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Obamacare Goes Live Today: Here Is The Next Big Problem
Obamacare officially went live at midnight. This means that 2.1 million Americans (the latest enrollment number provided by the administration) will be given a chance to exercise their new plans at hospitals and clinics across the country (it was unclear what the latest number of Americans kicked off their existing plans was most recently: the tally was 4.0 million as of mid-November and it is fair to assume it has risen since then). And then the real glitches will begin.
We reported two weeks ago that navigating the healthcare.gov labyrinth successfully and "signing up" for Obamacare is one thing; actually activating coverage by making a payment is something totally different. We added that "if people don’t pay by Dec. 31, insurers may end up stuck with a disproportionate number of sicker and costlier customers."
It is this "shock" realization that one's Obamacare plan is not active until after the healthcare service has been rendered, that may hit as many as 50% of all enrollees, which means that of the 2+ million Americans who believe they have coverage, up to 1 million is about to be served with a bill which they can't afford. This also happens to be the main story across various media outlets today.
First, The Hill:
Enrollment deadline delays and processing errors at HealthCare.gov have been an administrative nightmare for insurers, and may leave some consumers discovering that they don’t have the insurance they thought they purchased when they show up at the doctor’s office.
It’s also likely that some people think they have insurance under ObamaCare but do not because they have yet to make their first premium payment. Until they do, they aren’t actually insured.
In Washington and Nevada, only about 50 percent of enrollees have made their first premium payments. Those are the only states that provide the breakdown.
“The biggest risk now is people thinking that by picking a plan, that they’re insured, when in fact final step is paying the premium,” Larry Levitt, a senior vice president with the Kaiser Family Foundation, told The Hill. “I haven’t seen good numbers on how many people are paying premiums, so that to me is the uncertainty.”
Next, it's Reuters' turn:
"It will be difficult for us to actually verify coverage - that's my concern," said Dr. William Wulf, CEO of Central Ohio Primary Care, which has 250 primary care physicians.
The task could be made more difficult by decisions by the U.S. government and many states to push back enrollment deadlines toward the end of the year, and to allow some patients well into January to pay for coverage that is retroactive to the start of the year.
The late deadlines mean that many enrollees who seek care initially may lack insurance cards or other proof of coverage. Wulf said his physician offices will assume that an existing patient is covered if they claim to be when they come in for appointments and their coverage cannot be verified immediately. But if they require expensive tests, such as MRIs or heart-stress tests that can cost up to $700, the Ohio practice will check with insurers first to make sure the patient has coverage.
Similarly, Dr. Andy Chiou, CEO of Peoria Surgical Group Ltd in Illinois, said that if the practice finds a "significant minority" of its patients do not have coverage when they believe they do, it might delay elective surgeries for patients until their insurance is confirmed.
"For the protection of patients and us, we'll have to say, 'Sorry, you don't have insurance,'" Chiou said.
That means 1 million Americans, some of whom are very ill, are about to get a big new year's disappointment from their doctor.
To be sure, some stop gap measures have been implemented: the Hill reports that some big insurers "will allow consumers to pay their first premium by Jan. 10 and still be insured on Jan. 1. In addition, Walgreens and CVS Pharmacies announced this week that they will provide up to a month of no-cost medications to consumers that haven’t received their ObamaCare IDs yet, but can prove they enrolled." However, for those who expected Obamacare to be a deus ex with zero payment at all, which appears to have been the case at nearly a majority level, no temporary measures will fix the situation that there is still a payment to be made: a payment which millions simply can not afford.
Needless to say, with 2014 an election year, the stakes for the administration are huge:
For the Obama administration, the political stakes are high in ensuring a smooth transition period for coverage, particularly after the website's problems damaged the popularity of the Democratic president and the healthcare overhaul, his top domestic achievement.
Republicans who have called Obamacare a costly program that will rob many Americans of insurance choices have said they will make Obamacare's problems their top issue in the November 2014 elections, when control of Congress will be at stake.
White House health policy adviser Phil Schiliro said on Tuesday that because of the intense focus on Obamacare, "problems that have never gotten attention before will get some attention now."
The Hill adds:
There’s little doubt the success of the healthcare law will be a big factor in Democratic efforts to retain the Senate, where Republicans need to gain six seats to win back a majority.
Doing so would be a huge blow to Obama’s remaining years in office, virtually assuring him lame-duck status through the rest of his term.
So there’s a lot at stake for the administration to ensure things go smoothly, starting on New Year’s Day.
At this point, some opt out to fall back to a naive belief that things will be well:
John Holahan, a fellow at the non-partisan Urban Institute, said the idea that people will be blindsided is foolish. “If they don’t pay they don’t have insurance, that’s part of the deal, you’re not really enrolled,” he said. “But I assume anyone who goes through the trouble of enrolling will go ahead and pay.”
Actually, most who have the free time to go through the trouble of enrolling likely don't have a source of disposable income.
A more realistic conclusion comes from Joe Antos of the conservative American Enterprise Institute, who predicted the flood of applications would be too much for the administration and the insurers to handle before the newly covered head out to exercise their plans. “There’s no way the insurance industry could hire enough people to process all that paperwork if the data was coming in correctly, and it’s not,” he said. “I think most people who think they have coverage will find some difficulty early in January."
We will find out in the coming days if the next big embarrassment for the administration will unfold and if Obama's ratings will tumble to fresh record lows as a result.
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SwmnGuy - Huge problem with deploying your approach on a nationwide scale: you've used not only the scientific method for diagnosis and treatment identification but also self-control in treatment implementation.
The bovine masses simply do not operate on this level.
I knew there had to be something wrong with my plan.
SWYMNGUY AND MIFFED /////// FOR INDEGESTION/ HEARTBURN DRINK MY FAVORITE /// GEROLSTEINER (SPARKLING NATURAL MINERAL WATER.) I NO LONGER TAKE ANY ANTACIDS,ZANTAC,ETC. THIS WATER IS ALSO DELIGHTFUL AND ECONOMICAL VS PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.
I AM 62 AND TAKE NO SCRIPTS, NOR DO I HAVE ANY INDEGESTION PROBLEMS , NO MATTER WHAT I EAT AS LONG AS I HAVE THIS WATER TO DRINK.
