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Two Russian Warships Enter Black Sea Through Bosphorus; Another Docks In Cuba
Russia may be awaiting a diplomatic resolution of the Ukraine crisis, but we wouldn't hold our breath especially with the deposed president Yanukovich set to conduct a press conference tomorrow from Russia's Rostov-on-Don at 5pm local time, where we hardly anticipate a scaling back of the escalation in what is sure to not be an abdication from power. Instead, Putin continues to prepare for the worst and is openly signalling to the West that if he has to fight to regain influence in the Ukraine, he will, as a top Kremlin politician warned last week. As such it was not surprising to read that two Russian warships, the Minsk and the Kaliningrad which last week were sent out on deployment around Syria, crossed back into the Black Sea, most likely in direction Sevastopol, as the build up of Russian forces in the Crimea continues.
From Bosphorus Nabal News:
Today, two Ropucha class landing ship from Russian Navy passed through Bosphorus returning from their Syrian deployment. As the political crisis in Ukraine particular in Crimea is increasing it is possible that Russian Navy wanted these valuable assets closer to home.
Large landing ship Minsk passing through Bosphorus. Photo: seabreeze.org.ua via webcam.
And in other more perplexing news, AFP reported that a Russian warship was docked in Havana Wednesday, without explanation from Communist Cuba or its state media. "The Viktor Leonov CCB-175 boat, measuring 91.5 meters (300 feet) long and 14.5 meters wide, was docked at the port of Havana's cruise ship area, near the Russian Orthodox Cathedral.
The Vishnya, or Meridian-class intelligence ship, which has a crew of around 200, went into service in the Black Sea in 1988 before it was transferred seven years later to the northern fleet, Russian media sources said.
Neither Cuban authorities nor state media have mentioned the ship's visit, unlike on previous tours by Russian warships.
The former Soviet Union was Cuba's sponsor state through three decades of Cold War. After a period of some distancing under former Russian president Boris Yeltsin, the countries renewed their political, economic and military cooperation.
The ship is reportedly armed with 30mm guns and anti-aircraft missiles.
The Mail adds that The intelligence vessel bristles with electronic eavesdropping equipment and weaponry, including AK-630 rapid-fire cannons and surface-to-air missiles.
Why is Russia planting a spy ship in the US backyard? It might have something to do with John Kerry's earlier admonition that the US is now behaving like a "poor nation" - maybe Russia decided to test just how poor?
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Well yeah, it's the Crimea we're talking about here... not some distant third world shithole...
If Ukraine becomes pro-west, it enters NATO... and Russia is backed into a corner... leading to nuclear war down the line.
Vladimir Sese Seko Putin doesn;t care as long as he not made to look foolish and the skimmed profits continue to accrue to him....
It's not what is on the surface that should concern us, it's those boomers laying offshore listening to american rock n' roll.
is everyone here still living in 1980? boomer? what boomer? egad wake up and smell the rusty mothballz bitchez.
I just up voted you
1957 Pontiac????
The only way to make it stop is to show the American people what fucking cowards they "truly" are!
Who gives a fuck. Let Europe fight for Europe. They've done it hundreds of times in the past... they can do it again.
if you know anything of war after the creation of central banks you would know the moneychangers have gotten us into the European wars ignoring our Founding Fathers warnings not to become "entangled"
who gives a fuck ?
Pax Americana ! It runs the world and therefore has its finger in EVERY PIE !
The Globe and Mail reported that "gunmen" had siezed some govt building in Crimea. I assumed the gunmen were pro-western Ukrainians but it turned out the "gunmen" were Russians. Fucking MSM run by G-d damned NWO lackies.
Almost looks like the USS Liberty. The irony.
PS: Beware of Israeli jets overhead.
speaking of the Israelis, look for them to take the opportunity to do some more defensive bombing in Syria and/or Lebanon in the coming days and weeks.
I doubt they are all 'missiles being sent to Hezbollah' but I don't doubt the Israelis plan to reinvade Lebanon again. And the IDF sure doesn't like facing an enemy that can defend itself.
These air strikes have nothing to do with defending Israel and everything to do with degrading Hezbollah's ability to respond to Israeli air strikes.
Is there anyone, not a moron or shill, who doesn't understand that "antisemitism" and "defensive" are words used to obfuscate Israeli aggression and war crimes?
Cocknballs,
Spot-on, I concur completely.
"the IDF sure doesn't like facing an enemy that can defend itself".
Anybody interested in finding out how the Israelis fared against the so-called "terrorist" Hezb'Allah, should read this old, but excellent three part series published in the Asia Times that chronicled for posterity how badly Israel had their ass handed to them by the "terrorists" the last time they invaded Lebannon.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ12Ak01.html
Care more about the car right now. If Obama was gearing up for a second term then I would be a lot more worried.
It is not those old rusty warships that are the problem. You can track those quite easily. It is what lies underneath is where the real chess match is going on.
Yeah about the claim everyone on here was linking to here last week on the Jews working with the Neo-Nazi's:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-protests-israeli-ex-officer-leads-milit...
Article has been updated to include this little tidbit:
According to unverified claims by the Iranian news channel, which was set up by the fiercely anti-Zionist Islamic regime
Great detective work fellas.
as opposed to the news we get via the "fiercely pro-zionist western fascist regimes"
let us forget that press tv has proven to be more right then wrong when compared to the pro zionist western press. competing memes is not good for the free press west. people might decipher the truth.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/crimean-parliament-dismisses-...
Crimean Parliament Dismisses Cabinet and Sets Date for Autonomy ReferendumThe Crimean parliament on Thursday voted in favor of holding a referendum on whether to expand its autonomy and passed a no-confidence motion dismissing the region's government.
