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Vast Stretches Of Impoverished Appalachia Look Like They Have Been Through A War
Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,
If you want to get an idea of where the rest of America is heading, just take a trip through the western half of West Virginia and the eastern half of Kentucky some time. Once you leave the main highways, you will rapidly encounter poverty on a level that is absolutely staggering. Overall, about 15 percent of the entire nation is under the poverty line, but in some areas of eastern Kentucky, more than 40 percent of the population is living in poverty. Most of the people would work if they could. Over the past couple of decades, locals have witnessed businesses and industries leave the region at a steady pace. When another factory or business shuts down, many of the unemployed do not even realize that their jobs have been shipped overseas. Coal mining still produces jobs that pay a decent wage, but Barack Obama is doing his very best to kill off that entire industry. After decades of decline, vast stretches of impoverished Appalachia look like they have been through a war. Those living in the area know that things are not good, but they just try to do the best that they can with what they have.
In previous articles about areas of the country that are economically depressed, I have typically focused on large cities such as Detroit or Camden, New Jersey. But the economic suffering that is taking place in rural communities in the heartland of America is just as tragic. We just don't hear about it as much.
Most of those that live in the heart of Appalachia are really good "salt of the earth" people that just want to work hard and do what is right for their families. But after decades of increasing poverty, the entire region has been transformed into an economic nightmare that never seems to end. The following is a description of what life is like in Appalachia today that comes from a recent article by Kevin D. Williamson...
Thinking about the future here and its bleak prospects is not much fun at all, so instead of too much black-minded introspection you have the pills and the dope, the morning beers, the endless scratch-off lotto cards, healing meetings up on the hill, the federally funded ritual of trading cases of food-stamp Pepsi for packs of Kentucky’s Best cigarettes and good old hard currency, tall piles of gas-station nachos, the occasional blast of meth, Narcotics Anonymous meetings, petty crime, the draw, the recreational making and surgical unmaking of teenaged mothers, and death: Life expectancies are short — the typical man here dies well over a decade earlier than does a man in Fairfax County, Va. — and they are getting shorter, women’s life expectancy having declined by nearly 1.1 percent from 1987 to 2007.
In these kinds of conditions, people do whatever they have to do just to survive. With so much poverty around, serving those on food stamps has become an important part of the local economy. In fact, cases of soda purchased with food stamps have become a form of "alternative currency" in the region. In his article, Williamson described how this works...
It works like this: Once a month, the debit-card accounts of those receiving what we still call food stamps are credited with a few hundred dollars — about $500 for a family of four, on average — which are immediately converted into a unit of exchange, in this case cases of soda. On the day when accounts are credited, local establishments accepting EBT cards — and all across the Big White Ghetto, “We Accept Food Stamps” is the new E pluribus unum – are swamped with locals using their public benefits to buy cases and cases — reports put the number at 30 to 40 cases for some buyers — of soda. Those cases of soda then either go on to another retailer, who buys them at 50 cents on the dollar, in effect laundering those $500 in monthly benefits into $250 in cash — a considerably worse rate than your typical organized-crime money launderer offers — or else they go into the local black-market economy, where they can be used as currency in such ventures as the dealing of unauthorized prescription painkillers — by “pillbillies,” as they are known at the sympathetic establishments in Florida that do so much business with Kentucky and West Virginia that the relevant interstate bus service is nicknamed the “OxyContin Express.” A woman who is intimately familiar with the local drug economy suggests that the exchange rate between sexual favors and cases of pop — some dealers will accept either — is about 1:1, meaning that the value of a woman in the local prescription-drug economy is about $12.99 at Walmart prices.
I would encourage everyone to read the rest of Williamson's excellent article. You can find the entire article right here.
In Appalachia, the abuse of alcohol, meth and other legal and illegal drugs is significantly higher than in the U.S. population as a whole. In a desperate attempt to deal with the pain of their lives, many people living in the region are looking for anything that will allow them to "escape" for a little while. The following is an excerpt from an excellent article by Chris Hedges which describes what life is like in the little town of Gary, West Virginia at this point...
Joe and I are sitting in the Tug River Health Clinic in Gary with a registered nurse who does not want her name used. The clinic handles federal and state black lung applications. It runs a program for those addicted to prescription pills. It also handles what in the local vernacular is known as “the crazy check” -- payments obtained for mental illness from Medicaid or SSI -- a vital source of income for those whose five years of welfare payments have run out. Doctors willing to diagnose a patient as mentally ill are important to economic survival.
“They come in and want to be diagnosed as soon as they can for the crazy check,” the nurse says. “They will insist to us they are crazy. They will tell us, ‘I know I’m not right.’ People here are very resigned. They will avoid working by being diagnosed as crazy.”
The reliance on government checks, and a vast array of painkillers and opiates, has turned towns like Gary into modern opium dens. The painkillers OxyContin, fentanyl -- 80 times stronger than morphine -- Lortab, as well as a wide variety of anti-anxiety medications such as Xanax, are widely abused. Many top off their daily cocktail of painkillers at night with sleeping pills and muscle relaxants. And for fun, addicts, especially the young, hold “pharm parties,” in which they combine their pills in a bowl, scoop out handfuls of medication, swallow them, and wait to feel the result.
Of course this kind of thing is not just happening in the heart of Appalachia. All over the country there are rural communities that are economically depressed. In fact, according to the Wall Street Journal, economic activity in about half of the counties in the entire nation is still below pre-recession levels...
About half of the nation’s 3,069 county economies are still short of their prerecession economic output, reflecting the uneven economic recovery, according to a new report from the National Association of Counties.
So what are our "leaders" doing to fix this?
Well, they plan to ship millions more of our good jobs overseas.
Unfortunately, I am not kidding.
Republicans in the House of Representatives are introducing "fast track" trade promotion authority legislation that will pave the way for rapid approval of the secret trade treaty that Barack Obama has been negotiating. The following is how I described this insidious treaty in a previous article...
Did you know that the Obama administration is negotiating a super secret "trade agreement" that is so sensitive that he isn't even allowing members of Congress to see it? The Trans-Pacific Partnership is being called the "NAFTA of the Pacific" and "NAFTA on steroids", but the truth is that it is so much more than just a trade agreement. This treaty has 29 chapters, but only 5 of them have to do with trade. Most Americans don't realize this, but this treaty will fundamentally change our laws regarding Internet freedom, health care, the trading of derivatives, copyright issues, food safety, environmental standards, civil liberties and so much more. It will also merge the United States far more deeply into the emerging one world economic system.
Once again, our politicians are betraying the American people and millions of jobs will be lost as a result.
Not that the economy needs another reason to go downhill. The truth is that our economic foundations have already been rotting away for quite some time.
But now the ongoing economic collapse seems to be picking up steam again. For example, the Baltic Dry Index (a very important indicator of global economic activity) is collapsing at a rate not seen since the great financial crash of 2008...
