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Wednesday Humor: Iran Has "Incontrovertible Proof" That US Is Run By Aliens
While some will not be surprised, Al Arabiya reports that Iran's FARS News Agency claimed in a recent report that:
"The United States' domestic and international policy has been driven by an 'alien/extraterrestrial intelligence agenda' since 1945."
The "incontrovertible proof" supporting the revelations was (apparently) found in a Federal Security Service (FSB) report, carried out by American computer specialist Edward Snowden - and is confirmed (somewhat amazingly) by former Canadian Defense Minister Paul Hellyer in the following interview.
Very impressive to see Sophie (the interviewer) keep a straight face - whether you believe the man or not...
As a gentle reminder, this chap was in charge of Canadian military in the 60s!
...
Snowden reportedly contacted the Guardian’s columnist Glenn Greenwald telling him, according to Fars, that there “were actually two governments in the United States, the one that was elected, and the other, secret regime, governing in the dark.”
The agency added that Snowden’s revelations were confirmed as “accurate” by former Canadian Defense Minister Paul Hellyer, during an appearance he made on Russia Today’s program SophieCo.
Hellyer said: “This information is top secret in a way that the governments aren't talking about it, but if you listen to whistleblowers and the people are had worked in the industry and who know what is going on, there is just a lot of information out there and it doesn't take very long to get your hands on it.”
He said 80 percent of UFO reports analyzed by the Canadian defense ministry during his time in office were not real, but “there were 15 or 20 percent for which there was no explanation and there genuinely unidentified flying objects.”
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lol...no, I'm using your method, always have been, this isn't my first rodeo with you people.
Its pretty simple really, you picked YOUR fight against the Christian God (so therefore you must have proof) while seeking to offend/confront ZH readership (as you already admitted).
So now, prove He doesn't exist.
Its going to require some belief & faith on your part isn't it? ;-)
Lol Nmewn
I've called you and everyone out on several occations.
Would be nice to pick and chose what comments to response to in the benefit of debate when you don't have solid ground to stand on.
Please go on, I've already admited several times I couldn't disprove your religion.
Now it's your turn. I want 'understanding' of your conviction. To better benefit my beliefs. Unless you are ignorant in your religion and can't?
Can I assume you believe in math and probabilities more than concepts and philosphy?
Good, I thought so.
What do you have to say about Roger Penroses calculation that the "Bing Bang" probability is on the order of...10^10^123 to 1? Thats a lot of "celluar accidents" (or lack thereof) working out juuuust right.
Wouldn't you say?
Couldn't tell ya Nmewn I'm not informed with what he had to say so any response I give wouldn't be valid.
But I do love concepts and philosphies.
"This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is the temple; the philosophy is kindness."
Or probably the most common qoute that's one of my favorites
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
I'm off to bed Nmewn was a pleasure discussing beliefs with you. Sure does beat the Mormons I live around. Till next time.
He didn't "say" anything. He "proved something"'...practically mathematically impossible.
But hey, between me and you..."May you be in heaven five minutes before the devil knows you're dead."
Sweet dreams ;-)
to be fair, the "big bang" theory is just modernization of Genesis. I find it mildly amusing, and somewhat scary, that people don't recognize it as an extension of Judaic belief foisted on to the world as a "scientific truth".
As others have said, all we know is that we don't know very much about our universe.
Man may be the creation of God but religion is the creation of man. Funny how God always looks like the people who worship him... and why does He need to have a penis... who's He fuckin'?
Bookmarked for later...I gotta go...
///////////
Where were we TC, yes...
"to be fair, the "big bang" theory is just modernization of Genesis. I find it mildly amusing, and somewhat scary, that people don't recognize it as an extension of Judaic belief foisted on to the world as a "scientific truth"."
Penrose's calcs meant a lot of things, not just "the big bang" that everything else had to flow from, from a blade of grass to air water...to us. He mathematically proved (to my satisfaction) it could not have happened that way.
"As others have said, all we know is that we don't know very much about our universe."
Very true...and what can not be explained by science (or math) can only be explained by...?
"Man may be the creation of God but religion is the creation of man."
Too true.
Yes, the statistical probability of your (and my) existance is near zero. The fact that you and I are here is proof that the probability is not zero. The problem with mathematical proof is that they are based on assumptions. Penrose may have created some beautiful formulas and intricate calculations about how it is statistically impossible (yet we are here) that humans would have evolved in this manner therefore we must have been created. What is the statistical probability of an omniscient, all powerful being appearing, evolving, creating itself or some other form of genesis? I would imagine if he ran that assumption through his model he'd come up with a similar number, therefore "proving" God did not exist... I have not read his work therefore I am speaking from a position of ignorance in that regard however, I don't think my reading his work would change my opinion on his assumptions.
Good chat, I love pondering this stuff.
A good story?
We cast our minds into the infinite unkown like fisherman into the sea, occasionally we hook something, reel it in and try to figure out what it is. We do this analysis through our shared knowledge structures and assumptions (we "know" x therefore this new item "fits" into y {like a puzzle, though our puzzle has a certain pattern and we really get bent out of shape when the new piece doesn't fit the old pattern}). As we collectively cast into said metaphorical sea we continue to gather new knowledge which reforms our structures and assumptions. An ontological evolution.
Anyway, off to work.
So, after botching the childbirth design, giving women raging hormones that vary every month, a plumbing system that is forever altered once you have the first kid (do NOT give me that Miracle of Birth crap - if you thought there was the remotest possibility you'd have to push a 6lb bowling ball out your JohnThomas over a 12 hour period you wouldn't be going on about the Miracle of Birth, you'd be gibbering on the floor in terror), plus every living entity in the world has to gnaw on another entity just to survive. After all all that, on day number seven, God stretched God's arms, said "that was excellent guys, lets take the day off," and YOU FIGURE GOD IS A WOMAN?
Stalks off ...
How did you get that I figured God is a woman...
