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Guest Post: Can Ukraine Be Saved?
Authored by Yevhen Bystrytsky, originally posted at Project Syndicate,
Acrid black smoke hangs in the air and stings the eye in much of central Kyiv, where state repression is dampening hope of resolving Ukraine’s political crisis. With a truce between the government and the opposition shattered only hours after it came into effect, and with dozens of people reported killed in recent days, any hope for an end to the country’s deepening civil disorder appears to be fading fast.
Yes, a tentative settlement has been reached, following mediation by European Union foreign ministers, with a promise of early elections. But such settlements have been proposed before, and no agreement is likely to gain broad acceptance unless it includes the immediate departure of President Viktor Yanukovich.
In fact, Yanukovich’s government seems prepared to use any and all measures to remain in power. Taking a page from Russian President Vladimir Putin’s playbook, tax police are prosecuting civil-society organizations in the hope of cowing them into silence and irrelevance. Yet, despite such intimidation, Ukrainians from all walks of life have been protesting for three months in cities across the country.
At its heart, this is a struggle between Ukraine’s European-oriented West and its Russian-fixated East for the country’s geopolitical soul. Will Ukraine move closer to the European Union or instead join the Russian-dominated Eurasian Union?
Despite the mounting violence, Ukraine is not on the verge of civil war – at least not yet. But make no mistake: the risk of the country – and its military – splintering is very real, as Yanukovich’s decision to sack Volodymyr Zamana, the head of the armed forces, attests. The conflict needs to be stopped now.
To achieve that, Ukraine needs a transitional government of experts and a new constitution that returns the country to the system that prevailed until a decade ago, with power divided between Parliament and the president. Moreover, a presidential election should be held within three months, with a new parliament voted in soon after.
But Yanukovich has shown that he does not want a negotiated solution. Until the recent surge in violence, it seemed that dialogue might defuse tensions. An amnesty for detained protesters was offered, and protesters agreed to withdraw from government buildings. But when demonstrators fulfilled their promise and evacuated occupied buildings, Yanukovich resorted to force in an effort to end the protests altogether.
Indeed, the police began firing into crowds of demonstrators, and have reportedly killed at least 70 and injured hundreds more. Hospitals are overflowing, and many people are avoiding state clinics, because they are afraid of being detained – or worse. The activist Yuri Verbitsky, a mathematical physicist, was abducted by five men in late January from a Kyiv hospital, where he had gone to seek treatment after being injured by a stun grenade at a demonstration. Verbitsky’s battered body was found the next day in a forest outside the city.
Any prospect for resolving the crisis ultimately depends on regaining citizens’ trust in their police and security forces, which are now viewed by many as an occupying force. To reestablish the public’s confidence, there can be no impunity for those who fired bullets or gave the orders to fire. Officials’ excessive use of force, and the government’s reliance on semi-criminal thugs (known as titushki) to attack protesters, must be thoroughly investigated.
But, even as the ongoing violence makes such an investigation all the more urgent, Ukraine’s prosecutor and courts refuse to act. That is why it is crucial that a high-level international mission – comprising civil-society leaders, the Council of Europe, and the European Union – launch a comprehensive inquiry and pressure Ukraine’s government to cooperate.
The EU and the United States have introduced diplomatic sanctions since the latest round of murderous violence began. This should include a travel ban not only on all officials who ordered, oversaw, or implemented the crackdown, but also on Yanukovich’s political enablers: the oligarchs who are now sitting on the sidelines while spiriting large sums of money out of the country.
Sanctions should be lifted only when a credible investigation into the last three months of violence is permitted and a technocratic government is in place (at which point the EU and its member states should offer concrete economic assistance). Prime Minister Mykola Azarov resigned last month, ostensibly to make way for such a solution. But Yanukovich has refused to take the next step, or to commit to constitutional reforms, which largely explains the protesters’ growing frustration – and their determination to press ahead in the face of brutal repression.
There is a perception in the West that all of Ukraine’s political forces are weak, divided, and corrupt. And there are growing concerns, often fueled by sensationalist media coverage, that far-right forces are gaining the upper hand within the opposition camp. But, though such forces do exist, the vast majority of demonstrators on the Maidans across the country are ordinary people angry about abuse of power, state violence, official impunity, and corruption.
For the venal and vicious elites who have taken control of Ukraine, the real threat is these demonstrators’ perseverance, not the provocations of a radical fringe. Indeed, while I refuse to believe that Ukraine’s march to civil war is unstoppable, I also know that our citizens will never be silenced again.
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Military intervention by...Poland and Belarus after the anarchy becomes unbearable.
"The vicious venal elites who have taken control of" .... (fill in the blank)
to all the hot Ukrainian chicks who want to bail an ugly situation I got a bed for ya
People getting shot by snipers in Kiev
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd7_1392895682
Who the hell is naive enough to not understand that this is all about Natural Gas Transmission between Russia, the EU, Syria, Qatar, KSA, interspersed with the Great Game between Iran, Afghanistan, the US, EU, Russia, China, et al, etc, etc, etc, all being played out as another Whoeverthefuck Spring?