The referendum — set for May 25, the same day as Ukraine's presidential election — was supported by 61 out of the 64 deputies who attended Thursday's emergency session, the parliament's press office told RIA Novosti.
Crimeans will vote "yes" or "no" on whether the "Crimea has state sovereignty and is a part of Ukraine, in accordance with treaties and agreements."
Now it gets really interesting.
GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER SAYS IMPORTANT THAT UKRAINE BE GIVEN BREATHING ROOM TO STABILIZE.
Germans and their Lebensraum... must be German humor.
Great catch on the breathing room/Lebensraum.
The more things change and all...
Russians probably reminding the Germans that Russia will be the biggest car market in 2016, bigger than Germany. The Russian middle class is growing and the Germans sell and manufacture a lot of German cars in Russia.
If Putin can keep growing the Russian middle class and keep the NWO out of Russia - they will be fine.
You sound just like the stupid leftists that fell hook line and sinker for Stalin....
I wonder how many Cubans will jump on that ship and ask for refugee status....not one I bet....I think Putin needs some more tunes in his Ipod and sent this ship to steal some from the airwaves...he likes Beeber I hear...he practices his Judo with his shirt off listening to Beeber...lol....what a visual that is...
Just for your information Cuba does not allow any of its citizens to board any foreign vessel docked in Cuba. The more relevant question is how many Cuban women will be promised to be taken off the island but that will never materialize and instead they will end up with blond haired blue eyed babies.
Paging John Kerry.... Paging John Kerry...
Please report to your Swift Boat....
Russia has navy bases in Black sea. They've had them for a while.
IT IS SO FUNNY HOW PUTIN GETS YOU GUYS GOING!!
THESE SHIPS GO TO THEIR HOME BASE AND PEOPLE GET UPSET??? HAHAHAHAHHA
AN OLD SOVIET SHIP GOES TO CUBA AND PEOPLE GET UPSET??? HAHHA 14M WIDE WITH 200 CREW?
GREAT THAT WE ARE LEARNING ABOUT THESE NICE OLD SHIPS.
Hint: It's the Nucler subs under water that gets everyone going. The Russians are there somewhere under the water.
Must be working, you have your eyes locked on the old warships. Then you laugh..
Apparently this is reason enough to start selling gold at 1 pm and not stop. WTF? I thought I might make back some of the damage my miners took the past 2 days, but it looks like another free fall the rest of the afternoon.
Cuba is beautiful this time of year
Looks like Barry and Kerry are trying to make war (no terrorists left to kill) for the mid term elections.
C'mon Putin. Give Obozo a tight slap in the face and show him who's The Man.
Must be the last of the "fleet" headed to Syria... "row you bastards".
What I find weird is that NOBODY is talking about Russia changing their NUCLEAR DOCTRINE back in the 90s to lower the threshold to use tactical nuclear weapons in even wars that don't threaten Russia's existence (which Ukraine would be)... If war kicks off and Ukraine fights Russia and can stand it's own, Russia will likely start using tactical nukes... and the path that it leads to ain't pretty...
http://www.cicerofoundation.org/lectures/Marcel_H_Van_Herpen_RUSSIA_EMBR...
Maybe those tactical nukes can him Brussels.
that might be a Confederate dreadnought prototype that escaped to Cuba after the War of Northern Aggresion- I believe I see a Stars and Bars flag
That's a Russian Fed. Navy Jack, M. Villefort. Now. . . if there was also a decal of Calvin pissing on a Chevy emblem. . .all bets are off.
The Virginius was most certainly running guns to the rebels in Cuba, at the behest of a cabal of Cuban exiles in NYC (Miami didn't have a/c back then) operating with at least the acquiescence of the US Defense and Foreign Ministries. The Bay of Pigs was several rounds of "Rinse, Repeat" later.
Moscow says 31st air assault bde, moved to novorosisysk to be shipped to sebastopal.... developing
The ship in Cuba is purely symbolic. As for the others, NOTHING TO SEE HERE, just some parade floats, ,,,er....flotillas. They're about to decorate them with red, white and blue carnations
SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT.....
U.S.S.A WANTED TO INVADE SYRIA ON A FLASE FLAG, BUT RUSSIA SABATOGED THE PLAN.
RUSSIA BUILD UP NAVAL POWER NEAR SYRIA TO REPEL AMERIKA.
AMERIKA INFLAMES UKRAINE AND ACCOMPLISHES A COUP.
AMERIKA WANT TO DISTRACT RUSSIA.
RUSSIA BRINGS WAR SHIPS FROM SYRIA BACK TO BLACK SEA/CRIMEA TO RE ESTABLISH OLD GOV'T.
SYRIA IS LESS GUARDED.
HMMM.... LET ME GUESS, AMERIKA GOES AFTER SYRIA AGAIN, AND TOPPLES ASSAD...
AM I RIGHT? DO I WIN A PRIZE - LIKE SOME LEGGOS, OR PLAY DO OR SOMETHING?
"Tell the man what he wins Dave!"
"Well, doggis wins an all expense paid trip to the Ministry of Love where he will enjoy a relaxing and enlightening six months of psychological, drug induced re-education and re-programming until he has one or more psychotic breaks. He'll just love loving Big Brother!"
"Sounds like a great time Dave! Enjoy your vacation doggis! May luck always be in your favor!"
Something like that I think.
Interesting theory. We'll see, won't we.
Assad has boots and APCs, more of them are of marginal utility.
Assad also has a problem with the Israeli Air Force attacking is missile batteries et al.
The Russian guided missile cruisers (which carry non-export Russian missiles, and a truly existential threat should Bibi continue beating the war drums) in the Med do not appear to have been recalled.