Why, if God were singular... (insert holy trinity debate here... though all of the holy trinity were men [not sure about the holy spirit... whatever that is]) why does "He" need to have a sex organ?
Now, when one appraoches that question through the eyes of man creating religion it makes much more sense.
You would make a great philospher nmewn.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU PROVE SOMETHING DOESN'T EXIST. Oh my giddy aunt. You christians really aren't that much into critical thinking are you. You can't even see the inanity of your own comments, thoughts.
Let's try anyway.
Theist: Prove to me that an advanced alien who has created our universe inside a test tube doesn't exist.
Atheist: Um, if an advanced alien has created our universe then said alien must exist outside our universe which I don't have access to so I can't prove it.
Thesist: HAH, HA. I've trapped you. Now just replace advanced alien with god.
Atheist: Yeh, but what if it really is an advanced alien. Prove that it isn't.
Thesist: <Head explodes>
I found Asimov's "The Last Question" interesting in this respect - the idea that in the fullness of time, we (or what "we" became) created our "God" almost by accident, and this "God" only continued to exist until it was able to answer (by demonstration) this final question, after which our "God" no longer needed to exist, and so presumably did not exist.
Interesting viewpoint, and Asimov himself regarded this very short work as one of his best.
lol...because I did in fact, use the very same debate tactics as all those who come screaming from every corner of the world at the mere mention of the word God or the Christian religion, does not invalidate anything I said.
To me, its incumbent on the one making the accusation to provide their proof, not just make some kafkaesque smear and "have faith" that the smear "will be believed" and prance smugly away.
Like I said, its an eye for an eye from here on out , they'll just have to get used to it ;-)
No just question. If I offended then that's just how you conceived it.
Just what did nmewn "concieve"??? Yes you are definitely a child of the 90s....That is demonstrative.
Nmewn...Did you enjoy your act of "conceprtion"?
LTER..Yes. The debate has degenerated. I agree.
Me writeie no Anglish.
LMAO.
an eight armed chick...wait a minute, that could work
that's the thing about religons. Everyone has one. They just have different names for all their "belief systems."
Yeah and I'm up to my eyeballs with only one being constantly ridiculed.
I've yet to see any atheist disprove the existence of God, yet they sally forth at any given opportunity, with all the conviction of THEIR BELIEFS, only to spout nothing but their opinion and then retreat back behind their comfortable walls.
I'm more of an Old Testament kinda guy...an eye for an eye, I don't turn the other cheek.
Yes, I know that saying was bastardized too, probably by atheists.
Nmewn whether it's christianity or what have you it's all the same. There is only one god right? So it shouldn't matter what religion is attacked.
Or unless it does matter as you state? So there for by your personal feelings christianity must be the correct religion so you can explain to me why anyone who isn't christian is wrong and maybe you can 'convert' me to see things your way.
Or maybe I'm wrong and you're just grasping.
nmewn--you got your head handed to you. Milestones
By this guy?...lol...who can't differentiate between "that" and "those"...who readily admits the purpose of his post was to troll the ZH "commentariat" not realizing probably half are agnostic and could care less either way.
Sure.
What about you?...care to take a stand...one way or the other ;-)
Better luck next time nmewn.
See above...answer it...try to make it rational.
The downarrows belie your stupid statement you troll instigator.
It doesn't matter. EVERYONE finds out in the end.
shit! didn't mean to sound like hillary.
See post above. I didn't so much disprove gods existence but drew the logical conclusion that there is an infinite number of possibilities, none of which can be disproved. So where does that leave us. It leaves in the same place we've battled for ages, with christians somehow convinced that of all the infinite number of possibilities they have the POWER to know.
Atheists claim that the universe came from nothing so by definition this is one possibility, one option. Christians claim that something outside the universe created it and us and claim further that you can't prove this thing doesn;t exist. This immediately leads the christians to the conundrum but neither can anyone prove an infinite number of other possibilities don't exist. So your belief is fucked. You can't win. Your own argument undermines the very same argument. On;ly a christian is dumb enough to pull this off.
nmewn,
with regard to multi-armed and/or multi-headed beings, I'm ashamed to admit that I had never considered the perspective offered by Alan Moore.
As you avatar suggestsm you might be aware of Moore as the author of "V for Vendetta" among other works.
His speculation was on the dimensionality perspective. What if these are 4 or 5 or nth dimensional beings, whereas we are 3 dimensaional? Our experience of them is from a 3 dimensional perspective. Consider what you would look like to a 2 dimensional being (like a spider drawn on a piece of paper). As it lacks that 3rd dimension, your movements might (would) appear to it like a series of distorted animation cells appearing in succession. That could give riise to a perception of an "8-armed man".
It's of interest that such beings appear in eastern and western mythologies spanning millenia.
Moore's claimed interactions with Asmodean is also a good read and is tangential to the abive.
Interviews with him are available in video and in text. He's at first glance, bonkers, but I don't dismiss alternate perpectives lightly
Please. Michael Jackson had three immaculate conceptions. Today we also know the easiest way to send man across time and space is to send the human genome information at the speed of light to be biogenetically downloaded on the other end.
The Shroud of Turin is the most studied artifact on the planet and it still baffles the scientists because it not only confirms it is completely consistent with the historical Jesus, but the Shroud also has supernatural phenomenon associated with it. The forensic pollen, fabric, and diatomaceous evidence not only confirm the place and time of the historical record, but the time of year. It was a man early 30's, 5'11, approx 170 lbs, blood type AB+, tortured with Roman cattails, crown of thorns, legs unbroken (important), and speared in right abdomen while crucified. Romans usually broke the legs of victims so they died quicker, couldn't push up for gulps of air, but Jesus' legs were recorded unbroken by the Romans.
Also, the blood and fluid stains on the facial death cloth in Spain matches the face image and blood type of the Shroud perfectly and the provenance of the facial cloth is not disputed. Facial cloth was removed before the body was placed in the tomb, does not have the pixilated resurrection image. The original carbon dating was debunked by an unimpeachable source, namely the same guy who did the original, who confessed he had made an honest mistake in 2005 when he reexamined the sample cloth he used and found it was from repair work that was done after the 14th century fire.