GOOD LUCK / HAPPY NEW YEAR
Thanks! I'll check out that water. I live in a city blessed with really good tap water, especially run through a filter. But it doesn't have any inherent properties, other than the H2O itself. It's just Mississippi river water, treated, and pulled out of the river way north of where the bad stuff starts getting into it. Congrats on good health. When I was a kid I used to just assume that but now I learn it's nothing to just assume.
Thanks nihilist cipher from me too!
When I was in France I was amazed at the popularity of mineral waters. When I ordered one they would often ask which one and pointed to a wall containing numerous brands. I was intrigued and finally asked why there seemed to be such an obsession. " For digestion of course!" was the terse answer making me feel like a simpleton for even asking.
Miffed;-)
Perhaps she will attempt to "cure" her problem rather than treat it.
Is your friend sure she's going to get Uncle Sugar to pay her $700 a month prescription bills? I looked up the Bronze Plan (which I assume she's in) benefits, and she may be in for a surprise.
http://www.healthpocket.com/individual-health-insurance/bronze-health-plans#.UsRDcPRDt8E
Elvis This will really chap your ass, she was quoted $90 per month for the HUMANA PLATINUM PLUS policy which boggles the mind as she was paying $600 per month in the pre- existing condition pool insurance plan before. She called the carrier direct and got a confirmation number but was told it had to be completed online in the Obamacare website. In her state it does not function at all. All I can figure is she was quoted with government subsidy because of her income level.
It doesn't really chap my ass. Yeah, her premium is $90, but can she come up with the annual deductible or the co-pay amount? That's the hidden gotcha with the so-called subsidized insurance premiums.
Sorry, but the insurance companies have been limited to using 20% of each dollar of premium for various expenses plus profit. The normal rate filing targets ~5% profit, which leaves 15% of premium for expenses such as:
General expenses like real estate, wages and salaries, actuarial analyses, etc.
Other Acquisition such as advertising and signup programs.
Commissions and brokerage fees.
Taxes, licenses, fees.
Profits and contingencies (generally ~5-8% for a short-tailed line like this depending on equity demands, given the forced volume increase, fair to assume most health insurance policies priced at 5%)
I've ignored defense and cost containment expenses as they are part of the loss cost and fall within the 80%. For a simple comparison, your auto insurance likely incorporates 25-30% of each dollar for expenses + profit with a similar profit target.
The health exchange helps insurers dramatically reduce other acquisition costs and commission and brokerage fees by loading those costs onto the government via the ACA website. So that helps make the 80% loss ratio reasonable since they now need fewer sales persons and, theoretically therefore, less staff to sign new enrollees up. So, for each policy, a smaller percentage of the premium is going to provide 'customer service' but each policy will have a larger premium due to the additional coverages under it. Given the vast overhaul to the system, the normal pricing approach is likely an exposure-based approach in conjunction with any data available for similar policy types, suggesting that many of the expenses are based on a fixed amount per policy, quite possibly limited to a certain maximum to maintain the 80% loss ratio (if you thought that was going to come out of profit.. yeah, that's not happening). That does not bode well for your customer service experience given the level of regulation being imposed in conjunction with the implied costs of different types of applications.
If I were a heartless bastard trying to maximize profits and was facing this market, my approach would be to apply a last-in, first-out (LIFO / stack) type of acceptance system prioritizing the website, then call-ins, then mail-ins because of this. Depending on volume, many offices may be forced into an approach like this since it's far easier to pull the top application than it is to pull the bottom application and there's some probability that the bottom application has given up on the wait and re-applied anyways, which adds to the backlog problem.
The people who are busting their ass to get coverage are the people who absolutely need it and who will cost far more than they'll pay in premiums. The people who randomly attempt to get insurance but don't force the issue are going to be those people who would like to have insurance but aren't in a mad rush to get it. If it goes through, yay, if not, maybe try again in a few weeks even if the coverage starts later. Those are the customers you want, so a LIFO will create a higher probability of landing those customers than a traditional FIFO queue.
So, finally in short, it's unlikely that the paper applications are being handled particularly well as the insurance company likely has a small staff handling them given the lag time in receiving them, the expectation that such a policy would likely be an under-performing policy, and (without realizing that there's a check attached) the chance that this policy has already applied again to you or to someone else and is now non-starter.
I find it hard to believe that any living organism needs to take $700 of medications per month.
Depends on the regimen. If the right drug is prescribed, you can blow through $700 a week.
where i live, viagra is $22 a 'pop' and i take one a day - that's $660/month right there!
all kidding aside, the drug companys are in it for profit. and profit only. and the more you need the drug, the more they are going to charge.
mr. lot's of fun made a resolution to be nice to everybody this year. so here is a nice story, very nice, and also appropriate.
i have a friend whose uncle is an m.d. in south carolina. he ran a health clinic for poor people. he would prescribe even basics like antibiotics, but many of the patients wouldn't take them because they couldn't or wouldn't spend the money. so - he got himself certified as a pharmacist, which meant he could by at cost. my friend claims that at that price, the uncle then was able to dispense the stuff for free, that was how high the mark-up is via the storefronts.
take it for what it's worth, it's just a story. i believe it, especially if he was then able to buy and dispense generics.
You are overpaying for Viagra. Shop around.
Antibiotics have been cheap for a long time. Most are off patent, now. Poor/Medicaid will not even pay for generic Tylenol. They won't pay for anything. They will go to an emergency room to get free Tylenol rather than a doctor's office. I have personally seen a guy who refused to pay his $2 Medicaid copay saying he did not have the money, then buy $20 worth of scratch tickets at the convenience store.
If your uncle is really an MD then he knows these stories, too.
I will also say your uncle can be replaced by a PA for half price. What's he think about that?
It's a value thing. All generics started as branded meds.
Well, her deductibles even if covered might produce about the same result. She will not be alone.
For Obama... from the heart:
"I despise your masquerade...
the dishonest way you pose yourself...
yourself and your whole fuckin' family."
hey, that's a big fucking family dude! there's the kenya obama's, the indonesian suharto's and the american cia chapman's. and that's what i know about. probably some shit in hawaii also. and the mooch. and reggie.
Last night while leaving the folks after NYE dinner, I noticed one of the neighbor's cars that had an "I love ObamaCare" bumper sticker next to some other Pro Obama adhesive shite statist propaganda. Fighting back the urge to key the vehicle with my largest key, I thought that I actually love Obamacare. It's going to make elections hammerfuck the Democrats! And then I lamented that Diebold does the voting and the fascist march will continue unabated. Yep, we are fucked. I am lucky that my wife is an NP so I get great care, but the law will eventually fuck us over I'm sure cuz we actually work and do our patriotic duty by supporting lazy FSA takers. This slow motion train wreck called America is really starting to piss me off
You still believe in the left/right political paradigm?
