Island...
Hi BigJim,
It's all about utility.
In a freely competitive market, the more competition the better. Most of these coins will die out, but that depends on their marginal utility to freely paying consumers.
Bitcoin is already a technological dinosaur, with a massive bloated blockchain, which makes it slow and cumbersome.
The alt-coins have been developed to improve on bitcoins properties, while nxtcoin and emunie (as two of the newest next gen cryptos) will take the utility and usability of crypto to the next level. The more utility a payment system has, the more its value will increase.
The best coins survive, and bitcoin is definitely not one of them. However, bitcoin was the first and has significant resources and development capability compared to the others at the moment. So nothing will overtake it for now.
I like to the think of Bitcoin as the Ford Model T. Trailblazing, innovative, revolutionary, but as with everything else in a free market, soon overtaken by something better...
Thanks for the reply.
As I see it, the problem is, if a currency gets 'overtaken' by another one, it spells disaster for holders of the obsolete currency. Unlike a Model T, which will carry on carrying on, irrespective of Pontiac/GM/Studebaker's latest model, once another electronic currency shows greater utility I can't see why everyone won't dump the old for the new... meaning serious downside risk for anyone holding onto a cryptocurrency. ie, one of the usual characteristics of money - it being a store of value - is intrinsically and constantly in jeopardy with a cryptocurrency.
But we shall see.. fascinating to watch, and hats off to the innovators, including our own dear fanboi FoneStar. I just hope he sold some near the top.
The link has a virus
The nextcoin link?
Skin666, two points: Coinbase is talking its book, so I wouldn't take their statement at face value. Second, you appear to be implying that bitcoin is a commodity, which is laughable. A commodity is something that is real and tangible and can be used to support or improve human life.
Hi ElvisDog,
I'm not really sure what you call bitcoin. I would plump for a Payment protocol.
It's not a commodity like gold or silver, and it isn't tangible.
But this constant reference by ZH's (who should really know better) to the 'intrinsic' value of gold, really pisses me off! Nothing has 'intrinsic' value. All value is subjective. Value is in the eyes and mind of the beholder.
Gold has subjective value because of its 5000 year history as money, and its scarcity.
Bitcoin has subjective value to its users because it can be traded and used as an alternative (and two fingers) to fiat, and unlike fiat also has scarcity.
Bitcoin I would posit has much more utility than gold as a medium of exchange, with gold having more utility as a store of value due its incorruptablility and its history as a store of value.
That's why I hold gold, silver and 8 crypto's.
I hope to gain a lot on all three...
Silver certainly does have intrinsic value due to its electrical, metallurgical, and reflective properties. I think gold has similar intrinsic value but it's really too expensive to use in manufacturing as much as silver is.
Just an addition - both are commonly used for jewelry (peacock feathers for humans), and have for thousands of years. Conspicuous displays of wealth (i.e. "status").
don't forget anti-bacterial.
is it a commodity, is it money, is it currency or is it simply a speculative trade? seeing how most BTC'rs here always value their BTC in USD, i think i have my answer as the majority view it as a trade. the hard core think of it as money (it isn't) and even fonestar thinks it's a replacement currency but he talks like it's a speculative trade. growing pains or death throes?
It may already be done in the form of paypal.
that's possible. PayPal is a payment mechanism. People are listing their mansions on Long Island for bitcoin. Obviously you can't pay your taxes in bitcoin...but the risk of abandonment is the very definition of this "recovery." they call it "jingle mail"...instead of Hoover-villes you have Obama-Cities. entire wastelands of urban space with no economic activity whatsoever. "why not bit coin?" at least it brings in a customer.
Idealogues like myself hold PM's and crypto's because we hope to see the total destruction of the dollar, and all other fiat.
We expect fiat debasement, and a final crash. When 'they' offer us a gold backed currency (centrally controlled by 'them') or they offer us more fiat, or whatever they offer us - we will tell them to go fk themselves - we have PM's in our hands, and decentralized crypto's thanks, Im all done being a slave.
I have no problem using silver and gold as money, but I do not support ANY kind of gold or silver BACKED currency that is centrally issued. If we have gold, silver, crypto's and maybe private bills all being issued in a distributed way - then we have monetary freedom - all centralized control results in debt slavery.
the current trend in neo feudal society is going the OTHER way bigtime, than your decentralised and utopian ideological dreams would warrant in order to come to fruition.
Its good to have value systems but it good to see the world the way it is. Sometimes the divide begins to look like the grand canyon and then Thelma is not far away from Louise!
ANyways, good luck to your dreams.
Your quite right, the odds arent in our favor - but there is a war on, a fight for liberty - and at this stage at least it is still a covert war, because the international criminals must convince people that they are doing 'right'. So open violence by them is a last resort, they rely on lies and deciet, but more and more people are seeing them for what they are.
Life is never about the destination, if it were we could all just lay down and die right now - life is about the journey. When the choice is to live as a slave or to fight, no matter the odds - there are always those who will chose to fight.