Despite 'blaming' the drop in the cost of dry bulk shipping on Colombian coal restrictions, it seems increasingly clear that the 40% collapse in the Baltic Dry Index since the start of the year is more than just that. While this is the worst start to a year in over 30 years, the scale of this meltdown is only matched by the total devastation that occurred in Q3 2008. Of course, the mainstream media will continue to ignore this dour index until it decides to rise once again, but for now, 9 days in a row of plunging prices is yet another canary in the global trade coalmine and suggests what inventory stacking that occurred in Q3/4 2013 is anything but sustained.
Soon economic conditions will get even worse for Appalachia and for the rest of the country. The consequences of decades of very foolish decisions are rapidly catching up with us, and millions upon millions of Americans are going to experience immense economic pain during the years to come.
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I certainly agree on the local. That's the only way I can see to take back the life that's been stolen by greed.
One problem, chemtrails. According to Jim Willie there's Benzene in them. Gonna need a biosphere.
Accroding to the now deceased ex-FBI Ted Gunderson, our greatest threat is chemtrails & smart meters. Look around, they're building a new cell tower every bloody mile where I live. Goes hand in hand.
EVIL agenda indeed.
Anyone see the movie Next of Kin? Heard the song Country Boy Can Survive. My sister did some relief work in Harlan Ky in the mid seventies. The woman she stayed with had 3 of her 5 sons killed in bar fights. All were employed at the time in the coal business. There are parts of our country that until you see it with your own eyes words fail. It is disgraceful but are you going to change the culture??? Sad.
One study of violence in the US directly links 'Southern' heritage - specifically Scots-Irish heritage and customs which greatly influenced the rest of the South. Goes back to the borderlands Scouts used by the English to subdue the Irish - fighters for generations. The whole concept of 'disrespect' - now associated with urban blacks - goes back to this heritage.
In the North you had a commerce based culture - you did business with a wide range of people and had to deal with a wide range of people. You HAD to deal with people. In the South you had a plantation based economy or in the mountains an isolated self-sufficient one. You had a fairly strict heirarchy as well. The upper classes dueled over real or imagined slights. The poorer whites - inclined to fight anyway - imitated their 'betters' and fought over anything while treating their 'lessers' badly. Blacks picked up the same behavior. Your 'place' in that society was well defined and interactions with others outside your group very limited. Not a lot of 'need' (or opportunity) to deal with others outside your limited world while you HAD to deal with a wide range of people a more open mercantile society in an urban locale.
Hatfields and McCoys, fights over perceived slights - being served beer or whiskey in a 'dirty' glass... anything could be a form of 'disrespect'. Lots of bottled up anger. You're treated like crap by a good part of your little world so you're inclined to blow up at your 'equals' and abuse your 'lessers' because you don't dare hit back at those 'above' you.
Scos-Irish heritage - among the upper classes in the South and the poor whites - makes fighting a matter of pride. Not much else to be proud of for some.
We used to fight mostly cause we were bored.
Most of the country was like that not so long ago.
Appalachia - so that's where all the ammo and canning supplies ended up... and in the hands of people that know HOW to use them, and DO use them every day... Don't fret for the alcoholics and dope users in Appalachia, as they (like users all over the country) will either reform quickly or perish once the government can no longer keep sending out checks... And while Appalachia is not flooded in fiat, there is still a strong barter economy, on goods and services provided by people with useful skills that are useful now and will be even more useful later.
"Our jobs" The sense of entitlement just seeps from these leftists. Is the rest of the world supposed to remain impoverished forever so that Americans can get paid $40 an hour to turn a bolt a la the old UAW standard? Pick a random person out of sub Saharan Africa, or even western China, and drop them in Appalachia and they'd think it's heaven on earth. Are you going to tell that person sorry, they were born on the wrong side of an imaginary line so go home and live your life in squalor even though you can do the same job an American does? Yeah, real compassionate people these leftists are.
Get rid of idiotic govt intervention from Washington via Obamacare, regulations, and QE, and we'll see what the American economy can really do. Let America be America again.
To the three nut jobs who gave a thumb down, this is the 21st century. People compete mostly with their brain instead of muscle. If it is not the Indian or Chinese or the Phillipinos , it will be machine automation. Get use to it and adapt.
I have a Brain. But while my Brain works wonders it is my hands that service my Car. It is my hands that will replace that leaky faucet. It is my hands that hang doors. It is my hands that do any of the handyman work which I can do.
There will not be a "robotic plumber" coming over to snake the drains.
And when it all falls apart I am not depending on a robot to shoot prowlers. I am not depending on any robot to reload my shell casings, press in new primers, measure out loads and set in new lead.
I just do not believe that there is going to be a need for someone who can teach Math and Physics as it will be about survival.
The Convenience Store shelves will be empty, the factories will be vacant and if you cannot grow your own food or have any useful skills you will starve.
You need to get used to that and adapt. That is going to happen a lot faster than you may think.
-1 for you too:
machines are more expensive than human slaves.
Humans self-repair, self-seek food & can learn in ways no machine can.
Machines are useless once their purpose needs to change. Scrap 'em all & start over.
Not so with humans. They get old but they make enough babies to replace the elders at the sweat shop very quickly.
Ya, they are.
If they have resources of their own, so be it.
They don't need to deplete others' jobs & resoures to live.
Only the globalists are doing this. The local people the jobs are going to: are still poor & staying poor.
"If you want to get an idea of where the rest of America is heading..."
That does not resemble The Hamptons, in any way, shape or form.
The Hamptons has in a way become the victim of its own 'success'. They no longer are the nice little communities they once were. Good luck finding a farmer or bayman these days.
"Barack Obama is doing his very best to kill off that entire industry."
Really? I stopped reading right there....another blame rant... best post this shite somewhere else.
Exactly.
When government and industry combine to reap the fruits of a populations labor it is fascism.
"Did you know that the Obama administration is negotiating a super secret "trade agreement" that is so sensitive that he isn't even allowing members of Congress to see it? The Trans-Pacific Partnership is being called the "NAFTA of the Pacific" and "NAFTA on steroids", but the truth is that it is so much more than just a trade agreement."
Congress can reject it.
Do you really think they will? Every tax incentive and free trade agreement that has shipped work out of this country has made it through Congress. Don't look for that to change any time soon.
>>>>Congress can reject it.
Right, like everything else that's lined their thieving pockets.
He is clueless as it is the Senate's Responsibility, and the Senate's alone, TO RATIFY TREATIES.
Somehow I just do not think that Harry Reid is going to go against his Butt Buddy in the Bathhouse
Americans should build an army, navy and airforce that we as a people could use to fight the globalists...like we did during WWII against Japan and Germany.
No? Not a good idea or WTF?
yes, and we can call it the War on Globalism.
and, like terrorists, since globalists are not specific nation based, anyone might be a globalist.
we will have to ferret them out, we'll need an intelligence service, let's call it the New Security Agency, and let's have them monitor all electronic communications of everyone, to make sure all Globalists are caught.
realistically, though, the globalists are the 0.001%, they won't be fighting against your proposed army, you'll just end up having a group of people fighting another group of people. the poorest will suffer.
the way to fight globalism is not with an army, it's with the opposite of globalism: localism. build your local community, shop at small businesses, avoid big chain stores, develop resilience in your own life. withdraw from the systems that prop up the globalists.