Right, kinda. It's actually all about the completion of the Zionist/New World Order banking/media/political control of the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD, complete with molding the US as just another average debt/slave zone. Enjoy the ride!
Taking a page from USSA President Teleprompter’s playbook, tax police are prosecuting civil-society organizations in the hope of cowing them into silence and irrelevance.
Fixed that for ya!
Putin's Puppet Yanukovych has escaped from Kiev to Russia?
Yanukovych escaped from Kiev
Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych instructed to take out valuables from the Presidential Administration, as well as his residence in Mezhigorie. Commander in Chief of this learned from sources in the Office of the State Guard, who prepared the departure airport Gostomel Yanukovich in Kharkov.
Plane left there at 22.40.
The plane was chartered by the route Kyiv-Kharkiv-Mariupol-Russian Federation.
Administration of the President Yanukovych in his residence did not return.
Also, the source reports that the entourage of President resettled protection armored vehicles, in particular, on Toyota Land Cruiser and Mercedes transit German numbers.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&i...
Awe, too bad, now Timoshenko has to round up the Svovoboda goons.
Putin's puppet dictator jumped on a plane to avoid the protesters' deadline tomorrow and justice? The dictators are cowards.
Protesters threaten violence if Yanukovych doesn't resign now
President Viktor Yanukovych received an ultimatum from militant protesters on EuroMaidan: Resign now or else.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/politics/protesters-threaten-violence-if...
Good luck defending "your" parliament tomorrow.
It's all over the minute the Olympic flame is moved back to Greece and the international camera crews are on airplaines heading home.
nyet, first chance she resumes to stealing gas and more.....
"Stealing Popcorn" utoob
TPTB:
"Bath House, we don't care how you run Amerika, as long as you run it down. Now, get to work!"
The U.S. goal in the Ukraine is simple and clear:
They want to put the Turkish troops (NATO) on the faucet of pipe with gas to Germany and all Europe.
This will give the U.S. an opportunity to firmly keep Germany and all of Europe by the throat.
After that, the U.S. may submit any big claims to Germany, as well any blackmail and fuck the whole of Europe, as they want.
I am very, very surprised that Mrs Merkel, does not understand this.
I am very, very surprised that Mrs Merkel, does not understand this.
Really? especially when you understand where she come from and who put here in office!
Think a whole number of places need a revolution and it's not just the Ukraine begging for it.
Merkel will be finished the day the Deutschemark reappears to replace the Euro with a vote in the the German parliament to disolve their membership in the EU. By that stage the U.S. military will make something wonderful happen through one of it's many "wonderful" HQs in that host Country it's been occupying since 1945!
Do you think, that Berlin is advantageous if Washington will hold in your hands tap on the gas pipeline in Germany?
Or do you think, that it is beneficial personally for Merkel?
Or do you think, that Deutschemark or
sympathy of Washington
can replace Russian gas
for German industry?
Those are the "jewels in the crown".
In answering your question(s) they both are acheivable without Washington and the EU's "assistance"! What it will mean to Washington and the EU if Germany ever decided to pursue it's own interests outside of the EU charter is clear.
Wake me up when those two things happen without Washington/EU interference.
Currency euro was created not to counterbalance the Russian ruble, but in counterbalance to the U.S. dollar.
If Merkel plays in favor of the United States, then all European citizens - it is U.S. slaves, who have temporary freedom.
Europe cannot give Ukraine anything other than unemployment ...
US already has all of Germany's gold. What do we care about gas?
We sold all their Au to the ChiComs.
For those who missed the most important ZH article on this whole "Ukraine" issue, here it is again...
A Map of Russian gas supplied to Europe via Ukraine.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-20/ukraine-situation-explained-one...
The temptation to reduce this to a single variable is understandable, but that's not the whole story here. If Russia and Ukraine had legitimate governments that respected the rights of their people, none of this would be happening.
Pipelines can be relocated. Entire nations of people can't. When you push people too far in their own home, this is what you get. My guess is Putin and Co. see this as a threat toi their own survival. It happened once there already, recall. It wouldn't take much for it to happen again since the same conditions exist in Russia as in Ukraine.
I'm not saying nefarious forces aren't attempting to manipulate the situation - that's clearly true of both sides - but that wouldn't be possible without the conditions that gave rise to the protests in the first place.
All these revolutions you're seeing, regardless of their outcomes, have their roots in people's desire to be free from corruption and government abuse. The hidden ground here is the internet. People all over the world are now aware of what's happening in other places and are noting the similarities to their own situation. The old divide and conquer of pitting one nationality, class or race against another is crumbling as more and more ordinary people see the commonality of their plight.
Forget pipelines. This looks more like a tax revolt to me. People world-wide are tired of being extorted by big government and their rich friends. As the saying goes, "when you have nothing left to lose, you lose it." Expect more of the same in the years ahead.
Let's that thesis to the test, shall we?
If that your hypothesis is correct, then Civil Uprisings should be happening in all kinds of places around the globe -- and not just in the oil/gas producing countries, or the countries transporting them or hoping to (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Turkey, Ukraine, Venezuela).