It's a Barnum and Bailey shit-show when they are in front of the camera... best pals off camera.
Two heads on one body. It's all make believe. You/we have NO CHOICE.
I think you should read my comment again. Notice the part about Diebold then get back to me.
No, I think the objection raised was to your assumption that, absent Diebold, there would be an actual alternative available on the ballot. By the time the ink is dry on the ballot, the Diebold factor is pretty much academic.
Are there two competeing political factions in this country with multiple subsets? Yes. You primarily have left and right political beliefs or "liberal" and "conservative" sides. This is seen in the Democrats and the Republicans which are the two major parties in this country. Hence, you have the illusion of two choices. My comment simply brought forth the fact that our voting and choices are basically being stolen and we have the choices made for us by those in power. My apologies for not raisng the fact of voter fraud, dead voters suddenly voting again, black panthers "protecting" polling stations, the IRS completely screwing with political action on a certain side, some districts having over 100% voter turnout and the entire constituency voting for a single party. I was a politcal science major so I may speak as if there are actual reasons to vote, but trust me, I know my vote means nothing and the whole fucking thing is a chirade. Please excuse me for the confusion. If there is anything I have learned in my time on ZH, it's that voting does nothing. Hopefully this spells my sentiments out in no uncertain terms.
I think I understand you. I would suggest that in the larger sense, every politician who gets on the ballot is fundamentally a neo-liberal. The various applications of fraud merely advantage one neo-liberal faction at the expense of the other. They make much of their differences for partisan political advantage, but over the past 30 years, I'd say it's impossible to tell at any given moment which faction is in charge.
They are basically the same once in office...then the lobbyists take control.
well then vote for the other guy, whoever he/she may be... just replace every fucked-up politican every term!
If only....
I happen to be wearing this t-shirt right now.
http://6dollarshirts.com/product.php?productid=12137
The exact shirt seems to no longer be available, but there are plenty similar.
Yeah, Left-Right does matter and does exist. However, you need to try and discern the wolves in sheeps' clothing. Ideology is everything.
I do agree there is a power structure that supercedes the apparent left-right labels, though.
Not as long as voter fraud goes unchecked like the last election.
Still haven't heard those who oppose AHC come up with a better idea - the only idea I hear is scrap it for something that failed for most people for years now - don't have a better idea just criticize -
You are not looking , there are loads of alternative plans,always have been.Not getting
time on MSM uptil now .
The whole system needs scraping,
Health insurance and corporate provided health cover were created by disastrous FDR policies.
Its one abortion created on another Govt. created abortion,
Govt. State and Federal needs to get the hell out of the health biz.Only then can a sustainable
system emerge.Everything else is just fiddling while Rome burns.
Boris is health care proposal, call "Don't screw with Citizenry" Healthcare Act. Sort of Free Market approach and not is Jam Down Throat fiat approach of dictator. Maybe is work?
... but what is Boris know? Boris still is go to cousin Yuri for "home dentistry" and must have wife scrape "rear mounted" quasi nipple?
How's this for an idea, you leechfucks and your corrupt gov stay out of my pocket.
How do you propose The Elites harvest their livestock?
Either extend Medicare to those age 55 and above or consider the Japanese model of government - private partnership that seems to work well. My practice will be opting out of those plans that will pay too little for Obamacare enrollees to be economically feasible. In turn, our great government will force physicians who accept Medicare to participate in Obamacare thereby insuring coverage for votes. Then I will go to cash only in my medical practice and supplement my income with a chain of Dunkin Donut like stores that will also serve samosas, chaat and authentic though commercialized chai. Happy New Year good sirs!
Indeed Doc, I do thnk that primary care docs anyways can moce to a cash only premise. $100 / visit for a physical or a script for flu or something like that.
Hell if one can negotiate a cash only for operations with a hosptal that would bring prices down considerably.
Agreed. I've suggested to primary care docs (PMD) a concierge model where you are charged $2000 a year for access. This includes unlimited e mail and text contact and say 1 visit a month. Any more care would require more $ but would be reasonable, say $75 to $125 a visit based on complexity of your problem. Lab work, diagnostics have to be covered in other ways but most are actually quite cheap and when a Health Savings Plan is used can be doable. HSA plans allow portability of your $ and carry over year to year. A PMD with only 500 lives (most currently have to have 1000-1250 lives to have a decent income) would have revenue of $1 million. If overhead to run the practice is 50%, he could net $500,000, which is unheard of for an average PMD. There would be less burnt out docs, better care for all and more time per patient in the exam room. There could be different tiers of plans. A healthy 25 year old may only need a $500 per year plan that only allows 2 covered visits for example. I think we could do much better in this country if we get the government a respectable distance away from the citizens.
it would appear to me, and i'm just speculating, but, if people paid cash for the basics, to doctors, basic health care prices would drop a lot.
what has happened is that the insurance carriers are 'for profit' organizations. and, since they need to make a profit, they inserted themselves inbetween health care givers and people.
my dentist sure gives me a better price when i pay cash for a crown, then what he HAS to charge via the insurance. my doctor was great, when i was unemployed, i paid cash, he cut the price 50%, everybody was happy. except the insurance company, who did not get their cut.
making a profit off of both people sick and suffering and medical professionals attempting to help them is really horrible. it really is. that relationship is known as 'parasitic'.
hey warren - you reading this you fcking scumbag.
Warren is taking long bubble bath, contemplate next corporate takeover and self enrichment. Please to leave message at R C Willey, GEICO, Wells Fargo, BAML, or Coca-Cola. Warren Secretary is too busy pay more tax than is Warren.
Here is the bigger issue to me, Dr. Sahab. In a free society we negotiate as free citizens and we reach accomodation. You try one thing, another practice tries something different. The market tells us which ideas are better and we continuously adapt...in a free market. All prices including your medical school eventually adapt.
I have talked to doctors who could take a small fraction of the official office prices if they did not have to hire so many admin staff...or maybe spend huge sums on EMR, liabitlity and similar things.
As a side note, does anyone not think it is significant that in a 2000 page bill and roughly 15000 pages of ancillary regulations there is not one paragraph on...tort reform?