As a descendant of the First Families of Tennessee, the first settlers where Welsh, Scotch/Irish and German peoples. These peoples were getting the hell away from the Quakers and Government. To them, it was heaven on Earth.
What ruined Appalachia was the American Chestnut Tree blight, Corps of Engineers with thier Dams, Coal Company's, TVA, Rail Roads, Logging...(wealth extraction)...my ancester's traded with American Chestnut's, which was a reconized currency at the time, and Tobacco, Hemp and made a little Moon Shine on the side, which btw, were also reconized currencies ;-)
I had relatives in TN also. Reading of their wills is nothing short of fascinating.
it's time to bring the Chestnut back.
- exerpts from a paper I submitted when I was a Freshman at University, many moons ago.
The American Chestnut Tree
...it is difficult to imagine the Chestnut-Oak forest of North America before the ravages of the Chestnut Tree blight. The disappearance of the Chestnut Tree led to the collapse of wildlife populations, and replacement of the Chestnut Tree by other tree specie led to the restructuring of forest communities.
...The nuts matured and fell from the trees in September and October, the ground often covered inches deep with them. The seasonal abundance associated with the arrival of migratory fishes and unimaginable numbers of migratory birds, became a social and even celebratory event as rural residents reaped the natural bounty. The natural abundance of the resource exceeded the demands placed on it. There were plenty of Chestnuts for wildlife, domestic stock and the people, as one Mountaineer remarked, "Chestnuts are like manna that God sent to feed the Israelites" (4)
"They also grew behind my house, and one large tree, which almost overshadowed it, was, when in flower, a bouquet which scented the whole neighborhoood, but the squirrels and the Jays got most of the fruit; the last in flocks early in the morning and picking the nuts out of the burrs before they fell. I relinquished these trees to them and visited the more distant woods comprised wholly of Chestnuts." - Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
...Memories of the Chestnut loom large for many elderly residents of Appalachia, a memory recalled with fondness, a memory of extraordinary abundance. The great forest, had passed away in less than fifty years. For generations the seasonnal bounty of Chestnuts provided food for natives and settlers alike, now Appalachian families faced enormous social and economic change, the shift from barter to a cash economy forced many families to leave their homes to seek wage labor. Most of the the land that was tenable was taken by former generations and was not for sale. The loss of the Chestnut Tree ended a way of life for many.(2)
---
That's all i can type for the moment, but there's more if anyone wants to hear it. R.S.
American Chestnut Cooperators' Foundation"Dedicated to the Restoration of American Chestnuts"
http://accf-online.org/
they've been breeding blight-resistant varieties. others have been crossing American with Chinese varieties. there's a bunch of info on the site for anyone who wants to participate.
~~~
thanks for sharing Rusty. to me, the Chestnut is a metaphor for America. something that has been lost through the spread of an internal rot, but with collective ingenuity, perservance & patience, can learn to grow again, this time with a stronger genetic intelligence to survive against infernal predators & parasites.
That's cool. I have two 15 year old American Chestnuts. They produce like crazy. They draw big and little critters. Hurts your bare feets. BAD!
I would really miss fresh roasted chestnuts on cold winter days if I ever moved back to the US (they're damn near as addictive as meth). There are some things Europeans actually do right...
Now there's an untold story. The early settlers of TN struggled like no other frontier. They perservered against the very fierce Cherokee, Chickasaw, Shawnee, Creeks. We were there early on as well. High bluffs of Stones River.
Left my wallet on a gas station urinal in Jellico, Tn on my way to Myrtle Beach. Didn't discover the loss till we were in NC. Stopped on the way back after one week to see if they found it. Cashier had it with all the $ and CC's still there. Have tremendous respect for the honesty of those people.
Ditto for me...even mailed it to me....I can be so stupid....thanks again
Most people are honest like that. Those are the ones whom I really do not want to see hurt. Unfortunately they are the most suscepatable.
The Banker Scum and Criminals...I am sorry but some criminals are not Bankers...are those whom will steal you blind.
This isn't anything new. I used to go to WV all the time as a young guy in the 80's for backpacking, caving, climbing, etc. As OP states, once you leave the main roads, it's rural Appalachia at its best.
The rural folks I met lived under conditions us urban types would consider poverty. But frankly they seemed content with their lives and would never consider leaving their communities. Many of them weren't "working" in the traditional sense OP means i.e. employed for an hourly wage by a company. Yet somehow they managed to live comfortably do jobs for cash at farms, etc.
Its sad what people will stoop to and what fates they will condemn themselves with when they give up on themselves.
interesting shit you find on the internets...
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Michael_T._Snyder
Michael T. Snyder is a fundamentalist Christian crank who has started numerous blogs as a testament to his raging insane belief that the world is about to end. He started with The Economic Collapse Blog in 2007, with constant articles stating how the world is going to hell every single day since the meltdown started in 2007. It seems as though Snyder blames the government for every ill in the world, because without it everything would be great.
Like most doom-sayers, it doesn't seem to faze Snyder one bit that every one of his past predictions of economic collapse were dead wrong. This horrendous track record would cause most people to reevaluate their beliefs in the effort to one day be right. Yet, he simply refuses to even address or acknowledge that he has been wrongthousands of times, especially if you count each numbered item of his massive lists. He seems to have explosive diarrhea of the mind that no amount of logic can slow or stop.
Who is this nut?Michael T. Snyder states on his contact page that he is an undergraduate in Commerce from the University of Virginia, and possesses a law degree with an LLM (legal emphasis, not stated) from the University of Florida law school. He has supposedly worked in "numerous Washington DC lawfirms", but quit to live outside of Seattle and rage at the world through the internet. Or as Snyder puts it "now I mostly focus on trying to make a difference in the world."
He also states very clearly "I am a Christian, but I believe that most of the churches in America have gotten way off track." Snyder has recently posted a statement of faith[1] in which he states that he believes that the Bible is literally true and that Jesus is coming down in person soon to start the end times to punish all the non-believers.[2] After which Jesus will start his thousand year reign over Earth.
Otherwise Snyder is very tight lipped about himself, which makes it hard to find out what drove him mad.
The Economic Collapse blog and clonesThe Economic Collapse Blog plays to the heart strings of every survivalist, tax protester, extreme libertarian, and rapture ready nut that can access the internet. The unfortunate part is manycranks post the articles far and wide to the groans of many people who have pointed out that time itself has proven all of the blogs posts over a year old (the longest time frame in Snyder's prediction range) dead wrong. Driving people insane with these unrelenting articles about global failure is very encouraged by the author as well..."please do not hesitate to spread these articles wherever you would like. I want as many people as possible to read them. Hopefully the things I write are helping a few more people to wake up."
The only ones to survive are the ones believing in the mantra of 3 G's (Gold, Guns, and God). If you don't have enough of the products to survive the shit hitting the fan, you can always click any of the links at the top of the main page to buy it!