I am going to repeat this (with an update) for those that may have missed it:
Syria is complete and utter shitshow, a Shia-Sunni cage match to the death. Just ask any Syrian about the town of Hama. Syria acts as the perfect magnet for militant muslims and Jihadists of every stripe.
Obama has basicially admitted, kill each other to your hearts content as we can't really stop you but I want chemical weapons off the table. And what actually happened? Obama/Kerry got Putin to acquiese to Assad giving up his chemical weapons as Putin correctly realized that Assad lost control of his chemical munitions...
And why would Putin do this?
How do you think Israel would respond to chemical munitions being lobbed in from Lebanon/Syria given the chaos in the region:
As one asute observer noted
My own take was this:
It is therefore completely reasonable to conclude that the agreement between Putin and Obama regarding the Syrian chemical weapon stockpiles and their subsequent surrender to be disposed of was in no small part driven by the above considerations.
That is pretty sharp diplomacy...
-----
Syria is a black hole and will be for the foreseeable future. Western policy is currently all about containment of the damage and fighting...Think about it? Why remove Assad, a difficult proposition at best without even considering Putin's position, when what you will have is a power vacuum with nothing but wild cards and lunatics in place to fill it? Not even W. would think it wise to try "nationbuilding" there assuming he learned anything from Iraq...
There is no one that the West (or the Saudi Sunnis) can credibly tap on the shoulder and say, we got your back but you have to hold this shitshow together...
---
I have no doubt that SA and other Sunni Gulf States would love to contain Shia influence by ousting Assad. A clear benefit woudl be the ability to build a pipeline through there. But that is what is know as projection in these circles...
completely wrong, as usual.
Regime change in Syria was desired by the neocons years ago. They even wrote papers about it. Left out of your analysis is the Saudi, Turkish, and yes Israeli support for what are indisputably terror groups who appear to have, and to have used, chemical weapons.
Including attacks blamed on Assad by the White House - but not by the intelligence community, to whom it seemed like, well - bullshit. Seymour Hersh's "Who's Sarin" is a short and decent introduction to the weakness of the evidence. You can dig further for evidence attacks were carried out by rebels precisely in order to blame Assad.
Kerry opened his big mouth about the weapons being given up. The Russians seized on this as a way to prevent the intervention the US/NATO were really hoping for, a la Libya. You're entitled to your opinion, but the vast majority of people viewed it as Kerry's folly. And that's the vast majority of people who know something about foreign policy. A club you ain't in - shilling for Israel doesn't count.
Who was talking about using chemical weapons on Israel? Assad had them for years as a deterrent to Israel's nukes. Of course, for you, chemical weapons are a great moral evil unless we're talking Israel. And while you'd shout to the rooftops about what a murderer Assad or Putin is if they used white phosphorus on civilians, any criticism of the Israelis for doing the same is just "anti-Semitic," right? Which is another way of saying Israel can do no wrong - even when murdering children sleeping in their beds.
Israel feels free to violate its neighbor's air space at will, bomb things at will, all while claiming it is acting in its own defense, when really, it is acting to reduce the capability of other nations to defend themselves from Israel. And Israel can count on thoughtless shills like you to misrepresent just who is violating ceasefires in Gaza. Why, catching Israel violating a ceasefire and bombing civilian infrastructure.... just "anti-semitism."
Syria was stable and relatively thriving under the younger Assad. Certainly not a bastion of freedom, but then neither is Saudi Arabia or China. The reason why it is a "shit show" is because Saudi Arabia, the US and a couple of other agents have helped flood the country with terrorist extremists who have murdered and tortured religious minorities. Israel has certainly been a part of this - offering claims about "wanting stability" a transparent lie given past policy papers and its own repeated efforts to destabilize the region.
If Putin is a thug, what is the USraeli juggernaut? Which side has killed more civilians in the past 10, or 20 years? Which side has been encircling the other with bases? Which side has invaded other countries based on abject lies for economic and ideological purposes?
Your assessments are cartoonish because you do what all hacks do - you paint a picture of Russia divorced from the rest of the world, strangely blind to the crimes of other actors.. Putin came to power in a deeply corrupt state in which a handful of oligarchs stole much of Russia's wealth - and he largely reversed this. Make no mistake, these oligarchs were gangsters, and sometimes it takes a gangster to fight gangsters. Russia and the Russians are much better of for it - there is simply no question about that.
Your sophomoric assessment of who did what diplomatically aside {an assessment too inane to have come from anyone who has even a modicum of relevant knowledge}, were it not for Putin sending ships and signals, NATO would have invaded, or imposed a no fly zone, and the foreign terror mercenaries would be murdering even more people, and likely heading into Lebanon. Were it not for Putin the globalist, neofascist regime installed by mob violence in Kiev would be moving into Crimea to murder protesters.
Those who live by the sword, it is said, will die by it.
Putin has acted mainly as a shield, while the United States and Israel have been killing lots and lots of people with their swords for a very long time. Terror states which use the fight against the very terror they fund to sham-justify their murderous, and essentially racist, megalomania.
You are on the side of state-funded terror, shameless hypocrisy, ethnic cleansing, and global empire. Your assessments are dishonest, pernicious, and not reasonably calculated to get at the truth. They certainly don't evidence the mind of a person who is against war, or objects to the diplomacy of brigands.
You are, on the contrary, a warmonger, full of hate for those who oppose warmongering, and an idiotic advocate of peace through bombing. While I did not think it possible to have less respect for you as a thinker, or as a man, you keep managing to find new ways to demonstrate your callousness, your intellectual cravenness, and your revolting, pro-war, pro-death hypocrisy.
Johnny CockInTheAss,
stilll spewing filth like the bag of shit that you are...
Johnny, one last time:
How many Jews died in the Holocaust?
Yeah, we know you won't answer...