You aren't going to either. They like it fucked up the other way.
Health Savings plan is one alternative, Medicaid buy in is another...these are just off the top of my head. I'm sure we could do better and there are plans that can and will. May you be dropped and have a huge premium levied afterwards.
"the only idea I hear is scrap it for something that failed for most people for years now"
Reeeeeely? Seems the body count should be a lot higher then.
Here's a better healthcare system I worked up in my own tiny little brain. The bill would be less than 10 pages long:
1) Kids under age 10 get all healthcare for free
2) Every legal resident gets catastrophic coverage that covers a specific list of medical conditions. Prescriptions to treat these conditions are also free.
3) Everyone gets routine/preventative medical services (annual check-up, vaccinations, sinus infections, etc.) for free.
4) For everything else, people either pay cash or buy private health insurance
5) A 5-10% tax on prescription drugs pays for (1) - (3)
6) No major surgeries are covered for people over the age of 85. Beyond that age, only hospice care is covered.
Sounds good and logical but who is going to tell/make 350 pound Bertha or hairweave obamaphone LaQuita that they are actually responsible for themselves (see #4)? They refuse to feed or house themselves without assistance. The FSA has won....until the system crashes.
Here's the solution: get the state out of health care COMPLETELY. End medical licensing and the AMA cartel, end the "prescription" drug system and allow all drugs to be sold "over-the-counter", take down all barriers to entry so that various levels of medical services arise on the market. That way there will be health care providers for every income level and ability to pay, and return to a "fee for service" model. It's as simple as that. Allow the market to work. Every other option will inevitably end in a clusterfuck, because as soon as one regulation is imposed, another one will be needed to correct the distortions created by the first.
The "health-care" (it should be medical care, your health is something you take care of yourself, you see a doctor for medical advice) system is broken because of the initial government interference all those years ago by FDR and the distortions created by payroll restrictions during WWII. This forced employers to start offering medical coverage as a substitute for higher pay, and began the whole third-party payer system that we are still suffering under today. Until people are once again paying for medical advice (not "health care") out of their own pockets on a fee for service basis we will have these problems.
In a free market system there will be everything from charity hospitals for the indigent, to RNs and others with some medical knowledge running home-based businesses for the working poor, to medical clinics similar to what you see today (but without the layers of paperwork and bullshit) for the middle class, to high-dollar doctors with Harvard degrees for those who can afford it. That's the way it works in capitalism, something for everyone. Socialists don't like it because its not "equal", but the universe isn't equal, so any attempt to make things equal is doomed to fail.
And we need to fix the food system. No GMO, no more Round-up sprayed crops, no HFCS, and the end of high calorie/no nutrient food everywhere. People are swimming in a food supply full of poison, and everyone is getting rich on both sides.
Let's start by doing the opposite of what George Soros wants.
gov gets involved with housing.....what happens to prices?
gov gets involved in student loans....what happens to prices?
gov gets involved in medical care.....what happens to prices?
gov declares war on poverty.....what happens to poverty?
Do you get it? Ever have a class on logic? That would tell you the answer.
Never mind.....you probably went to public school.
You are forgiven.
Dear Jet813,
I read ZH for (often thoughtful) viewpoints similar to and different from mine. Prior to this post, I have never felt compelled to crucify someone for their viewpoint, as I believe doing so adds nothing to the communal understanding of issues and makes the crucifier come across as a reactionary simpleton. But I just cannot hold the demons back...
</BeginRant>
You have to be dumbest fucking fuck that has ever cobbled together a semi-coherent thought about the ACA of 2010. Knowing only your one comment, I nevertheless believe you to be a non-thinking regurgitator of others' ideas. Your very existence and the existence of your kindred spirits grate at me. You are the reason issue awareness tests should be mandatory for gaining eligibility to vote.
An answer to your query is exceptionally simple even in my present hungover New Year's state: the status quo was infinitely better the 2,400 page legislative diarrhea Congress spewed out of its anus and the community organizer from Chicago signed into the Federal Register. When vets and Medicare beneficiaries are factored out of the equation (since they're mostly set as far as health coverage goes), the vast majority of Americans have been and for the present continue to be covered by employer-provided plans.
These plans haven't always been perfect, and boundary case outliers have made terrific ink for media outlets. Stories about good, decent, god-fearing mothers dying of cancer and getting dropped by their insurance providers at the 11th hour make sensational, revenue generating headlines. But such cases have indeed been outliers. Now a system - despite its imperfections - that has worked for the majority of the population for decades is slowly but surely metastasizing into something resembling the system in Canada or the United Kingdom.
When healthcare system opinion polls are administered in Canada or the UK, outcomes often are that the populations are happy with their socialized systems. Why? Surely this proves America's system inferior to the socialized systems, right? Scratch beneath the headlines and you'll discover that respondents typically frame their answers vis-a-vis the aforementioned sensationalist headlines about outlier cases emanating from the U.S. No one wants to lose coverage because of a lifetime cap at the 11th hour and incur bankruptcy, so yeah, the socialized systems are the way to go. Frame the questions with statistical background information (e.g., most covered people end up just fine, thank you very much), and you likely get vastly different results.
Canadians and Brits hate the poor access they have. Shocker, right? They're covered but unless they bribe their healthcare providers and / or pop for private insurance (illegal in Canada), they have to wait months for diagnosis and treatment. Here's a quick LA Times article if you don't believe me:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/27/nation/na-healthcare-canada27
Repeat after me you dumb fucking fuck: COVERAGE DOES NOT EQUAL ACCESS. Never mind access to quality care..
</EndRant>
Nice rant! I work in a part of healthcare, as well.
I am always interested when you poll people on something they do not have. If you ask a person who has only every owned Honda cars whether they are better than Audi's what are you likely to get? At best they have read about Audi's and maybe they read opinions of Audi's written by fans of Hondas. The analogy breaks down, but I am sure the point is made.
In a free system we are always adapting. I like to ask the interventionalist leftistst:
1. Who invented the modern doctor, government or free people/markets?
2. Who invented hospitals, government or free people/markets?
3. Who invented insurance?
4. Who invented the MRI's, meds, labs, lab equipement and so on?
The point is that most leftists if not most people do not think healthcare would exist without government. Everything government knows it learns from the free market. Physician certification came about after universities instituted it themselves. Medicare/Caid copy the essential payment processes that already existed.