Don't kid yourself, this a turf war between two energy & currency cartels and their Eurasian customers: The US/Saudi side, vs. the Russian/Iranian side.
If the US loses the energy war, the USD is finished as a GRC (Global Reserve Currency), because of Europe's shift from Saudi Oil (priced in USD) to NatGas (priced in EUR). At $8/gal for gas, the Europeans drive gas misers or use Biodiesel. Seen any VW or BMW adds lately, with their 45+ mpg cars? Obama, the Fed and the Saudis are getting increasingly desperate. Especially if the British (BP), Dutch (Shell) and French oil companies come to terms with the Russians -- which leaves the US Big Oil (Exxon, Chevron...) out in the cold.
p.s. Check out the ranking of the world's largest oil & gas companies:
http://www.petrostrategies.org/Links/Worlds_Largest_Oil_and_Gas_Companie...
Remember, when all else fails, follow the money trail and global geo-political interests for earth's resources and markets.
"If that your hypothesis is correct, then Civil Uprisings should be happening in all kinds of places around the globe"
I just mentioned two: Thailand and Occupy WS. I'll add Brazil, and even Venezuela to that list, because while Venezuela IS an oil producer, it has only one natural market: the USA. Then there are the multiple civil uprisings in China which you never hear about - all of them driven by govt. corruption.
Correlation is not causation. That is not to discount that there IS a battle being waged over resources. That's clearly the case. But to dismiss the Ukrainian (or any other uprising) on that basis alone, is an oversimplification.
I'm going to partially break mufti and mention that I spent 10 years working for oil majors on the downstream side. I'm no expert, but I'm no novice either, and IMO the Ukrainian pipelines aren't that significant. There are alternate routes, but even those aren't that important since no matter who controls Ukraine, Russian gas will still flow west through their territory on mutually agreeable terms. Such is the nature of business, even between old enemies.
As for the various Arab Revolutions, yes oil is a big factor, but don't overlook the fact that most of these countries are either Dictatorships or Medieval Theocracies. I'll stick with my thesis that once you've seen how the other side lives (internet and western media in general) there's no turning back. That's the material side, but there's also a growing movement to reform Islam along modern, secular lines, just as happened with Christianity some 300 years ago. That struggle is at least as important as who controls the oil.
I also don't see any real challenge to the US dollar nexus. All currencies are being debased, and wishful thoughts aside, no one is going to back their currency with gold because the same thing will happen as it did under Bretton Woods. Gold will leave the country (China, Russia, whoever) and they'll eventually have to close shop.
Finally, I'm honestly surprised at the way people here (of all places) assume that legitimate uprisings against corrupt governments are somehow manufactured for the benefit of TPTB, and that they don't stem from the same underlying causes as the domestic corruption so often reported on ZH.
Well stated, ebear.
"If that your hypothesis is correct, then Civil Uprisings should be happening in all kinds of places around the globe"
Not to put too fine a point on it but:
Poland, Hungary, Romania, the Baltic States, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia.
Any serious oil or gas producers on that list?
or was it just the utter corruption and decay of a failed Ideology?
Nice series of posts...
Whoa! Down votes, from the Pipeline Fan Club, no doubt.
Occupy Wall Street was all about pipelines too, right?
How about Thailand?
"Occupy Wall Street was all about pipelines too, right?
How about Thailand?"
How about: Britain, Greece and Bosnia?
Does this condition exist today?..."legitimate governments that respected the rights of their people".
Not so much, hence the uprisings.
So according to your logic the lack of uprisings in USSA, UK, Japan, India et al. is because of .gov's accountability and transparency?
Cog-dis much?
Dad, tell me, color revolution in America - is that possible?
- No, my son, this is impossible.
Dad, but why?
- Because America - is the only one country in the world, in the territory of which, there is no U.S. embassy.
Hit the nail(s) on the head, knux.
By the By, I just picked up chip #14.
Carry on.
if you are so clever so tell us what is situation going to be in 1 week time, so we can confirm that since now you are her majesty fortuneteller
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162181/Ukrainian-Swedish-women-...
Swedish and Ukrainian women supposedly the prettiest. I think some of the other women in the Baltics are quite nice as well. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
Sad about the Ukraine.
walking around in poland nearly killed me, every other woman you see was an 8 at least.
One of the few benefits of getting older, I've noticed, is that more and more women appear beautiful to me - even the plain ones that I wouldn't have given a second glance in my youth.
Many years ago, when I was single and cruised the bars and nightclubs, I noticed that women often travel in pairs - the pattern most often being plain one, pretty one. The pretty ones got most of the attention of course, but not from me. I developed a strategy to make the pretty ones squirm a bit: ask the plain girl to dance, buy her a drink, focus all my attention on her, and when the pretty one tried to assert herself, politely but quickly shift my attention back to the plain one. I wasn't trying to get laid - just evening out what I saw as a lopsided situation by giving the plain girls a boost. Warning: if you try this, do NOT under any circumstances go home with the pretty one. That's just cruel.