Recently it seems apparent that Snyder has begun to realize his original blog has started to gain a long history of mocking reviews and refutations. He has created 2 clones of The Economic Collapse Blog called End of the American Dream and The Most Important News. These pages post the exact same pages and articles as The Economic Collapse Blog, just with different names and color schemes.
The contact pages[3] have started to include Snyder's StumpleUpon account with a user name called Matthew517,[4] which strangely posts his resident state as Virgina. The StumpleUpon account posts the exact same articles as The Economic Collapse Blog series of websites.
The interests area of this account is very amusing in that it links in very large and bold letters subjects like aliens, alternative news, banking, Christian, Conservative Politics (Snyder has stated numerous times that he is "non-partisan"), end times, Survivalism, and Swine Flu.
[edit]His columns are horrendous and part of the usual terrible op-eds. This one was better because he basically just paraphrases another much better and coherent written article on the topic.
This guy is a piece of sh!t huckster who makes a living and a buck by exploiting and capitalizing on religious nuts who believe that 'Jesus is coming back in our lifetimes and the Rapture will occur' (a belief held in surveys by about 60-80% of all Evangelcials in the US). He is the the lowest of the low.
There are people who support Michael Synder? WTF.
Cut and Paster...
i used to read SGT report ( i think it used to be a linked site from the ZH home page), as they sometimes had interesting articles.
but, there was so much hype, speculation, and gibberish, and yes they did put up michael snyder articles which were mostly fearmongering rubbish.
the other guy they had on there that was just as bad if not worse is mike adams:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mike_Adams
it seems michael snyder has a fan club here. ;-)
i have nothing against people speaking their mind, but i believe it important to understand the mindset from which the written words permeate.
Jaysus is gonna git you.
Wow. Do we blame the Jews or Islamists for this? And "What would Jesus do?"
/sarc <--- in case Bubba didn't pick up on the cheeky sarcasm.
IOW... Stop blaming others for your miserable fucking lives, get off your lard-ass, get informed, get active, get involved & organized, and start building something. For good examples and inspiration, look to the cities of Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Cologne. Dresden, Dusseldorf, etc. Look at them after they were leveled to rubble, and look at them 30 years later. The same can be said for all the inner cities in the US:
The REAL problem inside people's heads and hearts, not in just The System -- no matter how big a part The System has. If your worldview (mental model, paradigm or religion) isn't working, it's time to dump the Fucker and get a new one, a better one. Now matter how much "emotional investment" you've made, if the "religious investment" isn't helping you out, it's time to change & improve it or fucking dump this "dog" of an investment. The world is full of dead and dying religions and Shaman bullshit.
If there is one thing that History teaches us: Nature does not give a SHIT about your world-view or your precious little religion, or set of superstitions and indoctrinated or acquired habits. Rather, History and Nature teaches us that only those survive & thrive, who adapt the fastest to their (natural +man-made) surroundings.
No tears for you! This is Fight Club, not Pussy Club.
Ever heard of the Marshall Plan?
Yup. Ever hear of Marshall Law?
I have read about MARTIAL LAW but I have not read about Marshall Law.
Marshall Law won the Heisman back in 83, didn't he?
Or was he the dude on Gunsmoke...
Yeah I want to read about the Animal Kingdom. I want to read about adaptation and Survival of the Fittest.
Have you read Nietzshche's, "Beyond Good and Evil"? I am pretty sure that you have. Or is my assumption incorrect?
As you have written you need to abandon Morals, as I am certain that you do, because they do not work out for you.
We all know Bath House is a puppet- but we all know a Very Willing Puppet, one who hates America, and who hates YT with a passion.
This part of the country, where I originated, is the wellspring of the absolute and utter, total disgust I have for the gay little weasel and his ilk, who have done and are doing every thing they can to destroy the Spirit of freedom loving and honest God-Loving country people.
US coal can be mined and burned cleanly w/o onerous environmental penalties. No, it cannot be burned 100% clean, but this energy can power industry and commerce, which Bath House Barry and his bosses have sworn to destroy.
Bath House is the same kind of bastard as Adolf Hitler or Joe Stalin. His recent threat 2-3 days ago to Rule by Decree will indeed make the rest of America just as destitute.
Americans will have to finally say "No!" or be prepared to become something like soylent green.
they took away most of the coal and timber industry and then big pharma dumped thier drugs on them. theres your war
There was a Steven Seagal movie filmed in that part of the country.
FIRE DOWN BELOW.
Even in that movie, the poverty was evident.
And that was in the late 80's, IIRC.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fire%20down%20below&sm=3
Slavery had not been eliminated, it had only been expanded to include nine-tenths of the population. Everywhere.
- Russell Harrison, Against the American Dream: Essays on Charles BukowskiBut Superbowl , NFL, NASCAR, MLB are all around to keep the masses occupied. Sheeples love to be brainwashed. Never doubt the Amerikan Sheeple and their needs.
I am seeing a lot of BMW's at the Dollar Store and WMT Parking lots. I guess the make up is coming off .
There was an article in The Daily Oklahoman yesterday, about the small poor towns here that are deriving the vast majority of their income from Speed Traps. Seems all the local business's went out of business, and the towns have no choice for income but to stop folks for traffic violations. The state has had to step in and ban these towns from writing tickets on state highways, since some of them are getting 75% and up of their income from these speed traps.
Don't come to Oklahoma. If you do, drive very slowly RABBIT!
There's a lot of hotties there....till you find out they are 22 and have 3 plus kids from pick a number of different partners.
All over. Yonkers NY is writng tickets to people parking in handicapped spots at the local racetrack/casino who don't have YONKERS handicapped permits. So... you can have a NYC or other locality issued handicapped permit but that doesn't count - >$200 fine.
Between the speed traps, parking fines and all else, local municipalities are bleeding the citizenry dry.
The whole Northway - from Albany north to the Canadian border is one big speed trap for all those small towns. Has been for some time.
Government interventionism, aka, the War on Poverty, is destroying Appalachian culture. There has always been, and always will be, poor mountain folk isolated from many opportunities available in other parts of the U.S. There is nothing inherently wrong with being poor. The difference is now that the poor people who once raised the occasional pig or kept a garden to help support themselves are too fat and lazy to even wipe their own asses due to all of the types of government intrusion.
There are such good people here, and we have good things here that you won't find anywhere else in the country. And, we don't care how you did things wherever the fuck your from, now go away.
For many Appalachians, this is life: want a job? Chances are you'll work for the city, county, or state .gov. Don't want a job? Get on the draw. I hate this!
Or, make use of the assistance temporarily and get a life. In Kentucky, there are an assortment of programs that will pay for any single Mother to live in a decent home, have groceries, buy a car, have healthcare, child care, attend four years of college, and buy a first home. There shouldn't be an unwed Mother who isn't able to support herself and children later in life due to lack of .gov assistance. And the men are in no better shape. They will gladly tell you how "free" they are all the way to the check cashing place where they can offload the .gov paper for something "useful". Involvement in drug use and abuse stems from not having to do anything productive for one's self. We don't need more .gov, we need more people to know there is more to life than just eatin' & fuckin'.