Freedom experiments, learns and advances. Government and regulation can only look backwards.
What exactly has failed "most" people for "years?"
Please elaborate?
I'm anxious to see how these new ACA health care taxes, postal rate increases, increased property taxes, new tool roads everywhere, and so on...how they boost the economy. My gut feeling is the average Joe is going to feel moar pain.
Loki Me too, this will really be the giant turd to swallow. Every thing will be declared a medical device, even toothbrushes and dental floss in order to tax the hell out of the population. I read that there will be a Obamacare tax on rental property income , and to top the cake there is tax on the actual premiums for your healthcare plan. This is a fucking nightmare.
It looks to be 3.8% on anything over your target income level.
FED just prints more, when we are low on dough.
Nihilist! What you are saying is preposterous! Are you saying that a system that comes with 16,000 new IRS agents and no doctors is not about about healthcare??? Impossible.
Do you think those IRS agents will at least get stethoscopes?
Records will be set every month going forward for the number of ER visits...
And hospitals will either shut down their ER rooms entirely or send uninsured ER patients to other hospitals. Both of these things are already happening.
My wife takes care of bills. All I know is we got our health insureance cancelled pout of the blue. Now we have to pay more and with a higher deductible. So president Obama, fuck you very much.
No no no.
You don't have to pay more - you choose to.
Say 'Fuck it' and don't pay anything. Man up.
ACA reports under the Tyler Durden mask = lol. Must be afraid the "death panel" is going to get him/her.
People are already suffering (and some will die) because of the technocratic hacks who formed ObamaCare and now their Gestapo (IRS) is going after those who speak out.
Here:
"The IRS audit of the adult, Bill Elliott, could be pure coincidence. Elliott was a guest on Fox News Channel’s “The Kelly File” earlier this month (video below) and said he was told by his insurer that his cancer was considered “beyond a catastrophic pre-existing condition” and that his plan was being canceled because of new regulations.
http://libertyunyielding.com/2013/11/30/three-cancer-patients-2-of-them-children-lose-coverage-because-of-obamacare/
Is that "death panelish" enough for you?
nmewn +100 Why can't people see that side of Obamacare?
I'll tell you why they fucking can't see it, they are ideologues. I spent Xmas with 3 adult (50-60yo) siblings & their significant others along with my dad. We (me against all of them) almost went to fisticuffs over Obamacare. They couldn't be happier about it. No point about the cost, penalties, actual care, etc., was accepted by this group. Just plain ole ordinary toeing the "we love Obama" line about how it is a better system with no facts being necessary to back it up with. Just plain fucking crazy. I swear it borders on mind control, never seen anything like it.
Washington DC math:
4-5 million policy cancellations....a blip, insignificant, drop in the bucket
1 million "enrollees".....wonderful, historic, wow this thing really works.
And we wonder why we're 17 trillion in the hole....
I stopped reading at, "Fox News".
You can always count on "progressives" to keep an open mind can't you? ;-)
sez the winger.
I read multiple news sources, even obvious shill feeds like HuffPo.
And oddly enough, I can still bring myself to comment on the content of an article of interest, instead of just the color its presented in, unlike you. If you keep responding you will be forced to do the same.
Or you can tap out now ;-)
People who find their way through this maze ought to be given honorary degrees in Quantum Mechanics. There is interferrence (healthcare money) until you try to measure (use) it, when the interferrence pattern (money) disappears. It's exciting as this might mean another Nobel for Obummer who has made the heady world of modern physics comprehensible to the masses.
Quantum mechanics is basically an honest attempt to solve a problem.
Is the point here that most Americans don't understand how private health insurance works? I would believe that. When I was an employee, I found I was usually the only person who realized that our employer was paying more toward the premium costs than we were. And I was usually the only one who bothered to figure out how the deductibles, coinsurance, and out-of-pocket maximums worked. People were generally stunned and disbelieving when I told them how much it really cost. The cost of health insurance, caught in a vicious feedback loop with the underlying cost of health care, has been out of control since I first got employer-provided health insurance in the late '80s.
Since 2004 I've been self-employed, and buying my own individual coverage. The only difference ObamaCare causes is the sliding scale of tax credits applied to premiums, along with the imposition of standards of coverage. I live in Minnesota which has always had high standards for policies, and therefore high premiums, so the only difference I can see is that now you have to buy chemical dependency coverage. Most of the consternation I've heard of is coming from people who either never knew what private insurance really costs, or had policies that didn't really cover anything and never knew because they'd never had a major health problem.
The problems with ObamaCare are fundamentally the exact same problems we've had all along with private health insurance (which isn't really insurance but actually a pre-paid health payment plan, but that's another rant). The only complications that are new involve the tax credit subsidies, and that's only complicated because most people don't make enough money or have enough assets to make use of tax credits or file complex tax forms annually.
Now, it is true that insurance companies are using this transition as an opportunity to cancel all their less-profitable plans. ObamaCare has given them the cover they need to do what they were going to do anyway. ObamaCare is really only a temporizing strategy to subsidize the insurance and healthcare corporations and protect them against the fact that they have priced themselves out of the reach of their customers; individuals and employers. We're not going to really solve this problem until we deal with the costs themselves. Insurance coverage is not health care. We're not going to get health care costs down to where people can afford them until we deal with how we handle end-of-life care, lifestyle-caused disease, the epidemic of "diabesity," the perverse malnutrition where our poor people eat nothing but cheap carbs, fat and salt, etc.
I still think this finance-based system will collapse under its own weight, and the next Republican President after that collapse will open up Medicare to everyone, imposing strict price controls, and relegating private insurance companies to optional supplements which will allow those who can afford it to buy the quantity and quality of health care they're now accustomed to, leaving the rest of us with the equivalent of the VA.
"Insurance coverage is not health care."
Precisely. I pay $1,200 per month for health insurance for me and Mrs. Tippy. We also have homeowners' insurance (even though the house is paid for free and clear), automobile liability insurance, and $1M umbrella liability insurance (it's cheap if you already have regular homeowners' insurance).
The reason we have all this insurance is that we have assets and we don't want to lose them if something goes horribly wrong. When we were young and just starting out we had a whole lot less insurance - if something calamitous happened we'd have just declared bankruptcy and started over. We had no home or business or investments or savings to lose, and we couldn't possibly have afforded a lot of insurance anyway. Now we're too old to start over and we can't afford to lose what we've worked all our lives for. We need those assets to avoid poverty in our old age.