"The older you get, the better they look."
--LC55
Almost anything female under 30 is HOT.
i cant imagine a looser giving like to your post :)
I know of Swedish men who passed on Swedish women because they are extreme feminists.
Don't leave out Hungarian chicks. My first was a Hungarian, and my daughter is a man-magnet.
Cherchez les femmes!
The NeoCON shill Bystrytsky needs to wipe Brzezinski's jizz off lips before spouting such intellectually biased crap.
20 minutes with Stephen Cohen (who I normally can't stand, and whose wife I might shoot on sight) is a better investment of time than 5 minutes with Project Syndicate's trash
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37701.htm
How about this:
"In fact, Yanukovich’s government seems prepared to use any and all measures to remain in power."
Isn't Bystrytsky a Jew? That would explain his CHUZPAH.
I'm sure, that if in the US "protesters" would burn down police stations and universities, and shoot policemen, that the peace nobel laureate in the WH would have called the army and shot every person nearby them. And rightfully so. And I would have ordered as president of the Ukraine the same!
This shows, how these Zionist liars shamelessly turn upside down. The mistake of Yanukhvich obviously was, that he did NOT act.
This is the proove, that the Globalists understand only one single language: FORCE and POWER. Any considerateness, any tolerance is turned into an "agression" anyway. So why the hesitation and lose control of the situation? If Yanukavich would have spoken immediately with the same language the Western plutocrats use all over the world, too, he quickly would have destroyed this CIA regime change efforts.
Indeed, Globalists treasure only the Wealth & Privileges of Power, the Currency of Force, and the Language of Deception. They seek Full-Spectrum Dominance, no matter the timeline or cost to humanity or the planet.
And they might as well worship the Fallen One, if they don't already.
Well, after all, we are just cattle to Them.
ok mate, you talk right and averything, but you have never lived in sach shitty country yourself, so maybe its correct then to accept for a while, that you can find few 1000 people ready to die...
Do you believe, that with gay marriage, mass immigration from Africa and Asia, gender mainstreaming, paedophilia, sexualization of little children and anti family propaganda for your chilrden, while they are fed with GMO food, with the corruption of the EUSSR and wars for Zionist interests all over the world under the twelve yellow stars things will become better for the Ukrainians?!
You already had Western puppets, have you forgotten?
Do you really believe, politicians seeking such support, living abroad and being millionaires, will bring any good to the Ukrainian people:
http://rafzen.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/kliczko-lubawicz-kaczynski-and/
If you have a shitty country, then you must solve the problems on your own and not opening it to the enemies of all souvereign nations!
Do you really believe that the +50% youth unemployment rates in Greece and Spain are paradise? Do you believe the US sheeple with two or three shitty jobs do have a life worth living? Do you really believe, that a regime creating the highest use of drugs, the most incarcerations per capita, the most obese people and the worst average education with the daily war of the multicultural "paradise" in the schools, but with the highest bonuses for the "elite" is worth to strive for?
Yes. Us americans need to talk about what kind of system Ukraine needs. You see, ours has worked out so well for the majority of our population.
"a technocratic government is in place (at which point the EU and its member states should offer concrete economic assistance)"
Technocrats. Bullshit.
Axe anyone in Greece about those helpful EU-NWO technocrats.
Code for JP Morgan and Goldman lending a helping hand.
Bingo was his name-oh...
Yevhen Bystrytsky is a member of the Governing Council of European Foundation Centre, as an executive director of Ukrainian International Renaissance Fund. Can you guess which NWO zealot is IRF founded and financed by without clicking this link?
Here's some more on EFC that confirms GoldenDonuts' statement above: "Established in 1989, the European Foundation Centre (EFC) is an international membership association of foundations and corporate funders. In 23 years our membership has grown steadily from an initial group of 7 founding members to 231."
Gee, kinda makes you wonder whom ABC Media, LTD bows to...
Can we interest you in some of our latest financial products? MBS, CDS? We just conjured some up (out of thin air).
Here, have some. We INSIST.
"a technocratic government is in place (at which point the EU and its member states should offer concrete economic assistance)"
You mean such economic assistance, which was provided by the EU for Cyprus?
If it's useful to the worlds sociopaths it will be saved, otherwise - it won't be.
Beside, if this is just another ethnic war, it might be best to let the males fight things out and let each ethnic group pick their ethnic sociopaths to lead them to greater glory.
The media has declared that that the EU are the rightful claimants to victory, while the truth is the Ukraine has a choice -- ally itself with an entity that has oil or ally itself with an entity that has printed paper.
Putin should just start squeezing the spigots closed and tell the EU to go away.
You realize that 80% of Russian oil exports are via pipeline...
Vladdie's hands are tied, all the EU has to do is sit back and wait...
It would take years and billions of dollars to divert those flows towards China.
Putin is a Russian version of Mobuto Sese Seko, as long as he and his cronies can skim off billions and he is not forced to lose face, he will do nothing....
He has no agenda but to solidfy his hold on Russia so as to milk it for all it is worth....