The rugged individualism of the Highlanders who just want to be left alone still exists. Come see for yourselves. Instead of EBT cards, we would much prefer the poor be handed garden seed and gardening tools.
WV is a huge tax and spend state that spends much of their time trying to determine even more ways to receive a greater share of federal dollars by creating additional .gov programs. Remember way back when, shortly after the Newtown CT incident? SEN Manchin felt compelled to address the issue of stricter background checks for all gun purchases? How noble! Guess what? All criminal background checks for gun purchases across the U.S. take place in Clarksburg, WV! www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis For a few additional .gov dollars and jobs into his State, SEN Manchin was willing to throw all American's rights even further under the bus.
Government only grows, it never grows smaller.
Below is an interesting statistic, especially when considering population densities, average annual incomes and how Texas is promoted as a "least government regulated" state where Americans really protect their individual liberties.
Understand, the statistic below is from 2012 (pre- Newtown, CT), and also does not include gun sales to KY residents with CCDW making multiple gun purchases in a single transaction.
Estimated population of Texas in 2012: 26,059,203
Estimated population of KY in 2012: 4,380,415
19Jan2013
From the Lexington-Herald Leader online-
"The FBI tallies the routine CCDW checks with checks related to gun sales, which increases Kentucky's figures compared to other states. There were more than 2.5 million firearms background checks in Kentucky in 2012, about a million more than Texas, the state with the second largest numbers, according to data provided by the FBI."
Read the full article at
http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/19/2482919/gun-rush-weapons-sales-soar-i...
I say, when politicians decide the citizens should no longer have guns, let politicians be the ones to come and get 'em. Go fuck yourselves.
Until then, I hope everyday this .gov house of cards collapses. That is when the real work will begin, Appalachia can again help itself, and our communities will be strengthened by people doing more for themselves and each other. God bless.
To whomever bothered to "write" this article.
Picutres tell a thousand words so you don't have to.
The Economic Collapse Blog was easier to look at when the header image was a photo of a sinking ship, not an ad for a doomer fiction novel.
We're all gonna die!!! But buy my book first!
I'd suggest this one instead.
I'm not really sure what the author's point is - poverty in Appalachia? Well, yeah. Worse now that coal is declining and blue-collar factories have departed? Yeah. Drugs and welfare fraud? Where in America do you NOT find that? Wonder Bread? Actually, I thought that went away a year or two ago did someone bring it back? Hmm, yup, along with Twinkies:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/06/wonder-bread-back-on-store-shelves/2928585/
There is not always a point to acquiring general knowledge. One take away I got was that you can get a hooker for $12.99 in Appalachia.
And wait until you see just what that hooker looks like.
Like very "pneumatic"? ;-)
There is a "Twin" to Appalachia right here where I live in rural Northern California (We're talking the real Nor Cal, which is NOT the San Francisco bay area). I'm in Tehama County, where an old beat up camper is a home many are lucky to have. In fact, one is parked right down the street from me with a tweaker chick living in it. About 60 to 70% of the population is either on welfare, SS Retirement or SSI (many for "mental disorders" they don't really have).
Food stamp debit cards regularly exchanged for .50 on the dollar for cigarettes, beer, pot or meth.
Crime is out of control - anything not nailed down is stolen, even any little stupid thing that could bring even $1 at the pawn shop.
Jobs are available, but not many can pass a clean drug screen to get them.
People intentionally get hurt by walking in front of cars so they can collect insurance settlements.
People trying to sell any crappy thing, even used Walmart clothes on facebook.
Don't be so down in the dumps. Things are about to get better...it's tax refund time.
Capitalism creates a wasteland and ZH calls it "Prosperity".
If you want to envision a libertarian Utopia I cannot think of a better place to visit than the Appalachians.
While your there, tap into that groovy licorice smelling water...it's on tap so "drink up, ZH cretins!".
I believe that probably most zerohedge readers come from Appalachia.
While the other half comes straight from the synagogue.
Which are you?
keep taking the pills
Or you might visit Singapore or Switzerland, which are perhaps the world's best examples of "the least government is the best government."
WV has been a deep basket of poverty since the first Scots-Irish moved there. Evidently you're just catching up with that historical reality.
You realize that Switzerland has a totally "socialized" health care system? Of course it works. It is just absolutely the opposite of "no government involved".
No. Switzerland has mandated PRIVATE insurance.
However, it certainly isn't the land the "no government" what's different in Switzerland is that there are three relatively powerful levels of government as opposed to one, which creates competition and (some) accountability, particularly since the uppity serfs have (and regularly make use) of direct democracy (referendum) at the Gemeinde, Cantonal, and Federal levels.
Actually that's a lie. Private health insurance in Switzerland is not mandated.
I think I know the laws around here reasonably well, and the last time I checked, that was one of them.
http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19940073/index.html
Germany is the best comparison. It is a industrial state that provides awesome benefits to its citizens through socialist philosophies of taxation.
Rednecks should travel more.
I went to Germany for lunch this afternoon, after hitting three continents in the last week, I hardly think MOAR travel is going to do me much good.
Your right. We can fix many things but stupid isn't one of them.
Nice way to demonstrate your intelligence, or lack thereof, freshcut... it is a contraction of "you" and "are", there's an apostrophe in it and it's a homonym (homophone) of "your".
Now go back to your basement and do your homework before tossing around such (apparently for you) difficult words as "stupid".
sigh.
here we go with the pro-government propoganda.
here is a clarification for you.
states do not ever "provide awesome benefits" for people - any benefits you experience come from ordinary people who work and produce things like goods and services.
whenver you perceive benefits coming from the government, what is really happening, is government agents are pointing guns at working people and saying pay us taxes, or else! then they are using some of the stolen money for these supposed "benefits" so that they can claim to be the good guys, while keeping some for themselves, and wasting some due to inefficiency of government.
if you get rid of the middleman (government), you get rid of the wasteful inefficiencies involved, and you have even *more* "awesome benefits" for you to enjoy, d00d!
I wouldn't be so quick to tout Singapore as some model, no more than one should tout Norway as a model. BOTH happen to be doing reasonably well as of late, but their "success" is likely only going to be fleeting. When the pull-backs to growth catch up to them we'll see how stellar they are.
You see, it's more about wealth than what "system" is running.
WV is a perfect example of exploitation w/o regard to the future. Just like with Haiti (compared to the Dominican Republic). Trash your land and you're pretty much fucked: the rich head to greener pasture to exploit; if those pastures didn't exist then they'd be just as fucked as those staying put.
Capitalism never creates a wasteland.
Instead of reaps the land clean of unworthy occupiers so that better occupiers can take their place.
Those who live in the appalachans are ILLEGALLY ATTACKED by government goons & also by coal-mining goons - ruining their water quality & endangering their lives.
This is 100% anti-capitalism. The people harmed are NOT COMPENSATED AT ALL for the loss of THEIR PHYSICAL PROPERTY. There is no contract.
Manifest Destiny Bitchez!
Whether poverty in Appalacia is a bad thing or a good thing is all a matter of perspective. The fraudulent "War on Poverty" has done as much to preserve poverty as to relieve it. The important point to grasp is that this makes it "successful" from the point of view of government bureaucrats and politicians.