The supernatural phenomenon associated with the Shroud is a 2010 consensus that the image was indeed created with a burst of energy, of unknown type, from inside the Shroud, with the resulting pixilated image. Only the type of energy burst is disputed, but even X-rays were not available. The image could only have been done by human hand with a sophisticated atomic laser which was only invented 20 years ago and still has no where near the capability. The undistorted image is impossible to acheive today by any method.
Secondly, the image remains the only 2 dimensional image in the entire world that contains 3 dimensional holographic information encoded within it. The life size 3-D image of Jesus can/has been recreated because of this unique property. The image on the cloth and vector of energy prove that what we call the resurrection was a physical event that left unique scientific evidence.
Not seeing much destruction?
It may not be as uncommon a 'suspicion' as you supposed to consider that some UFO/alien activity is evil. ZH creatures in particular are actually a pretty 'Liberal' in the correct usage sense, collection of beings.
ZH creatures in particular are actually a pretty 'Liberal' in the correct usage sense, collection of beings.
Then please call us Libertarians so that the uneducated are not confused.
I do not think that you are crazy. The western world is "ready and pre-programmed" for an "alien" or demonic encounter. Heck, more brits believe in aliens than God. Of course I think Satan is in control of all of this...for now. Think I am crazy? Explain all this evil in the world then to me.
Helluva: At the time a demon was an inexplicably powerful being; not necessarily a malevolent one.
Anyone interested in this subject should check out a documentary on netflix that shows the conections clearly.
Watch UFO Conspiracy Online | Netflix
if you are not even sure that there is a spiritual world that exists, i welcome you to read up on one of the greatest men in history and one helluvaengineer, Emanuel Swedenborg.
try "swedenborg" by gary lachman Swedenborg: An Introduction to His Life and Ideas: Gary Lachman: 9781585429387: Amazon.com: Books
This Christian thinks that's all a bunch of poppycock.
Jinn.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark nesr the Tannhauser Gate...All those moments will be lost in time - like tears...in rain...
My mother? I'll tell you 'bout my mother....
And... "The star that burns brightest, burns the fastest."
Burn on, my friend. BTW, Kirk is partial to holidays in the Virgo Cluster. ;-)
Big winter solstice fan myself. Seems many of my ancestors, from their many different religions, were fans too.
I realized that the truth I was running from was so small, but it was as big as the promise, the promise of a coming day.
@Tippoo: +10 for channeling Batty!
Both of those alien mofos were beaten with an ugly stick.
Jesus Fucking Christ.
This is a phony report created by our own government to discredit Edward Snowden. The more crap you add to a conspiracy, the easier it is to deny it.
Plain and fucking simple.
If you follow the source back you get to Sorcha Faal....notorious for disinformation.
'Snowden' is at the highest probability an op.
Indeed, "Where are all the Snowdens of yesteryear."
jesus fucking christ.
now that is an image to behold.
love this.
Well I've never believed that Nancy Pelosi, among others, shared the same DNA as most humans.
There is a shadow government, it is run by Luciferian Oligarchs who believe they are gods. They have no nation and are only loyal to their globalist cause, and depopulating the "useless eaters".
Here is an accurate description of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
This whole alien BS is used to discredit anybody who suggests the truth about our government. Aliens may exist, but until one comes up and licks me, I have to operate under the assumption they don't.
I hope everyone can wake up to this fact, because really it is our only hope
Truth. Though it appears high level Freemasonary, the Jesuits, and Jewish Kabbalists (as in Kaballah) are also playing a large part.
So it is the Luciferian league?
This whole Luciferian Oligarch BS is used to discredit anybody who suggests the truth about our government. Luciferian Oligarchs may exist, but until one comes up and licks me, I have to operate under the assumption they don't.
Hmmmmmm.
pods
Suprised to hear this from you pods, you're a pretty smart and well researched guy. There is mountain of evidence to back this up...
I have seen evidence of the occult and numerology, etc.
You know what? If they did not have the power of nation's purses by issuing the legal tender at interest they would be drunken louts in their big mansions worshiping whatever they might want.
My best evidence of our modern predicament does not have to go any further than Eustace Mullins, G. Edward Griffin, Charles Lindbergh, or Rep Louis Thomas McFadden. Toss in Devvy Kidd and others and I have all the proof I need.
We MIGHT be under the rule of a secret (Luciferian) cabal that Tragedy and Hope spoke of, the so called Round Table Groups. I assume we are.
But I really don't care of their ambitions. I care about how they achieve their power. Their power comes from issuing legal tender currency, bankrupting governments and then having them do their bidding.
Taking away this power of the purse would let this cabal wither on the vine so to speak. Today, credit money conjured up out of nothing means that they can actually counterfeit labor. That is about the most insane power ever granted to anyone.
I stopped digging once I realized where we are, and where we are going.
To quote Tommy Boy, I can get a good luck at a T bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.
What I have seen over the years is that this Luciferian League seems to come about when the light is shined on exactly who is predominate in the central banking field, and who is closest to this power. Invariably, this Luciferian League comes out when it is shown that Jews are way over represented in this area. So forgive me if I am a little sharp when the Luciferians and the Black Pope defense is espoused.
Fuck, we have to be careful of actually typing that word here on "Fight Club." Several members, Francis in particular, seem to not be around for speaking of that subject. He did not openly denigrate Jews from what I read of him, but he did seem to constantly bring up some unpopular facts.
(attributed to Voltaire)
I know I can run the Luciferians up and down from here till eternity and Tyler will not get a letter from the LADL.
As always, ain't me junking you. I respect your opinion and I know the feeling is mutual (well, except when I am just being an asshole).
pods
Did you see Miley Cyrus at the VMAs? If so, then you probably saw one invoking Kali with her tounge out on TV.
So Miley Cyrus is in the bunch?