What incentive does a young, healthy person with zero assets have to enroll in Obamacare? They're supposed to kick in the bucks to cover all the old and chronically ill net takers. We'll see soon enough how that works out.
Exactly. Your experience is very similar to mine. And what's happening in helath "insurance" is the same thing that happens to homeowners' insurance after major storms force massive payouts; everyone in the pool has to pay more.
Healthcare will become like public transportation.
There many good buses we can ride for reasonable price, but most people buy cars and will pay 2x what the car costs.
Made up fiction. Check out Massachusetts, where RomneyCare has been operating for nearly a decade. How many actual end users of RomneyCare would go back to the old system? very few. How many medical doctors have left practice in Massachusetts because of RomneyCare? very few otherwise the halls of Mass Gen and Brigham and Womens would be nearly empty.
Ask the Faux News staff to put their talking heads and cam crews on a train to Masschusetts and interview both groups mentioned above. Faux News won't want to hear it.
Consider the US military budget vis a vis geography: the Soviet Union collapsed and China is not a problem. So what exactly is the US military budget getting spent on? Wast of money. Close the Pentagon, put it in the Middle East. Put everyone on minimum wage. Delist all defense stocks from all stock exchanges world wide, especially Wall Street.
Close Wall Street. The US no longer needs it. Ban banks and institute public banks like the Pulbic Bank of North Dakota or else have credit unions only. If Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein want to "rule," limit them to New York State only.
Try getting an appointment to see a specialist in Mass. See how long you wait.
Go to any ER in Mass, see how long you wait for all the illegals to be processed before you under chairty care.
People can't afford the premiums, that's why they didn't have health care before, and it's why they will pay the penalty now.
First Boris must to make plane reservation. How much is flight to Mass assume connection in Hamburg?
Maybe is see specialist in Alaska to be much more cheap... Boris can see Alaska from apartment balcony and sometime is see voluptuous woman with fashion conscience eye wear.
Great, another apologist.
Serious question, Are the public takers of Massachusetts on Romney care ???
lol/ the 70 page Romneycare bill didnt affect those who were already insured, unlike the 2700 page monstrousity that Obama didnt bother to read.
People didnt lose their insurance, didnt cut Medicare, didnt have death panels, nor did it have racial quotas for med schools and residencies.
I just got a job in Mass. My 80% employer covered health plan still costs me $600 per month for a family of three. In Ohio a better plan cost me $400 a month.
That's Romneycare working?
The only thing you're right about is ending wall street.
adr, I'm in OH-IO, and I run benefits for employees. Your plan jumped a bunch in Ohio, you just don't know that it did. My entire crew got wacked by increases from 20-145%, and we were lucky.....
You are certain to be lucky! When Boris Mother-in-law suffer cardiac seizure, Boris must apply mouth-to-mouth. How do you say, is yuck!
Kissing mother-in-law is better than paying 150% more out of pocket.
Wrinkled tongue in mouth is cheaper than than money out of pocket...
Dead Door signs up for Borris-care: "it's chepaer and moar better than Keynsian Stimulus."
Couplet Please go to the nearest hospital in Mass and have brain surgery....yours seems to have stopped functioning.
Funny story, Boris is work to pour concrete for tall apartment block and cold steel rebar is fall from top story and is impale cranium of co-worker, and victim is survive. Boris is call to help and is grind section of rebar remove for fit in back of work truck. Okay, maybe is not so funny.
MSNBS talking points.... seriously? You're in the wrong blog Bucky.
"China is not a problem": say no more!
China is real big problem! More ad is display Asian "woman" with free web cam. More Boris is click ad "go away" button, more ad is appear. Is NSA taunt Boris!?
<-Central Planners failing to fill new ACA Ponzi coffers?
<- Central Planners failing to divide the United States under racism?
They better get to paying out of pocket as soon as possible, hitting that $10,000 deductible , before having insurance payout, is a bitch and January 1, 2015 is right around the corner and the $10,000 reset starts all over again !!!
Probability is that if you are healthy you will never hit your $10,000 deductible. so why not go cash all together and when shit hit join the ACA since there is no per-existing condition clause.
Can you get food if you go to the hospital with malnutrition?
I.V. drip and a cup of applesauce at the ER.
$2,000
“But I assume anyone who goes through the trouble of enrolling will go ahead and pay.”
I would assume that a lot of those people assumed that their medical coverage was going to be free, like their EBT cards and such.
In the best of times, OB Care would be veeerrry IFFY, In these times? LMFAO......
Before getting angry, check your eligibility for the Tax-Credit!
KFF.ORG/INTERACTIVE/SUBSIDY-CALCULATOR will give you an estimate of how much subsidy you qualify for.
The definition of Income is not clear. I've found that line 22 of your 2014 tax return is what s/b used.
Add in Soc-Security income that's not taxable. Many people don't have enough W2/1099 income, less than 15,800, to qualify. The Soc-Sec amount should get a lot of people into the 'qualified' range.
The odd part is references to 2014 Income. Gives folks over the 400% level time to plan their Income levels in advance?
http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/TD%209611.pdf has the Final published regs on the tax credit.
Search for:
3. Computing the Premium Tax Credit
Starting in 2014, individuals and families can take a new premium tax credit to help them afford health insurance coverage purchased through an Affordable Insurance Exchange. The premium tax credit is refundable so taxpayers who have little or no income tax liability can still benefit. The credit also can be paid in advance to a taxpayer’s insurance company to help cover the cost of premiums. On May 18, 2012, the Department of the Treasury and the IRS issued final regulations which provide guidance for individuals who enroll in qualified health plans through Exchanges and claim the premium tax credit, and for Exchanges that make qualified health plans available to individuals and employers. On Jan. 30, 2013, the Department of the Treasury and IRS released final regulations on the premium tax credit affordability test for related individuals.
Sky Yes but, that tax credit is not a freebie. That tax credit shows up in the following taxable year as a tax liability to be paid back to the gubbermint . If you are in medicaid pool, which vast majority will be, said credits will carry over to your estate at the end of your life and heirs may find that your house belongs to uncle sam. Also, medical payouts for care under medicaid will acrue over lifetime which also gives uncle sam the right to your estate.
Interesting! Could you point me towards more detailed info?
Thanks.