Actually solving problems is not a policy objective. It is "trying" to solve problems that rewards government. Eight of the ten wealthiest counties in the US surround Washington, DC. That has been the only policy objective and it has succeeded admirably -- not for the nation, of course, but certainly for the apparatchak class. Anything that gets in the way of growing the government will be attacked, root and branch.
The most recent initiative has been the dedicated FDA effort to overcome Appalacian "mountain pride":
http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/03/usda-combats-mountain-pride-self-relia...
Self-reliance is the enemy of government and dependency is its truest friend. Policy objectives naturally follow (the money).
Problems can't be solved, unless, that is, "sovled" means death, as solved/solution really implies a state of permanence, and, really, nothing is permanent as long as the clock is ticking...
"Govt" is but a tool of corporate power: see "Revolving Door."
There are also folks within govt who are not corporate whores.
I don't know enough about the histories of folks there to understand whether any federal level program is based on cleaning up after corporate abuse. And this is my concern, as the environment is EVERYTHING. Interesting bit of discussion of this here (just regular folks, no politically-charged frothing or other agenda-pushing going on):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/archive/index.php/t-69399.html
Another reason why this Williamson story about hoarding soda is a lie is because the actual storefront soda space is maintained by the distributors. It's the distributor that stacks the shelves, checks the expiration dates etc. If the product does not sell before expiry, the drivers take the product back and issue returns credit.
I had a friend that ws a plant manager in Florida, sometime he would be bewildered because he would get a fine because his product was found in Arizona? Bottling soda is not a Mickey Mouse business like the writer implies. Also soda has a very limited shelf-life.
But you can believe what you want.
Do poor people drink more soda?
Why couldn't it be Colombian coffee or baby powdered milk that's being exchanged for cash; it's always has be drugs or soda? Why, because these types of stories(not Snyder) are written by propagandistic libertarian goons with an agenda.
soda has a limited shelf life? wut?
It does. It goes bad. I have bought dated soda and it was flat...which just goes to prove that the writer to which you responded, limron, IS...FULL OF SHIT.
Many small store operators buy their soda pop at Costco and remarket for profit. I know a few.
Furthermore Vending Machine Business Owners do this all of the time. They buy at Costco and stock their machines.
We have an onslaught of the Obamabots flooding the site today. I hope that they are enjoying their pittance of a paycheck. English and Journalism Graduates must find work where it is offered as they have few other marketable skills.
It is sad that they know not how to pick up a shovel because the Shit that they spew becomes quite malodorous, especially when they are distributing it by their hands.
LMAO.
You obviously know nothing about the beverage and bottling business. CO2 escapes very quickly especially in warm climates. Since soda could sit for weeks in warehouses before it is even shipped, its sell-able life is very short.
You imply that vending machines owners could buy their soda from Costco(they have to enter into agreement with Pepsico and Coco-Cola?) Who maintains these vending machines? Try to buy a soda machine from Pepsico or Coca-Cola, maybe you can stock it with RC?
You contradict Williamson's post anyway and post false information.
Other points:
This must be some economically significant business sustaining all of Appalachia. All the Appalachians on Food Stamps buying soda on EBT cards and selling it for pittance to other Appalachians on Food Stamps.
As I said above, this will never happen with bottlers who are legally obligated to ensure that their product is not sold outside of their franchise territory--they stock soda and maintain shelf-space.
Williamson post is BS.
Legally obligated? Again if some of this stuff is second, third or even fouth hand off the shelves who is to prevent whom from transacting it and where?
The story has a lot of merit. While I haven't been to Kentucky in a couple years I do manage to get to West Virginia (mostly the eastern, but also northern panhandles) every couple months (it is next door to me). Not as impoverished as what's described here, but venture off the US highways and state routes and you will start to notice weird shit (and maybe hear a banjo strum).
"You imply that vending machines owners could buy their soda from Costco(they have to enter into agreement with Pepsico and Coco-Cola?) Who maintains these vending machines? Try to buy a soda machine from Pepsico or Coca-Cola, maybe you can stock it with RC?"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=soda+vending+machines
Again, there's no law against anyone buying a vending machine, stocking it with what they have purchased, AND, maintaining the vending machine (or paying someone else to). Perhaps maybe not quite the discount that one can get from true beverage wholesalers, it's still POSSIBLE.
You see Bronx bodega owners and what I presume to be vending machine route owners stocking up at the local Costco all the time. You know the Bodega owners because they're also buying Paper Towels and TP.And when you see the same people loading flat trucks with cases of soda and boxes of candy/snacks on a regular basis....
You know what is funny? I know what I wrote from EXPERIENCE.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/search/?sort=rel&areaID=8&subAreaID=&query=vending+machines&catAbb=sss
Not one of these people selling Vending Machines or Vending Machine Businesses have any agreement whatsoever with PepsiCo or Coca-Cola Inc.
I have helped my friend buy product. We shopped the Vons...especially when they had deals on 12 Packs. I have three different phone numbers so I have three different Von's Club Cards.
I have bought a lot of Soda Pop for my friend, pal. I have traveled with him and have helped stock those machines on his route in LA. You are so full of shit.
As I wrote I have purchased flat soda. The last Two Liter Bottle of Mountain Dew which I purchased was flat. It is a small shop run by a Chaldean. It is kind on funny. You know how gambling is illegal? He has an operational Coin Pusher Machine in his store, loaded with Quarter Dollars.
Let me ask you a question. Is it Welfare Fraud for someone to take their Soda Pop products and sell them for half price after they used their EBT to acquire them?
YES
Is it illegal to resell Soda Pop products without a Distributor License? Perhaps or perhaps not. I do not care.
I do not think that moonshiners, tweakers and prostitutes give a flat flying fuck about the law.
Personally I do not care about the law. Now I am not a moonshiner, drug addict, drunk, or a prostitute. It does not matter.
The Government is a total piece of shit. Sorry to burst your fucking bubble.
I've had YEARS old soda in cans or bottles, never opened, never went flat.
I think you're full of shit.
I've had YEARS old soda in cans or bottles, never opened, never went flat.
Lucy... you gotz som splainin' ta do.
And yet the crime rate is half of what it is in "richer" parts of the country. But, poverty and crime go hand in hand. Except when it doesn't.
you have to have SOMETHING before it can get stolen
HOCKEY GOON just does not realize that most crime goes unreported. In fact poor folk want to avoid the law as much as possible so if something is stolen they are more likely to act out revenge on their own.
I live in a poor community is San Diego. Nobody calls the cops. If someone steals he is more likely to be driven out to the desert and nailed on one of those Palo Verde Trees and left. They're not missed and the Coyotes scatter the bones.
Abandoned Mine Shafts are also a good place to throw them into.
Did you know that 33% of all murders go unsolved? There are also a lot of "missing persons" that are never found.
"In fact poor folk want to avoid the law as much as possible so if something is stolen they are more likely to act out revenge on their own."