I just thought she was a no class whore.
pods
You are both right...
There is a shadow government, it is run by Luciferian Oligarchs who believe they are gods. They have no nation and are only loyal to their globalist cause, and depopulating the "useless eaters".
This whole alien BS is used to discredit anybody who suggests the truth about our government.
Was scanning the comments like I always do hoping someone would lay the truth down, took 40 comments.....would have been 10 or less a year ago. I see a lot of new accounts and a lot more shit in the comments as of late.
Cheers SMG
"there's a shadow government and they usually start broadcasting at around 4:00 PM...then shut down for football."
If people can believe in god then why not aliens?
They already do; god is just the PC term for aliens.
They both are fictional.
It amazes me how many people on ZH follow religion blindly. Yet claim to have a logical perspective on everything else.
Religion is the opiate of the masses.
Debt enslaves the collective asses.
As I've read a few of your posts you're Jewish by blood line not religious views.
Something along those lines.
I think I'm gonna convert over to FSM.
Their beliefs hold about as much value as any other MSR (main stream religion.)
TIS edited your comment eh?
Try to figure out what somebody acutally means when they talk about spirituality vs. religion.
And then stick your nose deep into some books about quantum phenomenon if you want to get real warm and cozy in the logical / rational world.
I think there is some benefit in thinking of certain things as non-rational rather than irrrational. It just seems like the word irrational has gained connotative baggage that does not help conversations much.
Just some thoughts.
if you want to get real warm and cozy in the logical / rational world.
Please go on and explain to me what time is then?
It can't be proven that it exists, I can't see it.
Yet when I go to bed I know that time has past from when I went to bed to the time I wake up.
Must be black magic or the work of god.
I edited it.
I don't want people to think I'm a self-hating Jew, even if only by a few strands of maternal DNA.
Harrison Ford's a 1/4 Jewish, not too shabby.
Smoke some marijuana-ica, it's time to celebrate Chanukah.
I edited it.
All's good, I knew what you were getting at, wouldn't want you to have the same fate as Francis.
Francis can't talk smack about Jews b/c he's Shabbas goyim.
I can. It's like blacks and the "n" word.
I can. It's like blacks and the "n" word.
Ha solid thinking but on the internet don't know how far I'd take that.
Well TRUTH, Seeing as most of us are not zeroed in on Jews and nomanclature of said folks perhaps you would be good enough to explain what the fuck a "Shabbas goyim" is---specifically in relation to how Jews view them.
--"I can. It's like blacks and the "n" word.----------FUCK YOU VERY MUCH--ever call Poles "Polacks", oor Italians "Dagos", but if I call you a KIKE; that ant-semitism.
Read your post you arrogant ass. Milestones
wtf pissed in your corn flakes, dude.
You can & should call me any pejorative you wish; sticks & stones and I hate politically correct sensitivity and all that.
Kike, heeb, whatever. They're just letters arranged a certain way.
I'm part Irish, French and Czech, too. There's a ton of ammo there for you. Fire away.
If you knew me, arrogant is the last thing you'd think of me as.
Peace out.
Hey, TIS... Don't mean to interrupt but just wanted to throw a bit of appreciation for ur compliment the other day. The article is now beneath the fold but wanted to get back and say it didn't go unnoticed. We don't have to always agree... But thx for ur "digestion" of what I laid down. Cheers.
I genuinely meant what I wrote, tickhound.
It's a rare moment when any of us write something that is so thought provoking and encompassing that it challenges us to asess and reflect upon our paradigm assumptions about the world in such a deep, sweeping manner.
I'll stand by my post. Now please answer the question posed in the first paragraph. Now if you are non jewish per your post, go to NYC and say kike several times in your conversations. Milestones
The rapidly emerging theory is that space and time dimensions are creations of our consciousness. We know space and time are completely malleable. We perceive and can even calculate that we each have a specific space-time geometry that we carry around with us, like a cosmic GPS. IOW, we create the universe by collapsing the wave functions and their interference patterns to perceive the fleeting particles and their relationships in macro objects like chairs, desks, etc.
But everything in the universe is actually recorded down to the last particle and they exist simultaneously in past, present, and future. In this manner, each particle has memory of it's exact space time location and particle relationships all the way back to the Big Bang because all space-time moments coexist equally. They do not recognize space-time like we do. Our is a space-time illusion of before/after and cause/effect realtionships are ones we create. Bizarre but true. You and all your particles, down to your toes, just "Are".
And, so far there is nothing to indicate that our consciousness is also not eternal since we are made of the same star dust as all of the other particles -- you can not separate the dancer from the dance. Millions of global Near Death Experiences confirm post-death survival sans space-time dimensions.
The last 100 years of physics have confirmed many descriptions of phenomenon in religious texts. Fred Hoyle, who coined the term 'Big Bang' as a derogatory term, went to his grave about ten years ago at the age of 94 still bitter and denying the Big Bang theory because it was too "Biblical". It didn't help that credit for the theory went to a Catholic Priest, George Lemaitre!
Bang on my friend. For me at least.
I will be what I will to be.
We will be what we will to be.
I remember reading once about a god who said his name was I AM.
Alright 90s Child... You write, "Please go on and explain to me what time is then?"
Time is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-giw9ma68fU
Follow through with this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ohwAjCI4VM
Perhaps they are spiritual, but you write them off as religious. There is a world of difference.
spiritual set you free, reli-gious restricted, constrained, doctrinated...
Lao Tse said long ago: "The void existed before Tai Chi..." so religions existed after...no?
Perhaps they are spiritual, I wouldn't make such a vague comment if it was on an individual bases. How you interrupted it is on your own rationale.
I believe in Ezekiel there is a description of a ring of fire in the sky that matches many UFO sightings....and I certainly an all powerful God could make them or a powerful alien could pretend and would seem to be a god.
people think bitcoin is going to save us, if you can believe that you can believe anything... lol
> They both are fictional.
Proof or shut up.