---------------------------------------
And here is why:
Johnny will claim that the Holocaust was greatly overstated by millions in a backhanded attempt to minimize the significance while not even being aware that the basis of his claim has little to do with any "official" figures. Nor did it ever...
He grotesquely twists this article:
and then tries to further suggest that similar to the Nazi's having Katyn Forest wrongly pinned on them for 60 years, the "official" numbers at Auschwitz were also wrongly inflated. Furthermore he accuses the Jews of being primarily responsible for the Katyn in a not so subtle attempt to belittle what occured at Auschwitz...(see full direct quotes below)
The thing is that the Tribune Article refers to a memorial plaque at the site which has never been utilized in any "official" estimation of the death toll. He fails to mention that. And the Katyn Massacre involved is ~1% of the 2 million he would have you sweep under the table...
So this either makes him a lazy fool for not learning what the article really signified, or it makes him calculating liar...
Normally, I wouldn't get too excited about this, but for this:
Johnny, you are clearly a Jew Hating anti-semite of the highest order. There are lots of close minded hateful pricks around and if that is how you want to be, that is your choice...
But when you start casting doubt on the extent of the Holocaust in a very calculating manner, then it becomes more than than being a simple ignorant bigot, that makes you all but an accomplice in one of the worst crimes against humanity ever committed.
And that makes you a despicable piece of shit...
Maybe Tyler will can your ass, maybe he won't. Not my call...
Just remember I'll will be watching you and you had better not slip up in the least fucking way,...
I've gotten pieces of shit like you flushed from here before...
Don't even bother replying to anything I ever post again...
=====================================
For the record, Here are the exhibits, straight from JCB:
JohnnyCocknBalls wrote:
Quote from here
----
JohnnyCocknBalls also wrote:
Quote from here
==============
From the Wiki Auschwitz article ; the Piper study is the one cited in the Tribune article:
You see Johnny CockIntheAss, when you aren't lost in lies and projecting hate, it is easy to discuss the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. Using the Piper study figure of ~1 million, one arrives at a total of ~3.8 million total for the death camps and another ~2 million by other means resulting in slightly less than 6 millions Jews being murdered.
-----------------
Finally, your above "analysis" makes Mein Kampf seem coherent and logical....
LOL.
The whole point was you refused to provide an answer to the question - given the fact there were massive revisions to major aspects of World War II, you can claim not only that 6 million Jews were killed [the consensus amongst scholars is closer to 5, and as I said to Ghordius, which you left out, I allowd that it may be close to this figure] but that
1] it can not be questioned because it is absolutely settled; AND
2] any exploration, questioning, or expressed doubt about this number is not only invalid, but can only be "hate" AND
3] this is the only alleged fact of history to which 2 applies.
You missed the whole point. I never, nowhere claimed that the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis was some #X, nor did I make any claim that it was a small number. What I claimed was the death toll of the Nazi Holocaust [which did not kill only Jews] was inflated [by the Soviets and the Allies] for political purposes, to villify a defeated enemy.
For years, people claimed that it wasn't the Nazis who killed the Polish officers and intelligentsia at Katyn. And for years, fucking pussies like you would, not having studied the matter at all...
let me repeat that
NOT HAVING STUDIED THE MATTER AT ALL - would shout 'nazi nazi hitler hitler hate hate antisemite antisemite' at them.
But that Massacre, which for decades appeared in text books as having been yet another atrocity was a LIE.
The death toll at Auschwitz was reduced down because, somehow, after decades, 2 million people who were claimed to have been sent to the gas chambers apparently never existed.
Hence the whole thread, you stupid fuck, was to get you to explain why people like you get to claim that some aspect of history is off limits. Why doubt is a crime. As I've noted, you are a stupid, predictable man.... to you, anyone who argues that people should be free to question what there are laws against questioning means they think Hitler was great and the death camps were spas.
But "6 million" is a lot higher than 5.2 million. And to suddenly decide 2 million Poles never existed, or that it was in fact one of the Allies that massacred people... all facts which previously one could not question without people like you shrieking and shouting that you can not doubt these things is really evidence, for people who have studied a lot of history [me - and not you, quite obviously] that there was a concerted effort to smear the defeated. Propaganda posing as history.
You are the sort of person who would burn books and jail people for speech - but only in certain cases.
I'm here to disagree, loudly, and unambiguously, with your stupidity, arrogance, and hypocrisy.
the whole point was to demonstrate the sheer, moralizing thoughtlessness of your position. Not once did you provide evidence of a "6 million" toll [and again, the consensus is a far lower 5.2 million, so I wanted to see why you also were arguing a non-consensus position].
You also never provided any evidence as to why, for example, I can question the numbers and the facts in the Armenian genocide or the Holdomor, etc. etc. etc. and won't face jail time, and won't be called named by fatheads like you, but that this validly applies to one single item of history.
The point was to show that you shout "antisemite" at people with no logical basis for doing so. You ascribe to people positions they did not actually take because of your expectation bias, and binary thinking.
My position was simply that people should be free to question ANYTHING that is presented as settled history, even with regard to Wor;d War 2. Just as people should be free to doubt human caused climjate change.
But you couldnt address any of that, because you are absolutely blinded by hatred when people present ideas which are too nuanced for you to understand. You assume the worst about people who maintain doubts - but only about certain things.
But you never, ever provided a single argument supporting your claim - which is that "only antisemites could question that the nazis murdered 6 million jews. You were repeatedly asked to provide evidence and/or some kind of argument to support this claim.
You utterly failed to do anything but cry, shout antisemite, and make threats.
Once again, not only did I "win" - you lost even more than I anticipated you would.