The renter of my property before I'd bought it was illegally growing pot: discovered this fact after he'd moved out. He'd had some folks tresspassing (right when I'd purchased the place) and was quite mad. I asked him if he'd called the Sheriff and his eyes bugged out and he quite emphatically exclaimed "NO!": I suppose that I should have picked up on That clue. The irony was that the folks tresspassing were, as he called them (he figured he knew who it was), "crack-heads." I'm fortunate that no one messes with me: having a good dog is a plus, that and the fact that I'm seen as being a little crazy... (kind of like: http://movieclips.com/EtSy-lethal-weapon-movie-crazy-cop/)
These trolls, whom are flooding ZH today, must have lived extremely sheltered lives.
When the Shit hits the fan they are going to be in for one hell of a Rude Awakening.
It reminds me of the movie where this cop was awakened after being imprisoned in a state of suspended animation. (Might have been Michael Douglas who plyed the cop.) But he wakes up in a fictional San Angeles to track down a very bad criminal. I liked the scene when he leaves the clean utopian controlled city into the underground and has a Beer with his Carne de Rat Taco. Wish I could remember the name of that flick.
Anyway that is what these sheltered Trolls remind me of...the controlled people in that city of San Angeles. LMAO
"They can't do that...It...it...it...it's against the law." LMAO
Demolition Man
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106697/
holy crap, it was Stallone.
Amnesia, much?
What we should be expecting is the cop who woke up on the wrong side of the bed in the 1st episode of Walking Dead.
Now HE had a bad day.
People often have cause and effect backwards and this is especially true with academic types. Street crime causes poverty, but poverty does not cause crime. Who wants to start a shop in Baltimore city when you're likely to get robbed twice a month? Thus no businesses, thus no work, thus poverty. In Appalachia it's a different story.
The article also suggested that poverty leads to drug use and alcoholism. I'll argue that while that is true (vicious cycle) drug use and alcoholism are much more likely to lead to poverty than vice versa.
Your post should go at the top!
That's because the genes of the appalachian folk are much less predisposed to violence compared to the more melanin-enhanced individuals in the cities. The evidence doesn't lie, despite what the ivory tower liberals will scream at you: we are all perfectly equal on this earth (except for those dumb republican rednecks from the south, they are just born stupid.)
This is the price you pay for being ignorant. Nature will ensure survival of the fittest eventually.
and one day when the appalachia kimberlite is found....boom town.
REAL free trade - not these fake "free trade agreements - is a human right, but it would STILL result in expensive U.S. jobs being relocated to more efficient locales overseas.
What do you propose? Telling people they may import? Ordering them to pay high U.S. wages? Dictating what people may or may not buy?
Sorry, but U.S. living standards are as a whole far, far too high for the workforce's meager productivity. They're just too expensive; there's no reason to invest or start a business if there's at best a TINY profit to be eked out...
Living standards will continue to fall. They have to.
The god you people pray to is capitalism. Fuck capitalism if it means poverty and no work.
"Socialism is a system in which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else."
Fuck socialism too, you idiot.
To say that "opening the borders" is a human right, is the height of capitalist propaganda.
It's the decision of wealthy capitalists, so they can ship jobs overseas. Normal working people who agree with this, are born stupid.
No, fuck you and your fucking whinging. Think you're clever, but you're just another mouth to feed. Fucking nothing to say we haven't heard before, calling people idiots and such, so shut the fuck up already.
Noone feeds me, but me and god. Keep licking Wall Street ass, see if it gets you anywhere.
He used the word "whinging" so he is a loyal subject of some commonwealth.
He's a brit fucker, gotta be. He loves to nuzzle up to the yeasty taint of a blue blood and suckle at the brownish drippin's, "Thank you your Lordship, may I have another." He is patted on the head like a beagle.
Very good detective work. I give you a +1 for the "brit fucker" despite the drivel that comes with it. It's just a rock with some people on it, granted that few of them read ZH.
Socialism is what the people in charge want it to be. Just like ALL other systems.
Try the flow between the communicating barrels.
ROT in the USA have nothing to do with Capitalism or SOCIALISM, it has to do with 'reserve currency'.
Only the USA is a nation of assholes, ran by assholes trying to control the world, WHY? Because the USA has gone FULL RETARD NAZI to maintain its RESERVE CURRENCY STATUS.
"reserve currency", means
1.) export jobs
2.) world policeman
3.) permanent war's
The USA MOFU's that decided back post civil-war in Lincolns time to make the USD the worlds reserve currency, they are why the USA is what it is today.
All the symptoms of ROT in the USA have nothing to do with Capialism or SOCIALISM, it has to do with 'reserve currency'.
This is called the 'reserve currency paradox' ( go read wiki ), once a country goes "reserve" it must 1-3 above, in order to maintain reserve currency, eventually the country cannibalizes itself, thus its a paradox, TPTB want to print money for nothing, but to do so they destroy the country and its people, ... too late now, ... the damage has been done.
This is why NOBODY on earth except the NAZI-USA wants to be 'reserve currency'.
This is why Russia&China want IMF-SDR for 'reserve currency', then an army of PRAETORIAN-MERCENARY's can do the dirty work.
It all comes down not to some esoteric "economic theory," but to resources. Neither socialism or capitalism means fuck if there are no resources.
"Fuck capitalism if it means poverty and no work."
So, are you saying that something else would mean "wealth" and "work?" And would this hold true if there were 50 billion humans on the planet and the planet's environment was trashed (because, regardless of "economic theory," overpopulation is overpopulation)?
Pot calling the kettle black.
Clowns to the Left of me jokers to the Right...
Free Trade? How about Fair Trade?
I want the clothes I wear, the food I eat, and the home I live in to be made by people who can afford the same clothes, same food and same home as I do. I want those things to be made in a factory with decent hours, decent wages, no child labor, safe machinery, and that doesn't dump effluent into the same water their workers have to drink from. Apart from that, I don't care where it's made or who makes it.
I start from the notion that it IS possible. Now then, how do I do that?
I want the Ferrari I drive, the Gulfstream I take to my winter home, the champagne I drink and the caviar I eat to be made and prepared by people who can afford the same. I just had to write that out to see what it looked and sounded like.
Exactly. Under the bargain we entered, the West received several decades of false prosperity and cheap tech gadgets, exporting inflation and 18-hour factory work days, and now the Piper wants to get fucking paid.
You do realize that Fairtrade standards are used by bankers and big corps to facilitate market access and guarantee preference for the products off-shored by their jobs exporting side business...
fair trade, huh?
what is fair?
as far as i'm concerned, if both parties involved in an agreement are engaging in a voluntary transaction, free of coercion or fraud, then it's fair.
"I want those things to be made in a factory with decent hours, decent wages, no child labor, safe machinery, and that doesn't dump effluent into the same water their workers have to drink from."
And would YOU be working in such a place? Or, are we talking about just "those others?"
If you consume more resources than are being regenerated then no matter what you WISH for it AIN'T going to happen, not in the long-run.
The fact is is that factories reduce human participation. And as we want and consume more from factories we are making MORE humans. This equation is a bad one for producing the picture you paint.