Fact is, you have no way of proving either way. And, it appears your definition of 'logic' is only in relation to what you've been taught - not what you've learned.
Proof or shut up.
Don't need proof, my proof is just as valid as your religion cause there is no solid ground backing it.
is only in relation to what you've been taught - not what you've learned.
Religion is taught and preached. Just cause you believe in something does not make it logical or the truth.
Pot, meet kettle.
That is his point, and you missed it
Proof: Atheist fundamentalism requires a random universe. It isn't. Calculated odds are only 1 chance in 10^500th and continue to get worse with time. Anything over 10^50th is magic and mysticism. Atheist Plan A doesn't work, so whats your Plan B?
Proof: Spontaneous biogenesis theory has been proven false by militant atheists with Nobel prizes. even Charles Darwin repeatedly said, external intervention was required for life to overcome the 2nd Law of thermodynamics.
The only retort the atheist PhDs could muster regarding creation of life was that 'space aliens' intervened. But they were quickly laughed off the stage with permanent damage their repuations because the laws of thermodynamics are the same throughout the universe.... so, obviously, how did the aliens get there? Apparently these atheist geniuses hadn't quite thought their new theory all the way through. Duh.
So because it's so hard to believe that things just 'came to be' there needs to be a jusitifable or reasonable explaination to everything.
But it can't be proven either way so that makes it a theory, and not a fact.
But it can't be proven either way so that makes it a theory, and not a fact.
No. If it cannot be proven either way it makes it SPECULATION and NOT A THEORY.
Theories can be validated or invalidated with the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. It takes one data set which does not fit the theory to invalidate the entire theory.
Perhaps you need to study the Scientific Method. I am well schooled as I was a child of the 60s.
Could you please enlighten me on the following: a) How did you come up with your statistical probabilities? b) How does the 2nd law of thermodynamics inhibit the formation of life without external intervention?
Google: entropy God. You'll get hundreds of hits
As a disclaimer I didn't read the first hit that is linked below, and it was a dogpile search (not directly google)
http://carm.org/entropy-and-causality-used-proof-gods-existence
I've read plenty of the subject and am too lazy at the moment to read the link. Hopefully it is coherent and sheds some light.
my ed background includes PhD's in both physics and chem, and I'm still firmly planted on the fence as to THE God question.
I read the link and it was coherent.
Uncaused cause!
Argument 6 to Conclusion 7 was quite a logical leap and non sequitur...although I am more than inclind to believe that conclusion.
However Arguments 1 through 6 are valid.
Thanks for your post.
You claim agnosticism. I just cannot see this topic in that way.
Now I understand both theism and atheism. I tend to picture you leaning toward theism...perhaps because of my own bias.
But I am cognitively unable to step inside of your shoes and see that from your perspective.
I write of an infinitesimal chance of Universal Manifestation. As a PhD I am certain that you understand the regreesion of probabilities. That limit approaches ZERO (which means an impossibility). If it is not by chance, if there is order rather than chaos, if the Cosmological Principle is valid...one must see the underlying design and infer a Designer.
As I wrote I cannot see it from your perspective.
Again thanks for your input.
I cannot verify the 1 in 10500 calculation.
But...
Oxford University Professor of Mathematics John Lennox quotes renowned Oxford University mathematical physicist Roger Penrose:
“Try to imagine phase space… of the entire universe. Each point in this phase space represents a different possible way that the universe might have started off. We are to picture the Creator, armed with a ‘pin’ — which is to be placed at some point in phase space… Each different positioning of the pin provides a different universe. Now the accuracy that is needed for the Creator’s aim depends on the entropy of the universe that is thereby created. It would be relatively ‘easy’ to produce a high entropy universe, since then there would be a large volume of the phase space available for the pin to hit. But in order to start off the universe in a state of low entropy — so that there will indeed be a second law of thermodynamics — the Creator must aim for a much tinier volume of the phase space. How tiny would this region be, in order that a universe closely resembling the one in which we actually live would be the result?”
Lennox goes on to cite Penrose’s answer:
“His calculations lead him to the remarkable conclusion that the ‘Creator’s aim’ must have been accurate to 1 part in 10 to the power of 10 to the power or 123, that is 1 followed by 10 to the 123rd power zeros.”
As Penrose puts it, that is a “number which it would be impossible to write out in the usual decimal way, because even if you were able to put a zero on every particle in the universe, there would not even BE ENOUGH PARTICLES to do the job.”
DO YOU UNDERSTAND??? A CHANCE OCCURRENCE IS EXTREMELY IMPROBABLE.
1/10N, where N = 10123, is very much less than 1/10500.
How is that for an Infinitesimally small number?
Rule #1 in Biology - Life only comes from life.
Incoherent rambling. The arguuments you put in place against the likelihood of life appearing by chance must apply also to god appearing by chance. The stupidity of this lack of insight is quite frustrating. Life appeared originally in much simpler forms so I'm afraid your god is vastly more statistically improbable than say a single celled bacteria. <Atheist runs along boundary fence high fiving other atheists>
Science must win this argument almost by default. Life is here, we can see it, touch it, hear it and smell it. Little argument from anyone. There is no direct measurable or testable evidence of god. There is plenty of assumption made by christians that, for instance' the yellow and warm light of the sun feels like a hug from jesus so therefore jesus exists. That's not evidence though, that is the thinking of juvenile, at best, and deluded at worst human being. A christian can state many assumptions about the existence of the universe as "evidence" of god but that is an abuse of the english language and you christians are now no longer tolerated when you make these claims. Shoot, you guys have had a great run but basic education is catching up with you and your untouchable status has long since vanished with the power of the catholic church to burn heretics at the stake.
Ultimately the scientific method only seeks to explain via theory and modelling that is then subject to testing and pier reveiw over decades and even centuries. Models and theories that stand up to this testing survive, ones that don't are discarded. Science does not say "the universe came from nothing", it says "based on the evidence avaialble to us at this point in time the universe appears to have come from nothing".