As for your threats [and clearly the Tylers can do as they wish, and their leeway for free speech is commendable but must have its limits]
Just remember I'll will be watching you and you had better not slip up in the least fucking way,...
You are free to "police" and troll my comments as you like. You're also free to shout "antisemite" when people dare ask why you can be so sure about what you claim to be so sure about, or why it is a crime to doubt X but not Y.
Just the same, maybe you ought to assume less and think more. You mostly were shadow boxing. You were mostly having an argument with yourself. This was the point. You were ascribing to me beliefs and feelings I simply do not have.... but I knew you would leap on what are logically very valid positions, and I wondered if you might begin to see the game I was playing with you. At any time, you could have responded and discussed why, in a simple sense, while many things were propaganda, and while historical 'facts' are revised, or looked at differently, all the time, why you could not only be absolutely certain about a particular item, but you could also be certain that the only possible reason people could have doubts, or even just entertain alternative theories is "hate"
If I question the Armenian genocide, the numbers or mechanics, it is not hate - or the number of Poles killed by the Soviets, or the Nazis, it is not hate... only the sacred number of 6 million {for which there is no support! the consensus is lower by about as many Palstinians evicted from their homes by European Jews in 1947-48!} can only be treated by skepticism by racists.
It is the absurd position of a half-wit who confuses appearing moral and thoughtful with actually being so.
I'm sorry you were unable to look beyond your own biases to the more interesting philosophical and historiographical arguments. But your venom suggests, strongly, that deep down, you know that you are a phony.
And you keep chosing to be a whiny, dumb cunt about it.
. (just so you can't revise things)
why on earth would I revise a thing?
LOL. you still don't get it.
Now, tell me how your next move goes.
;o]
Furthermore he accuses the Jews of being primarily responsible for the Katyn in a not so subtle attempt to belittle what occured at Auschwitz.
Not only did I never claim this, it doesn't make any sense on its face.
Here, I don't think this is a case of your being too obtuse to understand a point, and think it an effort to simply lie.
Katyn was mentioned precisely because it was not only settled history that was wrong, but there was always evidence that the opposite was true.
And the point is, it was propaganda, lies, that passed into history. And people like you would have likely jailed people for wanting to get to the bottom of it.
Clearly the Soviets were responsible. In fact, Stalin and Molotov ordered it. Neither Jewish. The NKVD carried it out. A lot of them were. Those are the facts.
The death toll from Auschwitz was reduced by millions. All Poles, ostensibly. I never said the death toll of Jewish murder victims was reduced by millions. Never. Because that is not what happened.
You were led into this trap. Expectancy bias. One of the things I had hoped you would grasp but you are too stupid to do so.
No, the point is, this too was settled history for years. And people like you would claim anyone disputing it {even just as to the Polish deaths} were "Nazis". But they weren't. They were right.
That's a change of 2 million who died in the Nazi Holocaust.
NB: "Holocaust" does not refer exclusively to Jewish victims.
-- The point was, given that, from the same war, there have been such stark and remarkable revisions to what was previously regarded as historical fact, and further, given that most scholars put the Jewish death toll at around 5.2 million, what is the basis of your claim that of all the events in history, only the death of "six million jews" not only can not be disputed at all, but that the only basis for dispute, or skepticism, is "racism".
You made this claim over and over without a shred of argumentation.
Now go whine to the admin again because you were too stupid to grasp the argument.
I had previously indicated there are valid reasons to doubt anthropogenic global warming or climate change. I nowhere said it definitely wasn't happening but indicated that it is absurd to claim the matter is absolutely settled or that people should be called names or harassed for honestly expressing doubts.
But for people like yourself, if you express doubt, or even just openness to hearing other arguments, this means you are a "denier".
I think you're a fucking fascist pal. A person who would burn books and jail people for speech if given the chance.
Now, go fuck yourself, you craven cunt.
You proved everything I thought about you.
Keep spinning you cocksucker...
Flak,
You are trying to lay out a narrative that does not even remotely comform to reality. That is absolutely not how it went down, and I think you are intelligent and informed enough to know this.
The conclusions one can draw from that are not pretty...
Intelligence alone is not enough. It takes character, honesty, compassion, and love.
Fascists not only lack all of the above, they consider them to be weaknesses.
Sounds just like fucking Ayn Rand...
What else you got for us?
Allright, I finished with that piece of shit JohnnyCockInTheAss above, what you do you want:
Do you want to tell us your version of reality and explain precisely where I am wrong?
Or are you going to post a completely content free piece of shit like you just did....
I find myself pressed for time, so I think I will stick to my "content free piece of shit" post for now.
Why don't you put together a post explaining the "realities of Syria"... Go ahead, you have the floor...
Show us your grasp of geopolitics....
One needs an opposing Army to fight no? This look like OWS on steroids.
Looks like I am going to have to put my Russian Hockey Jersey in the attic storage, for awhile.
i'm so shaken by this mess...there is little doubt i'll be drinking again tonight.
fortunately, my eldest had massive brain surgury; so no draft for him...maybe i'll find some other way of 4Fing my middle son.
this shit is bad, guys.
sure, i'm somewhat jealous of putin...not that i'd want his doppleganger steering the USS amorica...but, gentlemen, you've got to understand -- putin is russian first (all the way and in every way).
and we've got a bunch of policy-wonks and think-tankers -- bringing only their pedigree (read: proto-commie bona fides) and overpriced degrees to the table -- who have absolutely no idea what they're doing.
these morons are whistlin past the graveyard. perhaps that 'pivot' east wasn't such a good idea, after all.
i'm worried sick...near panic.
probably just best to ignore what janus says over the next few days; as i reckon i'll be sowing the seeds of confusion, fear and caution.
the doom's day clock just flipped over another digit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo
the poundin of the drums/
the pride & disgrace,
janus
Don't get too worried at this point. This is mostly posturing and positioning. It's highly unlikely things will devolve directly into kinetic action. Russia can just pull the rug out from under the US in a number of ways (see my post below).
the pounding of the drums
What ??? Did CNN break out the drum again ? The one they used for Mid-East I, or was it II. Boom Buum Boom bummm booom bummmmmm War is so great. And colorful too. Where is my popcorn? /sarcI can just see Wolf Blitzer, wearing nothing but a loincloth, beating the oarstroke on the CNN War Drum in "The Situation Room." And now that "Jersey Shore" is off the air, "The Situation" should be available too.