SKY No problem, go to Paul Craig Roberts site (paulcraigroberts.com) click top toolbar under articles. Second page look for article- Obamacare: The Deception dated 02/03/2013. Then look under sub- paragraph title- Payback of tax credit. Paul Craig Roberts was the economist in the Reagan WH, you will find this article very interesting. Have read so many articles about Zerocare I can't remember where each one was located.
Thank you very much.
I thought that the subsidy only turned into a future tax liability if you underestimated your next year's income, and got too much of a subsidy as a result.
Let's say you fill out the form and guess: "I expect to earn X in 2015". And you get a big subsidy as a result. But then you actually earn X+20k. So, you have to pay back some or all of the subsidy that you got: http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-credits-could-trigger-surprise-tax-bills... It seems that the amount that you have to pay back is capped; perhaps you could get away with legally only paying some of it back.
Re medicaid claw-backs - they seem to vary state to state. Some states only claw back nursing home costs from the estates of over-55s; some seem to be looking at clawing back any medicaid expenditures on over-55s (so your wonderful "free" medicaid treatment is just a loan which your estate ultimately pays); who knows how each state will pan out; it's a work in progress. Ultimately they will need a lot of money and grab a lot, I'm sure. Some people are lying about their income and overestimating it so that they don't get dumped on Medicaid, so that they can buy an Obamacare policy that costs them somethiing now, and still be able to leave their house to their kids.
And that's the worst part longterm that they dont want you to know....but hey who in tbe USA cares about anything longterm
Pushing bullshit tax credits for others to pay for. Nice. Do you have anything else of value to say except the progressive propaganda line?
Didn't Obama promise to only tax the rich?
I haven't worked in 4 years and the insurance premiums were killing me.
If my job had not been offshored, I'd still be working and would not qualify for the tax credit.
It would be nice if we (the taxpayers) got some of the money going to Bank bailouts!
Since QE is being reduced by 10 billion a month, They could do full tax credits for 8.333 MILLION people.
That could help GDP more than the banks are!
Yeah, Obster cried you wouldn't pay one thin dime more in taxes. You could keep your health plan, your doctor, your hospital as well.
Best to go on welfare, EBT, Medicaid, ObamaPhone, ObamaPuter for you, although that would make you welfare scum.
BTW: You haven't worked in 4 years, therefore you do not exist according to the Federal Government.
BTW: If you aren't working, how is it that you call yourself a taxpayer? You may have been one, and sales taxes don't count: even illegals pay sales tax (except at the Arab owned shops in ur area).
I am morally certain that there are boiler-rooms full of drones getting paid (taxpayer money) by the post to shill Obama Care in blog comments, and forums, right now. I sure hope you are not one of them; though you sound as if you could be.
Bailout where corporate or personal are wrong. Try walmart, I heard they need help. 4 years get off your ass
You sound pretty excited to get yourself and others signed up for this fabulous government program. Good luck.
Yeah, and the applesauce is watered down, the good stuff pushs the cost up to $3,000....
Health care insurance costs will be more expensive than necessary until there is true competition in the insurance industry. Barriers to entry in the insurance industry need to be lowered/done away with. And...
Way too much time and energy is wasted in the health care industry mitigating non existent risks. The real risks come from the threat of lawsuits and the outrageous "pain and suffering" awards(and settlements). I used to spend upwards of 1/3 of my time doing useless tests and documentation...all of which had ZERO impact on providing better care.
Somebody gets a tax credit - but it comes out of someone else's pocket in one way or another.
TANSTAAFL TANSTAAFL TANSTAAFL......Well I keep saying the government is missing a big pool of potential revenue to help fund Obamacare and it would be a good move for consumers to license and excise tax the data sellers and you wouldn't find one consumer complain about that at all. When you have big corporations like Walgreens making about a billion a year on just selling data, well that tells you how the big the pool of revenue would be to tax. We all want some kind of privacy regulation and so far any bill or law out there neglects one important issue, "an index" which would be requiring ALL data sellers to buy a license and then of course there would be fines, etc. as well as the requirement to maintain a listing on a federal site as t what kind of data they sell and to who. When you look at banks, they have 30 years worth of data available on most of use, depending upon your age of course. Insurers make big money selling data and they buy a lot of it too and re query it and resell you again. It's taxing an intangible and this is where lawmakers have a hard time understanding it, but the banks and corporations doing it, have no problem at all created the math models and algorithms and once set up the data flows and money rolls in. The process is getting more flawed all the time and here's one of my stories to where a mismatch was done with my car insurance and months after I had sold my house, my car insurance company algorithms added the new owners as 2nd drivers to my policy and I have not had any second drivers in over 20 years on my policy:) It was one of my Attack of the Killer Algorithms post.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2012/10/insurance-company-data-mining-wit...
Without an index aka a license you can't identify the players as it could be a bank, a device company, and insurance company, a credit agency, a data broker and so on. Many of these entities too also have overseas tax havens, so when you have that going on, come with a new angle and do something that benefits consumers at the same time. It's a run away train. Anyway the ACA could do with the money as they see fit and why not hit up the banks and corporations attacking us as they have the best deal in town going with a free labor force to fix the errors as we as consumers get stuck with no access of some sort when there are errors, or we get bigger bills. Anyway, this is just my little campaign to kill two birds with one stone and throw some more money into the till and again I don't any consumer would complain here one bit as it would be a good move for privacy and put some restraints on the data sellers out there and would even help the old HIPAA laws along too. Remember they are in here too with the data. I suggested it to both Rockefeller and Warren a few times. Remember too that some of these same sources that make money selling data are also some of the same sources used to determine eligibility so errors and bad data come full circle.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/12/senator-rockefeller-puts-data-sel...
medicalquack
please, anyone out there---if you or a loved one need a take home chemo fanny pack---do not go with walgreens! obviously they have arranged some sort of deal with chemo centres, but their service is deplorable. the fanny pack beeps all night, completely interrupting the patient's sleep. walgreens claims to have 24/7 toll free service if anything goes wrong, but when you call you reach an offshore telephone rep telling you to call back during regular business hours. i have no idea what they charge the health provider but walgreens is the worst. we went for another chemo fanny pack provider after the deplorable walgreens experience (the patient vomited for 12 straight hours and the nurse refused to come to assist) and the experience has been like night and day. walgreens is beyond wretched. do not opt for it. most people facing chemo and facing taking home the fanny pack are so overwhelmed not to really question---but do question.
but but but I thought it was free!
hehehe...