The current beliefs in gods and jesuses and allahs and yahwehs will dissolve in time like all other beliefs in gods throughout deep history and will be replaced by some other belief to fill the void in the human mind in the absence of self belief, self determination and intelligence.
"It amazes me how many people on ZH follow religion blindly. Yet claim to have a logical perspective on everything else."
Some of these guys are pretty serious... just saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk
http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/01/07/sorry-guys-bigfoot-is-dead-cause-som...
Which ZH member is this?
You're the clueless and blind one. We've known for over a century the universe doesn't work according to 19th century Newtonian physics. Leonard Susskind beat the pants off of Stephen Hawkings a few years back in a famous bet, and says (like Albert Einstein), that this reality is not the real reality, the real reality is still in the singularity. Question is, Who and What is also in the singularity with us if we are actually actually simultaneously bilocated in each?
Atheist fundamentalism requires a random universe and that has already proven to be surperstition and mysticism since the odds are now only 1 chance in 10^500th that our universe is random. Moreover, a couple decades ago a dream team of militant atheists, some with Nobel prizes, set out to prove spontaneous biogenesis from the 'primordial soup' was the source of life on Earth. But they all came away badly shaken because they ended up proving it was impossible, and the odds were only 1 chance in 10^263rd -- AKA magic and superstition. Atheist Francis Crick (Nobel prize for DNA) admitted that, "Life is indeed miraculous, and life absolutely required external intervention, even the most primitive forms of life."
Charles Darwin, "God and natural selection are not mutually exclusive. External intervention is required for life to have arisen in order to vercome the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics."
Those are some pretty mainstream heavyweights. Who you got, Bill Nye the science guy?
@GWAR5
Damn, because it can't be proven there for it must be true.
'Wouldn't you rather believe in god and be wrong then not believe in god and be wrong?'
Please go on to tell me how god or a spirtitual being came to our exisitense.
Cause I can't prove it wrong nor you prove it right it must be true.
There's a lot in this thread that is wrapped up in dogma. Seriously, can't anyone every question a single thing they believe just one in a while?
Back to this one:
"Yet when I go to bed I know that time has past from when I went to bed to the time I wake up."
No you dont know. You mistake a perception of time with change. You need to check out some Quantum Mechanics and the idea of consciousness. Start consciousness with Rupert Sheldrake. Dude's the bomb.
@JPM
people here have conviction, can't blame them for that.
I'll add that to my list to read.
Bullshit. All I have to do is bitchslap your dogma back into the 19th century where atheist science stops. The atheist fundamentalist worldview has been soundly disproven and you didn't have a clue. You have no alternate theory because nobody has one for you. In the meantime, all the conditions for God to exist have already been proven to be there. If there are only two theories and yours is disproven, doesn't that prove the other theory is correct?
Atheists like to claim they believe in science but never seem to mention little things like Quantum Mechanics, singularities, quantum entanglement, String Theory, extra dimensions of existence, or parrellel universes, etc. etc. Science is a wonderful thing, you should try it!
Try some history and look up the 'Copenhagen interpretation' which was done in 1930's, by the Nils Bohr crowd in QM. It was a QM turf battle and it limited interpretation of the QM model to Bohr's liking and shut out findings and research that investigated the metaphysical unseen dimensions. Not a conspiracy against investigating existence of God perhaps, because I think they wanted gov funding to make bombs. Anyway, getting beyond that in the last couple of decades has given new legs to theoretical physics.
"In the meantime, all the conditions for God to exist have already been proven to be there".
WOW, what a statement. Proven. WOW. Do tell. First please define your definition of "proven". No, wait, please define your definition of "definition" so that your definition of proven is in a context I can understand.
No wait, please define your definition of "In" and "the" and "meantime" and "all" and "confitions" and " for" and "god" and "to" amd exist" and "have" and "already" and "been" and "to" and "be" and "there.
You better reply to this cunt because that last sentence was no fun to type.
When you can understand that Time is just a Measurable Dimension of the Physical Universe and not an absolute whatsoever then you can understand that what is outside of this Singularity, the Physical Universe, is Timeless.
Writing about Time in terms of what is outside of the Universe makes about as much sense as asking what is South, East and West, of the South Pole? (Any direction which you move is North when you are located at the South Pole.) There is a loss of "dimensionality" (MEASURABLE DIRECTIONS).
The singularity is like that of a Pole.
What is it like being in a Black Hole? We are inside of one. The Event Horizon is the beginning of Space and Time. The Universe is adiabatic. It is closed. No Energy can be created. No Energy can be destroyed. The transmission of Information takes Energy. So, likewise, information cannot be created or destroyed. (Hawking's dilemma.)
When traveling at Light Speed there is no distance traveled and it takes no time whatsoever. Space and Time have no meaning when one is traveling at Light Speed. There is a complete loss of "dimensionality" (MEASURABLE DIRECTIONS).
"God is the Light. In Him there is no darkness." That is directly from the Bible.
jeez TT, you are full of shit. What you write is poetic, I give you that but it is so full of shit that's I'm begiining to wonder if you aren't taking the piss. So when I turn on my Dolphin torch that's god. God is photons? Does that explain the double slit experiment, is god being a bit shy so fucks up scientists by behaving ambiguously.
Holy fuck, I got sunburnt yesterday - god has smote me, praise the lord.
the answer to what you call singularity, or god, for that matter, is consciousness.
Consciousness appears to be eternal. In a singularity everything is apparently shared information, including consciousness, if you believe thousands of NDEs. Can't hide what you did, what you think, or who you really are. You are also not alone and also confronted with the possibility of infinite information simultaneously. All this would be overwhelming if there were not a supreme consciousness to act as a filter of all things. So I don't think you've thought through the 'naked consciousness theory' through from origins to conclusion. NDEs do not report a chaotic lonely singularity experience.
If NDEs go far enough they consistently report: Life, intelligence, organization, a benevolent hierarchy, lack of space-time environment, communication at the speed of thought, separate but shared consciousness, vision 360 degrees all directions simultaneously, and an overwhelming presence of a loving supreme being flowing through everything. Those who say they experienced the Supreme Being say he was too overwhelming to behold directly.