It might take years to divert to China, but once it is diverted, it will never go back to the EU. And in the meantime, the EU returns to the Dark Ages - literally.
My watch says its 2014 right now (linked source sux but it's succinct). The EU isn't going back to the dark ages, unless they start a war with Russia (but the EU will also not have the same freedom to throw turds in the punch bowl this time next year).
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-15-oil-and-gas-pipelines-changing-the...
Good link.. but most of those pipelines are gas and are still pointed at Europe....
Putin has moved himself into a corner, by giving Russias biggest joker away: the secret papers about the Holohoax. Putin has alliied with Israel and decided to knock down the Russian nationalists. He decided to back up the Bolshevik lie about the Red Army as liberator.
This lie, btw, is the reason why he will lose Ukraine. The responsible persons of the REAL Holocaust, the Holodomor, have never been prosecuted. The Ukrainians therefore hate the Russians.
Putin is trapped in the lies. If he would have decided to ally with the truth, with the Ukrainians they could have investigated the Holodomor. Putin would have been able to tell the Russians and the Ukrainians, that it was not committed by Russians, but mostly by the Jewish comissars of the USSR, a slaughtering of Christians, of the goyim, of cattle. That would have allowed the beginning a true understanding and enduring peace between these two nations.
And according to the Zionists, he easily could have played the Holo-card: if you do continue to encircle or threaten Russia, I can also release a few secret papers about Auschwitz...
He would have them by the balls.
But he decided to ally with the lies. And now Russia is trapped. And the Zionists will encircle Russia and with the next Russian president, they will slowly gain control over Russia again.
Putin is a Zionist and always will be. You don't get to steal 80 Billion without being part of the club.
And I always thought you were merely acting stupid for effect...
Silly me....
Well, also non-Zionists can steal, but this is indeed a very interesting thought. That the Zionist media are so silent about it, while they crucify politicians they cannot blackmail, if they have not payed a bill correctly, is strange indeed.
Even more, since this would be great ammunition against Putin IN Russia.
The question also is, are these numbers and claims correct? Or are they invented to discredit Putin in the eyes of the western sheeple?
Behind each major evil in the world is a Khazar.
(Putin) has no agenda but to solidfy his hold on Russia so as to milk it for all it is worth....
And only America has the power, diplomatic savvy and moral authority to stop this man.
Go Team USA! Go FREEDOM!!
That's some serious trolling...
Can we see your license?
August, Sind sie bescheuert?
And yes, I do recognize your avatar as a JPG of Angela Merkel.
hey, you left off the sarc/tag.
"It would take years and billions of dollars to divert those flows towards China. "
Chinese can build any gas and oil pipelines from Russia to China, faster than you can spit.
I do not know how all it will end. But I know exactly, that for Europe, all it will end very badly.
and that exatly is the problem of ukraine so far in history, they simply want to be independent, to be free, because other outside powers have so far not only always sucked fruit of their labor, but also killed them by milions recently, tihis was happening every single day on ukraine fo past 100 years
Neither Putin or Merkel are going to allow a war in the Ukraine...
Neither of them can afford it.
Ah, but neither had much say in it either.
Not publicly...
The civil war part is wanted by people safely esconced across the seas,,,
I don't think the people across the seas would benefit from a higher price for oil. But there is a cartel to the south of this fracas that would...
It's now a Cage Match between Vlad and the Vampire Squid!
I dont believe Ukraine is the 'powder keg' we are looking for...
.
A crisis/war in the middle east...were civilization started, draws in everyone
- thats the rub for 'them.'
I Concur - Japan, North Korea, Taiwan, & Iran are the wild swans waiting to turn Black
I'm sure this is right up Brzezinski's alley since he's always obsessed with encircling Russia. I'm more confused with the very recent announcements by Germany *and* Russia to pull funding. I can't see how that would help stability at all.
Merkel, "How many divisions has (s)he got"
so you think some of them or both at the same time can control the crowd now?
"Neither Putin or Merkel are going to allow a war in the Ukraine...
Neither of them can afford it."
What about Obama?
"Can Ukraine Be Saved?"
Not by Barry and Lurch it can't!
We don't even know exactly who Cohn/Kerry and Bath House and his 14 SocSec numbers are working for.
We just know it is not for US.
I think Vladimir Putin is going to stir up the Saudi Shiite majority and cause instability in Saudi Arabia if the US furthers instability in Ukraine. Russia won't let Ukraine out of its sphere of influence any more than the USA would let Saudi Arabia out of its sphere of influence.
Putin has already started in SA.
Bandar is out, maybe with extreme prejudice.
SA is running on fumes from its oilfields and will need that production domestically soon.
The prize is Iranian oil gotten peacefully.
SA will be discarded like a used condom,. and relieved of their gold
in due course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjB8z0Bvi14
....with extreme prejudice.
Spoken to Capt. Willard by the kindly El See Eye Ahh Dah man.
SA is running on fumes from its oilfields and will need that production domestically soon.
The prize is Iranian oil gotten peacefully.