Me too Janus. My youngest is only 4 and autistic so he's ok. My oldest is 12 now. Sorry to all you all with draft age kids but I just want to get the inevitable war over with. My oldest isn't fighting except on our soil. Otherwise we may be expatriating somewhere less warlike.
Peace
When does this opposing Army arrive and who might they be?
Oh no, two landing ships! They'd better fortify the beaches in Kiev!!! Oh, wait...
The Russian spy ship is, meh. As long as it stays out of US territorial waters and doesn't fire on anybody, it is just Putin poking Obama with a stick to get a reaction at worst, or business as usual at best.
The ships in the Black Sea, however...
putin to obambam-what are you going to do against a real military?
the ukraine is the bridge too far. what maniacal maniac convinced the west that the ukraine would willingly move to the west with the help of the cia? did they really think putin would allow it? without a real fight? what can the west do against a real military in that region? are they kidding that nato is capable of taking on putin? all of this makes the west look weaker than overcooked noodles. checkmate for putin again.
"You are my Bitch. Say it, Bath House!!"
"I...am...your Bitch."
"I am your bitch, Vlad!"
"I am your Bitch, Vlad, and don't stop!"
"Give me Crimea."
"It's yours!"
"Syria."
"Yours too. Oh yesssssss, I love being your bitch, you big Russian Stud!"
"Tell me how much you like your dog collar, Bitch."
"Oh, yesssss, I love my dog collar."
"What are the Amerikanski nuclear codes?"
"They won't give them to me, but I know how to turn them off."
"Then, next Friday at 0800 your time. Here is the cell phone number of my spy boat in Havana."
"Woof! Woof!"
I remember Reagan and Gorby preaching "Al Dente".
Things are going fast. The Crimean parliament sacked the regional government, appointed a pro-Russia guy and called for a referendum to be helt on May 25th: http://rt.com/news/ukraine-crimea-parliament-government-056/
It would be far easier for Putin to do a psyops against the US to much more conducive and desired effect by one or more of the following:
1) The Russians could tell the whole truth about fukushima radiation exposure hazards, and the real amount of danger off the US west coast.
2) The Russians could blow the lid off of the NATO stay-behind armies, and European false flag GLADIO operations against European citizens.
3) The Russians could blow the lid on the 9/11 attacks with proof from the Russian intelligence services.
4) The Russians could blow the lid on the gold and silver manipulation, markets, or just blow up the market.
5) The Russians could initiate the impending loss of confidence in the dollar.
6) The Russians could dump all the dirty laundry on US government leaders causing a loss of confidence in government
etc. etc. etc.
There's a million ways Putin could destabilize, neuter, or misdirect the US into a quagmire of ineffectiveness without using kinetic action. My question is: WHY HAVEN'T THEY? This bullshit is all a distraction until they do.
When a house of cards is 900 Meters tall, all it takes is a soft, sweet blowing of a kiss to bring it tumbling down.
Putin had written that letter to Americans and it was very good. He should write another letter where he tells Americans that he is a friend and sympathesizes because Obama is such a scum bag along with the Clintons and Bushes plus John Kerry and the other criminals.
Putin did not take my healthcare.
I can almost feel myself rooting for the ruskies in this thing considering the bunch of thugs running things on this end. Wonder what Valerie's next move will be.
the time for that has not come yet
Putin has many enemies within Russia itself (so called liberal wing which is getting directions from Washington), Putin powers are very limited by russian constitution (which americans have written for Yeltsin years ago) so referendum is needed to rewrite the constitution first etc etc
The Constitution means shit when you have the governing bodies under your control. Just do as you wish.
Need proof?.....Look at America and what has become of uours.
If we're right about what's going down in the world, with the US dollar and hence the whole Empire on the brink and with the Pivot to Asia being about deterring Beijing from blowing up the dollar, then every move the US makes in the world has to be seen in this context. Every one of the 6 actions Russia could take above could be taken as an act of war by the US, and hence their value would be mainly as deterrent.
Taking Ukraine is clearly part of the US long term strategy, formulated no doubt long before the current impending financial crisis came into focus, and the exact timing of the crisis in Ukrane may have its own dyamic, driven by actions of the Ukranians on the ground set into motion some time ago. Thus whatever one thinks of Putin, it's comforting that he has those deterrents, and reassuring that he's keeping that powder dry. Very reassuring that he has more than his armed forces - which our overlords may believe they can overcome at an acceptable cost in lost cities and population - to keep them sober.
btw, SgtShaftoe, very good question. Thanks.
Unlike a lot of people, I don't really see Putin doing a whole lot more than dropping the occasional log on the fire here. The neo-con strategy isn't anything new; incite violent chaos in as many countries as possible along Russia's borders, and divert whatever wealth can be extracted into the western banking vortex. Use proxies; Wahhibites where that's appropriate, and Ukraine offers some of the most bloodthirsty nationalists available anywhere, so use them.