Overwhelming to behold directly, like the chaotic singularity experience you seem to discard.
Hells bells, what a load of hog wash. This is more the writings of a science fiction or fantasy novel. I will give the human credit for it's incredible imagination. How you can leap from this to convincing yourself any of this has any merit is simply remarkable. At what point do we collectively say, nah, this is silly, possible yes but with the same probability as any other explanation that is understandable within the confines of the language and rules of grammar.
Nassim Haramein has some interesting thoughts on everything...
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Nassim+Haramein&sm=12
Please spare us with selective use of science to "prove" the entity called "God".
I'd simply push back (on your argument), by demanding "Who created the God entity?", since "God" is even MORE complex than hominids, and the core of your argument is based on probability of randomness/chaos leading to large structures of complexity.
The whole premise of needing a complex system to create a complex bio-chemical system is fatally flawed, because it can be cascaded ad infinitum, and a Super-God needs to create a God, who in turn is created by a Super-Super-God, who in turn... etc, etc.
Man created GOD to control other man, the higher power of authority superseding 'man' is not a new idea, its an old idea.
I have always felt that religion is needed because most men, are too stupid to figure out the ten commandments on their own, and NOT fuck their nieghbors wife.
***
Thus all society's either need RELIGION, or PRISON.
The USA long ago to do away with religion and send everyone to CAMP FEMA.
You're long on lip and short on any science. I even dumbed mine down for you.
Demands? You don't get to make any fucking demands, sucka! You're still on defense cuz you don't know jack. You didn't even know spontaneous biogenesis had been disproven, and by your fellow militant antheists no less. That's just plain fucking trailer trash ignorant dumb of you since your entire belief system and rants depend on it.
I thought all loudmouth atheists at least claimed to believe in science but there you are -- a proud flat Earther and Denier! Well, the universe is not random and spontaneous biogenesis is not possbile. I understand your whole atheist world revolves around those two things and now they have been shattered and proven to be completely impossible. You're just gonna have to try to deal with it and get on with your life without the Crayon goggles.
Militant atheist, Fred Hoyle, former head of cosmology at Cambridge Univ., after indepth collaborative effort regarding spontaneous biogenesis, admitted, "There is a greater chance of a tornado passing over a junkyard and leaving behind a 747 jumbo jet." Even Charles Darwin repeatedly said the same thing over 150 years ago.
It's clear you don't get the whole Supreme Being thing and what that might mean, or how the universe really works. God is characterized as before time and beyond time. Where there is no space-time there is no before and after, or cause and effect, that's why they call it a 'singularity'. God doesn't have to be created or developed from anywhere else because a singularity means he just "is", hence the references to the "eternal" God and to your "eternal" soul. Coincidentally, that is also fundamentally how the universe really works, too. Our reality, as Einstein said, is nothing but a space-time illusion.
We already take as mainstream fact today that the past, present, and future not only co-exist simultaneously, but co-equally, and all the time. You aren't aware of it because we are trapped in this 4-D space-time illusion. But you may have heard it said that 'invisible dinosaurs' could be walking through your living room at the same time 'invisible people' from the future may be there chatting from a parallel universe. We can't see them, they can't see us.
It's true, and with a thought experiment and wormhole glasses you could actually 'see' them and understand better, but I promised myself I'd dumb it down for you. Flash: Everything in the universe exists in constant dynamic flux as quantum information in one entangled, unbroken whole system that we call our universe, and distance between objects is just the illusion that we are not all connected as One.
"The universe is not like a quantum machine, it is a quantum machine." -- Physics professor, Columbia University
Allow me to decode/translate for you:
Angels = Starship crew
Archangels = Starship officers
Adversary = Vulcan 1st Officer (Contrarian view for Checks & Balances)
God = Starship Captain
Use your imagination to figure out who the Clingons, Ferengi and Romulans are in the Bible.
Hint: All are misunderstood space aliens, as understood by the primitive minds of ancient sheep and goat herders... semi-literate and of questionable hygiene.
If you can't or refuse to give up your childhood brainwashing and adolescent fantasies, if you can't/won't evolve beyond imaginary offenses as Sin and imaginary obligations as Debt, then I've got trillions of Debt-based fiat currency I'd like to sell you. Debt is Debt. Some would consider it a mortal sin to not pay it back, or try to.
First group of Agents and Brokers, er Shamans, er Priests to act as perpetual middlemen, are assured of perpetual job security and lifestyle above the masses that they'll rule in my/our celestial name.
Kirk out.
I'm wondering why ZH does know, that in the billions of galaxies no extraterrestrial lifeform can exist, which is interested in our planet?
There are thousands of year old stone monoliths, thousands of tons heavy and cutted that exactly that not a piece of paper fits between them. No scientist can explain how they were created and even with our technology today we are not capable to create them!
And at the Pyramids in Egypt, almost unknown to the public, there are pools nearby, built of huge cutted stones. Däniken presents them in his documentaries. Breathtaking recordings.
Anyone interested can search on youtube vor "Erich von Däniken" - this man has searched his whole life for these artifacts, investigated the myths of many of the old native cultures from Europe, Africa, to Asia, and also tried to explain it.
Since they cannot deny the overwhelming evidence of the artefacts he found and presents, they try to ridicule the person and his thesis.
BTW: just typing "galaxy" at Wikipedia should immediately show, how arrogant, ignorant or simply stupid it is, to ridicule the possibility of Aliens.
Not saying there isn't life on other planets.
To say there are aliens on this one is a stretch.
alien - a foreigner, esp. one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where they are living.
Do I believe there could be other life in this universe yes.
A greater being that created us. No
This article is about aliens, not about god. And it is about ridiculing the possibility that intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms could be advanced enough to observe us.
Tell that to the Mormons and Scientologists the two most powerful and newly created religions in America.