"I start from the notion that it IS possible."
No, you start out with a false premise. It is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve any success from this. Again, if there were 50 billion humans on this planet I'd suggest that there is ZERO chance of all living as you envision.
I was playing Fallout 3 yesterday and I noticed that the capital wasteland actually has a thriving economy. It has bars, gun shops, traveling merchants, doctors, scientists, and mercenaries. We could possibly fix most of the US just by nuking a few cities and reducing the population to small communities while avoiding the zombies and mutants occuyping the ghetto areas.
brilliant game on all fronts.. bethesda made a masterpiece.. atleast someone is working near D.C.
Funny, as long as we're all opining here. For years I have thought that the only sustainable political model is the city-state.
Well defended borders surrounding a small, limited turf of like-minded citizens. Those who want to escape may do so by moving out of the city. Of course such people won't enjoy the benefits of the city's government, although they may benefit from trade. And when the guy at the top turns out to be a shithead like Bush or Barky, then the only population damaged (or sacrificed) is city-sized.
Shithead rulers always come around sooner or later. The best plan allows for damage control when (not if) they do.
Sustainable until some other citystates decide to take over more citystates and become nations.
Have we seen this before in history?
There are only a few constants offered in the Physical Universe. Everything else is DYNAMIC, SUBJECT TO CHANGE...
And yet we want things constant and sustaianable? I want to float. They need to make a law against Gravitational Attraction. That will do it.
Sustainability my ass. Nothing is sustainable. That is the reality. Most everything is unsustainable, subject to entropy, decay and subsequent death. That is the way it is.
Few understand this. So they seek POLITICAL SOLUTIONS to problems having no solution.
THERE ARE NO POLITICAL SOLUTIONS. THAT IS THE REALITY.
Heh, good points. You guys make me glad I said "sustainable" rather than "realistic"!
If your a sheep-herder, and you slaughter ALL your sheep one year, then it ain't sustainable,
But if you let youngin's grow-up, and for every new born you slaughter the old, this is called sustainable.
Long ago in MA&PA logging, you didn't cut all the trees and you always left the BULL's up, so they could seed other BULL's ( biggest baddest trees ),
Sustainable logging was for 100's of years alive and well, and then came post 1950's clear-cut industrial corporate logging, and entire sustainable communtitys that were 100's of years old were destroyed, and today they're meth dens.
Go anal your self with a goldman-sachs dildo tall-tom, you deserve a break from your apologist bullshit.
You are so full of shit satoshi. There is either growth or death. I see that you lack any experience farming. My herd may reproduce but it is subject to aging and death. The Law of Entropy is a Natural Law.
Furthermore I am looking for the day that it all collapses so you, personally, will experience the effects of entropy.
By the way...I would BOMB Goldman Sachs if I were an atheist. Hell I would travel to the Phillipines and take out your ports.
The only thing holding me back from exacting revenge is the fact that there is a God.
But since you are such a spineless cretin you can actually suck your own dick. That is because no ther self respecting faggot would have a fag like you.
Go autofellate Satoshi.
Cities, by their very definition, are unsustainable. I'm kind of not thinking that it's a good idea to "allow" them to start with: they will ONLY build up armies and then come to the countryside to steal (when their tokens are not accepted in exchange for trade).
sustainable jobs, ... is what we should define as 'sustainable'
just take enough from nature so that your children have a job... like logging, if you cut it all down, what the fuck will the children do?
***
City is not sustainable,
But RURAL meth communitys aren't either METH heads don't farm, they don't do any kind of work other than hustle, steal, or mix chemicals to get high,
Not unlike rural INDIA, where they mix poisons for the punch bowl at weddings and everybody dies, this is not just a USA poor problem, this is a universal POOR problem, but in INDIA these people were always POOR,
IN the USA only 50+ years ago these small rural towns were vibrant and sustainable, now I agree that because of the WALMART effect all MA&JOBS are gone.
Local currencies:
http://www.lietaer.com/2010/03/the-worgl-experiment/
"this thread is useless without pichers"
Yup and thanks to the massive soda consumption the next epidemic in the Appalachia is going to be diabetes. A lot of people who are going to get their fingers/toes lopped off, go blind, and have strokes/heart attacks. There is a reason they call it the 'Stroke Belt' already.
It is all white communities either especially once you go down into the Deep South either especially in Mississippi and Alabama.
isn't that where they film that reality show Walking Dead?
This is by design of course. People in desperate poverty are easier to control and manipulate.
Besides, the social and economic Marxists are having a field day with the destruction of the middle class. They couldn't raise their 'downtrodden pets' upward so they've resorted to bringing the middle downward.
And then the rub of course is that these very cultural and economic Marxists are the elites. We can't ask them to forgo their lofty positions because, after all, they know what's best for us...
They need there foodstamps and other forms of welfare, so they won't be any problem.
"This is by design of course."
I think it's no more than a "captured market" creation. There's been lots of talk about drugs here, but it's the model that is the thing- get people addicted. Nothing new here.
When there's a power center there will always be the "elites." Thinking that this is applicable only to "Marxists" is setting up blindsides.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply and I care not who makes it's laws." - Amschel Rothchilds
HUMANS always get drunk or stoned, forever been tehis way,
Monkeys eat rotten fruit in the wild and eat the shit until they pass out. It's called 'fermentation' in the wild.
***
The deal with METH, is its the cheapest and most powerful way to get HIGH, and doesn't have a fucking thing to do with DESIGN.
The US COPORATION's destroyed these small rural towns by the 1,000's, and now its 3rd/4th generation welfare.
To alleviate their PAIN, they get HIGH, and its METH, cuz everything else is too expensive.
But let me make this clear the recipe for 'mountain meth' is mostly pesticides and herbacides, ... and such, stuff found at the local farm-store, or feed-store,... you would be surprised that they're even using round-up and ddt in the cook shops.
It's not like breaking-bad showed where they use pure chemicals and shit, ... its more like mix up a batch of POISON and get HIGH, and call it METH, ... all the same, you get high, sometimes you die, and your kids come out retarded.
Appalachia has been through a war: the 'War on America' currently being waged by Wall Street and their stooge army inside the Beltway.
I blame statists, personally.
why do you blame "Wall Street?" Your federal gov't single-handedly has created a permanent poverty for which it Constitutionally hasn't any authority, through legislation and regulation of economic activity. I get sick of hearing the bleating "wall street."
NOPE this is BULLSHIT
The Federal Government usually has to come in and fix the problems created by the corporate owners, aka BAILOUTS.
Take sustainable mining, then the CORPORATIONS got greedy and started 'strip mining' which led to an environmental catastrohpe and now mining is halted.
Whose fucking fault? The EPA or the asshole CORPs that started strip mining?
Sadly I hate to say, but in most cases the FED government is a dog on a leash, and the leash is held by the US corporations.
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Why are these Rush Limbaugh types here attacking uncle nazi sam? I thought that ZH was mostly kinder and gentler Nazi ameriKKKans'?
You have stopped us cold Satoshi101. There is nothing more we can do.LOL