Ukraine is, as US/NATO keep pointing out, a sovereign nation, so Putin just reinforces Russia's borders and legitimate interests, like Sevastopol, and shows enough teeth to discourage the Pravy Sektor types from taking a swing at them. The, he simply...waits. If "Yats" is actually capable of setting up a stable government, so much the better. Let "Yats" deal with Ukraine's broken economy, towering debt, and deeply fractured society. Putin isn't the one who let Pravy Sektor off the leash. If "Yats" and Tymoshenko can keep Pravy Sektor in line, fine.
On the other hand, if Pravy Sektor has truly been let loose, they'll do what they and their ilk always do, which is to be completely ungovernable and start butchering people. In that instance, Putin seals off the borders but prepares for an influx of Russophone refugees, whom he'll allow in but won't trust. No doubt there's something that needs doing out by Irkutsk, so he'll send them there with many watchful eyes. If Ukraine really turns into a charnel house, the slave harness the IMF wants to impose on them won't mean much, because there won't be enough of an economy for anyone to pay the taxes to pay off the note, unlike Ireland, Latvia and Greece which just knuckled under and impoverished their own people to placate the banksters.
Then there's the natural gas and oil Europe needs so desperately. If Ukraine doesn't get itself together and make some kind of nice with Russia, Russia can run all of that through Belarus, claiming Ukraine is too screwed up for the pipelines to be safe. And if Ukraine is a mess, with the fascists running around butchering people and the darlings of the Kissinger proteges who run US foreign policy prove as incompetent and naive as they usually do, the only attraction left for NATO is to possibly base a "missile defense" force there, pointing at Russia. Even NATO isn't crazy enough to put that stuff in the hands of the Banderists; hell, they'd be happy to nuke the Poles, or do who-knows-what. Remember, those guys outdid the Nazis in ferocity the last time Ukraine was inundated in blood.
I have no illusions about Putin. The guy has given me the creeps since I first heard of him. He's former (if there is such a thing) KGB, which should temper anyone's admiration of his forcefulness. Given a choice between being shackled to the EU/bankster oligarchy and Putin's Russian oligarchy, well, I'd have to think about that one for a while, and a lot would depend on my ethnicity, religion, and exactly where I lived and where I worked. Not a choice to envy.
But I doubt Putin will be stampeded by all the neo-cons' yelling and arm-waving. And I doubt he'll jeopardize Russian interests in Eastern Ukraine or the Crimean Peninsula. Once he's mended his defenses, he'll sit and wait for Ukraine to come to him. Then he'll very deliberately decide what to do next. Ukraine can't do anything to Russia. Russia has no pressing need to do anything to Ukraine. Time is on Putin's side, and not on "Yats'" side.
Refreshingly excellent. +100.
Agreed.
Also, take a look at this:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-kremlins-response-to-event...
It is a thoughtful and detailed analysis and shares some of the same conclusions.
Thanks, I'll check this link out.
I don't share the ZH man-crush on Putin, but I also am old enough to notice how every leader whose country is on top of our oil/gas/canal or happens to have had the Chinese build them expensive stuff recently is "Another Hitler," or "Crazy" or "Gassed/Starved/Generally Inconvenienced HIS OWN PEOPLE!" The namecalling catchphrases are so lazy it's insulting.
Of all the things Putin is, Crazy ain't one of them. Nor reckless, nor impulsive. Rather, I'd see him as deeply strategic, and utterly ruthless. That's why I think he won't do anything rash.
Actually, I don't think the US Kissinger acolytes who've run this country since...Kissinger...are as dumb or ignorant or crazy as we sometimes say on ZH. I think they too are utterly ruthless. Iraq is a smoldering hellhole? That's actually success. Nobody can rule Afghanistan? Another success. Same in Libya. The lethal stalemate in Syria works for them almost as well as having overthrown Assad. And turning Ukraine into a chamber of horrors suits them just fine too. The critical objective, as I mentioned above, is to create the most violent, intractible chaos in key parts of the world. That's why a certain small middle-eastern nation is so indispensable to US aims. That nation's government is guaranteed to maintain violent disorder and mayhem. That's why we'd goad Japan and the Philipines into confrontations with China. If it eats up other nation's resources, blood and treasure, and prevents them from defending their own autonomy at home or internationally, we're up for it. So while I don't think they're dumb or ignorant or crazy, I sure as hell think they're evil. And I don't delude myself by thinking they're acting in my best interest just because my passport is blue like theirs.
.
Understood. I harbor no illusions of his qualifications for sainthood, because he's a politician. Despite that handicap, I am somewhat envious of the Russian people because they have a head of state who acts like an adult. The politicians of Vichy DC are an embarrassment, a short bus squadron of trust fund babies and demented child kings.
The "killed his own people" cliché serves only to highlight the loathesome hypocricy of the Vichy DC regime. US support for murderous dictators and their death squads goes back many decades. Such conduct has never been a problem for the US government as long as the dictator knew to toe the line.
The problem with the Hitler du Jour routine is that, like the terrism bogeyman, it has become tired and lame because it has been used to describe every minor league threat that has come down the pike.
It is insulting, because it reveals the sneering contempt that the Vichy DC regime has for the American people. Say what you will about Putin, at least he had the decency and respect in his New York Times piece last year to address the American people as adults.
He also understands diplomacy (genuine diplomacy, not pantomime diplomacy as practiced by the US State Department). Like any successful diplomat, he operates with his own best interests in mind. His advantage over his American (and European) counterparts is that he knows it's not a zero sum game. Successful negotiations don't require the humiliation and submission of an opponent.
The US has lost many lives, an incalculable amount of money, and almost all respect over the last dozen or so years, mainly due to the insane, petulant, child criminals in charge. The support shown here for Putin may simply be the result of a frustrated longing for adult leadership.
OK so far, but what about the Black Sea coast and Odessa? Or the other Russophone provences? And what if the Ukrane rebel government is about to ally with NATO and let in NATO or US troops?