Both are loaded to the GILL with ALIEN folk-lore and belief that God sent their his only son to the EARTH from a distant planet.
***
When you hear the GUBMINT or anybody talk about 'Aliens' always think about GOD, isn't this why were told that ALIENS must be kept secret, because if the masses found out that the EARTH was not the center of the universe the world would implode?
Why does the old bible not mention 'space aliens'? Yes the book of Mormon, and Dianetics ( book of scientology ) is full of space alien bullshit.
"Space Alien" is just another religion, and personally I think the NSA/CIA would very much like the PUBLIC to view that GOD is ruling the USA, and not the US-MIL, cuz certain as SHIT, OBAMA ain't ruling americKKKa.
Great post. And I mean it. And upvoted you for it. And laughed hard all the way through it. Thanks again.
Religions and sects and cults have always been fascinating for me. I am a cult leader with a membership of one. Or maybe everyone.
God. Uncaused cause. Gods. Uncaused causes.
I believe :)
Oh ... and I don't want to say it's aliens. But it's aliens ;)
Just remember that CIA created Scientology.
Then it will be clear why the created 'space aliens' to fit their paradigm, replace the old-world god with the new world order, call it NSA/CIA an that it GOD, beyong mere men, and then the men who run the 'shadow gubmint' laugh all the way to the bank,
When I ever I hear anybody talk about 'space aliens' I know that I have met a religious nutcase working for the US GOVERNMENT.
Funny that almost all CIA-NSA are MORMONS, ... any of you ZH clowns ever wonder why NSA HQ new building is in UTAH?
Mormons are all space aliens, ... ERGO the NSA is space aliens, ... I mean they are all GOD's.
My personal fave place for shore-leave and getting my jollies (when not in a Holodeck), is in the "Virgo Cluster". Get it?
Why do you think that human mythology since the dawn of recorded history and all over your pathetic little self-important zit of a planet ALL share the story of gods from the heavens shagging your prime, fertile women, i.e. Teenagers? Coincidence, Destiny? I think NOT!
It's just "Starship Captains & Officers Gone Bad". When the Crew do it, it's another matter and there have to be consequences for them and the mortals. "Falling down" on the job won't do for them. And the horny ones who choose to stay become "fallen", ex-Crew. Aka devils or demons to you mortal hominids.
Kirk out.
How about: lost trade skills? Fact is, almost nobody knows how to properly hang a door anymore, fer crissake. And the prehung type have only been around for, what, 30 years? A society can technologically advance and lose basic skills at the same time.
A shadow govt., "governing in the dark" is a LOT more credible than the govt. being run by aliens......
Unless they mean illegal aliens.
Its no fun being an illegal alien.
Guess a couple people are not Genesis fans?
pods
How do we know they are illegal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reghyn9fmJQ
;-p
Nice reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6QbW5l_81c
Shadow Governent = Banks.
Simple.
I take it to mean that since they are and act as "alien power", what they do is "illegal" per the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, and they use the latest of tech toys and systems, they might as be "space aliens".
Whether we're talking about Space Aliens or Illegal Aliens of a foreign/alien power, if one wanted a small group (1-2%) of a population to control the rest, then using a series of leveraged takeovers would be the way to go, with all of them arranged in a (pyramidal) hierarchy.
No magic, just basic logic for those who choose to see the world and human nature as it IS, not as they've been pre-programmed/brainwashed from childhood.
A shadow govt., "governing in the dark" is a LOT more credible than the govt. being run by aliens......
Unless they mean illegal aliens.
I'm not saying it's Aliens
BUT IT'S ALIENS
so the upcoming dollar collapse can now be blamed on bitcoin and aliens......got it
~~
Shhhhhhh, dude! Don't give 'em an in. This is a really fun thread so far.
aliens created bitcoin, get over it!
Sounds like someone is propagating a meme in order to save us all from the future false-flag alien invasion.
You know it's coming.
Bluebeam or some such rot.
I never see much mention anywhere of that little secret space shuttle drone they had up there. WTF was that all about?
It's only conspiracy theory until it's conspiracy fact, hardy har har.
aliens = jews
Are they from Uranus? That joke never gets old.
Our leader's feces encrusted penis (aka the Indonesian colon probe) suggests that they may be from someone's anus.
Mr Spock has pointy ears, Mr Crock has pointy eyes.
Hmm, I'd always though that comments like David Icke's "6-ft reptiles" were metaphors for Satan-worshipping Jews. (To be distinguished from the other type),
The following link is at least an interesting perspective on their potentionally demonic genealogy, and it certainly gives additional perspective to their Talmudic law that in order to be in the club your mother had to be in the club. (Until very recent advances in DNA science, your paternity was always in question, but never your maternity).
See also Benjamin Disraeli:
"Language and religion do not make a race there is one thing that makes a race, and that is blood." (Endymion, pp. 249-50)
http://www.rense.com/general86/whopr.htm
At least skim through it. For many Christians it will challenge what you think you know, and it might very well simultaneously bolster your faith. I for one can aver that the Biblical quotes in that essay were certainly NEVER part of the liturgy in churches that I attended; yet they are in the Bible. The author simply puts 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 together and says, "8".
I don't really understand why ZH pokes fun at this interview. Paul Hellyer is a highly credible individual and what he is saying is the truth. For those who doubt, please look into the subject.
Finally ! Someone with balls to talk things thought !!
I feel like we are all one brothers !! Lets embrace the ALIENS !!! Come one amigos viene todos !!! Vamonos !!
The last card.
Anuna
Why is this supposed to be so damned funny?
because we merry gentlemen are fools
and the truth amuses fools as well
as astonishes and confuses.
.
many years ago i was advised to not
keep my mind open as my brains might
fall out my ears.
.
oh well ...
.
bouts of tears, laughter
and attention deficit are all
that remain by design and frequency
interruption industrially and energetically
synthesized by design.
.
where is man now,
under heavy machines
vibrating lighter and faster
till death do us part?
.
anyway poems *tm