SA will be discarded like a used condom,. and relieved of their gold
in due course.
Yup. And those evil House of Saud scum bags deserve all the bad karma that Vlad will hopefully throw on them. The USA is done with the Saudis. The State Dept/ El See Eye Ah Dah part of the police state.
Absolutely hilarious....
Putin will have more than his hands full dealing with the Ukraine which is poised to split like an overripe melon...
I could swear that Simon Black was on here last year talking up the great opportunities in Ukraine...
Maybe he was referring to AK-47 sales?
Maybe Simon is running Ukrainian chicks. He has to be getting $$$ from somewhere.
The only great opportunity there would be to get a gorgeous chick for wife...
Hot bodies, COLD hearts.
Long live the Ukraine people. Replace your government with open source software before it is too late.
They could have our constitution as we aren't using it right now.
dont lie to your self, you have never been using it
Reposted from an earlier thread:
Everyone has seen that movie, it's called Jugo something
Putin was not backing down on Syria either. He had 8 Russian navy ships with state of the art missiles. The message got back to the clueless NWO Obama loving ***ks at The Pentagon.
The same MIC stooges pushing and backing the worthless F-35 clusterf**k.
My guess is the Russians told the Pentagon - bad idea to attack Syria.
Freddie, you are truly a simplistic clown when it comes to all this...
Obama wanted chemical weapons out of play, he got it while expending zero treasure and spilt blood...
He enabled Putin throw Assad under the bus in a way that Putin could save face....
And yes, the F-35 is waste of money aimed at fighting the last war, that point I will give you...
BTW, remind us when was the last time that the Russians tried to project power outside their immediate sphere of influence...
C'mon give us a history lesson... We are all ears...
You actually believe that Obama wanted chemical weapons out of play? Not only has Washington has allowed them to be used in the past without lifting a finger, the evidence suggests that it was the rebels who used the weapons, not Assad. Assad is still in power, which is a far cry from being thrown under the bus.
Of course the US wanted chemical weapons off the table, letting people use them with impunity sets a dangerous precedent...
And citing an RT report as your evidence, you have got to be joking... That is almost like referring to Pravda for reporting on the Cuban missle crises....
Do you really think that US wanted to remove Assad and create an uncertain power vacuum? Now that would be truly stupid....
Who would the US back? Only asshats like McCain were calling for arming the rebels and he couldn't even name the factions to arm...
Poisoning the well, I see. And you are still ignoring that we've let others use chemical weapons with impunity in the past.
Oh, do please go on...That is twice that you have claimed it to be so, the floor is yours...
IIRC, last time I saw Chemical Ali, he was swinging from a rope...
Ask the Kurds about it. Also, ask the Iranians. We did nothing to prevent those and the invasions of Iraq happened, in both instances, long after the weapons had been used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
And the first gulf war had zero to do with that. I would find it quite entertaining were you to try to prove otherwise.
Again, the first gulf war had NOTHING to do with the use of chemical weapons, and we also knew that they were going to be used, yet we did nothing.
But, since you don't trust RT, how about the NY Times?
Very good...
Now compare and contrast the Iran-Iraq war, quite possibly the 4th bloodiest conflict of the 20th century (for combatants) where chemicals were used in battle field conditions against combatants with shelling civilian neighborhoods in urban areas with gas shells...
I absolutely agree that the ball was dropped vis a vis the Kurds, but that was a different adminstration that clearly had different priorities. The real lesson to take from this is that Ronnie's and Rumsfeld, not to mention Bush Sr.'s, hands were pretty fucking dirty, eh? Especially taking into account Iran-Contra...
And yes, the first Gulf War had nothing to do with chemical weapons...Never meant to imply it did, but the fuckers involved still hung...
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And however you want to spin it, it would appear that chemical weapons are off the table in Syria. Would you not agree that is a good thing and the price to pay for it was piddling...
That is the real issue...
If you're dead, you're dead. I don't see why it is any different when it is a chemical weapon vs being gut shot and taking 3 days to die. I think it would have been a much, much better idea if we hadn't been in there agitating shit in the first place, and we were in there agitating shit.
And Obama is not innocent either:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-25/military-intervention-syria-us-...
Sorry, but claiming chemical weapons use in Syria was the reason we wanted to bomb them is like claiming that it really was your license plate light being out that got you pulled over when the cop is pressuring you to let him search your vehicle.
My fuck, nobody, except hawks like McCain wanted to bomb Syria, and even then it isn't clear that he wasn't just politicking...
And I was starting to think you had a clue....
The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.
Read the emails that are on wiki leaks. We were planning on taking Syria down at least as far back as 2011 (before the chemical weapons were used,) and likely further back. There are no good guys in this. Only bad guys, and we're one of them. If the past decade hasn't taught you that, no matter who is in office, your government is a lying pit of vipers, I don't know what will.
Hint: filed away somewhere there are plans to take take everybody down, its what military types do to pass time...
For example: Gulf War I had been wargamed and simulated for years before the real deal. How many simulations of the Fulda Gap were carried out?