Moscow may want to sit tight, but events once set in motion have their own dynamics. The people of the Ukrane are in play. Putin will have some tough calls to make, soon.
It would be much more dangerous for the world if he were a wuss.
Well, if this expands past the borders of Ukraine, or threatens historically Russian enclaves in Ukraine, or opens the door to NATO, that's a whole 'nother deal. You're certainly right that "events once set in motion have their own dynamics." And then Putin would definitely need to respond, and I'm sure he would.
I was just saying that I don't think he has anything to gain from moving first. I hear a lot of speculation that he will make a big play soon or even now, and I don't see it until something major changes or develops. First I think he'll see if the new Ukrainian government can both take control and be negotiated with.
That's an interesting thought, that it would be much more dangerous if Putin were a wuss. I think you're probably right.
Bring it on, PUSSIES!!!!
"Slurp slurp, sl---"
"Why did you stop, Barrykins?"
"I gotta draw another red line, Reg."
"Well, you had me at the red line. Hurry back."
Here it is ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALS92big4TY
you betcha
from a purely neutral point : If American battleships can roam the world from the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Fukushima, why can't those of other nations do the same ?
Shit flies in all directions and Hegemony is a disease that debases all nation states.
No one is stopping anyone from sailing their battleships to wherever they please...
But, I do agree that we gotta move beyond this Empire phase if we are ever to make progress...
NOD vs. GDI
Hay thar, sofisticatet fellers in warshington:
The Fish Rots from the Head Down.
So, if anything is poor, besides We The People who you are stealing wealth from, it is YOUR dicktaster leadership that's POOR.
Put that in your Swift Boat, Kohn. With Ketchup.
Israeli advice on how to deal with Russian spy ship: fly around it for a few hours then attack with napalm, cannons, rockets and torpedos. Then claim you thought is was a al Qaeda horse carrier.
About 150 members of Crimea's Berkut security force were deployed Feb. 27 to the Perekop Isthmus to prevent Ukrainian troops from entering the peninsula, a law enforcement source said, Interfax-Ukraine reported. The isthmus connects Crimea with the rest of the country. Interfax-Ukraine added that it had not officially confirmed the statement.
Crimea is effectively sealed off from the neo-Nazi regime that took power in Kiev with EU/US support and encouragement, at least for now.
Do you mean the neo nazis Russians who invaded Poland with Hitler?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=it&v=2TdCwudcFRk&gl=IT
.
No, dumbass, there was nothing "neo" about that.
I suggest you hit the history books....
So you are telling us that it was "Russian Nazis" that invaded Poland in the wake of the Molotov-von Ribbentrop Pact???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6_SoSIp5Rg&feature=player_detailpage#t=38 :)
Two Russian warships
Enter Black Sea through Turkey
Head for Crimea
Haiku anyone?
Horsehead Heinz fucked up.
Is this your homework, Barry?
You see what happens?
That WAS your grandfather's Oldsmobile!
Yanukovich will declare that he is still the legitimate president and the new parliament is illegitimate
Crimea local parliament has already expressed support for Yanukovich
So we will see Crimea declaring autonomy within Ukraine for the time being (until presidential elections on May 25) and later on Georgia-Osetia scenario will be playing out some time in the future
Nothing but target practice tied up like that.
When the US sails a nice big Aircraft Carrier into the Black Sea we'll know if the US is not bluffing... Or perhaps looking for some vodka.. One of the two
"When the US sails a nice big Aircraft Carrier into the Black Sea we'll know if the US is not bluffing... Or perhaps looking for some vodka.. One of the two"
US sails a nice big Aircraft Carrier into the Black Sea?!
Do you think that the U.S. military leadership consists only of idiots?
Or do you hate the United States, and every night you have a dream about the death of a U.S. aircraft carrier, that was locked in a puddle?
Or you do not understand that Russia - is not Papua New Guinea, and that Russia may at any time, to destroy any U.S. aircraft carrier, faster than you can spit?
The two you deserve each other as you are clearly well matched in intellect and chest pounding ability...
Yes, big Thunbs up Flak
You could have just cited the Montreaux Convention...
... and if you wanted to be really snarky you could have pointed out that if 2 NATO powers effectively and in unison declare open war on Russia, the relatively small challenge of shooting a fish in a barrel might be dwarfed by the challenge of finding a non-irradiated port for the fish to return to in the very unlikely case it survives its experience in the barrel.
http://sam.baskent.edu.tr/belge/Montreux_ENG.pdf
Do You think that the reason America does anything is for it's People or Profits? I think the American Millitary is a Rentable Mercinary Force. I have no respect in the US atrocities. The CIA is a terrorist organization.
Agent Orange, Depleted Uranium, water boarding all things to wrap your Flag around yourself while you sing GOD BLESS AMERICA while your flag is Burnt by your down trodden. Bankers keep the American Population Poor to feed this neverending Onslaught.
What would Russia do with Ukraine? What would a country of 145 million do with a country of poverty stricken corrupt 45 million people that need to be invaded and overthrown. The Russians remember Libya, Iraq, Serbia and other countries the US and NATO have decimated. They are going to prevent this. Kerry's statement was just theatrics and posturing to show "the great empire in command". Putin was furious at what happened in Libya and was not going to allow it to happen in Syria. People on this board are influenced by nonsense American culture wrestling and Rocky movies. The last thing the Russians want is a Ukrainian civil war as it destabilizes their country. They want a political settlement and would only intervene if serious lives are at stake and I mean large numbers of people not a couple of dead demonstraters. Or if NATO got involved and bombed which ever side it did not favour. Name one country that is better off since NATO or the west got involved. Haiti, Afghanistan, Somalia the list goes on and on.