How 'bout if you got an O'Bama phone? That should qualify you for "free" healthcare, right?
It may be very inexpensive, See my note below at 11:40
Why haven't the Tylers mentioned it?
I hope I'm not wrong with my posting!
It's free, swipe yo' EBT!
The youngins are critical to this plan working. No youngins=failure with a mathematical certainty.
The youngins got fired up.....voted for their messiah and his healthcare plan.....cried with victory.....and apparently bailed when they got the bill.
Let's hope those "ho & bro" insurance ads work!
All of your incandescent light bulbs are illegal as of today, Bitchez. It's only a matter of time until the Lightbulb Cops begin their door kicking campaign to check for compliance. I'm not sure what the other 39,000 new laws are or how many of them are actually under the umbrella of Obamacare.....
They are not illegal. They just can't make any more of them. The last thing made in the USA.
Semantics......
Watch out for the A.T.F.L.B.
CFLs are shit that have poor light, dim over time take, time to brighten an are only effiicent if you leave them on for an extended period of time. so dont turn those lights off!
LED lights are more energy efficient, have a nicer light spectrum, and don't have that nasty refresh rate that CFLs do
I certainly agree that LEDs are better than clf
And are the future, but there are two drawbacks. When you dim them they just produce less light , not the warm light of an incandescent ( minor issue).
The other is the cost. I have about 50 recessed floods in my house. At $18 a pop that's 1k . Sorry I like them but theyre not worth it.
Also many lights in my house are used intermittently or minimally. Ie closet lights -maybe two minutes a day or bathroom - maybe 30 minutes. Those numbers make cfls die quickly and become inefficient and would make me have to live 500 years to gain any savings on the LEDs.
I have been replacing 2' x 4' drop in fluorescent light fixtures with LED fixtures. They have the same acrylic lense, give similiar but whiter light, are dimmable and use 1/4 the electricity. They were 20% more to buy but I will never have to change a fucking ballast again!
I got my lifetime supply of 100w, 75w and 60w before they went away. Just my little way of telling govvie to go screw itself.
I did too. Soon they will outlaw the use of the energy grid in an effort to usher in the age of Green Energy. Don't worry though because just like Obamacare it will definitely be affordable. I mean why would they call something affordable if it really wasn't right........??
Me three. Got the angry eyebrows from the Missus, but she got the message when I told her they're gone as of 1 Jan. SCREW THE FUCKING NANNY STATE FUCKTARDS, GODDAMN IT.
They are not illegal. They just need Tungsten.
The A19 Halogen bulbs are OK. They don't have any mercury like the old bulbs, and they are 10% to 20% more efficient.
I don't /won't use the CFLs or LEDs for a long long long time. Maybe one day the LEDs will be like daylight...but until then its the A19 Halogen bulbs for me...more expensive but very similar to the old incandescent.
Ah, the smell of a Black Market........
Is it unreasonable to assume that a large number of enrollees (what is an enrollee - someone who added something to their shopping cart?) thought, and will be shown to be correct, that this insurance would be no cost to them?
Which, is probably exactly what the administration wanted, and what you want to bet nobody gets denied care or treatment and ya'll wind up paying for it?
I HAVE AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR 2014:
FUCK YOU SOCIALIST CRONIES! YOU ARE EVEN WORSE THAN REAL SOCIALISTS!
It is all bullshit. The ponzi collapses when people don't signup. Real change in D.C. would come from a straight income tax revolt. Get 50-100 million not paying taxes. The IRS and D.C. couldn't handle it. We don't need them.
Cut my tax rate in half this past year with more creative accounting, so I'm doing my part. How about everyone else?
I've found that since I quit buying crap I don't need, and grow/raise a fair amount of my own food, I don't need to work a lot. Less money for Uncle Scam, more time for me!
Also, the "due date" on my property taxes is Jan. 31. I like to make them wait a few months before I send it in.
Oh gosh, I missed the deadline.
I didn't sign up for TeleNegroCare, and I'm not payng the tax. I refuse to comply.
Republicans will make obamacare their "top issue" for 2014??? LOL That's a fucking laugh riot there, isn't it? Everyone needs to face it that the majority of "Republicans" aren't against anything obama has done since he took office. Whether they say so or not, most all of them are still for big government and more authority over our lives.
This whole right vs. left bullshit is so old...all they're doing is playing WWE wrestling against the sheeple. Good cop/Bad cop...and it's hard to say anymore which is which. They're all corrupt and behind the scenes they're all buddies, just like in WWE wrestling. They're partying together, hangin' out, playing golf, scheming against the American people on what the script will be for the next fake public fight to keep the masses angry, confused, and divided...getting us to fight against each other instead of these criminals while they continue to grow in power over us.
There are very few in office right now who aren't part of the "club", and they have been getting ripped apart by the members of both "sides" of this false paradigm from the start. Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Lt. Col. Allen West, Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, to name a few on a very short list, are hated by BOTH "sides" equally because they aren't part of the "club" and won't play ball with these criminal scumbags.
That's why the people will continue to lose as long as this government is allowed to continue as is...which it will until a massive breaking point occurs and We The People exorcise our rights against this evil leviathan.
This still applies today!
The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
You know Tuesday is Republican Blow Barry Day, didn't you?
They line up starting at 0600.
When Backdoor Barry gets tired, Reggie sometimes steps in.
Lindsey Graham is always breaking into line.
do what the military did on 9 11
stand down
thats it stand down
do not enter into a contract with these rapist freaks.
you are common men.
take control of your body and your health.
stop taking the pharma that is turning you all into girlies.
DO NOT ENGAGE do not reply
Hey, these zipperheads have not thought this through.
As Mr Celente says, "When people have nothing to lose, they lose it."
When millions of real people are dying for lack of healthcare, what do they care if they take a few politicians with them?
This might get very interesting.
An asset-forfeiture scheme disguised as a free health-care plan.
The new taxes, which cost more than $675 billion over the next decade, include:
you got all that right Yogi! And the founders abolished rule under the King for a stamp tax. Americans are so dumbed down and apathetic now that they'll put up with anything. They'll even fall for taxing the air we exhale and water vapor!!! I don't know which is more disgusting...the criminals who come up with this bullshit or the userful idiot sheep who go along with it.
I could give a fuck if all bio...health care...hospitals...doctors....pill makers...device makers all go out of business....they deserve it since they have been gouging us for 20 - 30 years
Fuck them