And for shits and giggles, please tell me of all the people in power public or private, who isn't a lying viper...
No, no, read the emails. We had people IN SYRIA in 2011 training the rebels. We weren't just planning on it, we were ACTING on those plans back then.
This kind of shit has been going on for thousands of years in one form or another...
There is always a top dog and he likes to knows what is going on. Do you know that standard of living you enjoy is because of all that meddling? If the US become isolated, the standard of living would drop 50% percent, easily and very quickly... The high standard of living the US has enjoyed is a direct consequence of becoming a global power. You are aware that the US has been a net importer of oil since 1947?
You are acting as if in denial about the human condition. Seriously, do you think everything can be tied into net little packages and compartmentalized?
So unless you got a magic wand, this kind of shit is the price you pay for a globally connected civilization...
As for Syria, having maybe 20 guys teaching kids how to reload AK-47s is nothing in the grand scheme of things...
I understand full well what would happen if the US lost its ability to import oil overnight would be, and that is why I am glad I don't live on either coast and why I believe that necessities should be produced locally. I think that Malthus is going to be vindicated. He just got the timing wrong. And if you read the emails, you'll find that perhaps what they were planning on doing in Syria is what almost has happened, i.e. they started a civil war and destablized the country with the intent to bring about collapse within. Everything except for the collapse from within has happened, and it is not over yet.
So, you agree that chemical weapons were only the excuse?
That is my story and I am sticking to it. It fits the known facts the best...
You are entitled to your opinion though...
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Good exchange, once upon a time this was pretty standard here...
You are entitled to your opinion. Not your own facts. You avoided my question. So, you agree that chemical weapons were only the excuse?
Beg pardon, exactly what facts that I dispute? That the CIA had contact with various rebels in 2011? Or that subterfuge has been going on for even longer?
Sorry, thats the CIA, KGB etc... etc... do, like it or not.., Do I think the CIA/whatever instigated anything significant that wasn't going to happpen? No....
BTW, once again, you are trying to distill a complex world down to a simple question. It is rarely that simple...
Do I think that Saudia Arabia and others have different visions for Syria, hell, yes, but that is not what we are discussing...
Since everyone thinks Putin was playing chess, well, to use a chess term, any even handed take would conclude that the US gained a tempo....
Different administration? Yeh, that explains it. They all do what they are told.
Things change over 30 years...
In case you don't remember the Warsaw Pact was still operational then...
Yes, and some things remain the same.
"Now compare and contrast the Iran-Iraq war, quite possibly the 4th bloodiest conflict of the 20th century (for combatants) where chemicals were used in battle field conditions against combatants with shelling civilian neighborhoods in urban areas with gas shells..."
- Remind me please, what is the name the only country in the world, which has twice use nuclear weapons against the civilian population of two peaceful cities?
- Remind me please, what is the name the only country in the world, which has regularly used chemical weapons in Vietnam and now regularly uses the weapons of the uranium core?
- Remind me please name of the organization, which led to goverment power in Iran, chemical Ali and also created Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda?
Yep, blowback is bitch and the US has become a war mongering empire.... What exactly is your point?
Do you think that if the US didn't exist that things would be really any different? It's called the power game and there are always a few that get the itch... It's in our genes...
Only because he got sideways with us. Use the chembio stuff all you want as long as you tow the line.
Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen what's so different about Syria? You couldn't be suggesting that all the king's horses' asses and hoes (as well as Obozo himself) could be THAT stupid about how the world actually works, and fuck up that badly that many times in a row, so many years into his presidency.
Now look who is trolling...
It really isn't your style..
No it's not my desired style (except when troll bashing myself), but you really seemed to be coming out of right field with "Do you really think that US wanted to remove Assad and create an uncertain power vacuum? Now that would be truly stupid...." The leviathan has different factions and motivations, but the #winning faction, up until Syria, would appear to be the power vacuum faction with Powers and Rice serving as (mediocre) eye candy while the really ugly men do their thing behind the scenes for their own reasons.
Or is he is coming out of left field?
Didn't our man Saddam use chemical weapons against the Kurds? Only the US or are agents can use such force without impunity?
Whose the clown?
growing stalinizm in russia is fighting growing banksterizm in west, whatta fucking reality show, except for ukrainian people
this situation is far more "breathtaking" than anything you'll see in Sochi...that's fer sure.
War is not a "competition."
That "militant fringe" might be small...but by definition "all militant fringes are small."
And of course they exist to provoke.
That says to me a violent "spasm" has to be considered a possibility here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1WT-Imiu3E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br3-uF6ZrYY
"Ukraine needs a transitional government of experts" you say?
Why, yes, send in the Vampire Squid.
Problem solved.
The squid will transition Ukraine into a Greece of the east in no time.
After today agreement any sign of vilolence will be a big problem for EU/US overlords.
I say good luck, you fooockerz!
This will mean your guys are not able to keep promises. Bad!
Who can trust you, even if ashton, barroso, steinmeier are there. Do you trust klitschko, yats, arsenic?
Goooood luck, fuckerz!
already deplyed 20 years ago, send smtngh stronger
Ukraine is game to you!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw
Interesting story, fact or fiction? Who's to say, I'll leave that to the reader to decide/decipher.
"Note - We cannot certify the veracity of this email but it fits numerous similar reports.
"This message comes from “Alex” a contact inside of Russia. From the very start of Euromaydan each team leader of the "neo-Nazi" Right Wing Sector, RWS, receives a cash reward (for each active fighter for $ 200 per day and an additional $ 500 if the group is over 10 people; group coordinators - from U.S. $ 2,000 per day of riots, provided that controlled group performs direct offensive action against law enforcement officials and representatives of public authorities ) .
The cash for RWS flows from the U.S. Embassy in Kiev [through diplomatic channels] to the central offices of the "neo-Nazi" Freedom Party [leader - Tyagnibok-Frotman, half-Jew] and "Fatherland" party [leaders - Jewess Julia Kapitelman-"Timoshenko", Jew Arseniy Jacenyuk, from the family of Rabbis]: about $ 20 million per week; PRIVATBANK of the Jewish tycoon Igor Kolomoisky is the main part of this financial backing [Kolomoisky is the main financial backer of Frotman` Freedom party and Bandera-Stetzko-Shukhevich` Organization of the Ukrainian Nationalists]. In turn, these funds are distributed for the support of Euromaydan/RWS - for daily payments to active fighters, for bribes, drugs, weapons, Molotov cocktails etc. RWS leaders receive money by bank transfers on their personal accounts in Kolomoisky` Jewish PRIVATBANK. It is confirmed also, main financial backer of RWS is another Jewish tycoon Poroshenko; some assume, RWS is simply Poroshenko` private army. Interestingly, in 2006 already the future militants of RWS were taught special forces` and guerrilla` warfare in Estonia by NATO military instructors.
The main political backer of Euromaydan in the USA is the Jewess Victoria Nuland.
Btw - here: Jewish MP from the Fatherland Party Sergey Pashinsky with a sniper rifle in his car: presumably he shoots both at Berkut Riot police` guys [REAL ARYAN HEROES!] and RWS "rebels" - typically Jewish false flag` mode of operations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?noredirect=1&v=kl6RUgAMaiA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dkl6RUgAMaiA%26noredirect%3D1&app=desktop
However, it was confirmed, Ukrainian "far-Right" leaders, at their request, received firm guarantees from the USA and EU for an emergency evacuation from the territory of Ukraine, and the provision of accommodation and facilities in any EU country [a vivid examples are the Avtomaydan` leader Sergey Koba, who escaped to Germany, and Spilna sprava` chief Aleksandr Danylyuk, who lives in London already].
Yes, RWS` rank-and-file` militants are presumably Jew-haters - likewise, Libyan and Syrian Western-Wahhabi-Israeli backed "rebels". At any rate, generally the Ukrainian war is in the same pattern as the wars in Libya and Syria. NB: RWS` heroes are Syrian "rebels", RWS hoists Free Syria` flag together with Bandera` one. As the American blockhead John Friend writes in the recent issue of American Free Press, "Nationalism is on the rise in Ukraine". Aha. And this naive idiot is the staff writer now for AFP, although Michael Collins Piper was sacked recently.
John Friend` Ukrainian favorites have NO allies among the Slavonic Nationalists, but collaborate closely with Meir Kahane` types
http://isradem.com/
As my buddy Manuel Ochsenreiter tells during our Victory Hour podcast - after Ukraine next frontlines for THEM will be Byelorussia and Russia. Jewish\American-backed "far Rightists" are ready, already
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/09/russian-nationalism-challenge-putin-power
All the best from Evil Empire,
Alex
WELL JUST UNDERSTAND THAT NATIONALISM ONLY ARISES WHEN NATION IS IN DANGER AND EVERYTHINGi s going to be alright
"Taking a page from Russian President Vladimir Putin’s playbook, tax police are prosecuting civil-society organizations in the hope of cowing them into silence and irrelevance."
Whose playbook?
I am sure Vladimir Putin and not some Hawaian Kenyan wrote it.
Sounds like the IRS and the US Attorney General going after conservative groups...
And, Jim Clyburn's daughter is now head of the Press Police.
Bath House appoints him to FCC, he immediately hires his daughter to run over the local media.
Hey, Ukraine, you think you got crooks?
Its over, Ukraine is finished.
Demographically speaking, they are indeed exiting from the stage, it is just taking a while. Dismal birthrates since decades on end
Stating that "the vast majority of demonstrators on the Maidans across the country are ordinary people angry about abuse of power, state violence, official impunity, and corruption."
And at the same time call for "the Council of Europe, and the European Union – launch a comprehensive inquiry".
How stupid or ignorant can you be.
Ukraine protesters = useful idiots. The terms of their settlement do nothing. They would still be attached to the central banking ponzi scheme, so nothing will change. As each day goes by I get the feeling that Klitschko is a corporatist disguised as a populist. The real reasons for poverty are clear: inequality, central banking, war-profiteering, and none of that is being addressed. Just political window dressing.